Video: LPNY chair Eric Sundwall challenges Wayne Root

Posted on the Tennesee LP website. H/T J.R. Enfield

55 thoughts on “Video: LPNY chair Eric Sundwall challenges Wayne Root

  1. BrianHoltz

    I’ll bet that at Wayne’s talk to the LNC I was the most hardcore atheist in the room, as documented at http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/brian_holtz/bio.html. I would have noticed if Wayne had “marginalized atheists” or said that atheists should not run for the LP nomination. He was asked about referencing “God” in the subtitle of his upcoming book, and he defended doing so. Keep in mind that atheists are already marginalized: polls show that voters are less ready for an atheist in the White House than they are for a woman, black, Jew, Catholic, evangelical Christian, Muslim, gay, or lesbian.

    I didn’t hear Wayne claim to be a successor to Ron Paul. What I heard him say is that he can appeal to Ron Paul voters. I tend to agree, although the overlap in natural constituencies is by no means complete.

    Wayne’s talk in San Diego was very persuasive, according to radicals like Gene Trosper and Debra Dedmon who went in skeptical. Wayne consistently has such an effect on audiences, and the LP needs to take advantage of that instead of taking it as a strike against him (as so many seem to).

  2. LibertarianGirl

    I like him more and more. If he sticks around with us the next 4 years , he will have Nevada’ full support at the Nat Con.
    additionally if he sticks around , I will have to admit I was wrong about his just being opportunistic in the beginning.
    I dont remember his marginalizing athiests , he did say it would be hard to elect an athiest given the fact 70-80% of people believe in a higher power.
    The thing I remember from San Diego clearly was his positively professional and un-asshole-like way he completely distanced himself from the train-wreck that was the Barr campaign . I got the distinct impression it was his whole reason for being there. Very smart and made me like him more:)

  3. Gene Trosper

    I agree with #2.

    Wayne was the last person I would have supported for the presidential nomination, but I came out of the San Diego LNC meeting impressed.

  4. Joe Buchman

    The LP in Utah recently invited Wayne to consider running as our US Senate candidate in 2010 — Wayne has a part-time home here in Park City.

    Ditto the above. More and more impressed with his efforts over time.

  5. TheOriginalAndy

    “I didn’t hear Wayne claim to be a successor to Ron Paul. What I heard him say is that he can appeal to Ron Paul voters. I tend to agree, although the overlap in natural constituencies is by no means complete.”

    If Wayne wants to get the Ron Paul supporters he’s got to distance himself from and repudiate the neo-cons.

    “Wayne’s talk in San Diego was very persuasive, according to radicals like Gene Trosper and Debra Dedmon who went in skeptical. Wayne consistently has such an effect on audiences, and the LP needs to take advantage of that instead of taking it as a strike against him (as so many seem to).”

    I did not vote for Wayne Root in Denver (I voted for Ruwart/Kubby to be the ticket), but I will say that Wayne was the best speaker there (not in content, but rather in delivery). \

    Wayne appears to be moving in a more hardcore Libertarian direction. I’d like to see him run for a state or local office in Nevada. I’d like to see what he does over the next 4 years and I’ll re-evaluate him in 2012 as to whether or not I’d support him for the Presidential ticket.

  6. LibertarianGirl

    Andy–If Wayne wants to get the Ron Paul supporters he’s got to distance himself from and repudiate the neo-cons.

    I believe hes doing that.

    Andy–but I will say that Wayne was the best speaker there (not in content, but rather in delivery). \

    his story and delivery of his dying mother speech was pure genius and made me cry .

  7. LibertarianGirl

    I agree , but the more I think about him and the LP the more convinced I become that we are making him more libertarian instead of him making us less so:)

  8. Robert Milnes

    LibertarianGirl, ironic that if I had found a libertarian girl to complement my ticket, I could have won in 2008. The only thing that matters in 2012 is whether or not a fusion ticket is assembled. & only one please. More than one will split the fusion ticket vote-pun intended. Ideally the lp will endorse the fusion ticket. If not their ticket will get ignored. The downticket candidates will get on the lib or green ballot & vote coordinated. Brian Holtz- you are letting the paleos get away with calling themselves reformers and/or identifying with the reform movement. I think you will find the real reformers on the other-left/progressive- side. Let’s try to learn from TR’s run in 1912; not get misled by dinosaur fossil RP/RP or a latter day used car salesman, ok?

  9. Eric Sundwall

    @1/ BH) “or said that atheists should not run for the LP nomination”

    ES) About 31:19 into the video he states, ” you can’t get elected in a country 95% religious by saying you’re an atheist” . . . or something really close. The implication is there , regardless if you were.

    @1/BH)” I didn’t hear Wayne claim to be a successor to Ron Paul.”

    ES) From 11-12 minutes he attempts to make the case for himself and the Ron Paul crowd. He says. ” we can win with the Ron Paul crowd and I just proved it”. Hardly true, and my own rhetoric is simply a device to counter the mantle/heir assumption.

    The atheist shot was weak, I’ll admit. But hardly the main point or incorrect.

    He’s been touting himself as Paul’s successor in numerous interviews and appearances.

    I meant to get this out differently, but an Ice Storm came . . . kudos to Paulie for the keen nose. Guess I’ll have to send Wayne the email now.

  10. Gene Trosper

    I believe Wayne is seeing the light and he seems willing to work with *everyone*, regardless of which faction they align with. That is encouraging to hear.

    Many of us joined the LP as rather weak libertarians. Over time, we gained a deeper understanding of the libertarian philosophy. Wayne seems to be one of them. Like others, I will keep my eye on him and constantly re-evaluate.

  11. Gene Trosper

    @13

    Wayne is correct in stating that it’s difficult at best to get elected if one is a known atheist. Most Americans have some sort of knee jerk reaction against people who don’t hold any sort of faith…and even then, one has to hold the “right” faith to even be considered.

    I read somewhere a few months ago that there are likely more atheists in congress and the statehouses than we realize, but those holding office either blatantly lied about their atheism or purposely kept silent, hoping to slip through undetected.

  12. darolew

    Well, this atheist isn’t particularly offended by what Root said. I mean, he’s essentially right… zero atheist Senators, and only one atheist Representative.

  13. Steven Druckenmiller

    bleh. Sundwall is doing nothing more than whining. Seriously, is it all that important if he isn’t convinced about Root in 2012 here in 2008?

    Why state that you’re already “not convinced” when the Convention is 2.5 years away?

    Whiner!

  14. Thomas M. Sipos

    Brian: “I didn’t hear Wayne claim to be a successor to Ron Paul. What I heard him say is that he can appeal to Ron Paul voters. I tend to agree, although the overlap in natural constituencies is by no means complete.”

    “by no means complete“? That’s a nice euphemism.

    The election is complete. The evidence of the election is that Root did not appeal to the vast majority of Paul voters. If indeed to any at all.

    But instead of admitting that Root (or Barr) failed to win Paul voters, you fantasize an ongoing process whereby Root continues to win over Paul voters.

    You offer no evidence, of course. Which is odd, since you love demanding evidence of other people for their claims and speculations.

  15. Thomas M. Sipos

    Libertarian Girl: “I was wrong about [Root] just being opportunistic in the beginning. … The thing I remember from San Diego clearly was his positively professional and un-asshole-like way he completely distanced himself from the train-wreck that was the Barr campaign . I got the distinct impression it was his whole reason for being there.”

    You don’t think it’s opportunistic to distance yourself from an obvious train wreck?

    1. Root was part of the Barr/Root team.

    2. Barr/Root was a train wreck.

    3. Root says: “It wasn’t my fault. It was the other guy.”

    That’s not opportunistic?

  16. Thomas M. Sipos

    The Original Andy: “If Wayne wants to get the Ron Paul supporters he’s got to distance himself from and repudiate the neo-cons. … Wayne appears to be moving in a more hardcore Libertarian direction.”

    Root claims to be more hardcore. I’d like to hear him denounce neocons — by their names, by their past lies, by their specific policies (as Karen Kwiatkowski does), and I’d like to see Root do it on Fox News.

  17. Steven Druckenmiller

    I’d like to hear him denounce neocons — by their names, by their past lies, by their specific policies

    This isn’t the “please Mr. Sipos” campaign.

    The evidence of the election is that Root did not appeal to the vast majority of Paul voters. If indeed to any at all.

    That’s because Ron Paul is a cult of personality. Ron Paul says “vote Chuck Baldwin!”…Ron Paul voters right in Ron Paul. Ron Paul says “don’t write me in!”…RP cultists write him in.

  18. JimDavidson

    @22 Ron Paul sought the Republican nomination in states requiring him to pledge not to run as an independent candidate. Ron pledged not to run as an independent candidate. Ron Paul enthusiasts put him on two state ballots anyway.

    If it were a cult of personality, his followers would religiously do what he tells them to do. They do not. He has essentially no control over his supporters. Which is kinda cool.

  19. JimDavidson

    @20 Train wreck? It was a mess. But, they got the third or fourth highest vote percentage, and the second highest vote total of any LP candidates thus far. One fewer electoral votes than the top electoral vote getter. -grin-

    It was nothing to justify all the compromises made to push the nomination to Barr. And their campaign produced none of the anticipated results – the five million votes, the percentages of the vote promised, the millions of dollars promised. I think LP members should be disappointed witht he results. But I don’t think “train wreck” is fair.

  20. langa

    So Root is claiming he can deliver the “Ron Paul Vote”, huh? Seems like I’ve heard something similar before. Oh yeah, this is the same guy who claimed he would deliver the “Poker Vote” and the “Homeschool Vote”, if I recall correctly. How did that work out?

    As for the RP vote, I can’t speak for all RP supporters, but there’s almost no chance that I’d ever vote for Root for any office.

    Of course, there’s still a lot of time between now and 2012, but at this point, I can’t think of a single nice thing to say about the guy.

  21. Robert Milnes

    Good Losers, continue to ignore or ostracize me & other libertarian/green, new upper left party, progressive alliance, fusion ticket types & you will continue to be Good Losers. pc/pc, you are one of us, whether you realize it or like it or not.

  22. paulie cannoli Post author

    zero atheist Senators, and only one atheist Representative.

    There are some more but they are on the down low.

    Convention is 2.5 years away?

    3.5 if you mean the prez. convention, unless there was a change I missed.

  23. LibertarianGirl

    You don’t think it’s opportunistic to distance yourself from an obvious train wreck?

    1. Root was part of the Barr/Root team.

    2. Barr/Root was a train wreck.

    3. Root says: “It wasn’t my fault. It was the other guy.”

    That’s not opportunistic?

    the bad working relationship between Wayne and the Barr campaign are well known . They did not work together and the Barr campaign marginalized Wayne in many ways .
    The trainwreck was almost entirely Barr’. and by Barr’ I mean Bob Barr , Shane Cory , Russ Verney etc

  24. Thomas M. Sipos

    Now you’re changing the subject, Libertarian Girl.

    The issue you’d previously raised was not “Was the train wreck Root’s fault?”, but rather, “Is it opportunistic of Root to distance himself from a train wreck?”

    Of course it’s opportunistic. He’s trying to make himself look good. That’s not opportunistic?

  25. LibertarianGirl

    opportunistic or smart , whatever.
    what i meant by saying i would be wrong if he stuck around is I was convinced he was only around for a season to enhance his own image , sell books whatever
    now it seems he may be in for the long ride , however it still remains to be seen:)

  26. LibertarianGirl

    Hmm. I think the problem was that many people in the party decided to attack their own candidate and do nothing

    LOL , I opposed Barr vehemently at Nat Con , Root too , neither got 1 vote from Nevada . I talk trash about Barr now because the campaign is over.

    during the campaign season , unlke some of my fellow radicals who took their ball and ran off to another playground , I worked as a member of the Nevada executive committee on the Barr campaign . I passed out literature , wrked booths and organized a fundraiser . I encouraged people to vote for him and I voted for him .
    know what your talking about before you speak silly:)

  27. Thomas M. Sipos

    Libertarian Girl: “what i meant by saying i would be wrong if he stuck around is I was convinced he was only around for a season to enhance his own image , sell books whatever
    now it seems he may be in for the long ride , however it still remains to be seen:)”

    What makes you think Root isn’t sticking around to enhance his own image, sell books, etc.? After all, he doesn’t have a radio or TV talk show sewn up just yet.

    He still needs his LP credentials to open doors for those TV talk show interviews, which may in time be leveraged into his own show.

    Oh, I always said he was in the LP to boost his career. And I still do.

    After all, his sports betting, informational, boiler room operation was bound to peter out: http://forum.sbrforum.com/players-talk/2303-i-worked-wayne-root-let-me-tell-you-about.html

    And also: http://therxforum.com/showthread.php?t=164179

  28. Libertarian Joseph

    I’d rather run as a libertarian-democrat than as a Libertarian. I think running as an independent would give me more votes lol. Ever notice how people that run LP never get anywhere? Jesse Ventura would have lost has he ran with the LP in Minnesota. It’s sad, but what can ya do? The socialists have cluster fucked the name.

  29. Libertarian Joseph

    What you need is either a moderate party or a radical party. A party that is undoubtedly for one thing: eliminating the state.

    or

    a party that wants to compromise and push libertarian issues once in office.

    you can’t have both!

  30. Libertarian Joseph

    I didn’t help Barr’s campaign at all. I’m not even a member. My political actions thus far:

    signing up as a democrat a few years back when they came to my house

    then, last year, I registered as a republican and voted for Ron Paul in the primaries

  31. TheOriginalAndy

    “LibertarianGirl // Dec 16, 2008 at 11:37 am

    Hmm. I think the problem was that many people in the party decided to attack their own candidate and do nothing”

    I don’t blindly support a candidate just because they have the Libertarian Party label next to their name, candidates have to earn my support. I gave Bob Barr a chance before the nomination and he failed to win my support at that point so I did not vote for him at the National Convention. I gave Barr a second chance after he won the nomination and once again, he failed to win me over. So I did not do anything to promote his campaign nor did I vote for him (I cast a write in vote for Ron Paul).

    Contrast this with 2004. I supported Aaron Russo for the nomination but when he lost I rallied behind Michael Badnarik. I donated $100 to Badnarik for President, handed out Badnarik for President flyers, posted links to Badnarik’s campaign website on a bunch of internet forums, put a Badnarik for President bumper sticker on my car, talked up Badnarik to people that I know (I got two family members to vote for him), and I voted for him.

    So for me not supporting Barr when he was the candidate was not just a case of sour grapes over my prefered candidate (Mary Ruwart) not getting the nomination at the National Convention, it was a case of the Barr campaign being like a sour grape.

  32. LibertarianGirl

    Hmm. I think the problem was that many people in the party decided to attack their own candidate and do nothing”

    Andy I didnt say that Libertarian Joseph did.

  33. Catholic Trotskyist

    Joseph, I thought you said you were only 18 when you first came here? How could you have run for Congress?

  34. BrianHoltz

    I wrote: “Root says he can appeal to Ron Paul voters. I tend to agree, although the overlap in natural constituencies is by no means complete”. Tom Sipos pops an aneurism over this because he reads “complete” in the temporal sense, rather than in the static sense of a Venn diagram. He then chides me for not offering “evidence” for an “ongoing process” that I “fantasize” about, when in fact I wasn’t writing about any “process” at all. ROTFL.

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