Threats Fly Between Two LNC Members

Apparent threats to resign, to call for another member’s removal from the LNC for cause, and to cancel a fundraiser fly in recent LNC member emails.

As first reported by IPR at:

http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/06/is-wayne-allyn-root-leaving-the-libertarian-party/

LNC At-Large member Wayne Allyn Root indicated his consideration of a request from his wife to resign his At Large position on the LNC:

From: WAYNE ROOT
Date: May 20, 2012 7:35:14 PM PDT

. . . I was attacked in a way that my own wife saw and was so disgusted she is asking me to leave the party.  “. . . with that response from John Jay Meyers…It’s time to use your time for other endeavors.”  I’m thinking long and hard.

What some reported viewing as a communication from Mr. Root that he had resigned, or was about to resign from the LNC was sent in an email from Mr. Root to Regional Representative Myers approximately 5 weeks later:

From: WAYNE ROOT
Date: June 27, 2012 1:42:58 PM PDT

John,

Time to disassociate from abusive people. . . . I will have nothing further to say or do with you…or anyone who supports this disgusting behavior. . . .You have succeeded in chasing one more good person out of this party.

The above emails in their full context can be found at:

http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/06/is-wayne-allyn-root-leaving-the-libertarian-party/

As well as at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic 

In the following email sent earlier today, Mr. Myers threatens to call for Mr. Root’s removal from the LNC for cause, should he appear as scheduled in the “Defeat Obama Telethon” first reported by IPR at:

http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/06/gary-johnson-and-wayne-root-take-part-in-defeat-obama-telethon/

(Note: the initial headline indicated by the URL above was later edited to correct the inaccurate inclusion of Governor Johnson.)

From: John Jay Myers <johnjaymyers@gmail.com>
Date: July 1, 2012 11:02:23 AM PDT

. . . You are speaking on Wednesday at a fund raising event for Mitt Romney. After which time, if you have not already resigned, I will call for your removal on the grounds of our bylaws.  I believe you already have resigned considering your message from last week.  But if not, we will talk on Thursday.

The relevant Libertarian Party Bylaws provision can be found in Article 8, Paragraph 5 here:

https://www.lp.org/files/2012%20LP%20Bylaws%20and
%20Convention%20Rules%20w%202010%20JC%20Rules.pdf

In the following email to all members of the LNC, reproduced in its entirety below, Mr. Root threatens, if any (emphasis in the original) member of the LNC “would like to remove” him from the LNC, to cancel the reception and fundraiser at his home for the Gary Johnson/Jim Gray campaign that is currently scheduled for Friday, July 13th (not the 15th as incorrectly stated in his email):

From: WAYNE ROOT <wayne@rootforamerica.com>
Date: July 1, 2012 12:11:31 PM PDT

One parting thought for Sunday…

The LNC should think long & hard about this one…

Would you like to remove me before or after my fundraiser at my home for your Presidential candidate?

It’s on Friday July 15th. (sic)

My wife has put in many hours planning Gary’s fundraiser…held during FreedomFest.

Our beautiful home will be Gary’s for the night.

I believe 80 people are confirmed.

So that means by 15th (sic), I’d expect over 100 people- all writing checks for our LP Presidential ticket.

If ANY of you would like to remove me from LNC…as John suggests…

For the sin of accepting 1000 media appearances per year…some of which John doesn’t like…

Lets do it quickly…perhaps Monday (tomorrow)?

So Gary Johnson can find another Vegas venue.

All the Best,

Wayne

 

IPR notes without comment the characterization of Libertarian Presidential Nominee Governor Gary Johnson by one member of the LNC to another member of the LNC as, “your candidate” rather than “our candidate.”

Readers are encouraged to post their conclusions and/or comments in the comments section below and/or to contact their representatives and officers of the LNC directly with any concerns they may have.

Contact information for LNC representatives is available at:

http://www.lp.org/lnc-leadership

Note: The Region 7 alternative position currently listed as “TBD” on that page has been filled as reported by IPR here:

http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/06/iprs-paulie-cannoli-elected-as-lnc-region-7-alternate/

Those seeking to attend the fundraiser can find more information here:

http://www.lpnevada.org/gj2012/ffp

Wayne Allyn Root is a self-described: “REAGAN LIBERTARIAN (and) was the 2008 Libertarian Party Vice Presidential nominee. He is an elected member of the Libertarian National Committee (the #1 vote-getter in the country); serves as Chairman of the Libertarian National Campaign Committee; and Vice Chairman of the Nevada Libertarian Party.”  His website is: http://rootforamerica.com

John Jay Myers is currently a Libertarian Candidate for the United States Senate from Texas, and the LNC Representative for Region 7.  His website is: http://www.johnjaymyers.com

184 thoughts on “Threats Fly Between Two LNC Members

  1. Steven R Linnabary

    IPR notes without comment the characterization of Gary Johnson by one member of the LNC to another member of the LNC as “your candidate” rather than “our candidate.”

    Catching another of Wayne’s faux pas is like shooting fish in a barrel. It has been suggested to him that he have somebody read what he writes, or wait a while and reread what he wrote…

    If Wayne thinks we are brutal and always taking him out of context, just wait and see what the MSM does to him.

    esalamu alaikum

  2. Indy

    Joe you may also wish to note this as part of the same discussion

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LNCDiscussPublic/message/1026

    From: WAYNE ROOT
    Date: July 1, 2012 11:52:38 AM PDT
    To: lnc-discuss@hq.lp.org
    Subject: Re: [Lnc-discuss] Wayne Root for LNC
    Reply-To: lnc-discuss@hq.lp.org

    Driving good people out of the LP. You are one of a kind John!

    I am speaking at a “Defeat Obama Telethon.”

    And I will be promoting the LP with my presence- as always.

    I will make more friends in one appearance than you will all year.

    And I won’t be endorsing Mitt Romney. My only job is to win over like-minded friends by talking about our mutual disgust with Obama.

    Good luck in getting a vote for my removal.

    LOL.

    Keep making a fool of yourself John.

    My #1 rule in life is say YES to every opportunity to win over friends.

    Which is why I say YES to every media opportunity.

    I’ve never turned down a serious media opportunity from the right or the left.

    If a “Telethon to Elect Obama” was foolish enough to ask me to participate…

    I’d gladly go on…and give my point of view.

    In case you didn’t know… I’ve appeared on more liberal/left media than anyone in LP over past 4 years- Thom Hartmann and “The Daily Show” are prime examples.

    So YES I will be doing “the Telethon to Defeat Obama.” And I’ll be making friends for the LP.

    Oh by the way John…to try to stop me would be the biggest embarrassment in LP history…the LP would be labeled as the party of intolerance…that bans free speech…on the front page of the NY Times. Good luck with that!

    As I keep saying…IN PRINT…you have a strategy…I have a strategy…I don’t like yours…but I don’t stop you.

    To stop someone would be a violation of the LP’s no initiation of force principle- the foundation of this party.

    My strategy is big tent and be pragmatic and tolerant…and aim to the right, where people already believe in smaller government.

    Please don’t send any more emails. Everyone is enjoying their Sunday with family, or should be.

    God Bless,

    wayne

  3. Indy

    Someone really should invite Wayne to a telethon to Elect Obama. I bet he would get those phones ringing!

  4. Indy

    And the winning comment goes to

    Begin forwarded message:

    From: “Brett H. Pojunis”
    Date: July 1, 2012 3:36:30 PM PDT
    To: lnc-discuss@hq.lp.org
    Subject: Re: [Lnc-discuss] Wayne Root for LNC
    Reply-To: lnc-discuss@hq.lp.org

    John Jay and Wayne,

    I am going to start referring to you guys as “John Jayne”. Clearly you guys don’t see eye-to-eye so I have a novel idea, take the discussion offline and email each other directly.

    You guys can beat each each other up (verbally) as much as you want privately. The issue is that you both think you make great points and that you need to be heard. Did you guys take into consideration that every email on this list is being forwarded to any member who wants to view them? What does the LP membership think about this? Did you also think that there is a very good reason why we are still (if we can maintain) the third (3rd) largest party? I will point out that we are not a close 3rd, but there are close 4th and 5ths. These types of exchanges will encourage and motivate the other parties to work that extra hour, schedule that extra event, and continue to grow their party.

    I think that John Jayne is actually working together and they are secretly trying to take over the LNC by staging fights.

    Best,

    Brett H. Pojunis
    Libertarian National Committee (LNC) – Region 4 Representative
    Libertarian Party of Nevada – Secretary & Executive Committee
    Young Libertarian National Alliance (YLNA) – Co-founder and Co-Chair

  5. Jill Pyeatt

    Let’s see. I can write a letter to my Regional Reps: Daniel Wiener and Brett Pujonis. And I suppose I can also cc to my delightful Alternate, Scott Lieberman.

    On second thought, I think I’ll send my letter demanding that the LNC stop Root from endorsing and raising money for another party’s candidate to Mr. Neale. He’ll have it by the time he gets up tomorrow morning.

  6. Jill Pyeatt

    FYI, calling a man a woman’s name as a means to insult is absolutely the most childish thing ever. I’m glad Brett is showing his true self this early into his LNC career. I can’t wait to not vote for him again in 2014.

  7. Root's Teeth Are Awesome

    Brett Pojunis implies that Myers and Root are equally bad.

    NOT!

    Root is awful. Myers is great.

    I’m glad they’re posting on the LNC list so that everyone can read it. We need transparency.

    Pojunis is wrong to try and get the Myers/Root discussion off the list.

  8. Jill Pyeatt

    As far as Root’s bio at the end of Dr. Buchman’s article where he says “# 1 vote-getter” needs to read now: “barely re-elected to the LNC: received 30 votes less than Starchild”.

  9. Trent Hill

    “FYI, calling a man a woman’s name as a means to insult is absolutely the most childish thing ever. I’m glad Brett is showing his true self this early into his LNC career. I can’t wait to not vote for him again in 2014.”

    Um, not sure what you mean. He was making a portmanteau of “John Jay” and “Wayne”. I’ve never met a girl named “Jayne”. I have met two boys named “Jayne”.

  10. Jill Pyeatt

    Hmmm, I’ve never seen a man with that name. Jayne is an alternate spelling of Jane. I’ve seen it a lot (in my age group). I didn’t think of it as a compilation of both men’s names, but that’s even creepier.

  11. Jake Porter

    Wayne Root should not be removed from the LNC. The delegates voted him in knowing very well what kind of LNC member he is.

    I was against some members of the LNC trying to remove Keaton and Wrights and I am likewise against attempts to remove Root. Although, I am no longer a national party member so it doesn’t really matter to me.

  12. Oranje Mike

    One delegation at the convention handed Mr. Hinkle a letter asking that Mr. Root be censured and removed from the LNC for endorsing Romney if he failed to resign. Obviously nothing of the sort happened. I don’t think the top-down crowd cares what the rank-and-file (the heart of the party) thinks or wants.

  13. Robert Capozzi

    17 nf, actually, it could be helpful IF it leads to someone who is warring to realize that the warring is in no one’s interest.

  14. Dan Ciammaichella

    Let me put this as shortly and simply as possible: W.A. Root is a cancer in the LP that prevents former GOP libertarians like me from joining or supporting the party.

  15. wolfefan

    As much as I detest the organization behind this event I don’t think it’s right to describe them as the Romney campaign, or even a pro-Romeny campaign. The reality is that if Obama is defeated in November, it will be by Romney. If the group does nothing but run anti-Obama ads that mention no other candidate, most of the votes they influence will go to Romeny naturally. The converse is also true, of course – an anti-Obama campaign would primarily benefit Romney. If the Johnson campaign is able to follow up on those ads (from either side) and peel off some of those voters for themselves that would be a good thing, but that’s on the GJ campaign to do, not the anti-Obama or anti-Romney crowd. I’m not a fan of Wayne and I’ve been critical of him here, but to paint this as an endorsement of Romney or participation in a pro-Romney event strikes me as unfair. I would like to wait and see what he says and what he does at the event. He could well make a pro-Jiohnson pitch, although that becomes increasingly less likely the more JJM pokes at him. I don’t think anyone involved is showing much perspective in thinking about the best interests of the party in the coming election, where there seems to me to be a much stronger opportunity for progress than in many years.

  16. wolfefan

    I said that converse part backwards – an anti-Romney campaign would primarily benefit Obama. Duh!

  17. Victor Lazlo

    @ 21: If you allow the presence of another person in our Party to keep you from joining or supporting our Party, then you are not much of a Libertarian or very serious about fightin for your liberty. It sounds like our Party will just have to get along without you.

  18. Victor Lazlo

    @22: Agree that Mr. Myers has misrepresented Mr. Root’s involvement in the telethon. So much so that it calls into question his other complaints abut Mr. Root’s behavior.

  19. bruuno

    As a non-LP member, but with someone with experience dealing within political party committees, perhaps I can add a little word of advice. From 1996-2004 I was an elected member of a Democratic Committee in NY. For much of that time we were torn apart by two rival factions. During that time I was Treasurer and/or an Executive Committee member (as well as being head of outreach to 3rd Parties). It was extremely stressful and almost destroyed the Committee and local Party. There are no real winners. Having said that perhaps something does need to be done but I STRONGLY recommend that you all wait until the November elections are over. Quite frankly the distraction and acrimonious feelings it will cause will only serve negatively for all LP candidates all the way down the ticket.
    Having been a follower of this website I have grown to respect many of you LP folks and I really don’t want to see you head down that path of internal squabbling during the most important time for a Party Committee.
    I realize that many of you may feel that the question must be addressed ASAP for the sake of the Committee but just trust me, it almost always can wait.
    And to give you an idea of what we were dealing with at the time it was one of our major candidates pretty much openly supporting (more than Mr. Root, at the moment at least) the GOP candidates. It was despicable and obnoxious but looking back on it I really wish we had not become as embroiled in the situation until the election was over as it cost all of us.

  20. JamesT

    First Barr’s Gingrich endorsement now this. Everyone who attended the 08 LP convention should be ashamed of themselves.

    Also this is all just so incredibly childish.

  21. paulie

    Victor,

    I duly note that Wayne says he is not participating to endorse Romney, and that he would be willing to share his thoughts at an “Elect Obama Telethon” if he was invited.

    As to the purpose of the Defeat Obama Telethon itself, however, there is little doubt.

    http://www.americanconservativedaily.com/2012/06/%E2%98%85-help-swing-88-electoral-votes-heres-how/

    As Lloyd Marcus
    Chairman, The Campaign to Defeat Barack Obama said, “Many of our TV ads in Wisconsin took aim at Barack Obama, and now there is evidence to show that our efforts were successful. A new Rasmussen Reports poll shows that Mitt Romney is now polling AHEAD of Barack Obama for the first time!

    Our strategy is working, and now we need to expand our efforts to include Michigan and Ohio as well as the next steps.”

    Note that Mr. Marcus says their strategy is working because Romney pulled ahead of Obama in Wisconsin polls, and they hope to use the money they raise in Vegas to get Romney ahead of Obama in Michigan and Ohio polls as well.

    I trust Wayne will spend all of his time talking about how much he dislikes Obama, and none of it endorsing Romney. I also don’t think that the people he will be talking to will respond positively if he explicitly endorses Johnson during the telethon, and thus, while I would love to hear that, I would not expect it.

    My best guess is that the money raised is going to be spent on negative anti-Obama ads, not on anything that explicitly promotes Romney, but it has been explicitly stated by the campaign chair that their goal is to get Romney ahead of Obama in key states.

  22. paulie

    Everyone who attended the 08 LP convention should be ashamed of themselves.

    I attended the ’08 convention and voted for Kubby or Ruwart on every ballot for P and VP, as did almost half of the other people there on the final ballots for each office.

    Why should I be more ashamed that I went than those who did not go and could have swung the vote had they gone?

    Not that there is necessarily shame in not going – it is expensive and time consuming, and I missed the 2002 and 2006 conventions as well as all those before the first one I went to (2000).

  23. paulie

    bruuno,

    Thank you for sharing the benefit of your experience.

    Dan Ciammaichella,

    While I would not put in the harsh way Victor Lazlo did, I would say that the presence of one other member should not preclude you from joining and working to move the LP in the direction you want to see it go, as well as using it as a tool to help influence public policy to whatever extent we can.

  24. ATBAFT

    Is it strategically important for a third party to have one or more individuals involved who have some favorable standing/connections to people in the major parties? Will there come a time when such connections are important and valuable to advance the interests of the LP?
    Say, when some influence is needed to overturn a harsh ballot access law, or work with one of the parties to help defeat some incumbent anti-liberty scumbag?

  25. wolfefan

    Hi paulei @28 –

    First, congratulations on your election! I appreciate the moderating influence that you bring to many of the discussions here and the ability that you have to speak to people from a variety of viewpoints in a way that respects where they are coming from and acknowledges their points, even when you disagree.

    With respect, I suspect that the Lloyd Marcus quote would have been almost exactly the same if polls showed Virgil Goode or Gary Johnson pulling ahead of Obama. The fact that it’s Romney doesn’t mean it’s an explicitly pro-Romney group. The strategy seems to be to pull down Obama, not to promote any particular candidate. That Romney is the primary beneficiary doesn’t make that their specific goal.

  26. George Phillies

    Mr Root was a s a practical matter elected to the LNC by the deeds of one person: Gary Johnson, the man who nominated him and was booed while doing so.

  27. Nick Kruse

    @33, One man cannot put someone on the LNC. Everyone who voted for Root is just as guilty.

  28. JT

    If Root clearly endorses Johnson over Romney (no weasel language to the effect that Johnson is a good guy & would be a good President, though Romney is the only one who can defeat Obama), then I see no problem with Root speaking there per se. I do, however, have a very difficult time believing that’s what he’s going to say, as he claims. Can’t know for sure until afterward.

    Moreover, does he really think that he’s going to recruit LP supporters at a “Defeat Obama” event? The people motivated to attend are bound to be diehard Republicans & not good prospects for the LP. They may even be hostile, thinking (wrongly) that Johnson will draw all his votes from people who otherwise would’ve voted for Romney. I don’t see the upside to this move.

  29. paulie

    wolfefan,

    Thank you and I agree – if Johnson or Goode were ahead of Romney, Lloyd Marcus would be happy. I’ll also grant that most people involved with his campaign would have preferred someone other than Mitt Romney for the Republican nomination, and that some of them would vote for alternative parties if they were not afraid of “splitting the vote” and electing Obama.

    However, my experience with folks with this mindset is that the closer it gets to election time the more frantically they will be telling us, long after we get sick of hearing it over and over, that “a vote for Johnson is a vote for Obama.” They will likewise be telling our Constitution Party friends that “a vote for Goode is a vote for Obama” and they will be telling anyone not happy with any of the choices that “not voting is the same as voting for Obama.”

    They will be pressuring Gov. Johnson and Congressman Goode to “drop out and endorse Romney to save this country,” just as they were doing to Joe Kennedy when he ran against another Romneyesque Massachusetts Republican, Scott Brown.

    I don’t think this type of mindset is what we should be encouraging.

    However, I also don’t think that the “vote people off the (LNC) island” games should be perpetrated this term, either. I have said this time and time again on IPR and elsewhere and told John the same thing in email.

  30. paulie

    Re-reading the IPR article we are commenting on I think Joe may have misunderstood something Wayne said.

    In the following email to all members of the LNC, reproduced in its entirety below, Mr. Root threatens, if any (emphasis in the original) member of the LNC “would like to remove” him from the LNC, to cancel the reception and fundraiser at his home for the Gary Johnson/Jim Gray campaign that is currently scheduled for Friday, July 13th (not the 15th as incorrectly stated in his email):

    From: WAYNE ROOT
    Date: July 1, 2012 12:11:31 PM PDT

    One parting thought for Sunday…

    The LNC should think long & hard about this one…

    Would you like to remove me before or after my fundraiser at my home for your Presidential candidate?

    It’s on Friday July 15th. (sic)

    My wife has put in many hours planning Gary’s fundraiser…held during FreedomFest.

    Our beautiful home will be Gary’s for the night.

    I believe 80 people are confirmed.

    So that means by 15th (sic), I’d expect over 100 people- all writing checks for our LP Presidential ticket.

    If ANY of you would like to remove me from LNC…as John suggests…

    For the sin of accepting 1000 media appearances per year…some of which John doesn’t like…

    Lets do it quickly…perhaps Monday (tomorrow)?

    So Gary Johnson can find another Vegas venue.

    All the Best,

    Wayne

    p] As I understand it what Wayne is saying is that if anyone thinks there should be a removal vote they should go ahead and schedule it to get it over with quickly.

    It does appear that he is unwilling to host the fundraising dinner if he is removed from the LNC, which is somewhat understandable as that would be a big slap in the face (and may also not be good for the fundraising event itself if that was to happen), so he wants to give it time to find an alternative venue if he is to be removed.

  31. Richard Winger

    Maybe the 2012 election is not going to be all that suspenseful anyway, and people can stop worrying about “wasting their votes.” Electoral-vote.com shows that according to current polls in each states, if the election were held now, Obama would win 326 electoral votes and Romney would win 212. Most surprisingly, the margin in each state between the two of them is at least 5 points, in all but seven states. It’s not currently close in 43 states.

  32. Austin Battenberg

    Wayne said in one of those emails that he is in a lot more left wing media. I think he is on FOX more, but he mentioned being on the Daily Show. I did a search for him, and this was the only thing I came up with.

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-8-2012/the-socialist-network

    Unlike many here, I don’t hate Wayne and don’t think he should be kicked off. I don’t like what he is doing with the defeat-obama telethon, but that isn’t reason enough to be kicked off if his comments don’t include endorsing Romney. Regardless, if this is what people see when the media is reporting on the LP, well, I don’t think I even need to say anything.

  33. LibertarianGirl

    To Jill I dont think he meant to call them a womens name , just that it rhymed and was a convienent dbl up on the names.I thought it was hilarious and since Ive thought his to be in waynes pocket before its awesome to see him call Wayne out ( referring to Brett P )…great job Brett!:)

  34. George Phillies

    @34 You really do not understand politics, do you? Most delegates did not know most of the 19 At-Large candidates, and an adequate number took Johnson’s word that Root should be one of the At-Large spots.

  35. Nick Kruse

    @43-If the delegates did not want to take the time to learn about the 19 at-large candidates, then they should have abstained from that vote or not go to the convention at all. Every delegate who choose to vote for Root is just as guilty as Johnson is.

  36. JT

    Winger: “Maybe the 2012 election is not going to be all that suspenseful anyway, and people can stop worrying about “wasting their votes.””

    Richard, what you say is true, but most voters don’t pay any attention that. They don’t follow projections of Electoral College votes in different states. They know that it’s Obama vs. Romney & that’s all. Like it or not, that’s how informed most people are about political races.

  37. Joe Buchman Post author

    @ 38 Paulie,

    “Re-reading the IPR article we are commenting on I think Joe may have misunderstood something Wayne said.”

    I reread it myself a few times and I you are absolutely correct — I may have misunderstood (and/or you may have misunderstood).

    IMO it’s not our role when reporting here to read into the meaning of the words of others nor to interpret them.

    Given the acrimony on both sides it seems it’s difficult for many of us to know what those and at least some other words emailed, or said in various of Mr. Root’s many media interviews, really mean.

    So there’s a significant group at any given time that, by definition, has either misread or intentionally distorted them. That much is self-evident in posts here on IPR and I’m relatively sure both of those are happening, at least much of the time.

    However, there is nothing I see in Mr. Root’s emails about voting; there was much about the LNC “thinking long and hard.”

    Nothing about a call for a group decision; but repeated claims that one individual had the power to drive other good individuals away.

    Nothing about a 2/3rds majority (required in the bylaws); but the statement “if *any* of you (emphasis in the original).

    In the past, Mr. Root has parsed his language and that of others to the point of, IMP, clear distortion, asking we “know what’s in his heart” despite having said “it’s got to be Romney.”

    On Saturday Mr. Root promoted Gary Johnson as scheduled to appear on a telethon in Vegas with him.

    He said this repeatedly and publicly without verification from the campaign or Gary himself.

    So the fact that you and I and others have to re-read things to try to figure out what he might really mean or do is also relevant — it’s confusing as hell and he often changes his mind, as in, for example the various declarations in his June 27th email.

    Another current example of his distortion (at best) and deception (at worst) is that his Facebook Page still promotes the following:

    “Wayne Allyn Root joins the Defeat Barack Obama Telethon- along with Herman Cain, Michelle Bachmann and Gary Johnson”

    http://www.facebook.com/wayne.a.root

    At least 2 Facebook users have shared this with others, and who knows the domino effect of that? Wayne claims his influence on others is vast. Will he act to correct this misstatement? Or wait to see how the LNC votes today first?

    My intent was to be objective both in the article as well as here in this comment.

    Reread them both again and let me know how I did.

    🙂

    For those who may have missed the “It’s got to be Romney” and subsequent tortured parsing and defense of that by Mr. Root, and others, see:

    http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/04/wayne-allyn-root-tells-radio-audience-to-vote-for-romney/

    Joe

  38. Mark Hilgenberg

    @ ATBAFT 31

    I do agree that we need to have those who outreach to the major parties. The problem with Roots style is it helps to turn off everyone else who is not like the narrowly defined crowd he reaches.

    As opposed to reinforcing false bigotries, biases and beliefs he should be sharing how liberty is the solution for those who are fiscally conservative yet feel left out by the extreme right he panders to.

    Liberty is for everyone, not just for the affluent, white, older, angry, stereotyping crowd he targets. By doing so he alienates the massive youth who are less inclined to worry about religion, race and isms.

  39. Joe Buchman Post author

    George @ 33.

    Yes he did!

    Gary acknowledged both Mr. Root and Mr. Redpath for their significant personal contact and persuasion prior to his December 2011 announcement in Santa Fe to encourage his run as our Libertarian nominee.

    I am grateful for the role Gary says they each played in that.

    I know what path others may choose to take, but as for me:

    Give me Gary or give me death!

    That’s all the other two parties offer, literally — domestic drones, wars, financial disaster, jail for the non-violent drug users and protesters among us.

    For the next 126 days and 13 hours, George and all . . . could we work for LIFE here?

    If you know of a better way to do that than by working to maximize the votes for Gary Johnson/Judge Gray, please share that here!

    http://pluslikes.net/countdown-until-2012-us-presidential-election-apps/

  40. Paulie

    Joe

    Doing pretty good for the most part but I think this part

    “If ANY of you would like to remove me from LNC…as John suggests…

    For the sin of accepting 1000 media appearances per year…some of which John doesn’t like…

    Lets do it quickly…perhaps Monday (tomorrow)?

    So Gary Johnson can find another Vegas venue.”

    Does not mean that if ANY members WANT to remove him he would cancel the fundraiser (otherwise I would think he would already do that, since John wants to remove him).

    The way I am reading that is that if ANY other LNC members want to have a vote on removing him (I presume it needs to be seconded), he wants that vote to be held as soon as possible, and would only cancel the fundraiser if the vote succeeds in removal.

    At least that is what I think and hope he means.

    BTW my sense is that a removal vote right now would fail to get even a simple majority, much less 2/3.

  41. Nick Kruse

    It is foolish of Root to threaten to cancel a Gary Johnson fundraiser. Johnson is not Root’s enemy; John is. GJ was the one who helped get Root on the LNC.

  42. Marc Montoni

    I agree with Brett.

    I do not agree that he was calling two men by a woman’s name. Heck, there’s a popular example of a man named Jayne in cinema who is often cited as a favorite libertarians.

    Wayne posts his stuff online & via email even though he knows much of what he has said and done has thoroughly alienated many in the LP. He doesn’t care — he enjoys “poking people in the eye”.

    I doubt that JJM would say boo to Root if Root didn’t insist on posting his “look at how great I am” screeds.

  43. JT

    Hilgenberg: “Liberty is for everyone, not just for the affluent, white, older, angry, stereotyping crowd he targets. By doing so he alienates the massive youth who are less inclined to worry about religion, race and isms.”

    I think that Root doesn’t care much about attracting a lot of younger people, at least in part because most people in their late teens & 20s tend not to have much $ to donate to political efforts. I agree that raising $ is important for a political party, so I wouldn’t ignore outreach to older, affluent individuals as such. But I think the youth are generally good prospects as well. They’re typically more idealistic in their political views, open-minded toward supporting alternatives to the establishment, & they can contribute in other ways that are valuable.

  44. Paulie

    Get ’em while they are young and they become your future donors, candidates and leaders.

    In some cases even current.

    Much harder to bring older people on board. They tend to be set in their ways. Sometimes you can teach an old dog new tricks, but it’s a lot harder than if you do it early on.

  45. Jill Pyeatt

    It appears on the LNCDiscuss list that Geoff Neale is calling for an Executive Committee meeting tonight, I assume by phone. Is it possible he’ll discuss this situation? It says by request of William Redpath.

  46. RedPhillips

    When I first read this I couldn’t figure out what the working for the candidate of another party allegation was referring to. Then I figured out it was the “Defeat Obama Telethon.”

    I think there are a lot of people in the LP who are sensitive to the suggestion that they are friendlier to Republicans than Democrats. That seems to me to be what is going on here. It didn’t even occur to me that a “Defeat Obama Telethon” was somehow an endorsement of Romney until I figured out that is what the issue was. Any challenger (Romney, Johnson, Goode, whoever) is by definition hoping for the defeat of the incumbent. I wouldn’t have any heartburn with a CP person participating in a Defeat Obama Telethon as long as the anti-Obama adds weren’t going to violate CP principles. (They might if they criticized Obama for being weak on defense or something like that.) In fact, I would welcome the pub. I think the Root haters need to relax. They are letting their Root hating cloud their judgement.

  47. Jill Pyeatt

    Red @ 56: This is only the latest in a long series of support for the GOP and their likely candidate. He also emailed the whole ExCom that he and Gary Johnson were going to headline the event, when it appears Johnson isn’t involved this year at all. Was this deliberate lying on Root’s part? I think so. I’m tired of his embarrassing constant attacks on Obama, his seemingly constant identifying with Republicans, and his hateful rhetoric to other Libertarians, such as his manner of talking to John Jay Myers in the LNC Discuss list. There’s a lot going on here.

  48. Mark Hilgenberg

    @ Red 56

    As Paulie said.

    As to the purpose of the Defeat Obama Telethon itself, however, there is little doubt.

    http://www.americanconservativedaily.com/2012/06/%E2%98%85-help-swing-88-electoral-votes-heres-how/

    As Lloyd Marcus
    Chairman, The Campaign to Defeat Barack Obama said, “Many of our TV ads in Wisconsin took aim at Barack Obama, and now there is evidence to show that our efforts were successful. A new Rasmussen Reports poll shows that Mitt Romney is now polling AHEAD of Barack Obama for the first time!

    Our strategy is working, and now we need to expand our efforts to include Michigan and Ohio as well as the next steps.”

    Note that Mr. Marcus says their strategy is working because Romney pulled ahead of Obama in Wisconsin polls, and they hope to use the money they raise in Vegas to get Romney ahead of Obama in Michigan and Ohio polls as well.

  49. RedPhillips

    “Have you read through the comments in this and the prior thread about this?”

    No, but my sense from a lot of the past Root bashing is that emotions with regard to Root are out of proportion to the offense. And I think this is largely because certain sensitive types think Root associates them, Heaven forbid, with those icky Red Americans.

  50. Losty

    Open Question..

    Other than 5% Matching funds, and a 10+ showing in New Mexico 9Would look terrible if he doesn’t clear 10 in NM)..

    As a candidate he is running to win the election, BUT..

    How do I even phrase this..

    Assuming he hasn’t packed up the furniture yet, Do we think Mr. Root will help him get 5% nationally, or will prevent him from that?

  51. RedPhillips

    Jill, I think his prior controversial statement about Romney was problematic. He should have at least included a disclaimer that he is a Libertarian and planned to vote for Johnson. Something he has done more clearly subsequently. But how are constant attacks on Obama embarrassing? Does Obama not deserve to be attacked? This strikes me as an emotional objection. Lest Libertarians be associated with all those Obama hating rightists.

  52. JT

    Red: “Any challenger (Romney, Johnson, Goode, whoever) is by definition hoping for the defeat of the incumbent. I wouldn’t have any heartburn with a CP person participating in a Defeat Obama Telethon as long as the anti-Obama adds weren’t going to violate CP principles.”

    Red, you seem like an intelligent person to me & I usually agree with your posts. But use your head, man. This isn’t merely an anti-Obama event; it’s a *pro-Romney* event. Do you doubt that “Defeat Obama” is organized by Mitt Romney backers for the purpose of raising $ for his campaign? Do you think that the people attending will be people who strongly want to defeat Obama but are open-minded to non-Republican candidates who aren’t going to achieve that goal?

    To me, there’s no benefit to a Libertarian speaking at such a function unless that person clearly states that Gary Johnson is the one candidate whom people should vote for. That’s the only way that would be worth doing & I’m not going to bet on that happening.

    Many Libertarians have become fed up with Root because he has seemingly made it his mission to straddle the fence as a “libertarian-conservative.” Not only do we libertarians dislike being perceived as part of a right-wing movement, but such behavior is grossly inappropriate for a Libertarian elected to party office.

    Addendum: I’d equally dislike being perceived as part of a left-wing movement.

  53. JT

    Red: “And I think this is largely because certain sensitive types think Root associates them, Heaven forbid, with those icky Red Americans.”

    Yeah, can you believe those overly sensitive Libertarians who don’t want to be perceived as something they’re not?

    And we don’t “think” Root does that. He does it constantly. And he’s proud of it.

  54. RedPhillips

    Mark, any challenger by definition wants the incumbent to lose, and as much as we may hate it, the winner is either going to be Obama or Romney. It would strike me as counterproductive for the Green Party candidate to attend a Defeat Obama Telethon because she would consider Obama preferable to the other option. It would strike me as rational for the CP candidate to attend because he clearly would view Romney as preferable to Obama. The LP nominee, while I suspect most rank-and-file Libertarians would prefer Romney to Obama, seems to me to be in the enviable position of arguably being able to attend a Defeat Obama Telethon this year and a Defeat Romney Telethon in 2016.

  55. Jill Pyeatt

    Red, we’re talking about a pattern that’s so constant and so public that it is destroying our brand. I don’t consider myself being a “sensitive type.” I’m someone who is sick of having my political party being depicted as bigoted, conservative and mostly false to what is it really is. What if Don Grundmann suddenly showed up all over TV and the radio and in print, declared himself Dr. Constitutionalist, espousing his form of Constitutional Party and making it appear that everyone in the CP believes as he does?

  56. RedPhillips

    “Do you doubt that “Defeat Obama” is organized by Mitt Romney backers for the purpose of raising $ for his campaign?”

    JT, my understanding is that the money will go toward non-partisan anti-Obama ads in accordance with current campaign finance laws. Any overt coordination with the Romney campaign would be illegal, although I don’t doubt that some non-overt coordination might go on.

    “Not only do we libertarians dislike being perceived as part of a right-wing movement…”

    That’s my point. Reaction to Root is based on how certain people don’t want to be “perceived.” I know plenty of libertarians who understand their place in the American system for better or worse. Libertarians may not be the right-wing technically speaking, but in America they are part of the coalition that makes up the “party” of anti. They are not part of the
    establishment “party.” They are part of the anti-establishment “party.” The Country Party so to speak. And in that coalition “party” right along with you are Tea Partiers, conservatives, etc. You best get used to that. Otherwise you will be in a constant state of angst. Read Codevilla’s The Ruling Class. You’re not part of the ruling class whether you like it or not.

  57. Jill Pyeatt

    No, Red, I believe that it’s racist that Root exhibits broad, sweeping hatred for all things Islamic. I actually don’t see his hatred of Obama as racist, BTW. I believe he’s jealous of Obama. I also considered Wayne’s article from a couple weeks ago, which we discussed here about Romney selecting Rubio as his vice-president, to be racist. He said, essentially, that all Romney has to do to win the election is to bring aboard a token Hispanic. That struck me as being racist.

  58. JT

    Red: “JT, my understanding is that the money will go toward non-partisan anti-Obama ads in accordance with current campaign finance laws.”

    So there will be no promotion of Romney whatsoever there? If true, that’s good to know.

    Red: “I know plenty of libertarians who understand their place in the American system for better or worse.”

    Okay? That makes 2 of us.

    Red: “Libertarians may not be the right-wing technically speaking, but in America they are part of the coalition that makes up the “party” of anti. They are not part of the
    establishment “party.” They are part of the anti-establishment “party.” The Country Party so to speak.”

    The party of “anti”? That’s a bizarre conception. Being “anti-establishment” isn’t the proper characterization. Being pro-individual liberty is.

    And I have no idea what you mean by the “Country Party.” As opposed to what? The City Party? The World Party?

    Red: “And in that coalition “party” right along with you are Tea Partiers, conservatives, etc.”

    How are conservatives in the party of “anti” anymore than liberals who are anti-foreign war, anti-drug war, anti-corporate welfare, anti-gay discrimination, anti-speech restriction, anti-warrantless search & seizure, anti-indefinite detention, anti-border blockade, etc.?

    Red: “You’re not part of the ruling class whether you like it or not.”

    Well that’s pretty obvious.

  59. Mark Hilgenberg

    @ Red 66

    Yet another major flaw in thinking about liberty, how can actually pick who would be better? They give nothing but rhetoric, that is their only difference.

    Romney will be much worse on social issues, if that is even possible.

    Picking a side with someone who wants to “conserve” the status-quo makes no sense to me at all.

  60. RedPhillips

    “As opposed to what? The City Party? The World Party?”

    As opposed to the Court Party. It’s all there in Codevilla, but the idea of a Court Party and a Country Party goes way back in Anglo polity to England in the 16oo’s.

    You could argue (and I would) that American politics have historically been better characterized by this distinction than left and right.

  61. Richard Winger

    #62, it’s just vocabulary, but “matching” should not be in your comment. The general election funding triggered by the presidential candidate getting 5% is not “matching” money. “Matching” should only be used to refer to primary season public funding.

  62. Jill Pyeatt

    WS @ 75: Perhaps “racist” isn’t the right word, but my answer stands as to why I consider Wayne a bigot.

  63. Mark Hilgenberg

    Jill,

    I use bigot over racist.

    Bigot: : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

    Racist: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

  64. Jill Pyeatt

    William and Mark: you’re correct. “Bigot” is the appropriate term for wha t I’m trying to say, and the two words (“bigot” and “racist”) are not interchangeable. Hopefully, I was able to make my point, however, of why I consider Root a bigot.

  65. Tom Blanton

    A lot of LP members seem to be missing the big picture and are failing to see how valuable Root is to the LP.

    Face it, America is a nation of assholes. Americans love assholes. Look at who they vote for. Obama and Romney are world-class assholes.

    There are a fair number of assholes in the LP, too. But Wayne Root is easily the biggest asshole in the LP. He has the potential to bring in thousands of assholes – just ask him.

    I guesstimate that 99.5% of all successful politicians are flaming assholes and work hard at being loud, obnoxious, self-absorbed, and boastful. This is what politicians do.

    The most popular and best known politicians are sociopaths. They are pathological liars and skilled manipulators. These bold leaders are super-assholes.

    If the LP is all about “doing real politics” and winning elections, then the LP needs assholes, really big pompous assholes. Wayne Root fits the bill.

    What Wayne needs is support from plain ordinary assholes who can form Wayne Root fan clubs, wear Root t-shirts and caps, and hold Root rallies.

  66. JT

    Red: “As opposed to the Court Party. It’s all there in Codevilla, but the idea of a Court Party and a Country Party goes way back in Anglo polity to England in the 16oo’s. You could argue (and I would) that American politics have historically been better characterized by this distinction than left and right.”

    Okay, I understand what you mean now.

    You didn’t answer my question about the liberals being “anti” on a lot as well, if you want to frame it using that term. Can you explain that?

  67. Mark Hilgenberg

    @Red 85

    We are?

    So cons are anti laws which keep LGBT people from being married and all other rights enjoyed by non-LGBT citizens?

    They are against wars of aggression, the drug war, corporate welfare and privilege?

  68. Jill Pyeatt

    RP @ 85: “conservatives and libertarians are equally anti the current zeitgeist, the rulling orthodoxy.”

    I don’t agree with you at all. I see no situation where your above statement would be true.

  69. paulie

    Red,

    I see the anti-establishment party, to the degree there is one, represented equally by the Tea Partiers and Occupiers, and most especially where the two agree.

    Wayne is setting up right vs left and putting us on the side of the right. That’s not where we are. We are for peace, civil liberties and economic opportunity for all (which we believe a truly free market can best achieve).

    I’m an anti-establishment guy, an opponent of the court party, but my anti-establishment party includes the anti-corporate, anti-establishment left as much as the right. Your lens may paint them as pawns of the establishment, and their might paint you as one.

    Mine paints both left and right intersecting equally with the establishment and anti-establishment sides, much like the libertarian Diamond chart does, although it’s not exactly the same as the libertarian up/down or authoritarian/libertarian axis…it’s very close. I think you know the thing I’m talking about, as the LPers do, but if you don’t I can point you to it.

  70. From Der Sidelines

    The obvious answer is to remove for cause *after* the fundraiser, to give time to build the case properly and add to it with the telethon.

    As for Wayne, he needs to go, and this is for him:

  71. Joe Buchman

    Paulie @ 50

    “I think this part . . . “If ANY of you would like to remove me from LNC . . . (then) Lets do it quickly . . . So Gary Johnson can find another Vegas venue.”

    Does not mean that if ANY members WANT to remove him”

    Your reasoning is most likely correct. And trying to be objective in the initial post, I’m just reporting his words and what they say literally.

    Anything else is more assuming than I feel (felt) comfortable doing.

    For example when I heard from one of my kids that one of their friends had an ex-boyfriend with a gun, I called the cops (even though my kids thought it was on overreaction).

    Wayne’s threatening to cancel a fundraiser likewise seems excessive — unless he actually believes there would be enough votes to have him removed, AND by email before that fundraiser could even occur?

    Why else make that threat?

    Just doesn’t make any rational sense to me no matter how it’s parsed.

    My impression is that this is the kind of thing bullies do to get their way when they’ve run out of logical arguments.

    But rather than post my impressions or conclusions or what I think would be rational, I just reported the words and acted as if they meant what they said, as best I could.

    Joe

  72. Thomas L. Knapp

    Joe @ 91,

    You write:

    —–
    Wayne’s threatening to cancel a fundraiser likewise seems excessive — unless he actually believes there would be enough votes to have him removed, AND by email before that fundraiser could even occur?

    Why else make that threat?
    —–

    I’m seeing it the opposite way.

    That is, Wayne strikes me as the kind of guy who only makes threats he doesn’t believe he’ll have to follow through on.

    In two words, he bluffs.

    If he really thought the votes were there to remove him, he’d be working the phones to try to change that equation and positioning himself as “the good guy” being persecuted, not as the asshole who’s threatening to renege on a commitment.

  73. Joe Buchman

    Thomas @ 92,

    Exactly. I’m sure he was asking for a vote of confidence, if not in so many words. Okay, I think, for me to express that opinion in the comments. Not okay, I think, to express it as part of the article.

    I really did my best to simply “Just The Facts” Dragnet this one.

  74. Trent Hill

    Zapper @47,

    Thank God, another Browncoat. That was my immediate thought too.

  75. George Phillies

    In a volunteer organization, it is perfectly possible for one group of members to take a position that will cause a second group of members to withdraw their services and donations. The second group may even warn the first group about what is likely to be happening, though this works less well in eras when bloviation is the norm.

  76. Stewart Flood

    Having spent six years on the LNC dealing with Mr Root’s ego, including two years with him as a member, I would disagree with some of the theories given above.

    He obviously feels that his plan to get the nomination in 2016 and 2020 is in peril. He does not understand why, and does not understand that his own actions and rhetoric have been the cause of much of the resentment against him.

    I was unable to get even a second to my motion when I attempted to have him removed from the ticket in September of 2008 after his statements to Reason Magazine. He ignored the attempt.

    I was unable to get enough support in the spring of this year to bring forward a case for removal for cause. He reacted a little, but once he realized that it would be at the last meeting, and therefore primarily symbolic, he ignored it and continued his campaign in the media aimed at electing Romney.

    Since he does not have a majority of the board in lock step support of him, he is reacting with threats of all the great things he’s planning to do, and how we would be hurt by his loss.

    Where were the million gamblers that he claimed would give millions in 2008? What happened to the million dollars that he said he old raise for a building, first in the spring of last year, and then again in December.

    What happened to the hundreds of thousands of dollars that I have heard him claim several times would be raised for candidates through the LNCC?

    His statement of “your candidate” is the key. He has already “left” the party, and is actually looking for the LNC to throw him out so that he can go back to the Republicans and be accepted again and find some position with Romney if he wins.

    He has spent four years promoting himself, with promotion of the party’s message secondary and used only when enough LNC members complained about what he was doing.

    One hundred people at a fundraiser? And exactly what does he realistically expect to raise? He did this before, raising less money in 2008 than we did in our fundraiser here in Charleston!

    The presidential campaign obviously has to stay out of this internal issue.

    I do not believe that the votes exist on the LNC to remove him. When you count the few that I believe “tolerate” him and would hesitate to vote to remove a member with his few hard core supporters, the remaining members that might vote for removal if shown cause do not make up the required two thirds.

    So he bluffs. But since he really wants to leave, he blusters about “any member” and threatens to cancel his event, hoping someone will react. Classic tactics.

    The next step will be the complaint after the event about the threats against him being the reason it raised so little money. If it does raise a lot of money, he will claim that it would have raised more if he had not been threatened. He is covered either way.

    I would vote to remove. He was guilty before, and his actions continue to show that he is just using the party and his position for personal gain.

  77. Dan Ciammaichella

    paulie and Lazlo

    Yes, if W.A. Root is the kind of wack job that represents what your party stands for…which is probably the case considering that you have nominated him for office in the past…yes, the LP party is obviously not for me or anyone else who is concerned more about our country than partisan party politics. Libertarians don’t need a party to define them.

    NONE OF THE ABOVE – 2012.

  78. zapper

    @94 Firefly is my all time favorite television program. It was cancelled long before I ever heard of it, but I’ve watched the DVDs and Serenity as well repeatedly.

    It’s a shame it was cancelled so early … a great message as well as a great program. And although I usually discount suggestions of conspiracy … Perhaps the government had it killed to stop the spread of dangerous ideas.

    A similar fate befell another great, but low-budget, anti-government sci-fi program long ago called “Otherworld.”

  79. Thomas L. Knapp

    Joe @ 93, Stewart @ 97,

    Please allow me to revise and extend my remarks. I wrote:

    —–
    If he really thought the votes were there to remove him, he’d be working the phones to try to change that equation and positioning himself as “the good guy” being persecuted, not as the asshole who’s threatening to renege on a commitment.
    —–

    Let me add to that “or he’d go ahead and resign so that he could turn it into ‘they didn’t fire me — I quit!'”

    In my opinion, Wayne views pretty much everything in terms of personal PR positioning.

    I don’t think that should be an especially controversial claim. Wayne is a salesman, and the product he sells (even when it’s wrapped in something else, be it football picks or politics) is Wayne.

    There’s nothing wrong with that per se, by the way. But it does imply certain courses of action.

    One of those is that IF Wayne leaves the LNC and/or the LP, he will do his best to make that change in a way that lets him spin the narrative as “I left the LP because they weren’t willing to recognize, and make the most of, what a great guy I am and what great things I was doing for them” rather than as “they decided I was a douchebag and kicked me out.”

  80. Paulie

    Yes, if W.A. Root is the kind of wack job that represents what your party stands for…which is probably the case considering that you have nominated him for office in the past…

    The LP has a lot of different kinds of people in it. Wayne represents one kind. I’m a whole lot different from him on many issues.

  81. Paulie

    If you choose not to participate that’s your choice but then the party becomes less like you and more like the people you don’t like.

  82. JT

    Red: “JT, conservatives and libertarians are equally anti the current zeitgeist, the rulling orthodoxy.”

    All you did is just restate what you previously said. You didn’t respond to my point.

    I personally dislike social conservatives as much as I do economic liberals. Both are collectivists who seek to use the force of law to try to achieve their own visions of the good society. Most libertarians I know feel the same way. You had best get used to that.

    Paulie: “Wayne is setting up right vs left and putting us on the side of the right. That’s not where we are. We are for peace, civil liberties and economic opportunity for all (which we believe a truly free market can best achieve).”

    Agreed (although I’d challenge the idea that there’s no economic opportunity for all right now, given the many people who have risen out of poverty to become relatively well-off. However, economic opportunity & mobility would be much greater in a free-market society).

    Flood: “He obviously feels that his plan to get the nomination in 2016 and 2020 is in peril. He does not understand why, and does not understand that his own actions and rhetoric have been the cause of much of the resentment against him.”

    I don’t think the idea that Root “doesn’t understand” that his own actions & rhetoric have caused much of the resentment against him is realistic. He has been exposed to Libertarian views on social & foreign matters for years now, & many Libertarians have expressed repeatedly that they don’t approve of his libertarian-conservative ideology & outreach exclusively to the right. Is he just an idiot who can’t understand those things? I think he’s a pretty intelligent person.

  83. Austin Battenberg

    Most people who frequent this board and consider themselves libertarians do not like to be affiliated with Wayne Allyn Root.

    On the other hand, I’m actually pretty proud that we have someone like Gary Johnson being the standard-bearer of the Libertarian Party. Sure, he isn’t perfect in every issue, but he doesn’t have to cover up or lie about his good record, and he has appeal across the political spectrum.

    Maybe if Wayne could be a little more humble, he would be tolerated more.

  84. Joe Buchman

    Stewart @ 97,

    “He obviously feels that his plan to get the nomination in 2016 and 2020”

    It will be difficult for him as the 2016 Libertarian candidate to run against an incumbent Romney, after repeatedly endorsing and raising money for him this year.

    Perhaps he will say “Vote for Gary Johnson” and then, “Come to my fundraiser, at my house, for MY candidate a week from this Friday the 13th” repeatedly on that telethon tomorrow.

    While it looks like he has removed (but not corrected) the false FB statement that Gary Johnson would be on the defeat Romney telethon tomorrow, today’s headline includes this from self-described “Reagan Libertarian” Root:

    “ROOT: Shocker of the century- Anderson Cooper is gay! Wow! What a surprise. While they are at it, CNN should disclose that no one watches his show. That’s no big surprise either. LOL:”

    I wonder how Wayne’s gay friends would feel about that.

    Did Reagan have any gay friends?

    Or this:

    “ROOT: I lhave two daughters. I love the 10 Commandments for Fathers:
    http://townhall.com/columnists/douggiles/2012/07/01/dads_if_you_dont_want_your_daughter_to_date_charlie_sheen_lil_wayne_beavis_or_butthead_read_this

    Which includes such wonderful Libertarian Commandments as (oops, I mean “Reagan Libertarian Commandments” as):

    “Commandment III. Thou shall not touch my daughter. If you do, I’ll smash your hands and your mommy will have to help you gel your Justin Bieber haircut.”

    and

    “Commandment VI. Thou shall know that our family is old school. Do not even think about approaching me with liberal, hippie, agnostic, atheistic, anti-American or tree-humping bull crap.”

    http://www.facebook.com/WayneAllynRoot

    Who wouldn’t want THIS guy as President of the United States of America?!?

    (Other than Anderson Cooper, and any young Libertarian wanting to date his daughter . . . especially if it’s another female.)

  85. Stewart Flood

    Tom @100,

    Yes, with that modification we are in nearly complete agreement. He will spin it as “I left them, they didn’t appreciate me…”

    Joe @105,

    Wayne plays the odds. The odds right now are against him, but he doesn’t see it yet.

    The GOP will not take him back. They certainly won’t support him running for anything at the federal level (aka POTUS). He might get support from the tea party, but they’re not necessarily going to be a force a few years from now.

    He’ll get lip-service from their candidate, and a pat on the back for “seeing the light”, but Romney will quickly forget who Wayne is if he beats Obama.

    Wayne needs to either become a libertarian — a real libertarian — or admit that he just doesn’t have the guts to let people live their own lives. It takes courage (guts) to let people live lifestyles that you don’t personally believe in and not put them down just because their way of life differs from your own. Only cowards want everyone to conform to their beliefs. It makes them feel safe.

  86. Joe Buchman Post author

    Austin @ 104

    “On the other hand, I’m actually pretty proud that we have someone like Gary Johnson being the standard-bearer of the Libertarian Party. Sure, he isn’t perfect in every issue, but he doesn’t have to cover up or lie”

    I think I know how you’re feeling. I drove down to Santa Fe in December for the announcement thinking I would uncover another Bob Barr. WOW was I surprised. First when he RE-registered as a Libertarian (the LP national office had found the paperwork for his registration as a Libertarian in the 1990s, prior to his run for governor).

    Since then I’ve been gradually increasing my volunteer work for the campaign. (I’ve got to tell you I would also vote, any time, for Ron Nielson for President. He is one stand-up, honorable guy who is GREAT, in my experience, to work with.)

    Since December I’ve been fortunate enough to have breakfast with Gary and most of the SLC based campaign staff, and then (and this will remain one of the highlights of my life for the rest of my life) breakfast with Andre Marrou and Gary. My enthusiasm for the campaign went from something like “dedicated” to “boundless” during that breakfast. (Andre went from non-active-supporter of the LP, to staying for lunch and making a donation to the campaign — as well as the best Libertarian speech ever.)

    http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/06/1992-libertarian-presidential-candidate-andre-marrou-gives-speech-to-texas-lp-convention-full-transcript-follows/

    All we need to do to get this guy elected is to get America to know him. That’s it.

    And I think the history of what happened in those 9 years in New Mexico (1 running, 8 serving) and the love most New Mexicans have for him even today, proves that.

  87. Paulie

    Joe

    It would be easy for Root to run against an incumbent Romney from the right in 2016, making the argument that Romney sold out the right (which he would of course have done by then, after all he is Romney).

    However, I don’t think he would be running against an incumbent Romney, since I believe Obama will get re-elected. Thus it would be an open seat in 2016.

    The problem is more the whole “from the right” part. I want our candidate running at the Ds an Rs from the left on those issues where we are on the left at least much as from the right. Wayne doesn’t. That’s why he is not likely to become my candidate for the nomination. I would much prefer to see Gary Johnson run again if he is willing after this. Or someone else who takes the issues where the left tries to sound libertarian seriously and puts them front and center.

  88. Jill Pyeatt

    Let’s also remember that beyond Wayne’s recruiting from the right, he generally insults and ridicules those on the left, which has been my compaint about him from the beginning. I wouldn’t have so much of a problem with him if he really did have a big tent, but, in reality, his big tent only has a door on the right.

  89. JT

    Jill: “I wouldn’t have so much of a problem with him if he really did have a big tent, but, in reality, his big tent only has a door on the right.”

    Well put.

  90. Jill Pyeatt

    Also, the question of whether Wayne knows what so many Libertarians dislike him for is a good one. My opinion is that he does not fully realize what the problems are. I believe he is a Narcissist, and he truly believes he is better and has more to offer than the rest of us. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

    I also agree with Stewart that Root has already left the paarty, whether he realizes that or not.

  91. Mario Conde

    Wayne has talked about his possible run for U.S. Senator for the State of Nevada in 2016. I think he would be a good Senator and from there he would get a credible chance to become POTUS in 2024.

  92. Trent Hill

    “@94 Firefly is my all time favorite television program. It was cancelled long before I ever heard of it, but I’ve watched the DVDs and Serenity as well repeatedly.”

    I watched the last episode of Firefly live on television. After one episode I was hooked, but obviously it had already been canceled by then. I saw Serenity at a midnight showing and participated in buying (several) copies of the TV series in order to boost interest. Browncoats rock :P. I’ve also found that most people love the libertarian themes and true fans tend to be libertarian themselves.

    I’m glad to find another fan of the show. I’ve never seen Otherworld, but i’ll be looking into it now.

  93. Tom Blanton

    He obviously feels that his plan to get the nomination in 2016 and 2020 is in peril. He does not understand why, and does not understand that his own actions and rhetoric have been the cause of much of the resentment against him.

    Well, maybe Wayne isn’t too bright, but he’s still the biggest asshole the LP has. It’s not like you have to be a genius to be an excellent asshole.

  94. From Der Sidelines

    By power I mean elected power. He’s still got his minions in Visek, Wiener, and eternal gadfly Liebermann. Behind-the-scenes influence is diminished for now, but it’s best if what’s left of the membership after their pillaging keeps it that way.

  95. Stewart Flood

    I would say probably about six:

    Pojunis, Visek, Mack, and (from time to time) Olsen.
    Alternates: Lieberman, Goldstein,

    There are several new alternates that I do not know, so I will give them the benefit of assuming they don’t support him.

  96. Stewart Flood

    I disagree with the assumption that Dan Wiener is a supporter of Wayne. I have never gotten the impression that he follows anyone blindly. He makes his own decisions, based on the issues. I believe that if Wayne Root were shown to be in violation of his fiduciary duty as a board member, he would consider all the facts and base his vote solely on his analysis of the nature of the acts, the case for removal, as well as any defense submitted.

    I have a lot of respect for Dan Wiener, even though we did not always agree on every issue. He did vote a number of times with Mr Starr’s group, but those votes were made because he agreed with them on that specific issue. (I also voted with them at times, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day).

    I have also seen him fight against them to give an issue a fair hearing. He is certainly among the small group of LNC members that I gained a considerable amount of respect for while serving on the committee.

  97. paulie

    LNCC and LSLA are potentially very powerful, regardless of who holds the balance of power on the LNC which has yet to be seen.

  98. Joe Buchman

    Libertarian Girl @ 109. Fairly certain Wayne is still reading IPR daily, and just trying to give some helpful advice. Silly me, huh?

    Paul Vigil again on the 11th or 18th?!?! Wonderground on the 19th?!?!

    Paulie @ 110. I tend to agree. The election appears to be over in over 40 states right now with President Obama having a significant lead in electoral college votes.

    http://newmexico.watchdog.org/14456/obama-vs-romney-a-look-at-the-electoral-college-map/

    Perhaps the telethon tomorrow can turn that around!

    http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2012/06/july-4th-defeat-obama-telethon.html

    [Update- 7/3/12] Confirmed guest list for the July 4th, Defeat Obama Telethon (Via email)

    Herman Cain – 2012 Republican presidential candidate and founder of Cain’s Solutions.

    Sheriff Joe Arpaio – “America’s Sheriff” Janine Turner – Radio talk show host, television commentator and actress.

    Dick Morris – Political analyst, author.

    Phyllis Schlafly – Founder, Eagle Forum

    Wayne Allyn Root – 2008 Vice Presidential candidate for the Libertarian Party, author of “The Conscience of a Libertarian: Empowering the Citizen Revolution with God, Guns, Gold and Tax Cuts” and a television commentator.

    Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher – Joe The Plumber, Congressional candidate.

    Melanie Morgan – Radio talk show host, author of “American Mourning” and a television commentator.

    Jackie Mason – Comedian and actor.

    Alveda King – Niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Christian minister, pro-life activist and author.

    Amy Kremer – Chairman, Tea Party Express.

    Joe Miller – 2010 Republican nominee for U.S. Senate (Alaska) and former federal magistrate.

    Dr. Gina Loudon – Radio talk show host, tea party activist.

    Jedediah Bila – Author, television & radio political commentator.

    Judson Phillips – Founder, Tea Party Nation and Director, TheTeaParty.net

    Floyd Brown – ExposeObama.com

    Victoria Jackson – Actress, activist and former “Saturday Night Live” cast member.

    Deroy Murdock – Syndicated columnist and contributing editor for National Review.

    Debbie Lee – Gold Star Mom – Director, Move America Forward and Founder of America’s Mighty Warriors.

    William Gheen – President, Americans for Legal Immigration PAC.

    Ryan Mauro – National Security Analyst, RadicalIslam.com

    Teri Christoph – Co-Chair of She-PAC, and Co-Founder and Vice President of Smart Girl Politics.

    Pamela Geller – Author, blogger, political commentator.

    Jason Mattera – Editor of Human Events, author.

    Dr. Melissa Clouthier – Conservative leader on Twitter.

    Pat Dollard – Former Hollywood agent, patriot and filmmaker.

    Tabitha Hale – Director of New Media of The Franklin Center.

    Eric Odom – Director of Interactive Media at Grassfire Nation.

    Danny Tarkanian – Congressional candidate.

    Terresa Monroe Hamilton – Conservative blogger, “The Progressive Hunter.”

    Ali Akbar – Vice President, Vice & Victory

    David Codrea – Gun Rights Examiner, broke Fast & Furious scandal.

    Ted Cruz – Candidate for U.S. Senate, Former Solicitor General of Texas.

    Dan Riehl – Riehl World View

    Joe

  99. Jill Pyeatt

    I’ll be certain to listen in tomorrow so I can hear Wayne urge the listening audience to Vote Libertarian! It’s gotta be Gary Johnson!

  100. Paulie

    @123 Maybe there’s still time for Gary Johnson to get invited and join in on telling everyone what a bad man Barack Obama is.

    How bad is Barack Obama? Why, he’s so bad that he took the single worst policy championed and implemented by Mitt Romney and pushed by right wing think tanks for years and exported it to all the other states!

    Barack Obama is so bad that not only did he not bring the troops home from Afghanistan after seven long years there (when he started), he actually increased troop levels, and they are still there now over three years later!

    Obama is such a bad man, not only did he not end Bush’s medical marijuana raids, he increased them!

    [etc in this vein]
    \
    Please folks, we can’t allow someone who would subject the citizens he is entrusted to govern to a medical insurance mandate (what next – debtors prisons?) to be in the White House for the next four years! It’s really awful that we have TWO people like that running, and one of them might even win!

    OK…gotta throw more red meat in there…but you get the idea.

    I think that speech would go over really well with that audience, don’t you?

  101. Sane LP Member

    @ 120

    All regional reps. on your list.
    Convention can’t touch them.
    I would say, leave it alone. Regions choose them.

  102. Paulie

    You don’t think they would deny Gary Johnson a speaking slot…after they used his name and picture to promote the event, do you?

  103. Root's Teeth Are Awesome

    How bad is Obama?

    Obama is so bad that Obama took Root’s advice.

    In 2008, Root advocated an Afghan surge.

    In 2009, Obama implemented an Afghan surge.

    Whereupon, Root condemned Obama for implementing an Afghan surge.

  104. NewFederalist

    Paulie… that is a great idea BUT I am sure you know that would go over like a lead balloon in front of that crowd. I would like to see him do it, however.

  105. George Phillies

    @119, 121 The vote analysis seems to put Root and (not as much) Redpath in that clique. Nominating M for Judicial committee and several other acts forwarding the anti-povertarians is also suspicious, but we should let the voting trend appear first before naming the responsible person.

  106. Root's Teeth Are Awesome

    The telethon is also being discussed on the Bigoted Rightist site, Free Republic: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2902644/posts

    Root’s photo is there. His description is by far the longest. Either it’s because his ego is so big, or because he’s so obscure that people have to be told who he is.

    If you read the comments, it’s clear that the people see this telethon as a Romney event.

    I call Free Republic a bigoted site because many posters (on other threads), instead of saying “Muslim,” will use terms like “Muzzies” and “Moose-limbs” and “that Satanic pedophile religion.”

    Gays are often called “homos” or “fudge chasers” or “traveling the Hersey highway” or whatever.

    Mexican immigrants don’t fare much better.

    Root is certainly appealing to a nice group of folks.

    OTOH, maybe it’s better that millions of these people aren’t following Root into the LP.

  107. Stewart Flood

    @120,

    I wasn’t suggesting doing anything about them. I was just listing who his supporters are. Someone had asked how much support he had.

    I do not believe that any of the officers or other at-large members would be considered to be disciples of Root. Last term, half the officers and half the at-large members were, as well as at least one other regional representative. He has lost most of his support.

  108. Sane LP Member

    Maybe not suggested, but now they are targeted. Go get em folks. Purge them via a regional coup. Let’s wipe out anyone that happens to vote in similiar fashion. But wait, what about others who vote opposite but tend to vote together. Should they be purged also? You guys are a joke.

  109. paulie

    Steve Linnabary posted on the previous thread about this:

    FWIW, Wayne did do a fairly good job of explaining libertarianism and the LP to the so-called TEA Party audience. And Wayne did put in a good plug for Governor Johnson.

  110. paulie

    Steve Linnabary also reports on the Defeat Obama Telethon

    Just watching the comments in the chat window leads me to believe that it isn’t the policies of Obama that have these people riled, but rather Obama’s race. I really doubt these people can be reached.

    I will note that there were two candidates on before Root, both running against Libertarians (Ted Cruz running against JJ Myers and Joe “The Plumber” Wurtzelbacher running against Sean Stipe in the 9th district here in Ohio) . And neither of them can be counted on to oppose big government spending.

  111. paulie

    Sane LP Member

    Who is talking about a purge, other than you?

    The only thing I saw said was that Mr. Starr still has considerable influence on the LNC, even though he is not currently a member himself.

    This was in response to

    Tom Blanton

    Well, maybe Wayne isn’t too bright, but he’s still the biggest asshole the LP has. It’s not like you have to be a genius to be an excellent asshole.

    and

    From Der Sidelines

    Well, now that Starr is out of power, yeah…

    Discussing alliances and friendships on the national committee should not necessarily be taken as a call for a purge, which as you correctly note would not be effective anyway, since most of the people in question are regional reps and their election is up to the states in their respective regions.

  112. George Phillies

    A purge of regionals requires persuading state chairs.

    I count several additional people who consistently lined up with Starr, other than Stewart’s

    “Pojunis, Visek, Mack, and (from time to time) Olsen. Alternates: Lieberman, Goldstein,”

    Root, Wiener, and Redpath come immediately to mind, and Lark went along to get along. There is also at least one new member and one additional Alternate who appear to be dropping into that camp.

  113. Zany LP Member

    Probably also

    Alternate – Michael Knebel

    Based on comments to date

  114. Mark Hilgenberg

    @ Paulie 144

    He starts about 24 minutes in, skip ahead.

    http://www.campaigntodefeatobama.com/

    I am not fond of him saying we are kissing cousins with conservatives, Tea Party and the GOP, we are in the same tent.

    I don’t get the whole Obama is a socialist thing, plus Obama has spent way less than Bush. He just repeats conservative myths.

    “If it is not going to be Gary Johnson I certainly hope Romney defeats Obama” 31:00

  115. Robert Capozzi

    145 mh: Obama has spent way less than Bush.

    me: News to me. Please expand.

  116. Robert Capozzi

    147 Nutting’s been debunked, if that’s what you’re referring to. Getting into the muck of BHO vs. W doesn’t help Ls except to say that were both contra-liberty.

    I rooted BHO over JMc while voting BB. I can’t root BHO or MR since both are contras and neither is frighteningly insane like JMc, so I’ll just support GJ.

  117. LibertarianGirl

    Okay , so this is me eating my words , I apologize to wayne , he did pretty darn good on the telethon…..Ill be sending him a private email reiterating as much..:/

  118. Sane LP Member

    Get out the marshmellows for Mr. Knebel.
    Somebody bring the firewood.
    He’s from the Midwest which may be strke one in the LP.

  119. Steve M

    Wayne Root was elected at the Libertarian Convention by the voting representatives. To remove an elected lnc member because other libertarians disagree with their politics is offensive whether the Target is Angela or Wayne.

  120. From Der Sidelines

    @157: It’s more like removing him BECA– USE HE ISN’T LIBERTARIAN AT ALL!

  121. John Jay Myers

    @141
    The next time one of my nephews asks me to be a candle lighter at their Bar Mitzvah I am going to have to tell them no, to bad to cause I liked doing it.

    This whole anti-semite thing is going to take my family some getting used to.

    And me too, considering we had 3 choices for region 7 alternate, just last week, and I chose the Jewish guy, I keep forgetting I am an anti-semite…damnit.

    However since some nameless person on the interwebs says it’s true it must be true.

  122. Jill Pyeatt

    The term “Anti-Semite” has been so overused, and used so incorrectly, that it really doesn’t mean anything anymore.

  123. Stewart Flood

    George@139,

    I was counting LNC members who drink the Root cool aid, not members who voted for issues championed by Mr Starr. One passes out grape cool aid, the other’s is fruit punch. (very bad pun intended)

  124. George Phillies

    @120, 163 Oh, you were talking about Root, not Starr. Apologies for missing the point of your comments. I don’t disagree with you on that.

    I hope that your business is doing well and that you will have time for writing soon. I am just now doing the proofreading pass on another novel.

  125. Joe Buchman

    @ 136 and @ 150.

    Glad to see these reports. I’ve been too busy with the next set of endorsements, my online courses, finding a new renter and the wildfire 1 mile from our other home in Alpine UT, to watch the Telethon.

    If Wayne keeps this up — if he’s becoming more mainstream Libertarian — then who know’s what’s possible!

    I’m pleased by what I’m reading here, and for the record, do not believe in holding people to their past. It’s more about the current campaign and the future, than the past both for Wayne and some of the criticism I’ve been hearing about past statements of some of the other candidates we’ve endorsed.

    Joe

  126. Stewart Flood

    I expected it to be bad. He has too much invested in his self promotion to no swing with the political current — as he sees it.

    The comments about conservative movement. Ugh. Just what is the conservative movement? It certainly isn’t libertarian, even with a small letter l.

  127. Aaron Starr

    Mark @ 166

    I watched the video and encourage others to do so.

    I especially like how Wayne Root found a way to shoehorn in a pitch for Gary Johnson to an audience that is predisposed towards voting for Romney. If Wayne wasn’t a participant, those people simply would not have been exposed to Gary Johnson.

  128. Stewart Flood

    Could someone post (or repost in case I missed it above) a link to the video of his portion of the telethon?

  129. Pingback: Wayne Root on Defeat Barack Obama Telethon: Video and Reviews | Independent Political Report

  130. Steve M

    #158, a lot of think you are WRONG. who died and made you king? Stop the anti-libertarian purged now. Why don’t you go out and do something productive instead!

  131. Bubbalicious

    Well yeah a lot of people on both sides think each other’s wrong. But it ain’t as wrong as what happened when I started kissin’ on my cousin. Now that was for real wrong!

  132. Steve M

    #175, so you support over turning how the national convention voted? And you are queen who determines who is a libertarian and who isn’t?

  133. George Phillies

    @177 The National Convention specifically voted to give the power to suspend Officers and At-Large members. Therefore, if the National Committee votes to suspend an At-Large member, they are sustaining the vote of the convention.

  134. Steve M

    George, and if the lnc tries to do so it will be as stupid as when they went after Angela. I voted with my dollars then and would do so again! This type of bs is just that, bs.

  135. Jill Pyeatt

    SM @ 177: If Root had gone on the Telethon and helped Romney, then I think the LNC should have taken some kind of measures to let him know that was inappropriate. No, I’m not queen, but endorsing someone as president who is not our candidate is not a purity test. This is discusssion–that’s what we do here at IPR.

  136. Steve M

    Jill, helping Romney is a very subjective question. Discussing whether Wayne’s actions helped or hurt our candidate is a discussion. Jumping to advocating kicking him off the LNC is in my opinion supporting an autocratic action by a small group against the express desires of the larger group.

  137. paulie

    The votes are nowhere close to being there for kicking Wayne off, regardless of what anyone thinks of the idea.

  138. Jill Pyeatt

    The main point of this week’s telethon brouhaha is that Wayne CAN and DOES at times listen to his detractors, and that’s a step in the right direction. I appreciate that.

  139. Ad Hoc

    That may well be, although we can’t prove that what he said was changed in any way by the controversy — I’m sure many will suspect it anyway.

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