IPR’s Visitor Vernon Starts His Own Blog

troll doll

Vernon, AKA Randy and a few other monikers, is tired of IPR not being run his way, so he’s started a new blog, promising the demise of IPR.

www.88fourteen.wordpress.com

This is in addition to Concerned Libertarian Citizen’s (or Nathan Norman, or whatever other names he used) blog:

www.functionalfillmorefrugal.wordpress.com

IPR wants to be fair and allow our readers new opportunities to learn about third parties and independents.

58 thoughts on “IPR’s Visitor Vernon Starts His Own Blog

  1. Andy

    How about a new rule around here? Either post under a real name that can be verified as being real, or have your posts taken down?

    Let’s put an end to the cowards who post a lot of trash and then hide behind fake names and IP anonymizers.

  2. paulie

    How about a new rule around here? Either post under a real name that can be verified as being real, or have your posts taken down?

    IMO that would extend too far to include people like langa, New Federalist and many others that want to maintain privacy for reasons having to do with their job, not wanting to pop up in search engines under their real name, and so on. I myself did not use my real last name for a number of years in internet posts due to harassment and death threats from various wackos I have tangled with on the internet over the years and a number of other concerns.

    However, I am starting to lean towards banning the IPs associated with IP anonymizers that the troll has been using (lately just anonymouse). I checked those IPs and only one legitimate user has been using that same service even fairly recently. I’m not sure if that will work, since there are a lot of different IP anonymizers out there and the troll can just switch the IP anonymizer service, screen name, fake email address or whatever we add to the blacklist. But it is probably worth a try at this point.

  3. NewFederalist

    Andy would you pull down my posts? I don’t use an IP anonymizer but I do post under a pseudonym.

  4. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I also don’t think we need a rule that people need to use their real names. I believe some sites allow posts to be made under a different name after they’ve signed up and revealed their name, but I don’t even think that’s necessary.

    The only posts I delete anymore are posts that are deliberately racist and/or focussing on slandering someone else, which has only been Vernon lately. I really don’t know if banning IPs would help.

  5. Stewart Flood

    When the “trolls” start doing things we tend to forget for a moment that there are a few people here that are consistent and “non-trollish” but use fake names to protect their online identity.

    I can certainly understand why they do it. I gave up trying to be a “non-entity” online quite a number of years ago. I’ve been on the Internet for twenty-five years plus, so trying to hide yourself is something I no longer think about.

    That said, I looked at the first of the new sites a few weeks ago when it was first mentioned on IPR. Junk. Complete trash.

  6. Stewart Flood

    Sorry…small math error there. Spring of 1990, so twenty-four years plus…and counting!

  7. paulie

    That said, I looked at the first of the new sites a few weeks ago when it was first mentioned on IPR. Junk. Complete trash.

    Yep, and the newest one is pretty much the same as that one, plus racism.

  8. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt Post authorSeptember 3, 2014 at 2:59 pm
    I also don’t think we need a rule that people need to use their real names.”

    Why not? Either say what you have to say under a real name that can be verified as being real, or get the hell out of here.

  9. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I think Paulie explained very well why some people don’t use their real name. There are quite legitimate reasons some people remain anonymous.

  10. Stewart Flood

    Plus racism? Wow! I bet they’ll draw a huge following. At least five or maybe even six visitors a week!

  11. Deran

    Nathan Norman is hilarious. For five minutes. I love the emphasis on family friendly and work safe and a couple posts up he goes on in detail abt sexual content. Nathan and his longtime friend Mr. Areola!

    Vernon is just the same old dreariness. It is interesting though that he spends so much time trying to make the Pauls seem like they are actively involved in the neonazi movement. He plays it as if it is meant to make the Pauls more appealing to more people, but in reality I wonder if he isn’t trying to smear the Pauls?

  12. Andy

    Deran said: “Vernon is just the same old dreariness. It is interesting though that he spends so much time trying to make the Pauls seem like they are actively involved in the neonazi movement. He plays it as if it is meant to make the Pauls more appealing to more people, but in reality I wonder if he isn’t trying to smear the Pauls?”

    This is just another one of “Vernon’s” tactics to smear the Libertarian Party and greater libertarian movement in this country. “Vernon” makes a bunch of racist posts, and then tries to tie libertarians in with it, as a way to make it look like libertarians are racist, so it will scare a lot of people away from the libertarian movement in this country.

    It seems obvious to me that “Vernon” is a paid government troll.

    Enact a new rule here that all posts which are posted under a fake name are automatically taken down, and I bet that “Vernon” will disappear.

  13. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I very seriously doubt we’ll demand everyone use their real names, Andy. I am against it, and so is Paulie. Besides. all Vernon would have to do is make up a name. How would we know it wasn’t real? I think we have the troll thing under control. If the comment is to slander specific people, or is racist just for the sake of being racist, I delete them. Paulie probably has similar criteria.

  14. langa

    I’ve got a better idea: How about if you start banning anyone who makes long, rambling comments that require scrolling two or three times just to get past them?

  15. paulie

    Is Paul Frankel the same person as Paulie Cannoli?

    Yes.

    I haven’t used the cannoli nickname in years, except on facebook, which apparently won’t let me change it. I was surprised to find that a lot of people did not get it and actually thought it was a real name. For a number of years I just used a first name only here and most places online (Paulie) but after accepting an interim appointment as an alternate on the LNC it became more or less impossible to keep my real last name off stuff so I quit trying. So far, my paranoia about various people who have issued threats against me using my comments here to find me has not been borne out, so it hasn’t been a big deal. But I do still understand why some people prefer to use a pseudonym. If you are trying to get a job or a date/relationship nowadays a lot of people will look you up online, among other things.

  16. Andy

    ” Jill Pyeatt Post authorSeptember 4, 2014 at 3:31 am

    I very seriously doubt we’ll demand everyone use their real names, Andy. I am against it, and so is Paulie. Besides. all Vernon would have to do is make up a name. How would we know it wasn’t real?”

    Why be against it? People who post here under fake names do not really need to post here. They could still read the site.

    Yes, “Vernon” could make up another name, but he’d have to prove that he/she is a real person before he/she could post. There are several ways they could prove that he/she could prove themselves as a real person, and a lot of us who post here have already proven that we are real people.

    What is the big loss if they do not prove that they are a real person? They can not post here. So what? The majority of the BS posts around here come from people who post under fake names.

    I think at the very least that people who post inflammatory comments under fake names ought to have their posts taken down. If one wants to post inflammatory comments, then have the balls to do it under your real name, a real name which must be verified as being real for the post to stay up.

  17. paulie

    We generally do take down those types of comments unless someone responds to them before we get to them. Then when we do take them down someone else complains about us being too heavy handed. It gets tiresome and saps our enthusiasm for doing unpaid work here.

    I believe the consensus, which I agree with, is that banning people like langa and New Federalist (and me in the years I did not want my real name associated with my online persona) would be going too far, and we have no plans to do so.

    At this point I am not necessarily against banning the IPs associated with the most egregious comments, but I am not sure it would do any good (the troll would just keep switching to different IP anonymizers and I would have to bother Warren about it every time) and their frequency has been managable enough to where it hasn’t been a huge deal to take them down after they get posted.

  18. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Andy, I think you’re the only one who wants people to use their real names. In the category of “picking your battles”, I suggest not spending too much energy on ths one.

  19. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt Post authorSeptember 4, 2014 at 11:44 am

    Andy, I think you’re the only one who wants people to use their real names. In the category of ‘picking your battles’, I suggest not spending too much energy on ths one.”

    People posting under their real names means that people have to take personal responsibility for what they say. This is a good thing.

  20. paulie

    I’ve got a better idea: How about if you start banning anyone who makes long, rambling comments that require scrolling two or three times just to get past them?

    I’m probably guilty of a few of those myself, too 🙂

  21. Vernon

    Oddly enough for someone so obsessed with real names Andy Jacobs posts under just his first name. You might say that he makes no effort to conceal his last name, but then he doesn’t proactively slap it on his comments either. And how exactly does Andy think he knows that Vernon is not actually my name? Incidentally, while I have posted at IPR under a variety of nomes de plume, Randy was never one of them. Jill makes this editorial claim in the article above with zero evidence, and while she removed the editorial “troll” from the article title (you can still see it in the URL) she left the troll picture up as part of her post.

    I guess Andy isn’t a big fan of V for Vendetta, Mark Twain or the American Revolutionaries, among many others who have historically used anonymity to make political points….

    “From the late-18th to early-19th centuries, it was established practice for political articles to be signed with pseudonyms. A well-known American was the pen name “Publius”, used by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay, in writing The Federalist Papers. In his youth, Benjamin Franklin wrote a number of letters to his brother’s newspaper posing as a widow under the pen name Silence Dogood. The British political writer “Junius” was never identified.”

    Revolutionaries throughout history used pseudonyms.

    Here are some “cowards” from the American Constitutional debates:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pseudonyms_used_in_the_American_constitutional_debates

    Good thing that Andy wasn’t around back then, or in Roman times when Cato wrote his letters. The Jewish Bolshevik commissars in the USSR would have loved Andy, because it’s so much easier to round up the goyim for criticizing the zionist occupational government when you know who they are and where they live. And it certainly makes things easier for spammers, identity thieves, and other criminals; not that I am accusing anyone here, of course (you can read my blog if you want more information on that).

  22. NewFederalist

    “Jill Pyeatt Post authorSeptember 4, 2014 at 11:44 am

    Andy, I think you’re the only one who wants people to use their real names. In the category of ‘picking your battles’, I suggest not spending too much energy on ths one.”

    People posting under their real names means that people have to take personal responsibility for what they say. This is a good thing.

    Two things… why do you not post your last name, Andy? As a libertarian do you not value privacy? If I posted under my real name almost nobody would know who I am and even fewer would care. Should I expose myself to potential identity theft for that? Those are my reasons for using a pseudonym.

  23. Another fake name

    Hey Andy look at me. I am posting under fake name. Maybe you should expel me from the Libertarian Zone or put me on the train to Aushwitz. Lol

  24. Stewart Flood

    The purpose of this site is (or should be) to post political news not specifically promoting the two dominant parties. I understand why some people do not want to expose themselves to potential enemies (such as the state) for expressing political views. Most people would agree that there is usually nothing wrong with posting comments using a fake name.

    The objection comes when someone hides behind a fake name to attack someone else. When the comments are simply attacks against others posting here then the cloak of anonymity becomes a cloak of cowardice.

  25. Andy

    Stewart Flood said: “The objection comes when someone hides behind a fake name to attack someone else. When the comments are simply attacks against others posting here then the cloak of anonymity becomes a cloak of cowardice.”

    BINGO! In addition to this, it is also a way to avoid taking any responsibility for what one says.

  26. paulie

    Yep. Those comments should be removed, which we usually do. Sometimes we make exceptions if someone answers them first and sometimes we get tired of playing playground monitor or taking crap for it from other people here who want totally uncensored comments.

  27. Andy

    People should take responsibility for what they say. I think that if there was a requirement that the only posts allowed would be from people who post under a real, verifiable name, it would eliminate the majority of the bullshit posts around here.

  28. Andy

    “Another fake name
    September 6, 2014 at 2:28 am
    But 95% of the bullshit emanates from you.”

    So says the coward who posted this while hiding under a fake name.

  29. Andy

    The solution which I have proposed would solve the problem permanently, that is only allowing posts from people who post under real, verifiable names.

  30. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Andy, we’ve explained that there are valid reasons people may post under something besides their real name, and the writers here choose to respect that. Please stop talking about us doing forcing people to use their real names. Instead, just ignore the trolls. If we catch the comments before someone responds, we’ll remove them.

    You’re giving them power by responding, which is what they want you to do.

  31. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt Post authorSeptember 6, 2014 at 11:31 am
    Andy, we’ve explained that there are valid reasons people may post under something besides their real name, and the writers here choose to respect that. Please stop talking about us doing forcing people to use their real names.”

    My proposal does not force anyone to do anything. Posting here is a voluntary activity. Nobody needs to post here. People post here for fun, and/or because they want to discuss politics with other people from a minor party or independent candidate perspective. There would be no real damages incurred by an individual if said individual was unwilling to post here due to not wanting to post under a real, verifiable name. They could always post on some other blog/message board.

    People who want to post things attacking people here could still do so, but they would have to do it under their real names, which would mean that they would have to assume some responsibility for what they say.

    “Instead, just ignore the trolls. If we catch the comments before someone responds, we’ll remove them.”

    This is easier said than done, particularly when the trolls are trying to sabotage people from working (based on outright lies, twisted/exaggerated/embellished accounts of things that happened, and guilt-by-association (even if the association is loose) smears).

    It is clearly apparent that “Vernon” is trying to sabotage the very small handful of actual Libertarians who do, or have done, a lot of of petitioning work, and who have posted comments online. There are lots of people that “Vernon” could go after in the petition business, lots of whom have plenty of “juicy” stories surrounding them (some would not even need embellishment), yet “Vernon” (or whatever other fake names he/she has used over the years) only targets those who have a record as Libertarian Party members. I do not believe that this is just a coincidence.

    It is also rather strange that this troll would post lots of racist material, and then try to tie Libertarians, both big “L” and small “l” in with it. It is also rather strange how an individual which claims to be a Neo-Nazi would even care who is working on petitions for the Libertarian Party, or anyone else for that matter, unless it was a petition for some kind of Neo-Nazi cause.

    The evidence all points to the troll attacks here being part of some kind of sabotage operation against the Libertarian Party / movement. I think that requiring people who post here to post under a real, verifiable name would put an end to this.

    If somebody here wants to post under a fake name, and they are not engaging in personal attacks, perhaps they could send their comments to an IPR writer, and the IPR writer could post them if they believe that the comments are worthy of posting, and the IPR comments could post a comment that says that the poster is posting under a fake name for whatever the reason that the person posting under the fake name provides.

  32. paulie

    The solution which I have proposed would solve the problem permanently, that is only allowing posts from people who post under real, verifiable names.

    That’s going too far for reasons we have stated. Repeating yourself does not strengthen your point. The consensus is that what you propose would be excessive and would also end up banning legitimate commenters such as langa, New Federalist and so on.

    I also happen to remember a time when you were not very interested in having your last name mentioned here, and there was certainly quite a while when I did not want mine mentioned.

    “Another fake name” is CLC/Nathan Norman/Marlon Areola. It may also be the same person as the nazi troll, I suspect they may be the same troll but they may be two different ones.

    I suggest you not respond to them and if there are no responses by the time I see a comment from this person or persons I will take them down and Jill will do the same.

  33. paulie

    If somebody here wants to post under a fake name, and they are not engaging in personal attacks, perhaps they could send their comments to an IPR writer, and the IPR writer could post them if they believe that the comments are worthy of posting, and the IPR comments could post a comment that says that the poster is posting under a fake name for whatever the reason that the person posting under the fake name provides.

    LOL. Not gonna happen. If I was still trying to keep my real last name out of search engines I would not participate in a conversation where I had to email every comment to an editor to be approved, and as an IPR editor I will not sit here and repost every single comment from langa, NF, etc even if they did wish to subject themselves to such a procedure. I don’t know anyone who would want to be on either side of such a procedure.

    Your proposal has been considered and rejected so please move on.

    We will delete troll comments, especially when no one answers them by the time we see them.

  34. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I would also point out that someone would have to verify the names under your plan, Andy, and I, for one, wouldn’t want to do that. I’d be surprised if Warren would want to do it.

    I realize this is more personal to you Andy, because you are one of the targeted individuals, but the best thing to do with obnoxious characters like Vernon, in my opinion, is to ignore them. That drives them crazy.

  35. Andy

    It has never been a secret here as to who I am. I have shown up in person to multiple Libertarian Party meetings over the years, as well as to other political events. There are and have been multiple people who post here who have either met me in person, or seen me in person over the years.

    If I make a negative comment about somebody, I back it up with actual facts, and I do it under my real identity.

  36. paulie

    I would also point out that someone would have to verify the names under your plan, Andy, and I, for one, wouldn’t want to do that. I’d be surprised if Warren would want to do it.

    I wouldn’t for sure.

    I realize this is more personal to you Andy, because you are one of the targeted individuals,

    So am I and I don’t like it either. Actually so is Jill because the troll is now posting negative and low class atacks on her.

    but the best thing to do with obnoxious characters like Vernon, in my opinion, is to ignore them. That drives them crazy.

    Yep. And really this thread should die, or even be closed to further comment. Enough is enough already.

  37. paulie

    Vern is not welcome here, he can stick to his own blog (which probably no or very few people look at) and bitch to himself (and maybe one or two people if that) who are there about how the mean non-racists at IPR are censoring his bullshit, trolling and slander.

    Yes, I did take down some of his comments here and yes, Jill did too, and yes, we will keep doing that if he posts again. So fuck off Vern.

  38. NewFederalist

    Since Andy has such an issue with pseudonyms I want to announce my real name is… ah… well… er… I am so old I think I forgot!

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