New Johnson ad: “Choice, it’s what’s for dinner.”

War in Afghanistan?

Obama : Yes.

Romney: Yes.

Governor Gary Johnson:

Bring our troops home NOW.

 

Abolish the IRS?

Obama : No.

Romney: No.

Governor Gary Johnson:

End income, corporate and capital gains tax,

Replace them with a fair tax.

 

Medical Marijuana? End the Drug War?

Obama : No.

Romney: No.

Governor Gary Johnson:

Regulate marijuana like alcohol;

End the disastrous drug war.

 

Dogs?

(Sorry, you’ve got to watch the video for this one . . .)

38 thoughts on “New Johnson ad: “Choice, it’s what’s for dinner.”

  1. Joe Buchman Post author

    @1 Thanks Eric, I was just about to post that!

    So I did . . .

    🙂

    @ 2 — all it takes is $$$$ at this point.

    Joe

  2. paulie

    I don’t think it was from the official campaign, rather another grassroots video.

    Very nice except I’d have left out the “fair” tax (grrrr) but I understand why it’s in there.

  3. Robert Capozzi

    6 p, thanks. This is an excellent illustration of why campaigns should be run by pros. Well intended effort here, but off the mark.

  4. Paulie

    Actually, overall Jeremy K.’s ads have been better than most of the official campaign’s ads (not that either is perfect but we can’t expect perfection here).

    Hopefully there will be a lot more unofficial ads/videos and different people will join in and make some.

  5. Robert Capozzi

    8 p, there’s no accounting for taste. I watched this before I saw your comment, and I was wincing, thinking “huge step backwards.”

    Perhaps our different perceptions are a function of where our heads are at. As a lessarchist, I recoil from bombast.

  6. Robert Capozzi

    more….

    And yet I thought Be L with Me was close to well done, despite the fact that it is quite bombastic. Pulling of bombast requires some subtlety, else it just looks like crazy people acting out.

  7. Andy

    “Governor Gary Johnson:

    End income, corporate and capital gains tax,

    Replace them with a fair tax.”

    This makes me cringe every time I see or hear it.

  8. NewFederalist

    I agree with #11 BUT for those of us who plan to vote in November… who is a better choice? I believe not voting sends no message at all. It can be interpreted so many different ways. If one wants to shove it up the duopoly’s bum vent then who is the better protest vote?

  9. Joe Buchman

    Andy @ 11 — In the fuller context of what I’ve heard him say a few times on the campaign trail now, it’s a step toward Liberty, better than the mess we have now, at least in eliminating so much government waste and cost in government workers for the IRS. Then the focus could be on lowering that percentage of sales tax, rather than working to manage the incomprehensible tax code we have now.

    I see it as a step in the right direction. A small one, but one that at least cuts the cost of the government doing what it has to do until the debt is paid off and the size cut dramatically.

    I think that’s where Gary is coming from. It’s what I’ve heard him say in longer-form venues.

  10. paulie

    “Governor Gary Johnson:

    End income, corporate and capital gains tax,

    Replace them with a fair tax.”

    This makes me cringe every time I see or hear it.

    I like the rest of it and I even like end income etc tax part of this one.

    So overall, one line that makes me cringe is not the one thing I will focus on.

    I don’t think it’s a step in the right direction, but I can disagree with one thing being said in the ad and still like the overall message.

    Ron Paul had entire official campaign ads that focused on issues that I disagree with him on, such as immigration.

    I even went door to door distributing Ron Paul literature that prominently emphasized that position along with 2-3 others.

    So, I can live with Johnson taking a position I don’t agree with and still support him.

  11. Andy

    “Joe Buchman // Jun 23, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Andy @ 11 — In the fuller context of what I’ve heard him say a few times on the campaign trail now, it’s a step toward Liberty, better than the mess we have now, at least in eliminating so much government waste and cost in government workers for the IRS. Then the focus could be on lowering that percentage of sales tax, rather than working to manage the incomprehensible tax code we have now.”

    The Fair Tax is most definitely NOT an incremental step to more liberty, at best it is just as bad as the current tax system, and it is actually possible that it could turn out worse than the current tax system.

    I’m not saying that Gary Johnson’s overall platform is bad, but this particular part of it is. Don’t get me wrong, most of Johnson’s platform is good, and he’s probably the best candidate who is going to be on enough ballots to theoretically win the election, but I’m just pointing out that this part of his platform is not good.

  12. Paulie

    he’s probably the best candidate who is going to be on enough ballots to theoretically win the election,

    Definitely, not probably.

    I continue to disagree with him about the “fair” tax, just as I disagree with Dr. Paul about migration limits, but I see both as furthering the libertarian message and offering the voters a choice, so they both get my support, such as it is.

  13. Andy

    “I continue to disagree with him about the ‘fair’ tax, just as I disagree with Dr. Paul about migration limits, but I see both as furthering the libertarian message and offering the voters a choice, so they both get my support, such as it is.”

    It sounds like you don’t understand Ron Paul’s position then. The people who make the claim that Ron Paul is “against immigration” either don’t know what they are talking about or they are intentionally lying.

    Gary Johnson’s position on taxes makes him a far less attractive candidate than Ron Paul. Taxation is the number one issue. Taxes are what funds all of the insanity from government. Every government encroachment on civil liberties is funded via taxation (or through debt/inflation which is ultimately backed up by taxation). Take away taxes and you can’t fund the drug war anymore. Take away taxes and there’s no more TSA groping at the airports. Take away taxes and there are no more wars of aggression in foreign lands. Take away taxes and it doesn’t matter what the government thinks about gay marriage. Ron Paul wants to end the income tax and replace it with nothing, Gary Johnson wants to end a major tax (the federal personal income tax), but then he wants to replace it with another major tax, the so called Fair Tax. The Fair Tax is NOT a libertarian reform. It is NOT an incremental step towards liberty. It’s a 30% National Sales Tax which everyone would have to pay on the purchase of all goods and services. Freaking 30%, and on top of this, the pre-bate checks that come along with it in essence are a vast expansion of the welfare state. This is a horrible plan, and a healthier and more principled Libertarian Party would have rejected Gary Johnson as a candidate over this issue.

    Once again, take away enough taxes and you eliminate any insanity that you can think of which comes from government. Take away all taxes and there’s no more coercive government. This is why taxation is the #1 issue.

    Gary Johnson doesn’t “get it” when it comes to taxes.

  14. Austin Battenberg

    I could be wrong, but I thought it was 20% and not 30%. And that would also take away the income tax so we have more money on our paychecks, and take away the corporate tax so companies can lower the price of their products, so I don’t think just saying “Oh my gawd 30% is soooo much,” is entirely accurate.

  15. Melty

    What’s that bit about dogs referring to?
    I love dog, but I know Romney doesn’t wanna let eat em.
    I don’t get it. Once again, I must be missing something.

  16. Andy

    “NewFederalist // Jun 24, 2012 at 7:37 am

    Andy… who do you prefer in the presidential race?”

    None of the Above.

    “19 Austin Battenberg // Jun 24, 2012 at 8:59 am

    I could be wrong, but I thought it was 20% and not 30%. And that would also take away the income tax so we have more money on our paychecks, and take away the corporate tax so companies can lower the price of their products, so I don’t think just saying ‘Oh my gawd 30% is soooo much,’ is entirely accurate.”

    The Fair Tax is indeed a 30% National Sales Tax. The promoters of it falsely claim that it is a 23% tax, but that’s because they use “fuzzy math” to claim the 23% figure to cover up the fact that it is really a 30% tax.

    I’m not opposed to eliminating the corporate income tax or any other tax, but from a marketing perspective, eliminating the corporate tax while passing a new 30% national sales tax is a horrible idea. This says to the average person, “So Libertarians don’t think that rich corporations should pay taxes, but they want everyone else to pay a 30% national sales tax. The heck with them!”

  17. Andy

    The promoters of the Fair Tax boast that it is revenue neutral, that is that it will bring in just as much money for the government as the income tax brings in, so it does not reduce government. This is reason enough for libertarians to reject the Fair Tax.

  18. Austin Battenberg

    Andy, I’m not arguing with the merits of the fair tax. I agree with you. For me, there is no tax that is “fair”, as it is theft no matter how it is done. However, I would like some things cleared up.

    How can they use fuzzy math to change 30% to 23%?

    And you do realize that they are eliminating the IRS and the income tax too, so its not just for rich corporations, but for middle class too.

    And I understand that no one likes the rebate checks, but that is for the poor so they don’t hold that attitude that you just pointed out that they would have.

    Lastly, I agree we need to shrink government, so revenue neutral is not necessarily a good thing, but isn’t it important that we pay down the debt and balance the budget? I mean, if we reduce revenues, aren’t we hurting ourselves when we need to cut a bare minimum of 43% of all spending?

    Just some thoughts.

  19. Andy

    Murray Rothbard on the concept of a sales tax vs. an income tax: “The consumption tax, on the other hand, can only be regarded as a payment for permission-to-live. It implies that a man will not be allowed to advance or even sustain his own life, unless he pays, off the top, a fee to the State for permission to do so. The consumption tax does not strike me, in its philosophical implications, as one whit more noble, or less presumptuous, than the income tax.”

  20. Andy

    “How can they use fuzzy math to change 30% to 23%?”

    Under the Fair Tax plan, if one purchases a product for $1, the amount of the tax paid under the Fair Tax (not including any state or local sales tax) would be $1.30. This would indicate that the tax rate is 30%, however, the proponents of the Fair Tax claim that it is a 23% tax. How do they calculate this? Because .30 cents is 23% of $1.30. Is this not a deceptive way of calculating and promoting the percentage of the tax? I would say that it clearly is.

    “And you do realize that they are eliminating the IRS and the income tax too, so its not just for rich corporations, but for middle class too.”

    Every person will have to pay the Fair Tax, including those who currently avoid the income tax by working under the table.

    Gary Johnson’s platform calls for eliminating taxes on corporations. I’m not saying that this is a bad thing, because corporate taxes ultimately get passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices, however, the perception by many members of the general public upon hearing this is going to be, “So Libertarians don’t want rich corporations to pay taxes, but they think that everyone should pay a national sales tax. Sales taxes are regressive because they hurt the poor. See, Libertarians are just for rich corporations.”

    I think that the #1 priority for a Libertarian Party candidate should be reducing the size of government. The Fair Tax does not reduce the size of government. It is just as bad – if not worse – than the present tax system.

  21. DSZ

    The prebate bs is the worst part of the FairTax and I wonder if Gary Johnson has thought through it. Wouldn’t it be much easier and more attractive to voters to have a graduated sales tax based on the products you buy? In other words, essential things needed to live get taxed at a lower rate than yachts.

    The one really attractive thing about a sales tax vs. income tax philosophically is that it is far nobler to punish extravagance than wealth. Why tell people it is bad to work towards wealth, when you can punish irresponsible lifestyles regardless of income? Whether you earn $1 million a year or $20,000 a year, buying a new Lambo probably isn’t necessary. Whether the sales tax is the same on all goods or graduated, you’ll of course pay much more for a car than a box of cereal. With the prebate entitlement in place, you can’t make this argument. Granted that all taxes are bad, but a sales tax COULD be a solid sell to the public if worded correctly.

  22. paulie

    It sounds like you don’t understand Ron Paul’s position then. The people who make the claim that Ron Paul is “against immigration” either don’t know what they are talking about or they are intentionally lying.

    Yes, I do understand Ron Paul’s position, and I don’t agree with it. I understand he is not as anti-migrant as some of the other Republicans, but he still comes down on the side of more, not less, control over immigration. That was just one example of his positions that I don’t agree with.

    My larger point was that I can still support Ron Paul despite those differences, and I can still support Johnson while disagreeing with him on tax policy and a few other things. Whereas you seem to think that all that matters is those few issues where I disagree with Johnson while trivializing or dismissing my equally important disagreements with Ron Paul.

    Furthermore, Ron Paul won’t be on the ballot in November and Johnson will be, so even if I thought like you that Ron Paul is better I would still have to support someone who will actually be on the November ballot, which is clearly Johnson. I won’t be supporting Obama, Romney, Stein or Goode and no one else will be on enough ballots to even have a theoretical chance to win.

    So, Johnson it is, and from my perspective anyway there are a lot of good things about him. No, he’s not perfect, neither is Ron Paul, Jesse Ventura or anyone else. And he is actually going to be on the November ballot, unlike any of them.

  23. paulie

    Gary Johnson’s position on taxes makes him a far less attractive candidate than Ron Paul.

    Ron Paul has said he would vote for that same tax plan. We’ve been over this. They are a lot more similar on taxes than you and some other people realize. When Ron Paul says he will replace the income tax with nothing, he is not talking about any short term plan that he has proposed nor about any plan that matches proposals for spending, taxes, and debt reduction as part of a plan with any kind of specifics. He is talking abstractly in the long term and if so, I agree with him and it’s quite possible that Johnson does too, it’s just that Johnson is more focused on the near term.

    Now, I happen to disagree with him that the so called “fair” tax is a step in the right direction, but I can still support him despite this difference.

  24. paulie

    Taxation is the number one issue.

    The most fundamental right people in any country can have is the right to leave. There is no right to leave if no other country lets them come in. And we can’t ask anyone to let us in if we don’t let people come in. Legal immigration laws have to be in line with the supply and demand of the labor market, because labor will go where the market is even if it is illegal. It takes 130 years on average for an unskilled laborer from Mexico or Central America to immigrate to the US legally, which basically means that for most people it is impossible.

    For some people one issue is most important, for some it’s another.

    Ron Paul’s short term plan calls for about 1 trillion in cuts, Johnson’s calls for about 1.4 trillion in cuts, and that spending has to be paid for somehow with taxes or debt (hidden taxes).

    So let’s stop pretending that Ron Paul has any short or medium term plan to get rid of taxes.

  25. paulie

    What’s that bit about dogs referring to?
    I love dog, but I know Romney doesn’t wanna let eat em.
    I don’t get it. Once again, I must be missing something.

    http://spreadingromney.com for the thing about Romney strapping his dog on the roof of his car.
    As for Obama, he said in his autobiography that he ate dog as a child in Indonesia, as was the custom there.

  26. paulie

    Perhaps our different perceptions are a function of where our heads are at. As a lessarchist, I recoil from bombast.

    It really didn’t strike me as that bombastic. Maybe that’s just me.

  27. zapper

    @17 Andy

    You should listen to Paulie. Many of us were and are against the Fair Tax, especially the “prebate.” It very well could be slightly better than what we have now IF we eliminated all other Federal Taxes and instituted the Fair Tax. Strategically it would be a bad idea, however, since we’d be stuck with the prebate for generations.

    If we keep pushing, we will likely get one shot at a major tax overhaul in this generation- so better to eliminate all taxes and institute a consumption tax with no “prebate” and a Constitutional cap of 10% for the rate (without fuzzy math).

    Johnson is still, overall, a good representative for the LP and a good recruiter for the cause of liberty. We should support him and vote for him. Other LP candidates for federal office can promise a national sales tax with no prebate, so to work with Johnson on a modified proposal.
    Or they can advocate to repeal the Income Tax, abolish the IRS and replace it with nothing.

    However, doesn’t Ron Paul’s repeal of the Income Tax leave the Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid taxes in place, along with all import, excise, gasoline, tobacco, alcohol, telephone and other Federal taxes?

    There are no perfect people and no perfect candidates.

    I’m sure that if, come November, a Libertarian army manages to win the House and a number of Senate seats, and passes a 10% national sales tax, eliminates all other taxes, cuts the budget even more than 43%, balances the budget, and refuses to pass a prebate, that President Johnson will sign the legislation.

    (Curious: How much of the 30% sales tax percentage rate is needed to fund the prebate?)

    I opposed the prebate before the nomination and still do – but Johnson is a good candidate overall, despite his flaw on this issue, so he has my support and hopefully yours. You can just say that you support Johnson but oppose the Fair Tax because of the prebate.

    In 2016 we should make sure that our LP POTUS candidate opposes the prebate. A few years between campaigns should give Gary Johnson time to reformulate his position and oppose the prebate too.

  28. Joe Buchman

    Zapper @ 33 and ALL — “You can just say that you support Johnson but oppose the Fair Tax because of the prebate.”

    I can say I oppose anything that’s not voluntary AND I can say I support the Fair Tax because it at least reduces the cost of collecting taxes (reduces waste) by ending the IRS — and thus is a step toward Liberty instead of a step away.

    Or is there some even more efficient way of eliminating the IRS and reducing federal paperwork on our way toward a zero tax rate?

    I’m not being critical here; I honestly don’t know.

    Joe

  29. Paulie

    Sure, there are lots of ways to reduce paperwork. And none of them will end the IRS, because some method to collect and process taxes and ensure compliance will still exist. I prefer ways that don’t institute a new tax since it is a lot easier to start a new tax than to end an existing one or keep it from coming back, so why your intent may be to replace a tax you could end up with both.

  30. Paulie

    Best incremental step may be a flat income tax with a large personal exemption. Get rid of the payroll tax first. Then eventually get rid of the income tax. Get rid of the corporate tax last. Don’t start any new taxes along the way. That could be one approach.

  31. Andy

    Paulie said: “The most fundamental right people in any country can have is the right to leave. There is no right to leave if no other country lets them come in. And we can’t ask anyone to let us in if we don’t let people come in. Legal immigration laws have to be in line with the supply and demand of the labor market, because labor will go where the market is even if it is illegal. It takes 130 years on average for an unskilled laborer from Mexico or Central America to immigrate to the US legally, which basically means that for most people it is impossible.”

    This is point is complete bull. Every government program, including immigration control, is funded via taxation. So take away taxation and you take away immigration control. Take away taxation and you take away every government program that there is. Take away taxation and government ceases to exist.

    So yes, taxation is indeed the number one issue. Taxation trumps everything else.

    Gary Johnson wants to eliminate a really bad tax, and then replace it with another tax that is just as bad if not worse.

    Ron Paul wants to end the income tax and replace it with nothing.

    Ron Paul may have paid lip service to the Fair Tax in one interview, but he’s never gotten behind the Fair Tax. He never signed on to it as a sponsor in Congress, he’s never promoted it, and it is not a part of his campaign platform and he does not advocate it in any of his books.

    The fact that Ron Paul wants to end the income tax and replace it with nothing while Gary Johnson wants to end the income tax and replace it with the Fair Tax makes Ron Paul a better candidate than Gary Johnson. This issue alone puts Ron Paul leaps and bounds ahead of Gary Johnson when it comes to being a libertarian.

    I know that Ron Paul isn’t going to be on the ballot in November, and that Gary Johnson will be on the November ballot, and Gary Johnson may well be the best candidate that is on the ballot for President in November, I’m just pointing out that his position on taxes isn’t that great from a libertarian perspective (or from a libertarian marketing perspective).

  32. Melty

    @31 ah, thanx
    dog is good… …dunno why something trite gets mention on the ad, though.
    Naturally, I’ll gladly vote for Johnson. If not for him, I’d be left with nobody to vote for.
    If people actually voted on issues, not partylines, I wonder if Johnson would win.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *