Kimberly Wilder’s good-bye message to the Green Party

Posted at On The Wilder Side. Reposted to IPR by Paulie. Kimberly Wilder has been a frequent source of Green Party news for IPR.



It is with some regret, and many mixed feelings that I am announcing my resignation from the Green Party.

Some of the background reasons are a shift in personal focus. Though, I also feel great tension in belonging to a political organization which has made some decisions I do not like, and a political organization which I feel is becoming less available to correction and input from individual members and/or grassroots ideas.

I had already resigned from the GPNYS/NY State Committee several months ago. With my current resignation from the party, I mean: I am resigning my post as a representative to the GP-US National Committee. I am resigning my position as Co-Chair of the GP-US Diversity Committee, and that, next week, I will unenroll “Green Party” via the Board of Elections. I will re-enroll “blank” (a term in New York which is similar to terms in other states such as “unaligned”, “independent”, or “no party.”) I totally reject the two party duopoly, so I would never consider joining the Democratic Party nor the Republican Party. And, at this time, I have not found a party that meets my various criteria and high ideals, including being for non-violence, against any war, and allowing for abundant and fair input from membership.

I value my time in the Green Party. I will still think of the four pillars as a personal mantra: non-violence; grassroots democracy; social and economic justice; ecological wisdom. I have learned a lot from many wonderful, wise people, in the state and national party, some of whom are still in the party, but many of whom have left.

I still have complete faith and respect for my local, the Green Party of Suffolk. And, it is because of their good work and my friends there, that I have the most regrets for leaving the party. I suppose having given so much of myself to the other levels, I can’t feel as separate from the state/national internal bureaucracy shenanigans and mistakes as other greens can.

Many of my friends and family members will remain in the Green Party. And, I will remain a publisher/contributor of “Onthewilderside” website, where my co-blogger is a loyal Green Party member and enrollee. My focus in my writing and in my activism will be more with non-partisan efforts at peace, anti-nuclear issues, and dismantling racism. I will continue to explore themes of ballot access and support for third party and independent ideals. (Though, I am feeling pretty fed up with politics.)

Thank you for all your support of my Green Party efforts in the past. I hope that many of my green friends and colleagues will find other, mutual areas of interest to share with me.

And, may the Green Party –but, more importantly, the green movement – grow, reflect, evolve and prosper.

Thank you,
Kimberly Wilder
North Babylon, Long Island, New York

49 thoughts on “Kimberly Wilder’s good-bye message to the Green Party

  1. Kimberly Wilder

    Thanks for the comment and interest, Trent.

    I am definitely not joining anyone.

    I am finding myself, my own voice, and the integrity of my personal political message again, after years of struggling to “organize” with others.

    My husband and I first came in to the party through Nader. And, I respect the man very much. Though, my political trajectory has been much different than to be a Naderite.

    I would say that there are several different directions that greens have scattered to.

    For now, I want to float somewhat outside of political circles.

    I find not just the greens, but all the little political and quasi-political groups I have watched – civics, leftists, Rotary Clubs, spiritual circles, poetry clubs, etc. – become ever smaller, powerless, incestuous social circles which often evolve into being a sick, sad comedy of manners.

    Maybe that is human nature.

    But, I fear that someone has designed it that way…

    I think becoming a powerless comedy of manners is human nature inside a culture where the government is winning, free thought is suppressed, and we all grovel in our privilege, consumerism and ignorance, while our tax money is used to fund oversea wars or empire.

    I think we act like the courtesans circling around the King because we have no power except through him. I think this state of affairs is what it looked like before the fall of Rome…

    Gee…yeah…maybe I need a break from politics.

    😉

  2. libertariangirl

    they sure do , in my experience with the Nevada LP , Ive seen more than a few energetic , full-of-ideas , activists work sooooo hard with their hope and optimism only to be badly burnt out a few years later. constant losing and doors closing and unfair tactics and little progress definately take their toll on us.

  3. paulie cannoli Post author

    I think becoming a powerless comedy of manners is human nature inside a culture where the government is winning, free thought is suppressed, and we all grovel in our privilege, consumerism and ignorance, while our tax money is used to fund oversea wars or empire.

    I feel the same way. Yet for every bit of despair I feel a little bit of hope at something else. Little things mostly. I find it better for my own sanity, such as it is, to focus on the hope more than the despair. But, I do have to admit the abyss is scary, and I don’t like looking at what seems like a bottomless hole.

    Some reasons to both hope and fear:

    http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=memelist.html?m=1%23711

  4. Gene Trosper

    Hope is something we need a lot of these days, and not that phony “hope” being bandied about by Obama and his Obamazombies.

    I can totally appreciate where Kimberly Wilder is coming from. I made that journey myself in the LP and it’s a really difficult thing to overcome. I have my moments where I get excited and energized about the LP again, but soon afterward, something or somebody comes along which quickly drain that excitement and energy.

    It’s a very strange thing.

  5. libertariangirl

    the harder they come , the harder they fall one and all!!!

    paulie you and i share a HUGE LOVE OF MUSIC!!!
    im gonna go listen to my jimmy cliff c’d hadnt thought of him in months!

  6. greg gerritt

    I have much experience in dealing with Kimberly Wilder. She is one of the most disruptive people I have ever met and she did much harm tot he Green party including preventing candidates from accessing their own campaign funds. Good riddance

  7. Trent Hill

    “Disruptive” is often the kind of people I like. Martin Luther King was “disruptive”, as were Ghandi, and Jesus. So until you have some specifics that you can prove, you’ve increased my appreciation of Ms. Wilder.

  8. Trent Hill

    I see that Greg Gerritt was, until recently, a leader in the GPUS–so now my appreciation for Wilder has grown even more. Party leaders need to be frustrated and kept on their toes, instead of continually placated.

  9. Kimberly Wilder

    Well, first I was in an elated and cheery mood. Loved the music, Paulie, and honored to have songs kind of “dedicated to me” in that way. (Or, dedicated to me and all people on the verge of political burnout.)

    Greg Gerritt crafts his words very carefully, and well he should. Note, Greg, that if you want to libel me, I have a lot of free time to sue.

    But, as to the way you portrayed it, yeah, when I was the treasurer for a statewide political campaign, I did ask for written statements and/or receipts before I would hand out money. Some people did not understand that. Not everyone understands the importance of the roles they take on.

    If anyone wants to see the flip side – how other people in New York irresponsibly handled money in the 2oo6 campaign season- please do some Freedom of Informations at the NY State Board of Elections. There are many political lessons there.

    Thanks everyone else for the kind words here.

    Peace,
    Kimberly Wilder

  10. Marakay Rogers

    To quote Dorothy Day, “Our problems stem from our acceptance of this filthy, rotten system.” Alas, that can apply to the conduct of political parties as well as the conduct of government.

    Bless you, Kim, for following your gut, as I did, to walk out on the filthy, rotten Green system.

    And considering Greg’s recent actions vis a vis the party, he’s got no room to comment.

  11. Michael Cavlan

    Marakay and Kimberley

    Bless you both. The Green party has people like Greg Gerritt and others as so called leaders.

    It is because of this that I left also. As have legions of others. Sadly, Gerritt and his cohorts are killing the party.

    Fortunately, we dissenters are not going away. We are still very active and organizing.

    Just not as Greens..

  12. Bryan

    Kim, I hate to see you get out of the political side, even though I often disagreed with your stance, I respected your input.

    The Green Party is dying. The 2008 candidate took the party in a direction many were not in support of, conspiracy theories and her embrace of the socialist endorsements she received… turned me off.

    The Green Nader supporters may not return this time, as the party lived through/defended McKinney’s “truth movement”, and the 5000 dead bodies floating around Louisiana.

    As a candidate last year, I spent the last few months of my campaign distancing myself from the national party…and honestly, since November, I have seen almost nothing positive about where the party is or where it is going…

  13. Les Evenchick

    I comunicated directly with Kimberly recently concerning support for the Malik Rahim campaign. She did a first class job of generating publicity and support for the campaign from greens outside of Louisiana

    I also found her political insight to be valuable and the video work of her and her husband has been excellent and very supportive of the recent McKinney campaign for president.

    I suspect Greg’s hostility is based mostly on 2nd hand reports.

    I respect greg’s organizing abilities but he has a tendency to occassionally make bad political judgements.

    I too have been called a disruptor when i raise criticisms of greens who routinely ignore green principles and bylaws in the GPUS.

    I have even been called a saboteur by one of the GPUS steering Committee members simply because I posted a lot of messages all within the list rules.

    I wish Kimberly had not quit the Green Party US .

  14. Trent Hill

    “The Green Party is dying. The 2008 candidate took the party in a direction many were not in support of, conspiracy theories and her embrace of the socialist endorsements she received… turned me off.”

    This strikes me as true–but it isnt neccesarily just because of McKinney’s campaign. Her campaign WAS terrible, but so was Cobb’s in 2004. Nader’s supporters have always made up the majority of Green support–and I suspect most of them will follow Nader wherever he goes. I suspect most Nader followers will migrate into alternative parties.
    In California, Utah, and Iowa–they seem to be moving into the Peace and Freedom Party.
    In Michigan, i’d expect they’d move into the Natural Law Party
    In New Mexico and Hawaii, he created the Independent Party.
    In Florida, he picked the Ecology Party
    In Oregon, he had the Peace Party
    In New York, the Populist Party

    In other states, I suspect they’ll get into the Green Parties or local leftist parties. I’ve always thought that an alliance between Nader, The Peace and Freedom Party, and the Progressive Party of Vermont would be extremely powerful.

  15. Trent Hill

    If I were Nader, I’d join with Howard Zinn, Cindy Sheehan, and all the other prominent progressives and make a deal with the Vermont Progressive Party and the Peace and Freedom Party–with Matt Gonzales as a serious figurehead for the party. Greens and outright socialists would be sympathetic to him, too. It would likely destroy the Green Party–but it’d create an INCREDIBLY strong Broad Leftwing Party.

  16. paulie cannoli Post author

    Trent @ 23 …that makes sense, actually.

    I’ve heard that there was going to be an effort to organize the Peace and Freedom Party nationally, but I haven’t heard of anything actually happening yet. If they can get all the people you mentioned to work together, they could get a lot done.

    Moving away from my journalistic and professional interests, towards my ideological side…

    I don’t know if we could revive a libertarian wing in the P&F. The last one was purged out in 1974. It may be worth a try if they go national.

    Also, I’d really like to have a party that works towards Green goals through libertarian means.

    See

    http://aaeblog.com/2006/11/24/greensleeves-was-all-my-joy/

  17. Kimberly Wilder

    Contrary to someone’s message far above which goes off on a tangent, I did not leave Cynthia McKinney, only the Green Party.

    I think Cynthia McKinney’s campaign was great (if not excellent) and she was a wonderful candidate, considering the problems she found in our party.

    The 5,000 bodies thing is actually an example of her greatness, and not a problem. Cynthia was a government official, and as such, received rumors she knew had some truth and resonance. She helped the world by letting out what she knew with questions. And, that helped to the discovery – after the campaign – of the actual truth about the dead bodies story in New Orleans. Cynthia boldly and bravely asked questions. That led people to the revelation about white vigilantes who killed black people after Katrina. Yes, the truth is so bizarre, that people who speak it can often be frightening. Kind of like Cassandra. And, both names start with a C.

    😉

    If Cynthia McKinney runs for office again, I will support her. I won’t be a party, I will be in her campaign. There is a tradition of people with enough of their own charm and prestige, having their own supporters, separate from a party. That is one thing that the Green Party (and even me) didn’t handle well with Cynthia last time around, when she tried to reach out to non-green constituencies to support her and her vision instead of the party which turned many people off.

    Thanks to all my friends who have posted here.

    Interesting conversations about where the green movement is and can go despite GP-US.

    I think that Les is too kind to Greg Gerritt. Greg is one of those people in the party that hurts more than he helps. And, for the sake of Greg’s victims, other people should hold him more accountable. We need much less “fake” purges and “fake” claims of disrupters like Greg has always done, and we need more people willing to rise up in truth and do at least the “Greek chorus” thing, noting when people are genuinely unfair.

    By the way, about Greg Gerritt, when he was still Secretary of the national party, there was a list of consultants. The list was made up by GP-US and given privately to state campaigns as a “resource” for them. On the list, there were boxes of specialities. Greg was noted as a consultant on “troublesome people.” Greg has always been at the center of trouble in our party.

    Now I see Greg has moved on to cause trouble in the world at large.

  18. Gene Trosper

    @24

    I think the Peace and Freedom Party is a lost cause for libertarians. However, the idea of attaining green goals through libertarian means is something I can support. It’s always vexed me why people who support peace and a sustainable way of living would sanction the inherent violence of the state to achieve their goals.

  19. Trent Hill

    “The 5,000 bodies thing is actually an example of her greatness, and not a problem. Cynthia was a government official, and as such, received rumors she knew had some truth and resonance. She helped the world by letting out what she knew with questions. And, that helped to the discovery – after the campaign – of the actual truth about the dead bodies story in New Orleans. Cynthia boldly and bravely asked questions. That led people to the revelation about white vigilantes who killed black people after Katrina. ”

    This is literally the most ridiculous thing i’ve ever read—even worse than the 9/11 Truth stuff.

  20. paulie cannoli Post author

    I think the Peace and Freedom Party is a lost cause for libertarians.

    I don’t know that any part is automatically a lost cause, whether it’s the LP, major parties, P&F, Greens, etc. I don’t think any of them have anything like this…

    the idea of attaining green/leftist goals through libertarian means

    They all fall into the dichotomy Roderick points out at

    http://mises.org/story/2099#6

    It’s always vexed me why people who support peace and a sustainable way of living would sanction the inherent violence of the state to achieve their goals.

    Me too. Likewise, it’s always vexed me why many people who ostensibly reject using the violence of the state to achieve their goals, even those who only reject if incompletely, feel that leftist/green goals are somehow in and of themselves incompatible with our views – separate from the means used to achieve them.
    I can’t count how many times I’ve been accused of being a socialist or communist by libertarians, even though I’m a free market/voluntaryist anarchist libertarian.

    Why? Because I think peace, social justice, a healthy environment, workers and consumers rights, etc., are important goals?

  21. Trent Hill

    “I don’t see anything ridiculous about it. Did you read the Nation piece?”

    Yes. I’ve also read the many mainstream articles on 9/11 Truth–some supportive. I even read some of the books on 9/11 Truth. In all cases, 9/11 Truth is debunked.
    The ridiculous part is that she claims 5000 people are dead or missing–and yet none of the families of these people have come forward? None have lodged complaints? What are these people’s names? Where is her evidence? Furthermore–contrary to popular superstition–a swamp could not hide 5000 bodies. We use our swamps, we live in them, we fish in them, we hunt in them, etc. 5000 bodies would be found.

  22. Catholic Trotskyist

    Ralph Nader sucks, Cynthia McKinney is a hero. if you’re going to complain about the Democrats being too right-wing and want to go to the left of them, go far, far left, as far as you possibly can. That’s why McKinney and the socialist parties are better than Nader for activism and consciousness change, and it makes it even better that they don’t get as many votes, so they don’t destroy the Obama Revolution, and at the same time, they can get a lot of street activism and such. The fact that the Green Party is dying just shows why a moderate left alternative to the Democrats won’t work, and, in fact, while socialists should work within the Democratic Party. It makes me laugh that the far left and the Greens are split into so many sections, if they end up with people like the oh-so-horrible Greg Gerritt as leaders, what should make us think that they would govern better than the Democrats?
    As for libertarians taking over the socialist parties, if some libertarians tried to split from the Libertarian Party, there could probably be enough members to infiltrate and inflict a hostile takeover on one of the socialist sect parties. The Party for Socialism and Liberation might be a good one. Since Paulie said that socialism is good if its voluntarist, and liberation could mean just about anything, the party name wouldn’t even have to be changed for that one once the takeover is successful.

  23. paulie cannoli Post author

    Yes. I’ve also read the many mainstream articles on 9/11 Truth–some supportive. I even read some of the books on 9/11 Truth. In all cases, 9/11 Truth is debunked.

    Hardly in all.

    The ridiculous part is that she claims 5000 people are dead or missing–and yet none of the families of these people have come forward? None have lodged complaints? What are these people’s names? Where is her evidence? Furthermore–contrary to popular superstition–a swamp could not hide 5000 bodies. We use our swamps, we live in them, we fish in them, we hunt in them, etc. 5000 bodies would be found.

    I think 5,000 is *probably* larger than the actual number. A lot of people are in fact dead or missing, and a lot of people and families displaced and lost touch with relatives, so unless there is an official record of exactly who is dead and who is missing, and unless all the families and relatives have cross-checked that list, there is no way to know if the actual number of dead is higher than what has been officially reported.

    The last time we looked at this in IPR comments, some people pointed to websites that were trying to match up all the names of missing people, but nothing conclusive was ever pointed out. I can dredge up that conversation if need be.

    Her evidence was detailed over the course of several posts and comment sections here.

    There have been several alternative theories as to body disposal, including burning, and the possibility that it took place on a cruise ship which was docked in the area in the aftermath of Katrina.

    So, there are a lot of unanswered questions, and I’m glad Ms. McKinney brought them up, even if 5,000 is a big exaggeration – and I don’t know for sure whether it is or not.

  24. paulie cannoli Post author

    Since Paulie said that socialism is good if its voluntarist,

    I think it’s OK, and an acceptable alternative, but I don’t necessarily advocate as the economic model people should voluntarily choose (or not choose). I’m for letting free people decide for themselves which economic model(s) they participate in, and to what extent.

    My guess is that there would be a range of ways people would choose to live, ranging from socialistically organized intentional communities, to worker-organized cooperatives competing in a marketplace against capitalistic firms for the patronage of people who live on their own in single-owner or single-family residences, to various forms of barter, and volunteer efforts ranging from neighborhood watches to charities to militias so forth.

    But, that’s only a guess.

    I wouldn’t want a party name that promotes a specific form of economic organization.

    Names of leftist parties which I would find compatible include Peace and Freedom and Green, even though I don’t support their current platforms.

    Natural Law, not necessarily a leftist name, is one I like as well. There’s still a shell of a party organization left in a few states, but not many.

    Reform is too nebulous for me.

    I still haven’t abandoned the Libertarians, even if they have shown signs of abandoning me by moving too far to the right.

  25. Trent Hill

    “I think 5,000 is *probably* larger than the actual number. A lot of people are in fact dead or missing, and a lot of people and families displaced and lost touch with relatives, so unless there is an official record of exactly who is dead and who is missing, and unless all the families and relatives have cross-checked that list, there is no way to know if the actual number of dead is higher than what has been officially reported. ”

    You dont know what she actually said,do you? She said the DoD shot 5000 black men in the HEAD. Not that they are missing or unaccounted for.

  26. paulie cannoli Post author

    You dont know what she actually said,do you? She said the DoD shot 5000 black men in the HEAD. Not that they are missing or unaccounted for.

    I know what she said. I posted it and discussed it in detail. See previous discussions here; you are just as capable of finding them as I am.

    When you say that family members would have come forward, it may well be that families have been told that their relatives are missing, or just that they lost touch, as many have, whereas in fact they are actually dead. Unless there is a master list of all missing persons – and again, last time I looked at it, I don’t remember anyone finding one – how would they know if the number of missing is accurate?

    I see you capitalized head. Is there a significance that I am missing to the location of the entry wounds, if this in fact happened?

    Also, you’ll notice that I am leaving open the possibility that something did happen, but not exactly as large or in the same details she put forth. There is lots of room between the possibility that everything happened exactly that way and that nothing at all happened and the story is a complete fabrication. The truth may very well be somewhere in the middle.

  27. Green Ferret

    Many have predicted the death of the Green Party, from Nader-hating Democrats to disgruntled Greens who didn’t get their way on the National Committee. Yet the Greens keep on truckin’, gaining momentum in some places, gathering moss in others.

    It seems to me that part of the problem is being too inward-focused. Our ratio of committee members to candidates is far too high.

    Much respect to the Greens who keep their heads down and keep working towards the society we envision. Peace and good luck to all.

  28. paulie cannoli Post author

    Many have predicted the death of the Green Party, from Nader-hating Democrats to disgruntled Greens who didn’t get their way on the National Committee. Yet the Greens keep on truckin’, gaining momentum in some places, gathering moss in others.

    It seems to me that part of the problem is being too inward-focused.

    All true of all the alternative parties, too.

  29. Trent Hill

    “When you say that family members would have come forward, it may well be that families have been told that their relatives are missing, or just that they lost touch, as many have, whereas in fact they are actually dead. ”

    There is no evidence upon which she can base her claim, though. 5000 people go “missing” after a massive, category 5, hurricane–and she claims they were all killed by the DoD? It isnt even reasonable. Furthermore, my original statement was aimed at the person who said “white militias” did the killing of these magically-unseen 5000 bodies in Louisiana Swamps. I was a white person who fought to go down to New Orleans, and becuz of that–I must’ve been shooting blacks in the head, right? Except, that I wasnt. I was bringing food and water, my own life at peril–and after that I was tagging bodies for the local police (using a fishing boat and GPS locater).

  30. Trent Hill

    “Many have predicted the death of the Green Party, from Nader-hating Democrats to disgruntled Greens who didn’t get their way on the National Committee. Yet the Greens keep on truckin’, gaining momentum in some places, gathering moss in others. ”

    McKinney and Cobb, back to back, have been horrible candidates. Nader WAS the Green Party, basically, and unless he rejoins the greens–they will simply languish away in obscurity and mediocrity, or die.
    I’d say the same of the CP, too.

    Although not the LP.

  31. paulie cannoli Post author

    Furthermore, my original statement was aimed at the person who said “white militias” did the killing of these magically-unseen 5000 bodies in Louisiana Swamps.

    You misunderstood that, then. White militias did kill some people, and no cases have yet been filed, as the Nation piece shows. 5000? Probably not, but that is a separate claim.

    Were some of those white militias working with police and national guard units? Did some police and national guard, Blackwater, or other mercs carry out separate killing campaigns? I don’t know.

    What Kimberly said is that McKinney and Rahim raising those questions is what led to the discovery – or at least more mainstream organizations – looking at neighborhood militias engaging in killings that have never been prosecuted yet.

  32. Green Ferret

    “Nader WAS the Green Party, basically, and unless he rejoins the greens–they will simply languish away in obscurity and mediocrity, or die.”

    Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with Green Party history. Greens are part of a worldwide movement that began in New Zealand in the 1970s. The Greens gained worldwide recognition in the 1980s, when they entered German parliament (and later formed a government with the Social Democrats). In the US, the Green Party was formed in 1984.
    Ralph Nader first ran with the Greens in 1996, and again in 2000. The Nader 2000 campaign is the extent of what most people know about the US Green Party. It was a blessing and a curse – a blessing because Nader attracted so many to the GP (myself included), a curse because Nader and the Greens have been blamed for all the numerous woes America suffered under Bush and company.
    So the Green Party has been a victim of its own success. Any third party that seriously challenges the corporate duopoly will deal with the same. But the Greens have not disappeared. Despite the odds against, the GP has elected a few hundred officials, none of whom was Ralph Nader.
    Many of us look at the current political climate – worsening environmental problems, the collapse of free-market fundamentalism, a corporate centrist Democratic regime and a GOP in flames – and see plenty of opportunities for state and local GPs that pull themselves together and run good candidates in winnable races.

  33. paulie cannoli Post author

    Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with Green Party history. Greens are part of a worldwide movement that began in New Zealand in the 1970s. The Greens gained worldwide recognition in the 1980s, when they entered German parliament (and later formed a government with the Social Democrats). In the US, the Green Party was formed in 1984.
    Ralph Nader first ran with the Greens in 1996, and again in 2000. The Nader 2000 campaign is the extent of what most people know about the US Green Party. It was a blessing and a curse – a blessing because Nader attracted so many to the GP (myself included), a curse because Nader and the Greens have been blamed for all the numerous woes America suffered under Bush and company.
    So the Green Party has been a victim of its own success. Any third party that seriously challenges the corporate duopoly will deal with the same. But the Greens have not disappeared. Despite the odds against, the GP has elected a few hundred officials, none of whom was Ralph Nader.
    Many of us look at the current political climate – worsening environmental problems, the collapse of free-market fundamentalism, a corporate centrist Democratic regime and a GOP in flames – and see plenty of opportunities for state and local GPs that pull themselves together and run good candidates in winnable races.

    Agreed with everyting that Green Ferret said except the term “free-market fundamentalism,” which is very far from what we have had.

    See

    http://mises.org/story/2099#6

    and the rest of

    http://mises.org/story/2099

    to see what I mean.

    You could just as easily have said that the “Kochtopus” was the LP in the late 70s/early 80s, or that the Browne/Bergland/Cloud “machine” was the LP in the mid-late 90s through 2002.

    They energized the LP for periods of time, just as Nader energized the Greens for a period of time.

    However, both the libertarian and green movements have existed before and after this, and are likely to continue to have US political parties – probably as long as there is a US and/or it continues to have multiparty elections.

    How big or effective those parties will be is a different issue.

  34. Kimberly Wilder

    Trent Hill said:

    <<Trent Hill // Feb 11, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    <<>>

    Trent, come on. How can people take you seriously if you make stuff up.

    Nader was NEVER, EVER a green. So, how could he “rejoin” the Greens? Nader was never registered or enrolled green. And, he never participated directly in our committees or party politics. Which, is pretty ironic for someone that tries to teach people about democracy. How can you have democracy if your own leaders and candidates won’t stoop to do some of the hard work with you?

  35. Trent Hill

    “Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with Green Party history. Greens are part of a worldwide movement that began in New Zealand in the 1970s. The Greens gained worldwide recognition in the 1980s, when they entered German parliament (and later formed a government with the Social Democrats). In the US, the Green Party was formed in 1984.”

    Im not unfamiliar at all with Green Party history. I am speaking of the US Green Party imparticular–and I DO know the foundations of both the national and international movement. Nevertheless, ask anyone on the street what party Nader is apart of–and they’ll answer Green. Ask anyone on the street to name a Green Party member, and they’ll say Nader. Nader got the Greens their best coverage, was their best candidate, was their best spokesman, scored the most votes, etc. Nader, for all intents and purposes, WAS the Green Party.

  36. Trent Hill

    “You could just as easily have said that the “Kochtopus” was the LP in the late 70s/early 80s, or that the Browne/Bergland/Cloud “machine” was the LP in the mid-late 90s through 2002. ”

    Not even a close comparison. Clark scored 1%, got virtually no media coverage compared to Nader, etc. In the early late 80s, if you asked someone about Ed Clark–they had no idea what party he belonged too–which is the opposite of Nader.

  37. Trent Hill

    “Trent, come on. How can people take you seriously if you make stuff up.”

    I do me best NOT to make stuff up–nor have i here in this thread.

    “Nader was NEVER, EVER a green. ”

    Im quite sure that you are right that he was never a Registered Green–but he was a Green nonetheless. You see–he was the Green Party’s presidential candidate. This is like saying Chuck Baldwin isn’t a Constitution Party member because he is a registered Independent. But he speaks at CP functions, donates to the CP, and ran as it’s presidential candidate–that makes him a CP member.

    “And, he never participated directly in our committees or party politics.”

    That is very careful wording. You used “directly” to mean that he never participated PERSONALLY in committees or party politics–but he must have, part of a party’s internal workings is to nominate a candidate, petition, sign papers, etc. Nader did all of that as a Green Party candidate.

  38. paulie cannoli Post author

    Nevertheless, ask anyone on the street what party Nader is apart of–and they’ll answer Green. Ask anyone on the street to name a Green Party member, and they’ll say Nader.

    Perhaps of people who venture a halfway intelligent guess at all. Try this for real with 100 randomly selected answerers on the street,

    And if you actually go through with it, welcome to my world. It will open your eyes in a different way.

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