Robert Wenzel: NY State Libertarian Party War!

Published July 23, 2013 on Economic Policy Journal

By Robert Wenzel

If you are not a scholar of internal third party squabbles, this will have no value other than entertainment value. But, entertaining it is. Grab your popcorn.On June 8, Kristin Davis put out a press release that said in part:

LIBERTARIAN PARTY ENDORSES EX-MADAM

Ex-Madam Kristin Davis, best known for her role in supplying escorts for former Governor Eliot Spitzer, announced that she will run as the Libertarian Party Candidate for New York City Comptroller against Democrat Scott Stringer. Davis was endorsed by the New York City Libertarian Party nominating convention in Queens last night.

During my interview with Roger Stone, he identified Davis as the Libertarian Party candidate.  But I recieved an email from Dave Narby, it said:

Great podcast.  Unfortunately, Kristin Davis IS NOT THE LP CANDIDATE.  She lost the vote 2:1.Hesham El-Meligy is the NYS LP candidate for Comptroller.http://meligy.us/

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hesham-El-Meligy/170781013093976?directed_target_id=0

Hesham is a great candidate and a great American, and deserves.  Please issue a correction.

I asked Narby for proof, he responded with this

Frankly, I’m pretty fucking pissed off that Davis and your guest presented her as the candidate.  You should be too, as they are clearly using the LP for their own aggrandizement.

The press was understandably happy to promote Davis IMO because it makes the LP look like we aren’t worthy of serious consideration.  While Davis would be better than Spitzer, I doubt she would be better than the Republican candidate.

El Meligy is a principled Libertarian, an accountant, and a NYC resident who is civically in the community, IMO he is the most qualified to hold the position.  But the press would rather the LP had a former madam as the candidate.

I am proud that the LP chapter I helped found (and ran for NYS assembly under) successfully fielded him as a candidate.  I am proud that we helped to raise the profile of the LP in Richmond county and NYS.  I am royally pissed off that opportunists are taking advantage of all our hard work to draw attention to themselves for their own selfish benefit, and making the LP look like clowns in the bargain.

I have put too much time into this party and movement to see it co-opted by an opportunist and a skank.  Seriously Robert:  WTF.

I contacted both Stone and Davis, here are their responses.
Kristin Davis writes:

Whoever this person speaking is – has no clue what they are talking about. I was nominated on April 9th by over 70 people

http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2013/04/kristin-davis-declines-lp-nomination-for-nyc-mayor-to-run-for-comptroller/

While I’ve heard a small faction has thrown a 2nd convention with their whopping 8 people in an illegal attempt to overturn the results of the first- however I do not acknowledge that nor does the biggest Libertarian Chapter in NY and the ones who organized and chaired the original convention. http://drtomstevens.blogspot.com/2013/07/kristin-davis-libertarian-partys.html

Roger Stone writes:
 I’d don’t know who this asshole is but the New York City Libertarian convention met on  April 9 and 71 people were eligible to vote under the rules.

Kristin Davis was nominated for Comptroller.

A small dissident faction of  Libertarians, unhappy with the result, held a rump convention–8 people participated.  All of them voted in the previous convention.They “voided” the results of the previous convention and nominated a radical Islamist named El Meligy. No he is not the legitimate nominee of the LP–he is the nominee of a handful of loudmouths who can’t face their crushing defeat and can’t muster more than 8 people for a “convention’

The Libertarian Party is unrecognized in the state of New York. The assertion that prior use of the name or tradmarking of the name or filing of the name as a PAC gives
one control of the name is false.
 The Board of Elections will rule on this if two “Libertarian” candidates file for the same office. If either side is unhappy with the ruling they can sue
the BOE. 
We welcome both the BOE ruling and a law-suit. Some local “libertarians” need to be spanked . They will be .

We will , of course challenge El Meligy’s petititons and will refer fraud to the local District Attorney for criminal prosecution.

Worst case– the BOE directs either candidate or both  chose another name. Kristin Davis can garner publicity and raise money. It would only be the Libertarian party’s loss. Candidates who cannot raise the New York City Campaign Finance Board matching fund threshold are not required to be in the fall debates. The Al Queda candidate ,El Meligy cannot hope to meet this threshold, despite the strong support he is getting from the Muslim Brotherhood and the Taliban.

Kristin Davis will be on the ballot and in the debates with or without the Libertarian Party label.

Enjoyed doing the show and appreciate your interest in my upcoming book.

40 thoughts on “Robert Wenzel: NY State Libertarian Party War!

  1. Thomas L. Knapp

    Someone might want to explain more fully to Wenzel how he (presumably innocently) got duped by the Tom Stevens Fan Club and Republican dirty tricks artist Stone.

  2. JD

    Frankly if the LP in any state runs, while I am a member, any prostitute or purveyor of such, I will immediately quit the party and cease all financial support for the party at all levels. It is one thing to believe that prostitution should be legal and well regulated. It is also no big deal to believe Davis is more noble than Spitzer. I refuse however to support or condone theactions of any prostitute.

    Why are people making a joke of the LP within the ranks of the party? We signed up and agred to up hold Libertarian Party principles. We are not lawless libertines. I am pissed she was even considered frankly. The second she is on the ballot I bolt.

  3. Thomas L. Knapp

    JD @ 4,

    If you won’t vote for a prostitute, you can’t vote at all. The definition of an elected official is someone who’s paid to fuck us all.

  4. Robert Capozzi

    JD, just curious: What if Michael Milken, Jeff Skilling or Bernie Ebbers were to get an LP nomination, do you feel the same way about their criminal pasts and its association with a political party?

    I actually do hear you, but it’s funny how a taboo crime (pimping) stings more than a financial crime, for ex. Why single out one felony conviction and not another for your reason to bolt?

    iirc, btw, Davis was never a prostitute, only a madam. Calling her a prostitute only strengthens the taboo.

    We are pretty much all “selling ourselves,” it’s just that prostitute sell their bodies for service and pleasure. It’s more understandable to me than, say, Anthony Weiner’s behavior, which bespeaks a rather serious case of OCD.

  5. Steven Berson

    Article IV Section A – “Each LPNY member in good standing on December 31 of the prior year and on the date of any LPNY Convention shall be entitled to one vote at such LPNY Convention. The Convention shall have the discretion to allow other members in good standing to vote on any or all matters unless three (3) members who are entitled to vote object. No voting by proxy will be permitted.”
    Article IX – “Robert’s Rules of Order (latest edition) shall be the only parliamentary authority at the state level of the LPNY for all matters of procedures not specifically covered in these By-Laws.”

    There was NO credentialing or Credentials Committee for the first Convention in April. The Bylaws are clear as to the requirements to be a voting delegate during any Convention – NONE of the voters for the April were verified to have met the requirements – thus the April Convention’s results are null and void. There WAS credentialing done for the June Convention – a Convention which Kristin Davis and any supporters of hers were in fact invited to. Kristin Davis was in fact nominated during the June Convention – but the endorsement went by over2/3rd’s majority to Hesham El-Meligy. Hesham El-Meligy IS the NY Libertarian Party’s candidate for Comptroller – NOT Kristin Davis.

  6. Steven Berson

    Roger Stone says regarding the June Convention – “8 people participated” is inaccurate. From my count there were 19 voting, 26 attending.

    Roger Stone alleging completely unfounded racist remarks both in this interview and via Twitter that Hesham el-Meligy is associated with “Al-Qaeda” shows that Stone sees people in groups rather than as individuals – once again obviously showing he is in fact completely anti-libertarian in his conduct. Evidence such as this, his attempt to get the LP Mayoral line for Joe Lhota (who is Republican and not libertarian) and in his previous slanders of 2010 LP candidate for NY Governor Warren Redlich shows that his main goal of his recent so called political activism is simply to disrupt the LP from the inside.

  7. George Phillies

    @JD Hopefully you are counting in your complaint people who were previously elected as Democrats or Republicans, though many of them will say they sold their country not their body.

    Incidentally, it is my recollection that the last person to falsely accuse Ms Davis of prostitution got sued for libel, iirc successfully and if I recall the facts correctly deservedly.

  8. Andy

    “JD // Jul 24, 2013 at 11:36 am

    Frankly if the LP in any state runs, while I am a member, any prostitute or purveyor of such, I will immediately quit the party and cease all financial support for the party at all levels. It is one thing to believe that prostitution should be legal and well regulated. It is also no big deal to believe Davis is more noble than Spitzer. I refuse however to support or condone theactions of any prostitute.

    Why are people making a joke of the LP within the ranks of the party? We signed up and agred to up hold Libertarian Party principles. We are not lawless libertines. I am pissed she was even considered frankly. The second she is on the ballot I bolt.”

    This strikes me as an irrational reason to bolt from the party. If you don’t think that Kristen Davis is a good candidate, then don’t vote for her, and don’t support her campaign. She’s only running for a city office in New York, it’s not like she’s running for President.

  9. JD

    #6 I said prostitute or purveyor of such. I clearly prefaced my comment and never called her a prostitute. I said I can’t condone the actions of any prostitute. By which I mean those in said industry. She was a purveyor of such. I never mentioned any other crimes because those do not pertain to the subject at hand. In short I will not support any party that promotes those who have committed any crime involving coercion against another person or theft from anyone. I would never support a felon, of any variety, in anything for any reason.

    We all have to also pick our own moral stances. I can’t support the Republicans because of discrimination. The Dems because of reverse descrimination which is still discrimination. I can not and will not support prostitutes or purveyors thereof, drug dealers, arms smugglers, rum runners, or adulterers etc. There is no need to list everything that I can not personally tolerate.

    Just because I know the government is not allowed to outlaw, regulate, or control certain things doesn’t mean that I have to personally accept them. Libertarianism is about choice. I choose to make this stance. I am a Libertarian and personally a conservative restoration Christian. I am not a libertine. I am not leading an insurrection or an uprising. I am stating my limits as dictated by my own conscience.

    If you have a personal morality that allows such things then that is your personal issue. I am not encouraging anyone to leave the party or join my faith. I can not condemn anyone for following their heart but I can remove myself from their presence. I hope this is clear.

  10. Jill Pyeatt

    RC @ 6 says:” it’s just that prostitute sell their bodies for service and pleasure”.

    Isn’t that what athletes do, sell their bodies for service and pleasure?

    .

  11. JD

    I see no reason why someone can’t sell their body for service or pleasure. But to be specific professional athletes are much more akin to actors than prostitutes. Athletes are also considered employees if they are members of a team sport. I would say that a prostitute is an independent contractor despite who distributes them and their wares.

    I also personally prefer amateur sports. Alas, Amos Alonzo Stagg is gone and their are no great advocates of the sanctity of amateurism.

  12. Jill Pyeatt

    I am really curious to see how this will play out. The media is having lots of fun with the Davis vs. Spitzer thing, and it will take some kind of huge hammer to get the actual state of things known.

  13. Mark Axinn

    LPNY will submit more petition signatures than required in the normal course as we always do.

    Kristin Davis sent out a fundraising letter today, indicating that she needs money for petitioning, etc.

    So we will not know what she will submit until next month.

  14. Jill Pyeatt

    So, what will happen next? If El-Meligy has less signatures than Ms. Davis, will she become the candidate?

  15. Steven Wilson

    People, People

    this is the Libertarian party way. We must continue to fight each other and play with robbies rules and other such common sense ideals as to do nothing when it comes time to vote.

    We should never make time to make a difference. We should never involve ourselves with movements that help people live a better life.

    To war with each other. The Libertarian Path to Non-Freedom.

    (This will help us replace Oregon) turn that frown upside down!!

  16. Han Shot First

    “Frankly if the LP in any state runs, while I am a member, any prostitute or purveyor of such, I will immediately quit the party and cease all financial support for the party at all levels.”

    There’s a prostitute on the LNC who happens to be a fine person. Who cares if a candidate is a prostitute? The party supports legalization, yet you can’t support someone who engages in it.

  17. Reality Watch

    Kristin Davis is a flashy functional candidate in the Aaron Russo mold.

    Hashalam El-Meghi is the boring hobo candidate in the mold of Michael Badnarik.

  18. Erik Viker

    Jill @19, Tom Stevens calling anybody else a buffoon is HILARIOUS. Bonus lolz from him quoting that anti-Islam bigot Dallwyn Merck (one of the Stevens inner circlejerk) as a source in a fake journalism blog entry about an Arabic candidate.

  19. Robert Capozzi

    12 jp: Isn’t that what athletes do, sell their bodies for service and pleasure?

    me: Ha! Not quite. We only watch athletes, for the most part. We don’t touch them. And specifically private parts are not touched in any other profession, except maybe ob/gyn docs!

  20. JD

    George, I said while I am a member. There have been many LP candidates, and other third party candidates, over the years that have been mistakes. I was born in 1986. Since I have been a member there has been no evidence of anything that I can’t tolerate.

    Why is it so hard to think that I know people should be allowed to do things and at the same time choose to not associate with them when they do those things? Pot should be legal but I don’t hang with pot smokers or dealers. Prostitution should be legal but I don’t hang out with those in that industry.

    Why is it assumed that just because I am a member of the LP I can’t have personal standards and morals, which are my own, that might prevent me from associating with the LP eventually?

    I am not condemning anyone. Each is free to choose their own path. While I am around though I have my standards of conduct. If those are infringed then I will remove myself from the presence of those offenders. The LP can set personal conduct regulations on its candidates. It is a private organization. It simply chooses not to and has sometimes attracted less than noble candidates and characters.

    Have you, George, nothing better to do than scrutinize my moral foundations? Am I that interesting? If I really am you are welcome to read your nearest Book of Mormon or as some call it The Chronicle of the Nephites. In said document you will understand all you need to know about me and my internal Liahona.

    I know you can read. So re-read everything I wrote before you pipe off with another question or comment which has already been addressed. The last post, 22, was acknowledged as a courtesy. I will not repeat myself again and I will only provide you info so long as you are willing to actually seek it. Have a good day George.

  21. Eric Sundwall

    War?

    I’ve always counted on the real time it takes things to come up the Hudson.

    This is just another squabble started by the most important chapter in NY . . . The one that rarely gets a signature for statewide offices. Queens.

    They let the rabble in and the old guard wasn’t up to it. Guaranteed Stone and his handpicked novelty next year don’t even show up for the big parade . . . just like in 2010.

    At best Davis gets some traction in the micro-bubble of media she gets from the court fight and the LPNY wastes too much time and money defending itself from another Sloan type assault. In the end, not worth it. Unless your Sam.

  22. Oranje Mike

    Since we’re on the topic of of LPNY being at war, is there any relation to folks formally within the LPNY and the new 1787 For America party?

  23. Eric Sundwall

    Will – Sam thinks he was somehow entilitled and/or ripped off during the 2010 nomination. His brief ally, Stevens bolstered him with all of the 12 votes the Queens faction could muster in opposition when Ms. Davis didn’t show up to their chagrin.

    Sam waged a judicial feint that didn’t amount to much. The most damaging facet of which was the blog entry reference he used against Warren that spawned the whole Stone predator attack.

    Whether or not one can identify any “nature” in this so called animosity is matter of temperament. But I’ve said too much already . . .

  24. Edward Weaver

    I have to agree with Gigi on this one: in the end, this is just more of the same nonsense that makes Libertarians look bad right, wrong or otherwise. Who cares what Kristen Davis once did, what matters is will she live up to what she promises to do if elected. Threatening to leave the party because a former madam (or whatever profession of ‘ill repute’) might be endorsed by it shows that you do NOT hold Libertarian values at heart. Yes, you may dislike her endorsement, but you cannot pick and choose what you think is ‘proper’ for society or a group whilst also claiming to be a Libertarian. As long as the profession is victimless & the participant(s) are/is consenting, then all is fair game.

    What should be the cause for concern here is the ‘struggle’ (power struggle?) that is seemingly ripping the NYLP apart. This must end and we must come together, but those who deserve to be should be called out for their un-libertarian (or even deceitful) ways. Things have been said and done by certain individuals which show that they are more of a threat to what this party desires then a former madam. We know who these people are and they should be called out for it. The LPs biggest threat is from within and not from without.

  25. Nicholas Sarwark

    Oh, Dr. Tom and his ever-changing cast of front groups.

    The article @31 references “Patrick Lembo, Chair of Downstate Libertarians, a chartered chapter of Empire State Libertarians” which some quick searching found this page for Empire State Libertarians and Libertarian Patriots, nee Libertarian Patriots of New York, all run by Dr. Tom.

    Dr. Tom appointed Mr. Lembo chair of Downstate Libertarians on July 24, 2013, and Mr. Lembo paid his national LP dues on July 26, 2013. It’s not clear if this is the same Patrick Lembo who stole $200K from his uncle with dementia and is on 12 years of probation to pay it back.

    What a maroon.

  26. JD

    32, I am living Libertarian values. I am choosing my own personal associations. I am not suggesting people leave the party only myself. It is obvious you are not capable of understanding liberty.

  27. Thomas L. Knapp

    RW @ 31,

    This whole thing isn’t about the merits of the prospective candidates.

    It’s about which organization — the Libertarian Party of New York or one of Tom Stevens’s vanity orgs that masquerades as a Libertarian Party — controls the ballot line in question.

  28. paulie

    JD, Starchild is a frequent LP candidate. If you haven’t been in the LP since the last time he ran you haven’t been in the LP very long, and if you won’t be in the LP after he runs again you probably won’t stay in the LP long either. As to the larger issue, Wenzel got duped. Note which ticket is actually on the ballot and which one is not.

  29. langa

    JD, would you feel the same about the LP running a former soldier? I would argue that being a prostitute is a far nobler profession than being a soldier.

    After all, prostitutes get paid to have sex with strangers, no questions asked. Soldiers get paid to kill strangers, no questions asked.

    Which is worse?

  30. paulie

    People can have their private moralities, no matter how odd some of us may find them. This particular one would mean JD won’t last in the LP very long, since we have and will continue to run candidates who are or were sex workers or otherwise in the sex business.

    I have some problems with Kristin Davis – her association with Roger Stone, her position on the so called “Ground Zero Mosque,” her constant party hopping, stepping aside for non-libertarian Republican Lhota who as it turns out did not even want the nomination (did no one bother to ask him first?)…but her former profession is not one of them.

  31. langa

    Paulie, I basically agree with your assessment of Davis. I have no problem with a “big tent” LP, but I would prefer that those who are chosen to represent the party as candidates would be a bit more ideologically pure.

    Of course, I know virtually nothing about Meligy, but the fact that a right-winger like Stone felt the need to smear him as an “Al Queda operative” would suggest that he can’t be all bad.

  32. paulie

    I’d like to hear more about these “radical muslim” allegations. Did Stone pull it out of his ass? Does he have supporting evidence? I would imagine that a fundamentalist, radical Muslim would find his religion to not be compatible with libertarianism, but a moderate Muslim may find the two to be perfectly in harmony. Thus my presumption about any Libertarian candidate who is a Muslim is that they are a moderate Muslim, unless there is some compelling reason to believe otherwise. Thus, unless some evidence to the contrary is presented, it seems Stone’s allegation is just a smear against anyone who happens to be Muslim (of any kind), or perhaps even against anyone with an Arabic name on the presumption they are Muslim without even bothering to check (which, in this case, I have not).

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