Lee Wrights Drops Out of Texas Gubernatorial Race

R. Lee Wrights has ended his campaign for the Libertarian Party nomination for governor of Texas. From the former candidate’s website:

We would like to thank the donors who gave when they honestly didn’t have the spare income to justify investing in Lee and his message of Peace and Prosperity. They will always be our beloved friends and family.

Best wishes to all LP Texas campaigns in 2014. We hope they will receive the support they deserve.

Speaking of LP campaigns and support, please deliver on your promises if you give them.

You can’t run a campaign on promises and likes on Facebook.

Farewell and Best Wishes,

Thomas Hill – Campaign Manager

Wrights went on to add his own comments:

No candidate can persevere unless he has the support of those who wish him/her to run. Unfortunately, I found I had far more broken promises than I had genuine support. Thomas Hill, and Cindi Lewis Maidens before him, are absolutely correct. As nice as they all are I, nor any candidate, can run a campaign on “likes” and “shares” on Facebook. It takes “dollars” and”cents”. Again unfortunately, I had far more of the former than I did the latter.

This is not a failing of Thomas Hill and R. Lee Wrights! If you promised along the way to support this campaign only to later make excuses instead of payments…this is your failing. I fulfilled my end of the bargain, so those who can’t keep their word are responsible for this failure.

Thanks to Nicholas Sarwark for this news.

184 thoughts on “Lee Wrights Drops Out of Texas Gubernatorial Race

  1. Jed Ziggler Post author

    Disappointing on every level. While I understand & share his frustration, there were far more tactful ways of handling this.

  2. Wes Wagner

    I think he was cut off by some people who were highly disappointed in his conduct on the LNC.

  3. Jill Pyeatt

    Wes might be right. I would be one of those people who is disappointed by his conduct on the LNC.

  4. Jed Ziggler Post author

    I’ll admit to not following everything the LNC does, so perhaps I’m in the dark on that aspect. I’ve just grown very tired of Kathie Glass.

  5. Jill Pyeatt

    I heard a couple weeks that there were 6 declared candidates for the LP governer candidacy. Maybe that should be written up as an article. Maybe I can get to it later in the week.

  6. Jed Ziggler Post author

    I do know our Lt. Gov. candidate, Brandon De Hoyos, is Latino, openly gay, and CUTE!

  7. Jill Pyeatt

    Yeah, Gene Chapman was doing something I never quite understood. I don’t know if he was ever a serious candidate.

  8. RedPhillips

    Wow! This strikes me as profoundly unhelpful. This burns bridges. Does this mean Wrights is unlikely to run again in the future?

    Also, you can run a campaign on likes and shares on FaceBook if that is how you envision your campaign, as primarily a virtual exercise in opposing the powers that be and spreading your message rather than an actual attempt to win office. More third party candidates with scarce resources should conceive of their campaigns in this way, IMO.

  9. Mark Axinn

    As one of Lee’s financial supporters, I am sorry he chose to back out. He represents a very important wing of the Libertarian Party, and I hope we have many more candidates of his ilk.

    I wish Lee all the best in his future endeavors.

  10. Nicholas Sarwark

    I did not pledge to the Texas gubernatorial run, but have supported his campaigns financially in the past (and would possibly do do in the future). If actual pledges fell through, as opposed to polite statements of support that were never going to be donations, that is unfortunate.

  11. William Saturn

    Wrights doesn’t take any responsibility for his failure? He should. It’s his failure. It’s a comment on his campaign that donors weren’t enthusiastic enough to give actual money.

  12. Pete Blome

    I respect Lee Wrights ever since I first heard him speak at the Florida Presidential debate in 2012. I liked the eloquent ease that he answered questions and his apparent confidence in himself and his cause. However, this was a poor way to end a campaign, especially for a man who has real leadership capability. This will only tend to make future donations for any libertarian less likely, and I can’t believe that is something he would wish.

  13. Steven Wilson

    Although I have admired his passion and energy, setting up conditionals for a campaign is never going to work. It would be the same in saying: “If you would only loan me the money for this business, I know it would make money and return your investment.”

    Candidates must light a fire before others can warm themselves. If a Libertarian is making an argument for a campaign to be bought for or paid for, then we should stop complaining about the corporate donors of the major two parties. In my view, it is the same thing. The money equals the desired outcome.

    It is unfortunate that his campaign is over, but someone with his experience went amateur hour with responses like these. Calling out donors is reason for moving on to a more grateful candidate. It also aids in sustaining morale in a long drawn out campaign when the candidate keeps the exit positive and void of blame.

  14. Antirevolutionary

    I’m sure Andy will be here soon. Looks like he was right after all. Now what’s wrong with Kathy Glass?

  15. Stewart Flood

    I’m amazed at his complete lack of tact in placing the blame on people who he thought were going to donate but didn’t.

    So what did he do with the money he received? I’m guessing payroll for his staff…who of course were not the cause of the failure!

  16. George Whitfield

    I was looking forward to donating to Wrights if he received the nomination. I vote in Florida so now I am focused on Lucas Overby for Congress. I suppose Lee did not think he had sufficient support of Texas Libertarians who, of course decide who they are going to nominate. I have learned from experience to donate to Libertarian candidates in states other than my own after they have been nominated.

  17. Steve M

    I am disappointed in the Wrights Campaign. I did make a donation. But it was a donation into a black hole. I received a thank you email and then a request for the usual contact info and who do you work for, but beyond that nothing. All of this back in August early September.

    You would think that a campaign would record the email addresses and then send regular updates, news, info about events etc.

    Nothing but silence…..

  18. Andy

    “Stewart Flood January 20, 2014 at 9:40 pm
    I’m amazed at his complete lack of tact in placing the blame on people who he thought were going to donate but didn’t.”

    I’m not surprised.

  19. Shane

    Agree with the lack of tact — but this also speaks to the inexperience of Lee and his team. A majority of pledges go unfulfilled, just a reality of fundraising and a reason why the best fundraisers close immediately rather than taking pledges.

    Lee has many positive qualities but I’m not sure if he’s candidate material — maybe the old Lee (sans suit and revival-like speeches) would have been better.

  20. Thomas L. Knapp

    My guess, but it’s just a guess, is that there’s a typo/Freudian slip in the statement and that what he mean to write was “This is not a failing of Thomas Hill and Cindi Lewis Maidens.” But no, it doesn’t come off very well.

    I talked with Lee before he announced, and even at that point he was skeptical. He wasn’t sure running for governor of Texas was a very smart move for someone who had only lived in the state for a few years. He was pretty tired of campaigning after the 2012 presidential race. But he also was getting strong signals of support from people who wanted him to run, felt like he owed continued efforts to those who supported hispresidential run, and in any case has always wanted to do whatever he felt the party needed him to do.

    Having run for office on the LP ticket five times, I understand the frustrations. There’s always more support BEFORE it’s time to write checks than there is when it’s time to get the checkbooks out.

    A lot of the people you reasonably expect (on the basis of their statements) to make significant donations back out on you (but on the flip side, you also see checks from people you never expected to write them).

    People who were all fired up to volunteer don’t show up when the time comes.

    And yeah, running the campaign operation from the office end always turns out to be ten times as complicated as it seems like it ought to be. You make mistakes. Your volunteers make mistakes. Things can go to shit real quick.

    You always end up running not only on far less money than you need (you know up front that that’s going to happen), but on quite a bit less money than you expected to have.

    And then on election day, all you can do is dig through the numbers and media coverage and try to find a bright side to focus on so that the next candidate, or yourself in the next campaign, has something to build on.

    There’s still not a fight on Earth where I wouldn’t put my money on Lee. Even if he loses, the other guy knows he was in a match.

  21. ATBAFT

    Like just about any organization, the LP is not immune from 90/10 rule. 90% of your “members” will do nothing. I sat in an annual church meeting on Sunday: it was to pass the budget, decide the ministers’ salaries, etc. They had a hard time meeting the 10% quorum rule. Weather wasn’t bad nor so beautiful people had other things to do. There are over 2,000 official members of the church yet the total attendance at 2012 services was only 56,000 – meaning a huge number undoubtedly attended very few services given that a hardcore is there every week for multiple services. One sees it too with the major parties – a couple hundred activists do all the political activity in the typical district while their party’s registration may be in the tens of thousands. If it takes hundreds on the ground to win races, then the LP is going to need tens of thousands of registered Libertarians to win any meaningful race in these districts. Wrights and others have been around long enough to understand how this 90/10 rule works in politics too. Take it into account and there is less chance of disappointment, burnout, etc.

  22. Spence

    Lee Wrights is being a true leader here and showing all the other Libertarian Party candidates the way! Please, Libertarian candidates all follow Lee Wrights lead and drop out.

  23. Thomas L. Knapp

    Spence,

    Sometimes I can see why Andy might mistake you for me.

    But there’s no point in LP candidates “dropping out” until and unless they decide for themselves that they should do so.

    I did so based on my own personal conclusion that electoral politics won’t get us where I want to go, or even efficaciously move us in that direction.

    But each person has to reach that conclusion — or not reach it — for himself or herself, and then act accordingly. Nobody can do another person’s thinking for them.

  24. Spence

    Thomas

    We can help them along that path by giving them zero support and instead sending them the link to Wendy McElroy’s article linked in my previous comment attached to the non-donation slip (if they send you a self-addressed stamped envelope use it for this purpose). The more of these envelopes they receive the more Libertarian candidates will drop out and join the non-voting brigades which are growing bigger. Now as for Andy thinking that I am you it must be because the poor lad is off his meds and off his rocker. I don’t think my style is anything like yours although we happen to agree about non-voting, but other than that what exactly is the similarity? That we have read Claire Wolfe? LOL.

  25. Thomas L. Knapp

    Spence,

    Wendy’s article is fundamentally flawed on one particular point. She writes:

    “Since 1982, ‘libertarian candidates’ have come and gone, leaving no trace except the draining of energy, ideals and cash from the movement. Millions of man hours have been wasted along with hundreds of millions of dollars.”

    Not a single thing has been “drained from the libertarian movement” by the LP’s activity. The energy, ideals, cash and man hours Wendy refers to belonged to those who disposed of them, not to “the movement.”

    If someone wants to spend a dollar or an hour on the LP, well, it’s their dollar or hour to spend. Wendy’s opinion, your opinion or my opinion that those dollars or hours are “wasted” is irrelevant.

    And, in fairness, it’s my experience that the LP tends to radicalize people. They come in the front door as “small government conservatives,” “constitutionalists,” etc., and eventually they come out the exit as anarchists, voluntaryists, etc. In my opinion, that’s a valuable function.

  26. Spence

    It’s either that or go back where they came from like Bob Barr and Wayne Root did and like Gary “Fair Tax Guantanamo Private Prisons Republican Zionist” Johnson hopefully and probably soon will. Either direction they go let’s speed everyone on their way to the exits! Kill the LP….burn it down, drown it, hang it by the neck til dead, boil it in oil…just kill it already!

  27. Spence

    Unlike some libertarians I am not completely selfish, so it need not have touched me personally for me to feel sympathy for those who have fallen for its deceptive advances.

  28. Pete Blome

    You can’t have a libertarian article without some troll saying “Give up.”

    Lee Wrights, for all his apparent faults, was not a man to give up. Five times in the fray is not a quitter.

    Learn from it, and do better.

  29. Steve M

    Spence is a republican operative and so of course he wants all libertarian candidates to drop out.

  30. Jed Ziggler Post author

    I think it’s time for a new unofficial rule at IPR:

    Ignore Spence. I will, and I encourage you all to do the same. While he occasionally accidentally makes a good point, he’s here to troll, and it’s best not to feed the troll.

  31. Spence

    Pete …but he DID give up, so it looks like you CAN teach an old dog new tricks. So there’s hope for the rest of you LP addicts. Just follow the twelve steps out of the LP. You can thank me when you do.

  32. Spence

    Steve …we’ve been over this…the LP and the Republicans should dangle from the same rope and all the other parties with them. What part of that are you having so much trouble with?

  33. Spence

    Jed….You can ignore me, like you can ignore your nagging conscience but not forever….because in your heart you know I’m right. Eventually you will realize it but for your sake I hope it will be sooner rather than later. I’ll keep shining the light on the worse than worthless LP no matter how much you try to stay mired in darkness and ignorance.

  34. Fatsax

    Oh spence…I wish I could say I missed you. I wish I could say there was occasion to miss you. What I mean is…go away.

  35. Jill Pyeatt

    I agree with Jed that we need to stop feeding the troll. He hasn’t contributed anything helpful to this blog, and whenever he’s online I have to police his comments to make sure he doesn’t revert to his overly bad ways. I’m tired of him.

    I believe he’s a Republican operative as well. Let him go over to other blogs..

  36. Gene Berkman

    The article “Libertarian Party Moves Away from Freedom” is by Wendy McElroy, who has always opposed electoral politics. Her arguments are tendentious, and based on the notion that even a libertarian who advocates a complete abolition of coercion is actually acting in a coercive manner by running for office.

    Her little clique of Voluntaryists have never come up with a strategy for confronting statism to replace electoral politics. Their views are based on reifeied ideology rather than any kind of analysis of the real world. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

  37. Thomas L. Knapp

    “Her little clique of Voluntaryists have never come up with a strategy for confronting statism to replace electoral politics.”

    Actually they’ve come up with several. Whether or not those strategies are successful is an open question.

    A closed question — with more than 40 years of, without exception, the answer “not even close” — is whether the little clique of LPers has ever come up with a successful strategy for confronting statism THROUGH electoral politics.

  38. Jed Ziggler Post author

    I have no idea if the LP will be successful or not. I do know that I hope they are, and I feel good about voting for them. What you choose to do is your business. I have no problem with people who choose to stay home on election day, it’s far preferable to voting for the same two parties that have been fucking us over for years. I just don’t like Wendy McElroy & The Troll being dickholes about it.

  39. Jill Pyeatt

    Tom, things got so nasty here last summer from not monitoring trolls that we lost a lot of our readers. We also nearly lost a writer or two. The point is to keep the blog informative and interesting, which is why I haven’t deleted Spence’s comments. I certainly don’t see that he contributes anything, though. Obnoxious people do seem to go away if we don’t feed them, I’ve noticed, which is why I agree with Jed.

  40. Jill Pyeatt

    It does get frustrating to see the lack of progress made by the LP, and I’m certain the infighting has a lot to do with it. Since the LP attracts personalities who are more unique than most people, maybe we fight a little more, I don’t know. What I do know is that I don’t think I can ever vote for a Republican again after their display of dishonesty from the 2012 campaign. I don’t think I’d ever get the stink off of me.

  41. Jill Pyeatt

    Wendy McElroy is a facebook friend, and we’ve had some discussions here and there. I think she’s right sometimes, but I sometimes think she’s wrong. I don’t agree with the above article.

  42. Steve M

    no problems at all spence it is very simple math

    what spence wants = what the republicans want = 0 libertarian candidates

  43. Andy

    Jill Pyeatt said: “I believe he’s a Republican operative as well. Let him go over to other blogs..”

    I didn’t know that Tom Knapp was a Republican. My guess would be that Tom is either a guy who is really bored and has a sick sense of humor and trolls for fun, or he’s being paid to do it by some government agency, or perhaps he’s been coerced into being a confidential informant of the provocateur variety (like maybe he was busted for drugs or something, so he became a confidential informant to stay out of prison).

  44. Andy

    I have a few other suspects for being trolls here that may be working with Tom Knapp. All of my main suspects are signed up as IPR writers. Two of them are LP members, the other is a person who I’m not aware of having ever been an LP member.

  45. Andy

    “Nicholas Sarwark January 21, 2014 at 6:42 pm

    ‘Kill the LP….burn it down, drown it, hang it by the neck til dead, boil it in oil…just kill it already!’

    Show me on the doll where the bad LP touched you.”

    LOL!

  46. Jed Ziggler Post author

    “I have a few other suspects for being trolls here that may be working with Tom Knapp. All of my main suspects are signed up as IPR writers. Two of them are LP members, the other is a person who I’m not aware of having ever been an LP member.”

    I can assure you I save all my trolling for homophobes on Twitter. I can tell you that one of the people I think you’re probably suspecting is one that I suspect of being a troll too.

  47. Andy

    “Thomas L. Knapp January 21, 2014 at 6:08 pm
    Spence,

    Sometimes I can see why Andy might mistake you for me.”

    So now Tom is talking to himself to play off my outing him as “Spence,” who has also posted under the name “Randy,” and who is also the person who popped up here for years posting personal attacks and racist material under various names, although I suspect that there may have been other people working with him with some of those posts.

  48. Andy

    Jed Ziggler said: ” I can tell you that one of the people I think you’re probably suspecting is one that I suspect of being a troll too.”

    Care to out this person right now in public? If not, would you prefer to divulge who the person is and why you suspect them of being a troll in an email?

  49. Jed Ziggler Post author

    All I’ll say is that when somebody posts articles here and makes no secret of their hostility toward third parties & candidates, I have to wonder why such a decision was made in the first place.

  50. Thomas L. Knapp

    “So now Tom is talking to himself to play off my outing him as ‘Spence'”

    No, now Tom is talking to Spence because Tom feels like Spence. The fact that you’re a fucking idiot has nothing whatsoever to do with my motivations.

  51. Nicholas Sarwark

    perhaps he’s been coerced into being a confidential informant of the provocateur variety (like maybe he was busted for drugs or something, so he became a confidential informant to stay out of prison).

    As someone who deals with the issue of confidential informants in criminal cases regularly, I assure you that it is beyond absurd to believe that there is a law enforcement agency busting people for drugs that would cut someone a deal for trolling the comment section of a third-party news website. Making wired buys from their dealer, yes. Trolling the internet, no.

  52. Andy

    “Jed Ziggler Post authorJanuary 21, 2014 at 9:34 pm
    All I’ll say is that when somebody posts articles here and makes no secret of their hostility toward third parties & candidates, I have to wonder why such a decision was made in the first place.”

    Are you talking about William Saturn?

  53. Andy

    I just checked out Eric Dondero’s “Libertarian Republican” blog, and I noticed that Dondero uses the word Bloviations as a term for comments, as in the number of comments that an article receives are called Bloviations. Interesting. Also interesting is that Tom Knapp seems to post there a lot.

    “Spence” also likes to bloviate.

    Could Knapp and Dondero have a “Good Cop vs. Bad Cop” scam going on, with Tom Knapp playing the role of the “Good Cop” and Eric Dondero playing the role of the “Bad Cop,” from a libertarian perspective?

    The plot thickens.

  54. Andy

    Who is the person who posts articles here, but who has disdain for minor parties and independent candidates?

  55. Jill Pyeatt

    I believe that the Nazi troll has access to the dashboard for several reasons, including the fact that IPR was completely blocked for me for a few days. I don’t think it is Thomas Knapp, however. As someone observed earlier, he doesn’t have a problem making snarky comments under his own name, plus he’s no longer a member of the LP. Therefore, he doesn’t have to hide behind a fake name.

    I doubt if we’ll ever know. This site has recovered substantially from the major troll attacks that started in April, so I believe that’s saying a lot. We seem to be productive again, and that’s what’s important. I do wish someone could convince New Federated to come back.

  56. Jill Pyeatt

    Wow, Jed, I haven’t considered that person. Would you be talking about someone who doesn’t post articles here much anymore (although many people are in that category)? I can think of only one person who was openly mocking third parties, and he hasn’t been around for the last couple of months.

  57. Jed Ziggler Post author

    That’s exactly who I’m talking about Jill. I know he hasn’t posted comments or articles here in a while, (at least under his own name) but when I think of someone who would troll and has access to the dashboard, that’s the first name that comes to mind.

  58. Jed Ziggler Post author

    “Who is Tom Knapp?”

    Former Libertarian Party & Boston Tea Party candidate who withdrew from electoral politics & frequently posts here.

    Or did you mean that as a parody of Who is John Galt?

  59. Andy

    Jill Pyeatt: “I don’t think it is Thomas Knapp, however. As someone observed earlier, he doesn’t have a problem making snarky comments under his own name, plus he’s no longer a member of the LP. Therefore, he doesn’t have to hide behind a fake name.”

    Tom making snarky comments on his own does not mean that he would not make snarky comments under a fake name, or perhaps even snarkier comments than he makes under his real name under a fake name. Also, the fact that he’s no longer an LP member does not mean that he could not be a troll, and it does not mean that he could not be working as a confidential informant saboteur of the libertarian movement. He already spent his time sabotaging the LP and attaching himself to multiple Libertarian campaigns (none of which ever seemed to get anywhere, coincidence?), so his handlers gave him a new assignment, that is to step outside the LP and try to lure people away from making the organization effective.

    If the government has plants in the Libertarian Party and movement, which I strongly suspect that they do, the plants play different roles. Some of them are in the LP, some of them are in other small “l” libertarian organizations, like Campaign for Liberty, etc…, and some of them pose as non-voting anarchists. Some plants will pose as “reformers” who want to water down the party / movement to make it sound more “mainstream,” while others pose as radicals or more hardcore freedom fighters.

    Where are plants recruited from? I’d take a careful look at anyone who is former military, and also those who attended universities that are top recruiting grounds for the CIA / FBI / NSA.

    Plants could come from other places (like people facing prison time for drugs, etc…), but the two groups above are favorite recruiting grounds for the feds.

  60. Steve M

    Jill: “It does get frustrating to see the lack of progress made by the LP”.

    same world different view points…. i talk to my sons friends and the number of them that think the democan/republicrats are anti-them it is amazing. a lot of kids out there talking up the libertarian party…

    Here in California…. strong democratic state with a seething anti-democratic party youth. immigration, drugs, cops….

    when these younger folks find out about the bills we have left for them to pay….

  61. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt January 21, 2014 at 10:08 pm
    Wow, Jed, I haven’t considered that person. Would you be talking about someone who doesn’t post articles here much anymore (although many people are in that category)? I can think of only one person who was openly mocking third parties, and he hasn’t been around for the last couple of months.”

    I’m thinking of a new suspect now, although this does not mean that Tom is not “Spence,” nor does it not mean that any of my other top suspects are off the hook. One of my top suspects I already publically accused of being a troll months ago, and this person mysteriously stopped posting here shortly after that (at least they stopped posting here under their real name, whether they have continued to post here under a fake name is another question).

    A Freedom of Information Act request needs to be done on the Libertarian Party, and on Independent Political Report as well.

  62. Michael H. Wilson

    Jill wrote;”It does get frustrating to see the lack of progress made by the LP, and I’m certain the infighting has a lot to do with it.”

    Yes for sure. The nit picking on the LNC is a major time burner. The LNC should be leading the way with action on specific issues. But it is not.

  63. Michael H. Wilson

    Well it looks like Andy is playing the troll now. And one of the reasons I stopped commenting here is because of the waste of time spent on sorting the wheat from the chaff.

  64. Andy

    “Jake Porter January 21, 2014 at 10:24 pm
    Jed, Yes. I’ve know Tom for several years. I find this conspiracy to be one of the funniest things I have read in a long time.”

    It could be Jake, so you might be right, but just because you think that it is funny, it does not automatically mean that Tom does not troll here under fake names, and it also does not automatically mean that there is not more to the trolling than just a person doing it for kicks.

    Just because you’ve known Tom for a long time (and the obvious question here is how well do you really know him), it does not mean that he could not be a troll and/or a plant. I’ve posted articles and videos here before where political activists thought that they really knew and could trust somebody, and this person who they thought they knew and could trust ended up being outed as a plant. Do some research on the subject. This is not as crazy as it sounds.

  65. Andy

    “Michael H. Wilson January 21, 2014 at 10:32 pm
    Well it looks like Andy is playing the troll now.”

    I’m not trolling. I’m dead serious.

  66. Jill Pyeatt

    I accused someone earlier in the year of trolling, also, and he stopped posting articles shortly thereafter. There could indeed be more than one person.

  67. Jill Pyeatt

    Steve M said: “same world different view points…. i talk to my sons friends and the number of them that think the democan/republicrats are anti-them it is amazing. a lot of kids out there talking up the libertarian party…

    Here in California…. strong democratic state with a seething anti-democratic party youth. immigration, drugs, cops….

    when these younger folks find out about the bills we have left for them to pay….”

    My youngun at UCLA talked several of his friends into registering Libertarian and voting that way, which is kind of a big deal because these were first-time voters. He’s not even politically active, but he” walks the walk” of a libertarian because that’s how he was raised..

  68. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt January 21, 2014 at 10:45 pm
    I accused someone earlier in the year of trolling, also, and he stopped posting articles shortly thereafter. There could indeed be more than one person.”

    Since we both publically accused the same person here several months ago, we might as well just say the name Brian Holtz.

  69. Thomas L. Knapp

    Once again, I will make this as simple as possible:

    I am not “Spence,” nor do I post here (or anywhere else) under a pseudonym (with the single, satirical exception of Emperor Norton XIII, who is elsewhere publicly identified as me).

    Anyone who says otherwise is either a liar or an idiot.

    Period.

  70. Andy

    “Thomas L. Knapp January 21, 2014 at 11:12 pm
    Once again, I will make this as simple as possible:

    I am not ‘Spence,’ nor do I post here (or anywhere else) under a pseudonym (with the single, satirical exception of Emperor Norton XIII, who is elsewhere publicly identified as me).”

    There are certainly a similarities in the comments are writing style. Coincidence?

    Also, since “Spence” is obviously is trying to keep his identity secret, why would “Spence” deny that he is Tom Knapp? Wouldn’t it be great cover for “Spence” if everyone thought he was Tom Knapp if he was not Tom Knapp? Why would “Spence” care if anyone thought if he was Tom Knapp, unless he is Tom Knapp?

  71. paulie

    Several people. But the troll is not necessarily an IPR writer – I have reasons to believe he is a hacker, so he may have hacked into the dashboard.

  72. Steve M

    I take Tom Knapp at his word… well as I do most people. I also agree that this place is more interesting when you you have vibrant arguments.

    Besides I am pretty sure that Thomas Knapp is no Republican Operative. Spence on the other hand….

  73. Andy

    Is it just a coincidence that “Spence” talked about Claire Wolfe, and Tom Knapp just happens to be all over Claire Wolfe’s blogs? Maybe, or maybe not.

    Is it just a coincidence that “Spence” and Tom Knapp both like to use the word bloviate? Maybe, or maybe not.

  74. Steve M

    all right as an old school code writer (circa 1980)… I do take issue with the new idea that hacker means breaking into other peoples computers.

    to me a hacker is someone who comes up with a cleaver imaginative piece of code or technology that is amusing. A cracker is someone who breaks the security of a computer/network.

    Yes I am pissing into the wind but at least I am educating about the origins of the term hacker.

  75. Steve M

    I have confidence in the desires of humans to live free once they get over their fear of others living free.

  76. paulie

    Andy

    Is it just a coincidence that “Spence” talked about Claire Wolfe, and Tom Knapp just happens to be all over Claire Wolfe’s blogs? Maybe, or maybe not.

    Is it just a coincidence that “Spence” and Tom Knapp both like to use the word bloviate? Maybe, or maybe not.

    There would need to be much better evidence than that.

    Steve M:

    You are correct. I meant cracker. I just didn’t want to come off as racist, so I was perhaps overly niggardly in orienting myself away from the use of that term 🙂

  77. paulie

    I have confidence in the desires of humans to live free once they get over their fear of others living free.

    Sounds so easy when you put it like that. And yet….

  78. Andy

    “Steve M January 21, 2014 at 11:46 pm
    Andy, putting on my tin foil hat how do we know you aren’t a government agent?”

    I don’t think that I fit the profile, but none the less, this is actually a good point. DTA, Don’t Trust Anybody.

  79. Matt Cholko

    Lately, I feel bad after checking out IPR and reading the often ridiculous comments. There certainly is some value here, but I am having more and more trouble seeing it.

  80. Thomas L. Knapp

    Quoth Steve M,

    “Andy, putting on my tin foil hat how do we know you aren’t a government agent?”

    You don’t need to put on a tinfoil hat to suspect that.

    Q: If you wanted to make the libertarian movement look stupid or dishonest, what would be the easiest way?

    A: Associating the as yet completely evidenceless “inside job” claims of the 9/11 “Truth” Movement with the libertarian movement.

    It’s a win/win for anti-libertarians. If nobody challenges you when you make such an association, you make the libertarian movement look like paranoid idiots. If someone does challenge you on the facts and you try to bluff your way over them, you make the libertarian movement look like artless liars.

  81. wolfefan

    Just as an FYI in case anyone thought Andy might be serious about it, you can’t FOIA either the LNC or IPR.

  82. Robert Capozzi

    Andy: I’m not trolling. I’m dead serious.

    me: Right out of the “troll playbook.” Of course a “troll” would say s/he is “serious,” else they’d not be an effective “troll.”

    😉

    It’s the easier thing in the world to accuse someone else of being a troll. Whether it’s true or not, however, requires higher standards of discernment.

    Although I do admit to wondering about the credibility of those who accuse OTHERS of being trolls, for it could be they the troll-accusers are the REAL trolls, fomenting chaos, dissention, and general distrust and lack of sharing of sincere ideas.

    Thankfully, I’m a forgiving sort!…

  83. Andy

    “Robert Capozzi January 22, 2014 at 8:56 am
    ‘Andy: I’m not trolling. I’m dead serious.’

    me: Right out of the ‘troll playbook.’ Of course a ‘troll’ would say s/he is ‘serious,’ else they’d not be an effective ‘troll.'”

    I’d say that your own behavior is a lot more questionable. You claim to be a Libertarian, yet you spend most of your time attacking or questioning other Libertarians, particularly those who are actually working to grow the party and movement, while doing nothing to grow the party or movement yourself. Odd behavior for one who claims to be a Libertarian indeed.

  84. Spence

    Andy is definitely a troll, and may very well be a government plant. It’s highly likely that he is mentally ill or maybe a combination of several or all these things. I have never posted here under any other names, I am not a troll, I am not a Republican, I am not a racist or a nazi or an LP member nor am I signed up to post articles here. Spence is my actual name and anything else about my identity is simply none of your business and just a distraction you are trying to throw up to keep yourselves from facing the reality of how much worse than useless your allegedly libertarian political party is. Try as you might you are not fooling me, yourselves or anyone else. You can try to ignore the truth but you will keep failing. Always.

  85. Spence

    Despite Andy’s paranoid fantasies and laughable “evidence” I am not Thomas Knapp, but Thomas does make a good point with this statement: “A closed question — with more than 40 years of, without exception, the answer “not even close” — is whether the little clique of LPers has ever come up with a successful strategy for confronting statism THROUGH electoral politics.” Andy is still a mentally ill troll who may well be a government stool pigeon, however.

  86. Spence

    Steve you are embarrassing yourself in public again with this illogical fallacy: “what spence wants = what the republicans want = 0 libertarian candidates” I also want zero Republican candidates, zero Democrat candidates and zero candidates of any kind. It appear this is too difficult of a concept for you, but at least some of the people reading are capable of understanding it and you are making yourself look very, very foolish to all of us who do.

  87. Spence

    My guess would be that ANDY is either a guy who is really bored and has a sick sense of humor and trolls for fun, or he’s being paid to do it by some government agency, or perhaps he’s been coerced into being a confidential informant of the provocateur variety (like maybe he was busted for drugs or something, so he became a confidential informant to stay out of prison). See how he tries to take this truth about himself and try to deflect it on others? Anyway back to the subject…the LP is worse than worthless and more of its candidates need to follow Lee Wrights’s lead here and drop out. Encourage them to do so by not donating!

  88. Spence

    Michael H. Wilson ” Well it looks like Andy is playing the troll now.” What do you mean…playing? It wouldn’t exactly be a tough role for him to play, basically playing himself.

  89. Spence

    “There are certainly a similarities in the comments are writing style. Coincidence?”

    More like your imagination. Take your meds, you may feel better.

    “Also, since “Spence” is obviously is trying to keep his identity secret, why would “Spence” deny that he is Tom Knapp? Wouldn’t it be great cover for “Spence” if everyone thought he was Tom Knapp if he was not Tom Knapp? Why would “Spence” care if anyone thought if he was Tom Knapp, unless he is Tom Knapp?”

    The only one who thinks I am Tom Knapp is you, and everyone else is laughing at you, not with you, when you say something that stupid. I deny being Tom Knapp for one simple reason: I am not him and he is not me. But suppose I was him, or whoever it is that you want me to be what would change? Would anything I have told you be any less valid? No. So stop evading the point already…I know you don’t want to face it, but you are going to have to face it whether you like it or not. Your party is worth than useless. Deal with it.

  90. robert capozzi

    a: you spend most of your time attacking or questioning other Libertarians….

    me: “Attacking”? I’m awfully sorry if my enquiries appear to you as “attacks.” It is true that I perceive the LM to be on a ledge, and I’m not surprised, being a Randian/Rothbardian in recovery. A car with an empty gas tank won’t drive, though, and most unfortunately the LM clings to falsehoods that exhaust its resources.

  91. Spence

    Steve “Andy, putting on my tin foil hat how do we know you aren’t a government agent?” Good point, he very well might be. Paulio: “There would need to be much better evidence than that.” That is certainly the polite way to put that. Wolfefan “Just as an FYI in case anyone thought Andy might be serious about it, you can’t FOIA either the LNC or IPR.” He may be serious…seriously in need of medication. Or he may be a plant or a troll or all the above. Anyway back to the subject…the LP is worse than worthless and more of its candidates need to follow Lee Wrights’s lead here and drop out. Encourage them to do so by not donating!

  92. Spence

    Robert “Right out of the “troll playbook.” Of course a “troll” would say s/he is “serious,” else they’d not be an effective “troll.” Yep that sure sounds like Andy! Troll is as troll does. Anyway back to the subject…the LP is worse than worthless and more of its candidates need to follow Lee Wrights’s lead here and drop out. Encourage them to do so by not donating!

  93. Eric Sundwall

    As I’ve outlined to some others, I’m confining my role to the following . . .

    1. Help organize a successful LPNY convention in Albany on April 26th.

    2. Support the LPNY candidate(s) with donations of money and time for ballot access.

    3. Assist the CDLP in coordinating the final LPNY petition submission.

    . . . and I whole-hardheartedly, offer the best wishes to all who chose to engage in the struggle. The electoral reality of third parties in the American System is simply charging windmills.

    Keep charging,

    Eric Sundwall

    In terms of this thread, “confronting statism” does not require victory. Just a pair. Pick your battles.

  94. Andy

    “Spence January 22, 2014 at 2:17 pm
    Despite Andy’s paranoid fantasies and laughable “evidence” I am not Thomas Knapp, but Thomas does make a good point with this statement: “A closed question — with more than 40 years of, without exception, the answer “not even close” — is whether the little clique of LPers has ever come up with a successful strategy for confronting statism THROUGH electoral politics.” Andy is still a mentally ill troll who may well be a government stool pigeon, however.”

    Your use of the term “stool pigeon” is something that was used by the person who posted a lot of racist material and personal attacks. This just ads further fuel to the fire that you are him, and since we all know that “Spence” is a fake name, the fact that you are hiding your identity while at the same time claiming to not be Tom Knapp, just ads more fuel to the fire that you are Tom Knapp.

    Why would a person who is posting under a fake name be concerned with anyone thinking that they are Tom Knapp if they are not Tom Knapp? A real person posting under a fake name that was not Tom Knapp would actually be glad that somebody thinks that they are Tom Knapp because it would be a good way to conceal their real identity. The only way I could see a person posting under a fake name not wanting people to think that they are Tom Knapp would be IF THEY REALLY WERE TOM KNAPP.

  95. Andy

    Robert Capozzi said: “me: ‘Attacking’? I’m awfully sorry if my enquiries appear to you as ‘attacks.'”

    Yes, I’d label it as attacking. You call yourself a Libertarian, but then do nothing to advance the cause of liberty beyond making lots of critical comments about those who are working to advance the cause of liberty.

    This is suspicious, or at best, strange behavior for one who claims to be a Libertarian.

  96. Nicholas Sarwark

    Why would a person who is posting under a fake name be concerned with anyone thinking that they are Tom Knapp if they are not Tom Knapp? A real person posting under a fake name that was not Tom Knapp would actually be glad that somebody thinks that they are Tom Knapp because it would be a good way to conceal their real identity. The only way I could see a person posting under a fake name not wanting people to think that they are Tom Knapp would be IF THEY REALLY WERE TOM KNAPP.

  97. Steve M

    Spence you are putting your effort into discouraging libertarians and not republicans hence you are doing the same work that the republican party is well documented for doing.

  98. William Saturn

    Not to change the subject, but I was looking back at comments and it seems CLC was right about Wrights.

  99. Andy

    “William Saturn January 22, 2014 at 7:41 pm
    Not to change the subject, but I was looking back at comments and it seems CLC was right about Wrights.”

    Who is CLC?

  100. Spence

    Eric

    Sounds like you are starting to realize that the electoral path is the wrong path, a doomed road to nowhere that only leads you further from your goal. In time that realization will grow.

    Andy

    You are grasping at straws. Stool pigeon is a standard phrase, Spence is a real name (and all you need to know) and I’m not anyone else who has posted here – just me – no matter how many times you repeat yourself. You are just focusing on that to fight the same realization that Eric is in the early stages of, from coming to your conscious realization. But it’s rather entertaining to watch the twists of logic you engage in in the fruitless pursuit of trying to keep from acknowledging the reality that I am rubbing your face in.

    Nicholas,

    Rather ignominous death that Andy dies there. Or is the LP dying from its own self-destructive attempt to outgame the big political players? Lee Wrights shows us the way here: don’t play the game, don’t drink from either glass!

    Steve,

    My anti-gang warfare activity is not pro-Crip or pro-Blood activity; I am telling all gangbangers I know, whatever political gang they affiliate with, to disaffiliate from these destructive organizations. It is no different with Republicans, Libertarians, and all other members of political gangs.

  101. Thomas L. Knapp

    There is no “fire” to add “fuel” to. I am not Spence. Spence is not me. Those are the facts.

    The only real takeaway from this teapot tempest obsession of yours is that your curious ideas of what constitutes “evidence” seem to me to shed light on your other ideas regarding other topics.

  102. paulie

    Via LP Radical Caucus facebook…

    Susan Hogarth Very disappointed in Lee’s ungracious exit.

    Susan Hogarth Though, honestly? Not surprised.

    Lynn House I’ve never know him to mince words. What’s surprising to me is that he was the golden boy for many in 2012 and he couldn’t translate the grass root support in to money.

    Vedran Delic Too bad. Lee was one of the great voices of modern libertarianism, its anti-war branch in particular. There is one sentence in his statement worth repeating to all libertarian candidates: ” You can’t run a campaign on promises and likes onFacebook.”

    Susan Hogarth Guilt is a very poor motivator.

    Susan Hogarth What Lee needs to learn is this: You can’t run a campaign on browbeating potential investors.


    Steve Trinward
    Susan: read it again, please. He’s not browbeating anyone, just noting that most people who made promises to help then bailed on him!


    Steve Trinward
    Lynn: he’s still aces in my book, but as he says, a lot of people who said they’d support him then failed when it came time to “cough it up” …

    James William Junior He made his point but then belabored it, belittling people and making him seem bitter. He should have stopped at “You can’t run a campaign on promises and likes on Facebook.” and left it at that. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.

    Susan Hogarth He was unable to translate initial enthusiasm into followthrough. That is the fault of the salesperson or the product, NOT the buyer.

    Steve Trinward one more attempt: consider that what his post said was NOT that he had not been able to attract supporters, and gain pledges from them … but that when it came time to “pony up” most of them had not honored their pledges!

    But since you’re determined to shoot the messenger you don;t give a shit bout the facts.

    Susan Hogarth Steve, I’m not shooting any messengers. I’m not disputing or ignoring facts.

    I’m only saying that it sounded to me like an ungracious exit full of sour grapes.

    Kerry Douglas McKennon I would have loved to see them debate at the State Convention. I have yet to decide whom I am going to support for governor. I am also running and have been told by friends, voters and supporters that they were waiting until after the conventions to give monetary support. So why drop out until then? I have also seen several post of Lee supporters saying they will now vote for Davis…really? I liked what I had heard of Lee a lot. But I didn’t know him. It was only what I had read on-line and heard from supporters. After the convention to have fractions that still fight and to campaign against the said nominee is hurtful to the Libertarian party. I am not saying that you have to go all out for any nominee that do don’t like or disagree with on principle, but publicly stating you will not support them is not in the best interest of the party. As a Libertarian no one is saying vote and openly support the nominee, but saying that you now will vote for Davis is wrong. My opinion and now off my soap box.

    James William Junior I didn’t get the “shoot the messenger” vibe from Susan at all, what I got was, in spite of promises and pledges, he comes off as a whiner at least, ungracious at best. Whether he stuck it out or folded, this could have been handled better, he just damaged his own brand, and with it, the party will suffer, let’s hope not much damage was done. We need all the new recruits and members we can garner. And you need not “cast aspersions” there Steve, you’re starting to sound a little bit like Mr. Wrights himself, little bit. We start arguing amongst ourselves here or anywhere and we end up looking unorganized, very fractious and disunited. Puts us, as a Party, back at the Lyndon Larouche and David Dukes stage, no?

    Susan Hogarth Um, *what* Lyndon Larouche stage, James?

    James William Junior years ago, he was either touted as an LP candidate, most likely by a campaign manager but I’m not sure if it was a Party stalwart or not. Or he was putting himself up as running as a Libertarian.

    If I’m wrong, I’m sorry, just stating that we’ve made incredible progress since then, no need to start shooting ourselves in the foot with bad PR as a result of a folded campaign.

    James William Junior ok, looks like it was the “Liberty Party” that was briefly associated with LaRouche but they very quickly disassociated themselves from him, my bad.

    Marc Montoni Lee’s exit was indeed ungracious.

    Blaming the donor is never good policy. If they weren’t donating, the reasons probably are internal with the campaign, rather than external, with the donors.

    Insufficient fundraising is most often due to insufficient asking.

    What he needed was a campaign manager who is good at raising money. He had a huge amount of good will from his 2012 P effort; he could easily have translated that into a $250 to 500k race.

    I’m not hard to find — had I received a fundraising letter from Lee (at least before this antic), I probably would have coughed up a hundred or so, maybe more — only because I personally was impressed with how well he did on stage against someone who had been coached by a professional.

    Lee’s mistake was not having someone who knew how to “close the sale” following up on new campaign contacts.

    Were I managing a campaign like Lee’s, my first act would have been to rent the national LP database (or perhaps start cheap and just get the last couple of databases of LP convention delegates — those lists are free) and send out a mailing extolling the campaign and seeking buy-in.

    The next thing for him to have done would have been to contact every FB “like” and ask them to provide their full contact info. Not all would supply it, but a percentage would, and those are the people to whom you send a letter asking them to invest. For that matter, **every** LP candidate should be doing that anyway, and passing the contacts along to LPHQ. Some prospects may not be ready to contribute to a campaign, but they might be interested in local LP activities, or investing in a state ballot access drive, or something — and if we enroll them some other way this time, next time some of those *will* be ready to invest in a campaign.

  103. paulie

    Who is CLC?

    The fucktard troll who kept going on and on about “hobos,” chased off many good participants here such as New Federalist, accused me of being the nazi troll (which I suspect was actually himself), said Virginia voters would not suport Sarvis because of his “interracial” marriage, etc. A real piece of garbage.

    Oh yeah, he also had some half baked “theory” about how Newt Gingrich is a “functional libertarian” or some similar nonsense, as well.

  104. paulie

    More of LP rads FB…

    Finnegan TE Lee Wrights has not filed the paperwork with the State of Texas to officially withdraw. Many of us are trying to get him to jump back in.

    It’s just difficult, when many of his supporters are also waging their own campaign battles, to divide their time/money/efforts.

    Susan Hogarth I half hope he does jump back in, but I do have reservations about any effort that the principal needs to be talked into…

    Steve Trinward Two more things and then I gotta go do something constructive:

    1. As anyone who can read would know by now, my point about Lee’s complaints has to do with promises broken, not the inability to rouse up the rabble for a fight (he said specifically that he’d had a number of people pledge and then not come through, NOT that he’d had trouble getting them to say yes in the first place.)

    2. A “principal” who is reluctant to become a public official is a GOOD thing for libertarians; half the problem we have now is that too many “career politicians” are in these seats. Anyone who wants to wield power over others should be declared ineligible for the position.

  105. Andy

    “paulie January 22, 2014 at 8:37 pm
    More of LP rads FB…

    Finnegan TE Lee Wrights has not filed the paperwork with the State of Texas to officially withdraw. Many of us are trying to get him to jump back in.”

    Why? It’s not as though he’s a good candidate or had anything resembling a real campaign. It would be better to find a better candidate.

  106. Andy

    Also, instead of blaming people for not donating to your campaign, how about blaming yourself for running such a crappy, half assed campaign that few people felt inspired to donate to it?

  107. Antirevolutionary

    Andy, you should go to the PLAS Place; I think you would fit in well there.
    Is Kris Lesiak a suspect now? He seemed to be friends with Andy and Jill for a while, but then started insulting third parties and disappeared shortly after.

  108. Andy

    “Antirevolutionary January 22, 2014 at 9:14 pm
    Andy, you should go to the PLAS Place; I think you would fit in well there.”

    What is the PLAS Place?

    “Is Kris Lesiak a suspect now? He seemed to be friends with Andy and Jill for a while, but then started insulting third parties and disappeared shortly after.”

    I doubt that it is him. He’s probably busy with school.

  109. paulie

    Is Kris Lesiak a suspect now? He seemed to be friends with Andy and Jill for a while, but then started insulting third parties and disappeared shortly after.

    He’s probably being held in a secure facility with Nancy Benson and the real William Saturn 🙂

  110. paulie

    Why? It’s not as though he’s a good candidate or had anything resembling a real campaign. It would be better to find a better candidate.

    He is a good writer and a fiery speaker and solid on the issues. He’s also well known from his Presidential run and frequent presence on many Libertarian facebook groups.

  111. paulie

    Also, instead of blaming people for not donating to your campaign, how about blaming yourself for running such a crappy, half assed campaign that few people felt inspired to donate to it?

    I think the biggest factor was lack of fundraising ideas like those Marc mentioned. Pledges are significantly inferior to cash in hand in fundraising terms, as Shane pointed out before this thread turned into another round of the Spence circus.

  112. Andy

    “Thomas L. Knapp January 22, 2014 at 10:04 pm
    ‘before this thread turned into another round of the Andy circus.’

    There, fixed that for ya.”

    What you call a “circus” I call investigating the facts and seeing where they take me, which is back to you. The writing style and comments from “Spence” sound very much like you. Is this a coincidence? Is it a coincidence that “Spence” brought up Claire Wolfe and you just so happen to have multiple posts on Claire Wolfe’s blog? Why is “Spence,” who is trying to keep his/her identity secret, claiming that they are not Tom Knapp? Wouldn’t being mistaken for Tom Knapp be good for “Spence” if “Spence” was not really Tom Knapp?

  113. Andy

    “paulie January 22, 2014 at 9:57 pm

    Why? It’s not as though he’s a good candidate or had anything resembling a real campaign. It would be better to find a better candidate.

    He is a good writer and a fiery speaker and solid on the issues. He’s also well known from his Presidential run and frequent presence on many Libertarian facebook groups.”

    He’s not that well known. I bet that his name recognition is very low, even by Libertarian standards. Also, he’s done little to build the party. His campaign was going nowhere. Ending the campaign was a mercy killing.

    Much better to find a better candidate.

  114. Thomas L. Knapp

    Here’s a bit of starter bait for your next session of “investigating the facts and seeing where they take me”:

    I’ve known Claire Wolfe for years — reviewed one of her early books. Also, my daily newsletter blurbs and promotes her blog. So yeah, I get by there now and again (heck, I think she’s even commented on MY blog once or twice).

    How Spence is familiar with her, I have no idea (among other reasons because I have no fucking idea who Spence is), but it’s not like she’s someone unknown. She’s pretty popular in the libertarian movement.

    You may find Spence’s style similar to mine. I don’t — at least not particularly. Other than, of course, the obvious:

  115. paulie

    He’s not that well known. I bet that his name recognition is very low, even by Libertarian standards.

    I’d say he is a lot better known among LP members and supporters nationally than anyone else likely to seriously consider running for governor of Texas this year,

  116. Robert Capozzi

    A: You call yourself a Libertarian, but then do nothing to advance the cause of liberty beyond making lots of critical comments about those who are working to advance the cause of liberty.

    me: Well, what would do if you saw a person repeatedly put his/her nose to a grindstone? One could walk on by. Or one could bring – with as much compassion as possible – the fact that putting one’s nose to the grindstone is not only unproductive, it’s damaging! I share the latter perspective, and I’m real sorry if you take that personally.

  117. Andy

    “paulie January 22, 2014 at 10:36 pm
    ‘He’s not that well known. I bet that his name recognition is very low, even by Libertarian standards.’

    I’d say he is a lot better known among LP members and supporters nationally than anyone else likely to seriously consider running for governor of Texas this year,”

    Yet his campaign can’t raise hardly any money. This speaks volumes.

  118. Andy

    “Robert Capozzi January 23, 2014 at 12:07 am

    me: Well, what would do if you saw a person repeatedly put his/her nose to a grindstone? One could walk on by. Or one could bring – with as much compassion as possible – the fact that putting one’s nose to the grindstone is not only unproductive, it’s damaging! I share the latter perspective, and I’m real sorry if you take that personally.”

    This is not about whether or not I take anything you say personally. I was pointing out how odd it is for somebody who claims to be a Libertarian do nothing to further the cause of liberty, but then sit back and criticize those who are working to further the cause of liberty. This is all I’ve ever seen from you.

    If you don’t think that Libertarians are doing a good enough job of building a better mouse trap (to use an analogy), instead of sitting back and saying, “Hey, you all are not building a better mouse trap,” let’s see you build a better mouse trap. Show us all how it is done. If you are successful, others will follow your lead.

    It appears to me that you are not very serious about the cause of liberty, which makes me wonder why you are here.

  119. Andy

    Thomas Knapp said: “I’ve known Claire Wolfe for years — reviewed one of her early books. Also, my daily newsletter blurbs and promotes her blog. So yeah, I get by there now and again (heck, I think she’s even commented on MY blog once or twice).

    How Spence is familiar with her, I have no idea (among other reasons because I have no fucking idea who Spence is), but it’s not like she’s someone unknown. She’s pretty popular in the libertarian movement.

    You may find Spence’s style similar to mine. I don’t — at least not particularly. Other than, of course, the obvious:”

    “Spence’s” writing style as well as his content is very similar to yours. We know that somebody or somebodies have been trolling here for years, and that whoever it is obviously closely monitors the site, and has access to the IPR dashboard.

    It also does not make any sense as to why a person who is trying to remain anonymous like “Spence” would deny being you. It would be great for an anonymous troll to have people think that they are somebody that they are not, yet for some bizarre reason “Spence” does not want people to think that he is Tom Knapp. Bizarre behavior for an anonymous troll, unless the troll in question really is Tom Knapp.

    There was also your reaction when I first mentioned that you were “Spence.” You avoided it, like you’d been caught, and needed time to come up with a cover story.

    You being a troll here would certainly explain a lot.

  120. Andy

    We know that somebody has been trolling here for a long time. We know that this person closely monitors the cite, and that this person has access to the IPR dash board. I’ve long suspected that the troll is signed up as a writer at IPR, and is also an LP member, or at least a former LP member.

  121. Robert Capozzi

    andy: This (critiquing NAPsolutism and fringy ideas) is all I’ve ever seen from you.

    me: Well, I was reasonably successful in de-fringing the platform as part of a team that recognized profound dysfunction. Sadly, it was only partially done, and the So”P” stands, untouched.

    andy: It appears to me that you are not very serious about the cause of liberty, which makes me wonder why you are here.

    me: As I am dying, I especially enjoy the conversation and sharing of alternative thought systems and their implications. As previously indicated and (paradoxically) echoed by Alex Jones (whom you seem to admire), the cause of liberty is hurt by NAPsolutism, IMO. It leads to self-marginalization…nose to the grindstone PLUS a self-inflicted hammer to the head!

  122. Robert Capozzi

    more….

    Yes, I take nothing seriously. I’d suggest that that’s anyone’s first mistake. This is Strawberry Fields!

  123. Thomas L. Knapp

    “We know”

    You got a mouse in your pocket or something?

    A lot of the things that you think you “know” appear to be just stuff that you are imagining.

    Like a “chummy” relationship between myself and Eric Dondero. If you could be bothered to check the facts, you’d see that the opposite is true.

    I go over to his blog fairly regularly to point out that he appears to be a DNC operative on a mission to make Republicans look like racist idiots and to get people to confuse Republicans and libertarians.

    He occasionally publishes some of the stuff I write, because the stuff I write is good.

    I occasionally wonder whether you really live in some strange dream world or whether you’re an active, intentional promulgator of lies. But there’s no doubt it’s one or the other.

  124. Nicholas Sarwark

    Well, I was reasonably successful in de-fringing the platform as part of a team that recognized profound dysfunction. Sadly, it was only partially done, and the So”P” stands, untouched.

    I don’t begrudge you (and the rest of the “Reform Caucus”) your success in radically pruning the platform, but I was less than pleased that I haven’t seen more than 10-20% of the people involved in that effort at any subsequent LP convention.

  125. Robert Capozzi

    tk: …[Andy lives] in some strange dream world….

    me: It’s one way of putting it. Given A’s propensity to adopt half-baked conspiracy theories, he has a predisposition to accept (“we know”) scraps of perception as full-blown evidence. There may be a deep-seated paranoia there that’s projected out as intense, stark conspiracies that he shares with others as “fact.”

    Given his consistency of storytelling, he seems quite sincere in his beliefs, although like many paranoids, there seems to be a willingness to lie to maintain the constructed belief system, for the alternative is unbearable for them. So deep is the denial that it’s an open question whether the lies are done consciously or not. Living in a constant state of terror disorients.

    Compassionate firmness seems in order.

  126. Thomas L. Knapp

    Nick,

    In fairness, it’s not that unusual that you’d see a drop-off of the sort you observe:

    1) The LRC made a herculean effort to get people to that convention — and the LRC fell apart about the time the closing gavel came down. Milsted didn’t think it had accomplished its goals and left the convention, the caucus and the party. If I’m not mistaken, Capozzi has health problems and doesn’t normally make it to conventions. So Portland was kind of inherently a one-shot deal for LRC.

    2) Among those who found LRC’s goals persuasive, a high percentage fell into two overlapping camps that tend to flutter away. One camp was the “silver bullet” folks, who give up as soon as they see their One Big Solution, when tried doesn’t solve the problem. The other camp is those who think that the LP has to become “the GOP, only better” in order to succeed, and the LP will never, ever, ever be Republican-like enough for them, so every so often they give up, go over to some “libertarian Republican” group, and perhaps come drifting back later. It’s worth noticing that shortly after Portland, a Republican presidential campaign came along that gave them a good “give up on the LP, go see if the GOP can get the job done” excuse.

    3) Finally,the LRC’s influence was magnified by the fact that they were pretty much the ONLY group making a concerted, organized effort to get people to Portland. It was a low-attendance convention due to its inconvenient/expensive location. Their influence was probably doubled, maybe even tripled, by this fact … which means that the fall-off appeared to be even greater than it probably was.

  127. robert capozzi

    tlk, you’re close to accurate. I don’t know ANYONE who IDed with the Reform Caucus who claimed that defringification would lead to immediate electoral success (“silver bullet”). I didn’t and don’t, and I don’t think Milsted did/does, either. Holtz seemed more interested in defringification as a means to be “of influence” in the public square.

  128. paulie

    “I’d say he is a lot better known among LP members and supporters nationally than anyone else likely to seriously consider running for governor of Texas this year,”

    Yet his campaign can’t raise hardly any money. This speaks volumes.

    Mostly about fundraising acumen. I think that, doing for example what Marc suggested, they could have raised a lot more.

  129. Spence

    Thomas,

    “There is no “fire” to add “fuel” to. I am not Spence. Spence is not me. Those are the facts.

    The only real takeaway from this teapot tempest obsession of yours is that your curious ideas of what constitutes “evidence” seem to me to shed light on your other ideas regarding other topics.”

    True, but why be so polite? Let’s just all agree that Andy is a paranoid, mentally ill troll who may well be a government plant.

  130. Spence

    “He is a good writer and a fiery speaker and solid on the issues. He’s also well known from his Presidential run and frequent presence on many Libertarian facebook groups.”

    Are those supposed to be his big accomplishments in life? If so, no wonder not even LP suckers are dumb enough to give him money.

  131. Spence

    Thomas

    “before this thread turned into another round of the Andy circus.”

    There, fixed that for ya.

    Good fix….I have caused no circus, only commended Wrights on dropping out and suggested all LP candidates everywhere do likewise. Andy with his inept “investigation” has been playing ringleader, and clown all at the same time.

  132. Spence

    Andy the untreated mental patient troll:

    “What you call a “circus” I call investigating the facts and seeing where they take me, which is back to you.”

    Does it bother you at all that nobody agrees with your “analysis” of the “facts” and that even the LP suckers here find your crazy train of non-sequiturs and poorly strung together delusions to be laughable? Such monumental failure would drive any sane man away with deep, everlasting shame.

    “The writing style and comments from “Spence” sound very much like you. Is this a coincidence?”

    No, it’s a delusion (hallucination) on your part. Does anyone else besides crazy Andy think my style sounds like Thomas Knapp’s?

    ” Is it a coincidence that “Spence” brought up Claire Wolfe and you just so happen to have multiple posts on Claire Wolfe’s blog?”

    Yes, it is. It just happened to be a handy list of some other things some of which people here could do for liberty which actually work as opposed to the LP. First thing that popped into my head when someone asked. If I had the article from Wendy McElroy that Tom Blanton posted in front of me at that time, I may have mentioned her list instead.

    ” Why is “Spence,” who is trying to keep his/her identity secret,”

    I’m not trying to keep my identity secret. I’m not interested in telling you anything beyond my first name and getting into ad hominem arguments. I am however interested in keeping my comments separate from other people’s. Therefore, I have repeatedly told you already, I am not anyone else who has posted under any other name here.

    “claiming that they are not Tom Knapp?”

    I am just one man, not a they, and there’s no claim involved; I’m simply not Tom Knapp, or Randy (I still haven’t even seen his comments), or a troll, a nazi, a racist, a Republican, an LP member, an IPR author, a government agent or any of the other things you claim I am. I am just me and my comments stand on their own, period end of story. You are only pursuig these distractions since you don’t want to confront the substance of my comments and because you are a mentally ill paranoid troll and possible government agent yourself.

    ” Wouldn’t being mistaken for Tom Knapp be good for “Spence” if “Spence” was not really Tom Knapp?”

    No. I don’t want to be mistaken for anyone else no matter who they are. This has already been explained to you, yet you keep repeating yourself like a crazy person wandering the streets downtown. Nor do I want ad hominem attacks, or stalkers, or crazy people like you finding out where I live etc., so no, I will not give you anything beyond a first name. I don’t care if you don’t like it. Deal with the substance of what I say. The fact that you can’t and won’t speaks volumes.

  133. Spence

    “His campaign was going nowhere. Ending the campaign was a mercy killing. ”

    This would be true for the whole party as well! It is going nowhere and ending the LP would be a mercy killing. Let’s focus on that instead of Andy’s paranoid “investigations” of his hallucinations.

  134. Spence

    Robert provides a perfect illustration of how I view all of your participation in the counterproductive LP:

    Well, what would do if you saw a person repeatedly put his/her nose to a grindstone? One could walk on by. Or one could bring – with as much compassion as possible – the fact that putting one’s nose to the grindstone is not only unproductive, it’s damaging!

  135. Spence

    All of you who are in the LP are putting your nose to the grindstone and I feel the need to let you know!

  136. Spence

    Andy

    “You being a troll here would certainly explain a lot.”

    Except that you are the troll, not me.

    “We know that somebody has been trolling here for a long time. We know that this person closely monitors the cite…. and is also an LP member, or at least a former LP member.”

    Yep, sounds like Andy. I guess that proves Andy is the troll. As for me none of those pertain to me so I am not your troll. But maybe Andy is.

  137. Spence

    Robert

    “As I am dying,”

    My condolences.

    “nose to the grindstone PLUS a self-inflicted hammer to the head!” Perfect description of both Andy and the LP.

  138. Spence

    Thomas to Andy:

    “I occasionally wonder whether you really live in some strange dream world or whether you’re an active, intentional promulgator of lies. But there’s no doubt it’s one or the other.”

    I highly suspect it is both.

    Robert:

    “Given A’s propensity to adopt half-baked conspiracy theories, he has a predisposition to accept (“we know”) scraps of perception as full-blown evidence. There may be a deep-seated paranoia there that’s projected out as intense, stark conspiracies that he shares with others as “fact.”

    Given his consistency of storytelling, he seems quite sincere in his beliefs, although like many paranoids, there seems to be a willingness to lie to maintain the constructed belief system, for the alternative is unbearable for them. So deep is the denial that it’s an open question whether the lies are done consciously or not. Living in a constant state of terror disorients.

    Compassionate firmness seems in order.”

    Very perceptive and accurate diagnosis of Andy. And, while I am at it, of the LP as a whole!

  139. Spence

    Anyway back to the subject…the LP is worse than worthless and more of its candidates need to follow Lee Wrights’s lead here and drop out. Encourage them to do so by not donating!

  140. Tom Blanton

    The idea that Republicans posing as libertarians come to IPR to troll is pretty funny when you consider that the LP actively tries to recruit Republicans and when they come to the LP posing as libertarians, the LP runs them as candidates for President, Vice-President and Congress. There was one guy that argued that Glenn Beck is a libertarian based on the guy taking a version of the World’s Smallest Political Quiz for Beck and having Beck come out in the libertarian quadrant.

    I would suggest that if you can’t understand why many libertarians have little to do with the LP, you need to step back and long look at what has happened since the time, many years ago, when the purpose of the LP running candidates was not to win but to advance libertarianism. For years, the message has been watered down in an attempt to meet voters (conservative voters, generally) half-way with what they already believe as a strategy to win elections. It didn’t work. But worse, the message was lost.

    Now, the LP suffers from significant turnover as Tea Party types come and go, while the LP has lost many hardcore libertarians, most anarchists – even real minarchists are in short supply. As the state take leaps toward totalitarianism, it is met with calls for baby-steps in the “right direction”. Once the small government conservatives figure out that all the puffery about winning elections is nonsense, they go back to the GOP. The left thinks the Koch brothers are libertarians thanks to the statist media and the fact that so many “libertarians” are happy to take Koch money.Many “libertarians” announce they are “true conservatives” and are so desperate for attention they will appear on any right-wing talk show regardless of how vile and authoritarian the host may be.

    It’s all like a bizarre joke, but the government that we live under ain’t joking. Resisting it ain’t no joke either. Voting for people who can’t win while strutting around talking about “doing real politics” isn’t doing much for freedom. If you want freedom, simply live free and urge others to do so.

  141. Jake Porter

    Typing error in the last post. One of the issues with the Chromebook.

    Going back to the original subject of this article, I understand the frustration, but I would like to think we could say it in a better way and find better methods to getting those donations.

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