James Antle has an article on Gary Johnson’s switch to the Libertarian Party up at The American Conservative magazine website.
Independent Political Report
Covering third parties and independent candidates since 2008
James Antle has an article on Gary Johnson’s switch to the Libertarian Party up at The American Conservative magazine website.
Gary Johnson represents what all the others lack. He wants to reform income tax, he wants to reform arcane drug laws, he wants to balance the budget. There isn’t anything not to like here. He is rising fast in the Libertarian party and we can likely anticipate him taking the stage in the great debate. When Americans see what he has to offer, history will be made.
Yea, but does he want to bring the military home from overseas?
@1 He supports the fraud tax. He supports leaving prisoners in the Guantanamo Gulag. His campaign is $150,000 in debt.
GP, have determined whether GJ is one of those “stupid” Ls who doesn’t buy into AGW? Have you determined whether your candidate Wrights is “stupid” on that issue?
He wants to reform income tax
But not in a good way, unfortunately
he wants to reform arcane drug laws, he wants to balance the budget.
Which LP candidates don’t?
There isn’t anything not to like here.
See @3
we can likely anticipate him taking the stage in the great debate.
15% in September polls? Dream on.
I want to like the guy, I really do, and chances are I will end up fully supporting him when/if he is the eventual nominee, which is very likely.
Unlike some characters in the LP he doesn’t repulse me, but, he will fail to make a difference in the election if he can’t justify 3 things:
1. Why would we want to come up/work hard towards a new tax system, which isn’t really much better than our current one? The problem is really spending, but… I would recommend that we at least go to a flat state tax, where the state sends money to fund the limited (very limited) Federal government. But the real debate is just why another tax scheme? We don’t need one.
2. Gitmo… his stance was bad… really bad, and it shows he doesn’t understand civil liberties, and he really doesn’t understand the wars. It’s not enough to say that the wars cost too much, he needs to understand they are morally wrong and create terror, how you can you side with the idea of people being kept in a prison indefinitely is crazy? Or until the end of the WAR (what war?), even crazier.
3. He needs to explain how he gives the perfect libertarian answer in regards to Syria, but if you ask what should we do about Israel he has a completely different answer? Do we need to go through a list of every country to see where his allegiance lies or where his libertarian compass guides him?
Just seems strange to have a policy of “it’s none of our business” “it’s a civil war”, “we can’t afford it” and then without hesitating remove all of those things from the equation when it’s a different country, one that I don’t want a dollar of my money spent to defend, and I certainly don’t want my children dying for.
We are not the world’s police.
If he can’t justify/clarify these three things, I don’t think he stands a chance to bring the throngs of Ron Paul people on board, they wont donate, they wont go out and work for him, etc.. and then that’s the end of that.
Though, I really believe that our Libertarian candidate is as much about education as anything, but if he isn’t educating people in some sort of consistent libertarian way…. who cares?
He can’t be shown to be a flip-flopper or have no real backbone on some of these tough libertarian issues. Foreign Policy is a big one, and he needs to be able to call out the wars for what they are, or it will be hard to take him seriously on other issues.
Johnson’s actual position: “Individuals detained by the U.S., whether it be at Guantanamo Bay or elsewhere, must be given due process via the courts or military tribunals, and must not be held indefinitely without regard to those fundamental processes.”
Libertarians get misrepresented enough by non-Libertarians. Do we have to do it too?
How can you have due process through military tribunals?
@9 you can’t – you can only have a “show trial” in which you are found guilty!
Mr Holtz may love military show trials, but the rest of us think it is unAmerican.
@7
John –
1) I agree the “FairTax” bills has some serious flaws to it – mainly the “prebate” program so that it is not regressive which seems to me to be invasive and clumsy (but likely preferable to making exemptions for some “essential” goods while raising the tax rate to a super high rate on non-essentials) – but simplifying tax code to one transparent consumption tax does in fact provide a number of advantages over our current cluster-f of a system to me. One is that it makes all pay into the system whether they are residents or visitors – so that it ends problems related to immigrants not paying for public services that they might be using. Next by making it transparent and a single tax – it makes political suicide to ever advocate for raising it. It ends having special interest add loop holes or breaks for themselves into law as happens over and over in our current tax code. It also makes exports more competitive and bringing business back to the USA more attractive by making a 0% effective corporate tax rate. The thing I’ve learned from speaking with GJ that he is in fact open to hearing from Libertarians plans on how to make a consumption tax non-regressive and better structured than what exists in the current FairTax bill. From my few conversations with him I’d say he is a realist in terms of whether the FairTax bill could pass Congress now (he doesn’t think it would) – but he wants to get the conversation going as to how we can reform our tax structures towards ways that do in fact make more sense. And with $15Trillion and rising worth of national debt and a Congress unable to come up with even close to a balanced budget – I’d say advocating ending the income tax and replacing it with nothing without doing a transition towards this means advocating default or hyper-inflation – things we might be heading to anyway – but to rush into these immediately would completely undermine the lives and liberty of the vast majority of Americans – so I’d say the “revenue neutral” part of the FairTax while not a Libertarian goal by any means actually makes a ton of sense to do at this point.
2) GJ has stated explicitly that he is absolutely against any form of torture or endless detention being committed in the USA – and that he would have internees in Gitmo tried without delay via either civil trial or military tribunal. I agree with others on this thread that military tribunals do not represent due process – and I think GJ could be swayed towards seeing the correctness of this position and taking this position into the campaign.
3) Gary Johnson has stated in no uncertain terms (speaking directly with me, and in numerous articles, interviews and speeches) that he is completely OPPOSED to giving taxpayer’s money to foreign nations (aka “foreign aid”) in ALL cases (including to Israeli). My understanding is that when GJ speaks of supporting military alliances he means sharing intelligence and coordinating with other nations towards mutually beneficial goals – NOT subsidizing other nation’s military budgets.
Hope that helps clarify his positions.
Mr Holtz may love military show trials
Libertarians get misrepresented enough by non-Libertarians. Do we have to do it too?
Steve@12,
“[The “Fair” Tax] ends having special interest add loop holes or breaks for themselves into law ”
Why on earth would you think anything like that? It already has one huge loophole/break (used products aren’t taxed) in it.
I’d put the over-under on howw long it takes the homebuilders/lenders lobbies to get a new home exemption at about 90 minutes, give or take — however long it takes to do lunch with a congresscritter. The auto-makers will have to settle for doing after-dinner drinks to nail down their exemptions.
Thomas – the 2nd hand market exemption in facts is a huge part of what little bit the word “fair” actually applies to the FairTax bill as far as I’m concerned. It means you’re taxed only once on any item and that “green” behavior of re-use is encouraged. The fact that everyone is going to cheat and everyone is going to lobby for their special interest is a given with any society. The thing to me is that in a paradigm of reset/start-over you’re at least in a better place than post-decades worth of corruption and tomes of unfathomable legislation and regulation piled on. Obviously ommv.
@10 I have heard that the defendant can be found “not guilty,” but the president can still choose to keep him locked up. Sounds like something from Kafka to me.
Steven,
I’m not disputing the claim that the used exemption is one of the few not-completely-insane parts of the “Fair” Tax.
It is, nonetheless, an exemption/loophole — and there will be 20 more by the time the bill passes and another 200 by the time the ink dries on it.
Just for the record, I got the GJ’s stance on Gitmo directly from the horses mouth, when Gary came to speak in Denton Texas. There were about 80 people there who can verify the conversation, so if he has changed his position… great.
However, since this was less than a year ago, I think we are going to have to put a small grain of salt with his change of direction.
However we should also put of grain of salt towards the idea that understanding why Gitmo is wrong isn’t something that most of us needed to learn within the last year.
Just sayin’
In regards to foreign policy (and Israel), I will guarantee that if asked point blank “What should we do about Israel” his answer would not be the same as his answer in regards to Syria.
Let’s ask him and find out.
The answer in regards to the Fair Tax, helps to explain why being so “gung ho” about another “tax scheme” is such a weird thing, seriously, pick your battles. This is not one we should be taking on, the issue when asked about taxes should be spending. And then getting the Federal government reigned in by not allowing them to just take our money … for anything, no income tax, no fair tax. States should flat tax, (everyone, no exemptions) and then send the to the Federal government what their share should be for the services (constitutional services) they provide.
If you don’t believe the Fair Tax will pass, then there is no reason not to support an even simpler plan in regards to taxes.
Lastly if you want to hear me go in more detail in regards to Gary Johnson, you can check out 3/1/2012 episode of Freedom Fried on http://www.ronpaulradio.com in the archives:
http://www.ronpaulradio.com/
Gary Johnson is “The BEST Job Creator of Them All.” – National Review Online: visit http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/coalitions/jobs
Former two-term Highly Successful Gov. Gary Johnson had a BETTER Jobs Creation performance in office than Romney and Obama combined. There was a 11.6 % increase in private sector jobs (the ones that count) under Gary Johnson’s administration.
Got Jobs? Johnson, Romney, Obama – http://garyjohnsongrassrootsblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/charles-lupton-created-nice-job-growth.html
Gary Johnson on jobs:
“The fact is, I can unequivocally say that I did not create a single job while I was governor,”
“We are proud of this distinction. We had a 11.6 percent job growth that occurred during our two terms in office. But the headlines that accompanied that report – referring to governors, including me, as ‘job creators’ – were just wrong.”
“we kept government in check, the budget balanced, and the path to growth clear of unnecessary regulatory obstacles.”
“My priority was to get government out of the way, keep it out of the way, and allow hard-working New Mexicans, entrepreneurs and businesses to fulfill their potential,”
“Summarizing: Gary doesn’t accept the fallacy that job creation is something that the government can do.” -Rui Nobre Pinheiro
Spread the word about Gary Johnson
What is a better, smarter and more cost-efficient America worth to you?
Exactly. Do what you can to spread the word.
Gary Johnson 2012: Meet Gary Johnson – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boHvCmRm3SQ&feature=related
https://donate.garyjohnson2012.com
Why would we want to come up/work hard towards a new tax system, which isn’t really much better than our current one?
It’s actually worse.
“Mr Holtz may love military show trials”
Libertarians get misrepresented enough by non-Libertarians. Do we have to do it too?
I don’t want to misrepresent anyone but this question remains unanswered (except by those who say it’s not possible)
How can you have due process through military tribunals?
How can you have due process through military tribunals?
Sounds like a great question for the next Gary Johnson online townhall meeting.
He’ll be at the California convention this weekend. I understand that several of the people who read this regularly live in California, and that some of them will be there. I hope someone records an answer.
Ted Brown // Mar 2, 2012:
“@10 I have heard that the defendant can be found “not guilty,” but the president can still choose to keep him locked up. Sounds like something from Kafka to me.” [or North Korea, or Syria ……]
@25 We are headed down that road.
I’ll be at the convention. I’ll try to check in here every few hours.
If you get a chance to ask Johnson some questions please report back.
Why gung ho on overhauling our tax system?
Because I just received 60 pages of “Employer’s Tax Guide” from the IRS. If the FairTax bill were to pass I wouldn’t be getting that.
I’d instead get a one page letter saying, if you have retail sales/services then collect 30% sales tax on it and send it into your state taxing authority.
As for used goods having an exemption — the consumption tax was already paid on the good when it was sold new so reselling it as a used good 1) would be double taxation 2) be a lot more complicated because anytime someone sells something on Craig’s List or in a yard sale they would have to collect a sales tax on it and one of the goals of the FairTax bill is to make our tax system much less complicated.
There are still a couple issues with it 1) the one big exemption is educational services aren’t taxed 2) the 16th Amendment should be repealed before the initiation of the full FairTax bill. 3) I’d like to see the pre-bate be 75% of the poverty level which would save about 100B.
@29: And the biggest issue, that it’s a Libertarian candidate arguing for the imposition of a tax.
Hardy @ 29 Why gung ho on overhauling our tax system?
people have been talking about simplifying the tax code for years going back to the time JFK was in office and sometimes something happens.
The LP and its candidates need to focus on cutting government. Bringing the troops home from abroad, reducing the handouts to agribusiness, corporations, and on and on and on.
Neither the Repugs or the Demos want to talk about bringing the troops home.
Don’t bet on it. Legislation as proposed =/= legislation as passed and implemented, and the “sunset clause”
for the income tax will almost certainly either be stripped out or habitually pushed back time after time.
It’s a massive universal entitlement program which will only grow over time. Even if someone pays no tax at all – say by growing their own food and buying only used items – they still get a government check, unless of course they are someone who does not use an SS number for religious or other reasons, in which case they are screwed.
Getting virtually everyone used to getting a government check all the time is pretty much a death knell to ever hoping to seriously cut government.
So’s a sales tax on everyone who saved money and paid income tax for many years. Then when they spend the money years later they get whacked again.
Congressman Paul if elected president would propose cutting a trillion in government in 2013; Governor Gary Johnson would cut 1.4 trillion. So it can’t be said Mr. Johnson isn’t focusing on spending. It’s one of his 3 promises, after all: to make the 43% in cuts to balance the budget immediately. His record as Governor Veto backs his convictions – that he’ll do what he says.
On taxes, who in their right minds wants to continue living in fear of a income tax audit? If the national government’s going to continue under a Libertarian president then why not advocate for a tax system that collects revenue when one buys something, instead of the tyrannical “guilty-until-proven-innocent” income tax? If you want to lobby during that great debate to abolish the prebate or cut the rate, I’ll support you. But to say it’s not libertarian to advocate for taxing sales instead of income would lose a golden opportunity to remove a toe of the boot of govt from our necks.
As for Guantanomo, all the governor has said on enemy combatants is that they should’nt be tortured or detained without due process. He hasn’t ruled out non-military trials for them. As someone above suggested, in his next online townhall ask him if he’d support non-military trials as part of the due process he’s promised enemy combatants.
On foreign aid, he’s opposed to it. Period. And as we pull our troops home and cut 43% of the Pentagon, he’d rely on allies to deal with overseas threats. If such threat impacted our national security, he’d take it to Congress for a war declaration. And just because an ally attacks a neighbor doesn’t mean we have to join in its folly.
There are issues on the margin the governor will change, if convinced. So convince him. He was convinced the Death Penalty was bad, so he stopped supporting it. He was for civil unions before marriage equality, but he was convinced for practical and moral reasons not to deny marriage to gay couples. If you think the income tax is great, convince him. If you think repealing our treaty alliances is great, convince him. If you think due process isn’t enough to protect detainees, convince him. Do the convincing in the next online townhall. He’s been convinced there before, and maybe you’ll be the one to do it next.
PPP has the governor at 7% nationally – half way to the 15% required for debate invitations. Join your state’s campaign director and let’s make a good showing for the LP this Fall: http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/state-contacts
On taxes, who in their right minds wants to continue living in fear of a income tax audit?
Who wants to have all their purchases tracked so as to cut down on sales tax evasion? Who wants to have most Americans receiving monthly government checks while the tax is (probably) going to just be included in the shelf price of goods, so even more people think they get something for nothing from the government – and some of them in fact will? Who wants seniors double taxed on the money they saved after paying the income tax all their life?
And if you get rid of the "prebate" people will say it's regressive.
As for Guantanomo, all the governor has said on enemy combatants is that they should’nt be tortured or detained without due process.
No, that’s not all he said.
Most of these comments don’t reflect the fact that Gary Johnson lives in reality and is the best electable candidate for America. It’s happening and we all need to support him.
His track record as Governor says it all.
As for the Fair Tax. You abolish the IRS and have states collect the money with the sales tax; hyper efficient, and it’s a non-issue until he presents his balanced budget to congress for 2013.
Congressmen will be clawing for votes after their inability to effectively respond to Gary’s fiscal responsibility.
What we need to do is rally around him and donate.
As for Israel, hey are an important ally.
Let’s bring the troops home but not be total idiots. Isolationism die before WWI.
chris // Mar 4, 2012:
“As for Israel, hey are an important ally. ”
And documented murderer of American Sailors on non combatant USS Liberty and Gaza strip bound aide workers. All in international waters.
We all live in reality.
He’s not “electable” in the sense of having any real chance to be the next president. The odds against him are about the same as any LP candidate in the recent past or present.
My support has to be earned. As someone who is at this point an uncommitted possible delegate, I suggest that you all earn it rather than tell me what I need to do. I’ll grant that Johnson will probably get the LP nomination even if I vote for someone else, but there are other types of support to earn before and after that.
What will they do about the massive growth of sales tax evasion? What about the so-called “prebate” welfare program? How about the ways people who saved money that was income taxed for many years get walloped?
The Flat Tax Is Not Flat and the FairTax Is Not Fair
http://lewrockwell.com/vance/vance243.html
by Laurence M. Vance
Can a Tax Be ‘Fair’?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance200.html
by Laurence M. Vance
Against the FairTax Proposal
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/cox4.html
by Jim Cox
There Is No Such Thing as a Fair Tax
http://mises.org/daily/1975
by Laurence M. Vance
The Fair Tax Fraud
http://mises.org/daily/1814
by Laurence M. Vance
Laurence Vance on the “Fair Tax” – YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoSeBMwq8tc
The FairTax: A Trojan Horse for America?
http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/fairtax.htm
By Claire Wolfe & Aaron Zelman
Make That the FraudTax
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/fraudulent-tax.html
by Laurence M. Vance
Dear Congressman
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance83.html
by Laurence M. Vance
The FairTax Scam
http://lewrockwell.com/orig6/fair-tax.html
by Laurence M. Vance
What’s Offensive in the Boortz FairTax Book
http://www.lewrockwell.com/cox/cox8.html
by Jim Cox
The Crackpot FairTax Trade
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/cox6.html
by Jim Cox
"Why the FairTax is a Sham" by Allen Buckley
"A FairTax Primer" by RobFromGa.
"The Unfair FairTax" by LittleDavid
"March of the FairTax Sheep" by John Sugg
"Debunking The FairTax Myth" by CrellMosett (Daily KOS)
"Boot Boortz" by Justin Raimondo
"Perfectly Legal: The Covert Campaign to Rig Our Tax System to Benefit the Super Rich – and
Cheat Everybody Else" by David Cay Johnston
"Death by a Thousand Cuts: The Fight over Taxing Inherited Wealth" by Michael J. Graetz
Since he won’t be presenting a budget in 2013, it’s his advocacy of it which is an issue now.
Where’s the treaty of alliance?
Isolationism opposes free trade and open immigration. I support them. In what ways did the disastrous involvement of the US in WW1 negate non-interventionist foreign policy? In my view it only strengthens the argument for non-interventionism, and the only thing that’s idiotic is to think that it makes a case for the US world police making the world a better place.
If not for the US jumping into WW1 – I won’t even go into its domestic effects – there would have been a negotiated truce that would have ended the war earlier, essentially as a stalemate. Germany would nut have been crushed under punishing sanctions which set the stage for Hitler coming to power. The Bolsheviks may also have been prevented from taking power in Russia.
He may “live in reality” in the colloquial sense, but you do not if you believe he stands any serious chance of being elected.