Robert Burke, 2014 Libertarian Candidate for WI Governor, Calls for ET/UFO Disclosure

Robert Burke

Robert Burke, “author, Executive Director, and 2014 candidate for Governor of Wisconsin” (18,345 votes (0.8 percent)), yesterday evening, 7 January 2015, appeared as a guest on The Rundown Live, (an Alternative Talk Radio Station, based in Milwaukee Wisconsin and KGUD-FM in Denver) and called for US Government ET/UFO Disclosure.

He writes:

“I ran for Governor in WI as the Libertarian in 2014 and a local show was always generous to have me on. . . . the topic is the Petition and Disclosure.”

In an earlier Tweet, Robert requested that his followers support the latest White House Petition on Disclosure.

“RobertBurke@BurkeWIGo support congressional hearings for government/agency/political witnesses to extraterrestrial related events-evidence”

and posted the following on his Facebook Page

“Will you sign the petition?

“The Paradigm Research Group held a Citizen’s Hearing on Disclosure 4/29-5/4 2013 with 6 former members of Congress, 3 Democrat and 3 Republican, 3 women and 3 men, 5 Congressman and 1 Senator, 2 of which had just left office in January 2013. They heard over 30 hours of testimony from over 40 witnesses. . . .

“will you support actual Congressional Hearings by signing the petition at Whitehouse.gov

“We petition the Obama administration to:

“support congressional hearings for government/agency/political witnesses to extraterrestrial related events and evidence”

The “one Senator” mentioned above is Mike Gravel. Senator Gravel unsuccessfully sought the Democratic and then Libertarian POTUS nominations in 2008, was identified as a Libertarian during the Citizen Hearing on Disclosure, and most recently joined Governor Gary Johnson’s Cannabis Sativa, Inc. as CEO of its subsidiary, KUSH.  See: Mike Gravel to Helm Pot Products Company. Senator Gravel chaired day three of the Citizen Hearing on Disclosure, which, among other witnesses, included those related to Roswell. See: Out there: Former Sen. Mike Gravel says White House suppressing evidence of ETs.

The entire interview is available on Youtube HERE

(NOTE: Joseph Buchman served as the moderator for the 2103 Citizen Hearing on Disclosure.)

130 thoughts on “Robert Burke, 2014 Libertarian Candidate for WI Governor, Calls for ET/UFO Disclosure

  1. Jill Pyeatt

    Well, this is interesting! Keep us posted of there’s anymore conversation about this topic, Joe!

  2. Joe

    The white house had to respond to the first petition a couple of years ago (when the hurdle was only 5,000 signatures — now it is 100,000). If PRG can generate 100,000 sigs on this issue (very doubtful) then they would have to respond again (a long-shot at best). That said, the general call for open Congressional Hearings, whistle blower protection and oversight of waste, fraud, criminal activity by the feds (all the way “out” to UFOs (releasing any military contractors from any secrecy oaths they have on this issue)) is something worthwhile, IMO.

    In 2011 the white house wrote (through its OSTP)

    “Thank you for signing the petition asking the Obama Administration to acknowledge an extraterrestrial presence here on Earth. The U.S. government has no evidence that any life exists outside our planet, or that an extraterrestrial presence has contacted or engaged any member of the human race. In addition, there is no credible information to suggest that any evidence is being hidden from the public’s eye.”

    See:
    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/searching-et-no-evidence-yet

  3. Martin Passoli

    They ignore petitions that meet their signature threshold when they feel like it. They’ve done it before.

  4. Jill Pyeatt

    The same thing happened with the petition demanding an investigation of Tower 7 from 9/11. They just pretended there weren’t enough signatures. Sickening.

  5. Waldo TerraFirma

    9/11 was an outside job…way, way, way outside. Space aliens did it.

    What happened was that they bought some black market weed but it was laced with PCP. They crashed the saucers into the twin towers and the Pentagram. Then the White House had to invent the story about the crazy Muslims to avoid an interplanetary war that we would lose badly.

    So now you know why they are ignoring your petitions. Time to move on folks, nothing to see here!

  6. Andy Craig

    *sigh*

    “Explaining to conspiracy theorists that their ideas are unpopular or politically harmful is worse than irrelevant—it’s what drives them. They know the Truth™, and everyone else, even libertarians who disagree, are sheep. If other people don’t see the Truth™, it’s because they’re too dumb recognize it or possibly “in on it.” They expect to be unpopular, and they’ve constructed a self-reinforcing narrative to explain why their ideas are toxic.

    Instead of trying to silence or ignore the crazies in our midst, we ought to confront them and expose the lunatic fringe for what they really are: peddlers of fear, falsehood, and paranoia, just like the politicians they claim to oppose. We cannot sit passively next to the people in tinfoil hats screaming about chemtrails and FEMA camps and still expect to be listened to when we try to speak about our real concerns on foreign policy or personal liberty.”

    http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2012/06/29/why-we-oppose-conspiracy-theories/

  7. Andy

    “Waldo TerraFirma

    January 8, 2015 at 8:59 pm

    9/11 was an outside job…way, way, way outside. Space aliens did it.”

    It looks like “Vernon” is back, with a new fake name, and a new disinfo angle.

  8. paulie

    Vermin Vern’s 9/11 theory as posted on his hate blog, as you might expect, is that it was Jews/Israel. In case anyone cares, although I hope nobody does.

  9. Jill Pyeatt

    Andy Craig, what if you’re wrong, and some of those “conspiracy theories” are right? You seem to be awfully sure of yourself.

  10. Martin Passoli

    WTF @ 8:59

    But according to David Icke, the US government is headed by Space Aliens, so your “hypothesis” is consistent with “inside job” 🙂

    [Icke probably thinks the Israeli government is run by shape shifting space alien lizards as well, so WTF and Vernon don’t necessarily disagree either…]

  11. Andy

    Paul said: “I think WTF is more of a humor post, as opposed to a malicious one like vermin Vern’s.”

    I would not be surprised if it was from “Vernon” or some other paid government internet troll.

  12. Jill Pyeatt

    It totally blows my mind that otherwise intelligent, clear-thinking people automatically write off the possibility that any “conspiracy theory” might be true. With a government that we know lied to us about WMD in Iraq as a pretext to war, plus proven false-flags that have happened in this country within the last hundred years (such as the Gulf of Tonkin), why do they give Obama and Dubya a free pass? Without exception, everyone I know who has spent three or four hours researching what happened on 9/11 agrees there are some huge gaps in the story, plus lots of unanswered questions. Fully a third of Americans agree with that, along with a huge majority in parts of Europe and parts of the Middle East. I’m actually embarrassed for people who pull out the absurd “tin-foil hat” stupidness, because I know then they have no clue what they’re talking about.

  13. Andy Craig

    @Jill Pyeatt

    The day the government reveals they’ve secretly known about aliens visiting earth for the past few decades, is the day I will gladly eat my words.

    Until then, I will simply note that Robert had explicitly promised many of us in the party that we wouldn’t be seeing exactly the sort of headline that is on this post, including myself (58,996 votes 2.5%).

    The “hearing” he’s talking about paid each of their ex-congressman $20,000 to participate. Which tells me nothing more than the going rate for a week’s worth of an ex-congressman’s time and credibility.

  14. Jill Pyeatt

    UFOs and aliens aren’t an issue I know anything about, actually, but I know Joe Buchmann and know he’s a highly intelligent man, so I’ll keep an open mind about them. I also have a genius-level brother who also takes the reports of sightings seriously. The only two “conspiracy theories” I’ve spent time researching are 9/11 and Sandy Hook. It’s astonishing what bizarre things went on regarding both episodes.

    Here’s an article I found just now on Facebook about this topic

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/01/first-question-ask-terror-attack-false-flag.html

  15. Andy Craig

    Just because the government is bad, doesn’t mean any ridiculous nonsense story somebody makes up with the government in the role of bad guy is true. Or entitled to credibility.

    If you haven’t read any of the many thorough debunkings of 9/11 CTs, it’s not because they’re not out there. Ditto for chemtrails, or whatever else. But CTs are so far down the confirmation bias rabbithole, none of that matters.

    Promoting CTs does exactly nothing to further the goal of limiting government and promoting individual liberty. It has nothing to do with the mission or message of the Libertarian Party. What it does do, is actively harm any effort to make the LP into a vehicle for doing those things.

  16. Jill Pyeatt

    “Promoting CTs does exactly nothing to further the goal of limiting government and promoting individual liberty. It has nothing to do with the mission or message of the Libertarian Party. What it does do, is actively harm any effort to make the LP into a vehicle for doing those things.”

    I disagree with this. There’s no way people can understand the depths of destruction and madness of our government unless they understand the reasons why we went to war and stay at war. Not all people can handle this information, but it’s a road for many people to finally give up on the establishment parties who do nothing about it, and look for other people willing to address the real issues.,

    Of course I keep up with debunking sites. Metabunk’s section on Sandy Hook is hilarious. They’re so busy congratulating each other about how smart they are that they fail to realize they really haven’t answered the huige questions (such as where the other kids in the school were). The 9/11 sites are years behind, because new facts and evidence come out all the time.

    Of course many of the conspiracy theories are ridiculous, such as people turning into reptilians. but I think the Libertarian Party would benefit greatly by being open to what people have learned about some of these episodes.

  17. Andy Craig

    Sandy Hook? Really? You try running for office on the platform of “Sandy Hook was a hoax, 9/11 was an inside job, aliens are real, chemtrails are poisoning us, the moon landing was faked, and JFK was killed by the Illuminati” and get back to us on how that goes. Just please don’t do it as a Libertarian, because none of those things have anything to do with libertarianism.

  18. Andy Craig

    Even if, for argument’s sake, some popular conspiracy theory was true (take your pick), is it really worth sacrificing our credibility and legitimacy on every other important issue? Because that’s what the choice comes down to: once your known as a CT candidate, or even worse a CT party, that is all you’ll be known for.

    And, just to be clear where my loyalties are: I drafted and submitted the legal complaint about Robert’s exclusion from the televised debates. I didn’t do that so he could could stand on stage with Scott Walker and Mary Burke and tell the voters of Wisconsin the truth about alien abductions. I did it so the voters of Wisconsin could hear a libertarian perspective on the important issues at stake in the governor’s election.

  19. Jill Pyeatt

    I’ve run for office twice, and done well both times, thank you. Of course none of those issues were prominent. I know nothing about the last 4 things you mentioned, and you are doing a disservice by thinking that if an individual questions one or two events, their life revolves around conspiracy theories. Most Libertarians I know are willing to address and discuss anomolies without lumping everyone into a category of wild-eyed loonies. Luckily, many of the people in our country are beginning to learn about these things..Truly, in my group I’m shocked if I meet someone who really believes the silly government story of 9/11. I believe the families of the victims deserve to have their questions answered.

    I’m off to bed, though. Good night.

  20. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt

    January 9, 2015 at 3:46 am

    It totally blows my mind that otherwise intelligent, clear-thinking people automatically write off the possibility that any ‘conspiracy theory’ might be true”

    Jill hit the nail on the head.

    Conspiracies are two or more people planning to commit a crime. Governments by their vary nature engage in conspiracies on a regular basis, some big, and some small.

    Conspiracy theories are simply people investigating, or speculating, about what really happened in an event, where all of the facts are not known, or where there is an official story that some people do not believe.

    Does this mean that every conspiracy theory is true? No. Some are true, and some are not true, or some are generally true, but maybe they are missing a few details.

    I got involved in the Libertarian Party back in 1996, but I had already figured out that government officials routinely lie and engage in criminal acts before this. I started researching so called “conspiracy theories” sometime around 1998 (maybe 1997). I have spent enough time researching topics like the Oklahoma City bombing, Waco, the JFK assassination, the income tax, 9/11, Sandy Hook, etc…, to where I can say that I think that the “official government” story about all of these things is a lie.

    Once again, does this mean that I believe that every conspiracy theory is true? Like I said above, no. There are conspiracy theories that have turned out to be false, or where the evidence is not conclusive enough for me to be able to say yes or no, or where there may be truth to the overall conspiracy theory, a theorist may have certain details wrong.

    People who are tied into the system, as in they make their living off of government, or who have some kind of psychological attachment to government, or who are mainstream conformists, or who don’t want to be perceived as being “kooky” by their mainstream conformist friends, family members, co-workers, neighbors, etc…, have a tendency to automatically reject any “conspiracy theory,” unless of course it is a “conspiracy theory” which is officially sanctioned by the government (for example, the official government story about 9/11 is a conspiracy theory, yet these people think this conspiracy theory is OK, because it is a theory that is sanctioned by the government). There are also those who are too stupid, or too lazy, or too pre-occupied with other things to where they cannot or will not do their own research, so their typical reaction to non-government sanctioned “conspiracy theories” is to automatically reject them.

    It seems that whenever anyone wants to discredit people who talk about “conspiracy theories” which are not officially sanctioned by the government that they tend to come out with the most far out sounding, and difficult to prove things, like something to do with space aliens or shape shifting lizard people, or something like that, and then act like every so called “conspiracy theorist” (as in people who talk about conspiracy theories which are not sanctioned by government) believes in these things, which they do not, and they use these most “far out” sounding conspiracy theory as tools to discredit every other conspiracy theory that is not government sanctioned, even when those who talk about these conspiracies can present lots of evidence to back up what they say. This is nothing more than a guilt-by-association (even if it is a loose association) smear tactic.

    I think that blindly believing everything that the government says is more dangerous than questioning everything that the government says.

  21. Andy

    Andy Craig said: “January 9, 2015 at 4:52 am

    Even if, for argument’s sake, some popular conspiracy theory was true (take your pick), is it really worth sacrificing our credibility and legitimacy on every other important issue? Because that’s what the choice comes down to: once your known as a CT candidate, or even worse a CT party, that is all you’ll be known for.”

    This Is really no different than people who say things like, “Libertarians should not talk about legalizing all drugs, because then they will just be known as those crazy people who want to legalize drugs.”

  22. Andy

    “Andy Craig

    January 9, 2015 at 4:46 am

    Sandy Hook? Really? You try running for office on the platform of “Sandy Hook was a hoax, 9/11 was an inside job, aliens are real, chemtrails are poisoning us, the moon landing was faked, and JFK was killed by the Illuminati” and get back to us on how that goes. Just please don’t do it as a Libertarian, because none of those things have anything to do with libertarianism.”

    I think that Sandy Hook was staged by the government, and that 9/11 was an inside job. I don’t know about space aliens. Given the size of the universe, it would seem likely that there’d be other life out there, but I have no proof that there is, nor do I know if aliens have ever really visited here. I do know that the government has kept files on UFO’s and things of this nature. I’ve got no idea if there is any truth to any of the UFO space alien stuff, but I also do not like the idea of the government keeping secret files, so I’d like to see all of those files released to the public. I’ve looked into chemtrails. I think that there are chemtrails, but I am not convinced as to what they are really doing. I’ve looked into the moon landing, but I have yet to be convinced either way. I don’t know if JFK was killed by “the Illuminati,” per say, but I do think that the official story about the JFK assassination is a lie, and I think that the CIA and LBJ had something to do with carrying it out.

    I would say all of these things have everything to do with libertarianism. Why? Because they point out that people in government frequently lie and frequently engage in criminal acts. Government officials engage in conspiracies on an every day basis in this country, from the local police that lies in their reports and set people up, all the way up to the top politicians and heads of big government agencies.

    Libertarians by our vary nature are supposed to question authority, not blindly believe everything the government tells us to believe.

  23. Andy Craig

    “Conspiracy theorists love to preface their trutherisms with phrases like ” those of us who question the official story…..”

    This is a rhetorical trick to give the illusion that they are noble skeptics practicing rational suspicion

    Here’s the thing, truthers

    I don’t question your questioning. I question your absurd and idiotic alternative explanations. It isn’t the mistrust of authority and conventional wisdom that’s raising red flags, it’s the bullshitty hypotheses that follow

    Glad we could clear that up
    -b”
    -from the Skeptical Libertarian

    And no, it’s nothing like your drug legalization analogy, because drug legalization is actually part of the libertarian platform, wheres popular CTs are not and any effort to include them would rightfully fail.

  24. Andy

    “local police that lies in their reports”

    Should read, “local police that lie in their reports…”

  25. Joe

    When I ran as a Libertarian for the US Congress in 2008 (Utah First District), I called for “Congressional legislation to protect whistle-blowers, and then open hearings on waste, fraud, criminal activity and the ET/UFO issue.” Specifically legislation that would release all black budget contractors from any secrecy oaths related to any of the above.

    If that makes me a UFO nut, so be it. Steve Gordon published a photo of a guy in a tin foil hat on his blog ridiculing my campaign. He and others contacted various members of the LNC, including its chair at the time, to see if I could not be repudiated/removed as a candidate (I was in Bill Redpath’s home when he got the call — a day or so after my nomination in Utah and the launch of my campaign at the National Press Club in DC.

    So none of the above is unfamiliar.

    What I would urge those sincerely interested in a rational evaluation of the evidence for waste, fraud, criminal activity and secrecy oaths that prevent testimony about those issues, as well as the ET issue, to do is — read the more credible evidence. I agree that there is no bottom end to the crazy side of the spectrum of witness testimony and crazy-ass theories. Crazy knows no limits. But look for Dr. Edgar Mitchell (PhD from MIT, 6th man to walk on the moon, and a guy who was raised on a hard-scrabble ranch outside of (yep, really) Roswell, NM). Read Gordon Cooper’s book “A Leap of Faith” and his depiction of his time at Edwards (Muroc). Read Col. John Alexander’s book “UFOs: Myths, Conspiracies and Realities.” (John worked in Los Alamos, and prior to that really was part of the CIA’s Remote Viewing team (yes, we really had this)).

    Part of a classic disinformation campaign (by corporations and by governments and by smart kids) is to tell the truth and also tell a bunch of crazy so the truth gets lost in a fog. Or to tell the truth but make it sound like a lie. Our government does this with waste, fraud and criminal activity — that’s easily demonstrated fact.

    Do they do it with the ET issue? I do not know. I suspect they do. Therefore, to repeat, I would like for Congress to pass legislation protecting whistle-blowers, and removing any secrecy oaths from anyone regarding waste, fraud and criminal activity within our government and its contractors — and regarding any evidence that we may have for ET life/contact with humanity. And then hold Hearings on those issues.

    That is their job. They are not doing it. Congress has apparently abandoned its oversight role and surrendered to a, IMO, beyond-its-Constitutional-boundaries, all too powerful Executive branch.

    Robert Burke, IMO, has done nothing to diminish his credibility as a candidate. Afterall the two guys I ran against in 2008 each believe that their father was born on a planet named Kolob, came to earth and had relations with a virgin to produce Jesus, and that they too will get to do something similar if they and their thousands of celestial sister-wives are good enough.

    But that’s mainstream religions belief.

    I’m not a UFO “believer;” it’s not a “religion.” But I would appreciate some slack for finding at least some of the evidence intriguing, some of the witnesses clearly credible, some basis for having government hearings to be reasonable and worthy of respect rather than ridicule.

    Look at the evidence. What is causing highly credible folks like former White House Chief of Staff and current Obama and CLinton adviser, John Podesta to call for exactly the same kind of thing? What is causing our best-trained nuclear missile officers to report UFOs shutting down our defenses? Is this just a psychiatric issue? Either way it is clearly worthy of scientific, objective study and Congressional Hearings.

    Or so it seems to me.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/11/is-ufo-disclosure-on-the-plate-of-john-podesta_n_4428119.html

    http://youtu.be/R2Sz-MgoFos

    http://www.thewire.com/politics/2013/12/obamas-second-term-surprise-yes-aliens-are-real/355981/

    http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/ufos-beyond-apollo-14-astronaut-ed-mitchell-looking-n165321

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvPR8T1o3Dc

  26. paulie

    Conspiracy theorists love to preface their trutherisms with phrases like ”those of us who question the official story…..”

    This is a rhetorical trick to give the illusion that they are noble skeptics practicing rational suspicion

    For some people, yes. For others it means exactly what it says and nothing more. Likewise, for some people the following is actually true:

    I don’t question your questioning. I question your absurd and idiotic alternative explanations.

    Whereas for others, it is actually the questioning that they don’t like, and the alternative theories are almost besides the point, or at least only useful to them as a way to discourage questions from being seriously considered.

  27. paulie

    “I think WTF is more of a humor post, as opposed to a malicious one like vermin Vern’s.”

    I would not be surprised if it was from “Vernon” or some other paid government internet troll.

    The truth is out there. It’s important to keep an open mind. 🙂

  28. Jill Pyeatt

    As I said before, comments about “tin-foil hats” and calling me a “conspiracy theorist”. doesn’t phase me at all. Those are not intellectual arguments; that’s childish name calling on a grand scale.

    Some of my favorite spokesmen for 9/11 are G Edward Griffin (author of that book some of you may have read about Jekyll Island), and Paul Craig Roberts, an economist who worked with St. Reagan (oops, I mean Ronald Reagan) while he was in the White House. Also, someone who has looked at the Sandy Hook inconsistencies (like where the other 600 kids in the school were, since they never left the school that day) is Art Olivier, vice-presidential candidate for the Libertarian Party in 2000.

    I know there are ridiculous theories out there, but that doesn’t mean the government’s official conspiracy theory is 100 %accurate. All it takes is a few dillgent hours of research to know there are many unanswered questions. Since when is asking questions unlibertarian?

    Oh, that’s right–it’s not.

  29. Andy

    Andy Craig said: “I don’t question your questioning. I question your absurd and idiotic alternative explanations. It isn’t the mistrust of authority and conventional wisdom that’s raising red flags, it’s the bullshitty hypotheses that follow”

    I question your absurd and idiotic belief that official government explanations are always true.

  30. Rob Banks

    I’m looking for a long old thread on this subject which went on for, I think, at least 400 comments, which was started by an article by George Phillies in his newsletter/blog. I’m not having any luck finding it. Can anyone find and post a link to it?

  31. Joe

    Jill Pyeatt @ January 9, 2015 at 1:17 pm

    Ditto.

    BTW: CES looks like science fiction. My favorite “the driverless-mobile-social-space” formerly known as a “car.” This is a “car” in the sense of a railroad tycoon’s private “car.”

    This morning I was in an intelligent “car” — one with eye tracking cameras, as well as all sorts of radar/video around the car such that if the car thinks you need to return your attention to the windshield area, it will alert you to do so. It can also automatically gently brake, AND it can warn other “connected cars” behind you that something may be amiss.

    And the drones. Lots of drones. 3-“printing,” home security all integrated into that thing in your pocket that is more “something else” than mere cell phone.

    RCA is back (someone bought the old brand name) and they are giving out stuffed Nipper puppies (Nipper was once the most recognized trade symbol on the planet (with the tag line “His Master’s Voice.”)

    Everything old is new again.

    Joe

  32. Andy Craig

    As much as CT-ists would like to have it that way, the world is not divided into idiots who uncritically swallow “official government-sanctioned explanations” on the one hand and Brave, Noble, Smart people like them who know “the Truth™” on the other. The fact that you can’t even fathom somebody could step outside the echo chamber and see how ridiculous this is, unless they’re somehow an accomplice in the conspiracy, speaks for itself. Any relation between historical facts and popular conspiracy theories are pure coincidence, and the overlap is vanishingly narrow.

    I’m not interested in arguing any particular jumble of paranoid nonsense, or quibbling over an overly-literal and irrelevant definition of the words “conspiracy theory” that always gets invoked- since CTs are all somehow united against non-believers even when their pet theories are mutually contradictory. I’m not in the business of trying to disabuse somebody of their religious beliefs, which is all the Jones/Ventura/et al dogma is. It’s not even a political issue at all, as far as I’m concerned. It’s no different than if a candidate was to start rambling on about their opinion on the Immaculate Conception or Bah’ai theology.

    I just want to make it clear that myself and many other Libertarians aren’t signing up for this crap when we join the party or run as its candidates. The fact that active party members freak out and try to disavow candidates who go off on these sorts of tangents is proof of that. That’s not an ideological disagreement over some point in the platform- which we have plenty of- it’s going off the rails completely and using the LP as a vehicle for issues that have *nothing* to do with libertarianism. And no, “it makes the government look bad if people believe this, true or not.” doesn’t count.

    And of course it always plays out the same way, just like that article I posted above: the CTs see people telling them that their ideas are toxic and counter-productive and demonstrably false as just more fuel for their persecution complex. Now even other Libertarians are in on it! Sheeple! Wake up! I Must Be Smarter Than You! *smh*

    If you really want to take this sort of thing up in the context of a political campaigned for elected office, try resurrecting the Anti-Masonic Party. Or maybe the Anti-Illuminati Party or the Alien Disclosure Party or the 9/11 Truth Party. But for god’s sake, don’t call it the “Libertarian Party”

  33. paulie

    Excessive government secrecy is a legitimate libertarian issue, regardless of how much or what you may or may not suspect “they” have to hide.

  34. Andy Craig

    What’s next- Libertarians for Bigfoot Truth? Libertarians for Exposing the Shape-Shifting Reptilians? Libertarians for Apollo Hoax Exposure? Libertarians for Timothy McVeigh Was Innocent? Libertarians For Shooting Down the Mind Control Satellites? Libertarians Against the CIA Microchips In Your Brain? Libertarians for Holocaust Denial?

    Where does this end, if any “theory” that casts the US government as the bad guy is to be entitled to credibility on that basis alone, no matter outlandish or toxic or harmful to the party’s image? If you can’t draw the line at alien abductions, I don’t think you can draw it anywhere,

    I draw the line at issues that are in the regular public discourse, based on actual known facts that subject to independent confirmation, not the latest “theory” yelled into a webcam and uploaded to youtube. CTs aren’t about exposing anything, they’re about story-telling. It’s the political equivalent of professional wrestling, with about the same relation to reality. They are pure poison for the LP, and candidates who put them out under the Libertarian label do a grave disservice to the party.

  35. paulie

    Calling for hearings, investigations, and disclosure is different from advancing a theory or any set of positive claims. Even the quote from the skeptical libertarian says there is nothing wrong with asking questions, which is all a hearing is.

  36. Andy Craig

    Not trying to be that flippant, but the clip instantly came to mind.

    “Just asking questions” doesn’t answer my objection: where (if anywhere) are we supposed to draw the line on advocacy of toxic, marginal CTs? And Robert is not just joining an innocent plea for transparency, he’s a true believer in ET/UFO Disclosure, Roswell, abductions, details about particular alien species, etc., etc. to the point where he actively planned his campaign around his predicted timing of this “Disclosure” nonsense.

    It’s a problem many of us in LP-Wisconsin had with him to begin with, like I said earlier he explicitly promised several of us we wouldn’t see “Libertarian Candidate for Governor Believes In Aliens” headlines. The only takeaway I have from it, is to not trust a CT True Believer who says he’ll campaign on the real issues and understands why the party wants no part in promoting CTs.

  37. paulie

    Presuming that a question necessarily presumes an answer is incorrect, and contradicts your claim to agree with the statement “I don’t question your questioning.”

    I can’t speak for Burke, but I can say that I have questions, not answers, about some of these topics.

    And again, excessive government secrecy is a legitimate issue even if you don’t believe they have very much to hide.

    I haven’t seen Burke say he believes in aliens. And if he does, he’d be among a large percentage, I would guess quite possibly a majority, of the general public.

  38. paulie

    Robert is not just joining an innocent plea for transparency, he’s a true believer

    I’ll have to take your word for it since I don’t know the guy. My statements are of a more general nature.

  39. Jill Pyeatt

    There is nothing on this thread, Andy Craig, that warrants the over generalization and lumping all question-askers into the same category as you have in your previous comments. It’s a shame your personal prejudice prevents you from rational conversation about this topic. I don’t see any reason to discuss this anymore here, though, since it’s been discussed before on IPR. You can rest assured that the topics won’t go away, though, especially since the government keeps getting sloppier as time goes on, and it’s easier than ever to expose their bad behavior.

  40. George Phillies

    It would be interesting to see people trying to answer questions rather than asking them. As Tom Knapp points out the 911 folks seem never to have constructed a credible alternative, to the private insurance company plus university report, as to why the buildings fell down. Also, much question asking is transparently two visible forms of gross intellectual dishonesty, namely asking absurdly leading questions and then. if called on it, saying that people were just asking questions. The second gross form of gross intellectual dishonesty starts “How do you explain…”, deceitfully claiming that inability to explain some odd fact means that the other side has lost the argument.

  41. paulie

    Nothing like that here; only a call for an investigation, period. And asking for an alternative explanation presupposes that everyone who is asking questions has one, or that those who do agree on what it is, neither of which is the case. But since we are talking about UFOs here, what questions do you want to ask of those who believe they (or at least some) are alien spacecraft?

  42. Andy Craig

    I’ll put it this way: if the Libertarian candidate for Governor of Louisiana were to endorse a petition endorsing congressional hearing on what the government knows about Xenu and Thetans, what would your response be? If a candidate planned to make 9/11 Truth (sic) a central campaign plank? How about “Charlie Hebdo was a government false-flag conspiracy!”? To get back to my example that nobody addressed- holocaust denial, or other blatantly offensive historical revisionism? “Just asking questions and pushing for transparency” still a valid excuse?

    If you think any of those is a problem, then you concede the only point I’m asking. And I think debating which side of the line “ET/UFO disclosure” falls on is absurd.

    Let’s play this out, though. Let’s say Congress goes full on special-committee hearing on aliens and UFOs and Roswell and government-sanctioned abductions and secret treaties between Eisenhower and aliens. What, exactly, do you expect to come of that? You really think our hypothetical Master Criminal Conspiracy That Controls Everything is going to be scared of a *congressional subpoena*? You would get the exact same answers the government has already given dozens of times over. Which will of course then just be more proof of how all-powerful and malicious the conspiracy is. The grand sum total fruit of the effort will be to make a few Congressmen the object of enough mockery to derail any aspirations they had to higher office.

  43. paulie

    Why do you suppose that everyone who has suspicions that some parts of government are possibly concealing information about extraterrestrial contact necessarily believes in some “Master Criminal Conspiracy That Controls Everything”? It’s far more likely that, as with the CIA torture report and other information some parts of government have grudgingly revealed under question from others, the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. We have seen that happen many times with congressional hearings.

    As for whether this is akin to “Charlie Hebdo was a government false-flag conspiracy!” or Xenu and Thetans or holocaust denial, do half of Americans already believe such things?

  44. AndyCraig

    “Half of Americans” don’t buy this nonsense. That poll referred to the number of people who believe in some alien life out there somewhere- not even necessarily intelligent life- not those who believe in the exact particulars being pushed (and they have very exact particulars they’re pushing) by this project and other associated (and endlessly contradictory) alien CTs. And even if there *was* a poll that found X% support for the CIA-is-covering-up-aliens pop-CT, that doesn’t make it worthy of support. Because it’s false. And ridiculous. At best, you’ll find some marginally-interesting historical footnotes about cover stories for classified aircraft tests half a century ago… which will undermine support for the US government…. how, exactly? In the meantime it makes us “that party that nominated that UFO guy that got 0.8%.”

  45. Andy

    “George Phillies

    January 9, 2015 at 7:47 pm

    It would be interesting to see people trying to answer questions rather than asking them.”

    Lots of people in the 9/11 Truth Movement have answered questions, but some of the stuff is hard to get answers for since the government has actively engaged in a cover-up.

    “As Tom Knapp points out the 911 folks seem never to have constructed a credible alternative, to the private insurance company plus university report, as to why the buildings fell down.”

    Oh, you mean the insurance company that insured the World Trade Center of which Marvin Bush was on the Board of Directors, HCC?

    http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0204-06.htm

    Marvin Bush was also on the Board of Directors of the company that ran electronic security for the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport, and United Airlines, ad the company was backed by a Kuwati-American Corporation also linked the Bush family. Imagine that.

    “George W. Bush’s brother was on the board of directors of a company providing electronic security for the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport and United Airlines, according to public records. The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp., also linked for years to the Bush family.

    The security company, formerly named Securacom and now named Stratesec, is in Sterling, Va.. Its CEO, Barry McDaniel, said the company had a “completion contract” to handle some of the security at the World Trade Center “up to the day the buildings fell down.”

    The World Trade Center Demolition as an Insurance Scam

    http://911review.com/motive/insurance.html

  46. Robert Capozzi

    ac: As much as CT-ists would like to have it that way, the world is not divided into idiots who uncritically swallow “official government-sanctioned explanations” on the one hand and Brave, Noble, Smart people like them who know “the Truth™” on the other.

    me: That joint’s on point!

    Absolutist thought systems are prone to such bi-polar constructs: All one way or the other extreme.

    Now, as for what I personally believe: I believe sometimes the government manipulates economic data. Most of the time I think their economic data is unreliable, because the methodology is flawed.

  47. Robert Capozzi

    btw, I have no problem confessing that I once thought I may have seen a UFO. I was maybe 8, and it was through a window, so my spotting of it was fleeting. I certainly can’t swear to it one way or another, so I am open to the possibility that we are not alone.

    Whether Queen Elizabeth is a Lizard Person I can’t say 100% either way, but that seems quite a bit less likely.

  48. langa

    I’m generally not a big fan of conspiracy theories. However, I’m even less fond of all this paranoia about “respectability” and “being taken seriously” with which a few people on this thread seem obsessed. Quite a few people who are now considered geniuses and visionaries were once commonly derided as “nuts” or “cranks” (or whatever ad hominem you prefer).

  49. Robert Capozzi

    L: Quite a few people who are now considered geniuses and visionaries were once commonly derided as “nuts” or “cranks” (or whatever ad hominem you prefer).

    me: Yes, true. For every genius visionary, though, I’d say there are at least 100 certifiable nuts.

  50. paulie

    “Half of Americans” don’t buy this nonsense.

    I’m not sure which parts are nonsense, but http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/publicopinionpolls.htm lists numerous polls, some of which show it’s a lot more than half (for example 80% in a CNN poll with a 3% margin of error that thought the US government is concealing knowledge of extraterrestrial life). I am not familiar with the source site, haven’t checked to see if the polls they list actually had those results, haven’t checked the poll methodology or sample selection for any of the polls and have no explanation for the different results, but nevertheless, we have a starting point if anyone wants to pursue it.

    That poll referred to the number of people who believe in some alien life out there somewhere- not even necessarily intelligent life- not those who believe in the exact particulars being pushed (and they have very exact particulars they’re pushing) by this project and other associated (and endlessly contradictory) alien CTs.

    You are assuming facts not in evidence. It’s true that some of the people involved with pushing for such investigations hold specific theories about what exactly they think various government agencies are concealing. Others are just curious as to what it might be without holding any fixed preconceptions. I am among the second group. I’ll have to take your word that Mr. Burke is in the first group.

    And even if there *was* a poll that found X% support for the CIA-is-covering-up-aliens pop-CT, that doesn’t make it worthy of support. Because it’s false. And ridiculous.

    Sounds like an article of faith with you. How do you know whether it is false, much less ridiculous? I am not by any means claiming that I know or even think it is true, but no part of the chain of assumptions or guesses that would lead someone to believe it – that there is intelligent life on other planets, that some of it involves interstellar travel and exploration, that they have found us, that they are studying us, that they have made contact with us, that government agencies obsessed with security and secrecy are concealing evidence of this for any number of possible reasons – seems implausible on the surface. Which of these steps do you think is highly unlikely, and why?

    At best, you’ll find some marginally-interesting historical footnotes about cover stories for classified aircraft tests half a century ago

    How do you know what an investigation might find? You seem to believe you know the answers, while accusing others of believing they do. Personally, I don’t know the answers, and it’s not on my high priority list to know them, but I am curious.

  51. Jill Pyeatt

    Let’s not overlook this priceless comment from AC: “As much as CT-ists would like to have it that way, the world is not divided into idiots who uncritically swallow “official government-sanctioned explanations” on the one hand and Brave, Noble, Smart people like them who know “the Truth™” on the other”.

    He is the person on this thread insisting on lumping everyone into one category. I said from the outset that the only two issues I had studied were the events of 9/11 and at Sandy Hook, yet he insists on bringing up the silly reptile stuff, making it impossible to rationally discuss things. He has some personal prejudice that makes it impossible to discern that this “Truth” movement he impugns involves tons of different individuals and different topics. Most of us starting looking at some particular topic on our own, realized there was evidence disproving the Official Story or, lack of proof for official stories. Some people are lukewarm about it, and simply want more info.

    I have a total of what–9,000 FB friends? Even if we use the number I’ve read of about 15 % of them being active, that’s still a fair amount of people to discuss things. I’ll continue to ask questions and learn what I can and ignore toxic people.

    Some people are going to talk about this stuff, and it’s not likely to be Republicans or Democrats. There are millions of people we can be talking to who could be considered “Truthers”, and they’re generally people capable of “thinking out of the box”, which is of course what we Libertarians do. ,

  52. AndyCraig

    I’m the one bringing up the silly reptile stuff? Did you read the headline on this post? The “Disclosure Project” and the silly reptile stuff are indistinguishable. The only difference is they (unlike us, apparently) *do* care about putting out a semi-respectable public face before they draw people into the higher levels of Scientology-level crazy.

    No, I’m not going to address your own particular CTs, because the discussion wasn’t about you, it was about Robert Burke and the general question of Libertarian candidates advocating toxic, absurd. reputation-damaging CTs. (Though if you must know my opinion, “Sandy Hook was a hoax” ranks about on par with “Eisenhower’s secret meetings with aliens.”)

    As for the idea that this sort of stuff brings “free-thinking” people into the party and grows our vote totals, I’ll just leave this here and let people draw their own conclusions about if they want “ET/UFO Disclsoure” “chemtrails” “9/11 truth” and “Oswald didn’t kill JFK.” at the top of the ticket in their state.

    http://www.lp.org/blogs/staff/libertarian-results-for-governor-2010-2014

  53. Jill Pyeatt

    Okay, you got me, Andy. That one four-year-old link from one state for one office definitely proves to me that there’s zero validity to anyone who has any alternate views for any of those issues listed.

    Thank goodness we have someone like Andy Craig who knows for sure all this stuff is false!

  54. Jill Pyeatt

    ^^And all that because President Obama and George “Dubya” Bush would NEVER lie to the American people!

  55. paulie

    I’m the one bringing up the silly reptile stuff?

    Pretty much, yes.

    Did you read the headline on this post?

    “Robert Burke, 2014 Libertarian Candidate for WI Governor, Calls for ET/UFO Disclosure.” Nothing about reptilians. And just based on the headline alone it could even mean just calling for a general investigation into the possibility that UFO evidence has been hidden – nothing more specific.

    The “Disclosure Project” and the silly reptile stuff are indistinguishable.

    I’ll have to take your word for that, since I have no outside knowledge of that. If it’s the same group I met with at Joe Buchman’s house/restaurant nearby/guest house they were staying at nearby while I was staying with Joe a couple of years ago, I can tell you they never talked about reptilians or anything similarly outlandish around me. You seem pretty certain though. How much in the way of dealings have you had with them, or what is the basis of your knowledge about them?

    Brave, Noble, Smart people like them who know “the Truth™

    Seems to describe some opinions expressed in this thread, but not necessarily those who differ with official government accounts. There is however a certain air of absolute certainty and extreme dismissiveness of any differing views that I find does not agree with me, on general principles.

  56. paulie

    As for the idea that this sort of stuff brings “free-thinking” people into the party and grows our vote totals, I’ll just leave this here and let people draw their own conclusions about if they want “ET/UFO Disclsoure” “chemtrails” “9/11 truth” and “Oswald didn’t kill JFK.” at the top of the ticket in their state.

    http://www.lp.org/blogs/staff/libertarian-results-for-governor-2010-2014

    I don’t see any testing of how such messaging would impact our vote totals, and you are lumping a lot of different ideas together. There’s also the question of whether we should lead with such issues. I wouldn’t. That’s different from saying no candidate may ever under any circumstances mention his or her opinion of any of these issues if it happens to differ with regime orthodoxy.

  57. Jill Pyeatt

    For the record, I do try to keep my Truther activiies separate from my Libertarian activities out of respect for those in the LP that desire they be kept separate. When I run across such utter disrespect from someone like Andy Craig, though, who attacked Joe’s article and made it about much more than it was, I’ll speak up.

    If I wanted to be around people with closed minds, I’d still be a Republican.

  58. paulie

    It sounds like a personal issue for Andy C., perhaps just with Robert Burke or perhaps there’s more to it. I don’t mean to pick at scabs here; none of these conspiracy conjecture questions are anywhere near the top of my priority list. I find them somewhat interesting, sometimes amusing, sometimes intriguing and sometimes ridiculous. But I don’t think they are the main issues we should focus on. I also don’t have the visceral reaction to them that some people have because they think it hurts our credibility. I think our credibility may already be below that of UFO enthusiasts. 🙂

  59. AndyCraig

    I didn’t attack Joe’s article, or say anything negative about Joe for posting it. I criticized Robert Burke for putting this stuff out there under the “Wisconsin Libertarian” label in the first place, for the exact same reason you claim to respect. You’re the one wanting to needlessly personalize it, throwing out accusations of closed minds because I have the temerity to suggest maybe we shouldn’t want to be known as the UFO conspiracy party.

    “Utter disrespect” is what Robert has done here, utter disrespect to the members of our state party whom he promised to maintain the same distinction you speak of. Utter disrespect to those who want LP in Wisconsin to be anything more than marginalized and irrelevant, utter disrespect for those who hope to use the LP in Wisconsin to actually affect public debate on the real political issues in our state, and maybe someday actually elect a Libertarian to partisan office.

    “”There’s also the question of whether we should lead with such issues. I wouldn’t. That’s different from saying no candidate may ever under any circumstances mention his or her opinion of any of these issues if it happens to differ with regime orthodoxy.””

    Then you are agreeing with me, because Robert Burke *has* been leading with this. It’s practically all he talks about (along with his associated theory of imminent economic collapse, caused by alien disclosure of course) As somebody who was actually on the ground campaigning with him, and on the same ballot, I lost count of how many people told me they were voting for myself and/or one of the other Libertarians, but couldn’t vote for Robert. And the results bear that out- Robert was the only Gov. candidate not facing another strong third party, who got less than 1%. He was one of two who got fewer votes than Gary Johnson got in his state. It is not speculative to say he unperformed expectations and our state party’s baseline vote (2.1% for last US Sen). And I don’t think it’s speculation to say his obsession with this topic is part of the reason why.

  60. paulie

    Then you are agreeing with me, because Robert Burke *has* been leading with this. It’s practically all he talks about (along with his associated theory of imminent economic collapse, caused by alien disclosure of course)

    Didn’t know that. Yes, I would agree that’s not what he should have focused on, doubly so if he broke promises not to do so which he made to get the nomination. I agree that is disrespectful to the delegates who picked him and his running mates. I have no independent confirmation of this so I am assuming you are characterizing it accurately for the purpose of this response.

  61. Gene Berkman

    Some years a ago a poll found that more Americans believed in UFOs than believe social security will still be financially secure when they retire. News reports failed to mention that most of those who believe social security will still be there for them also believe that aliens will land and bail out the system.

  62. AndyCraig

    I felt this way about the toxic nature of CTs in the LP (or “Trutherism” or whatever label you prefer) long before I met Robert, but seeing his self-destruction in action has certainly solidified that opinion. I basically watched a campaign go down in flames because of CT kookery, and I stand by my assertion that anybody who makes their CT beliefs the center of their candidacy, should be denied the Libertarian nomination. And any promise from a CT-ist that they won’t campaign on CTs, should be greeted with extreme skepticism at best. If that makes me “close-minded” because I don’t jump down the rabbithole and help destroy the LP brand, so be it, but I prefer some actual libertarianism in my Libertarian nominees’ campaigns.

  63. Jill Pyeatt

    For the record, I agree that none of these topics should be primary in any campaign, and especially if it was discussed and Mr. Burke promised not to. You have a legitimate beef with him. Your comments went well beyond that, though, which is certainly your right, but when I’m insulted, I’m going to respond.

    So, now we got to know you a bit better. Many people agree with you. Many others don’t. We all find our niche within our party and with our activism, and I’ve found mine. Part of my niche is not keeping my mouth shut when millions of people are lumped into one category and impugned.

    I’m pretty much done with this thread.

  64. AndyCraig

    If you feel that any criticism of CT-ism in the LP is a personal insult, that’s your choice. Sorry if stating the obvious re: the implications for the party, and citing what the people you’re defending *actually believe,* is too offensive.

    But I’ll keep in mind: every view is entitled to respect in CT-land, except for non-believers. Doesn’t matter how ludicrous or off-topic or contradictory or untrue or even offensive the CT is, the only thing that’s not allowed is refusing to join in the delusion that CTs have something to do with skeptical inquiry. Where a guy can walk in with an idea snatched straight from the headlines of National Enquirer, and the person who dismisses it is being “close-minded.”

    Personally, I’m looking forward to Libertarians exposing the Bigfoot and Loch Ness cover-ups. Maybe we can nominate Alex Jones for President while we’re at it.

  65. AndyCraig

    And since (like always) I’ve been accused of not looking at the “evidence” – I’ll just add that I enjoy a good UFO-cover-up “documentary” as much as the next guy, and I’ve seen more “Disclosure” stuff than any sane person would subject themselves too. It’s good entertainment. But that is exactly all it is: entertainment, a riff on a decades-old cultural meme pieced together with paid actors, attention-seeking willful liars, faked “evidence”, out-of-context “experts”, etc, etc.- that doesn’t hold up for a second without suspension of disbelief. Just like all the other CTs I “offensively” lumped in together. It all deserves to be taken as seriously as the plot of a Jerry Springer episode.

  66. Rob Banks

    So… is the only way to be respectful to your opinion…to be very disrespectful to any other opinion on any of these issues? Because otherwise I am more than OK with your view of these issues. As for Alex Jones, I am not aware of him wanting to run for president.

  67. Robert Capozzi

    To me, CT stuff feels like a political Hail Mary. Convince enough people the Cheney gave the order to take down the Towers, or W and Obama are alien puppets, or whatever, and somehow the slumbering masses will — when converted to these views — will have a collective epiphany and then realize that fetuses are in fact parasites.

    Seems kinda far fetched to me as a strategy. Certainly high risk, though I’m not sure the rewards’d all that great, if successful. W and Obama as puppets, for ex., is not necessarily an argument for smaller government. It could be an argument for a bigger one, actually

    Why go there?

  68. paulie

    Depends on what you mean by “there.” The angle that I see as potentially useful is attacking excessive government secrecy. People have a natural curiosity about what is behind closed doors and what is being purposely kept from them, there’s a documented history of governments covering up all kinds of dirty crap as well as massive amounts of very mundane things that make you scratch your head and laugh as to why anyone thought it should be a secret. Wikileaks and other such efforts are starting to bring some sunshine into some of those corners. I’m all for seizing that momentum.

    On the other hand, whether space aliens have been in touch with humans or who carried out 9/11 doesn’t change my mind about any substantive policy issue even if I knew the answers with absolute certainty, so the answers are not a high priority for me. If I spend any time thinking about them nowadays it’s usually only because someone is saying we shouldn’t think about it at all.

  69. AndyCraig

    Nobody is saying you shouldn’t think about it. I’m saying the Libertarian Party shouldn’t campaign on CTs, or allow the impression to be given by our nominees that CTs are what we’re about. Because, as you rightfully note, the implications for the substantive policy questions the LP actually exists for is nil, and because it *actively harms* our ability to speak on those issues to the general electorate

    I’m not speculating here: I’ve had would-be *candidates* -and potential members- refuse to be associated with a party that nominated a CT-ist for Governor. And I’d be half-inclined to join them, if not for the fact that I believe in the LP and its potential to have a real impact, and I know that Robert does not speak for the rest of our state party on these matters.

  70. paulie

    I think you have a point that we shouldn’t focus on it. But I’m not as leery of allowing candidates to discuss their views when asked and things of such nature.

  71. AndyCraig

    If somebody asked our candidate if they believe in whatever CT, and they said “yes”, I might roll my eyes and grumble a bit, and I would personally strongly advise them to at least hedge their answer somewhat, but I wouldn’t complain that such a person should be categorically rejected as a Libertarian nominee. That is not what I’m saying. My objection is focused squarely on those who go out of their way to make things like alien abductions and chemtrails an active focus of their candidacy, to the neglect of the substantive libertarian policies they were nominated to advocate. (and yes, this election is over, but Robert has also talked about running for US Senate in 2016, so it’s not a moot question in our state party.)

  72. Andy

    I have been in the Libertarian Party since 1996, and I encourage candidates, and the party as a whole, to discuss conspiracy theories when they are relevant to the issues of the day, and when they are armed with facts to back them up.

    9/11 is highly relevant because it was used to expand government, and we are still feeling the effects of it today with The Patriot Act, the TSA, the DHS, NSA spying, etc…

    The only people who are offended by “conspiracy theory” talk are boot-licking mainstream conformist who are not going to vote Libertarian anyway, so to heck with them.

    Those who question what the government says are more likely to support libertarians than those who do not.

  73. AndyCraig

    Maybe (I hope) this isn’t as big an issue in other states. But it was a serious problem for this year’s campaign in Wisconsin, a constant headache that I spent almost as much time trying to prevent from blowing up as I did helping all our other campaigns combined (nevermind my own campaign). And it would be an even more serious problem if this story were picked up by in-state media. Something we’ve probably been spared from only due to our/his obscurity, which isn’t exactly something any political party should be grateful for.

  74. AndyCraig

    “”The only people who are offended by “conspiracy theory” talk are boot-licking mainstream conformist who are not going to vote Libertarian anyway, so to heck with them.””

    Yeah, like that idiot Ron Paul with his “blowback” nonsense, what was that about?. Every good Libertarian knows that absolutely nothing bad ever happens that isn’t actively controlled (and then successfully covered up) by senior US government officials.

    And there totally aren’t any voters out there who want smaller government, social tolerance, lower taxes, less war, etc.- or even actual Libertarian Party members and candidates- who DON’T think that the CIA has been covering up alien abductions for fifty years and 9/11 was a government hoax. And if they do exist- screw ’em! What kind of political party needs voters and growth and credibility and a focus on its founding message, anyway? Not Andy’s party!

    I must have skipped the Government Officials Are Omnipotent and All Conspiracy Theories Are Awesome sections of libertarianism 101, lost somewhere between public choice theory and the non-aggression principle. You know, actual libertarian theories.

  75. Robert Capozzi

    pf: The angle that I see as potentially useful is attacking excessive government secrecy. People have a natural curiosity about what is behind closed doors and what is being purposely kept from them, there’s a documented history of governments covering up all kinds of dirty crap as well as massive amounts of very mundane things that make you scratch your head and laugh as to why anyone thought it should be a secret.

    me: Yes, don’t disagree. I’m not seeing a winning campaign issue there, tho, and it looks like you agree.

    So let’s play the TAAAL-ist soundbite game:

    The Q&A briefing book might say:

    Q: What if you are asked about various conspiracy theories during the campaign, 9/11 Truth, aliens, chem trails, etc. What’s a model response?

    A: My campaign has no position on that matter. Generally, I do believe sunshine is the best disinfectant.

    IOW, sidestep the quicksand and keep moving. Nothing is to be gained by engaging in such matters from a political perspective. Say nothing to alienate CTists, but flash nothing to indicate support for CT-isms.

    One thing I will say here for CTs: They are not quite as toxic as NAMBLA.

  76. Woof

    Thank you Andy Craig for waging a good fight against the crazy Conspiracy Theories.

    Unfortunately you can almost never get the truly devout, true-believing, self-deluded Conspiracy Nut to look at any facts or consider reality in any way. Without serious, psychological intervention the CNs will remain addicted, spouting off nonsense till the end of their days. They infect the LP in numbers proportionately larger than their actual percentage in society at large, because they can subject a captive audience to their blather. They will continue to infect the LP until the day the LP becomes large enough that sanity sets in and the loons can no longer get a forum. Only then will they move on to the next forum that they can infect and get an audience. For most conspiracy nuts, it’s their own message that motivates them and not the message or interests of the group they’ve joined. Most CNs will join any group that allows them to twist the ears of a captive audience.

    And, unfortunately for the LP, it’s them or us. Either the LP grows, grows up, gets serious and drowns out the Conspiracy Nuts and other wackos like the Henry George earth nazis, so that they move on to some other small pond, or the real Libertarians will leave, and LP will finally die.

  77. Waldo TerraFirma

    Be very careful with chemtrails. They are actually PCP-lased weed smoke from flying saucers operated by stoned space aliens. There were tons of chemtrails all over the place when the aliens crash landed their saucers into the twin towers and the Pentagram on 9/11.

  78. Joe

    Back from CES after being offline for a few days. I happen to agree with former Chief of Staff Podesta. How about you?

    This insulting, dismissive, statist-BS-believing rants above notwithstanding.

  79. Waldo TerraFirma

    Have you ever been kidnapped by space aliens in a UFO? They like to put this trippy tube up your ass and blow PCP laced weed smoke up your rectum. Then they inhale the smoke and blow it back into you. It”s out of this world, man!

  80. Joseph Buchman Post author

    Andy Craig,

    “Personally, I’m looking forward to Libertarians exposing the Bigfoot and Loch Ness cover-ups. Maybe we can nominate Alex Jones for President while we’re at it.”

    Find a former Chief of Staff to the POTUS talking about these (Big Foot, Loch Ness, Queen as Reptile, etc) issues (at a press conference in the National Press Club, no less) and you can equivocate the these issues. Till then, take a look in the mirror. You seem, at least to me, to be guilty of what you are accusing others of — namely coming to conclusions without any basis in reality. Podesta was in a position to at least knock up against the edges of this issue.

    What a Congressional Hearing might uncover in regards to this issue — especially after passing legislation to protect whistle blowers regarding high crimes by government officials (and, yes, hiding evidence we are not alone in the universe would be, IMO, a high crime) would be a good thing. Especially if it could serve to advance a culture of transparency in the illegal, unproductive, dark, criminal corners of the black world of our government.

    If that’s not a consistent, grounded, moral, rational libertarian position, I guess I don’t know what a libertarian position is.

  81. Joseph Buchman Post author

    How about THIS in TODAY’s news.

    “Hillary Clinton’s expected campaign chairman has an eclectic record that includes UFO advocacy . . . (He) took a number of steps to promote government transparency on the issue. He spoke at a 2002 press conference calling on the US to declassify UFO records. He also wrote the foreword to the 2010 book “UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record.”

    http://www.businessinsider.com/john-podesta-is-really-into-ufos-2015-1

    So the leading Democrat doesn’t seem terrified of this issue. . . . yes?

  82. Waldo TerraFirma

    Dude…bro…Hillary Clinton is totally a space lizard, man. Just look in her eyes. Smoke a fatty and you can totally see it, dude. Ted Cruz too, homie. The eyes tell no lies. I don’t know about Rand Paul. His dad is a totally righteous bro, but maybe he’s half space lizard on his mother’s side?

  83. Andy

    Alex Jones does not talk about Bigfoot or The Loch Ness Monster. This is nothing more than a smear.

    Alex Jones would make a great candidate for President. He has a rabid cult following and has already proven ability to raise money. He’s a charismatic speaker who is very knowledgeable on the issues and he is very pro-liberty.

    Note that Alex Jones endorsed Gary Johnson for President in the last Presidential election. He endorsed Ron Paul for the GOP Presidential nomination in 2008 and in 2012. He endorsed Michael Badnarik for President in 2004.

  84. Joseph Buchman Post author

    Here’s the Executive Order Podesta references (one he helped create):

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/clinton/eo12958.html

    “This order prescribes a uniform system for classifying, safeguarding, and declassifying national security information. Our democratic principles require that the American people be informed of the activities of their Government. Also, our Nation’s progress depends on the free flow of information. Nevertheless, throughout our history, the national interest has required that certain information be maintained in confidence in order to protect our citizens, our democratic institutions, and our participation within the community of nations. Protecting information critical to our Nation’s security remains a priority. In recent years, however, dramatic changes have altered, although not eliminated, the national security threats that we confront. These changes provide a greater opportunity to emphasize our commitment to open Government.

    “NOW, THEREFORE, by the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows:

    . . .

    “Sec. 3.4. Automatic Declassification. (a) Subject to paragraph (b), below, within 5 years from the date of this order, all classified information contained in records that (1) are more than 25 years old, and (2) have been determined to have permanent historical value under title 44, United States Code, shall be automatically declassified whether or not the records have been reviewed. Subsequently, all classified information in such records shall be automatically declassified no longer than 25 years from the date of its original classification, except as provided in paragraph (b), below. . . .”

    It would seem Mr. Podesta is of the opinion that the government is not following its own law when it comes to transparency regarding its interest in UFOs.

    But hey, that’s just some nutty conspiracy, right? Toxic to any political campaign . . . except Hillary Clinton’s?

  85. Waldo TerraFirma

    I don’t understand why all these people that are likely totally supposed to have already took the red pill are falling for that space lizard Ted Cruz, man. Maybe he is mentally controlling them with beams directly to the brain. I’m sure chemtrails have a lot to do with it. Like, you inhale that chemtrail vapor and then look in his eyes and you get like, totally hypnotized and mind controlled. Whoah!

  86. Andy

    It looks like “Vernon” is back with a new fake name (Waldo Terra Firma), and a new fake agenda.

  87. Waldo TerraFirma

    Andy is pushing Alex Jones and Alex Jones is pushing Ted Cruz. Whoah, dude, is Andy a plant? Maybe he is just a tool who is, like, totally controlled by the globalist Illuminati, the Masons and the space alien shape shifting reptiles, bro?

  88. Andy

    “Waldo TerraFirma

    January 16, 2015 at 7:42 pm

    Andy is pushing Alex Jones and Alex Jones is pushing Ted Cruz. Whoah, dude, is Andy a plant? Maybe he is just a tool who is, like, totally controlled by the globalist Illuminati, the Masons and the space alien shape shifting reptiles, bro?”

    Give it up “Vern,” nobody is falling for your bullshit.

  89. Waldo TerraFirma

    Agent Andy – time to report back to base, your cover’s been blown. Repeat, back to base, your cover has been blown. This is Alpha from Team Ted Cruz Control, do you copy? Repeat, do you copy? Over.

  90. Robert Burke

    I’m going to jump in here because Andy has gone too far in his analysis of the election and contention that I underperformed.

    First, while I discussed the UFO/Disclosure issue with about half of the candidates I never, not one, brought it up a campaign speech or stop. Never. Zero.

    Second, while disparaging my vote total Mr Craig is ignoring that our top vote getter was our Attorney General candidate and he did absolutely nothing, which was just under your facebook effort. Every poll up to just before the election showed Walker and Mary Burke NECK AND NECK. If I had a dime for every time I heard “I like your ideas but I have to vote for XXXXX or YYYYY wins” I could have fully funded my campaign. I thought .08% was a hell of a return considering this was THE most divisive gubernatorial election in the nation and clearly Walker Recall 2.0. I would appreciate some acknowledgement for 5 tours around the state and speaking to over 40 groups thank you Mr Craig. I believe you traveled…where? Don’t bring your bad haircut and pasty skin and talk about my credibility as if you walked into rooms and engendered public faith.

    Here is the campaign material I put out…feel free to throw yours up and we can compare.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvliL4Qnx88

    Third, I did not discuss this during the campaign but what happens after the election is my choice and my free speech. I have been clear when asked, I base my conviction that we need hearings on the testimony of Daniel Sheehan, JD and I get my confidence that I am not alone by following Joe Buchmann who moderated the Citizen’s Hearing on Disclosure. Senator Mike Gravel does a nice bit on your $20K bullshit answer too…look it up. BTW- Senator Gravel is heading up Kush with Gary Johnson at Hi…so clearly he can’t be that out of touch.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bU6Z9cMN78

    IMHO Sheehan deserves our attention and respect. You want to be a lawyer? Try and be as brave as this one. He’s done a hell of a lot more than a shift at Walgreens.

    Fourth, I’m not interested in being fringe nor will the party will never win an election until there is a major paradigm shakeup. You have absolutely no background in economics or markets to make the statement “(along with his associated theory of imminent economic collapse, caused by alien disclosure of course)” not to mention the breach of confidence. In my political estimation we will always be dismissed until we choose to court the voting public differently. I have chosen three issues that I believe with 100% of my being are true and will be self evident in time garnering me credibility at that time… These are Chem-trails, the collapse, and the UFO cover-up. I am a rational and highly analytical thinker who has deeply researched all three issues and until you do you are doing nothing more than perpetuating the lies which is exactly what those covering up the issues want you to do.

    In other words, you’re being a tool, and kind of a dick too. The only person on this thread beating the “Disclosure is bad for the party” drum…is you.

  91. Robert Burke

    Speaking of Mr Cruz, guess who became the new Chair of the Space, Science and Competitiveness Committee in the Senate?

  92. Waldo TerraFirma

    “Speaking of Mr Cruz, guess who became the new Chair of the Space, Science and Competitiveness Committee in the Senate?”

    Fuck. I told you that shifty fucker Cruz is a space lizard, man. They are running the fucking government thru the Bavarian Illiminati society, the CIA and the Masons and this just proves it even more!

  93. Waldo TerraFirma

    “I have chosen three issues that I believe with 100% of my being are true and will be self evident in time garnering me credibility at that time… These are Chem-trails, the collapse, and the UFO cover-up. ”

    Thank you for having the guts to run on the top issues facing this country, and indeed the world. Every campaign should take a page from your book. Truly, sir, you are an hero to be admired and emulated. You are a great American and we are proud of you!

  94. Robert Burke

    And Mr Craig, because you are well read up on current topics I’m certain this was on your radar…you know, the two-day symposium on Astrobiology at the Library of Congress?
    http://www.loc.gov/loc/kluge/news/nasa-program-2014.html

    The Twitter tag was priceless #PreparetoDiscover

    But, we all know the Library is just a bunch of wackjob conspiracy nuts wearing tinfoil and smoking doberman.

    I thought Day 2 was a better lineup than day one, I’ve always wondered if we should baptize aliens? The speech on alien minds is actually quite fascinating…if you can handle nut jobs of course discussing things that have no chance of being grounded in reality.

    Day 2 – September 19, 2014
    9:00 – 9:10

    Setting the Stage

    “Astrobiology and Society” – Steven J. Dick, NASA/Library of Congress Chair
    9:10 – 12:10

    Philosophical Impact: How Do We Comprehend The Philosophical and Theological Challenges Raised by Discovery?
    Moderator / Chair, Constance Bertka, Science and Society Resources

    “Potential Roles for Life and Intelligence in the Evolution of the Cosmos” – Mark Lupisella, NASA

    This paper explores speculations for how life and intelligence might ultimately be related to the future evolution of the universe (and possibly the “metaverse”), and how such speculations might be related to present and future worldviews, including influences of evolutionary psychology and cultural evolution. Concepts such as terraforming, “astro-engineering” and “cosmo-engineering” will be explored, as well as potential roles for culture, morality, and value theory more generally.

    “The Moral Status of Non-Human Organisms” – Carol Cleland (University of Colorado Boulder) and Elspeth Wilson (University of Pennsylvania)

    What are our ethical responsibilities towards alien forms of life? Prevailing accounts of the intrinsic moral worth of nonhuman organisms are problematically anthropocentric. This presentation argues that the best strategy is to augment our fanciful thought-experiments with actual case studies of nonhuman forms of Earth life whose moral status is ambiguous—organisms such as cephalopods (e.g., octopuses) and certain hymenopterans (e.g., honey bees) displaying what seem to be morally relevant characteristics although they differ from us anatomically, behaviorally, and in social structure.

    “Alien Minds” – Susan Schneider, University of Connecticut

    Drawing from the computational paradigm in cognitive science, thinking about the technological singularity and philosophical work on the nature of consciousness, this talk comments on what alien minds might be like. Ray Kurzweil and others have argued that humans will evolve into non-biological life forms during a technological singularity; from scientific and cultural trends, this is in fact a serious possibility for our species.

    Break

    “Astrobiology and Theology,” – Robin Lovin, Center for Theological Inquiry, Princeton, N.J.

    Theology is an integrative and interpretative discipline whose task is to make sense of ordinary experience and scientific knowledge, in light of traditions that provide a moral orientation that transcends the particular time and place in which we find ourselves. The possibility of life on other worlds and speculations about the nature of that life are inherently interesting questions for theology, because they test the limits of the integrative and interpretative ideas by which we relate ourselves to the whole of reality and to God. Astrobiology gives a new empirical dimension to these ancient theological questions, because it suggests that the diversity within uniformity of living things is so great that we cannot definitively conclude from the basic facts of chemistry and physics whether life is inevitable or accidental, and whether life develops inexorably toward intelligence, or whether it has done so just this once.

    “Would You Baptize an Extraterrestrial?” – Guy Consolmagno, SJ Vatican Observatory

    This frequently-asked question raises interesting issues not only for what it means to be a creature of this universe in need of baptism, but also in terms of when it is appropriate, or not, to “baptize” modern science and its understanding of our universe in the light of our religious beliefs. How can the question be re-framed to better illuminate its hidden assumptions, especially about the significance of our belief systems, in the face of an overwhelmingly large universe?

    Discussion + Q&A
    12:10 – 1:45

    Lunch
    1:45 – 4:05

    Practical Impact: How Should Society Cope with Discovery?
    Moderator / Chair, Jennifer Wiseman, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

    “Is there Anything New about Astrobiology and Society?” – Jane Maienschein, Arizona State University

    At the intersections of biology and society, scholars have long been exploring ethical, legal, policy, economic, and other social issues, while also placing emerging science in the context of history and philosophy of science. The question here is: is there anything new under the sun? Are there special features of astrobiology that call for new thinking? This paper begins to frame the question and point to possible answers, but does not pretend to answer it; that task should be undertaken by a larger group.

    “Searching for Extraterrestrial Life: Coping with Discovery by Considering Potential Risks” – Margaret Race, SETI Institute

    Even as we search for life beyond Earth, it is clear that a verified discovery could challenge foundational understanding and interpretations in many fields. This presentation adopts a risk-management perspective to examine issues and questions associated with searches for microbial, complex or intelligent life beyond Earth. It also highlights areas where societal concerns may arise in the form of protests or demands for public participation in decision making about applied science and technology.

    “An Astrobiological App for a Technological Society” – Eric Chaisson, Harvard University

    The search for life in the Universe grants us greater awareness of our own problems here on Earth. Without any unambiguous evidence yet that extraterrestrial life exists elsewhere in the Universe, we have a moral obligation to ensure that intelligent life on our planet does not end. Astrobiology points us toward, nay demands, a solar economy. It also suggests a potential solution to the Fermi paradox, based on a principle of cosmic selection that limits technological intelligence in time as well as in space: those advanced life-forms anywhere in the Universe that adopt the energy of their parent star will likely survive, and those that don’t, won’t.

    Break

    “The Allure of Alien Life: From Microbes to Intelligence” – Linda Billings, National Institute of Aerospace

    This paper will consider popular representations of extraterrestrial life – both single-celled and intelligent – in their cultural context. How does the cultural environment affect these representations? How does the political economy of the mass media industry shape these representations? How does the human psyche influence these representations? Finally, this paper will address a question of value judgment: is it more productive to engage people’s interest in astrobiology by blurring the boundaries between ET and ETI or by explaining the differences between the two pursuits?

    Discussion + Q&A

  95. Joseph Buchman Post author

    The Good Folks at SETI seem to be into the issue as well. Note their 30+ years of running the

    “CONTACT: CULTURES OF THE IMAGINATION” conferences.

    See: http://www.contact-conference.com

    “CONTACT is a unique interdisciplinary conference which brings together some of the foremost international social and space scientists, science fiction writers and artists to exchange ideas, stimulate new perspectives and encourage serious, creative speculation about humanity’s future … onworld and offworld. Each year we meet to promote the integration of human factors into space age research and policy, emphasize the interaction of the Arts and Sciences and their technologies, and develop ethical approaches in cross-cultural contact, whenever and wherever it occurs. “

  96. Robert Burke

    Waldo- these are three issues I have decided off season to pursue. In an election year I will keep to mainstream issues so the party can continue to look like everyone else.
    Now…go away.

  97. Waldo TerraFirma

    “Alex Jones would make a great candidate for President. He has a rabid cult following and has already proven ability to raise money.”

    Rabid…in this case is literally true. Alex Jones bites his supporters and gives them rabies, and as part of their cult rituals they go around biting other people and spreading the rabies. It’s a growing movement, bro.

    Illuminati propaganda site wikipedia describes rabies thusly: The period between infection and the first flu-like symptoms is typically 2 to 12 weeks in humans. Incubation periods as short as four days and longer than six years have been documented, depending on the location and severity of the contaminated wound and the amount of virus introduced. Signs and symptoms may soon expand to slight or partial paralysis, anxiety, insomnia, confusion, agitation, abnormal behavior, paranoia, terror, and hallucinations, progressing to delirium. The person may have hydrophobia. Hydrophobia (“fear of water”) is the historic name for rabies. It refers to a set of symptoms in the later stages of an infection in which the person has difficulty swallowing, shows panic when presented with liquids to drink, and cannot quench his or her thirst. Saliva production is greatly increased, and attempts to drink, or even the intention or suggestion of drinking, may cause excruciatingly painful spasms of the muscles in the throat and larynx. This can be attributed to the fact that the virus multiplies and assimilates in the salivary glands of the infected animal for the purpose of further transmission through biting.

    Clearly, these signs of rabies can be observed among many regular Alex Jones listeners.

  98. Waldo TerraFirma

    What the space lizard illuminati puppets at NWOpedia aren’t telling you is that rabies is not the disease…it’s the cure, man! Go out and get bit, and start biting others…NOW! And when the space lizard agents in the white coats come for you…you must resist! Under no circumstances let them stick you with their needles. They just want to turn you into another mind numbed puppet for the NWO illuminati and the space lizards, bro. Don’t let them do it!

  99. Waldo TerraFirma

    “Now…go away.”

    Mr. Burke…you are truly an hero to me… I will keep following you no matter what anyone says. I know that you have to tell me to go away for your own safety, because the space lizards and their illuminati agents are threatening your life but I know you really want me to keep following you and I will keep doing it no matter what you say. Together we will keep biting more and more people and spreading rabies until we take over! They can’t get us all!

  100. Jill Pyeatt

    Thank you for your side of the story, Mr. Burke. I hope you had a chance to read through the comments and realize that not everyone is as closed-minded as Andy Craig. Although this isn’t a topic I know anything about, if there’s good suspicion that our government has been activiely engaged in covering this stuff up, I’d like to know what’s going on as well

  101. Waldo TerraFirma

    Thank you for being so open minded, Mrs. Pyeatt. Mr. Burke is an hero. And you are a heroine in my book too, or is it heroin? I always mix them up with each other. Anyway, an injection of truth is the only way to fight off the mind controlling effects of chemtrails. That, and rabies. Keep spreading rabies, and keep spreading the truth!

  102. Robert Burke

    Hi Jill-
    I was happy to see openness to the idea that government secrecy on any issue is inherently bad for the people. This issue has more stigma than any other exactly because of how important it is.

    Thanks for your openness….

  103. Joseph Buchman Post author

    Jill,

    The term “believer” is inappropriate, IMO. An intentional pejorative. The question is — Is there sufficient, credible evidence to warrant Congressional protection of witnesses and then Hearings (in that order). Among those witnesses are more than a handful of former military officers, including some of the best we have had — those in charge of our nuclear weapons.

    See for example

    http://www.ufohastings.com/articles/ufo-activated-one-of-his-icbms-twice

    Also, consider the fact that in 1947, Roswell was home to the only nuclear military unit on the planet — these are the guys who bombed Japan. Yet they, according to our government, mistook a very common weather balloon for an alien saucer. (The Project Mogul experiments use the very same balloons, so the admission by the government that the weather balloon was a lie designed to cover Project Mogul (another set of weather balloons) is absurd).

    If there was nothing unconventional, they you have to wonder why our nuclear military officers have this generations-long, psychological disorder around seeing non-human craft?!?

    Or why the government won’t even let them have their own medical records after they encounter (even touch) such craft?

    http://www.nickpope.net/bentwaters-ufo-incident.htm

    Nick Pope, BTW, is a retired member of the British Ministry of Defence, MOD..

    So no need for suspicion or belief or mysticism — and plenty of room IMO for facts, witnesses, reason and conclusions. Certainly sufficient evidence to warrant the call for whistle blower protection and Hearings that Mr. Burke advocated in the interview that started this thread.

    Or so it seems to me.

  104. Andy Craig

    “First, while I discussed the UFO/Disclosure issue with about half of the candidates I never, not one, brought it up a campaign speech or stop. Never. Zero.”

    No, because then you claimed to have the good sense to realize how bad that would look, which you have apparently lost. Instead we just got the public-lite CTs: chemtrails, black helicopters, 9/11 trooferism, and the Imminent Collapse of Society and Imposition of Martial Law. The alien stuff you saved for those who talked to you to for at least 5 minutes. And a reporter who was supposed to keep it a secret until Obama and the Pope announced the reality of UFO abductions and human-alien hybrids last summer, at which point you were going to win in a landslide.

    “Second, while disparaging my vote total Mr Craig is ignoring that our top vote getter was our Attorney General candidate and he did absolutely nothing, which was just under your facebook effort.”

    ‘Absolutely nothing’ is incorrect. He gave interviews and press releases, and a couple of speeches. Did he actively campaign much? No. But what he did have out there was solid stuff on an issue that was at the top of the news cycle for much of the campaign (police abuse, homicides, militarization, etc.). He was also in a 3-way race instead of a 4- or 5- way race, which is why I correctly predicted from the start that he would be our top vote-getter.

    “Every poll up to just before the election showed Walker and Mary Burke NECK AND NECK. If I had a dime for every time I heard “I like your ideas but I have to vote for XXXXX or YYYYY wins” I could have fully funded my campaign.”

    Well, that and if you had actually accepted contributions and had any campaign staff to fund (aside from myself, effectively), instead of waiting to ride the tidal wave of Bob-Was-Right-About-Aliens into the governor’s mansion. Which, by the way, would the other major reason you got <1%, the whole no-fundraising shtick, preferring to depend on party funds and the good graces of local hosts.

    'It was a close race!' is a piss-poor excuse, and hardly as unique to Wisconsin as you seem to think, when your last name alone was supposed to get 1% (on which basis you wanted us to not run any other statewide nominees, which would have left us without the ballot status that was motivation for the party donors who paid to get you on the ballot in the first place). Every other statewide candidate got 2-3% in close races. Our 2012 US Senate nominee got over 2% in a close race against two nominees with much lower negatives than either Walker or Mary Burke. Other Libertarian candidates for Governor in both bigger and smaller states did better in equally close or closer races. The only other two candidates for Governor in the country who got a lower percentage, did so in states with strong third-party opponents, whereas the only competition you had for the non-D/R vote was Dennis Fehr (0.4%). You can disagree about the causes all you want, maybe I'm totally wrong and your tinfoil hat antics weren't part of it because not enough people even heard of you to know. But no matter how you spin it, it was objectively one of the worst performances for Governor in the nation. You didn't just not win, which I'm not at all complaining about: you actively *lost* votes.

    "Third, I did not discuss this during the campaign but what happens after the election is my choice and my free speech."

    You're absolutely right about this (except for the big asterisks on the 'not during the campaign' part noted above). You can say whatever you want, the party be damned. If you only did so in your personal capacity, and not "the Libertarian nominee for Governor", then I wouldn't care. But so long as that phrase and "ET/UFO disclosure" appear together, I'll be there to make clear that this crap is not representative of the Libertarian Party of Wisconsin and the message we wish to present to the voters.

    "IMHO Sheehan deserves our attention and respect. You want to be a lawyer? Try and be as brave as this one."

    I'm sure you think the Dear Leader of your UFO cult is entitled to respect. So I'll be perfectly clear: I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. Same goes for Icke, Jones, and whatever other charlatan preachers of fear, falsehood, and paranoia you care to trot out.

    "He’s done a hell of a lot more than a shift at Walgreens."

    Not all of us have the luxury of being unemployed and bankrupt. But I'll keep this in mind next time you try to wax poetic about sympathizing with underemployed youth affected by the higher education bubble and bad economy. And I have accomplished something- without this mere retail clock-puncher your name (and four other statewide nominees including myself) wouldn't have even been on the ballot (who the hell do you think checked and coordinated and turned in all those petition signatures from Milwaukee and kept our petition drive from falling apart in total failure and our paid petitioner from walking away in disgust? The ballot access fairy?). Given how that turned out, maybe I should just stick with 'Walgreens' on the resume.

    "You have absolutely no background in economics or markets to make the statement “(along with his associated theory of imminent economic collapse, caused by alien disclosure of course)” not to mention the breach of confidence."

    It's not confidential when you're putting it out there publicly, not to mention telling every Libertarian from Superior to Kenosha. And forgive me for not bowing to the superior economic credentials of a mid-level insurance wholesaler. Besides, it's never been your economics I take issue with is (even if it's a bit hyperbolic and pessimistic for my taste). It's "The Collapse" with martial law and mass starvation and ET-phobia-provoked civil disturbances that is ridiculous, and has nothing to do with economics and markets (which, as you've pointed out, I'm at least as qualified to talk about as the guy you lost to.)

    "I have chosen three issues that I believe with 100% of my being are true and will be self evident in time garnering me credibility at that time… These are Chem-trails, the collapse, and the UFO cover-up"

    And I want you to repeat that, over and over again, until every Libertarian in Wisconsin knows it as well as I do. You left out 9/11, by the way.

    "I would appreciate some acknowledgement for 5 tours around the state and speaking to over 40 groups thank you Mr Craig. I believe you traveled…where? "

    Unlike you, who lives in the far corner of the state six hours away, I live within 2 hrs of most of the state's population and all of its major cities. So I could make day trips instead of overnight ones, and I did so several times. I wasn't invited to speak as often, because I was running for an office that has four employees instead of to be the chief executive of the state, but I accepted and spoke at well over a dozen events, and gave exactly one less broadcast interview than you did. Which proves… what? That you could have got more votes if you'd stayed home? Probably so.

    "Don’t bring your bad haircut and pasty skin and talk about my credibility as if you walked into rooms and engendered public faith."

    I'll have you know my fine, sexy, white skin (which is more than thick enough for the schoolyard bully tactics CT kooks always fall back on when challenged) and luxurious mane of hair is the result of being 1/16th extraterrestrial, on my maternal grandfather's side. I'm surprised such a world-class expert on human-alien hybrids didn't pick up on this sooner. I figured the neck was a dead giveaway.

  105. Robert Burke

    “I’m sure you think the Dear Leader of your UFO cult is entitled to respect. So I’ll be perfectly clear: I wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire. Same goes for Icke, Jones, and whatever other charlatan preachers of fear, falsehood, and paranoia you care to trot out. ”

    I’ll let the entirety of your posts from top to bottom rest on this comment alone Mr Craig. Daniel Sheehan is not by any stretch Icke, Jones, or an other Charlatan preacher.

    For the rest reading this post I’ll drop in the cases Daniel Sheehan has been Council/Co-Council or Special Council to… you might recognize a few of them and consider for yourself whether you would do him the favor of extinguishing the man if he were on fire.

    Lead Coucil – The Pentagon Papers Case (small potatoes I know)
    Eisenstadt v. Baird (Establishing the right of unmarried to posses contraception)
    In re Pappas: Branzburg v. Hayes, (408 U.S. 665) (1972), (Established the right of Journalists to protect confidential sources – A very very minor case in America History)
    Black Panther 21trial, (Protecting against police corruption in a civil rights case)
    The Watergate burglary case, (Right who cares he brought down a president- he’s a nobody)
    the Wounded Knee trials, (Fought to protect right of American Indians)
    The Silkwood Case, (You Know the case where America was giving 98% bomb grad plutonium to the Israels in complete violation of the non-proliferation agreement)
    Three-Mile Island Incident (PIRC v. Three Mile Island), (Nothing to see here move along)
    American Sanctuary Movement Case (U.S. v. Stacey Lynn Merkt, et al.),
    Greensboro Massacre (Waller v. Butkovich), (You might recall this case against the Klan)
    The Avirgan v. Hull and the Iran-Contra Affair. (Nothing to see here move along)

    When Daniel Sheehan says he has read documents that show a significant and pervasive coverup of the issue he doesn’t become the dear leader of a UFO cult, he becomes someone with a high level of credibility and I choose to believe him.

    You are young Andy and trapped giving a crap what other people think rather than thinking for yourself. Most of the rest of what I discussed was good fun and theory going into my book and nothing else.

    And as for not fundraising you might recall that $200K in advertising was done on my behalf the weekend before the election. There was no amount of money I was going to raise and waste that was going to move the needle in this election. What I did do is cement my positions while not being bought by anyone and spending my own money to campaign which was a massive sacrifice as you know.

    Oh, thank you for reminding me about 9/11. I do take the 3000 deaths and two wars I was talked into supporting seriously. When 25.000 years of experience tell me there are serious issues I pay attention…but keep listening to the glowing box…it’s always going to tell you the truth…it always does right?

  106. Robert Burke

    For those who would like to judge this for yourself here is Daniel Sheehan testifying at the Citizen’s Hearing on his interaction with documents touching on the subject while working on the cases listed above.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bU6Z9cMN78

    Please share your thoughts for Mr Craig, I’m interested to hear if you feel this is a cult leader or a brave constitutional attorney.

  107. paulie

    I’ll have you know my fine, sexy, white skin (which is more than thick enough for the schoolyard bully tactics CT kooks always fall back on when challenged) and luxurious mane of hair is the result of being 1/16th extraterrestrial, on my maternal grandfather’s side. I’m surprised such a world-class expert on human-alien hybrids didn’t pick up on this sooner. I figured the neck was a dead giveaway.

    You damn fool! You are not supposed to reveal that to them! If I have to hear about this breach of protocol from the home office, well, you better believe some serious shit will be rolling down the hill in your direction. Let’s just hope it doesn’t prompt a visit, or, well… I’m sure I don’t need to spell it out for you, do I?

  108. Joseph Buchman Post author

    Sigh,

    Well, I enjoyed “covering” the Consumer Electronics Show for IPR (I may yet upload a reviews of Digital Destiny and Innovative State: How New Technologies Can Transform Government — at least those portions related to Third Parties . . . ).

    Meanwhile, starting next week through the end of the month Cindy and I will be volunteering for the Sundance FIlm Festival here in Park City (my 10th year doing that).

    And you can be certain I WILL cover THIS MOVIE (A documentary, no less) —

    “An alien encounter. A hypothetical visitor arrives from Outer Space. The authorities are immediately alerted – the military, defence and communication advisors, and the United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs. How to deal with this unprecedented event? How to reassure Earth’s inhabitants, who are prone to panic, when you have no previous experience to draw upon?”

    http://twitchfilm.com/2014/12/the-visit-trailer-for-sundance-selected-doc-asks-if-were-ready-for-aliens-to-arrive.html

    Waldo, et al . . . STAY TUNED!

    Meanwhile over at Drudge there is THIS —

    http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2015/01/15/ufo-alien-sighting-nasa

    Really, I mean this stuff is everywhere, not just on IPR!

  109. paulie

    Digital Destiny and Innovative State: How New Technologies Can Transform Government — at least those portions related to Third Parties . . .

    Sounds like an interesting topic.

    Meanwhile, starting next week through the end of the month Cindy and I will be volunteering for the Sundance FIlm Festival here in Park City (my 10th year doing that).

    Not sure if this moview has been or will be at Sundance. I know it was at Cannes. I saw it today.. highly recommended:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_%282014_film%29

    You can find torrents online and the director has said he is OK with it but is seeking donations. The version I watched had subtitles.

  110. Joseph Buchman Post author

    Plays on multiple levels doesn’t it? That said, SHUT UP LITTLE MAN — the documentary, is one of my favorites at Sundance. Looking forward to THE VISIT next week as well.

  111. paulie

    I should also mention, Leviathan, in addition to being a great movie, has a very libertarian theme. Great for any local chapters doing movie/discussion nights.

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