Classically Liberal blog: ‘Fake libertarians propose alliance with conservatives’

Posted at http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2009/09/fake-libertarians-propose-alliance-with.html:

The con man from Vegas is still lurking around the shell of the Libertarian Party trying to promote a conservative agenda for the LP. Wayne Allen Root, a conservative, keeps promoting himself as the leading LP contender in the next election. The only evidence for that, to date, is his own fertile imagination where he constantly imagines himself as being what he is not.

Root wants the (formerly) Libertarian Party to officially become part of a conservative coalition “to take back America from Obama and his socialist agenda.” Really, only a moron thinks the problem is a socialist agenda. It isn’t. Sure Obama wants socialism. But the problem is a statist agenda, a desire to have Big Government. And the conservatives, who had power for much of the last 30 years, have NEVER pushed through smaller government.

Root wants a coalition of conservatives, who by definition are statists, to join the LP. How will the LP manage this? Clearly the only way to appeal to conservatives is to strip the last vestiges of libertarianism from the party. The LP, to a large extent, has become nothing more than a home for failed conservatives who haven’t a clue.

Root defines “moderate Republicans” as part of the problem. So apparently those Republicans who are not “moderate” are to be our coalition partners. Who exactly would that be, Mr. Root? Root promises that his right-wing book, the misnamed Conscience of a Libertarian, explains what issues the coalition will run on. Remember that book—the one that avoids the war on drugs but worries about gambling (because Root made his living conning gamblers into buying his “advice” on how to lose money more efficiently). His was the book that didn’t mention foreign policy at all.

Libertarianism, under the make-over from Root and the traitors who run the Party, is libertarianism stripped of its non-interventionist foreign policy and with civil liberties underplayed to such a large degree that it is a joke to pretend they are even there. Root wants a libertarianism that is just another version of the failed conservative policies that destroyed the Republican Party.

Roots new policy on immigration is one, which he says, will allow only “skilled upper middle class immigrants [well you can’t come out and say “whites only” anymore] with assets of $250,000 or more, to move to America—thereby ending our foreclosure crisis, housing crisis, and national debt crisis, all at one….”

Read the rest……

75 thoughts on “Classically Liberal blog: ‘Fake libertarians propose alliance with conservatives’

  1. Aroundtheblockafewtimes

    So is it Nolan vs. Root for the soul of the Party?
    Or are there third, fourth, fifth, etc. ways being advanced?

  2. Scott Lieberman

    Does the author of the above review, “CLS”, have a name, or is he or she so ashamed of their writing that they need to publish their rants anonymously?

  3. libertariangirl

    theres a picture of skunks and the title calling it LP leaders and Root .

    let me tell you if anything has driven me further away from a certain faction w/in the LP it is the immaturity , meanness , inflammatory rhetoric and absolute crap like the article above.

    whos the author, id like to know also

  4. Michael H. Wilson

    The inflammatory rhetoric comes from all directions. No one side is immune from using it.

  5. Thomas L. Knapp

    libertariangirl,

    You write: “if anything has driven me further away from a certain faction w/in the LP it is the immaturity , meanness , inflammatory rhetoric and absolute crap like the article above.”

    The author of the article is not a member of “a
    certain faction w/in the LP,” because he is not a member of the LP at all, as he makes clear in other entries on his blog.

  6. Mik Robertson

    I didn’t see very much that was accurate in the blurb. I certainly don’t see any point reading any more.

  7. Thomas L. Knapp

    lg,

    No, it’s not Jim Davidson.

    No, It’s not me, either.

    I’m not trying to be cryptic here — I’d tell you CLS’s name if I hadn’t long ago agreed, at his request, not to spread that information around. But it’s not hard to figure out who he is if you really want to know. The necessary information is all on his blog. Any movement old-timer would spit out his name in 10 seconds based on where he says he’s lived and what he says he’s done.

  8. libertariangirl

    im not an old timer , and I would never think such crap would come from you , much as you do t care for Root , I dont think your that nasty.

    he should publish his/her name…must be a chickenshit

  9. Becky

    Because of the deviations and sins of the Republican Party I do not really feel they are a second best alternative. And as Hyaek said whether I am a conservative or not depends on what you are talking about conserving.

    But, when you look honestly at the present breakdown of parties and ideologies it is inescapable that Ronald Reagan was right when he said that libertarianism is the heart of conservativism.

    There are, in general, more positions which libertarians agree on with self-identified conservatives than modern liberals. This means we will usually, but certainly by no means always, have more in common with conservatives than liberals.

    As a practical matter it is more common for a conservative to begin identifying themselves as a libertarian than a liberal doing the same–that is because there are basic assumptions in common that are anathema to modern liberals.

  10. d.eris

    “Ronald Reagan was right when he said that libertarianism is the heart of conservativism.” Maybe, but doesn’t that imply that Reagan’s conservatism was heartless then? I’ve never understood why anyone who considers him or herself a libertarian would support the Republican Party.

  11. wolfefan

    There is some irony in someone posting anonymously to this blog complaining about someone else posting anonymously to his/her own blog…

  12. Muskingum Libertarians

    Mr. Root is the only Libertarian speaking out. If the Libertarians ever want to be more than a third party, we need more people like him. He is trying to finally get the Libertarians that are still in the Republican party to finally leave it and see the Libertarian Party as a force in politics.

  13. Thomas L. Knapp

    “Mr. Root is the only Libertarian speaking out.”

    That claim is transparently false.

    Giving Wayne the benefit of the doubt and classing his political ideas as “libertarian” means giving equal benefit of the doubt to others with similar ideas who also call themselves libertarian.

    One of those others is Glenn Beck.

    Amazon.Com sales ranks today:

    Common Sense by Glenn Beck: 9th

    Conscience of a Libertarian, by Wayne Allyn Root: 20,086th

    In addition to describing himself as a libertarian and offering a political message quite similar to Root’s but much more loudly and effectively, Beck has given Libertarian Party candidates including Bob Barr and Root himself substantial airtime to make their case to America.

    This isn’t intended as a slam on Wayne. It’s just that this whole “Wayne is the only one doing X” idea is transparently bullshit.

  14. libertariangirl

    so now Glen Beck is Libertarian ? thats who you compare Wayne with , Glenn Beck? your serious , arent you?
    Glen Beck already has a syndicated t.v show and is a media good ole boy. to think that you use him as an example of who’s doing more for the LP is seriously funny.
    glenn beck, lol

    you just totally make muskinggums point

  15. George Phillies

    The actual issue here, as I said in Presidential debates, is that conservatism as it exists in the real American world has done something novel: It has invaded and conquered a new segment of the Nolan Chart–the one opposite ours — and left its own quadrant behind.

  16. Scott Lieberman

    “Steven R Linnabary // Sep 8, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    Anybody who thinks Glenn Beck is a Libertarian should watch this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6C6E6ayh4U

    Not to say that Beck isn’t good some of the time, but then so is Rachel Maddow. But neither is libertarian, we simply agree SOME of the time.”

    ***************************

    That video was posted five months ago. All of the video clips in it that show are from 2008.

    I admit I am a fan of Glenn Beck.

    Beck has become much more cynical about government in general during the past year.

    Beck is not an anarchist, but I am sure he is in the libertarian quadrant on the Nolan Chart.

  17. Mike

    Bah, as Sheldon Richman how much of a libertarian Beck is… he isn’t one at all.

    He spent years cheerleading for the Bush regime and now conveniently puts on the libertarian hat when it is unpopular to be both a Democrat AND a Bush Republican.

    Beck is a neo-con, a liar and a thug. He cares about Glenn Beck.

  18. Thomas L. Knapp

    LG,

    You write:

    “so now Glen Beck is Libertarian ? thats who you compare Wayne with , Glenn Beck? your serious, arent you?”

    I don’t know that I would say Glenn Beck is a libertarian.

    However, Glenn Beck says that Glenn Beck is a libertarian, and I’d be surprised if you could name a single issue on which Beck is noticeably less libertarian-leaning in his public pronouncements than Wayne Allyn Root is.

    If Wayne’s a libertarian, Glenn is too. I’m trying to compare apples to apples here.

  19. Thomas L. Knapp

    LG,

    You write:

    “and yes , 17 , it was intended as a slam on wayne , quit playin:)”

    Bullshit. When I slam Wayne, I don’t make any bones about it.

    Whether or not Glenn Beck is a libertarian is certainly debatable, but there’s no question that his publicly stated views on politics fall very close to Root’s publicly stated views on politics. That’s just a fact. If you think otherwise, show me statements from each that indicate disagreement.

    I’ve still not read Wayne’s whole book, so I can’t review it, but I’ve made some preliminary remarks here. Do you think those remarks are a “slam,” too?

  20. Michael H. Wilson

    I’ve got a Boston Celtic’s shirt and I know how to dribble a basketball. I can also shoot and make a basket.

    Now if I put that shirt on does that make me a member of the Boston Celtics?

  21. Gene Berkman

    Tom K @ #24 “I’m trying to compare apples to apples here.”

    I’ll say it since you didn’t – you are comparing rotten apples to rotten apples.

  22. libertariangirl

    i didnt say waynes beliefs dont come close to glens , but in your post you seem to be giving Beck as an example of someone who is also working hard for the lp i.e a reason why wayne isnt the only one doin what he’s doin. thats what i have a problem with.

  23. Thomas L. Knapp

    LG,

    You write:

    “i didnt say waynes beliefs dont come close to glens , but in your post you seem to be giving Beck as an example of someone who is also working hard for the lp”

    I have no problem with self-promotion, but using the LP for purposes of self-promotion and “working hard for the LP” are not necessarily the same thing.

  24. Thomas L. Knapp

    LG,

    You write:

    “Wayne is ALOT more libertarian and Libertarian than Beck.”

    If he’s ALOT more libertarian/Libertarian, it shouldn’t be too difficult to prove that, should it? Name some issues where Root is “more libertarian” than Beck.

    I’m sure that Root positively mentions the Libertarian Party more often than Beck does.

    BUT!

    Beck isn’t running for the LP’s presidential nomination, Root is. It’s only natural that he’d mention the LP more often.

    Thing is, every time I see Wayne on the tube or hear him on the radio, his mentions of the LP fall into one of two areas:

    – “I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO great — you have to believe that, because the LP nominated me for VP in 2008 and I’ve proclaimed myself their front-runner for president in 2012.”

    – “This multi-level marketing scam I’m trying to sell you is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO great — you have to believe that, because the LP’s 2008 vice-presidential candidate and self-proclaimed 2012 presidential front-runner is telling you so.”

    That’s not promoting the LP, that’s using the LP to promote Root and Root’s schemes.

  25. libertariangirl

    TK_I have no problem with self-promotion, but using the LP for purposes of self-promotion and “working hard for the LP” are not necessarily the same thing.

    me_ they aren’t mutually exclusive either

  26. John C Jackson

    A lot of the mean and inflammatory stuff comes from Root. He has gone out of his way to associate with certain bigots, make use of a lot of “conservative” racial rhetoric, etc.

  27. Thomas L. Knapp

    libertariangirl,

    I agree — self-promotion and “working hard for the LP” are NOT mutually exclusive. As a matter of fact, any good candidate will do both. He’ll promote himself AND the LP to the public, and he’ll use his promotion of the LP to promote himself WITHIN the LP.

    So now we’re up to questions:

    – How and in what way is Root “more libertarian/Libertarian” than Beck? You’re the one who insists that he is. Prove it. Show me any major issue where Root is substantially more libertarian than Beck.

    – How and in what way does Root “work hard for the LP?” How does “buy CarbonCopyPro because I say I’m the LP’s 2012 presidential front-runner” or “Son of a Butcher! Campaigned for Barry Goldwater in my father’s arms! Used to call myself a mogul but after driving the corporation I CEOed into the ground and leaving its stockholders high and dry, I call myself a small businessman now! And the LP is just EATING THAT SHIT UP!” benefit or promote the LP?”

  28. libertariangirl

    Bullshit!!! I have NEVER heard Wayne say anything mean! thats a primary reason I grew to respect him .

    I have heard a ton of people lodge lies , names ,accusations , in a mean spirited way . lesser men , including myself would have gone off on curse filled tirades and all out verbal war in defense of some of that garbage.

    I have never seen him do this in public or in private conversations . He remains respectful and courteous to people at all times.

    I have never heard him be mean , online , in person or in any media interview.

    could you please list the examples you speak of.

  29. John C Jackson

    As far as Glen Beck, he has a book that can actually be found in Barnes and Noble and in the top new releases and non-fiction best-sellers sections. From the book jacket it appears as libertarian as Root’s. I am not saying Beck is a libertarian, but when it comes to “conservative/libertarian” appearing books/media he certainly has Root beat.

  30. Solomon Drek

    Libertarians are conservatives and conservatives are libertarians. It doesn’t really matter what’s in a name. It all comes down to promoting state-sponsored social and economic Darwinism, where the wealthy, powerful, greedy, talented and privileged upper class can, under the protection of the state, dominate the weak, unintelligent, poor, unambitious and underprivileged lower class.

    Root simply epitomizes this philosophy.

  31. Bill Wood

    People, people people, what the hell are we doing. While Americans are worried about their jobs, the economy, health care, the War in Afganistan, terrorist, crime education and more we knuckleheads sit here and argue how Libertarian Wayne Allyn Root is ?God damn it ! No wonder we can’t move forward our ideas of smaller government, more personal freedoms and more individual responsiblities. Wake up people Wayne is not an enemy, he is on our side!

  32. Solomon Drek

    “Wayne is not an enemy, he is on our side!”

    Maybe your side, not my side.

    He’s on the side of the rich and powerful, and those with the talent, ambition and good fortune to become rich and powerful. The personification of Gordon “Greed is good” Gekko.

    The Wayne Roots of this world, with their Gordon Gekko approach to the allocation of economic resources, are the reason we have all the problems cited in the previous post.

  33. Agent Kris

    Bill Wood,

    We are coming up with an legitimate alternative to the likes of GWB, McCain, Hillary, and Obama. GWB said a lot of libertarian-sounding stuff in his 2000 campaign. Does that mean we should have accepted him as one of our own?

  34. JT

    lg: “Bullshit!!! I have NEVER heard Wayne say anything mean! thats a primary reason I grew to respect him.”

    Who claimed that Root said anything “mean”? I don’t think I’ve ever heard any libertarian call Root a “mean” guy. That’s not the reason why any libertarian dislikes him, to the best of my knowledge.

    Knapp didn’t say that either. He said that a) Root isn’t any more libertarian than Beck and that b) Root isn’t promoting the LP, just himself. Both of those claims seem true to me. Of course, the LP has had candidates before who fit that criteria as well.

    Solomon: “Maybe your side, not my side.”

    Based on your posts, your side seems to be best represented by Karl Marx. Good luck with that.

  35. NEGATIVE COMMENT IS SLANDER

    Even though the person didn’t leave a name on who did the posting, it can easily found out. Some of these comment can be considered slander and Defimantion of charactor against Wayne.

  36. Mik Robertson

    Is it just me, or based on these comments as anyone else wondering when Thomas L. Knapp and libertariangirl will be going out on a date?

    @21 “Not to say that Beck isn’t good some of the time, but then so is Rachel Maddow. But neither is libertarian, we simply agree SOME of the time.” Both conservatives and progressives can have good ideas, so there is no reason to vilify them as monsters. Heck, even Greens have good ideas sometimes:)

    So far I haven’t seen anyone commenting that Wayne has said something UNlibertarian. I would agree to some extent with Dr. Phillies that neoconservatism has moved toward the south end of the Nolan chart, but if anything, Wayne seems to have more of a paleoconservative background, hardly something that can’t be overcome.

    Perhaps Glenn Beck will announce he is seeking the LP Presidential nomination for 2012. That may throw a monkey wrench into who could claim front-runner status.

  37. Andy

    “Perhaps Glenn Beck will announce he is seeking the LP Presidential nomination for 2012.”

    I sure hope not. A celebrity candidate would be great but Glenn Beck is not the right one.

    “That may throw a monkey wrench into who could claim front-runner status.”

    I hope that more candidates emerge. The field is pretty weak right now.

  38. Andy

    “I have never seen him do this in public or in private conversations . He remains respectful and courteous to people at all times.

    I have never heard him be mean , online , in person or in any media interview.”

    I’m not supporting Wayne Root for the nomination, but I’ve met him a couple of times and he seems like a nice guy. I obviously don’t know him very well but I’ve never heard of him being a jerk to anyone.

    I have a few disagreements with him on some issues and I think that he’s missing a few pieces of the puzzle. I also think that he focuses too much on marketing the Libertarian Party to conservatives/Republicans and while doing outreach to conservatives/Republicans is not necessarily a bad thing, I think that Root does it at the peril of ignoring the rest of the political spectrum.

    Those are the reasons that I’m not backing him for the Presidential nomination. Root does have some positive attributes. He’s a good speaker. He appears to be a hard worker. He gets media coverage. If he would change a few things when it comes to issues, philosophy, and strategy I’d consider supporting him for the nomination, but I doubt that’s going to happen. I’d be more inclined to support him if he ran for a local or state level office.

  39. Steven R Linnabary

    Bullshit!!! I have NEVER heard Wayne say anything mean!

    Well, I HAVE heard him say some things that were at least borderline mean. Such as when Root referred to Obama as a racist because of his statements about the Harvard professor and his run in with a rogue cop and for his SCOTUS nominee and some of the comments she made years ago that were taken out of context.

    Root passed up an opportunity to criticize the SCOTUS nominee for some of her bone headed pro police state decisions, and passed up an opportunity to talk about rogue cops in favor of “He’s against white people!”

    I realize that when one is speaking on camera, without a script, you can say things you later regret. But Root said these things enough times that they have become part of his spiel. And not only does he show no regret, but it reflects poorly on the LP.

    I’m not even going to go into his pro war, pro torture rants, because I do believe they are evolving…at least until he gets the nomination.

    I have worked too long and too hard for the LP and it’s ideals for some yahoo to muck up everything for which I have worked!

    PEACE

  40. Thomas M. Sipos

    While Americans are worried about their jobs, the economy, health care, the War in Afganistan, terrorist, crime education and more we knuckleheads sit here and argue how Libertarian Wayne Allyn Root is ? … Wayne is not an enemy, he is on our side!

    Really?

    You’re right that Americans are concerned about the War in Afghanistan.

    But while the LP demanded that the U.S. exit Afghanistan, Root took the opposite position and called for a surge in Afghanistan.

  41. Thomas L. Knapp

    I’m going to go out on a limb here and try to put some words in LibertarianGirl’s mouth. I think I understand what she’s getting at with her “working hard for the LP” language, and it comes down to a quote from, of all people, Theodore Roosevelt:

    “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. Shame on the man of cultivated taste who permits refinement to develop into fastidiousness that unfits him for doing the rough work of a workaday world.”

    I’ve tried to be complimentary to Wayne with respect to his book where possible, if for no other reason than the above. I suspect his motives, but there’s no doubt that whatever those motives are he’s investing considerable effort in them.

    If you think that writing 400 pages on politics in book form is easy, either you’ve never done it or I’d like to borrow your stamina.

    I’ve probably written at least 10,000 pages on politics, but that’s an aggregate of short form — articles, speeches, comments, etc. I’m writing my own campaign book right now, and I have to tell you that the process is kicking my ass.

  42. Bill Wood

    Agent Kris, GWB never said he was a libertarian.

    Solomon , what is wrong with hard work, working on gaining knowledge, and being rewarded for your hardwork? You sound like one of the non-producers who want to take away from those who work and give to those who don’t.

  43. Robert Milnes

    Tom, quoting TR? WTF? I thought one usually quotes one that one has high regard for, if I do say so myself. I thought you thought Teddy was a proto fascist of some sort?

  44. Pingback: Tom Knapp: ‘Consciences of the Critics’ | Independent Political Report

  45. libertariangirl

    JT // Sep 8, 2009 at 9:29 pm
    Who claimed that Root said anything “mean”? I don’t think I’ve ever heard any libertarian call Root a “mean” guy. That’s not the reason why any libertarian dislikes him, to the best of my knowledge.

    John C Jackson // Sep 8, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    A lot of the mean and inflammatory stuff comes from Root.

    me_ JT are you reading the same thread I am?

  46. paulie Post author

    Hi Becky. Nice to see you back online; do you have a new blog yet, and if so, where can we find it?

    But, when you look honestly at the present breakdown of parties and ideologies it is inescapable that Ronald Reagan was right when he said that libertarianism is the heart of conservativism.

    I would dispute that assertion. As best I can tell, the only aspect of conservatism that is libertarian consists of some half hearted lip service on economic issues.

    There are, in general, more positions which libertarians agree on with self-identified conservatives than modern liberals. This means we will usually, but certainly by no means always, have more in common with conservatives than liberals.

    I don’t believe that is true. Very broadly speaking, we would tend to agree with modern conservatives more than modern progressives on economic issues, and agree with modern progressives more on peace and civil liberties issues. That is, of course, an overgeneralization, but in broad terms we agree with modern “liberals” on two sets of issues and with modern conservatives on only one.

    Additionally, I would personally argue that deviations from libertarian policy on peace and civil liberties issues are worse than deviations on economic issues. I would equate aggressive war to mass murder, wholesale civil liberties violations to systematic gang rape, and economic interventionism to gang robbery. On the scale of bad things that can happen to someone, I would say that murder and rape are worse than robbery. Thus, not only do I disagree with conservatives on more issues than “liberals,” but I find the issues where I disagree with conservatives to be more important.

    As a practical matter it is more common for a conservative to begin identifying themselves as a libertarian than a liberal doing the same–that is because there are basic assumptions in common that are anathema to modern liberals.

    I would argue that this has more to do with the way libertarianism is most frequently marketed, and that it should change – the sooner the better.

  47. paulie Post author

    Drek,

    Libertarians are conservatives and conservatives are libertarians.

    Not.

    It doesn’t really matter what’s in a name. It all comes down to promoting state-sponsored social and economic Darwinism, where the wealthy, powerful, greedy, talented and privileged upper class can, under the protection of the state, dominate the weak, unintelligent, poor, unambitious and underprivileged lower class.

    Nonsense on stilts.

    Libertarianism means opposing involuntary solutions to social problems; moderate libertarianism means seeking to minimize them while operating under the belief that some are unavoidable.

    I believe the key phrase there is “under the protection of the state,” and that it is precisely because of the “protection” of the state that this happens.

    That is why I seek to dismantle the state.

    Without the state, I expect the social order that would result would be more equitable, more socially mobile, more healthy, and more prosperous.

  48. paulie Post author

    Even though the person didn’t leave a name on who did the posting, it can easily found out. Some of these comment can be considered slander and Defimantion of charactor against Wayne.

    I love the smell of empty threats in the morning.

  49. paulie Post author

    Is it just me, or based on these comments as anyone else wondering when Thomas L. Knapp and libertariangirl will be going out on a date?

    Just as soon as I’m done with her.

    😛

  50. paulie Post author

    Theodore Roosevelt:

    “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. Shame on the man of cultivated taste who permits refinement to develop into fastidiousness that unfits him for doing the rough work of a workaday world.”

    Excellent quote, despite the source.

  51. paulie Post author

    @ 42

    Truth is an absolute defense

    CLS makes errors of fact: for example, as Tom Knapp points out in comments on the original blog post, Root does address drug policy and foreign policy in the book, contra CLS, although CLS is probably correct that those subjects are given short shrift.

  52. Eleanor Abernathy

    I’d like to see Root’s NFL handicapping record. Did he ever pick above 55% for a season?

    Who does he like for the season opener? Or, is he just giving half of his customers the home team and half of them the visitors?

    With that kind of business model, he could make lots of money and even have some fools still believe he’s a super nice guy as he’s fleecing them.

  53. Solomon Drek

    Andy@45: “I’m not supporting Wayne Root for the nomination, but I’ve met him a couple of times and he seems like a nice guy.”

    I never met a used car salesman who didn’t seem like a nice guy.

  54. Solomon Drek

    Paulie@55: “I believe the key phrase there is “under the protection of the state,” and that it is precisely because of the “protection” of the state that this happens.

    That is why I seek to dismantle the state.

    Without the state, I expect the social order that would result would be more equitable, more socially mobile, more healthy, and more prosperous.”

    Then you are an anarchist which is fine with me. The “Gordon Gekkos” would never survive in an anarchist environment without the state’s police and military forces to protect their capital interests.

    If you think the Wayne Roots of this world will lead you to a stateless entrepreneurial paradise then you are naive. All they will do is make the world safe for the Gordon Gekkos.

    In my opinion, you are more likely to achieve the stateless society you crave with Bob Milnes’ proposed alliance of libertarians, progressives and greens than you will with Root’s suggested alliance of libertarians and reactionary conservatives.

    You may find that you have more in common with Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader than you do with Bob Barr and Wayne Root.

  55. Solomon Drek

    JT@41: “Based on your posts, your side seems to be best represented by Karl Marx. Good luck with that.”

    I’ll need it. I suppose if the shoe (or label) fits I ought to wear it.

    At least, if the reactionary conservatives/libertarians are to be believed, I have something in common with Obama.

  56. Maccus Germanis

    Perhaps principled libertarians should take solace that erstwhile conservatives do understand the fundamentals in largely a libertarian way. -having made their compromises at different points- Those identifying themselves as progressive or green are much in love with the idea of a great authority that would make automatic their supposed reforms. At least among Federalists you’d have a chance of staking out a beacon State of Liberty.

  57. Not a used car salesman

    Because someone speaks how he thinks and with honesty doesn’t make him a used car salesman. You just don’t know the different.

  58. wolfefan

    Hi –

    Sorry to take so long to get back – I can only check the site once a day.

    LG, you mentioned that you weren’t anonymous – you were debra. Fair enough, and nice to meet you. My point was (and is) that you were as anonymous to me as the writer of the blog review is to you. Tom Knapp says that I can go to the blog and get an idea of who wrote that review; with respect, that’s more than I can do with the information you provide here. Again with respect, all I know about you now is that you say your name is debra. For all practical purposes you’re still just as anonymous to me as the writer of the post you criticize for (among other things) his/her anonymity. Long-time regulars here may know you, just as associates of the writer of the original post may know who wrote it; I fall into neither group.

    Not that any of this is germane to the original post… I just thought it was kind of ironic. There was a pretty big deal about one blogger publicly outing another a few months back (was it Ed Whelan and publius?) and I guess that was in the back of my mind.

    Best wishes to all… Jeff – if that is my real name 🙂

  59. Andy

    Solomon Drek // Sep 9, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    “‘I’m not supporting Wayne Root for the nomination, but I’ve met him a couple of times and he seems like a nice guy.’

    I never met a used car salesman who didn’t seem like a nice guy.”

    I didn’t mean that Wayne is necessarily sincere (he may or may not be), I just meant that he conducts himself as a gentleman, as in he is polite and friendly.

  60. Mike B.

    I’ve read Wayne’s “Conscience…” and I wasn’t impressed at all. Actually, I get the feeling that if the conservatives hadn’t abandoned their principles during their 8 year rule, Wayne would still self-identify himself as a Conservative Republican. If your going to run for office under the Libertarian Party ticket then you should be a libertarian and not bill yourself as a Conservative Libertarian which he does in his book and his radio show. After reading his book , I think his views are more in line with the Republican Liberty Caucus (libertarian-leaning Republicans).

    I don’t want mainstream libertarianism I want principled libertarianism. After all aren’t the conservatives crying like babies because they said that they abandoned their core conservative principles while Bush was in office.

  61. paulie Post author

    Open Letter To Glenn Beck By Alex Jones

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/open-letter-to-glenn-beck-by-alex-jones.html


    Alex Jones has addressed Glenn Beck in the form of an open letter, appealing to him to “be on the right side of history” by using his growing public platform to tell the truth rather than exploiting it to deceive grass-roots conservatives and libertarians into following a re-birth of the neo-con agenda that Beck has embraced all along.

    ——————————————

    Glenn Beck,

    It is important to preface this letter by highlighting the fact that I do not attack people lightly and have defended you in the past when Van Jones was calling for you to be fired. I fully support your right to free speech.

    It cannot be denied that you – Glenn Beck – are an extremely talented radio and television host and you have a magnetism and a proficiency of public speaking that draws people in and maintains their interest. However, being a novice history buff I am also painfully aware of the fact that Benedict Arnold was, like you, a talented individual – he was also a traitor.

    History is what matters and being on the right side of history is what’s important when it comes to the legacy we leave on this planet. You don’t want people to look back on you as a Benedict Arnold, as a traitor to America. You don’t want people to look back on you as a media whore, as playing the role of being loyal opposition to sucker legitimate and growing grass roots opposition to the new world order.

    Your agenda is to put out a dual message – to discredit and polarize the conservative movement to the benefit of the establishment left and the elite. Your bizarre and clownish antics of fake crying, which you proved were staged when you replicated them on demand for a GQ photo shoot, are doing nothing but reinforcing the stereotype that the conservative right is insane.

    Your entire 9/12 project has nothing to do with uniting America and everything to do with reinforcing neo-conservative rhetoric about how we should relinquish our rights and accept the police state because terrorists want to attack us and Saddam Hussein has WMD’s and yellowcake.

    As the video below illustrates, despite the fact that you claim to be “a Libertarian at heart,” you have publicly supported programs and legislation that are universally abhorred by the vast majority of libertarians, such as the banker bailout and the USA Patriot Act.

    During your Monday September 22 2008 TV broadcast, you expressed your vehement support for the bailout, stating, “The $700 billion dollars that you’re hearing about now is not only I believe necessary, it is also not nearly enough.” However, as soon as Bush left office and Obama picked up the baton and continued the same financial policy, you changed your tune and routinely attacked the bailout as an example of how socialism was taking over America.

    The bailout was bad news for America under Bush just as it is under Obama, both were merely performing a transfer of wealth from America to offshore banks and giving the Federal Reserve total dictatorial control over the economy, but you only opposed it when Bush was out of office, proving that your opinions are not wedded to right or wrong, but to which puppet is in the White House.

    A host of mainline conservative talking heads opposed the banker bailout, as did the majority of the American people, but you went on television and publicly supported it. This is irreconcilable with you being “a libertarian at heart” as you claim.

    In addition, you aggressively attacked Ron Paul and his supporters during the election campaign when it looked like the Texan Congressman might have a real chance of winning the nomination. You implied that Ron Paul supporters were domestic terrorists and should be dealt with by the U.S. Army, but later tried to side with Ron Paul supporters when the infamous and discredited MIAC report echoed your own talking point that people who support Ron Paul were dangerous.

    The smear came during a November 2007 show when you were still hosting on CNN. Yourself and ex-Marxist David Horowitz smeared Ron Paul supporters, libertarians and the anti-war left as terrorist sympathizers and inferred that the U.S. military should be used to silence them, parroting a talking point that traces back to a September 2006 White House directive. When asked about the issue, Ron Paul dismissed you as “pretty discourteous” and a “demagogue”.

    You Glenn Beck have acted as a cheerleader for the wars of aggression launched since 9/11 and in addition called for Iran to be attacked, claiming that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is preparing a “second holocaust.” Once again, these political opinions stand completely contrary to libertarian principles, which follow the founding fathers’ view that an expansionist aggressive foreign policy is bad for America.

    You have attacked Obama for unraveling the Bush war machine to give you left cover, when in fact Obama has done everything in his power to expand Bush’s wars, beefing the campaigns in Afghanistan and Pakistan while removing a token amount of troops from Iraq and replacing them with an even greater number of contractors.

    By attacking Obama for being different to Bush, when in reality he offers not change whatsoever, you keep people locked in the left-right paradigm and ensure that instead of coming to the realization that the whole system is rigged, they will merely vote in another puppet for the new world order in 2012.

    Glenn Beck – you are controlled opposition, you are there to co-opt and ensure the Tea Parties are under control and that they never focus on taking on the real power behind the American economy – the Federal Reserve.

    Bearing in mind that you almost died not too long ago, wouldn’t you rather come to the end of your life, whether that be in one year or 30 years from now, knowing that you stood up for true liberty and freedom? Isn’t that more valuable than your $50 million dollars a year contract? When I was approached ten years ago and offered large sums of money every year to sell out and become what you are today – the new Rush Limbaugh – while accepting tight controls on what I could and could not discuss – I said no and I thank God every day that I made the right decision.

    I appeal to you directly Glenn – think twice about what you are doing, think twice about what you are a part of right now. Try to do what you can to redeem yourself and don’t be a Benedict Arnold, don’t be a traitor that takes legions of good-natured but hoodwinked people down the rat hole with you as America collapses because those who had voices and platforms used them to deceive and distract rather than tell the truth.

    Alex Jones

  62. Pingback: Mike Renzulli reviews Wayne Root’s Conscience of a Libertarian | Independent Political Report

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *