Huffington Post on CPAC Straw Poll: Ron Paul wins Again! Gary Johnson tied for third place

Huffington Post  reports on the results of the Straw Poll for President at the Conservative Political Action Conference:

Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) came out on top in the much-anticipated 2011 Conservative Political Action Conference straw poll, according to Fox News.

Human Events confirmed that the Republican congressman won the vote before the results were officially announced. Here’s a breakdown of the numbers:

Ron Raul: 30%, Mitt Romney: 23%, Gary Johnson 6%, Chris Christie 6%, Newt Gingrich: 5%, Tim Pawlenty 4%, Michele Bachmann 4%, Mitch Daniels 4%, Sarah Palin: 3%, Herman Cain 2%, Mike Huckabee 2%, Rick Santorum 2%, John Thune 2%, Jon Huntsman 1%, Haley Barbour 1%

According to CNN, 3,742 votes were cast at the event held in Washington, DC.

Paul also emerged ahead of the pack in the CPAC straw poll at last year’s conference.

Full Story from  ww.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/12/cpac-straw-poll-2011-ron-paul_n_822412.html#s237999&title=Rep_Michele_Bachmann

Ron Paul is a Life Member of The Libertarian Party since 1987. He was the Libertarian candidate for President in 1988 and came in third. He has drawn support from a wide range of libertarians, conservatives, constitutionalists and antiwar activists in his 2008 bid for the Republican nomination.

Former New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson tied for third place with support from activists in the Republican Liberty Caucus and other libertarians. Gary Johnson is on the Advisory Board of Students for Liberty, a national college based organization with ties to The Cato Institute.

The San Francisco Chronicle has a story on the Straw Poll results @ http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov05election/detail?entry_id=82973

142 thoughts on “Huffington Post on CPAC Straw Poll: Ron Paul wins Again! Gary Johnson tied for third place

  1. Jill Pyeatt

    JC @ 1: I don’t think there’s any way Romney can win. Here are at least 3 reasons:

    1. The health program he started, which many see as a precursor to Obamacare:

    2. The Mormon thing would be a problem to many people (including me); and

    3. He just doesn’t have any personality. The candidate will have to have some charisma to win people over.

  2. paulie

    @ Gene – you should make the Libertarian Party connection more explicit in the article.

    @ Jill – The Mormon thing would be a problem to many people (including me)

    This would apply to a hypothetical Libertarian candidate as well?

  3. Jill Pyeatt

    paulie @ 5: Yes, I think so. Religion is too much of a core value for someone to accept something fundamentally different than their own, at least for many of us. If I recall correctly, the past few presidents have tried to present a fairly generic Christian presence. The rumors that Obama might be truly a Muslim has made him distrusted by many from the very start.

  4. Thomas L. Knapp

    “A Mitt Romney-Allen West ticket is perhaps the best ticket for the GOP in 2012.”

    Hmmm … I didn’t know the Robot/War Criminal constituency was that powerful.

  5. Mike B.

    A libertarian comes in first place and a libertarian leaning Republican comes in third place. Ron Paul and Gary Johnson respectively.

    I love it!

    The right-wingers and Fox must be beside themselves.

    They’re already downplaying the poll results.

  6. paulie

    Ron Paul for President with Gary Johnson for Vice President would make a good ticket.

    This is the Republican Party we are talking about. That’s not going to happen.

    On the other hand, they could be the Libertarian Party ticket if they wanted to be. But that’s not going to happen either, as that would be a big step down for them.

  7. paulie

    See other coverage in http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2011/02/third-party-cpac-roundup-21011/#comments

    Gary Johnson outlines differences, similarities with Ron Paul
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49366.html

    Gary Johnson introduced as the libertarian’s libertarian, talks about legalizing marijuana and massive government cuts
    http://www.openmarket.org/2011/02/11/cpac-2011-day-two/

    Progressives give libertarian Republicans props for booing Cheney, Rumsfeld
    Includes video; Cheney called war criminal, asked where’s Bin Ladin
    http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/theclog/2011/02/11/libertarians-spoil-donald-rumsfelydick-cheney-reunion-at-cpac/

    Lots of applause and support for Ron Paul throughout the conference
    http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/6284-ron-paul-delivers-cpac-address

    Many libertarian organizations there, conservatives call it a “takeover”
    http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2011/02/cpac-libertarianism-has-hijacked-the-gop.html

    Gary Johnson yanked off stage when he started talking about immigration freedom
    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/cpac-throws-pro-legal-pot-libertarian-off-stage.php

  8. Mike B.

    Did a copy and paste from the LRC Blog:

    YAF Expels Ron Paul
    Posted by Lew Rockwell on February 12, 2011 06:13 PM

    Young Americans for Freedom, the early neocon youth org founded by CIA agent Bill Buckley, has booted Ron Paul from its advisory board because he questions the military empire. Libertarians purged YAF in the 1960s to protest its endorsement of military slavery and other Pentagonian evils. (Thanks to Michael Ostrolenk)

    UPDATE Says the YAF national director, chickenhawk Jordan Marks:

    It’s a sad day in American history when a one-time conservative/libertarian stalwart has fallen more out of touch with America’s needs for national security then our current socialist presidential regime. Rep. Paul is clearly off his meds and must be purged from public office. YAF is starting the process by removing him from our national advisory board. Good riddance and he won’t be missed.
    _________________________________

    You gotta love those fascist warmongers at YAF!

    How come W.A.R. wasn’t at CPAC meeting?

  9. paulie

    Religion is too much of a core value for someone to accept something fundamentally different than their own, at least for many of us.

    I disagree with that approach. The question to me is can the individual govern without forcing their religion on others. The very last thing we want is the kind of religious warfare that has plagued Europe, the Middle East, etc for centuries. We must accept pluralism to live at peace.

    The rumors that Obama might be truly a Muslim has made him distrusted by many from the very start.

    I find the notions that Obama is a secret Muslim, secret Marxist, or not born in the USA to be lacking in evidence, and what’s more, they make the people that make them look bad and deflect from the real reasons why he is a terrible president.

    Among these, that he is a war criminal, as have been his last few predecessors in office.

    I am looking forward to Libertarian candidates, state parties, Boston Tea Party, and others calling for war crimes trials for all war criminals and all who are credibly accused of crimes against humanity. Right now, with Egyptian tyrant Mubarak stepping down, would be a good time to draw attention to that issue.

  10. paulie

    “A Mitt Romney-Allen West ticket is perhaps the best ticket for the GOP in 2012.”

    Hmmm … I didn’t know the Robot/War Criminal constituency was that powerful.

  11. paulie

    Mike – please don’t link your name to a website that does not exist. Just leave that box blank if you don’t want to link to anything.

  12. Jill Pyeatt

    paulie @ 15:
    “I find the notions that Obama is a secret Muslim, secret Marxist, or not born in the USA to be lacking in evidence.”

    For the record, I agree to all of those, paulie.

    “they…deflect from the real reasons why he is a terrible president. ”

    Excellent point, and I also agree.

  13. Porn Again Christian

    Huckabee was no doubt hurt by being too squeamish to be in the same room with openly gay people.

  14. John C Jackson

    I’m not that familiar with YAF. Is it a student group? Is the ability to write sentences in English a membership requirement?

  15. John C Jackson

    As far as Romney goes- I thought the personality/charisma thing was the one thing he supposedly had going for him?

    I’m pretty much an eccentric, slightly nerdy guy and I don’t normally see all the great superficial qualities that politican types normally have going for them or easily recognize the appeal the masses always see. So I just take their word for it. I always thought Romney was supposed to be the good-looking “Presidential” dude that had all thsoe superficial qualities that most people like.

  16. John C Jackson

    @ 28,
    Thanks. Yeah I did kinda know about them, but I was mostly saying that “statement” seemed very poorly written and surprised it would be released by any group with a membership age over 13ish and average IQ > 80.

  17. John C Jackson

    As a followup to my previous comment, I DO know enough about the superficial BS to know that Ron Paul is not electable.

  18. Porn Again Christian

    @ 31 see Andy @ 3

    @ 21 “boycott of several prominent conservatives, including Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee, most likely due to the attendance of gay Republican group GOProud. ” – so Palin and Huckabee both suck, as if we needed any confirmation…

  19. Porn Again Christian

    @ 29 he does have the presidential hair and the presidential teeth. But that is about it.

  20. John C Jackson

    @ 33 Well that kind of stuff is important to people for some reason. There are people who won’t vote for Ron Paul because of his posture or his voice or the type of shoes he wears. Romney has that ” look at me, I’m important and popular though there is no good reason for it” style.

  21. Jill Pyeatt

    PAC @ 24: “Huckabee was no doubt hurt by being too squeamish to be in the same room with openly gay people.”

    More and more good news this weekend!

  22. Jill Pyeatt

    “boycott of several prominent conservatives, including Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee, most likely due to the attendance of gay Republican group GOProud. ” – so Palin and Huckabee both suck, as if we needed any confirmation…”

    If this is true, I hate Sarah Palin even more, which I didn’t think was possible.

  23. paulie

    And here’s how it’s playing in WaPo:

    Ron Paul wins CPAC straw poll again
    Washington Post – ?28 minutes ago?
    Former New Mexico governor Gary Johnson, who devoted much of his CPAC speech to marijuana legalization, drew 6 percent of the vote.

  24. Bryan

    Ron Paul won last year too, it seems as if he or “his people” actually campagin for this rather un-scientific poll.

    If anyone thinks Paul has an icecubes chance in hell of getting the GOP nomination…your off your meds. I think it’s rather amusing that Johnson supporters are “playing up” his 3 place finish…he only had 6% of the vote tied with Christey of NJ…

  25. Bryan

    In other words…the GOP will not nominate a moderate, especially one who is opposed to the war, the war on drugs, AND sees nothing out of line with giving GLBT the same rights everyone else enjoys

  26. paulie

    It’s all about beating the expectations. Johnson did that. Ron Paul also improved on last year’s presence. See various articles I linked above all through the thread. See the WaPo play at 39. This is their lead for conference coverage, IE what they consider most important.

  27. Porn Again Christian

    To the extent anyone came out ahead of where they came in it had to be Johnson. They barely gave him speaking time and yanked him off stage with loud music in the middle of his speech, yet he got third place tie. And notice the Washington Post did not put Chris Christie or Mitt Romney in their lead.

    Ron Paul was expected to win after last year. Gary Johnson had very low expectations, so he comes out with the biggest gain in terms of momentum, name recognition, etc.

  28. Bryan

    I have heard a couple of people (in other blogs, news etc….) say that CPAC has a larger than normal young and activist bend. That is not your grand pa’s GOP. In the south, which they MUST have, Johnson nor Paul will do very well. Also Johnson must have been making a play as well, so his numbers shouldn’t be a huge surprise…this was posted at “cisionwire”

    During CPAC, several organizations sponsored events on behalf of Governor Johnson: Republican Liberty Caucus, Citizens Opposing Prohibition, Americans for Tax Reform, Log Cabin Republicans, Students for Liberty, Free and Equal Election Foundation, Young Americans for Liberty, Students for Sensible Drug Policy, MPP, and GoProud

  29. Bryan

    I don’t mean these comments to be “dissing” Johnson, hell, he’s just about the only Republican I would even consider voting for…I just don’t see him having any real chance.

  30. Porn Again Christian

    CPAC has a larger than normal young and activist bend. That is not your grand pa’s GOP. In the south, which they MUST have, Johnson nor Paul will do very well.

    This is true.

    Also Johnson must have been making a play as well, so his numbers shouldn’t be a huge surprise…this was posted at “cisionwire”

    During CPAC, several organizations sponsored events on behalf of Governor Johnson: Republican Liberty Caucus, Citizens Opposing Prohibition, Americans for Tax Reform, Log Cabin Republicans, Students for Liberty, Free and Equal Election Foundation, Young Americans for Liberty, Students for Sensible Drug Policy, MPP, and GoProud

    All well and good, but clearly it took the establishment media by surprise, so again, Johnson comes out ahead more than others there.

    Does that mean he is electable, or has any real chance at the nomination? No.

    But he has gained the most momentum of anyone by going there.

  31. Thomas L. Knapp

    JCJ@29,

    You write:

    “I always thought Romney was supposed to be the good-looking ‘Presidential’ dude that had all thsoe superficial qualities that most people like.”

    Yes … but so much so that it makes even ordinary people suspicious.

    He’s like a programmable android who’s exactly like whatever you want him to be like today — and when you’ve changed your mind about what you want next week he has too, one second behind you.

    It’s like the pod people from Invasion of the Body Snatchers occupied the body of Ted Danson.

  32. Andy

    “Among Republicans, the duo represents the libertarian-leaning faction in the party: They both oppose the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, support free trade and don’t even get them started about American marijuana laws. But having two candidates with such similar views on a ballot against President Obama would never be a combination for victory, Johnson said.

    “It’s gotta be bigger,” he said of the scope of the Republican ticket. “It has to be Republicans of all stripes and colors and then beyond the primary, it’s got to have a broad base among independents and Democrats also.”

    Often described as a “three-legged stool,” the Republican Party is generally comprised of a coalition of social conservatives, defense hawks and libertarians. A presidential ticket that represented just one of those simply wouldn’t cut it.”

    Any Republican ticket that falls outside the libertarian quadrant is essentially useless.

  33. Robert Milnes

    Paul & Johnson are NOT libertarians,you morons.
    What do you think would happen if these people showed up?: Hinckle,Ruwart, Redpath,Phillies,Knapp, Hogarth, Keaton,Benedict.
    Paul & Johnson are counterrevolutionaries.

  34. Sane LP member

    MORMONS are not cutting peoples heads off.
    MORMONS are not trying to sack the government. Gimme a break Jill. Jezz.

  35. Robert Capozzi

    Romney’s faith should not be an issue. It probably is one for some.

    I note that in 08, Romney shed a tear on MTP when this subject came up. It felt contrived to me. One had the sense that Romney’s handlers suggested that move as a means to show vulnerability and victimhood. Most deep-down view themselves as “victims,” so the tear might play with fence-straddlers on Romney…make them feel sorry for him since they seem sorry for themselves.

    ‘Course, the tear might have been spontaneous, but the result was likely the same. McCain, of course, did the same thing with his stay at the Hanoi Hilton.

    Ls tend to think they are immune to these sorts of emotional appeals; we tend to intellectualize our politics, to be “rational.” Personally, I’m not seeing the Mr. Spock approach working in a Capt. Kirk world!

    (Unfortunately, many Ls do seem to entertain one emotion: Anger. The rational-to-angry continuum seems unlikely to win us many friends.)

  36. NewFederalist

    Let’s see… M-O-R-M-O-N… M-U-S-L-I-M… oh,oh now I see. If six is a prime Fibbonacci number then the NWO has us by the short hairs!

  37. NewFederalist

    It is sarcasm. Both start with “M” and have six letters. Having “issues” with someone’s religion (or lack thereof) doesn’t resonate with me. My response was more tied in with #51 and #4. BTW, six is NOT a prime Fibbonacci number!

  38. Thomas L. Knapp

    Bob @ 52,

    “Romney’s faith should not be an issue.”

    1) Would you say that if he belonged to Aum Shinrikyo or Westboro Baptist instead of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints?

    2) For many people, Romney’s faith won’t be an issue. However it very much is an issue for a considerable part of the GOP base who are evangelical Christians and who consider LDS a faux-Christian cult. That’s a built-in handicap for Romney in terms of getting the GOP nomination.

  39. Robert Capozzi

    tk, no, I don’t think one’s individual faith — any faith — should be an issue. Baptists are pretty darned mainstream, so it doesn’t need addressing. Aum Shinrikyo is associated with recent sarin gas attacks in Japan, making it tough for Shinrikyo-ists to stand for office in the US.

    I don’t see LDS being anything like Aum Shinrikyo, especially now, especially in the US. Yes, some think it’s a cult, but then some think Roman Catholicism is a cult, too. I always encourage the small minded to reconsider their ways, whether it be their tolerance for those of other or no faith, or their politics.

  40. George Phillies

    I shall observe that I have friends who are Saints who live in Tulsa. They report that the local Baptist ministers with considerable frequency get together and agree to help ‘preach up a Crusade against the Mormons’. I am assured that the local Evangelicals oppose the Mormons because they think that the Mormons are (a) pagans and (b) polytheists. The implication is that some part of the local Republican base will not vote for Romney under any conditions. Readers who disagree might consider how likely it is that they will vote in a Republican primary.

  41. Robert Capozzi

    gp, yep, I would think OK might be a place where Mormon-haters would be disproportionately represented. In that one state, the 08 primary results were McCain 37%, Huckabee 33% and Romney 25%. It’s very possible that the OK base would not vote Romney in the primaries, possibly the generals.

    Haters are everywhere. What they hate varies.

  42. FYI! [More Don Lake]

    George Phillies // Feb 13, 2011:

    “……. Saints who live in Tulsa. They report that the local Baptist ministers with considerable frequency get together and agree to help ‘preach up a Crusade against the Mormons’. I am assured that the local Evangelicals oppose the Mormons because they think that the Mormons are (a) pagans and (b) polytheists ……..”

    [Lake: or are better at the recruiting game ??????]

  43. FYI! [More Don Lake]

    Robert Capozzi // Feb 13, 2011:
    “……. Baptists are pretty darned mainstream, so it doesn’t need addressing ………”

    [Lake: oh, come on, what planet do you reside upon? ‘Slightly right of Attila the Hun!’ How any Southern Baptists do you invite to an event where alcoholic beverages will be served? Not two or more —- they will tell on each other! (can also insert ‘Mormon’ as to sect)! Insane McClain felt it mattered enuf to drop a life time of non committal main stream church going to pretend to be a Baptist. Praise da lord and pass the ballot box!]

  44. Jay Matthews

    It’s incredible to see people here touting Romney, Huckabee, etc as presidential material. Candidates who are members of and/or have ties to the CFR or any other globalist organization have no business being president.

    Milnes: if any of those people showed up the public would say “Who the heck are these people?”

  45. Steven R Linnabary

    The Mormon thing would be a problem to many people (including me);

    And yet the first elected Libertarian mayor in the US was a Mormon (and a polygamist), Alex Joseph:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Water,_Ut

    Since Mr Josephs’ death a few years ago the town elected the openly gay Libertarian Willy Starr Marshall.

    PEACE

  46. Thomas L. Knapp

    Bob @ 57,

    “I don’t see LDS being anything like Aum Shinrikyo, especially now, especially in the US.”

    Neither do I (disclosure: I was raised Pentecostal/evangelical, converted to Mormonism and was baptized LDS at 18, am now associated with neither).

    My point was not that LDS is like Aum Shinrikyo. My point was that a person’s religious faith a) can have real-world political implications and b) will, in some circumstances, be a factor in people’s consideration of candidates.

    Perhaps instead of Aum Shinrikyo, I should have specified Church of Jesus Christ, Christian (the religious branch of Richard Butler’s Aryan Nations movement). Would that have made (a) more clear?

    As far as (b) goes, LDS is “mainstream” enough now that it probably wouldn’t be a huge factor in the general election. It carries a lot more weight in GOP caucuses and primaries because the evangelical Christian “religious right” constitutes a larger and more active portion of the GOP base than of the general population.

  47. paulie

    @ 56, 57 Westboro Baptist Church is not just any Baptist Church, it’s the Fred Phelps nutbags that carry “God Hates Fags” signs at military funerals, etc.

  48. Robert Capozzi

    tk, yes, I agree. In fact, all else equal, in 08, had Romney been a born, raised and practicing non-LDS Christian, he might have won the nomination. I’d say he was the stronger candidate than McCain.

    My view is if the GOP becomes completely dominated by these hater Christians (it’s contradictory, but then we’re all hypocrites to some extent), the LP could actually replace them as a major party. The GOP has just enough non-haters (or haters who hide their hatred) to maintain their historical momentum.

  49. Jay Matthews

    Paulie, that’s great news, but do you think the booth activity had more with:

    A. Wes Benedict being present
    B. It was a LP booth and there were a greater # of liberty-minded people present at CPAC.

    I say “B.”

  50. George Phillies

    I shall stick my neck out.

    It doesn’t really matter who the Republicans nominate, because barring truly bizarre events none of them have a significant chance.

    1) We are seeing extremely rapid economic recovery which has started to lap over into the job market.

    2) We have seen enormous increases in industrial production and efficiency here in the USA over the past decade and two, all of which will return to jobs and the economy.

    Jobs and the economy, and Obama gets the credit whether he deserves it or not.

    3) The Republican Party is falling apart at the seams. Note leading presidential candidates and potential candidates like Sarah Palin, Sharon Angel, Michelle Bachman and if we get really lucky like Glenn Beck, who most Americans will not support under any conditions. Note the Republican Tea Party wing, which voted against the Patriot Act and views defense budgets as eligible for cuts.

    3) We just finished the warmest decade in the recent history of the world, Arctic ice volume is the lowest in measured history, temperatures in northern Canada are up to 30F above average, and the only Republican who is not a climater (like birther or truther, only dumber) is Newt Gingrich, of whom it may be said that he supports traditional marriage so much that he has done it three times (and counting). Climatic reality by 2012 will be devastating for Republicans, except among their hard core zealots.

    With some luck, Obama will also be able to point at the third world and say ‘tyrannies replaced with free societies by peaceful means: Me – lots
    W – ZERO”

  51. paulie

    Paulie, that’s great news, but do you think the booth activity had more with:

    A. Wes Benedict being present
    B. It was a LP booth and there were a greater # of liberty-minded people present at CPAC.

    I say “B.”

    I’d say it had a lot to do with B. I’d also say it had a lot to do with A, since Wes (to my knowledge) is the one who came up with the excellent, attention grabbing idea presentation – the Republican Wall of Shame.

  52. Porn Again Christian

    IRT McCain and Romney, I am still surprised McCain won the nomination given his F minus rating from Gun Owners of America.

    Why didn’t his primary opponents slam him on that issue?

  53. Robert Capozzi

    gp70: The Republican Party is falling apart at the seams.

    me: Nothing would please me more, except, perhaps the Ds falling apart at the seams in tandem with the Rs. Still, this is an extraordinary statement in light of the 2010 election results.

  54. Steven R Linnabary

    IRT McCain and Romney, I am still surprised McCain won the nomination given his F minus rating from Gun Owners of America.

    republicans long ago stopped speaking about actual issues in their campaigns, with the nomination going to who’s turn it is.

    Reagan’s 1980 campaign was probably the last republican campaign that had contemporary issues as an avenue to the election. By 1984 his campaign had settled on a mere slogan, the focus group tested “It’s morning in America”.

    Why didn’t his primary opponents slam him on that issue?

    His primary opponents would then be open to having THEIR histories scrutinized.

    Besides, McCain was seen as a war hero. And hero’s are simply not questioned. Not by republicans.

    PEACE

  55. Jimmy Clifton

    I said Romney-West would be the best GOP ticket because they are both intelliegent and articulate. The ticket would be geographically balanced. Romney’s business experience would be an asset. West’s solid core values would appeal to the more right-wing of the GOP. Romney’s being Mormon should not hurt him but it will, unfortunately. I believe he would have won Iowa had it not been for the bigotry of Huckabee bringing Romney’s Mormonism to the forefront.

  56. Porn Again Christian

    @ 76 the are both scumbags, West is a war criminal, and who is this “we” that you speak of winning in Iowa?

  57. Gene Berkman Post author

    Actually Sarah Palin claimed a scheduling conflict with CPAC, and said she is glad GOProud was involved with CPAC.

    In 1988, When Ron Paul was running for President on The Libertarian Party ticket, everyone I met in Young Americans for Freedom supported him. YAF has declined since then, and presumably the current leadership sees an opportunity to send out a fund-raising letter based on expelling Ron Paul from their advisory board.

  58. Gene Berkman Post author

    George Phillies @ 66 – actually most members of The John Birch Society support individual freedom, limited government, capitalism and non-interventionist foreign policy. Why diss them?

    George Phillies @ 70 – “an extremely rapid economic recovery?” I don’t see it. Unemployment is above 9% nationally, the trade deficit continues, the federal government is running massive budget deficits, and the dollar is in decline against all major currencies.

    The Republicans probably can’t beat Obama because they don’t have a candidate who can win, but otherwise Obama would be an extremely weak positin.

    One more thing George – how do you expect libertarians to take you seriously when you spend more time attacking libertarians than attacking statists?

  59. paulie

    Actually Sarah Palin claimed a scheduling conflict with CPAC, and said she is glad GOProud was involved with CPAC.

    Hmm, that contradicts what I read earlier, but you’re right:

    http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/refudiating-does-sarah-palin-support-gay-rights/politics/2011/02/09/17322

    Nevertheless:

    Sarah Palin is against same-sex marriage
    Sarah Palin is against spousal benefits for same-sex couples
    Sarah Palin is on the record against “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” repeal

    Sources for all that at the same link above.

  60. George Phillies

    Unemployment is now at 9 %, not above it.

    “Personal consumption expenditures” (that’s what all the private people in the country put together spend out of their income) are now higher than before the recession started.

    Industrial production in the USA is far higher than five years ago.

    The stock market went up almost 30% last year, and if you had joined me in going back into the stock market in June 2009, you would now be ahead 60-70%.

    Home prices are coming down, making houses more affordable for millions of Americans.

    The dollar buys more and more in foreign markets, meaning that you have to spend less and less on foreign goods.

    The trade deficit — we trade their goods for our paper.

    If you want to rant conspiracy nonsense about the CFR, expect to be called on it.

    Obama gave us Obamacare, supported by nearly half of all Americans, and a quarter of the opponents are against it because it did not go far enough.

    Yes, Obama will have weaknesses, like the perpetual wars against Iraq and Afghanistan, but his Republican foes can’t exploit those issues.

  61. Fun K. Chicken

    @ George Phillies (and others too I suppose, but Phillies in particular)

    If you were in Congress or US President right now and were submitting a budget proposal, what percent of the budget would you cut?

    Would be across the board?

    If not, how much would you cut out of what?

  62. Robert Milnes

    @ 62 & 63, yes, Wes was reportedly present. I stand corrected.
    As soon as I submitted that I realized my mistake. Oh well.
    The point was they wouldn’t get invited. Would never mske it up to the podium.

  63. LibertarianGirl

    “I am assured that the local Evangelicals oppose the Mormons because they think that the Mormons are (a) pagans and (b) polytheists…”

    me_ i grew up Mormon and according the LDS scripture , Mormons are 1/2 Jewish and half Christian… our Priesthoods are called the Aaronic and MELQUISEDEC , and supposedly we come from the lost tribe of Ishmael . Of course most Jewish folk are like WTF ?? ROFL

    anyways , we love us some Jesus too, but not crosses , cause thats freakin morbid , just sayin…

  64. Bryan

    @84 How about….
    Cut DoD 180 Billion (about 25%)
    Eliminate FBI “counter intelligence” 2.7 Billion
    Cut Arms sales/”state spending” 5-26 Billion
    Eliminate “homeland security” 54.7 Billion….

    For a savings of 242.4 Billion-263.4 Billion….

    That would be a nice start

  65. Gene Berkman Post author

    Paulie @ 82 – I am no fan of Sarah Palin and I am sure you are right on her backward stands regarding Gay Rights issues. I just think it is important to be accurate

    George @ 83 – unemployment is 12.5% in California, and 9% unemployment nationwide is an economic disaster. In 1964 unemployment was 5% – and LBJ began the big government disaster known as the Great Society in order to bring it down to 4% – that was the goal, with 4.6% the lowest.

    Obama is not going to run on the claim that “look how good things are, only 9% of Americans are out of work.”

    G.P.:” Obama gave us Obamacare, supported by nearly half of all Americans, and a quarter of the opponents are against it because it did not go far enough.”

    Actually most observers credit Obamacare as a major factor in the Republican victory for the House of Representatives. This is parallel to 1994, when Republicans took control of Congress in a backlash against Hillarycare, which did not even pass.

  66. Joey G. Dauben

    LP U.S. Senate paper candidate Alex Snitker assaulted the Republican Liberty Caucus national chairman at the RLC national convention at CPAC, by the way.

    Dave Nalle has more, but there were witnesses.

  67. Bryan

    Oh…and we need to address the interest payments on “previous wars”. We include 114.8-454.2 Billion for that every year, and the big number is only covering about 96% of it.

  68. Steven R Linnabary

    Wow…George, your comments in # 83 read like a democrat party talking points memo!

    First, that 9% unemployment only refers to those receiving unemployment benefits and does not include those whose benefits have run out.

    Industrial production may well be up…with FAR fewer people working in those same jobs than just a few years ago. Mechanization has destroyed many jobs that were around a generation or more ago and even more recently there has been a computer revolution. Both of which have made overall production go up.

    Finally, your use of dollar prices to determine stock worth is inane as we can see that the dollar is worth far less than it was just a few years ago. It simply takes far more paper dollars to buy the same goods than it did a year ago or in 2009. The fact that our dollar is falling less rapidly than other currencies is why we can buy more foreign goods.

    I actually agree with your point # 3 in comment # 70. The best thing to happen to the LP is the steady destruction of the republican party.

    But then you go into a silly conspiracy rant about global warming. Personally I find such conspiracy talk to be pointless diversions, whether you are talking about the CFR or Obama’s birth certificate. And it is damaging to your (and my) credibility.

    PEACE

  69. Sane LP member

    George Phillies best days were about 10 years ago. The reality of the situation and new generation of libertarians have moved on . Being mad at everything, stirring up discontent everywhere, and attacking fellow libertarians, aint’ working. I hear the words “trust” in my head.

  70. Pingback: Cheney, Rumsfeld, called war criminals at CPAC | Independent Political Report

  71. paulie

    Still not finding anything on Nalle/Snitker story. Anyone know anything, or was Joey making things up, or what?

    Did find this from Rick Sincere

    http://www.examiner.com/libertarian-in-charlottesville/gary-johnson-wins-rlc-straw-poll-places-third-cpac-poll

    Former New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson handily won a presidential straw poll conducted at the Republican Liberty Caucus (RLC) national convention on February 12 in Arlington, Virginia, with more than double the votes of second-place finisher Ron Paul and six times the total of Newt Gingrich, who came in third.

    In results announced the same day at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Washington, Johnson was the top “second choice” presidential candidate of CPAC attendees from around the country, although he took third place in the widely-reported “first choice” straw poll, behind Texas Congressman Ron Paul and former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney.

    Johnson took 6 percent of the “first choice” votes and 15 percent of the “second choice” votes, ahead of New Jersey Governor Chris Christie and 12 others.

    Issue questions

    Although the RLC straw poll did not include questions about issues, the CPAC straw poll asked several.

    In a question about core political beliefs, 84 percent of CPAC attendees answered, “My most important goal is to promote individual freedom by reducing the size and scope of government and its intrusion into the lives of its citizens.”

    “Reducing the size of Federal Government” was the most important goal of 36 percent of CPAC attendees surveyed, with “reducing government spending” the top choice of 16 percent of them. Reforming Social Security, the war in Iraq, reducing health-care costs, and “protecting traditional marriage” each placed last among important issues to the conservative activists, with 1 percent of those surveyed calling them “most important.”

    RLC officers

    In other business at the Republican Liberty Caucus convention, Dave Nalle of Texas was re-elected chairman of the organization’s board of directors, with Aaron Biterman of Virginia re-elected as vice chairman and Jeff Hellenberg of Florida re-elected as secretary. Longtime RLC activist Bill Westmiller of California was defeated in a bid for re-election as treasurer by Florida RLC member Matt Nye, although Westmiller was elected as an at-large member of the board of directors.

    Shelby McCurnin, who founded the Central Virginia RLC chapter, was one of six people elected as an alternate at-large member of the national board of directors.

    Gary Johnson addressed the RLC convention banquet after the straw-poll results were announced.

    Other prominent speakers at the convention included investment analyst and author Peter Schiff, freshman Congressman Justin Amash (R-Michigan), New York City Councilman Dan Halloran, Georgetown University law professor Randy Barnett, Cato Institute executive vice president David Boaz, and 2010 congressional candidate John Dennis, who challenged former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi in her home district in San Francisco, California.

  72. StevenWilson

    I am proud of what happened at the convention. Libertarians and RLC members finally got the clue that Ron Paul is the only american in that field.

    A clear message hopefully picked up by the LP. No more pretenders running for office.

    John Jay Myers in 12!

  73. John C Jackson

    @ 62

    I didn’t read anyone here “touting” Romney as “Presidential.” If that was in reference to my comments, I was dealing with the REALITY-based superficial qualities that actual voters actually, you know, vote for.

    Ron Paul is seen as “less Presidential” or “electable” than a lot of others for many reasons. This has nothing to do with the quality of his views. If you think electoral politics is based on the quality of policy positions, you don’t know much. I’ve lived through several elections. I’ve observed how things actually shake out. I don’t live in some Ron Paul worshipping fantasyland. His actual support is considerably less than his strawpoll and online poll numbers.

    Most people who affect the outcome of elections are not political nerds and hardcore libertarian/third party supporters.

    The person(s) deemed “Presidential/electable” and ultimately winning a nomination will definitely be pieces of shit, but that doesn’t make someone like Ron Paul or Gary Johnson automatic contenders based on the sheer power of their goodness.

  74. paulie

    Dauben sends this along. From Nalle’s FB.

    At this point I have not determined that Snitker had anything to do with it. Some other guy ran up behind Nalle, punched him in the arm and claimed it was a message from Snitker, apparently:


    Dave Nalle
    Snitker’s thuggery says much about his ego and the sad state of the LP as nonaggression joins openoborders and free speech as lost values.
    8 hours ago via HootSuite · LikeUnlike · · View Feedback (17)Hide Feedback (17)

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    Jason Hellenberg Details on thuggery please!
    8 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading…
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    Parker G. Ward Hey Dave what happend?
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    Dave Nalle
    You missed that? Jason, while you were getting the bellhop to help with the boxes some short dude ran up to me and said “Alex Snitker says hi” and punched me in the arm. Before he ran off he said that he’d been told to punch several other… people at CPAC too.

    Bizarre.See More
    8 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Parker G. Ward WOW Dave I didn’t know members of the Libertarian Party are so, mean and harsh, I am glad I am in the GOP now.
    8 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading…
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    Jason Hellenberg WTF. Oh well. Snitker is a tool endorsed by a tool.
    8 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading…
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    Dave Nalle It wasn’t mean, Parker. I think it was intended as a prank. Those who know me know that getting punched in the arm isn’t likely to phase me, but it was a strange choice of forms of expression.
    7 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Parker G. Ward Oh I didnt see punched in the arm all I saw was punched. My stupidity reading 50 million things at once haha
    7 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Mark Glover
    Punched vs Punched in the Arm really does not matter, legally.

    Short dude should have been arrested. Snitker (whoever that is) needs to be questioned regarding his involvement.

    Both should be educated on the merits and consequences of the …Zero Aggression Policy.See More
    7 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading…
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    Earl Cooley III A yummy pie in the face is so much classier.
    6 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Erik Setzer Oh, that was Marcus, an RLCer from Florida, who delivered the “punch.” Marcus is also the guy who nominated Matt Nye for his third officer position and just made a joke of it. You should ask him about his “campaign team” from 2010, I got to meet them over lunch one day.
    6 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Erik Setzer
    I won’t comment on Alex. He might still have me blocked for my comments toward some individuals he knows and their destructive actions, but I don’t have a really negative feeling toward him (I’ve talked to him a few times in person, both in… Jax and Orlando).

    Dave, you were aware Alex was recruited into the RLC in Florida?See More
    6 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Erik Setzer This is why I love being in Florida. It’s never dull around here.
    6 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Chris McCubbin So the guys from Jackass are running the Floriday RLC now?
    3 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Dave Nalle Snitker is with the Florida Libertarian Party, not the RLC.
    2 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Chris McCubbin ?”Alex Snitker” even sounds like one of the guys from Jackass. “Hi, I’m Alex Snitker, and I’m going to attack a Republican with a dwarf!”
    about an hour ago · LikeUnlike
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    Dave Nalle Now presented that way it sounds funnier.
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    Erik Setzer Dave, I was there when he signed up as an associate (non-voting) member. Beyond that, I’ll have to tell you privately, as even the “new” (same old) regime in Florida doesn’t want anything remotely negative said about NEF or FL.
    about an hour ago · Like

  75. Bryan

    All the Bulls$#it about “fiscal responsibility”….

    Face it…as long as we are a Militarist Society WE ARE BROKE!

    In the post above I pointed out a way to cut the budget by over 200 Billion Dollars. No cuts to “social services”, hell it doesn’t even touch VA or pension money….200 Billion…..I only hope that “Weepy John” Boehner would take a look at the real cuts that could be made….

  76. Bryan

    Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are the only hope that the gop MIGHT adopt a program that doesn’t include blowing some third world nation to smithereens……

  77. Andy

    “If anyone thinks Paul has an icecubes chance in hell of getting the GOP nomination…your off your meds.”

    The GOP is far to corrupt to allow anyone like Ron Paul to gain its Presidential nomination.

    This is why Ron Paul supporters need to have a backup candidate who runs under a minor party banner or as an independent.

    I would like to see this backup candidate run under the Libertarian Party’s banner. The LP could have done this in 2008 but unfortunately the ball was completely dropped. Nobody ran what I’d call an effective campaign for the nomination. Then Bob Barr ended up winning the nomination at the LP National Convention. Not only was Barr’s campaign ineffective, a lot of potential supporters were actually turned off by Bob Barr.

    The Libertarian Party can’t afford to make the same mistakes that were made in 2008 again in 2012.

    Ron Paul’s campaign for the Republican nomination in 2008 created a big wave for liberty, but the LP was not prepared for this wave and so 2008 did not live up to the record setting year that it could have been for the LP.

    The Libertarian Party needs to get its act together for 2012 or the party is going to miss that wave again and be left behind in the dust.

  78. Robert Capozzi

    a107: This is why Ron Paul supporters need to have a backup candidate who runs under a minor party banner or as an independent.

    me: Can you expand on what you mean here? What might this look like?

    It seems that campaigns are highly opportunistic enterprises. The team develops the message, focuses on a strategy, hits the road, makes adjustments. Having a Plan B candidate mixes their motive. They have to be really focused on the nomination, so having a Trojan Horse that will bolt at the “right” time seems to be asking a lot of the campaign.

    Given that Paul endorsed Baldwin makes this even more unlikely in my mind.

    It is true that the LP was frozen in 08, like linebackers thinking it was a run that turns out to be a fake and a pass. The LP didn’t handle the Paul factor optimally, I’d agree, with 20/20 hindsight.

    I’m starting to think that Paul might actually run again. The lure of the attention he’s getting might prove too appealling. I could imagine he’d endorse Johnson at some time during the race, to again return to Congress.

    Johnson also supported Baldwin, so again the LP should proceed as if these fellow travelers will not move to our camp.

    So, it strikes me that the LP should assume that our candidate will be our candidate. But this is all a high-quality problem.

  79. Robert Capozzi

    fun84: If you were in Congress or US President right now and were submitting a budget proposal, what percent of the budget would you cut?

    me: As an elected L, one would want to push the envelope with a one-year budget, but also remain in the realm of possibilities. The one-year aspect is unfortunate but important, since as an L I would like to see the budget reduced steadily over time.

    I’d probably pick a number for reductions north of Rand Paul’s $500 billion…perhaps $750b. I’d consider making those cuts across the board discretionary and military to avoid the other side’s chattering about specific line items, e.g., job training. I’d address SS and Medicare separately.

    As an L, I can’t think of a government program that doesn’t need cutting, so from my perspective the across-the-board %s is the most responsible way to do it. If the Rs and Ds think one program should be spared, then they’d need to find offsetting dollars in other programs.

    One L in Congress would be in a unique situation. The normal considerations of party discipline would not apply. They would be free to speak his/her mind, and not fixate on re-election.

    Might be fun were it to happen!

  80. LibertarianGirl

    JESUS CHRIST JOEY , have some editorial responsibility… theres no way you can get what you said outa that FB exchange, for fucks sake dude… your like a tabloid

  81. Fun K. Chicken

    Actually there is another facebook exchange where Joey actually admits that he is going to make this incident into something it wasn’t.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Dave Nalle
    Got to wonder why failed LP candidate Alex Snitker thought it was cool to send a diminutive thug to CPAC to punch people he doesn’t like.
    17 hours ago via HootSuite · LikeUnlike ·

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    Robert White what? That’s not cool. Use of force and all that.
    17 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Joey G. Dauben I hope there’s YouTube footage…
    17 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Cliff Johnson ??
    17 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Eric Wall I want to hear more…
    17 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Jason Hellenberg ????
    17 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Robert Hayes Hmm, wild parties, hearty breakfasts, and midget fighting. Dave, you have convinced me. Next year I will do my best to attend CPAC.
    17 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Ambree Williams-Coleman ???? Is there a link to this story somewhere? :-\
    17 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Chris Wright And people wonder why folks don’t support folks like that.
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    George Randall Leake III personally I’m more interested to hear what the RLC take is on Mubarak–I certainly hope you guys don’t agree with Ann Coulter’s sentiment that “there should be more jailed journalists” in Egypt
    17 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Dave Nalle George. Coulter could go there and get jailed and that might be ok.
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    George Randall Leake III Glad we agree on that too–so none of the people cheering her at CPAC were the same people cheering for Ron Paul?
    17 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Dave Nalle At the end of the RLC convention some short dude ran up to me and said “Alex Snitker Says “Alex Snitker says hi” or something like that and punches me in the arm.
    16 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    George Randall Leake III WTF?! What is this, Junior High School?
    16 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    George Randall Leake III next thing he’ll be threatening to give you a wedgie or a swirly?
    16 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Dave Nalle
    It was mostly just strange. It’s not like he attacked me seriously or anything, just super childish as you point out. Happened too fast for anyone to get video. Maybe we should have reenacted it.

    Gigi Bowman’s t-shirt was an appropriate… and humorous response to my past criticism of Libertarians. This incident was just juvenile.See More
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    Victor Wilhelm Jr. Sounds like an opportunity to get some training in. Not going to miss CPAC next year for sure now…
    16 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Erik Setzer
    Ok, I don’t know how hard Marcus hit you, Dave, but I guess it was a lot harder than I thought. Maybe it’s easier for me to see the humor because I know Marcus and Alex, and I know that they both are prone to doing some “strange” things tha…t may or may not be humorous depending on who you ask.

    Again, I don’t know how hard he hit you, but this seems a bit much for an obvious prank.

    (But now I have ideas, and I know Marcus is for sale. This could be fun.)See More
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    Erik Setzer Dave, if I can get Alex and Marcus both up to Jax and borrow a good camera, do you think you could get over here and we could set up a full reenactment from the point of the idea being hatched to it’s coming to fruition? 😉
    15 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Erik Setzer Dave, if I can get Alex and Marcus both up to Jax and borrow a good camera, do you think you could get over here and we could set up a full reenactment from the point of the idea being hatched to it’s coming to fruition? 😉
    15 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Lynn Foster He probably thinks just because you’re big, he has to hit harder for you to feel it.
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    Dave Nalle You guys have seen me. Obviously Marcus didn’t hurt me or anything, kit’s just an odd way to express an opinion.
    14 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Jason Fischer putting aside that fact that its battery…that is pretty funny
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    Jeffrey A. Larson Heh-heh. Heh-heh. Dave got punched by a dwarf. Heh-heh.
    9 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Dave Nalle At least he was tall enough not to punch me in a more sensitive area.
    9 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Jeffrey A. Larson How high did he have to jump to hit your arm?
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    Dave Nalle He wasn’t actually a dwarf, more like 5′ 4″ or so.
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    Joey G. Dauben Dave, don’t get mad at me, but I’m milking the “Snitker Punch” for media purposes.
    8 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Dave Nalle Exploitative journalism is a lifestyle choice, Joey.
    8 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 person

  82. Fun K. Chicken

    Instant replay:

    Joey G. Dauben Dave, don’t get mad at me, but I’m milking the “Snitker Punch” for media purposes.
    8 hours ago · LikeUnlike
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    Dave Nalle Exploitative journalism is a lifestyle choice, Joey.
    8 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 person

    The call on the field stands. Half the distance to the goal, automatic first down.

  83. LibertarianGirl

    Joey your credibility is severely lacking and you run how many newpapers??

    thats underhanded and sensationalism , lemme check , yep your perfectly suited for mainstream journalism…lol

  84. paulie

    Speaking of Dave Nalle he sends this

    Friends of Liberty:

    This is it. We have less than 8 hours to get the attention of Congress and demand that they stand up for the restoration of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution.

    Although the renewal of key provisions of the PATRIOT Act was defeated last week when it was brought up for an early vote, that happened primarily because House rules required that it pass by a two-thirds majority under those circumstances. That narrow defeat of the renewal was only a temporary victory, because the bill remained eligible for passage under the regular rules and with a simple majority vote, and that vote is scheduled for this evening at 6:30. It’s the only bill on the House docket and there will be only 1 hour for formal debate and no amendments.

    This means that most of this day will be dedicated to giving you an opportunity to contact your Congressman and tell him that you like having privacy rights, don’t want the government monitoring your internet and phone conversations, and think that search warrants obtained through proper procedures are a good thing, not an inconvenience.

    Three key sections of the PATRIOT Act are up for renewal. They provide for roving wiretaps without true search warrants, government access to private business records, searches of private property without notice and covert access to electronic data without any due process or oversight. Together they give the government unprecedented access to your private information without going through the Constitutionally mandated legal processes which are supposed to protect your privacy. They were passed with a requirement that they be reviewed and renewed regularly because at the time the Congress realized that they were fundamental attacks on individual liberty and violations of our Constitutionally protected rights under the 4th Amendment. The mood at the time was one of fear and anger and some people felt that the threat of terrorism justified such extreme measures. Today you need to ask yourself whether this dreadful compromise of your rights on the basis of nothing but fear was justifiable.

    Congressman Justin Amash (R-MI) expressed his concerns about renewing these PATRIOT Act provisions when he voted against them last week, writing:

    “Like many Republicans and Democrats concerned with protecting civil liberties, I have serious reservations about the USA PATRIOT Act provisions up for renewal. The business records provision allows the government to order the production of ‘any tangible things’ — e-mails, phone logs, and even library records. Worse still, the company turning over the records to the government is forbidden from telling the records’ owner of the order. Likewise, the Act’s roving wiretap provision goes far beyond a similar provision in criminal law. It may allow the government continuously to monitor pay phones or public computers, even when a suspect is not using the devices. The breadth of the provisions raises serious Fourth Amendment concerns in my mind, and I cannot support them as currently written.”

    The Bill of Rights exists for a reason and it has become clear that there is no threat to this nation from terrorism or other sources which justifies giving up the protections of the 4th Amendment. The only real target of this misguided legislation seems to be the citizens themselves, and that kind of government meddling and intrusion is unacceptable in a free society.

    You only have hours to act. Please call your member of Congress, or your whole state delegation, using the convenient information on ContactingtheCongress.org

    . Tell them it’s been long enough and you want your rights back.

    In Liberty,
    Dave Nalle
    National Chairman
    Republican Liberty Caucus

  85. Mubarak Resigns!

    @89 Obama is not going to run on 9% unemployment….

    That was my point. He is not running now. He will run on unemployment in Summer-Fall 2012.

    If the election were now, and the Republicans had a a sane candidate…I’m being picky, aren’t I…he would be in really deep trouble, though he has structural advantages.

    But he will be running on employment *next summer*, and he has a fair chance that that number will be 6% or 4%. Furthermore, groups that are really badly off are not normal Republican voters, and are plausibly going to be convinced that this was the Bush Republican depression.

  86. Robert Capozzi

    It should be said that Benedict should be credited for the LP attending CPAC and NOT be savaged (that I’ve seen) by “left L” complaints. Previous management, I see to recall, got a raft of garbage when the LP participated in this event.

  87. Robert Capozzi

    Actually, Paulie, I’m not a big fan of the word “shame”…but then it’s my practice to ask What would Rodney do? 😉

  88. paulie

    @119 I’ll grant you that one.

    Unfortunately, this would have been too long for a headline:

    “We’ve already heard some talk about the Republican ‘three-legged stool.’ My view is, Republicans are wrong on foreign policy, they’re wrong on social policy, and they’re lying hypocrites on economic policy. Their stool has no legs.”

    Republican Wall of Shame got attention.

    Sometimes shame is better than force as a way to curb bad behavior.

    I’m for keeping things positive – but we are dealing with massive dysfunction, and it has to be confronted. War crimes, corporate bailouts of trillions, the homeland security state on speed and steroids, the 20 year war in Iraq and the 10 year war in Central Asia, entitlements and government debt spinning out of control, these are advanced signs of malignancy.

    A little shame now may be better than a potentially bloody revolution later, I think.

    Now all we need is to confront the Democrats with the equivalent message to “We’ve already heard some talk about the Republican ‘three-legged stool.’ My view is, Republicans are wrong on foreign policy, they’re wrong on social policy, and they’re lying hypocrites on economic policy. Their stool has no legs.”

    In the case of the Democrats that message is: your president and the congressional leadership of your party are perpetuating and worsening the Bush/Republican wars, the Bush/Republican assaults on civil liberties, and the Bush/Republican corporate bailouts. And what is more, you kept right on doing that when you had the Presidency and control of both houses of Congress.

    The Democrats aren’t delivering peace, civil liberties or social justice. The Republicans are not delivering economic liberty or small government.

    Over the past 20 years, we have had divided governments with Republicans as President and Democrats as President, and with Republicans in control of Congress and Democrats in control of Congress. We’ve had unified governments where Democrats controlled both the presidency and congress, and unified governments where Republicans controlled both.

    And no matter which of those arrangements we had, peace, civil liberties, economic liberty and social justice all keep going down the tubes.

    By all means, let’s keep taking that message to the Republicans. Let’s take it to the Democrats too.

    Even if we have to shame them a little.

  89. Michael H. Wilson

    “Republicans are wrong on foreign policy, they’re wrong on social policy, and they’re lying hypocrites on economic policy.”

    As the LP locals get ready to do spring and summer outdoor events we need to have this as part of the message.

  90. Robert Capozzi

    p120: A little shame now may be better than a potentially bloody revolution later, I think.

    me: Yes, I agree. I view the Rs and Ds both as lost and confused, perhaps dangerously so.

    When children play with matches, by all means, take them away.

  91. Gene Berkman Post author

    We can be thankful that Dave Nalle opposes reauthorization of the Patriot Act. 90% of Republicans in Congress voted in favor of the Patriot Act.

    One Libertarian out of more than 20,000 members of The Libertarian Party punched Dave in the arm, so his buddies are glad they are in the Republican Party? Dave needs to work on his math skills.

    If that is the mentality in RLC, I just don’t take that little group of camp followers seriously.

  92. Gene Berkman Post author

    Goldamerica @ 116 – there is no reason to believe that unemployment will get down to 6% by 2012. It has never been as low as 4% in my lifetime.

    Anyway, Mr Phillies said Obama would be re-elected because unemployment is down to 9%. I was responding to that…

  93. paulie

    @ 119-120 I would like it if one of our other writers would post that as an article. It would violate our policy for me to post it.

    @ 121 “Republicans are wrong on foreign policy, they’re wrong on social policy, and they’re lying hypocrites on economic policy.”

    As the LP locals get ready to do spring and summer outdoor events we need to have this as part of the message.

    Yes. And:

    Democrats are wrong on economic policy. And lying hypocrites on social policy and foreign policy.

    The Democrats and Republicans stools have no legs, but their legs are covered in stool.

    De-Nile is not just a river in Egypt. Stop living in De-Nile (denial), put US and foreign war criminals on trial.

    @ 122 perhaps dangerously so.

    Definitely dangerously so, IMO.

    @ 123 True, and it’s worse than that…the guy who punched him was actually a fellow RLC guy named Marcus (I have not seen a last name), not his LP buddy Snitker.

  94. Thomas L. Knapp

    Two years into his first term, Obama is close to 1/3 more popular than Ronald Reagan was in January of 1983.

    He’s not in trouble for re-election now, and unless things get much, much worse and the GOP can come up with a viable candidate, he’s not going to get in trouble for re-election.

  95. Robert Capozzi

    tk126: Two years into his first term, Obama is close to 1/3 more popular than Ronald Reagan was in January of 1983.

    me: Sounds correct. Reagan inherited an arguably more challenging situation than Obama. Things turned in 83-84, though, as I recall. Extrapolation is always dangerous, but especially this far out.

    If the Rs put up a Mondale, odds are high they’ll lose, that’s likely true. We saw that in 08, as McCain was a VERY weak candidate, backed by someone obviously out of her depths.

    Egypt is now under martial law, in effect. The economy seems to be perking a bit, but tenuously so. Rs are vacillating in the House. Pakistan continues to be unstable. Many, many other factors…way too soon to say much of anything about ’12.

  96. paulie

    Obama is a charismatic guy. Palin is a charismatic gal, but she also does not play well in the middle; Obama does, as he has picked up Billy Jeff C’s tactic of triangulation. Same goes for Dale Peterson. Great for pumping up the base, but that’s it.

    Ron Paul and Gary Johnson can’t get the Republican nomination.

    Romney would have issues with differentiating himself. Romneycare, what?

    Newt Gingrich is just not as slick as the original Slick.

    Huckabee would pretty much be a message to fiscal conservatives to go indie/alt party.

    Trump is, at this point, more of a punchline to a joke than anything else.

    Other Republicans are pretty much non-entities, and will probably remain that way.
    Daniels, Pawlenty, Herman Cain, etc…someone hit the snooze button, please.

    The Republican field looks weak.

    The world situation and the economy – I guess we’ll see what happens. 2012 is a lifetime away.

  97. Robert Capozzi

    p129: The Republican field looks weak. The world situation and the economy – I guess we’ll see what happens. 2012 is a lifetime away.

    me: Yes, although Mondale or Dukakis weak? I’d say no. It’d be a “shame” if the LP doesn’t make hay of this election, but then we haven’t been doing so for decades, so why stop now?

  98. Gene Berkman

    There is no doubt in my mind that Robert Welch was over the top in his “conspiracy theories” and that some questionable elements have hitched a ride on the JBS bandwagon based on some of Mr Welch’s insane or even inane statements.

    But The John Birch Society today is much more focused on opposing domestic socialism and interventionist foreign policy, and has even called the War on Drugs into question.

    When the JBS in the 1960s wrote about the threat of a Negro Soviet Republic in the south, it was giving credence to the actual position that the Communist Party had advocated thirty years earlier. Aside from the fact that the CP, despite Mr Welch’s views, lacked the power to implement the Negro Soviet Republic plan, it was also 30 years out of date.

    And so Rachel Maddow brings up publications from The John Birch Society that are 50 years old – I guess that is poetic justice.

  99. Steven R Linnabary

    The Republican field looks weak.

    The CURRENT republican field is weak.

    But I fully expect former Congressman and current OH Governor John Kasich to join the field. He’s been groomed by several years on Faux News, and ran in 2000. He even has some cred with small government voters as well as social conservatives and neocons.

    PEACE

  100. Robert Capozzi

    Kasich might be interesting. I find him highly articulate, more than Gingrich, yet more down home. I wonder how socially conservative and hawkish he is. He can’t have Gingrich-level baggage.

    Being from OH, a “battleground” state, cannot hurt his chances, in concept.

  101. Thomas L. Knapp

    Bob @ 128,

    “Extrapolation is always dangerous, but especially this far out.”

    That’s precisely my point.

    A lot of people are extrapolating, from the fact that the GOP re-took the House in 2010 after four years in the minority, that Obama is screwed.

    The GOP re-took the House and the Senate in 1994 after forty years in the minority — and Bill Clinton still whipped Bob Dole’s ass in 1996.

    Reagan was even less popular in early 1983 than Obama is in early 2011 — and he carried 49 states in 1984.

    Could the economy take another dive instead of improving? Sure. Would that hurt Obama? Sure.

    Could Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, all three or some other place where important US interests are allegedly at stake fall to pieces? Sure. Would that hurt Obama? Sure.

    Could the GOP come up with a plausible replacement for Obama — someone who can keep the GOP base on board enough to get the nomination, but with enough cachet at the center to win the general election? That one seems iffier, but yeah, it could happen.

    I’m not trying to extrapolate an Obama victory in 2012. I’m just saying that in the game of draw poker that is presidential politics, the GOP is going to have to keep one ace, discard four cards, and draw to a full house or better to change the existing situation.

  102. Robert Capozzi

    tk, glad we agree. If Egypt and/Pakistan go south and unemployment is north of say 8%, Obama is beatable with difficulty by most Rs who are named as potentials, I’d say. If UE is headed toward 7% or less and the US foreign wars are status quo, Obama in a cakewalk.

    A reasonably popular, well handled president has the presumption of re-election. Carter and Bush 41 were not popular and not well handled, seeming befuddled and weak. They stood for re-election and lost. Bush 43 was also befuddled, but appeared strong and was reasonably well handled, so he was re-elected. Clinton was not befuddled, not weak, was reasonably popular and good times, he was re-elected. Reagan was popular, very well handled, was not weak, he won re-election.

    We should assume that Obama will be well handled for the duration. While he gets sometimes mangled, he’s unlikely to become befuddled. If overseas developments or economic turbulence become overwhelming, he might develop a sense of being weak. But, yes, as of right now, his odds of re-election are 60%+. Of course, that doesn’t mean he’ll win with 60% of the vote, only that it’s IMO 60% likely he’ll get 50%+.

  103. Jay Matthews

    @ 101,

    “I’ve lived through several elections.”

    Really? Congratulations!

    I’ve lived through more than several and it’s the same dog-n-pony show for many of the reasons you reference.

    In short, the vast majority of the voting public is too lazy to do any real research into the backgrounds of the candidates, their voting records, corporate donors, etc. They vote based on talking-points, appearance, party affiliation, and so on, not on substance.

    Ron Paul is a contender (and has the following he has) because his pro-constitution views have caught on. Whether they’ve caught on to a large enough degree to be a REAL challenger remains to be seen. It stands to reason his support should be considerably greater than it was when his campaign wrapped-up in ’08.

    I’m admittedly skeptical, but that is because of the booger-eating morons who vote, not because of Ron Paul.

    “Most people who affect the outcome of elections are not political nerds and hardcore libertarian/third party supporters.”

    No kidding.

  104. StevenWilson

    I believe if Ron Paul remains as the financial candidate and stays away from other topics, the only other variable would be his VP. Gary Johnson is not ready for the executive position.

    If the economy does improve, Obama will win re-election and it will be a repeat of the Clinton years.

  105. Pingback: Leftist on conservative vs libertarian, supports stronger LP | Independent Political Report

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