Libertarian Party of Kentucky addresses racism allegations against Rand Paul

Posted at LPKY.org

LIBERTARIANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL PEOPLE

The Libertarian Party of Kentucky today reiterated that they are the party of acceptance.

“Liberty, freedom, and true economic prosperity cannot exist in a system which institutionalizes racism, bigotry, or other kinds of unfounded hatred,” said Ken Moellman, Chairman and Northern Kentucky native. “There’s been a lot of talk, trying to associate Libertarians with racism in the past month. It’s important to remind people that liberty and racism are incompatible.”

A political race leading to a taxpayer-funded primary within another political party has seen one candidate accuse another of being both a Libertarian and a racist.

“As head of the membership committee, I assure you that the person in question has never been a Libertarian,” said Ronald Seiter, Louisville native and Vice Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Kentucky. “He has neither signed our statement of principles, nor contributed to the Party in any way.”

He added, “All candidates from the Libertarian Party of Kentucky are vetted by the Party, and are prohibited from running under our party banner if they espouse principles inconsistent with our core philosophy.”

In 2008, The Libertarian Party of Kentucky Executive Committee removed a candidate from the ballot, after that candidate espoused a derogatory term about an ethnic group. They chose not to replace the candidate on the November ballot.

“While other political parties may have chosen to replace the candidate with a new one, we felt as though it was our responsibility as good citizens of the state to simply leave the race for that particular office,” Moellman said. “Racism and bigotry are unacceptable.”

The Libertarian Party of Kentucky is the official state affiliate for the Libertarian Party. Founded in 1971, the Libertarian Party believes in liberty through economic freedom and social tolerance, and is the nation’s third-largest political party. More information is available at their respective websites: http://www.lpky.org/ and http://www.lp.org/


IPR commentary:

The candidate being accused of racism in the ongoing primary is Ron Paul’s son, Rand Paul. The accuser is Paul’s GOP primary opponent, Secretary of State Trey Grayson. Paul is currently polling well ahead of both Grayson and his two likely Democratic rivals in the race for US Senate.

Kentucky.com explains the racism controversy in the Rand Paul Senate race. As far as I have been able to determine, it amounted to racist comments some anonymous person left on a myspace page attributed to a Rand Paul staffer who denied that it was actually his myspace page and then quit the campaign so as to not let the controversy further embarrass Rand Paul.

The candidate that LPKY removed from the ballot for racists statements in 2008 was Sonny Landham. IPR coverage of that, over multiple posts and user comments:

http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/?s=sonny+landham

51 thoughts on “Libertarian Party of Kentucky addresses racism allegations against Rand Paul

  1. paulie Post author

    @ Ron Paul Forums

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=224115

    erowe1 writes

    “Then again, I’m not quite sure if the IPR blogger might have misrepresented the press release. He writes at the bottom that they are talking about Rand Paul. But it’s also possible that they’re only talking about Hightower.”

    No, I did not misrepresent anything.

    I’ll quote from the press release:

    A political race leading to a taxpayer-funded primary within another political party has seen one candidate accuse another of being both a Libertarian and a racist.

    Rand is the candidate, not Hightower.

    It is true that the following paragraph does not make it clear whether “the person in question” is Hightower or Paul.

    If you can show me anything I misrepresented, please comment here (no registration required) and I will correct the post.

  2. Tim

    The losertarian party strikes again. Thankfully most Libertarians are becoming Anarcho-Capitalists and leaving politics behind, making the irrelevant party slip deeper into obscurity.

    Find me one instant where Rand espoused ‘racist’ belief. I know the Libertarian Party is focused on trying to appease the radical left to gain votes, but thats no excuse to resort to ad-hominem and childish behavior.

    Someone posted something racist on an inactive myspace page by Rand’s campaign spokesman. I guess this is ‘racist’ to libertarians. Thankfully your party is dwindling as libertarian party members are voting Republican in droves to unite behind a common enemy (Democrat-controlled Congress).

  3. paulie Post author

    Tim,

    Which are you in favor of – leaving politics behind, or becoming a Republican? If the latter, what were the wonderful achievements of the last Republican-controlled congress (1995-2007) or the last Republican president (2001-2009)? Perhaps having both of them at the same time (2001-2007) made things better in this country? Oh, wait, no, it didn’t.

    Find me one instant where Rand espoused ‘racist’ belief.

    Haven’t found one. Nor did I see any mentioned in the press release. All they said was that he was accused of it by another campaign. My own explanation at the end clarified what the accusation was about, which i would agree does not amount to a hill of beans and appears to be a sign of desparation on the part of Grayson.

  4. Eric Rowe

    Paulie,

    I never read the full press release including that quote about hte candidates, only what you quoted here. That additional quote you give clears it up. Thanks.

  5. Eric Rowe

    Good grief. Now I re-read your post, Paulie, and I see that that quote is in it to begin with, and I can’t delete my last comment. Never mind. My bad both times.

  6. paulie Post author

    Eric – no problem, everyone makes mistakes. I wanted to make sure in this case that if I was making a mistake that it would be corrected. Thanks for helping me make sure I’m getting the story right.

    On the same RonPaulForums thread, “RandomUser” writes at 9:58

    Ignore this, Ken is a stand up guy.

    p) I’ll vouch for that from the times I’ve met him in person or talked on the phone.

    He is not even talking about Rand in the press release by LP. He is referring to the LP Senate Candidate from Ky Sonny Landham.

    p) He refers to both in the press release. The candidate in another’ party’s tax-funded primary being accused of racism by his opponent is clearly a reference to Rand Paul, not Sonny Landham. The release does go on to talk about Sonny Landham, although not by name, towards the end. In my write up after the press release, I explain what that reference is to and give a link to more information.


    I am sure he does not want it to come back up in light of Rands recent issue.

    p) Yes, I imagine that is the reason for the press release.


    The poster from Independent Political Support is trolling for hits by attempting to connect it to Rand. It looks like it worked. IGNORE this. Kill the link please.

    p) Up to you, but I’m not “trolling for hits.” I’m reporting on an area where our little corner of the political universe intersects with “real world” big party politics. That is part of my volunteer job at IPR. How you report on that at Ron Paul Forums, or not, is up to y’all.

  7. Tim

    1) Many Libertarians are becoming Anarcho-Capitalists, since its hypocritical to be a ‘libertarian’ but believe in government monopoly. Many AnCaps (See Mises or FreeDomainRadio) don’t play politics.

    2) The GOP is corrupted, this is obvious. Big-government liberals (ie Neo-Conservatives) at a time totally owned the party. But now we have a chance to get actual Conservatives at the forefront of the party. Rand Paul & Chuck DeVore actually have a chance at winning their primary and going on to face the Dems in the general.

    The Conservative-Wing of the GOP is where its at. Right now we could use the Tea Party movement to our advantage and infiltrate the Republican Party with our own ideas. Now the ‘Neo-Cons’ like David Frum are throwing a fit that we have an actual chance at taking back our party.

    I’m a fan of the Conservative ideology, but you seem to play party politics. Do you think Bob Barr would have been preferable to Mccain? I’m waiting for an answer to this. Another huge reason I’ll never whore myself out for a political party.

  8. Tim

    “The LP will be more of losertarians if they keep on supporting Rand Paul. It is essential that they run their own candidate for the US Senate Seat.”

    Hopefully the stays the hell out of this race altogether. I’m a principled Conservative that would never support the party of hypocrites (LP) and actually wants to help change America. Thank you. 🙂

  9. Tim

    “The government is bad but if we ran government then it’d be better. The GOP is evil but our Ex-Republicans like Barr are holy individuals that will change America.”

    Does anyone take this junk seriously?

  10. paulie Post author

    1) Many Libertarians are becoming Anarcho-Capitalists, since its hypocritical to be a ‘libertarian’ but believe in government monopoly.

    I’m an anarchist libertarian, but not a capitalist in political terms. Here’s why.

    Many AnCaps (See Mises or FreeDomainRadio) don’t play politics.

    Some anarchists do play politics. If we don’t play politics, politics will still play us.

    The Conservative-Wing of the GOP is where its at. Right now we could use the Tea Party movement to our advantage and infiltrate the Republican Party with our own ideas. Now the ‘Neo-Cons’ like David Frum are throwing a fit that we have an actual chance at taking back our party.

    Emphasis added.

    When did these good conservatives control the Republican Party in the past and what good things did they accomplish when they did?

    I’m a fan of the Conservative ideology

    Not me. See Rothbard’s “Left and Right”: Forty Years Later by Roderick T. Long

    but you seem to play party politics.

    Depends on what you mean. I work across party lines, too.

    Do you think Bob Barr would have been preferable to Mccain?

    Yes. In the last presidential election I supported Steve Kubby and then Mary Ruwart for the Libertarian nomination, Ron Paul for the Republican nomination; ended up undecided between Bob Barr and Green Party candidate Cynthia McKinney, and in the end did not vote.
    You?

    Another huge reason I’ll never whore myself out for a political party.

    I will. Sometimes I’ll even slut myself out for free. From my blog….

    — In lpradicals@yahoogroups.com, “Rachel Hawkridge” wrote:

    Last nite, I was reading one of the blogs, and someone called paulie a whore for helping to get Barr on the ballot, when he’s not a supporter of the nominee.
    I roared with laughter . . . paulie gets paid. I did it for free.

    Guess that makes me . . . a slut? ;o)
    BTW, paulie said “Thank you.”

    p] Actually, I’m both a slut and a whore. For instance, I got Barr on the ballot in Arkansas for free. To make matters even worse, I didn’t even know it was for Barr at the time, since he wasn’t nominated yet and hadn’t even announced, so I guess that makes me a glory hole slut to boot, in addition to being a whore.
    Also, I’m a pimp, in addition to being a slut and a whore, because I make part of my living collecting overrides for managing crews of petition gatherers sometimes. And I am in no ways faithful to the Libertarians. Right now I’m doing a three-way, and negotiating to add one or two more clients at the same time. And I’m not using a condom with any of them! I guess that makes me a dirty whore.

    Not only that, but I kiss and tell: I offered to write either pro- or anti- Barr polemics to the highest bidder. I’m thinking of selling my vote, too, although I guess the buyer would just have to trust me that I stayed bought.

  11. paulie Post author

    “The government is bad but if we ran government then it’d be better. The GOP is evil but our Ex-Republicans like Barr are holy individuals that will change America.”

    Does anyone take this junk seriously?

    Who are you quoting?

  12. Tom

    “The candidate being accused of racism in the ongoing primary is Ron Paul’s son, Rand Paul.”

    It is not clear who is making this accusation from that sentence. Was it the author? Was it Jessie Jackson? The entire post is vague, and someone who just glances through it could easily come to the wrong conclusion. Not all readers have thoroughly researched the subject, or even completely read a given article. The original blog that started this story was guilty of very intentionally writing misleading headlines and content. Instead of starting your IPR commentary with a controversial or “suspense generating” sentence, perhaps it might be better to start out with the fact that this “tempest in a teacup” is related to an anonymous posting on a campaign staffer’s old, inactive and unmoderated MySpace page.

    Just a suggestion.

  13. paulie Post author

    It is not clear who is making this accusation from that sentence.

    Sure it is. Again: “A political race leading to a taxpayer-funded primary within another political party has seen one candidate accuse another of being both a Libertarian and a racist.” This part precedes my clarification, which admittedly does rely on people having first read what is above it. It is clear who is doing the accusing: Trey Grayson.

    The original blog that started this story was guilty of very intentionally writing misleading headlines and content.

    Haven’t seen the original blog. What was it?

    Instead of starting your IPR commentary with a controversial or “suspense generating” sentence,

    It would only generate suspense if you did not read the press release it comments on first. If you read the press release first, the suspense is over before it begins.

    perhaps it might be better to start out with the fact that this “tempest in a teacup” is related to an anonymous posting on a campaign staffer’s old, inactive and unmoderated MySpace page.

    I did mention that later on, other than the anonymous part. I’ll add that now that I know.

  14. paulie Post author

    I’ve fixed my commentary to reflect that the person who left messages on Hightower’s page was anonymous, and also clarified the identity of the accuser, as per Tom’s suggestions. Any other suggestions?

  15. Wes Wagner

    My open apology to the Libertarian Party of Oregon for destroying it.

    Please forward to as many places as is prudent — I need so much forgiveness, and since this is the proper season for it, it is only fitting I come humbly to beg of it now…
    by Wes Wagner
    (libertarian)
    Thursday, December 24, 2009

    A great amount of reflection has led me to conclude that my behavior in recent years towards the leadership of the Libertarian Party of Oregon has simply been abhorrent and downright unacceptable. It is my greatest regret that it has taken me so long to realize what I have done was wrong and that my actions would set back the party’s progress for years.

    I suppose the root of the issue can be traced back to that infernal Libertarian Party Statement of Principles. The first time I read it I thought, “Wow … a nonauthoritarian organization that believes in the ethical treatment of all individuals as sovereign people with inherent rights!” I was simply too naïve at the time and political inexperienced to realize that was just a show piece for duping donors and voters to support the party leadership and send in money and was not actually meant to be adhered to. Had I not made that absurd first error, perhaps things would not have happened the way they did.

    This, however, was hardly my first interpretive error. No, my childish transgressions progressed far beyond that. I recall still the moment when I attended an election night party, primarily for Mr. Cox who was deep into parlaying his involvement with the libertarian party into what would become his highly lucrative political career as a republican nobody who couldn’t even win a metro race after selling out the LPO in the most grand fashion and then being politically neutered by his new friends.

    At that party, I was gifted by the presence of the ever charming then executive director Mr. Richard Burke. He expressed to me his elation that such a fine, well-dressed professional person had become more active in the party and convinced me to throw my hat in to become the Clackamas County Chairperson. You see this is where I made my next mistake. Apparently this was supposed to be a gesture… like how in an old lordly court when someone offers you a place up at the next table. Now as my wife could tell you, I was raised by wolves, and so no one ever explained to me how this whole social order thing worked. So as inept as I am, I actually thought that it was a responsibility and thus behaved as such an ass.

    You see, it wasn’t until later I realized that my primary responsibility was supposed to be to keep the chair warm and play ball and sit up for Mr. Burke, unlike that smelly dirty hippy Ralph who was nipping around the idea of taking the position. (Shhh… don’t say anything, but I think he might have even smoked pot… we can’t have that in our party can we?)

    Someone really should have told me what my role was… if you are planning to put people in the position because they are passive and stupid like me, you really should give them better instructions. Maybe you could make a printed manual, in a binder, kind of a handbook of sorts for well managed state committee members. I wager you could even turn it into workshops, with boilerplate ideas that have failed 50 times over, but will surely work the next time. There could even be no fee for attending the conference, but you could charge me something that is fair for the cost of the printed materials to help pay off a copier lease or something. After all, we need to keep using donor money to pay for staff and fancy offices, and we all should really pull our own weight for our own training materials. Donors don’t want freeloaders you know. If only I had something like those training courses though, maybe I would not have disappointed you. Oh, sorry… for a moment there I stopped taking personal responsibility. Let’s move on.

    Over my time as Clackamas County Chairperson, I heard a lot of rumblings about grievances from party members about alleged unethical personal treatment by party staffers and “elected” leadership. When I expressed these concerns to the then executive director, he seemed not at all concerned about the allegations themselves but rather want to know who was saying them. Silly me! Apparently all these problems could have just been handled professionally. Our executive director had a system for handling these situations. There were so many options. Throwing out their party newsletters so they wouldn’t show up for meetings. Accidentally removing them from the membership list or adjusting their membership dates to disenfranchise them. Making up new rules on the spot like “good standing”. There were just so many options but I clearly was not creative and clever enough.

    Had I simply know that there were these far more professional methods of creating party unity instead of actually listening to a person and acknowledging their concerns, perhaps this entire mess could have been averted.

    Of course, if individual board members get out of line, there were ways of dealing with that too. If say, someone like Phil Schmitt were asking too many questions … apparently as a professional politician you are supposed to take each of the board members aside and make up a story, like, “Phil is just playing political games to try to take over the party.” As a good board member, apparently you are supposed to just accept this and isolate him so he will give up and go away. Oh boy, did I ever screw that one up! I actually talked to him! In retrospect, I am so embarrassed.

    But my shame did not end there!

    We had a treasurer at that time that was complaining about the party spiraling down into a quagmire of debt and the financial abuses of the executive director and how the board wouldn’t listen to her or do anything about it. Heck, at one point the executive director, clearly a qualified medical professional, even told me she had herpes and it affected her brain! What the hell was I thinking? Listening to the crazy ramblings of a herpes-addled embittered treasurer. Clearly had she told me water was wet I should have thought it was as parched as the desert sand after such a revelation about her credibility. But alas, no… I compounded my grievous and heinous acts against our beloved party by asking even more questions.

    This brings up another fine skill that I was supposed to learn but didn’t. Our glorious misogynist leadership, if anything, tried to teach me how important it was to cavort with female staffers. This is extremely important because then they can be pressured to give things to you, like say LPNC fundraising and donor information, and if they ever turn on you, you can just claim they are bitter. I failed to learn that one too.

    It was all really silly and I was just such a clueless hack who wouldn’t listen to any of the great advice everyone like Don Smith, Frank Dane, Eric Winters, Jerry DeFoe, and so many countless others who could have steered me back to sanity. And all those time those fellow board members told me to not be so uppity and that we were all supposed to be on the same team… and about loyalty and everything. You all tried so hard. Oh and a personal shout out to Mr. David Terry… when you kicked me off the libertarian mailing list, I know that was just your way of showing tough love. And that time at Sun River when you stood up and set me straight by reminding me in front of the entire convention that we can’t let the unwashed masses vote on anything because they may not vote the right way – well look at the mess we are in now because I didn’t listen to your sage council and tell them all to go to hell like the rest of you did.
    For the sake of this apology not going on too long, I will skip forward some in time. Believe me; I am truly sorry about all that stuff in the middle too. Just take my word for it.

    So after we have finally replaced our treasurer with the spouse of the chairperson things just went swimmingly. We went a long time between financial reports at state committee meetings, so things must have been perfect for a while there, but one day Mrs. Mayer seemed particularly frustrated and told me that she was concerned about the executive director using the party debit card to buy groceries for his apartment, again.

    Well excuse me. Apparently misappropriation of party funds was supposed to be the tacit acceptance by the board as just compensation due to the large amounts of party debt owed to the director. Debt that had been accumulated because fundraising targets had not been met and the ever pressing need to make increasingly larger expenditures to prove how relevant we all were. I just was incapable of understanding the subtle complexities of our just right to violate campaign finance law and that is was prudent and necessary to put the entire enterprise at risk and that permitting the director to use the party bank account as his personal slush fund is just how professional politics is done.

    Again… what an ass I was. You see, I actually… oh really this is very silly. I went out and actually demanded that the books and the financial reports to the Secretary of State should (oh really this is silly) be revised and made to reflect reality. Then this crazy guy named Lars Hedbor started acting up and asking repeatedly on a daily basis why there were so many personal debit card transactions on the bank account. You know they told me to shut him up. I suppose since he was in Clackamas County too he was supposed to be my personal stooge. He wasn’t though and I was just powerless to do a thing about it because I did not do my job of making sure my feudal territory was under my complete control. Damn it all… I couldn’t do anything right.

    Well.. I wish I could say that it all ended there. That I learned my lesson and became the good solid stalwart professional and successful party member that the leadership thought I had the potential to be. But sadly, I failed.

    I was so stubborn and pigheaded that I actually went out and filed a suit against the party to seek a alternative writ of mandamus to compel the party officials to obey corporate and state election finance law, and their own bylaws. At this point, I had clearly gone beyond the pale. Invoking the judicial process to prevent fraudulent governance is apparently only something we pay a token nod to… it is not meant to be actually be done! I really should have listened to the fine rhetorical discourse that followed. After such a massive amount of ad hominem attacks piled up, clearly any logical person who was not at all accustomed to succumbing to logical fallacy would have realized the error of their ways and repented much sooner.

    When I refused to drop the suit, our great party patriot, Aaron Starr, himself a pillar of finance, volunteered to burn up $10,000 of his personal funds, no questions asked to ensure that the party books would stay at proper 350 degree baking temperature. This grand gesture of unquestioned party loyalty should have been an example to me. Party and political loyalty above principle, every time, no question! But my cold dark heart was unmoved by even the most noble and grand gesture of unflinching nationalistic pride.
    After all of this, the membership of the Libertarian Party of Oregon felt the only way I could possibly learn the importance of all these skills everyone failed to teach me so far was to appoint me Chairperson.

    Well the manners in which I messed that up are something of legend. Membership increased, people came back who had not been interested in the party for years that we had worked so hard to get rid of, bills were paid on time, we ran a positive P&L every month, outreach events cropped up, and there were even attempts made to push forward constitutional reform that would make the party more decentralized, federated and focused on individual leadership.

    Fortunately new people showed up fresh from a conservative leadership conference to stop me from my insanity, so, in the end I and my other fellow ne’er-do-wells decided to not seek re-election and go hide in shame.

    Fortunately after a couple years the party has found its footing again. They have a treasurer who does not file accurate reports and they spend most their time involved in political backbiting and having little dinner club meetings instead of growing candidates and membership.

    I take some comfort in that my errors were, to a degree, reversed. It helps me sleep at least a little at night. I would ask that everyone take a moment, search your hearts, find that tiny bit of compassion left in you and consider forgiving me for the great crimes I have committed.

    When you have had that moment of reflection, I would also ask that you consider giving me your support to be Oregon’s next Governor. I can promise you I have learned absolutely nothing from my experiences, so sending me to Salem may be a good idea.

    Regrets,
    Wes Wagner

    http://www.nolanchart.com/article7181.html

  16. Darryl Schmitz

    The entire racist blog post seems really suspicious. It would certainly be really easy to plant an offensive comment like that on someone’s page… or even create a page in someone else’s name and play all kinds of mischief without the guy being aware of it – especially if he’s as busy as a campaign spokesman. If this actually turns out to have been a guerilla warfare dirty trick by the Grayson camp, it could blow back in his face as surely as the “balloon boy” dad had happen to him.

  17. Trent Hill

    ““As head of the membership committee, I assure you that the person in question has never been a Libertarian,” said Ronald Seiter, Louisville native and Vice Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Kentucky. “He has neither signed our statement of principles, nor contributed to the Party in any way.””

    Rand Paul has never claimed to be a Libertarian, rather he has claimed to be a “libertarian”. If Ronald Seiter doesn’t know the difference, maybe he shouldn’t be contributing his 2 cents to press releases. Moron.

    As for you Paulie–great work. Good post.

  18. Trent Hill

    My commentary–I hope the Kentucky LP stays out of this. They’re taking pot-shots at a candidate like Ron Paul who is clearly allied with the extreme libertarian wing of the GOP. It’d be like the Texas LP taking potshots at Ron Paul. Ridiculous.

  19. paulie Post author

    Thanks, Trent.

    I don’t think that Seiter is a moron.

    Rather, what he is addressing is the allegations that Grayson has made that Paul is “really a Libertarian, not a real Republican” or something to the effect.

    Of course, as you know, many in the media don’t distinguish between small l and Big L libertarians.

    Given that Landham has already linked “libertarian” with “racist” in the mind of some people in Kentucky — and that Grayson is busy asserting or insinuating that Paul is both (as I see it – mostly because Grayson is behind and needs something to latch on to, any piece of driftwood in a storm) — I can see the need for LPKY to have said something.

    I don’t know whether at the time that they wrote the press release whether it was yet known that it was anonymous comments on an unmaintained myspace page. There’s no date on the press release; I only found it this morning because Ken Moellman commented on the Badnarik story and I clicked on his name link and took a look at the LPKY page.

  20. Daniel

    I am libretarian I think all should be free to do what they please right after we segrigate!!!!!

  21. Tim

    “Some anarchists do play politics. If we don’t play politics, politics will still play us.”

    Thank you for agreeing with my point. But I was bringing this up since most pure Libertarians no longer care that much for politics. Many of these people were die-hard LP activists. My point basically was– your party isn’t doing so well at the moment. 🙂

    And by the way, Paulie, perhaps you should carefully re-read my post again. And your friend should as well. When did I call you a ‘whore’ for getting Barr on the ballot? In fact, when did I bring the ‘ballot’ up in the first place? Just to make sure we’re on the same page here. My comment was:

    “Do you think Bob Barr would have been preferable to Mccain? I’m waiting for an answer to this. Another huge reason I’ll never whore myself out for a political party.”

    I guess in LP dreamland this translate to: “Oh my god the awful Republican called me a whore.” When back in reality I was criticizing the LP members that nominated Barr in order to gain votes, despite the fact the guy isn’t very… Libertarian.

    May be the blog post wasn’t directed to me, if so please stay on-topic. I don’t want to get involved with drama between you and some anonymous internet guy. It doesn’t convince me to vote LP. Okay, thanks. 🙂

  22. Tim

    [i] Actually, I’m both a slut and a whore. For instance, I got Barr on the ballot in Arkansas for free. To make matters even worse, I didn’t even know it was for Barr at the time, since he wasn’t nominated yet and hadn’t even announced, so I guess that makes me a glory hole slut to boot, in addition to being a whore.
    Also, I’m a pimp, in addition to being a slut and a whore, because I make part of my living collecting overrides for managing crews of petition gatherers sometimes. And I am in no ways faithful to the Libertarians. Right now I’m doing a three-way, and negotiating to add one or two more clients at the same time. And I’m not using a condom with any of them! I guess that makes me a dirty whore.

    Not only that, but I kiss and tell: I offered to write either pro- or anti- Barr polemics to the highest bidder. I’m thinking of selling my vote, too, although I guess the buyer would just have to trust me that I stayed bought.[/i]

    Are you okay? You’re one-man clown show isn’t convincing me to join your fringe party if thats what you’re attempting to do.

  23. paulie Post author

    And your friend should as well.

    Who’s that?

    When did I call you a ‘whore’ for getting Barr on the ballot?

    No, that wasn’t you, that was Mike Nelson (aka disinter).

    I guess in LP dreamland this translate to: “Oh my god the awful Republican called me a whore.”

    Awful? LOL, no, I thought it was funny.

    You mentioned that you don’t whore out for a political party, and I mentioned I do. Try not to read too much into that, k?

    When back in reality I was criticizing the LP members that nominated Barr

    That wouldn’t be me. I voted for Kubby until he was eliminated and then Ruwart. Blaming me for Barr is kind of like if I blamed you for McCain.

    May be the blog post wasn’t directed to me

    It;s from over a year ago.

    if so please stay on-topic

    No. I’ll decide what I consider relevant for myself, thanks.

    It doesn’t convince me to vote LP.

    I’m not trying to convince you to vote LP.

    What made you think I was?

  24. paulie Post author

    Are you okay?

    Just fine, thanks.


    You’re one-man clown show isn’t convincing me to join your fringe party if thats what you’re attempting to do.

    It isn’t.

  25. Tim

    “When did these good conservatives control the Republican Party in the past and what good things did they accomplish when they did?”

    Whats your definition of a ‘good conservative?’ Someone who wishes to decriminalize drugs, go to war, cut taxes? What do you mean? If you’re asking for my favorite period of the Republican Party it is when Paleo-Conservative like individuals ruled it. IE the ‘Old Right.’

    What did the LP accomplish?

    By the way, would everything magically get better if everyone joined the Libertarian Party? So if Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, Lindsey Graham all registered as a Libertarian would this change the nation for the better?

  26. Tim

    “No, that wasn’t you, that was Mike Nelson (aka disinter).”

    Well I’m not getting involved with drama between you & some anonymous guy. Bye.

  27. paulie Post author

    Whats your definition of a ‘good conservative?’

    I have no such definition. You are the one who said conservatives are good, I didn’t.

    If you’re asking for my favorite period of the Republican Party it is when Paleo-Conservative like individuals ruled it. IE the ‘Old Right.’

    When was this, and what did they accomplish with their rule?

    What did the LP accomplish?

    Helped to popularize libertarian ideas, which are now beginning to infiltrate the mainstream. Led directly or indirectly to the formation of most of the other organizations in the libertarian movement. Helped defeat a lot of bad legislation (and ocassionally to pass good legislation) through pressure and lobbying. At times, got people elected or appointed to various offices (yes, it does happen).

    By the way, would everything magically get better if everyone joined the Libertarian Party?

    No.

    Well I’m not getting involved with drama between you & some anonymous guy.

    You have an amazing aptitude for misreading. There was no drama, and no one asked you to get involved.

    Bye.

    Buh bye.

  28. Dan

    The Libertarian party saying Rand Paul is not one of them is probably the best thing Rand has going for him here.

  29. Michael H. Wilson

    re # 16 Mr Wagner is on target but the problems go back much further. The earliest I saw these shenanigans was roughly 1993. A number of us tried to stop this stuff but we could not get a hearing. It seemed no one up the food chain gave a rat’s ass. The still don’t.

  30. Michael H. Wilson

    Allow me on more point regarding Mr. Wagner’s comments.

    Many of you on this site know Tonie Nathan. For those of you who don’t, Tonie was the VP candidate on the first Libertarian ticket with John Hospers who was the presidential candidate. Tonie Nathan lives in Eugene, Oregon and has done tremendous work for the LP in the state of Oregon. Tonie has been a force for good in the state and an wonderful asset for the LP.

    In my opinion these people that Wes is writing about did nothing but piss away all the fine work that Tonie Nathan accomplished over the years.

  31. Robert Capozzi

    I read Wagner’s missive and while I don’t know him or the people he refers to, the tone and substance sounds vengeful and childish. What purpose does such a screed serve?

  32. Trent Hill

    “I don’t know whether at the time that they wrote the press release whether it was yet known that it was anonymous comments on an unmaintained myspace page. There’s no date on the press release; I only found it this morning because Ken Moellman commented on the Badnarik story and I clicked on his name link and took a look at the LPKY page.”

    The comments were also posted two years ago (on his myspace page). What you’re saying here is that the LPKY effed up and allied themselves with an open racist (Sonny Landham), so now they have put themselves in a situation in which they must attack Rand Paul because his opponent is accusing him of racism? That’s preposterous. No one is accusing Rand Paul of being a member of the Libertarian Party, far from it. Rather, they are suggesting he’s a libertarian in belief or politics. The distinction isn’t explicit, it’s implicit.

    The LPKY shouldn’t run a candidate. It’d be a waste of resources and create much ill-will between Ron Paulites/Republican Libertarians and the LP.

  33. paulie Post author

    The comments were also posted two years ago (on his myspace page).

    Maybe LPKY was not aware of that when the charges first surfaced? All they heard was “libertarian” and “racist” being tied together again. That would be my guess, anyway.

    No one is accusing Rand Paul of being a member of the Libertarian Party, far from it. Rather, they are suggesting he’s a libertarian in belief or politics. The distinction isn’t explicit, it’s implicit.

    True, no one accused him of being a member of the LP, but the media often does not draw the distinction, so LPKY felt the need to draw it for them in view of the charges. Again, my guess.

    The LPKY shouldn’t run a candidate. It’d be a waste of resources and create much ill-will between Ron Paulites/Republican Libertarians and the LP.

    I haven’t heard of them having any plans to run a candidate in the US Senate race.

  34. Greg

    Rand may not be a Libertarian, but he is indeed a libertarian. His opponent Trey Grayson is a big-government neocon. If Rand Paul loses the Kentucky Republican primary race to Trey Grayson, the Kentucky LP should then run a LP candidate against Trey Grayson and the Democrat candidate. Indeed, if Rand Paul loses the primary, it would be my hope that the Democrat candidate defeat Trey Grayson in the general election. I’d much rather have a Democrat in that seat than a big-government Bush-respecting neocon in there.

  35. Johncjackson

    I read the linked article as well as the poll the article refers to and I did not see any poll that had Paul vs. Grayson. So I dont see this interpretation of Paul being ahead of Grayson. I did see that Grayson does slightly better against the Democrats, but I dont see anything Paul vs. Grayson.

  36. paulie Post author

    Hmmm, that’s odd – when I put up this article I thought that the story mentioned Paul being ahead. Thanks for pointing that out; I’ll find another source for that statement.

  37. paulie Post author

    Does being thought of as racist hurt a Republican in Kentucky?

    Maybe not, but I gather the Libertarians determined it hurts them to be thought of as racist.

  38. ken moellman

    Hey everyone.

    Let me first start by saying that we were not calling anyone a racist. I apologize if that wasn’t clear. There are FEC guidelines in play here that prevent us from being too verbose, which leads to an overuse of pronouns.

    The current IPR summary at the end of the press release made this more clear for the general public, and I thank you guys here at IPR for filling in the gaps. Paulie nailed every single criticism exactly right.

    The targeted audience of the press release was the Kentucky media, which has been filled with a slew of press releases from one candidate, accusing another of being both “Libertarian” and “racist”. It was important to reiterate in the minds of the public that real libertarians are not racists.

    Sadly, the traditional print media in Kentucky is still on the downward trend, and none of them chose to print our response to these statements.

    As to the particular positions on issues for each candidate in this race – and in any race – I strongly recommend that you examine the websites of each candidate in Kentucky, and listen to them speak, and make your own determinations.

    And if the LP has a candidate on the ballot, I always encourage you vote straight-LP-ticket, of course – but that is my (unpaid) job, after all. 🙂

  39. ken moellman

    PS. Ron Seiter is not a moron, and I’m not pleased about the attack on him. He’s a hard-working future leader of the LP. Anyone in Kentucky, and specifically Louisville, knows that Ron works his tail off for the LP and for liberty.

  40. LR

    You may consider Bill Johnson for Senate. He’s a traditional conservative without the fringe libertarian ties. His Web site is Kentuckybill.com

  41. Pingback: Rand Paul staffer Christi Gillespie resigns, switches to Libertarian | Independent Political Report

  42. paulie Post author

    http://www.lpky.org/node/159

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

    LIBERTARIAN PARTY OF KENTUCKY REITERATES: RAND PAUL IS NOT A LIBERTARIAN

    The Libertarian Party of Kentucky again reiterated today that Rand Paul is not a Libertarian.

    “I have heard Rand Paul speak at TEA Party events, and I can assure you that his positions are that of a Republican,” said LPKY Chairman Ken Moellman. “While the GOP is going through an identity crisis, the Libertarian Party has stood firm upon the same principles since its founding.”

    “As head of the membership committee, I assure you that [Paul] has never been a Libertarian,” said Ronald Seiter, Louisville native and Libertarian Party of Kentucky Vice Chairman. “He has neither signed our statement of principles, nor contributed to the Party in any way.”

    The Libertarian Party agrees with portions of both the Democratic and Republican Party platforms; though, not always for the same reasons. The ‘non-aggression principle’ guides the Libertarian Party. Signing an oath to adhere to that principle, along with annual dues, is a requirement for full membership in the Party or to run as one of its candidates.

    The Libertarian Party of Kentucky will begin to announce its 2010 candidates for office around the state in the next few months. Kentucky law creates separate procedures for anyone not running as a Democrat or Republican. “That shouldn’t be a surprise. They wrote the rules to keep others out. But the political atmosphere has changed, people are tired of politics as usual,” Moellman said. “And I think we’re going to have some very good results in November.

    The Libertarian Party of Kentucky is the official state affiliate for the Libertarian Party. Founded in 1971, the Libertarian Party believes in achieving liberty through economic freedom and social tolerance, and is the nation’s third-largest political party. More information is available at their respective websites: http://www.lpky.org/ and http://www.lp.org/

    ###

  43. Pingback: Libertarian Party of Kentucky: Rand Paul is not a Libertarian or a libertarian | Independent Political Report

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