Alan Keyes Faction of American Independent Party Tentatively Wins Intra-Party Dispute on Procedural Issues

Ballot Access News:

On March 10, a California Superior Court Judge in Solano County tentatively dismissed the lawsuit King v Robinson on procedural issues. Here is the two-paragraph ruling. This case, or similar cases, have been pending since 2008. They concern the identity of the legitimate state officers of the American Independent Party of California. Neither the Superior Court of Sacramento County, nor the Superior Court of Solano County, has ever made a ruling on the merits of the case. The lawsuits have all been filed by the faction of the American Independent Party that is associated with the Constitution Party, after the Secretary of State recognized the faction that is associated with Alan Keyes.

114 thoughts on “Alan Keyes Faction of American Independent Party Tentatively Wins Intra-Party Dispute on Procedural Issues

  1. Jeremy C. Young

    I don’t understand this. The court’s decision states that the judge can’t reinstate King as Party chair because the term of chairmanship is already elapsed. So then whom does the court recognize as chair now? Is Robinson still chair? Does the court expect King to file another lawsuit covering the current term?

  2. Mark Seidenberg

    Jeromy C. Young

    My name is Mark Seidenberg. I am not know nor ever have been in any faction of the American Independent Party. I was elected
    Vice Chairman of the American Independent
    Party first on September 3, 2006 at a meeting
    of the AIP State Central Committee in the
    Sacramento County community of Rancho
    Cordova, CA. Rancho Cordova is one of 25
    communities in Sacramento County.

    I have been re-elected twice, viz., 2008 in
    the Sacramento County community of Downtown Sacramento and 2010 in the
    Sacramento County community of South
    Sacramento. I am the current Vice Chairman
    of the American Independent Party.

    You ask a question that Richard Winger did not
    answer, viz, “Does the court expect (Jim) King
    to file another lawsuit covering the current term?” I will try to answer that question, if you
    would make it clearer. In its present form I do not understand your question. Please explain you question in more detail so I can understand it.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  3. Red Phillips

    Rainman Seidenberg is still hung up on the “communities” issue.

    “I am not know nor ever have been in any faction of the American Independent Party.”

    And he still seems to believe if he repeats something enough times it will make it true.

  4. Porn Again Christian

    Rainman Seidenberg is still hung up on the “communities” issue.

    Communities are communist. Definitely.

  5. Red Phillips

    PAC, unless you have been following this you won’t understand Rainman Seidenberg’s “logic.” You see somewhere in the election code it mentions communities. Sacramento County is the only County in CA officially divided into communities. Therefore, the rump Keyes faction’s convention, which was held in Sacramento, was the “official” convention, while the CP loyal faction’s convention wasn’t in Sacramento County so it couldn’t be official.

    No really. This is the point he is trying to make with his weird fixation on “communities.”

  6. Steven Wilson

    I have tried to follow what goes on in the constitution party. I think Missouri should be a standard, because every other format of the cp needs a therapist and a bartender.

    The cp in Missouri that I have met are intelligent and thoughtful of others. They also hand out copies of the constitution at lectures and meetings.

  7. Jeremy C. Young

    My question is: as of this ruling, which faction is officially recognized as holding the ballot line by the State of California? Because the ruling doesn’t seem to have addressed that at all — it just says it can’t overturn the results of the 2008 rump convention because the term is expired and it’s too late.

  8. Jeremy C. Young

    In that case, it would seem to me that it would behoove the CP to develop a new state affiliate and petition to create a new ballot line under the name Constitution Party. Yes, it sucks for them not to get the freebie votes by having the name Independent in the title, but it’s much more important that they get on the ballot in the nation’s most populous state than that they wait for these clowns to sort out who controls the line.

  9. paulie Post author

    Kind of difficult to do that – they’d need over 100,000 registered voters under their line (plus margin to make up for attrition) or 160k+ valid signatures to get the presidential candidate on the ballot once as an independent. Either of those would cost about $1 million, give or take.

    That might seem high end for the signatures, but since the requirement is so high, they would have to hire companies with several layers of management all taking a cut to make it manageable, plus a hefty margin given that that kind of volume makes for difficulty in quality control.

    At that point, they might as well qualify the whole party through voter registration instead. Only trouble being they don’t have nearly that kind of money or volunteer manpower available.

  10. Andy

    “Jeremy C. Young // Mar 11, 2011 at 2:05 am

    In that case, it would seem to me that it would behoove the CP to develop a new state affiliate and petition to create a new ballot line under the name Constitution Party.”

    It is very difficult to get a new party on the ballot in California. The petition signature requirement to qualify a candidate for the statewide ballot is 172,859 valid signatures. You can also qualify a party for the ballot (for multiple elections) if you can get at least 103,024 people to register to vote under that party’s banner.

    Given the difficulty of qualifying a new party of the ballot in California, I think that the Constitution Party would be better off focusing on trying to take back the American Independent Party from the Alan Keyes hijackers.

  11. Andy

    “That might seem high end for the signatures, but since the requirement is so high, they would have to hire companies with several layers of management all taking a cut to make it manageable, plus a hefty margin given that that kind of volume makes for difficulty in quality control.

    At that point, they might as well qualify the whole party through voter registration instead. Only trouble being they don’t have nearly that kind of money or volunteer manpower available.”

    I think that they could run the petition drive or voter registration drives themselves (as in hiring the petitioners/registrars directly rather than hiring a petition management “company”) and this would save money, however, it would still be expensive and I doubt that they’ve got the money to even do that.

    Their best bet is to focus on taking their party back from the Alan Keyes hijackers.

  12. paulie Post author

    Running it themselves would be even more difficult. Who has the time and manpower to do all the validity checks and to deal with all the petitioners all over the state? How many petitioners do they actually know? Do they know how to spot bad sigs? In terms of overall effort in time and money, it would be just as hard or more.

    Bottom line is any way you slice it, it’s way too high a hurdle for the CP unless they get a very well known, popular and/or wealthy person on their ticket.

    Thus you are correct that “Their best bet is to focus on taking their party back” through legal means.

  13. Steven R Linnabary

    It’s all kind of moot anyway since California has gone to the top-two primary system.

    I find it highly unlikely that ANY opposition party will remain active in California in just a few years.

    But hopefully, I will be wrong.

    PEACE

  14. paulie Post author

    AIP will remain qualified through voter registrations, so they’ll keep running presidential candidates if nothing else.

    Greens and Libertarians are probably also going to be able to do that as well.

    Peace and Freedom Party, perhaps, although they are marginal as far as that goes.

    However, as far as other offices, you are correct.

    Remarkably, BAN

    http://www.ballot-access.org/2011/03/10/california-republican-politician-david-harmer-praises-prop-14-for-keeping-minor-party-candidates-out-of-general-elections/

    quotes Markham Robinson, Secretary of (the Keyes) faction of the American Independent Party, as saying that Proposition 14 may someday help minor party candidates.

    How utterly dumb and absurd.

    This is the same Markhm Robinson that Gary Odom points out in the comments “fails to mention the fact that he couldn’t even make it through an AIP primary election last year (he got trounced), so what does that say for him?”

  15. paulie Post author

    The real solution on top two, as with this factional dispute, will probably come – if at all – through the legal system.

  16. Andy

    “paulie // Mar 11, 2011 at 2:37 am

    Running it themselves would be even more difficult. Who has the time and manpower to do all the validity checks and to deal with all the petitioners all over the state? How many petitioners do they actually know? Do they know how to spot bad sigs? In terms of overall effort in time and money, it would be just as hard or more.”

    I disagree. It wouldn’t be hard to get the word out to professional petition circulators that they were paying for signatures or voter registrations and their party could just appoint a few people in different parts of the state to take turn ins and hand out pay. The Libertarian Party has completed some big petition drives like North Carolina and Texas and they didn’t need any petition “companies”. If the Constitution Party started their drive early enough they could certainly do it without having to pay some inflated amount to a petition “company” and just hire petitioners directly.

    This is all probably just talk anyway because I don’t think that they’ve got the money to complete a petition drive or a voter registration drive for ballot access in California, whether they hire a petition “company” or not.

  17. Andy

    “Greens and Libertarians are probably also going to be able to do that as well.”

    The Libertarian Party is something like 15,000-16,000 registrations short for retaining ballot status under the Prop 14 guidelines. They are grandfathered in for the next Presidential election, but if they don’t increase their voter registrations to over 103,o24 (they’ll need this plus some padding, I’d say at least 110,000 to be safe), they will lose ballot access completely which means they won’t even be able to have a Presidential candidate on the ballot.

  18. Andy

    “Steven R Linnabary // Mar 11, 2011 at 2:37 am

    It’s all kind of moot anyway since California has gone to the top-two primary system.”

    The top-two primary system in California exempts the Presidential race, so the Libertarian Party and any other minor party that enough voter registrations to be ballot qualified will still be able to run Presidential candidates in California and have them on the ballot in the general election.

    Proposition 14 could very well kill off minor party and independent candidates who run for offices other than President in California though.

  19. paulie Post author

    It wouldn’t be hard to get the word out to professional petition circulators that they were paying for signatures or voter registrations and their party could just appoint a few people in different parts of the state to take turn ins and hand out pay. The Libertarian Party has completed some big petition drives like North Carolina and Texas and they didn’t need any petition “companies”.

    NC drive was about 1/3 – 1/2 the raw requirement of California, and they did it over the course of several years. Texas was what, about a quarter of the number of signatures they would have to have in California? This would be a very difficult operation for the CP to manage even if they had the money.

    But yes, you are correct. They don’t have the money.

    The Libertarian Party is something like 15,000-16,000 registrations short for retaining ballot status under the Prop 14 guidelines.

    See:

    Additionally, since the problem for the LP doesn’t kick in until the 2016 Pres. election (according to Richard Winger), they have time to solve this problem.

    Not quite that bad anymore. They’re on their way, and it’s certainly in striking range.

  20. Peter Gemma

    With the Keyes wing nuts in charge, it’s a sad day for the legacy of AIP’s founder Bill Shearer.

    question 1:
    Didn’t Chelene Nightingale, the 2010 AIP gubernatorial candidate, get to pick a certain number of State Central Committee members? If so, and there are enough Constitution Party AIP allies who could vote out the Keyes clique, can they do so now or do they have to wait until the next party elections?

    question 2:
    Is the suit over? The only decision seems only to be a procedural one so can the merits of the argument can still be presented in another format or different venue?

  21. JT

    Jeremy: “My question is: as of this ruling, which faction is officially recognized as holding the ballot line by the State of California?”

    I’ll answer this question for you as I believe Seidenberg would answer it:

    I’m not a member of a faction of the AIP. I was elected vice chairman of the AIP. Don Grundmann hasn’t been an officer in the AIP since Sept. 2, 2008 (or some date like that).

    Seidenberg doesn’t even acknowledge any dispute, so he’s not going to give a straight answer.

  22. paulie Post author

    question 1:
    Didn’t Chelene Nightingale, the 2010 AIP gubernatorial candidate, get to pick a certain number of State Central Committee members? If so, and there are enough Constitution Party AIP allies who could vote out the Keyes clique, can they do so now or do they have to wait until the next party elections?

    You may want to pose the question on the original version of this article at BAN, linked in the article. Mr. Winger reads IPR, but i don’t know that he reads every comment here, so he’s more likely to see it if you post it there as well.

    question 2:
    Is the suit over? The only decision seems only to be a procedural one so can the merits of the argument can still be presented in another format or different venue?

    As far as I understand, the case can and will be presented in future court proceedings. That is why I believe BAN included “tentatively” in the headline, which I copied.

  23. Mark Seidenberg

    JT

    “You stated that “Seidenberg doesn’t even acknowledge any dispute, so he’s not going to give a stright answer”.

    JT why do you think I will not give a stright
    answer?

    This morning at about 9:20 a.m. the Brewtown
    lawyer showed up in court and asked the judge
    to let him be heard on the tenative ruling, because he was studing for the bar etc. After
    attorney Gary G. Kreep replied to King’s attorney, Judge Mattie made his tenative ruling
    final. The case is now over. Mr. Markham Robinson won and Mr. Jim King lost.

    Back at the Constitution Party Convention in
    April, 2008, both convention delegates Jim King and Markham Robinson votes were for Ambassador Dr. Alan Keyes. 80% of the California Delegates to the April 2008 convention of the Constitution
    Party in Kansas City backed Alan Keyes for
    President of the United States.

    On June 27, 2008, the State Central Committee
    of the American Independent Party of California
    joined the America’s Independent Party of Fenton, Michigan. Therefore the connection
    between the American Independent Party of
    California and the National Constitution Party
    ended.

    Dr. Don Grundmann who’s last day on the AIP
    State Central Committee was September 2, 2008, formed a political body called the “Constitution Party of California” and he
    is its chairman. He has until September 5, 2011
    to get 103,004 electors in the Constitution Party
    to become ballot qualified. On October 18, 2010
    his count of party membership was at 167.
    On the same date the American Independent
    Party registration was at 413,004 electors.

    Also, I just hear yesterday, that Ambassador Dr.
    Alan Keyes conpleted his new book. I want to
    buy a copy and read it. However, I do not know its title. If any one reading this knows the title
    please post here. Thank you.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg,
    Vice Chairman, American Independent Party
    and Chairman, Orange County Central Committee of the AIP

  24. Jeremy C. Young

    Given Andy’s and Paulie’s comments, I think the CP should invest some serious legal muscle in getting back control of the AIP from the Keyes faction. The local CP faction’s lawsuits seem to have been pretty amateur-hour so far. I wonder if the national committee (Clymer, etc.) will actually work to fix this. It would seem wise to do so.

  25. JT

    Mark: “JT why do you think I will not give a straight answer?”

    Because you almost never do. I think that’s a good reason.

    It seems like you did here though. After post 3, where you didn’t.

  26. Mark Seidenberg

    Jeromy C. Young

    You state in post 31 that “CP’s factions lawsuits
    seem to be pretty amateur-hour so far.” Why do
    you believe that?

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  27. Porn Again Christian

    I like that Rump Shaker video, comment #11

    # 31/33: The entire mess and both factions, parties, groups or whatever you want to call them look amateur hour. Although I agree there’s nothing pretty about it.

  28. Mark Seidenberg

    Andy,

    I believe the number you gave was 20 electors
    to high. I believe the number is 103,004 and no
    103,024. Where did the extra 20 in number come from?

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  29. paulie Post author

    [Raymond has jumped in the car with Susanna]
    Charlie: Hey, who is this guy?
    Susanna: He just jumped in the car.
    Charlie: Yeah well he can jump out. Come on!
    Raymond: I’m an excellent driver.
    Charlie: That’s good. Come on! Susanna, why’d you let him get in this car? It’s not a toy.
    Susanna: He says he drives this car.
    Raymond: Dad lets me drive slow on the driveway every Saturday. ‘Course the seats were originally brown leather now they’re a pitiful red.
    Charlie: [surprised] Hey, these seats were brown leather. You know this car?
    Raymond: I know this car.
    Charlie: How do you know this car?
    Raymond: It’s a 1949 Buick Roadmaster. Straight 8. Fireball 8. Only 8,985 production models. Dad lets me drive slow on the driveway. But not on Monday, definitely not on Monday.
    Charlie: Who’s your dad?
    Raymond: Sanford Babbitt. 10961 Beachcrest Street, Cincinnati Ohio.
    Charlie: That’s my address. Hey, who’s your mother?
    Raymond: Eleanor Babbitt. Died January 5, 1965 after short and sudden illness.
    Charlie: Who the hell are you?
    Raymond: Uh oh, fifteen minutes to Judge Wapner.
    [Raymond proceeds back to Walbrook, ignoring Charlie]
    Charlie: Wait, I wanna ask you a question! Hey! Dr. Bruner, who is he?
    Dr. Bruner: Raymond is your brother.

  30. Mark Seidenberg

    FKC

    # 36. Yes! The CCROV’s are very important.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  31. Mark Seidenberg

    Raymond Babbit

    First the figures are now out for February 7, 2011. It does not look good for Dr. Don Grundmann and his “Constitution Party
    of California”. On October 18, 2010 the
    registration of that party was 167 elector.
    With all the registration efforts of Don
    and Ida Grundmann the registration has
    declined by ten electors to 157 of which 119
    are in Los Angeles County. Could this mean
    that the Chelene Nightingale is going down hill
    fast?

    On the other hand the registration of the American Independent Party now is at 417,567
    elector.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party
    has increased

  32. Raymond Babbitt

    Definitely two T’s in Babbitt. Two T’s. Definitely.

    167 Elector. 417,567 elector. There can be only one elector. When you add a second elector they become electors. Definitely. Electors.

    Chelene Nightingale going down? I want her to go down. Downtown. Definitely.

    Judge Wapner is coming on. Gotta go.

  33. Mark Seidenberg

    Raymond Babbit

    The figures for February 1o, 2011 is not good for
    the Constiution Party of California. First their
    registration is only 157 elector. Down ten from
    October 18th 2010. There goal is to get 103,004
    electors by September 5, 2011 for ballot access.
    Grundmann’s party registration is going in the
    wrong direction.

    Good news for the American Independent Party.
    It registration is up to 417,567 electors. It also
    has major party status in two California Counties.

    Last October 18, 2010 the AIP registration got
    major party status in just one county. Now there
    are two California Counties where the registration has made the AIP a major party.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party.

    With Dr. Don Grundmann at the head of the
    CP in California, I am questioning if he will
    make the goal of 103,004 electors by September
    5. 2011.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg
    Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  34. Barretta

    Nightingale has been exposed for the radical nut she is. The Host of all radio programs, mock her, the rest of the population (the sane ones) wouldn’t elect her as garbage collector. (warrning warning censor time) Hey this blemish on society put her fat face out in public for scrutiny then cries…unfair unfair I’ll sue” when sane people call her on her rants and lies. Eat it.

  35. Raymond Babbitt

    Raymond Babbit?

    No.

    Raymond Babbitt.

    Definitely two T’s in Babbitt. Two T’s. Definitely.

    157 elector. There can be only one elector. When you add a second elector they become electors. Definitely. Electors.

    Any number over two. Also electors. Not elector. Electors. One elector. More than one electors. Definitely.

    There goal is to get 103,004
    electors by September 5, 2011 for ballot access.

    There goal? Where goal? Electors. Definitely electors. Not elector. Electors. Definitely.

    Their there, there their. Definitely.

    It registration is up to 417,567 electors.
    It. Cousin It. Munsters. Grampa Munster. Uncle Fester. Morticia. Definitely Morticia. Definitely.

    Time to polish my shoes. Morticia. Polish shoes. Definitely.

  36. Raymond Babbitt

    Tsunami. Yes. Polishing shoes. Shoes are polished.

    You like to swallow? Definitely swallow. Definitely.

  37. Mark Seidenberg

    Raymond Babbit

    I just read your post and you were correct. It was a spellling/typing error. I should of stated
    157 electors in the Constitution Party of California.

    I also made one other error. The CP did not
    have 119 electors in Los Angeles County. I was
    looking at the wrong column in registration
    figures. As of February 10th there was no
    CP registration in Los Angeles County. Below is
    the true registration for February 10, 2011 by county.

    Amador 8
    Orange 39
    Placer 7
    Riverside 2
    Sacramento 1
    San Diego 38
    San Mateo 5
    Santa Barbara 3
    Santa Clara 27
    Shesta 6
    Siskiyou 2
    Solono 1
    Stanislaus 7
    Tehama 1
    Tulame 2
    Ventura 1
    Yolo 6

    Yuba 7

    Total 157 (down ten in registration from October 18, 2010.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party
    SantaClara
    3

  38. Raymond Babbitt

    Mark Seidenber

    Raymond Babbit?

    No.

    Raymond Babbitt.

    Definitely two T’s in Babbitt. Two T’s. Definitely.

    Should of.
    Of what? Of white?

    Have. Have not. Should have. Definitely should have. Have. Definitely.

    (down ten in registration from October 18, 2010.

    )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    You didn’t close that. Definitely didn’t close. Uh oh. Left it open. Whistlin’ dixie. XYZ.

    Amador 8
    Orange 39
    Placer 7
    Riverside 2
    Sacramento 1
    San Diego 38
    San Mateo 5
    Santa Barbara 3
    Santa Clara 27
    Shesta 6
    Siskiyou 2
    Solono 1
    Stanislaus 7
    Tehama 1
    Tulame 2
    Ventura 1
    Yolo 6

    Yuba 7

    My final thoughts: Jared Lee Loughner!

    Most people, who read this text, forget in the next 2 second!

    The population of dreamers in the United States of America is less than 5%!

    If 987,123,478,961,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,618 is the year in B.C.E. then the previous year of 987,123,478,961,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,618 B.C.E. is 987,123,478,961,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,610 B.C.E.

    987,123,478,961,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,618 is the year in B.C.E.

    Therefore the previous year of 987,123,478,961,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,618 B.C.E. is 987,123,478,961,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,619 B.C.E.

    If B.C.E. years are unable to start then A.D.E. years are unable to begin.

    B.C.E. years are unable to start.

    Thus, A.D.E. years are unable to begin.

    If A.D.E. is endless in year then the years in A.D.E. don’t cease.

    A.D.E. is endless in year.

    Therefore, the years in A.D.E. don’t cease.

    If I teach a mentally capable 8 year old for 20 consecutive minutes to replace an alphabet letter with a new letter and pronunciation then the mentally capable 8 year old writes and pronounces the new letter and pronunciation that’s replacing an alphabet letter in 20 consecutive minutes.

    I teach a mentally capable 8 year old for 20 consecutive minutes to replace an alphabet letter with a new letter and pronunciation.

    Thus, the mentally capable 8 year old writes and pronounces the new letter and pronunciation that replaces an alphabet letter in 20 consecutive minutes.

    Every human who’s mentally capable is always able to be treasurer of their new currency.

    If you create one new currency then you’re able to create a second new currency.

    If you’re able to create second new currency then you’re able to create third new currency.

    You create one new currency.

    Thus, you’re able to create a third currency.

    You’re a treasurer for a new currency, listener?

    You create and distribute your new currency, listener?

    You don’t allow the government to control your grammar structure, listener?

    If you create one new language then you’re able to create a second new language.

    If you’re able to create second new language then you’re able to create third new language.

    You create one new language.

    Thus, you’re able to create a third language.

    All humans are in need of sleep.

    Jared Loughner is a human.

    Hence, Jared Loughner is in need of sleep.

    Sleepwalking

    If I define sleepwalking then sleepwalking is the act or state of walking, eating, or performing other motor acts while asleep, of which one is unaware upon awakening.

    I define sleepwalking.

    Thus sleepwalking is the act or state of walking, eating, or performing other motor acts while asleep, of which one is unaware upon awakening.

    I’m a sleepwalker — who turns off the alarm clock.

    All conscience dreaming at this moment is asleep.

    Jared Loughner is conscience dreaming at this moment.

    Thus, Jared Loughner is asleep.

    Terrorist

    If I define terrorist then a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

    I define terrorist.

    Thus, a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

    If you call me a terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.
    You call me a terrorist.
    Thus, the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.

    Every United States Military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix is receiving one mini bible before the tests.

    Jared Loughner is a United States Military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix.

    Therefore, Jared Loughner is receiving one mini bible before the tests.

    I didn’t write a belief on my Army application, and the recruiter wrote on the application: None.

    The majority of citizens in the United States of America have never read the United States of America’s Constitution.

    You don’t have to accept the federalist laws.

    Nonetheless, read the United States of America’s Constitution to apprehend all of the current treasonous laws.

    You’re literate, listener?

    If the property owners and government officials are no longer in ownership of their land and laws from a revolution then the revolutionary’s from the revolution are in control of the land and laws.

    The property owners and government officials are no longer in ownership of their land and laws from a revolution.

    Thus, the revolutionary’s from the revolution are in control of the land and laws.

    In conclusion, reading the second United States Constitution, I can’t trust the current government because of the ratifications: The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar.

    No! I won’t pay debt with a currency that’s not backed by gold and silver!

    No! I won’t trust in God!

    Definitely.

  39. Mark Seidenberg

    Raymond Babbit

    Your posting above was quite long, but I did read it. Your information on the lack of read
    the Constitution by the majority of the people
    is very upsetting to me. This is why both the
    Democratic and Republican parties would put
    up for election for president in 2008 two illegal aliens viz., Obama (a Subject of
    Jamshid, Sultan of Zanzibar) and McCain (born
    in Panama out of wedlock to a non-employee of
    the United States Government or the Pamana
    Railroad Companmy.)

    Botton line with 157 electors and needing 103,004 electors by September 5, 2011, I believe the CP have some real goal problems.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  40. Raymond Babbitt

    Mark Seidenber

    Raymond Babbit?

    No.

    Raymond Babbitt.

    Definitely two T’s in Babbitt. Two T’s. Definitely.

    Your information.

    Jared Lee Loughner information.

    In formation.

    Mark Seidenber in formation with Jared Lee Loughner. Shared concerns. Concerning.

    on the lack of read
    the Constitution.

    Lack of read.
    Lack of bread. Like the Grateful Dead.

    Lack of reading. Ding ding ding ding ding.

    Reading of. Ding-off!

    put
    up for election for president in 2008 two illegal aliens viz., Obama (a Subject of
    Jamshid, Sultan of Zanzibar) and McCain (born
    in Panama out of wedlock to a non-employee of
    the United States Government or the Pamana
    Railroad Companmy.)

    Ding ding ding. Shape shifting reptiles from outer space. Danger Will Robinson. Danger.

    Botton line.

    Botton
    The Strangest Village in Britain

    High in the North Yorkshire Moors, there’s a village where a remarkable project has been underway for half a century. Botton is home to nearly 300 people, nearly half of whom have learning difficulties, including Down’s Syndrome, Autism and other mental illnesses. Botton is a tolerant place where people are accepted….Botton is a shared community, volunteers called co-workers, come from all over the world to live and work with people with special needs. The special needs residents are known as villagers and they will live in a house with a few other villagers and their co-workers and the co-workers families. The co-workers are referred to as house-parents. Like any village, Botton, has occasional disputes….

    What’s the Botton Line on California AIP?

    Botton Line?

    Definitely. Botton. Good times there are not forgotten. Definitely Botton. Definitely.

    Mark Seidenber, Vice Rainman, American Independent Party of Botton.

    Raymond Babbitt, Rainman, American Independent Party of Botton.

    Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. So Mark Seidenber are you a vice or not a vice.

    Definitely, Raymond Babbitt, Rainman, American Independent Party of Botton.

  41. Jeremy C. Young

    Generally speaking, national third parties work best when they leave their local affiliates alone to do the activism they do best. As this thread proves, the CP in California is an exception.

    Sheesh.

  42. Mark Seidenberg

    Jeromy C. Young

    I agree look what the CP has in California. They
    have Chelene Nightingale, Dr. Don Grundmann,and Jim King. They are losing support not gaining anything. There goal
    was to get 103.004 elector by September 3, 2011. On October 18, 2010 the Constitution
    Party had 167 elector, On February 10, 2011.
    the Constitution Party registration declined to
    157 Constitution Party of California electors.
    Don, Jim. & Chelene can not get off the dime.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman
    American Independent Party
    I do not see how

    sep

  43. Andy

    “Mark Seidenberg // Mar 11, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    Andy,

    I believe the number you gave was 20 electors
    to high. I believe the number is 103,004 and no
    103,024. Where did the extra 20 in number come from?”

    Richard Winger’s Ballot Access News. I believe it was the December 2010 issue.

  44. Andy

    “Additionally, since the problem for the LP doesn’t kick in until the 2016 Pres. election (according to Richard Winger), they have time to solve this problem.

    Not quite that bad anymore. They’re on their way, and it’s certainly in striking range.”

    I think that the number of registrations could go up if more people vote in the next election, which is likely to happen.

  45. Andy

    “NC drive was about 1/3 – 1/2 the raw requirement of California, and they did it over the course of several years. Texas was what, about a quarter of the number of signatures they would have to have in California? This would be a very difficult operation for the CP to manage even if they had the money.”

    The LP has done North Carolina on multiple occassions (sometimes it took them longer than others; I know one time it was done in like 6 months). If you consider the number of signatures required in North Carolina and compare it to California, and then factor in the population of each state, the signature requirment in North Carolina is higher on a ratio scale.

    Texas requires around 45,000 sigantures, but they’ve only got 70 days to get them, and anybody who voted in the primaries can’t sign the petition.

    If the Constitution Party had the money, I think that they could get on the ballot in California by hiring petitioners directly instead of hiring a petition “company”, especially if they started the petition drive early.

    This is all a moot point though because I seriously doubt they have the money.

  46. Andy

    “Jeremy C. Young // Mar 11, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Given Andy’s and Paulie’s comments, I think the CP should invest some serious legal muscle in getting back control of the AIP from the Keyes faction. The local CP faction’s lawsuits seem to have been pretty amateur-hour so far. I wonder if the national committee (Clymer, etc.) will actually work to fix this. It would seem wise to do so.”

    Can’t you all just organize an effort to retake the party at the next state convention?

  47. paulie Post author

    think that the number of registrations could go up if more people vote in the next election, which is likely to happen.

    Still within striking range and the numbers keep going up. Latest at BAN shows LP went up from 0.53% of the voters in October to 0.54% in February.

    I think the party has enough resources not to dip off the ballot in California, although they may well do a last minute rush job, if past history is a guide, and waste a good opportunity to do it the right way and make it an opportunity for party building.

    If you consider the number of signatures required in North Carolina and compare it to California, and then factor in the population of each state, the signature requirment in North Carolina is higher on a ratio scale.

    We keep having this discussion. If you have a very small group of people who have to process a huge number of signatures, so long as the number is still very small compared to the overall population of voters in a state, the raw numbers are the more important factor, more so than relation to the population.

    Let’s say they had to do a nationwide petition that needed a million signatures, they could get them out of 300 million people (about 200 million registered voters). Sure, it would be “easier” on a percentage of population basis, but getting and processing that many signatures is a massive undertaking.

    Even if you have the money, but you have a small group of party members, at that point it’s much easier to hire a company.

    That’s why such companies exist. If it was easier for proponents to deal with petitioners individually there would be no market for petition companies.

    If the Constitution Party had the money, I think that they could get on the ballot in California by hiring petitioners directly instead of hiring a petition “company”, especially if they started the petition drive early.

    Maybe they could, but realistically they have a tiny party with few active members in California, and little experience in running petition drives, so even if the money fell in their lap they may well not be able to handle that.

    This is all a moot point though because I seriously doubt they have the money.

    Yeah, I thought we agreed on that. So I’m not sure why you keep bringing it up, especially since it’s just turning into repeating essentially teh same things we already said.

    Can’t you all just organize an effort to retake the party at the next state convention?

    Jeremy is not in the CP.

    But as far as the CP goes, they can’t, because the AIP people don’t credential them at their conventions.

    So the lawsuit is realistically their only chance, unless they get a very well known and/or wealthy presidential candidate.

  48. Raymond Babbitt

    Mark Seidenber

    Jeromy C. Young

    There is no O in Jeremy. Definitely no O. O-less. Definitely.

    There goal

    Where goal? There goal? Under where goal? I get my underwear at K-Mart in Cincinnati. They say Raymond on them. K-Mart in Cincinnati.

    was to get 103.004 elector by September 3, 2011. On October 18, 2010 the Constitution
    Party had 167 elector, On February 10, 2011.

    167 is more than 103.004

    167-103.004 equals 63.996

    They got 63.996 electors more than 103.004.
    63.996 is more than 63 but less than 64. Definitely.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman
    American Independent Party
    I do not see how

    Me neither

    sep

    wtf

    What’s the Botton Line on California AIP?

    Botton Line?

    Definitely. Botton. Good times there are not forgotten. Definitely Botton. Definitely.

    Mark Seidenber, Vice Rainman, American Independent Party of Botton.

    Raymond Babbitt, Rainman, American Independent Party of Botton.

    Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. So Mark Seidenber are you a vice or not a vice.

    Definitely, Raymond Babbitt, Rainman, American Independent Party of Botton.

  49. Raymond Babbitt

    Mark Seidenber

    On October 18, 2010 the Constitution
    Party had 167 elector, On February 10, 2011.

    There can be only one elector. When you add a second elector they become electors. Definitely. Electors.

    Any number over two. Also electors. Not elector. Electors. One elector. More than one electors. Definitely.

    And October 18 is not February 10. Definitely different days. I’m an excellent driver.

    are you a vice or not a vice. vice or not a vice.

    Definitely, Raymond Babbitt, Rainman, American Independent Party of Botton.

  50. Jeremy C. Young

    Andy, it seems that how this works is, the Noonan/Robinson/Seidenberg faction holds a kangaroo-court convention where they steal all the offices and don’t let anybody contest them. Then the real AIP, the King/Grundmann/Nightingale faction, files a bunch of amateur-hour lawsuits that don’t get anywhere because of stupid technicalities. If the CP-aligned faction could just get its act together, it could wrest back control of the ballot line through the courts. I’m not sure that would be possible through the convention, since the policy is basically that the Keyes faction can steal the seats however they want, and the CP faction has no legal recourse because they’re too stupid to file their court papers properly.

    This is why the national CP should step in and sort out all of these clowns.

  51. Mark Seidenberg

    JT

    Mr. Raymond Babbit is having a hard time getting his points across. But lets not do name
    calling here. I have been trying to answer his
    questions as best I can. Most of what he writes
    are not question. I believe if Mr. Babbit took
    a class in logic it might help him.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg
    Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  52. wolfefan

    FWIW, I think Raymond Babbitt’s (2 T’s) are among the funniest I’ve seen here in a while. Most of the responses are pretty funny too, except they don’t mean to be.

  53. Mark Seidenberg

    wolfefan

    I do not believe Mr. Babbitt was try to be funny.
    He just is in need of taking a logic class. As to the
    issue of the Constitution Party of California, Dr. Don Grundmann can’t organize his way out of a
    paper bag. He needs a total of 103,004 elector
    in the Constitution Party, by September 5, 2011,
    to become ballot qualified in California. As of February 10, 2011, the CP has 157. On October 18, 2010 the total registration of the CP was 167.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  54. Mark Seidenberg

    Jeromy C. Young

    I do not see it the way you do. I am not now nor ever been in a faction of the American Independent Party. I have been the AIP vice chairman since 2006.

    There is one point you made does have some truth, viz., the filing of three amatuer-hour lawsuits since 2008. The reason is Mr. King hired
    Brewtown lawyers not admitted to the California
    Bar to do the Unauthorized Practice of Law. (UPL).

    The big question is who are the clown lawyers that Mr. King hired and why. This is what he
    got for hiring persons to act as lawyers to do the
    Unathorized Practice of Law.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  55. AyatollahGondola

    Nightingale has moved on to greener pa$ture$,

    The prospect of fame and fortune has diminished from the political field of the CP for her. She has now attached herself to another group that claims to be a shadow government (not their description), and actually claims to be the governor of the republic of california! The group or whatever you want to call it, is selling ID’s for a fee, and has already pitted its’ organizers against one another( a rather common theme where nightingale treads)
    A video is circulating the web in which Chelene (with a byline below her that declares her Governor) is introducing another person as her “chief justice”. Rather than once again point out her delusional state, I’ll instead reference our own. We, the people of third parties, are no different than those of the dems and the repubs. We fell for the same BS that we are always accusing the sheep of other parties of doing. We went for sizzle. We ignored the facts and history of the candidate. We went for party line.
    Nightingale is just another useless frauduent “face” that ends up being the same no matter what party you flee to. We are the problem. We did the same thing we always do

  56. paulie Post author

    JT, Raymond Babbitt is the given name of the character Rainman in the movie Rainman. He’s played by Dustin Hoffman. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain_Man and see
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095953/quotes for some Raymond Babbitt quotes.

    At comments 7, 10, and 37 Red Phillips describes Mark Seidenberg’s style as Rainman-like.

    I believe “Raymond Babbitt” is trying to illustrate what happens if “Rainman” was having a conversation with “Vice-Rainman” Mark Seidenber(g).

    In #53, due to a typo by Mark Seidenberg (“botton line” instead of “bottom line,”) Raymond Babbitt discovered the story of Botton, England – home to nearly 300 people, nearly half of whom have learning difficulties, including Down’s Syndrome, Autism and other mental illnesses. [..] Like any village, Botton, has occasional disputes….

    Henceforward, in Raymond Babbitt’s cosmology, the American Independent Party of California and the Constitution Party of California became two bickering factions of residents of Botton, UK.

    Mark Seidenberg always refers to Raymond Babbitt as Raymond Babbit, leaving off the last letter of his last name, so Babbitt retaliates by calling him Mark Seidenber. Since Raymond is the Rainman of the American Independent Party of Botton, Mark Seidenber – another resident of Botton, whose similarities to Mark Seidenberg of California are only coincidental – is the Vice Rainman of the American Independent Party of Botton.

    The question that the two of them are considering at the moment is whether the Vice Rainman is a vice or not a vice.

    Wolfefan (and anyone else who may have liked the exchange), sorry for giving away the joke. 🙂

  57. JT

    Paulie, were you joking when you explained that whole thing?? I can’t tell.

    Of course I understood who he was imitating and what he was doing, LOL. I’m not retarded. I meant do you know who he REALLY his based on his IP address?

  58. Mark Seidenberg

    Raymond Babbitt

    I thought your American Independent Party club at
    Patton State Hospital would like to know the change
    of registration in the Contitution Party between October 18, 2010 and February 10, 2011.

    The goal is for the Constitution Party of California
    to get ballot quailfied by the being of September, 2011. That will require 103,004 appications of registration over the next seveeral months. As of
    February 10, 2011, the CP of CA has 157, down from 167 on October 18, 2010.

    Here is the breakdown:

    10/18/2010 County of 2/10/11
    8 Amador 8
    1 Calaveras 0
    13 Contra Costa 0
    7 El Dorado 0
    7 Nevada 0
    40 Orange 39
    0 Placer 7
    2 Riverside 2
    1 Sacramento 1
    36 San Diego 38
    4 San Mateo 5
    2 Santa Barbara 3
    24 Santa Clara 27
    0 Shesta 6
    0 Siskyou 2
    1 Solano 1
    0 Stanislaus 7
    0 Tehama 1
    2 Tulare 2
    3 Ventura 1
    6 Yolo 6
    1 Yuba 1

    Total 167 `157

    There are 58 counties in California. The Constitution Party has currenty electors in only 18
    this year which is down from 22 in 2010.

    Does any one know what the Constitution Party is
    doing to collect new electors other than trying to
    highjack the AIP State Central Committee?

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg,
    Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  59. Mark Seidenberg

    Paulie

    Thank you. It looks like the joke was played on me.
    I though it was the Ray at Patton State Hospital.

    Sorry, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  60. paulie Post author

    Paulie, were you joking when you explained that whole thing? …Of course I understood who he was imitating and what he was doing, LOL. I’m not retarded.

    Yes. Of course I was joking. ROFL.

    I meant do you know who he REALLY his based on his IP address?

    I could tell you, but then I would have to kill you.

    More seriously: I don’t like to confirm or deny that kind of information.

    However, I’ve spoken with Raymond Babbitt and he said he won’t do it anymore unless maybe a lot of people ask him to keep going, and even then there’s really no point anymore anyway, since I gave away the plot.

  61. Mark Seidenberg

    Ayatollah Gondola

    Please post the site information on Nighingale and the Republic of California.

    As an historical note, the only government to recognized the Government of the Republic of California under the President William Ide was that
    of the Third Kamahama. He sent Captain Paty to
    California to establish diplomatic relations between
    the Republic of California and the Kingdom of Hawai’i.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

    Sincerely,

  62. Don Grundmann

    A big part of my comments on this website unfortunately are to correct the many lies and attacks against the REAL American Independent Party, the Constitution Party, and our candidates. Hence to continue that task, and here working backwards from the most recent lie to the oldest ( which due to the sheer avalanche/volume of lying I am always behind ) –

    1) ” trying to highjack the AIP State Central Committee? ” ( from comment # 72 by continuous professional liar and ADL/SPLC agent Mark Seidenberg ). The personal corruption and criminality of Mark Seidenberg, Mark Robinson, and Ed Noonan in being the actual hijackers of the AIP, and a criminal enterprise, is found at TheCorruptionOfAlanKeyes.blogspot.com.

    Relevant to the AIP, any growth of it in the last election cycle was due entirely to our wonderful candidate of the REAL AIP, Chelene Nightingale. The Robinson Crime Syndicate controlled portion of the party not only did nothing to build the party but in fact actively attacked it in order to shrink its size.

    2) ” AyatollahGondola ” of comment #69 is yet another mole within the conservative movement who has provided a continuous stream of lies against Chelene over many months while doing less than nothing himself in defense of the nation in any manner or regarding any issue. In complete contrast Chelene has totally put his lazy butt to shame by outworking him by a factor of thousands on any and all issues of importance to the citizens and our future. He is just another worthless and traitorous slug who gets his claim to fame by attacking and tearing down others while doing absolutely nothing positive in any way. A walking piece of human imitating garbage which his latest screed against Chelene so well illustrates.

    3) ” hiring persons to act as lawyers to do the
    Unathorized Practice of Law ” ( from comment #68 by Seidenberg ). Yet another ( yawn ) lie from someone(thing) that is totally incapable of telling the truth for one second unless as a setup for yet another lie. All lawyers representing the REAL AIP are, and were, fully licensed to do so in California. In contrast ( yet again ) Seidenberg is NOT licensed to practice law in California.

    4) The lawsuit of the REAL AIP to bring justice to the party and expose the criminality of the Robinson Crime Syndicate before a true jury will continue. The true facts of the issue have never been heard in court; an occurance which would ( and will ) instantly expose the Robinson Crime Syndicate and its members inclusive of Seidenberg as being the outright criminals and liars that they are and always have been. They have always feared exposure of the facts of their utter corruption and that is why they are terrified of such a jury trial.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  63. Mark Seidenberg

    Don Grundmann

    You have not been a member of the American Independent Party State Central Committee since
    September 2, 2008. This is 2011, come out of
    it. No one wants you at any level of the AIP.

    We do not allow fusion parties in California under
    state law. I guess it has not soaked in yet. The lawsuits are now over. You are not welcome at
    any AIP meeting in the State of California. You
    will not be allowed to run for President of the United
    States any more on the AIP ticket.

    You hold no office in the American Independent
    Party. Now please just go away.

    If you did not know, you should have, because the
    Brewtown lawyers that Mr, King hired were not
    admitted to the California Bar at times when they
    did UPL.

    Patrick Colglazier will not let you into any meeting of the Alameda County Central Committee of the AIP.

    You have your Constitution Party of California with
    all of 157 electors. Why not be productive and try to
    get some of the additional 102,847 registered electors you still need to get your Constitution Party
    of California on the Ballot in 2012.

    Please just go away!

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg
    Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

    States any more.

  64. Don Grundmann

    Mark – A) I am the Chairman of the Alameda County Central Committee. I listen to nothing that the ultra corrupt Patrick Colglazier claims as he, like you, is an outright liar. B) The lawsuit(s) will continue. C) An extra action, which should have been done long ago, will be soon taken against your Criminal Syndicate. D) You continue to lie about the lawyers. If what you say is true the judge would never have even listened to them ( or, as in his case, pretended to ) or accepted their legal briefs. No judge would have accepted them. Yet another demonstrable and outright lie by you. Have your fake, and very short, moment in the sun. Before you go to Hell permanently you and the rest of your Criminal Syndicate will still face justice in this life for your crimes.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  65. Mark Seidenberg

    Don Grundmann.

    The American Independent Party has had no affliation with the Constitution Party since June 27,
    2008. You are not chairman or hold any office in the AIP. Patrick Colglazier is the elected Alameda
    County Chairman of the American Independent
    Party.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  66. paulie Post author

    B) The lawsuit(s) will continue.

    The lawsuits will continue until the morale improves.

    The morale will continue until the lawsuits improve.

  67. AyatollahGondola

    Mr Gundmann,

    Sorry to hear things are not going well for you.
    I’ll offer some advice that might lessen your burden and possibly lead to an improvement.
    Dump the nightingale load. I know you think she’s an attraction to your causes that you can’t live without, but I can tell you from experience that no one is indespensable, and she was highly overrated as far as that goes. You could probably get the same amount of attention from one of those sign wavers without even a portion of the baggage and drama.
    good luck to you

  68. Cody Quirk

    Andy, it seems that how this works is, the Noonan/Robinson/Seidenberg faction holds a kangaroo-court convention where they steal all the offices and don’t let anybody contest them. Then the real AIP, the King/Grundmann/Nightingale faction, files a bunch of amateur-hour lawsuits that don’t get anywhere because of stupid technicalities. If the CP-aligned faction could just get its act together, it could wrest back control of the ballot line through the courts. I’m not sure that would be possible through the convention, since the policy is basically that the Keyes faction can steal the seats however they want, and the CP faction has no legal recourse because they’re too stupid to file their court papers properly.

    = Unfortunately, I have to agree with you.
    If the IAP’s Hansens were in California instead of Nevada, this mess would’ve never have happened in the first place; they would’ve known what to do.
    I indeed am disappointed in how the attempts to return democracy and majority rule back to the AIP have failed. But I’m equally as disappointed in how the Jim King faction had obviously gone at this the wrong way and should consider either trying a new strategy, or simply get better involved with participating in the meetings that the Seidenberg faction would hold.

  69. Don Grundmann

    Cody – Relevant to your post above –

    A) Any meetings that the Robinson Crime Syndicate holds are designed to deny the right to vote to anyone who would challenge their corruption in any way. They know that they would lose any honest vote.

    B) The ” Jim King faction,” i.e.; the REAL AIP, has done nothing wrong in its approach and strategy. An honest court would long ago have stopped the corruption of Robinson. Unfortunately our court system, as I learned years ago, is riddled with corruption; something which Robinson and Siedenberg have heavily relied upon.

    C) ” files a bunch of amateur-hour lawsuits that don’t get anywhere because of stupid technicalities.”

    Response – None of the suits filed have been ” amateur-hour.” They have been well crafted but have been stopped by many outrageous tactics of Robinson ( such as calling for depositions and then failing to show up ) in addition to the lack of judicial integrity which is at the heart of the problem.

    D) ” they’re too stupid to file their court papers properly ”

    Response – Papers were indeed filed properly. Of course the outright liar Mark Seidenberg will continuously claim otherwise just as he continuously, and ludicrously, claims that our attorneys were not licensed to practice law. Just remember the basics – Seidenberg is the crystallization of corruption. He eats, sleeps, and breathes lying. He does not stop lying. He does it 24/7. When you remember that basic fact then you can truly understand the countless fake claims that he has made and will continue to make.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  70. Jose C.

    Kind of difficult to do that

    This is so but the Constitution Party has no choice. It is time to suck it up and get moving. Something similar happened in the past. In 1978 Ed Clark as candidate for Governor of the Libertarian Party of California (he was on the ballot as an independent) received more than 2% of the vote which should have given the Libertarian Party ballot access. The Secretary of State disagreed and said no. The Party in California sued the state. The court ruled against the Party. There was an appeal, the state won the appeal, the Party appealed the second ruling . . . After all the legal wrangling was over and the courts rulled against the Libertarian Party and denied the party ballot access the Libertarian Party had to suck it up and in 1979 – 1980 do a ballot access drive which was successful. And Ed Clark was on the ballot as the Presidential candidate.

    The Constitution Party should cut its losses and do a ballot drive.

  71. Mark Seidenberg

    Cody Quirk

    You are wrong. I am not now nor ever have been in a faction of the American Independent Party.
    I have been the Vice Chairman of the AIP since
    September, 2006.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  72. Mark Seidenberg

    Cody Quirk

    Since I am not in a faction, how can the “Jim King faction” participate in meetings that will never happen, since there is no Seidenberg faction?

    You stated “If the AIP’s Hansens were in California
    instead of Nevada, the mess would ‘ve never have
    happened in the first place; they would’ve know what to do.” Wow, I would like to know what you
    are asseverating about? How would the locations
    of the Hansens have any thing to do with “the mess?” Also what is the mess?

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  73. Mark Seidenberg

    Don Lake

    Background, Danial M. Hansen passed away in 2002. If he was in California, he would of not died in Nevada in an automobile crash. Now
    if JFK was in California in 1963 when he was
    shot in Texes, he would not be dead.

    Cody Quirk is now into alternative history.

    Let see, If Gary Odom did not get drunk and
    and arrested for DUI in 2005, Jim Gilchrist
    would have got elected to Congress and Don
    Grundmann would be the “favorate son”
    at Kansas City in his own mind in 2008 and would of been the President of the United States.
    So there would be no need for a birther movement.

    Again Cody what does the Hansens being in California and not Nevada have do do with any
    thing REAL? We know to Don Grundmann every thing not in is messed up mind is fake,
    viz, fake telecoms, fake meeting, fake
    votes, fake meeting of the State Central Committee, Fake Phones, etc.

    I am personally sad by the passing of Dan Hansen, he was a great National Chairman of the
    AIP.

    If the Constitution Party of California wants to
    be on the California Ballot in 2012, the current
    157 need to get organized have an election of
    offices without the Greundmann’s, viz., Don & Ida.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg,
    Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  74. paulie Post author

    Jose C.,

    In 1979-80 the LP had Koch money, as well as many more dues payers, active members and volunteers nationwide and in California than the Constitution Party does now. The Constitution Party simply does not have those kind of resources to draw on. That might change if they get a well known and/or wealthy presidential candidate, but that is even less likely to happen than legal victory. There’s a very good chance that they will once again not be on the California ballot, as well.

  75. Mark Seidenberg

    paulie

    What do you think the game plan is of the National Constitution Party in California. It now stands (February 10, 2011) with electors
    at 157 in the Constitution Party of California.

    You have it’s Chairman Don Grundmann as a
    presidential wantabe in 2012 against former
    Congressman Goode. Clymer will be backing
    Goode. I expect soon that Don Grundmann
    will post a website “The corruption of Goode”
    to help Grundmann on his race to the White House.

    I believe Mr. Goode is a fine man, but I know
    Grundmann and he will attack any one or “thing” that stands in his way to be President
    of the United States. Note in Grundmann view
    people that do not support him must be sub-human. He calls the people that do not support
    Grundmann for President as “rats”, “weasels”
    etc.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  76. paulie Post author

    I am not now nor ever have been in a faction of the American Independent Party.
    I have been the Vice Chairman of the AIP since
    September, 2006.

    Repeat three times, click your heels, and you’ll be in Kansas 🙂

  77. paulie Post author

    What do you think the game plan is of the National Constitution Party in California.

    Continue suing y’all, and try to get a presidential candidate with some money and/or name recognition to make getting ballot access on their own potentially feasible if the lawsuits keep failing.

    Don Grundmann as a
    presidential wantabe in 2012 against former
    Congressman Goode. Clymer will be backing
    Goode.

    I don’t think the field is nearly so set.

    I’ve seen speculation about a large number of different possible candidates. I have no idea who Clymer will be backing.

    Hopefully, someone who is against the wars, occupations, foreign aid and military interventions in foreign countries.

    He calls the people that do not support
    Grundmann for President as “rats”, “weasels”
    etc.

    Really? Does he call people who supported Chuck Baldwin those things?

  78. Mark Seidenberg

    paulie

    The answer is yes and more. I have hear Grundmann call people that were backing, Templin, Mad Max, Keyes, , Corsi, & Baldwin
    names. Any one that was backing someone else
    from President of the United States in 2008.

    Remember, Grundmann suffers from Noonan
    Syndrome two way. Short stature and being
    overwhelmed politically by Ed Noonan.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  79. Mark Seidenberg

    paulie,

    What do you think the next forum the next case
    will be in. We now it will not be in Sacramento or
    Fairfield.

    Do you think that Grundmann will go to a higher
    quality lawfirm where the lawyer are admitted to
    the California Bar at the getgo. In the case of Kings lawyer he was not admitted to the California Bar until April 21, 2010 for suits starting on March 9, 2009.

    Grundmann knows very well that King can get all
    his money back from the lawyer for the UPL.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  80. paulie Post author

    No idea on any of that whatsoever, and I’m not sure why you are asking me in particular. I’m not in any way privy to or knowledgeable on their legal strategy.

  81. Mark Seidenberg

    paulie

    The action would be called ACTION FOR THE DISGURGEMENT OF FEES and it would be filed
    in the LOS ANGELES SUPERIOR COURT on
    First Street in Los Angeles before the Presiding
    Judge of Los Angeles County after the UPL
    has been determined by the Superior Court of
    Los Angeles County.

    I hope that answered your question.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg

    Please note this is not legal advise. It is just for
    educational interest.

  82. paulie Post author

    The only question I had was why you were addressing this to me in particular. I neither know, nor have any interest in, those kind of details.

  83. Mark Seidenberg

    paulie

    You state you did not know legal strategy and I though you were asking what followed an ACTION FOR THE UNAUTHORIZED PRACTICE OF LAW.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party.

  84. paulie Post author

    I stated that @97 in response to your question @ 96, and did not ask any questions, although I asked by implication @97 and explicitly @99 why you were addressing that to me @ 96 and @ 98.

  85. Mark Seidenberg

    paulie

    One thing the Constitution Party of California needs to consider is get people registered now
    vs. later. SB 205 is having a hearing on March 15, 2011 at 1:30p.m. If passed and effective
    it will make it a crime to register voters for pay
    per elector.

    Constitution Party has a total of 157 in only 18 counties. It would require all the current electors to collect each near 700 new votes with
    out paying them per registration of a votes in very limited counties.

    Under the legal problems, I would suggest that
    they need to do a two tear approach. viz., Collect
    both person for joining a new party and getting
    electors who would like a choice to sign to let
    the Constitution Party of California. That would
    require 1,o3o,o40 signatures, but the cut off time is later in September, 2011. Remember the
    Constitution Party also needs 1/15 of 1% of the
    voters registered to remain on the ballot as
    a qualified poliitical Party.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg

  86. paulie Post author

    See my previous comments. There’s no chance in hell they have enough people and resources now to get a hundred thousand plus voter registrations.

    I wouldn’t even bother with anything having to do with over a million signatures.

    Hopefully, the idiotic legislation about not paying people will be defeated in the legislature.
    If not, it should certainly be thrown out as unconstitutional by the courts.

    The Constitution Party has two plausible paths to be on the California ballot in 2012:

    1. Keep suing you and hope they eventually win

    or

    2. Recruit a well known and/or well off presidential candidate and pay people to register a lot of voters and/or get the candidate on the ballot as an independent (non-partisan) presidential candidate.

    Otherwise, and this is highly likely, they will not be on the ballot at all in 2012 once again.

    Anything else is living in fantasy world.

    These statements are based on extensive experience with such things.

    There is really nothing else that I have to say about this.

  87. Don Grundmann

    Mark – Another day and your continuous stream of lies goes on. A) I, in this battle against your evil, only call you, plus Robinson and Noonan, a rat; and this because that is is exactly what you are and far more. I also call, for example, Nancy Pelosi a rat but, while she is also a pathological liar, she is far more honest than you. She doesn’t pretend to be a Republican or a conservative. You, on the opposite hand, pretend to be a conservative while working to destroy the conservative movement and promoting such atrocities/abominations such as abortion and homosexuality for your controllers/handlers of the ADL and the SPLC. B) Long ago the previous judge shot down your fool/nitwit/idiot claim that our lawyers were not authorized to practice law. Yet you drone on and on and on with the same idiotic lie. Just to lie for the sake, and enjoyment, of lying. C) ” The answer is yes and more. I have hear Grundmann call people that were backing, Templin, Mad Max, Keyes, , Corsi, & Baldwin names. Any one that was backing someone else from President of the United States in 2008.” This is a, yet again and another, outright lie in regard to Templin, Corsi, Mad Max, and Baldwin. I have, of course, written about Keyes as being, as you are, a traitor, mole, and liar that he is. D) ” fake meeting, fake votes, fake meeting of the State Central Committee.” All of the things which a true jury trial will expose that you conducted. E) I call you ” sub-human ” since that is exactly what you are. You exist in an entirely different world from the rest of humanity as they, as a general rule, work to elevate themselves and hopefully humanity as a whole. In total contrast you open your eyes and then spend your entire day lying and working to betray minimally the nation and in truth humanity as a whole. You are one of those classic evil things ( not humans ) that actually enjoys the suffering of others. Totally without the slightest shred of conscience. I have met many evil people but few as profoundly evil and as evil to the core as you.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  88. Don Grundmann

    ” Don Lake, FYI, not necessarily a unilateral endorcement // Mar 13, 2011 at 11:52 am

    ……….. making it up as he goes along ……..”

    Response – Lake – As before you accuse others of doing exactly what you do. You are, as with your friend Seidenberg, a profound and outright liar. It is certainly no accident that you are friends. You are both corrupt to the bone and beyond.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  89. Mark Seidenberg

    Paulie

    If SB 210 passes the legilature, how low will it take a test case through the United States Supreme Court. Could this happen before September 5, 2011?

    On the other hand even if SB 210 passes, the
    collection of the 10 percent could get the party
    qualified.

    How could it continue with someone getting a TRO against paying for the signatures?

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg
    Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  90. Mark Seidenberg

    Don Grundmann

    You now state you only called four persons rats.
    Again what did you call Mary Robinson after she
    walked out of court room in the King vs. Robinson case.

    For those that do not know, Mary Robinson is
    a senior citizen and the wife of former AIP
    party chairman Markham Robinson,

    Why were you following her out of the court room and out of the court house and then down
    the street after calling her a sorts of vile names?

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg
    Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  91. Mark Seidenberg

    Don Lake,

    I am sorry you are being subject to this from
    Don Grundmann.

    I thank you for agreeing to be on the American
    Independent Party State Central Committeeman, Don Grundmann gave up his
    six year seat on September 3, 2006 for a National Committeeman seat of two years.
    Why I do not know.

    You are serving the remained of Don Grundmann’s remaining term.

    Grundmann has not been on the State Central
    Committee since September 2, 2008.

    Grundmann claims he is the Chairman of the
    American Independent Party as a branch of the
    Constitution Party.

    It is a violation of law in California to have a fusion party since 1959. I can not see how Grundmann got a following of 157 electors.

    Mr. Partrick Colglazier is the County Chairman
    of the Alameda County Central Committee. Grundmann has nothing to do with any part of
    the American Independent Party.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg,
    Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

  92. Mark Seidenberg

    Paulie A tour around the internet shows Don Grundman calling many people as “rats”, but every one he also
    claims is Mark Seidenberg using a fake name.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman. American Independent Party

  93. Cody Quirk

    You stated “If the AIP’s Hansens were in California
    instead of Nevada, the mess would ‘ve never have
    happened in the first place; they would’ve know what to do.” Wow, I would like to know what you
    are asseverating about? How would the locations
    of the Hansens have any thing to do with “the mess?” Also what is the mess?

    = You’re smart, or supposedly you are, I’ll leave it up to you to figure out.

    Background, Danial M. Hansen passed away in 2002. If he was in California, he would of not died in Nevada in an automobile crash. Now
    if JFK was in California in 1963 when he was
    shot in Texes, he would not be dead.
    Cody Quirk is now into alternative history.

    = Wow Mark, did you not notice the ‘S’ at the end of ‘Hansens’?
    Dan is not the only member of that family involved in politics you idiot!

  94. paulie Post author

    Well, you posted on another thread I believe America’s Party dropped “independent” to avoid being confused with the CA AIP, the remnant of George Wallace’s party.

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