Warren Redlich: ‘Carl Paladino and Roger Stone’; Stone calls on Redlich to apologize for calling Davis a “whore”

The following is posted at Warren Redlich’s campaign website.

In related news:

1) Both Paladino and Davis have caused a stir with comments and emails that appeared to endorse bestiality, among other things. See Bestiality, pornography, racism, and the race for Governor of New York

2) From the Albany Times-Union
http://blog.timesunion.com/capitol/archives/25264/e-mails-show-stone-strategizing-for-paladino/
E-mails show Stone strategizing for Paladino

“(Stone’s) making offers that they’ll make me the attorney general candidate under Paladino’s ticket, which I don’t know why he has the authority to do that. And you’ve got Roger Stone working for two gubernatorial candidates at the same time. That stands out to me,” Redlich told me by phone. “You’ve got Carl Paladino saying he’s trying to be different. You’ve got him now working with a political whore who’s trying to put a whore on the ticket.”

Stone responds,

“Calling Kristin a whore is both in bad taste and actionable. She was a madam. not a whore,” Stone noted after the first version of this post went up. “Davis has called on Redlich to apoligize.”

3) Paladino has claimed that he may qualify the Tea Party as a political party in New York State.

Redlich’s website has video of him speaking at Tea Parties…



What’s the connection between Carl Paladino and Roger Stone? Paladino is running for Governor, and Stone is working for Kristin Davis, another candidate for Governor. Paladino claims he’s different from regular politicians. Really?

For the past two days I’ve been involved in an e-mail exchange with Roger Stone. The exchange makes it clear that Stone is in fact associated with the Paladino campaign. Highlights of the e-mails are below, and the full text of the entire exchange is below that. I include a couple of messages to and from Carl Paladino and/or his campaign manager.

Stone’s manipulative style runs the gamut from threats to promises and from braggadocio to cockiness. He may be the Lex Luthor of politics. Or maybe he used to be.

Brief background – Davis and I are both seeking the Libertarian nomination. The convention is this coming Saturday (4/24). Stone wanted to make some kind of deal. My campaign manager tried to set up a meeting on April 20th. I got conflicting signals as to whether Stone was coming, so I sent him an e-mail. He said he wasn’t and suggested we talk on the phone.

Below are the highlights of the e-mails.

Me, 4/20/2010, 10:31 am: Can we just talk at the LPNY convention? We can talk Friday evening or Saturday morning, before anything of substance happens at the convention. …

Stone, 4/20, 10:43 am: No- that is too late- unless we can reach some accomodation Kristin wont be attending the convention. … In that case we’d prefer to petition on our own party onto the balot- litigate over the word LIBERTARIAN- plenty of case-law. … I suggest a broader effort. …

In the above message, Stone starts off with two threats. First, she’s not coming to the convention unless we have a deal. Second, if there’s no deal they’ll sue us. Then he suggests we work together.

Stone, 4/20, 3:20 pm: If my previous e-mail offended you I apologize. I am perhaps too blunt. … We are prepared to underwrite all petitioning costs. The petiton firm we hired is also doing Paladino’s Tea Party petitions. …

Me, 4/20, 4:05 pm: … I don’t think the LPNY is willing to have Kristin in the Governor slot but I don’t speak for them – you’re wasting your time talking to me. …

Stone, 4/20, 4:20 pm: It doesn’t work that way. The party doesn’t speak with one voice. The idea that “they” make the decision is absurd. each person has a vote. Working together a majority could be derived. …

Me, 4/20, 4:32 pm: What do you have in mind? … I assume the only acceptable deal is with Kristin as the Governor candidate. That’s not a deal I would make. Unless you’re willing to consider another alternative, there’s no point in talking further.

Next is one of the more important e-mails showing the Paladino connection.

Stone, 4/20, 4:48 pm: … If you ran for AG I could get Paladino to let you ride on both his GOP … and Tea Party petitions- and thus get in the GOP primary for real and get a second line. I can have Paladino himself confirm this if you like. Donovan is not a certain candidate for AG. You could end up the nominee. …

me, 4/20, 4:59 pm: Paladino and I discussed the AG idea briefly. We also discussed the possibility of him at the top of the LPNY ticket. He didn’t seem interested …. My hunch … is that Paladino drops out of the race by the end of May. …

More display of the Paladino connection in the next one

Stone, 4/20, 5:09 pm: Dont agree on Paladino. His statewide TV begins monday. He will enter the GOP primary. The CP will nominate Lazio but he can be slated for a judgeship to create a vacancy. If Paladino wins the primary they can switch nominees. …

It was at this point that I reached out to Paladino, forwarding him Stone’s e-mails.

Me, 4/20, 6:01 pm: Carl,
When we met last week, I did not have the impression that Roger Stone was on your campaign team. … he is speaking to me as if he has some sway over you – “I could get Paladino to let you ride on ….”

It was my impression that you were campaigning as someone different from the usual politicians. If you’re working with Roger Stone, in the way he describes, then you don’t seem that different to me.

Next is the telling moment – The first response to the e-mail did not come from Paladino – it came from Stone. In other words, Paladino forwarded the message to Stone – they are working together.

Stone, 4/20, 9:05 pm: Warren- do you really think this is clever ?……..you’re out your league- and gentlemen don’t share personal correspondence. You sir, are no gentleman-

Me, 4/20, 10:08 pm: Not trying to be clever. You purported to speak for Carl. I met Carl and I’m checking to determine if you really do. A gentleman? You threatened me twice in one of your early messages. … Never claimed to be in your league.

Stone: 4/20, 11:21 pm: You make me question your ability to read. My first missive with you contained two cold stone facts that you took as threats. … I am highly confident Carl would see the wisdom in an alliance with you. … Beating Andrew Cuomo requires a multi-candidate race . A rock-rib Republican on the libertarian line is not good for Paladino. … Where you are wrong is in saying Carl will drop in May. You dont know Carl. He isnt a quiter. He will win the GOP primary over Lazio. The guy has giant balls and will not be stopped despite his current problems. He gets better as a candidate every day. Carl Paladino can win in my opinion. The stars have to line up. But they will.

Next is Paladino’s e-mail.

Paladino, 4/21, 10:37 am: roger stone is a longtime friend and associate of mike caputo, my campaign manager and a more recent friend of mine. … roger does not speak for me. nevertheless i do respect what he has to say. …

Early in the exchange I had forwarded Stone’s first e-mail (the two threats) to Eric Dondero, a libertarian Republican blogger who has been following the campaign. Dondero contacted Stone, and this followed:

Stone, 4/21, 5:03 pm: Dondero wont print your leaked correspondence
rookie move asshole
guess CP shoved it up your ass, too.

LOSER…………..

There was more. The full exchange is below:

Me, 4/20, 9:37 am: Mr. Stone,
I’m getting conflicting messages from intermediaries. Are we meeting today?
Warren

Stone, 4/20, 9:43 am: Dear Warren
No I had told both Eric and Lora that we are seeing Larry Flynt today to feel him out about running on Kristin’s ticket for the U.S. Senate. Flynt only in NYC today. I suggest a phone call to see if there’s a reason to meet.

Like to include Eric in the call.
Can u suggest a time good for you both ?
Roger Stone

Me, 10:31 am: Can we just talk at the LPNY convention? We can talk Friday evening or Saturday morning, before anything of substance happens at the convention.
My schedule this week is pretty crazy. Had a trial yesterday, going to court near Binghamton tomorrow, etc.
W

Stone, 10:43 am: Warren
No- that is too late- unless we can reach some accomodation Kristin wont be attending the convention. A convention where a candidate isnt given a list of eleigible voters and where a poll tax of $25 is paid to vote isnt very legitimate.
In that case we’d prefer to petition on our own party onto the balot- litigate over the word LIBERTARIAN- plenty of case-law.

Sure u can win the nomination on Saturday. How will you get 50,000 votes without money or publicity. I suggest a broader effort.
I too am busy. Let me know if you are available to talk by phone.
R

Stone, 3:12 pm: Warren
If my previous e-mail offended you I apologize. I am perhaps too blunt. I am only making the point that Kristin is determined to be on the November ballot either way and that a collaboration make some sense. You are a highly articulate candidate with a good grasp of the issues. From that point of view you probably are the stronger candidate.
In terms of the ability to command resources and win free media attention, based on a compelling narrative I think she is the stronger candidate. Your background and upstate residence would make u a good team.
We have spent $25,000 on a poll to help guide a successful drive for 250,000 votes- surpassing the IP and CP and WFP. I know how to get there. Kristin can raise the $1M it will take. We have just closed a deal with REASON on-Line to put a weekly campaign video up.
We are prepared to underwrite all petitioning costs. The petiton firm we hired is also doing Paladino’s Tea Party petitions.

I am sorry lunch would not work today. I haven’t called you directly because I had a good first conversation with Eric and I don’t talk to candidates behind their managers back .It isnt done in my business. I have asked Eric to set up a conference call so we might discuss this further.
Talking Friday night leaves no time for a joint statement, campaign materials, vote solicitation and recruitment of suitable ticket-mates and a PR effort to insure maximum coverage of the nominations. Even if we team up we have to go out and line up votes.
I look foward to speaking at your convenience.
Roger Stone

Me, 4:05 pm: I’m a trial lawyer. When people threaten to sue me I find it amusing.
My impression is that you want Kristin to have the LP nomination for Governor and you may want me on the slate, perhaps LG or AG.
I don’t think the LPNY is willing to have Kristin in the Governor slot but I don’t speak for them – you’re wasting your time talking to me. If you can get the LPNY to go along with Kristin as the Governor candidate, and you want me on the ticket, I’m willing to consider that.

I do think I’m the better candidate for Governor, and I’m not going to step aside. But if you persuade them, and you still want me on board, I’m open to it.
On the other hand, if Kristin wants to be on the slate with me as the Governor candidate and her as LG or Comptroller, I think they’re more likely to go along with that. But again, I don’t speak for the LPNY. You should talk to them.
My cell is [omitted] if you want to talk.
Warren

Stone, 4:24 pm: Warren
It doesn’t work that way. The party doesn’t speak with one voice. The idea that “they” make the decision is absurd. each person has a vote. Working together a majority could be derived. If you are un-interested in working for a desired result to nominate a strong ticket there is nothing to talk about.

My candidate has reservations about attending a convention where a list of eligible voters is withheld from candidates and a poll tax is charged to vote- yet the 1800 people registered at the BOE as libertarians as of 21-31-09 have no vote.
Be well. See you down the road.
Roger Stone

Me, 4:32: What do you have in mind?
From your answer, I assume the only acceptable deal is with Kristin as the Governor candidate. That’s not a deal I would make. Unless you’re willing to consider another alternative, there’s no point in talking further.
Warren

Stone, 4:48: Because of her tangential connection to spitzer no other race makes sense for her. She, unlike you, has a shelf life. The further from Spitzer downfall the less her ability to command coverage. No other race has any logic for her.

Were you to support her actively you could help win her the votes to be nominated. If you ran for AG I could get Paladino to let you ride on both his GOP ( you are a registered R) and Tea Party petitions- and thus get in the GOP primary for real and get a second line. I can have Paladino himself confirm this if you like.
Donovan is not a certain candidate for AG. You could end up the nominee.
In a 3 way race for Governor a woman candidate running on marijuana legalization gets 50,000+ votes and takes votes from Cuomo- not a Paladino. Prostitution would be de-emphasized in a fall campaign.
From my point of view you would help KD more as a candidate for LG making a nice balance M-F,downstate-upstate, non-lawyer, lawyer etc.
From your point of view a race for AG would be better for you if you would consider it.
R

Me, 4:59 pm: Paladino and I discussed the AG idea briefly. We also discussed the possibility of him at the top of the LPNY ticket. He didn’t seem interested then. It was over a week ago and there’s been no follow up. So he’s not interested.

Even if you and I made a deal like you suggest, there is no way to guarantee it would be honored down the road.
My hunch (and it’s only a hunch) is that Paladino drops out of the race by the end of May. He doesn’t think it’s winnable without the Conservative line, and he’s not going to get it.
By the way, you overestimate my influence with the LPNY.
W

Stone, 5:09 pm: Dont agree on Paladino. His statewide TV begins monday. He will enter the GOP primary. The CP will nominate Lazio but he can be slated for a judgeship to create a vacancy. If Paladino wins the primary they can switch nominees.
he has been a bit busy with his e-mails and all…………
Carl never had an interest in the LP nomination. Backing a candidate for AG is another issue. It costs the same to collect petitions for one candidate as two. Yes, you would have to rely on his word.

I never underestimate the power of active pursuasion by effective people in a sea of uncertainty.
[Larry] Flynt receptive to a Senate run if he can get clarified on state registration law- interesting potential for both campaign money and votes.

Me (to Paladino), 6:01 pm: Carl,
When we met last week, I did not have the impression that Roger Stone was on your campaign team. As you can see by the exchange below, he is speaking to me as if he has some sway over you – “I could get Paladino to let you ride on ….”
It was my impression that you were campaigning as someone different from the usual politicians. If you’re working with Roger Stone, in the way he describes, then you don’t seem that different to me.
I’m big on hunches. My hunch is that he does not speak for you. Some of the things he says here do not fit with things you said to me when we met.

Mainly, I thought you should know that Stone was throwing your name around like he has some control over you. You don’t strike me as someone who is so easily controlled.
My cell is [omitted] if you want to talk. I have a town board meeting tonight at 7:30 pm and it might go long, so tomorrow might be better.
I cc’d Jim, Rus, and Allen on this message because I’ve had some interaction with them over the course of the campaign and I thought they should know what’s going on.
Warren

Stone, 9:05 pm: Warren- do you really think this is clever ?……..you’re out your league- and gentlemen don’t share personal correspondence. You sir, are no gentleman-

R
Carl,
When we met last week, I did not have the impression that Roger Stone was on your campaign team. As you can see by the exchange …

Me, 10:08 pm: Not trying to be clever. You purported to speak for Carl. I met Carl and I’m checking to determine if you really do.
A gentleman? You threatened me twice in one of your early messages. We have different ideas of gentlemanly behavior.
Never claimed to be in your league. I’m a traffic lawyer and town board member. You play at much higher levels.
Warren

Stone, 11:21 pm:Warren

You make me question your ability to read.
My first missive with you contained two cold stone facts that you took as threats.
First that I would not put Ms Davis into an convention in which she is denied access to a list of voters eligible to vote and thus without a vote count. Without these she would simply not attend or compete. It would malpratice on my part to do so. Tough to win a victory over nobody.
Secondly that I felt she could petition her way on in a party with the word libertarian in the name based on case law and was happy to defend in litigation based on the Socialist workers v Socialist labor and Bloomberg” schools decisions. Since she will be running a Libertarian based campaign it only makes sense.
No threats. Just facts.
Polling would indicate that reform or other names test better.
No threat was stated or implied. She, like you ,is entitled to do what she likes.
She has a plan. Try a google news or blog search under Kristin Davis. Now try one under your name.

Russ Thompson is a good man and a key supporter of Carl but only Carl speaks for Carl.
Russ is doing a good job with Tea Party Folks. Ostrowski one of the best issue/idea/research guys I’ve seen.
But only Carl speaks for Carl.
Mike Caputo , Carl’s manager is a close freind and protege. But only Carl speaks for Carl.
I am highly confident Carl would see the wisdom in an alliance with you.
I am not at liberty to say more. My outlook is based on $80K worth of polling. Beating Andrew Cuomo requires a multi-candidate race . A rock-rib Republican on the libertarian line is not good for Paladino.
I still think a race for AG in the GOP primary is good for Carl, good for you , good for libertarians and good for a tea party line if one has to be formed. You could end up on three lines in a race with a WEAK liberal Eric Schneiderman.
My research on him is devastating.

We both know your current candidacy in the GOP primary is a bluff as the petitions will be an expensive pain in the ass. Doesnt have to be this way.
Jesus man ,wake up ! You could actually win this race.
Do you have a plan ? to get 50,000 votes? to win a GOP primary? to actually position yourself to win?
Where you are wrong is in saying Carl will drop in May. You dont know Carl. He isnt a quiter. He will win the GOP primary over Lazio. The guy has giant balls and will not be stopped despite his current problems. He gets better as a candidate every day.
Carl Paladino can win in my opinion. The stars have to line up. But they will.
I’ve copied the same folks you did so everyone can remain informed. Sure would be nice if no one used it to damage Carl’s campaign. The folks around Carl care about one thing..electing Carl and beating Prince Andrew.
Sundwall is a good man. You are lucky to have him. I think he sees the bigger picture.
Cordially

R

Note that Stone did not include everyone I had. One of the Buffalo Tea Party leaders was left out, and that may have been deliberate. But I forwarded to him.

Next is the first Paladino response:

Paladino, 4/21, 10:37 am: warren, roger stone is a longtime friend and associate of mike caputo, my campaign manager and a more recent friend of mine. he was one of the people who referred me to mike. i have and will continue to run my campaign with mike. i make all final calls. roger does not speak for me. nevertheless i do respect what he has to say. I really have no interest in the LP or the Independence party nominations. I told you that i promised mike long i would not seek any other line but his and the republican line. The bottom line is i intend to win the republican primary and have their line and the conservative line. It would be nice not to have to petition and get the endorsement alone and avoid a primary so time and resourses can be dedicated to taking Andrew down but it appears Cox has the party upside down right now.

Stone, 4/21, 5:03 pm: Dondero wont print your leaked correspondence
rookie move asshole
guess CP shoved it up your ass, too.
LOSER…………..

Me, 5:58 pm: We both know I’m a rookie. What I don’t get is why you’re wasting your time with me.
You are celebrating a tiny victory over a nobody.
If we played basketball, I’d clobber you. But it wouldn’t mean anything because I’m taller, younger and more experienced.
For some reason you’re trying to rub it in. I have no expectation of beating you. You’re supposed to be better at this.
W

Stone, 7:14 pm: The act of leaking a frank political discussion is not done in an atmosphere in which we both concluded we could not come to an ALLIANCE ( we even discussed taking another office and concluded it wouldn’t work)
I bore u no ill will at the time and said we’d see each other down the road in the campaign . it just didn’t work. It was not to be .
Frank talk is part of building a real campaign to win something. I think you could have enhanced your own position by wiring with us. I like Eric S as a straight – shooter no bullshit guy and like him.I could work with him.
I stated my case- we were both blunt – the was no room for agreement- alliance- collaboration.
Politics is about addition not isolations Make friends- seize opportunity build a network because – NO MATTER WHAT YOU WANT TO RUN AGAIN….it’s a buliding process

To each go our separate ways – with no animus on our part–re-made my arguments in why collaboration was benenificial and said adios- no threats.
I was prepared to move on. Do our own thing. Best person win. no hard feelings.
That’s proper political discourse… but leaking it AFTER THE FACT is for what purpose- to get your only google alert in my lifetime– what is the point ? pique ? momentary spotlight?
You are a lawyer- better than Dennis Vacco- you are a logical AG and and could have run in the GOP primary.
Ms. Davis is not a lawyer. It wasn’t an insult.

I made my case . you declined but counter offered we declined. Not hard feelings ……then
dumping our e-mail trail to numerous reporters AFTERWARDS is- other than colorful- what? cute ? vindictive ?
That is douche-bag behavior. Gents don’t do this unless a war was declared- just as a lawyer would do to another lawyer. It’s bad form. Is’nt done. Bad manners
I declared no war on you.
That’s why………R

Me, 8:55 pm: Apparently leaking is okay when you do it to someone but not when it’s done to you.

Or there are some rules for it. But I never got the rulebook.
Your world is too complex for me.

Stone, 9:04 pm: context councilor, context…………..

Stone, 9:08 pm: calling Kristin a whore actionable…………no evidence whatsoever.
Voters rank whores above lawyers anyway-

Michael Caputo (Paladino campaign manager), 9:52 pm: Warren: I must be tired; I sent an early version of my email by mistake. See below. Thanks, MC

Warren:

I believe you have the wrong idea or perhaps Stone left the wrong impression. I do wish you had called to ask me about all this. I would have told you that Carl has already endorsed Dan Donovan for AG. Attached you’ll find the PALADINO-WILSON-DONOVAN button we produced three weeks ago. A TV report showing us circulating them in Staten Island can be viewed here: http://bit.ly/9NGYCI. And you’ll see our press release here: http://paladinoforthepeople.com/news2.php?id=5&t=1
I’d say these are all pretty clear indications Stone has no business horse trading for Carl. Say what you will, but to me it really sounds a lot more like he was in it for Kristin.
Call me anytime Warren. I wish you all the best.
Sincerely,
MC

***

Michael R. Caputo
Paladino for the People
[phone omitted]

41 thoughts on “Warren Redlich: ‘Carl Paladino and Roger Stone’; Stone calls on Redlich to apologize for calling Davis a “whore”

  1. paulie Post author

    http://blog.timesunion.com/capitol/archives/25272/paladino-camp-stone-was-freelancing-we-want-donovan/

    Paladino camp: Stone was freelancing, we want Donovan

    Carl Paldino’s Campaign Manager Michael Caputo was pretty quick to smack down Roger Stone’s talk about Paladino running with the cross-endorsement of Warren Redlich for attorney general.

    Caputo — who was eventually cc’d into at least one e-mail exchange between Redlich and Stone which were obtained by the Times Union — starts by saying he wishes Redlich, a Guilderland Town Board member, had called him. Caputo sent along this PDF of a button supporting Staten Island District Attorney Dan Donovan for attorney general.

    “I’d say these are all pretty clear indications Stone has no business horse trading for Carl,” Caputo writes. “Say what you will, but to me it really sounds a lot more like he was in it for Kristin.”

    Caputo’s full letter to Redlich is after the jump.

    Warren:

    I believe you have the wrong idea or perhaps Stone left the wrong impression. I do wish you had called to ask me about all this. I would have told you that Carl has already endorsed Dan Donovan for AG. Attached you’ll find the PALADINO-WILSON-DONOVAN button we produced three weeks ago. A TV report showing us circulating them in Staten Island can be viewed here: http://bit.ly/9NGYCI. And you’ll see our press release here: http://paladinoforthepeople.com/news2.php?id=5&t=1

    I’d say these are all pretty clear indications Stone has no business horse trading for Carl. Say what you will, but to me it really sounds a lot more like he was in it for Kristin.

    Call me anytime Warren. I wish you all the best.

    Sincerely,
    MC

  2. Trent Hill

    I actually think Stone probably had the ability to do what he says he could do–he obviously DOES have a lot of influence on the Paladino camp. Redlich might mean well, but it probably would’ve been better for him to get a concrete offer, meet with Paladino to get his assurances, and run for AG.

  3. Trent Hill

    Also, I didn’t see the threats. Stone said they’d litigate over the word “Libertarian”–not that he’d sue Redlich personally. He also did not “threaten” that he wouldn’t come to the convention, he’s practicing sound politics–don’t go to a convention/primary you know you will lose.

    I think Redlich ought to make a deal. The LP of NY will clearly benefit and likely keep it’s ballot line. It would also likely rake in new money and new donors that it had never seen before AND Stone says they’re willing to under-write the petitioning! That’s a big deal.

  4. Libertarian Party is Immorality Party

    Wow.

    Are you serious.

    The manager for a crazy whore who is into beastiality is going to sue somebody because they called a whore a whore instead of “madam”

    That and they have a bunch of tea-baggers, pedophiles and perverts

    What a sick bunch. Sick, sick, sick.

  5. Trent Hill

    The biggest news in these emails, though, might be:

    “No I had told both Eric and Lora that we are seeing Larry Flynt today to feel him out about running on Kristin’s ticket for the U.S. Senate. Flynt only in NYC today. I suggest a phone call to see if there’s a reason to meet.
    Like to include Eric in the call.”

    and

    “[Larry] Flynt receptive to a Senate run if he can get clarified on state registration law- interesting potential for both campaign money and votes.”

    I’ll do a post tonight on just this if no one else gets to it before hand.

  6. Libertarian Party is Immorality Party

    Larry Flynt.

    That figures.

    He will fit in great with a party of prostitutes, beastiality, pedophilia, teabaggers, dope, abortion, surrender monkeys, porno perverts,

    Libertarians, shame, sick, sick, sick

  7. Thomas L. Knapp

    “he’s practicing sound politics–don’t go to a convention/primary you know you will lose”

    What makes you so sure Davis will lose?

    I’m hesitant to jump to conclusions from so far away, but I’m just finding it really hard to imagine LPNY falling for William Weld Part Deux, especially against a more well-known, more well-financed, more mediagenic candidate.

  8. Trent Hill

    As Stone already stated, she isn’t a whore. She’s a madam. Alleging someone is a whore without evidence is probably a crime, false accusations.

  9. Trent Hill

    Redlich is a member of Campaign for Liberty and has a lot of friends on the ground in the LP (though by no means is his victory 100%).

    I’m not saying Davis would certainly lose, I’m saying that Stone doesn’t want to RISK a loss by Davis at a small party’s convention. Frankly, I think the NYLP would be crazy to nominate some Republican Party city councilor over someone who can easily rake in tons of cash and is extremely likely to secure ballot access. The only question is, do they want to be associated with porn pushers and madams over city councilors?

  10. Gene Berkman

    Roger Stone objected to Kristen Davis being called a “whore” but did not apparently object to Warren Redlich calling him a “whore.” Roger gets points for honesty.

    Seriously, Roger Stone has been around for years, and I challenge anyone to name a candidate he managed who got elected.

    Stone was an advisor to Tom Golisano’s last campaign for Governor, and wasted millions of Golisano dollars on a pointless attempt to get the Conservative Party nomination, so that Golisano would have two lines. Pataki had already bought the Conservative Party leadership with patronage, and they stayed bought.

    Dealing with Roger Stone is a waste of time, unless you really don’t have access to other entertainment.

  11. Stormy

    You might want to read some of Warren Redlich’s sexist stuff at http://www.thespoof.com before you classify his as a just a “city councilor”. Also, you may want to read more of the Albany Times Union stuff where Warren Redlich admits he is a “cybersquatter”, “domain name pirate” taking Cuomo’s and Lazio’s names.

  12. Stormy

    But Tom Golisano and apparently Roger Stone did get a party line called the “Independence Party” which is the third largest line on the ballot in New York beating out the Conservative Party.

  13. Trent Hill

    There is nothing wrong with being a cyber-squatter. Lots of people make serious money doing it and I don’t see it as unethical at all.

    Stone has worked on several successful campaigns. Tom Kean’s campaign and relection campaign for Governor of New Jersey. Stone also worked on Reagan’s 80 and 84 Presidential elections.
    Stone has a long history in third party politics, both with Golisano and the Independence Party as noted above, and with John Anderson.
    He helped to “arrange for John B. Anderson to get the nomination of the Liberal Party of New York, a move that would help split the opposition to Reagan in the state”

  14. LibertarianBlue

    I knew something was fishy when Stone became tied to Ms Davis’ campaign this is just more evidence. If Stone is more interested in Paladino becoming Gov, I would love to hear his thoughts on Paladino giving to Hillary Clinton and other statist Democrats and Republicans.

  15. Trent Hill

    LibertarianBlue,

    Why does it matter who Stone REALLY wants to be Governor? Does anyone realistically expect Redlich to score more than 1% or Davis to score more than…5%? No. At least Stone is backing Paladino, a perceived outsider and someone who is actively working with third parties, over someone like Lazio or Levy.

  16. Stormy

    The normal cyberquatter buys the name, holds it, and then sells it to the highest bidder. Warren Redlich buys the name and puts up defamatory websites in that persons name to confuse the public. Warren Redlich is the only candidate that refuses to release his tax return. Why? Because it will show how hypocritical he is on his single issue salary of the NY Librarian and $100,000 pay limit.

  17. Gene Berkman

    Stormy @ #13 -Tom Golisano founded the Independence Party of New York, and was its candidate for Governor in 1994 and 1998.

    Golisano did have to spend millions of dollars to get the IP nomination in 2002 because Pataki had bought off the New Alliance Party (Newman-Fulani) faction that controlled the IP organization in New York City, and the Nemanites had given Pataki the IP nomination.

    Golisano used his wealth to defeat Pataki in the IP primry, but he was stuck with the Republican candidate for Lt Governor. I think Golisano could have done this without Stone.

  18. Stormy

    Gene Berkman @ 18 – I agree. But the goal is to get the votes to win a ballot line. It is delusional to think Warren Redlich can do this with his $10,000 campaign account. It takes name recognition, which Redlich doesn’t have, and millions of dollars which I doubt Redlich can raise. Grandpa Munster did it by a few thousand votes for the Green Party because of his celebrity status which drew a lot of media attention. The Greens lost it the next round and their candidate then had a lot more name recognition than Warren Redlich. Redlich is not a celebrity by any means. If he ran today for his Council seat, I’d be willing to bet he would lose.

  19. Warren Redlich

    Caputo’s response is phony. Stone was the first to respond to my e-mail to Paladino. How did Stone get that message?

    Stone uses the word “whore” on his own website. He’s the kid in the schoolyard who keeps changing the rules, and eventually no one will play with him.

  20. paulie Post author

    But the goal is to get the votes to win a ballot line. It is delusional to think Warren Redlich can do this with his $10,000 campaign account. It takes name recognition, which Redlich doesn’t have, and millions of dollars which I doubt Redlich can raise. Grandpa Munster did it by a few thousand votes for the Green Party because of his celebrity status which drew a lot of media attention. The Greens lost it the next round and their candidate then had a lot more name recognition than Warren Redlich. Redlich is not a celebrity by any means. If he ran today for his Council seat, I’d be willing to bet he would lose.

    Different dynamics.

    Whoever the LP nominates is likely to do better than usual because Cuomo is likely to maintain a very lopsided lead all the way to election day in November, and the climate is excellent for the Libertarian message, especially after the Ron Paul campaign has made it – and the L-word – more popular.

    Redlich’s status as an elected official – albeit a local one – will cause at least some voters to take him more seriously than they do some other LP nominees.

    His association with the Ron Paul campaign will draw in some votes, and it’s possible that the spread of new technology will make it somewhat easier to get the message out than it was 4, 8 or more years ago.

    I think he will be in some debates for the Republican gubernatorial primary, and although he is rather unlikely to win the Republican nomination, it will raise his name/issue recognition.

    So, 50k votes would be possible, although far from guaranteed. My prediction would be closer to 50k than 10k even if he does fall short.

  21. paulie Post author

    The normal cyberquatter buys the name, holds it, and then sells it to the highest bidder. Warren Redlich buys the name and puts up defamatory websites in that persons name to confuse the public.

    Frequently used and perfectly legitimate campaign tactic. And peanuts next to what Stone makes his stock in trade.

    Warren Redlich is the only candidate that refuses to release his tax return.

    Good for him. Why should he?

  22. David F. Nolan

    Paulie@22 – I don’t know if anyone has ever done a detailed study, but from my experience there is little correlation between the “lopsidedness” of a race and the % going to third-party voters. People tend to think that the number of voters going for third-party candidates rises and falls roughly in tandem with the perceived “gap” between the front-runners, but I’ve never seen any evidence to support that theory. Does anyone here know of any studies over large data-sets and with other variables controlled?

  23. paulie Post author

    Warren,

    Thanks, looked at those.

    I don’t think Stone’s objection is to the use of the word whore per se. He believes it does not apply to Kristin Davis, as he and she see what she did as being fundamentally different from what a whore does.

    That is, she did not have sex for money herself, she profited from others doing so.

    So they object to her being called a whore – not to the fact that you used the word whore.

  24. paulie Post author

    David,

    No study off hand.

    I was just going for the converse of the “wasted vote” miscalculation.

    That is, fewer people will be afraid that their vote will swing the election to their least-favorite duopolist if the gap between the duopolists is gigantic and no one is under any suspense as to who will win. Thus they may feel more free to make an alternative selection.

    I know that alt-party and independent candidates frequently get a lot less votes than their poll numbers due to being cowed by the “wasted vote” scarecrow.

    So, if the numbers actually indicate that all of that is not actually a real world phenomenon, then I’m simply wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time.

  25. Wiseburn

    clay,

    Redlich ran against Tonko’s predecessor in 2004 and 2006.

    Challenges of Ballot Access make it unlikely the LP will run someone against Tonko.

    Wise

  26. Warren Redlich

    Paulie,
    She’s been called a whore by Wonkette, the NY Post (“Ho”) and many more.
    E.g.: http://wonkette.com/413606/one-of-eliot-spitzers-whores-by-proxy-the-kristin-one-would-like-to-be-governor-of-new-york-now-please
    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/regional/item_CyqHd4xiytfzXFCMSGCo5J
    ” A source said Davis personally serviced Spitzer.
    “She personally interfaced with Spitzer a number of times” since 2003 before she became a madam, a source close to Davis said.”

    Why are they suddenly offended?

    As for the use of the term as applied to her, ask regular people. How many think the word “whore” is inappropriate as applied to someone who advertises herself as a madam.

    As part of the discussion, show them some of the images she’s put out of herself on the web:
    http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=kristin davis madam

    Try this blog post for an example:
    http://fisherwy.blogspot.com/2008/03/kristin-billie-davis-pictures.html
    She’s described as a prostitute. Strangely there are no comments objecting.

  27. d.eris

    “Calling Kristin a whore is both in bad taste and actionable. She was a madam, not a whore.”

    It’s not even politically appropriate to call her a whore, as she’s not a Republican or a Democrat either.

  28. d.eris

    Warren writes: “How many think the word “whore” is inappropriate as applied to someone who advertises herself as a madam.”

    Warren, you’re running for the GOP nomination, no? How many think the words “prostitute” or “whore” is inappropriate as applied to any Republican or Democrat for that matter?

  29. Thomas L. Knapp

    Quoth Warren Redlich:

    “She’s described as a prostitute. Strangely there are no comments objecting.”

    I agree — Stone is off-base for objecting to your use of the word “whore” to describe Davis. It seems reasonably accurate.

    On the other hand, has it occurred to you that Stone is baiting you into stomping on your own crank in public?

    Hint on the way many Libertarians think:

    “Prostitute/madam” is an honest and honorable profession.

    “Lawyer/politician,” not so much.

  30. d.eris

    @5: “The manager for a crazy whore who is into beastiality . . .”

    Well, what do you call having sex with a Democrat or a Republican?

  31. paulie Post author

    Warren,

    She’s been called a whore by Wonkette, the NY Post (“Ho”) and many more.
    E.g.: http://wonkette.com/413606/one-of-eliot-spitzers-whores-by-proxy-the-kristin-one-would-like-to-be-governor-of-new-york-now-please
    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/regional/item_CyqHd4xiytfzXFCMSGCo5J
    ” A source said Davis personally serviced Spitzer.
    “She personally interfaced with Spitzer a number of times” since 2003 before she became a madam, a source close to Davis said.”

    There’s a qualitative difference between what press says and what you, as a candidate running against her, say. Wonkette is an opinion blog(ger), and doesn’t pretend to be anything else. The Post cites an anonymous source. She/Stone would get nowhere trying to sue them, although I suppose they can claim media bias, and have…

    The DC: Any disappointments so far in your campaign?

    KD: Yes, the New York Post.

    The Daily News has been fair and reported my announcement as did Fox, CBS, AP, UPI, Reuters, the Philadephia News, Chicago Tribune, Reason.com, High Times … but not the New York Post. The editors constantly spike stories on my campaign. I have e-mail from reporters to prove it.

    Even Andrea Peyser scheduled an interview and canceled it. I was disappointed. I like her writing and her willingness to take on the politically correct.

    I guess they are invested financially with Ashley Dupree — their new “relationship advice” columnist. Too bad the b**** can’t write … or talk.

    Or is Rupert just anti-woman? Do I need to organize 20 Penthouse Pets to picket Murdoch’s apartment to protest the Stalinist-like refusal of the Post to acknowledge my existence. Do I need to chain myself in Col Allan’s office and call the TV stations? Stay tuned.

    I was on the [New York Post’s] Fred Dicker radio show in Albany. He was very sweet. Sounds kinda cute. He invited me to visit the studio and do the show live when I visit Albany. Hasn’t written my name once. But if Andrew Cuomo burped …

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/03/09/spitzer-madam-kristin-davis-busts-into-new-york-governors-race/3/

    Not that I think they’ll actually sue you either, or that they would win if they do, but I’m not surprised to see them try to make something of it. That’s politics.

    As for the use of the term as applied to her, ask regular people. How many think the word “whore” is inappropriate as applied to someone who advertises herself as a madam.

    As part of the discussion, show them some of the images she’s put out of herself on the web:
    http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=kristin davis madam

    I suspect that if you would have called the owner of a cotton-producing plantation a “cotton picker” he may have taken offense. Especially so if, at some point in his life, he had in fact had to make his living by getting his hands dirty picking cotton. I suspect that, as a recent madam/pimp who made millions, Davis may see herself as socially and/or intellectually superior to women who have to get their various body parts dirty by working as prostitutes, whether or not she was ever one herself. As Davis says in the same interview quoted above,

    The Daily Caller: So you’re running for governor of New York. How is this different than the stripper Stormy Daniels running for the Senate in Louisiana or Mary Carey running for governor of California?

    Kristin Davis: Those girls are porn stars and I am a businesswoman. They ran as a publicity stunts and I am running to make an important point and to further a reform, Libertarian-based agenda that is common sense and in which I think any New Yorkers privately agree.

    I’m not sure what the images are supposed to prove here. They show that she uses her sexuality to get attention, as do many women who are not actually sex workers.

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