Should Vaccines Be Mandatory? Views from Alternate Party Members

Vaccine 3

There was quite a response to my request for opinions regarding whether vaccines should be mandatory. I was a little surprised that the opinion from almost everyone I heard from was that vaccines were tremendously important, that every child should get them, but that getting the government involved to make them mandatory wasn’t a good idea. The majority of the people I heard from were Libertarian, or libertarians (the difference being that those who are members of the Libertarian party are designated with a capital “L”; those with a small “l” identify with the philosophy, but are not necessarily members of the party). There actually wasn’t much difference in the responses based on party affiliation, but, of course, there was variation among the various personalities.

There has already been a good discussion on my prior article asking for opinions. See this link for that article with comments .

Here are some examples of the pro-vaccine folks:

Bradford Lyttle of the US Pacifist Party

While the United States Pacifist Party (USPP) has not taken an official stand on vaccination, I, as the founder of the party, and its presidential candidate in several elections, do have a position. I believe that vaccination should be mandatory in all cases where the overwhelming preponderance of scientific evidence indicates that they are effective in preventing a disease, and there is little or no evidence that they have adverse side effects. If vaccinations of this kind are not made mandatory, then there is a much greater likelihood that some children will not be vaccinated, may contract the disease, and thereby become carriers that may infect others.–Sincerely, Bradford Lyttle

Roger Tucker –Independent American Party

I believe that the science behind the good value of vaccine use is true. However, I do not trust the people who manufacture the vaccines for the bad ingredients that they cause or can cause to be included in the vaccines. These people have no desire to make everyone live healthier and longer. They want to reduce the population, not increase it. They want to make money off of sick people. The logic that these people use is void of any belief in our Lord and Savior, who is Jesus Christ.

If you use my statement, please quote all of it.

I am an Independent American

Roger Tucker

Mary Ruwart-Libertarian

Should Vaccines Be Mandatory?

With the new surge of measles cases, many people are calling for mandatory (forced) vaccination. At first glance, their arguments seem reasonable. Measles can kill and the vaccine is reportedly about 95% effective. Side effects are claimed to be minimal, although serious outcomes are reported on pp. 6-8 of the package insert that comes with the vaccine, including measles itself.
Even if the vaccine had zero side effects and 100% effectiveness, forcing it upon children would start us down the slippery slope of allowing bureaucrats and politicians to decide what medications we MUST ingest or be injected with. Today’s pharmaceuticals have the power to alter our thinking, libido, and even our desire to live. Some schools already diagnose boisterous children, bored with the one-size-fits-all curriculum, as having some type of disorder, and demand that they be given medications that have serious side effects.
Ultimately, each of us must weigh the risks and benefits of what we eat and how we medicate. Choose wisely, and good health to you and yours!

Gary Chartier-Libertarian

C4SS

Compulsory Vaccinations for Freedom?

The prospect of compulsory vaccination (“Should Obama make vaccines mandatory for all children,” Dr. Manny Alvarez, Fox News, January 30) should trouble even those who think the practice can be defended in principle as a kind of self-defense.
The burgeoning women’s liberation movement of the 1960s emphasized a theme with a prominent American pedigree, powerfully expressed by John Locke, who helped to inspire the Declaration of Independence: The right to own your own body is the most basic of all rights. Proponents of voluntary vaccination stress this right.

Critics argue that, if we can use force to stop a knife-wielding thug, we can use force to stop someone from infecting others, even unintentionally. But at least one cluster of difficulties ought to concern even those who think this argument works (there isn’t space here to talk about why it might not): The negative consequences of a forcible vaccination program would be serious and far-reaching.

Proponents of compulsory vaccination want the government to vaccinate their neighbors. Implementing a large-scale state program of mandatory vaccination would dramatically increase the level of government intrusion in people’s lives.

Like the “war on drugs,” such a program would feature incentives for extensive government monitoring. Pediatricians would confront new reporting requirements. Home-schooling parents would be assessed for compliance. New levels of intrusion would spawn new secondary crimes, as people were punished not only for failing to comply with vaccination mandates but also for failing to provide information needed to implement these mandates. Government agencies would demand new surveillance powers and technologies. Those with state power would find it hard to resist the temptation to seek more power and more budget dollars.

At the same time, mandatory vaccination would create new incentives for what economists call “rent-seeking.” Well-connected businesses would welcome opportunities to boost their profits at the public’s expense. Those that manufacture vaccines, often worried by anticipated profit declines as drug patents expire, would doubtless find reason to lobby — in the public interest, of course — for mandates that would dramatically increase their captive markets. (The Affordable Care Act already requires insurers to provide vaccines at low costs.) More and more illnesses could be expected to be added to the list of those met with compulsory vaccination — enabling these markets to expand without reference to consumer demand. Makers of monitoring technology would surely find multiple opportunities to encourage legislators to boost government contracting opportunities.
Any appeal to “save our children” is likely to be met with hysterical enthusiasm. So the vaccine manufacturers will continue to be protected against liability, as they are now, by federal law. (Taxpayers are on the hook for some injuries in virtue of the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. Not only does this unfairly burden people who aren’t responsible for making or marketing unsafe products, but it reduces the incentive for manufacturers to concern themselves with safety.)

While federal regulation of mandatory vaccines might reduce some dangers, manufacturers’ incentives to keep risks at appropriate levels would be dampened by “regulatory capture.” Those who regulate key industries are usually drawn from those industries’ top executives. And even when regulators come from outside, regulatory agencies typically depend on the regulated industries for information about products, standards of care, and so forth. The kind of regulation we could expect doesn’t inspire confidence, especially where population-wide mandates are concerned.
We could be confident, for instance, that pre-release safety review of vaccines, like those of drugs, would continue to be designed to satisfy regulators rather than to survive exposure during litigation. And where there are billions of dollars to be made, out-and-out fraud is hardly unlikely.

Government bureaucracies predictably seek to expand their own power. Business-government partnerships work to enrich well-connected businesses and their politician allies at the public expense. A mandatory vaccination program could be expected to increase government power and force ordinary people to pay more to influential corporations.

Let’s stick with freedom.

Some people had a strong opinion as to what should happen to children who weren’t vaccinated, although they didn’t think they should be government mandated:

Clayton Hunt-Libertarian

The science is settled on vaccines, no, they don’t cause autism, no, the ingredients aren’t some damning secret, vaccinations are effective and except for in the few rare cases, the only harm is a booboo.

They shouldn’t be mandatory, but they really shouldn’t have to be. The anti-vaccination (or ant-vaxx) is just one of the prominent scientific denial movements today, they just happen to be denying something that has demonstrable, easy to see, and easy to package for mass media consumption consequences, you can blow off starving and malnourished children in Africa due to anti-GMO fear-mongering as a given, you can easily misunderstand or misinterpret climate models and data, you can’t ignore a disease nearly eradicated making a sudden comeback.

The failure of the science and medical community is that they aren’t effective communicators, because most of their focus is on schools,with compulsory attendance, and truancy laws, they haven’t faced market forces to force them to refine their message or package it in a manner that actually communicates the ideas and facts that are necessary to understand the state of our knowledge today without boring a bunch of teenagers.

The solution is that actual scientists refine their message and make it more appealing to combat the quacks, the charlatans, and the tinfoil salesmen. Just because the lie is halfway around the world, doesn’t mean the truth shouldn’t even get it’s pants on.

Clayton Hunt

Libertarian Party of Texas

Leslie Fish-Libertarian

Hi. I’m personally an Anarchist, but since there is no Anarchist party
— except the kind that involves beer — in America, I’ve registered
Libertarian for the last 20 years. Hey, half a loaf is better than none!

My view on vaccines and anti-vaxxers is: if you don’t want to vaccinate
yourself or your kids, that’s fine — but then you must quarantine your
kids, and probably your whole family, for the sake of the public safety.

That means you can’t send your kids to the public schools; you’ll have
to home-school them. You can’t let your kids (or yourself, if
unvaccinated) go outside the house, let alone anywhere near other
children, without wearing at least a breather-mask, if not a complete
moon-suit.

Or you can remove your family to some isolated patch of land — maybe a
small island — where there are no other people except your fellow
anti-vaxxers. With a good Internet connection you could work online
jobs, do your banking online, and arrange to have goods and mail
air-dropped to you.

Or, for that matter, you can emigrate to some third-world country where
nobody but the rich are vaccinated, and nobody will force vaccination on
you or your family. Then you can go about freely, assured that everyone
else is as safe from vaccinations as you.

There are always choices. They all have consequences.

–Leslie Fish <;)))>< Reason Magazine, which is generally considered a libertarian site, has posted many articles about the current vaccine discussion. Here is a discussion of a belief that I ran across a few times, that anyone receiving public assistance be required to have vaccines to receive those benefits:

Keep Vaccine Choices So Long As Families Pay Their Own Way

Also:

Jed Ziggler-Independent Libertarian

The solution: for once our bloated welfare state comes in handy. If you don’t want to have your kids vaccinated, that’s your right, but you may not send your children to government schools, you will not be eligible for most forms of social welfare including SNAP and WIC, you will not be eligible for subsidies under the ACA program, and your child may be ineligible for government-backed student loans. Do the right and responsible thing for your kids, or you don’t get to suckle from the government teat.

Another topic that received discussion was that of who should make decisions regarding vaccinations:

Jonathan Jaech-Libertarian

What Libertarians should be doing is insisting that all medical choices are, in fundamental principle, solely the province of the patient – even if those choices are NOT the choices approved by the “experts” whoever they are. Not the parent, not the state, not the doctor, not corporations making vaccines, not the benevolent experts at any Federal or State department: only the patient. Any person making medical choices that create an unreasonable risk of harm is responsible for the actual harm caused by those choices, just as vaccine providers should be liable for negligence in preparation of vaccines and doctors should be liable for negligence in advising a patient to vaccinate or not. If the patient is incapable of understanding what choices are available, special rules can apply obviously; the basic approach should be to identify the closest capable patient advocate/temporary decision maker based on the patient’s personal relationships.

Andrew Napolitano-libertarian

The issue, according to [Rand] Paul, is: WHO OWNS YOUR BODY? This is a question the government does not want to answer truthfully, because if it does, it will sound like Big Brother in George Orwell’s novel “1984.” That’s because the government believes it owns your body.

Paul and no less an authority than the U.S. Supreme Court have rejected that concept. Under the natural law, because you retain the rights inherent in your birth that you have not individually given away to government, the government does not own your body.

Rather, you do. And you alone can decide your fate with respect to the ingestion of medicine. What about children? Paul argues that parents are the natural and legal custodians of their children’s bodies until they reach maturity or majority, somewhere between ages 14 and 18, depending on the state of residence.

What do the states have to do with this? Under our Constitution, the states, and not the federal government, are the guardians of public health. That is an area of governance not delegated by the states to the feds. Of course, you’d never know this to listen to the debate today in which Big Government politicians, confident in the science, want a one-size-fits-all regimen.

Most people believed that the decisions be made by the child’s parent or guardian. Several people suggested, however, that the parent might be too emotionally involved to be able to make the right decision.

Joshua Katz-Libertarian

…intense emotions that can cloud judgment, such as needles being scary, are part of why someone might argue that parents can’t make this decision rationally

Most states require vaccinations to enroll children in school, but they accept exclusions based on religious objections or medical reasons. There are two states, Mississippi and West Virginia, that have laws very close to making vaccines mandatory. Mississippi, by far, has the highest percentage of children vaccinated, which is not well-received by everyone.

Our America Initiative, an organization headed by Gary Johnson, the 2012 Libertarian Presidential nominee, supports Mississippi Parents for Vaccination Rights.

There were some people who didn’t think vaccines were good for everyone.

Here are a couple links provided to me from Beth Duensing-, Libertarian:

A discussion of “herd immunity”

Government Has Paid Out 3 Billion Dollars to Vaccine Injured Americans

I received a couple more links for this category:

Debunking autism link debunker

Kelly Gneiting of Independent American Party

I can easily speak for the Independent American Party on this issue.

Vaccinations should be voluntary. Taking vaccinations shows an incredible (and perhaps foolish) trust in government. Just ask the American People via approval rates of Congress or our President, if they trust our government.

Danger of vaccinations are well documented. And enjoy your free internet until the time comes when this information is forbidden from being viewed.

Thanks,
Kelly Gneiting
National Chairman,

The most poignant opinion I received was from Mike Seebeck, a Libertarian in Colorado

I’m vaccine-damaged, courtesy of the MMR shot in the 1970s. It took me almost 15 years to correctly diagnose, treat, and recover from the damage (although not completely to this day), and I was lucky it wasn’t any worse than it could have been. It’s taken me 25 more years to take that diagnosis and figure out exactly how the damage happened. As such, I’ve done extensive research on the immune system. I’ve learned the biomechanics of immune responses at the cellular level and plenty about anatomy and biophysics—and my wife is the biologist! I’ve asked doctors trick questions about this over the years, and almost always I get back the wrong answers. A vaccine given to my wife can be fatal, and that’s no exaggeration. Naturally, I’m opposed to them, based on the combination of my own life experience and lengthy research, which has zero to do with celebrities, media propaganda, mass hysterics, or pharmaceutical indoctrination and fraud.

As an individualist libertarian, I hold that we own our own bodies, and that we have the absolute right and final say over what we inhale, inject, ingest, and intake into our own bodies. That right includes great responsibility to make sure that what goes in is not something bad for it, unless one chooses to do so nonetheless. But that also means that no government can compel, force, or coerce me into taking any vaccine, either. My freedom and liberty starts with my own self.

You hear non-libertarians make the argument that we don’t have the right to endanger anyone else by refusing these shots. To them I say this: nobody has the right to not be endangered. Life is dangerous by definition, and the guy walking past you on the sidewalk may be a psycho mass murderer or a harmless Forrest Gump, and you simply don’t know. You also don’t know if that kid walking with them is vaccinated and shedding a virus, or is unvaccinated and perfectly healthy, or if they are sick as a dog with a disease, vaccinated or not. It is inherent upon each individual to minimize the risks in their own lives—that’s part of the responsibility of freedom, and it’s a moral obligation to one’s self and to those they love around them. But it is NOT a right to impose anyone else’s belief of what is “safe” and “for the common good” on anyone else. The “public” is nothing more than a collection of individuals, after all. Your idea of what is “safe” could be maximally “unsafe” and wind up killing me. No thanks!

To everyone, libertarian or not, I say this: Don’t believe the hype and hysterics: do your own research, follow the money, understand the issue historically, biologically, and politically, and make your own decisions. Above all, support both your own right to do so, and the same right of anyone else to do the same.

Also, I had not heard from any Green Party members, and I couldn’t find anything in their platform regarding this topic. However, while I was proofreading this article, a commenter on IPR left this comment along with the following link
:

Zeleni-Green Party

This Green is pro-vaccination and generally supportive of measures to require them. There was a a time (nearly fifteen years ago) when I was critical of vaccines because autism, mercury, yaddayadda. But that’s been debunked and I now yield to science. Not vaccinating not only puts that child at risk, but younger children and others with compromised immune system. At a bare minimum, if you want your child to attend a public school, they should be required to have their vaccines (except for medical issues as raised by physician). It appears that most Greens agree:

isidewithpoll

If the above poll is accurate, then the Green Party stands as the only alternative party that overwhelmingly approves making vaccines mandatory.


I received two more articles that are worth noting here, but don’t really fit into the outline of this article. I am giving you the links here, and I highly suggest you take the time to read both of them.

Dan Phillips, MD-Constitution Party

Insurance Giant Obeys the Hivemind

Thomas Knapp-Libertarian

Rule by Experts is More Dangerous than Measles

84 thoughts on “Should Vaccines Be Mandatory? Views from Alternate Party Members

  1. Mark Herd

    Heavy stuff ……. perhaps our elected should be banned on fb for his remark that may be considered offensive to those with …… never mind, I better keep quiet or I might get….But then again what if someone reading this with mental illness where to take offense to the chairs remarks.

  2. Investigate_Vaccine_Management

    Consumers should recognize the difference between “debunked” and “shouted down” by well-funded industries and government agencies. Especially when a senior scientist from the CDC has now admitted that vaccines have caused, and are causing, health damage in a subset of the population, a la Pink Disease in the 1930s-1950s.
    http://vimeo.com/104141199
    “You know, in the United States the only vaccine it’s still in is for pregnant women. I can say confidently, I do think thimerosal causes tics. So, I don’t know why they still give it to pregnant women. Like, that’s the last person I would give mercury to. ‘Thimerosal from vaccines cause tics’… you start a campaign and you just make that your mantra.
    “Do you think a pregnant mother would want to take a vaccine that they knew caused tics? Absolutely not! I would never give my wife a vaccine that I thought caused tics.
    “I can say, tics are four times more prevalent in kids with autism. There is biologic plausibility right now to say that thimerosal causes autism-like features.”

  3. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I believe Mr. Sarwark’s comment above was a response to our Nazi troll’s rant, which someone thankfully finally removed.

  4. paulie

    I see it in the trash now. Was catching up on some other things and then taking a nap, so I missed it. Thanks to whoever took out the trash. And thanks to Jill for compiling an interesting read!

  5. paulie

    Update from Mary Ruwart:

    In response to an earlier post “Should Vaccines Be Mandatory?” several readers expressed concern. They wondered whether people who didn’t vaccinate might endanger others with compromised immune systems who couldn’t vaccinate, such as the elderly or infants.

    People with poor immune function are more likely to be exposed to the flu and/or pneumonia, than measles from an unvaccinated person. Many thousands of Americans get the flu annually, while less than 200 people each year develop measles. The flu can lead to pneumonia also, making these two infections the 9th highest cause of death in the U.S.

    The measures that compromised individuals take to protect themselves from these more common, deadly threats (e.g., avoiding crowds), would protect them from measles as well. These precautions are necessary, because the effectiveness of annual flu shots can be as low as 10%.

    Contrary to popular opinion, the measles vaccine doesn’t always work either. One half of the Canadian cases of measles come from vaccinated individuals; in the U.S., about one-third of people in a measles outbreak have received one or two doses of the vaccine.

    Continue reading at http://www.ruwart.com/blog/shouldnt-vaccinate-dont-endanger-others.html

  6. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Here’s a personal recommendation from me, which, of course, wasn’t appropriate to put in the article:

    Breastfeeding will allow the mother’s immunities to last a little longer in an infant. This is another benefit of breastfeeding that might help before a baby’s old enough for vaccines.

  7. MikeforTruthandFreedoms.

    Forcing a medical procedure on anyone against their will or without the express permission of a parent/guardian is 100% wrong. To be free means you are able to say no and that is accepted. By violating a person’s right to say no, especially to a medical procedure is wrong. Not only is it wrong but it can be considered assault and they can consider their life being threatened. If someone tried to inject you with a vial full of HIV virus, and said it was mandatory, you would fight to the death to keep that needle out of your arm. There is no difference. It’s my right to say no to the needle and if anyone violates my right, then I will get militant and consider it an act of aggression to myself or my family. Forced injections are morally wrong and should not even be considered.

  8. David

    http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/2290670-whre-do-you-stand-forced-vaccinations-5.html

    Here is a good tread on the subject. About the middle of the page is a good comment. States like Montana are considering more mandated shots for student before they can enter school. Several people said we need to get rid of the exemptions for concerned parents.
    http://laws.leg.mt.gov/legprd/LAW0203W$BSRV.ActionQuery?P_SESS=20151&P_BLTP_BILL_TYP_CD=HB&P_BILL_NO=158&P_BILL_DFT_NO=&P_CHPT_NO=&Z_ACTION=Find&P_ENTY_ID_SEQ2=&P_SBJT_SBJ_CD=&P_ENTY_ID_SEQ=

    HB 158 was heard today. This got amended in the House, and one provision to give the Department of Health rule making between legislative sessions was taken out. More mandatory shots were added. The MTLP chair spoke in opposition and supported more opt out policies for students and parents.

  9. Seebeck

    “I was lucky it wasn’t any worse than it could have been.”

    I missed that bad line. It should have said, “I was lucky it wasn’t any worse than it was.”

    My error. I hope people understood what I meant.

  10. Robert Capozzi

    mr: People with poor immune function are more likely to be exposed to the flu and/or pneumonia, than measles from an unvaccinated person. Many thousands of Americans get the flu annually, while less than 200 people each year develop measles. The flu can lead to pneumonia also, making these two infections the 9th highest cause of death in the U.S.

    me: This and the rest sidestep the point, and uses razzle-dazzle numbers. To cite that less than 200 get the measles strengthens the case for vaccination rather than weakening it.

    I just question the stat that “many thousands of Americans get the flu annually….” It’s not millions?

    So, I looked it up. I found this: “According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), 5 to 20 percent of the population is infected with the flu each year in the United States. The CDC also reports that in the United States, more than 200,000 people are hospitalized with the flu and about 36,000 people die from flu complications each year.”

    So, make that 10s of millions.

    Fail.

  11. Robert Capozzi

    It’s generally best to work from the general to the specific. Is it appropriate for civil society to protect itself from highly contagious, deadly diseases? I’d say yes. Can civil society quarantine someone with such a disease? I’d say yes, if the risks are unacceptable. Can civil society require vaccinations if the disease is highly contagious and deadly and the vaccine is sufficiently effective? I’m highly biased against that, but possibly.

  12. langa

    The article by Dan Phillips is fantastic, and makes some excellent points that are applicable to far more than just the vaccine debate.

  13. VeniceBeachPress.com Mark Herd

    Sorry Jill P. As the leader of our party, I find the chairs comment potentially offensive to those with mental illness. He IS the leader of our party. On the otherhand, you, beau cain and jonathan jaech censor me on fb for criticizing the convention being in Nevada and the process by which that came about. Paulee used the word associated with…..bs on an IPR post. Your husband used the word associated with a hole on fb. So who are the hypocrits who cant handle criticism, accountability, transparancy and change. Do you not appreciate that I spent countless hours building lplac a great website (www.lplac.info) because jonathan jaechs lplac site had no updates in 6 months! I organized the largest Neighborhood Council in Los Angeles and was successful after 5 attempts before mine, failed. I ran for Los Angeles City Council and recieved over 26% of the vote with no money. Perhaps we should all get vaccinated and see if that helps. If there is a vaccine for saving lives Ill consider it. If theres a vaccine to instill common sense in hypocrits then I’ll become an investor.

  14. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Mark, Nicholas’ comment had to do with a troll’s comment that was taken down. We have a Nazi troll problem on this site.

    You were blocked on every single FB CA page by each respective administrator because of your hideous, inexusable, horrible, sociopathic behavior. Threatening us and the LP CA last week is what finally did you in.

    Grow up and take responsiblity for yourself. Now I’m done talking to you. Any more talking to me will be done through my attorney.

  15. Jose Sanchez

    Censorship, no way, really? Hey, come register to vote as a libertarian, we censor? Who does that?

  16. william b. keith

    ABSOLUTELY. Every person should be required to be vaccinated against every contagious disease possible not only to protect him but everyone else in the community regardless of his religion or opinion.

  17. Marc Romain

    Don’t tell me what I have to or can’t put into my body. Definitely, don’t screen from me what you think I should not hear. It appears that Herd’s pejorative characterizations of you, your actions and results in regards to what even a casual observer would notice as a marked decline in Libertarian party membership and influence, has blinded you to the phenomenal good and great potential that his presence brings. Check out this video out of him fighting for a very Libertarian cause, marijuana. This guy just volunteered and built you and Jonathan Jaech a great website (www.lplac.info). Please do the right thing, restore his ability to post on Facebook.

    http://youtu.be/VuDfCeU_KoQ

  18. redphillips

    I posted this in the other vaccine thread before I realized it probably better belongs here:

    Thomas Sowell comes down on the side of vaccine mandates. While he is evenhanded with the science, his implicit endorsement of vaccine mandates is disappointing, as Sowell has always been viewed as a more libertarianish conservative than many.

    http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2015/02/10/measles-vaccines-and-autism-n1954967

    While Sowell is evenhanded with the science, I do think a case can be made that there has been an increase in Autism that isn’t just definitional. And it is perfectly reasonable to believe that this increase could be related to some sort of environmental toxin, but this toxin doesn’t have to be vaccines.

  19. paulie

    Sorry Jill P. As the leader of our party, I find the chairs comment potentially offensive to those with mental illness.

    LOL. Nazi troll is trolling. Not necessarily mentally ill. Just being an asshole and disruptive on purpose. Yes, this is private property, so we have every right to kick out people who do that, and we do. Freedom of association includes freedom to not associate, and we choose not to associate IPR with comments like the ones left by the nazi troll. This isn’t public property. I hope everyone is clear on that. If you are not, you can be unclear about it somewhere else.

  20. paulie

    Paulee used the word associated with…..bs on an IPR post.

    No idea what exactly you are talking about. Copy and paste might be your friend here, including on my name. It’s not that hard to spell paulie, and if it is, just call me Paul, or Mr. Frankel, whatever works best for you. If you mean that I said we have the right not to associate with intentionally disruptive comments or to kick out trolls and intentionally disruptive people and comments from IPR, yes, we do, have, and will continue to. This is private property and we absolute have the right to choose who we associate with and who we don’t. Don’t like it? Go somewhere else. It really is that simple. And no, we aren’t going to argue about it, either.

  21. paulie

    Censorship, no way, really? Hey, come register to vote as a libertarian, we censor? Who does that?

    Government, by definition. What private property, including privately owned businesses and websites, do is not censorship, it’s property rights, also by definition. And incidentally, we can see your IP address, so changing your screen name and email address won’t help. We’re also pretty good at spotting patterns, so if you change your IP address as well, it won’t keep you from getting booted for very long.

  22. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt Post author

    February 10, 2015 at 12:06 pm

    Mark, Nicholas’ comment had to do with a troll’s comment that was taken down. We have a Nazi troll problem on this site.”

    I don’t think that it is a “Nazi” troll, as in some random, independent person who holds Nazi views. All of the evidence points to this being a government troll, or a group of government trolls. The person or persons involved may or may not really be a “Nazi,” but their true purpose is to sabotage the minor party and independent movement, and more specifically, the Libertarian Party and movement, in this country.

    It is a known and admitted fact that the US government, as well as other governments around the world (the United Kingdom, Canada, Israel, Russia, China, etc…) hire people to troll online. They post government propaganda, attempt to create disrupt groups, smear activists, steer conversations, etc…

    Why should anyone believe that Independent Political Report is immune from government trolls?

  23. paulie

    Definitely, don’t screen from me what you think I should not hear.

    You have every right to hear whatever you choose to hear, on your own property, or the property of those who allow whatever it is that you want to hear. If I don’t want a schizophrenic off his meds yelling at people or at voices in his head in the middle of my restaurant at lunch time I will give him the boot. If I don’t want to talk to a Jehovah’s witness at my door, I will close it in his face. And the same rules absolutely apply to privately owned websites and facebook groups. Before you tell me that everything on facebook is property of facebook, yes, I do have the right to kick your ass out of my motel room or apartment, even though I don’t own the motel or apartment complex. Same thing with facebook groups. Hope everyone is clear on this.

    Fair warning: IPR is not going to be a place to carry over the proxy fight from facebook. Anyone who wants to do that here will find themselves similarly kicked off IPR, and at our discretion, have past comments all removed as well. I hope that is clear as well.

  24. paulie

    I don’t think that it is a “Nazi” troll, as in some random, independent person who holds Nazi views. All of the evidence points to this being a government troll, or a group of government trolls. The person or persons involved may or may not really be a “Nazi,” but their true purpose is to sabotage the minor party and independent movement, and more specifically, the Libertarian Party and movement, in this country.

    We don’t care if he is actually a nazi or not. He claims to be a nazi, but the operative word is actually troll. Nazi troll is just our shorthand way of referring to who it is.

    Why should anyone believe that Independent Political Report is immune from government trolls?

    I don’t think we are. Neither is the LP.


    Now, please let’s move on from discussions of trolling and speech rights (we have separate threads for that if someone wants to continue that discussion) and get back to the vaccination topic.

  25. Andy

    “attempt to create disrupt groups,”

    Should read, “attempt to create disruptions in groups…”

  26. Joshua Fauver

    I’m personally in favor of mandatory vaccinations. While I do believe in habeas corpus, self ownership, and the right of people to choose what they do or do not inject, ingest, take, or put (or not inject, ingest, take, or put) into their own bodies, I have always believed that our right to do or not to do something ends when it begins to infringe on the rights of others. In this case the decision not to vaccinate has dire consequences not just for those who choose not to vaccinate, but for others who are in contact with those not vaccinated. We have to seriously look at the repercussions of this “anti vax” movement. We’ve seen outbreaks of preventable illnesses that were all but eradicated. In 2014 we saw 13 measles outbreaks, the most since 1996. Just yesterday there was a story in the WSJ with the headline “U.S. Measles Cases for 2015 Rise 18.6% Over Past Week” Lets not forget the whooping cough outbreak in California in 2010. Or the whooping cough outbreak in Texas just last year. We have to ask ourselves, very seriously, what’s next? Polio? The decision not to vaccinate doesn’t just have implications for the people not being vaccinated, it has implications for everyone. I don’t think anyone has the “right” to bring back deadly and preventable viruses and diseases that were once all but eradicated.

  27. Robert Capozzi

    jf: I don’t think anyone has the “right” to bring back deadly and preventable viruses and diseases that were once all but eradicated.

    me: Well framed. I’d like to hear how an anti-vaxxer responds.

  28. Nicholas Sarwark

    My initial comment was in response to a deleted comment that sounded mentally ill, specifically paranoid schizophrenic. It was intended as a reminder that the discussion was about whether vaccines should be mandatory, not about whether they were a tool of a Zionist conspiracy to subjugate the Aryans.

    I don’t see what’s offensive about that, but I’m sorry if you took offense.

  29. paulie

    I think it may have been someone who is actually struggling with mental health issues and took offense that we were discriminating against the … sorry, forgot the non-offensive term for crazy people. Otherwise, it may have been someone trying to stir more trouble up by pretending to be offended at discrimination against the mentally ill. While the original poster whose comments were removed may or may not be actually mentally ill, and may or may not actually be a bigot, or a government plant as some have speculated, or whatever else this person(s) is/are, the bottom line is that the comments were disruptive and were removed for that reason, and that we will continue to remove comments that are either themselves disruptive (in our judgement) or coming from people that we judge to have a history of being intentionally disruptive here. Hopefully this is the last comment made on any aspect of this tangent in this thread.

    Again, if anyone would like to continue to discuss the issues of free speech, trolling, property rights in regards to freedoms of speech and (dis)association, association/dissociation rights, recommended policies as to same, or how to handle comments by the mentally ill or apparently mentally ill folks who sometimes try to stick around here and be disruptive, please take it to http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2013/04/the-trouble-with-trolls/ or somewhere off IPR.

  30. Marc Romain

    The problem with mandatory vaccines is they are of varying effectiveness, and have properties not directly related to pathogens like adjuvants and preservatives that have negative qualities, of which some have substantial effects. What if we don’t want to drink the Koolaid? Who decides?

  31. Robert Capozzi

    mr, excellent points. There IS the practical question of effectiveness.

    But let’s take an extreme example: If someone has a highly contagious disease — say the Plague — and they refuse to be treated or quarantined. Is it appropriate for civil society to isolate what amounts to a ticking time bomb walking amongst us?

  32. Joshua Fauver

    I’d be inclined to agree with you, except that your decision doesn’t have implications for just you. It has implications for everyone you come in contact with. Again, the consequences of not vaccinating are already being felt. Whooping cough and measles are already seeing a resurgence. These are preventable contagious, and possibly fatal illnesses that are making a comeback due to people’s decisions not to vaccinate. But these aren’t the only vaccines people are choosing not to get. Are we going to allow outbreaks of other preventable and fatal diseases, like meningococcal meningitis, mumps, polio, rubella, rotavirus, diphtheria, and hepatitis A and B, to ravage this country? Are we going to allow preventable diseases that were at one time all but eradicated to come back and to kill untold thousands (tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands? Millions? Who knows?!) because people simply don’t want to vaccinate? My opinion always has been that your right to do or not to do something ends once it begins to infringe on the rights of others. When your decision not to vaccinate puts me, others, and the children of others at risk, that’s a problem. I think it then quits being a right. Again, I don’t think anyone has the “right” to bring back preventable and fatal diseases that were once all but eradicated.

  33. Andy

    The troll is not a lone nut, they are a government troll. The anti-Semitic stuff is meant to associate anyone who is a prepper (as in a person who stockpiles food, guns & ammo, etc…), or who questions mandatory vaccines, or who talks about “New World Order” conspiracies, or more specifically, the depopulation agenda (to reduce the world’s population by 80%), with irrational Jew haters (as in people who hate all Jews) and other racists. This is a guilt by association smear tactic which is designed to make people think that anyone who talks about any of this stuff is a white supremist. Notice how the person signed the message claiming to be a party of some kind of Libertarian group? This was meant to make libertarians look like racists, which they know is something that would scare away a lot of potential supporters.

  34. Marc Romain

    If you think the vaccines work, then you take ’em, -and POOF you’re protected! Don’t mandate what this Libertarian’s doing.

  35. Joshua Fauver

    No, I don’t think you or anyone else should be allowed to bring back preventable, contagious, and fatal diseases and viruses for just because you believe in the pseudoscience that claims that vaccines are causing autism and other mental illnesses. That’s absurd. I’ll say it again, your rights end where the begin to infringe on the rights of others. You don’t have a right to put me or anyone else at risk of contracting preventable, contagious, and fatal illnesses. You don’t. The federal government has not only the authority but a mandate to mandate the vaccines. Under the general welfare clause, found in the preamble and the Taxes and Spending clause as well as the necessary and proper clause there is authority to do this. Ensuring that the general populace of this country is not put at risk of contracting diseases and viruses that are preventable and were once all but eradicated is both necessary and proper and it certainly qualifies as “promoting the general welfare.”

  36. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I have a family friend whose grandchild, a boy, is autistic. He is about 15 now and is still non-verbal. The grandfather swears that the child was beginning to talk and was otherwise healthy. Within hours of the first MMR injection, his symptoms appeared. Then, WITHIN DAYS of the diagnosis, a government representative showed up and started the child on a monthly stipend. I did not ask the name of the agency that is paying him, however. I have no reason to believe this is not true. The entire family tells the same story.

    The fact is that vaccines are not completely safe. There are scientific studies to back that up, as evidenced by some of the links Beth Duensing posted.

  37. Robert Capozzi

    It is tragic when side effects lead to other serious medical conditions, no question. It is also tragic when someone becomes ill or dies from uncured or un-immunized disease.

    We may be all better off if there were no vaccines.

    Make THAT case.

  38. Joshua Fauver

    The CDC, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development at the National Institutes of Health, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the Working Party on MMR Vaccine of the United Kingdom’s Committee on the Safety of Medicines have dismissed any correlation of MMR vaccination to autism as baseless.

  39. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Yes, I know, Joshua. However, there’s also scientific evidence saying there IS a correlation, and I do think Beth posted them, but it was on the other vaccine thread. I’m simply relating a personal anecdote.

  40. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    From a thread on the other vaccination article:

    Beth Duensing February 10, 2015 at 7:32 am
    This letter was sent to a principal that was kicking out unvaccinated kids from a school in Michigan. The letter was written by and the list of vaccine research and resources was compiled by Mary Tocco, Director of Vaccine Research for Michigan Opposing Mandatory Vaccines.

    Dear Principal,

    I am very sad to hear that you are discriminating against parents who have made informed vaccine decisions that are different from yours. As Americans we have the right to choose the form of “healthcare” we want to use to promote the health of our families. This is a huge media propaganda scheme and you are either part of the solution or you are the problem.
    Everyone I grew up with had measles, chickenpox, mumps and other normal childhood illnesses and NO ONE DIED!
    By reacting like you are, you are admitting that vaccines fail to protect!
    You are in a position of influence where you are accountable for what you demand of others.
    What if you are wrong? Here are peer reviewed journal scientific research articles about the dangers of vaccines. If you are ethical and honest, you will look these over and consider the other side of this issue.
    1. Over and again, the media sadly misstates that the autism/vaccine debate is due to one faulty research paper that was released years ago and then retracted. Well, they are all sadly mistaken. Here is a collection of 96 peer-reviewed articles linking vaccines to neurodevelopmental delay http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/…/no-evidence-of-any…
    2. Then consider that our government has compensated at least 83 cases of autism from vaccine injury: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/859234
    3. And that finally the Italian court was brave enough to rule in a landmark case that vaccines caused autism Recent Italian Court Decisions on Vaccines and Autism – AGE OF AUTISM
    4. Also, it is said that the “anti-vaccine” viewpoint is unscientific and unsubstantiated. Here is another collection of about 100 peer-reviewed, published medical papers, all indicating that vaccines are indeed detrimental to health: http://www.cmsri.org/published-research/
    5. The outbreaks of measles are always blamed on the unvaccinated. However, the science shows time and again that the real problem is the ineffectiveness of the measles vaccines.
    Measles Outbreaks in Highly Vaccinated Populations (there are many more)
    http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/conte…/…/2014/02/27/cid.ciu105
    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm
    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/…/peds.2009-1653.abst…
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2230232
    http://www.eurosurveillance.org/…/dy…/EE/V18N49/art20649.pdf
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3821823
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3618578
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2627963/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3255929/
    6. Furthermore, the failure our US Measles Program was confirmed in 2012 by Dr. Poland, Professor of Medicine and founder and leader of Mayo Clinic’s Vaccine Research Group) The Re-Emergence of Measles in Developed Countries:Time to Develop the Next-Generation Measles Vaccines?
    He said, “I’m no anti-vaxxer but the measles vaccine can’t prevent outbreaks, it is a dud.”
    7. Outbreaks of Various Infectious Illnesses in Highly Vaccinated Populations: http://www.vaccinationnews.org/…/outbreaks_in_highly_vaccin…
    8. Recipients of Acellular Pertussis Vaccine Spread Disease http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24277828
    (people who get the vaccine are carriers and can spread the disease)
    9. Recent Pertussis Outbreak, All Fully Vaccinated http://boston.cbslocal.com/…/whooping-cough-outbreak-on-ca…/
    Facts: Last 10 years there have been 1,564 measles cases in the US and 0 deaths.
    The Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VEARS) has reported 83 deaths and paid out hundred of thousands in damages.
    Mercury (thimerosal, ethylmercury) and vaccinations leading to autism:
    1. “Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health 2007 With no warning, recall, or ban of mercury in vaccines and other drugs as of yet, the victim of this mandated, unwarranted, and massive mercury exposure is still an unsuspecting public, and most especially its unborn and newborn children.”
    2. 2008 – International Journal of Risk & Safety in Medicine -Autism “Biological findings in autism that are consistent with mercury poisoning include elevated oxidative stress, depleted levels of glutathione, neuro-chemical irregularities, gastro-intestinal distress, immune dysregulation and generalized and neural inflammation. All of these are also well documented effects of mercury poisoning and, specifically, mercury poisoning in infants … Autism is a modern disease. The existing scientific literature provides grounds for strong suspicion that mercury plays a causal role in the development of autism. Health authorities worldwide should move without hesitation to ban and remove all mercury in all medical products at the earliest possible date.”
    3. 2009 – Behavioral and Brain Functions – “A disruption of the glutathione system by mercury leads to GSH depletion and cell destruction. .. Glutathione depletion is linked to several neurodegenerative disorders.”
    4. 2009 – NeuroToxicology – None-the-less, the developing brain is considered the most vulnerable organ to mercury exposure, it is possible that exposure to ethyl mercury may adversely affect the emerging brainstem function … trace + trace + trace = toxic exposure
    5. EPA estimates- 1 in 6 children (up to 630,000 children per year) born in US has unsafe blood levels of mercury at birth (Mahaffey, 2004) These levels are high enough to cause a decline in IQ at an estimated annual cost of 8.7 billion (Trasande, 2005)
    Vaccines causing Demyelination (seizures and brain injury)
    1. Herroelen, L et al, “Central-Nervous-System Demyelination After Immunization with Recombinant Hepatitis B Vaccine”, Lancet, Nov 9, 1991, 338(8776):1174-1175.
    2.Kaplanski G, Retornaz F, Durand J, Soubeyrand J, “Central nervous system demyelination after vaccination against hepatitis B and HLA haplotype.” J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry 1995 Jun; 58(6):758-759.
    3.Matyszak MK, Perry VH, “Demyelination in the central nervous system following a delayed-type hypersensitivity response to bacillus Calmette-Guerin.” Neuroscience 1995 Feb;64(4):967-977.
    4. Tornatore CS, Richert JR, “CNS demyelination associated with diploid cell rabies vaccine.” Lancet 1990 Jun 2;335(8701):1346-1347.
    5.Adams, JM et al, “Neuromyelitis Optica: Severe Demyelination Occurring Years After Primary Smallpox Vaccinations”, Rev Roum Neurol, 1973, 10:227-231.
    Vaccines and Sudden Death Syndrome (SIDS)
    1. Na, “DPT Vaccination and Sudden Infant Death – Tennessee, US Dept HEW, MMWR Report, Mar 23, 1979, vol 28(11): 132.
    2. Arevalo, “Vaccinia Necrosum. Report on a Fatal Case”, Bol Ofoc Sanit Panamer, Aug 1967, 63:106-110.
    3. Connolly, J H, Dick, G W, Field, CM, “A Case of Fatal Progressive Vaccinia”, Brit Med Jour, 12 May 1962; 5288:1315-1317.
    4. Aragona, F, “Fatal Acute Adrenal Insufficiency Caused by Bilateral Apoplexy of the Adrenal Glands (WFS) following Anti-poliomyelitis Vaccination”, Minerva Medicolegale, Aug 1960; 80:167-173.
    5. Moblus, G et al, “Pathological-Anatomical Findings in Cases of Death Following Poliomyelitis and DPT Vaccination”, Dtsch Gesundheitsw, Jul 20, 1972, 27:1382-1386.
    6. NA, “Immunizations and Cot Deaths”, Lancet, Sept 25, 1982, np.
    7. Goetzeler, A, “Fatal Encephalitis after Poliomyelitis Vaccination”, 22 Jun 1961, Muenchen Med Wschr, 102:1419-1422.
    8. Fulginiti, V, “Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, Diphtheria-Tetanus Toxoid-Pertussis Vaccination and Visits to the Doctor: Chance Association or Cause and Effect?”, Pediatr Infect Disorder, Jan-Feb 1983, 2(1): 7-11.
    Vaccines and Diabetes:
    1. Sinaniotis, et al, “Diabetes Mellitus after Mumps Vaccination”, Arc Dis Child, 1975, 50:749.66
    2. Polster, H, “Diabetes insipidus after Smallpox vaccination”, Z Aerztl Fortbild (Jena), 1 Apr 1966, 60:429-432.
    3. Patan, “Postvaccinal Severe Diabetes Mellitus”, Ter Arkh, Jul 1968, 40:117-118.
    4. Classen, JB, MD, “The Timing of Immunization Affects The Development of Diabetes in Rodents”, Autoimmunity, 1996, 24:137-145.
    5. Classen JB, “The diabetes epidemic and the hepatitis B vaccines,” N Z Med J, 109(1030):366 1996 Sep 27. [letter]
    6. Classen JB, “Childhood immunisation and diabetes mellitus,” N Z Med J, 109(1022):195 1996 May 24 [letter]
    7. Poutasi K, ” Immunisation and diabetes,” N Z Med J 1996 Jul 26;109(1026):283. [letter; comment]
    8. Dokheel, T M, “An Epidemic of Childhood Diabetes in the United States? Evidence from ….”, Diabetes Care, 1993, 16:1606-1611.
    9. Parent ME, et al, “Bacille Calmette-Guerin vaccination and incidence of IDDM in Montreal, Canada,” Diabetes Care 1997 May; 20(5):767-772.
    10. House DV, Winter WE, “Autoimmune diabetes. The role of auto-antibody markers in the prediction and prevention of insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus,” Clin Lab Med 1997 Sep; 17(3):499-545.
    11. Zeigler, M et al , “[Autoantibodies in type 1 diabetes mellitus]” Z Arztl Fortbild (Jena). 1994 Aug; 88(7-8):561-5
    Vaccines and Deafness:
    1. Kaga, “Unilateral Total Loss of Auditory and Vestibular Function as a Complication of Mumps Vaccination”, Int J Ped Oto, Feb 1998, 43(1):73-73
    2. Nabe-Nielsen, Walter, “Unilateral Total Deafness as a Complication of the Measles- Mumps- Rubella Vaccination”, Scan Audio Suppl, 1988, 30:69-70
    3. Hulbert, et al, “Bilateral Hearing Loss after Measles and Rubella Vaccination in an Adult”, NEJM, 1991 July, 11;325(2):134
    4. Healy, “Mumps Vaccine and Nerve Deafness”, Am J Disorder Child, 1972 Jun; 123(6):612
    5. Jayarajan, Sedler, “Hearing Loss Following Measles Vaccination”, J Infect, 1995 Mar; 30(2):184-185
    6. Pialoux, P et al, “Vaccinations and Deafness”, Ann Otolaryng (Paris), Dec 1963, 80:1012-1013.
    7. Angerstein, W, et al, “Solitary Hearing and Equilibrium Damage After Vaccinations”, Gesundheitswesen, May 1995, 57(5): 264-268.
    8. Brodsky, Stanievich, “Sensorineural Hearing Loss Following Live Measles Virus Vaccination”, Int J Ped Oto, 1985 Nov; 10(2):159-163
    9. Koga, et al, “Bilateral Acute Profound Deafness After MMR Vaccination- Report of a Case”, Nippon Jibiin Gakkai Kai, 1991 Aug;94(8):1142-5
    10. Seiferth, LB, “Deafness after Oral Poliomyelitis Vaccination – a Case Report and Review”, HNO, 1977 Aug; 25(8): 297-300
    11. Pantazopoulos, PE, “Perceptive Deafness Following Prophylactic use of Tetanus anittoxin”, Laryngoscope, Dec 1965, 75:1832-1836.
    12. Zimmerman, W, “Observation of a case of Acute Bilateral Hearing Impairment Following Preventive Poliomyelitis Vaccination (type 3)”, Arch Ohr Nas Kehlkopfheilk, 1965, 185:723-725.
    Vaccines and Encephalopathy (Brain inflammation/injury):
    1. Iwasa, S et al, “Swelling of the Brain in Mice Caused by Pertussis … Quantitative Determination and the Responsibility of the Vaccine”, Jpn J Med Sci Biol, 1985 , 38(2):53-65.
    2. Mathur R, Kumari S, “Bulging fontanel following triple vaccine.” Indian Pediatr 1981 Jun;18(6):417-418.
    3. Barry W, Lenney W, Hatcher G, “Bulging fontanelles in infants without meningitis.” Arch Dis Child 1989 Apr;64(4):635-636.
    4. Shendurnikar N, “Bulging fontanel following DPT” Indian Pediatr 1986 Nov;23(11):960.
    5. Gross TP, Milstien JB, Kuritsky JN, “Bulging fontanelle after immunization with diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis vaccine and diphtheria-tetanus vaccine.” J Pediatr 1989 Mar;114(3):423-425.
    6. Jacob J, Mannino F, “Increased intracranial pressure after diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis immunization.” Am J Dis Child 1979 Feb;133(2):217-218.
    7. Dugmore, WN, “Bilateral Oedema at the Posterior Pole. Hypersensitivity Reaction to Alavac P injection.” Br J Ophthalmol, Dec 1972, 55:848-849.
    Vaccines and Kidney Disease:
    1. Jacquot, C et al, “Renal Risk in Vaccination”, Nouv Presse Med, Nov 6, 1982, 11(44):3237-3238.
    2. Giudicelli, et al, “Renal Risk in Vaccination”, Presse Med, Jun 11, 1982, 12(25):1587-1590.
    3. Tan, SY, et al, “Vaccine Related Glomerulonephritis”, BMJ, Jan 23, 1993, 306(6872):248.
    4. Pillai, JJ, et al, “Renal Involvement in Association with Post-vaccination Varicella”, Clin Infect Disorder, Dec 1993, 17(6): 1079-1080.
    5. Eisinger, AJ et al, “Acute Renal Failure after TAB and Cholera Vaccination”, B Med J, Feb 10, 1979, 1(6160):381-382.
    6. Silina, ZM, et al, “Causes of Postvaccinal Complications in the Kidneys in Young Infants”, Pediatria, Dec 1978, (12):59-61.
    7. Na, “Albuminurias”, Concours Med, Mar 1964, 85:5095-5098. [vaccination adverse reactions]
    8. Oyrl, A, et al, “Can Vaccinations Harm the Kidney?”, Clin Nephrol, 1975, 3(5):204-205.
    9. Mel’man Nia, “[Renal lesions after use of vaccines and sera].” Vrach Delo 1978 Oct;(10):67-9, [Article in Russian]
    10. Silina ZM, Galaktionova TIa, Shabunina NR, “[Causes of postvaccinal complications in the kidneys in young infants].” Pediatriia 1978 Dec;(12):59-61, [Article in Russian]
    11. Silina EM, et al, “[Some diseases of the kidneys in children during the 1st year of life, following primary smallpox vaccination and administration of pertusis-diphtheria-tetanus vaccine].” Vopr Okhr Materin Det 1968 Mar; 13(3):79-80, [Article in Russian]
    Vaccines and Lymphoma (cancer)
    1. Bichel, “Post-vaccinial Lymphadenitis Developing into Hodgkin’s Disease”, Acta Med Scand, 1976, Vol 199, p523-525.
    2. Stewart, AM, et al, “Aetiology of Childhood Leukaemia”, Lancet, 16 Oct, 1965, 2:789-790. [Listed under Vaccine Adverse Reactions.]
    3. Glathe, H et al, “Evidence of Tumorigenic Activity of Candidate Cell Substrate in Vaccine Production by the Use of Anti-Lymphocyte Serum”, Development Biol Std, 1977, 34:145-148.
    4. Bolognesi, DP, “Potential Leukemia Virus Subunit Vaccines: Discussion”, Can Research, Feb 1976, 36(2 pt 2):655-656.
    5. Colon, VF, et al, “Vaccinia Necrosum as a Clue to Lymphatic Lymphoma”, Geriatrics, Dec 1968, 23:81-82.
    6. Park-Dincsoy, H et al, “Lymphoid Depletion in a case of Vaccinia Gangrenosa”, Laval Med, Jan 1968, 39:24-26.
    7. Hugoson, G et al, “The Occurrence of Bovine Leukosis Following the Introduction of Babesiosis Vaccination”, Bibl Haemat, 1968, 30:157-161.
    8. Hartstock, , “”Post-vaccinial Lymphadenitis: Hyperplasia of Lymphoid Tissue That Simulates Malignant Lymphomas”, Apr 1968, Cancer, 21(4):632-649.
    9. Allerberger, F, “An Outbreak of Suppurative Lymphadenitis Connected with BCG Vaccination in Austria- 1990/1991,” Am Rev Respir Disorder, Aug 1991, 144(2) 469.
    10. Omokoku B, Castells S, “Post-DPT inoculation cervical lymphadenitis in children.” N Y State J Med 1981 Oct;81(11):1667-1668.
    Vaccines and Seizures – Convulsions:
    1. Hirtz DG, Nelson KB, Ellenberg J H, “Seizures following childhood immunizations”, Pediatr 1983 Jan; 102(1):14-18.
    2. Cherry JD, Holtzman AE, Shields WD, Buch D, Nielsen, “Pertussis immunization and characteristics related to first seizures in infants and children,”J Pediatr 1993 Jun;122(6):900-903.
    3. Coplan J, “Seizures following immunizations,” J Pediatr 1983 Sep;103(3):496.
    4. Barkin RM, Jabhour JT, Samuelson J S, “Immunizations, seizures, and subsequent evaluation,” JAMA 1987 Jul 10;258(2):201.
    5. Griffin MR, et al, “Risk of seizures after measles-mumps-rubella immunization,” Pediatrics 1991 Nov;88(5):881-885.
    6. Griffin MR, et al, “Risk of seizures and encephalopathy after immunization with the diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis vaccine,” JAMA 1990 Mar 23-30;263(12):1641-1645.
    7. Cizewska S, Huber Z, Sluzewski W, “[Prophylactic inoculations and seizure activity in the EEG],” Neurol Neurochir Pol 1981 Sep-Dec;15(5-6):553-557. [Article in Polish]
    8. Huttenlocher PR, Hapke RJ, “A follow-up study of intractable seizures in childhood.” Ann Neurol 1990 Nov; 28(5):699-705.
    9. Blumberg DA, “Severe reactions associated with diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis vaccine: detailed study of children with seizures, hypotonic-hypo-responsive episodes, high fevers, and persistent crying.”Pediatrics 1993 Jun; 91(6):1158-1165.
    10. Prensky AL, et al, “History of convulsions and use of pertussis vaccine,” J Pediatr 1985 Aug; 107(2):244-255.
    11. Baraff LJ, “Infants and children with convulsions and hypotonic-hypo-responsive episodes following diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis immunization: follow-up evaluation,” Pediatrics 1988 Jun; 81(6):789-794.
    12. Jacobson V, “Relationship of pertussis immunization to the onset of epilepsy, febrile convulsions and central nervous system infections: a retrospective epidemiologic study,” Tokai J Exp Clin Med 1988;13 Suppl: 137-142.
    13. Cupic V,et al, “[Role of DTP vaccine in the convulsive syndromes in children],” Lijec Vjesn 1978 Jun; 100(6):345-348. [Article in Serbo-Croatian (Roman)]
    14. Pokrovskaia NIa, “[Convulsive syndrome in DPT vaccination (a clinico-experimental study)],” Pediatriia 1983 May;(5):37-39. [Article in Russian]
    15. Ballerini, Ricci, B, et al, “On Neurological Complications of Vaccination, With Special Reference to Epileptic Syndromes,” Riv Neurol, Jul-Aug 1973, 43:254-258.
    16. Wolf SM, Forsythe A, “Epilepsy and mental retardation following febrile seizures in childhood,” Acta Paediatr Scand 1989 Mar;78(2):291-295.
    Vaccines and Skin Disorders:
    1. Illingsworth R, “Skin rashes after triple vaccine,” Arch Dis Child 1987 Sep; 62(9):979.
    2. Lupton GP, “Discoid lupus erythematosus occurring in a smallpox vaccination scar,” J Am Acad Dermatol, 1987 Oct; 17(4):688-690.
    3. Kompier, A J, “Some Skin Diseases caused by Vaccinia Virus [Smallpox],” Ned Milt Geneesk T, 15:149-157, May 1962.
    4. Weber, G et al, “Skin Lesions Following Vaccinations,” Deutsch Med Wschr, 88:1878-1886, S7 Sept 1963.
    5. Copeman, P W, “Skin Complications of Smallpox Vaccination,” Practitioner, 197:793-800, Dec 1966.
    6. Denning, DW, et al, “Skin Rashes After Triple Vaccine,” Arch Disorder Child, May 1987, 62(5): 510-511.

    This list was compiled by Mary Tocco, Director of Vaccine Research for Michigan Opposing Mandatory Vaccines, to help those who are blind-sided by all the propaganda in the media, deceived by the CDC, the Institute of Medicine and the American Pediatric Association. You have my permission to copy and share with every parent you know so that we can stop the criminal acts of violence on our citizens.

  41. Mark Herd

    Mercury was up to 50% of the preservative used in vaccines way back before they knew. Do they know now what issues might exist. My doc told me a story about his friend, another doctor, who became violently ill after a vaccination. Are you telling me YOU or ANYONE should force that on all of us. Hell no. But if something breaks out and the whole town has pimples all over everybodies bodies, then hell yes, I will go in, UNFORCED and get my free shot at Walgreens.

  42. Robert Capozzi

    Is it just me, or does Michigan Opposing Mandatory Vaccines’s statement here seem a bit histrionical:

    “You have my permission to copy and share with every parent you know so that we can stop the criminal acts of violence on our citizens.”

  43. paulie

    Related discussion of LP of Mississippi FB page https://www.facebook.com/groups/libertarianpartyms/permalink/959304790760507/


    Nychole Ball via Judy Simon:

    There needs to be a change in the way vaccine injuries are handled. With any other medicine the pharmacy company, doctors, and more are held accountable, by liability, for any harm that may come to the person receiving medical services. Vaccines should be held to the same standard.

    (to)Rep. John Boehner: Repeal: The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986
    https://www.change.org/p/rep-john-boehner-repeal-the-national-childhood-vaccine-injury-act-of-1986

    Floyd Maseda: There is absolutely zero credible research that has shown a link between vaccines and autism.

    That said, I do agree that companies and organizations that make vaccines should not be shielded from the judicial system and would support repealing at least that section of the law.

    Nychole Ball: I personally stated nothing about autism. But since you brought it up if there is no link why does the insert say it’s a side effect, and why has the vaccine court paid out millions to children that developed autism after receiving their vaccines.
    http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/220807175/device_features

    I do not think that any company should be above the accountability of others when they directly effect their lives. There are many forms that injury take, and to not be responsible for the injury they cause is despicable.

    MaryJo Perry: this is a great idea. hope it happens. And floyd, maybe you have been drinking cdc and media koolaid. this will get you up to speed.http://freedomoutpost.com/2015/02/immunity-granted-cdc-whistleblower-admitted-covering-links-autism-vaccines/

    Floyd Maseda: The funny thing is I was actually giving you guys a little leeway. I was telling you that I would work with you to repeal that part of the law. Despite our disagreements on some aspects of it, I was on your side.

    The only thing you responded to, however, was the one thing you didn’t agree with. You ignored the potential coalition.

    This is why no one will take you seriously, and it’s actually applicable to the entire liberty movement. Even if someone doesn’t agree with every single thing you say, if they are working with you, DON’T FUCK IT UP. Pointless purity tests are the downfall of this movement, and your comments here illustrate that perfectly.

    I will no longer be commenting here and will not work with you to repeal this law. Good luck in your efforts.

    MaryJo Perry: Someone who genuinely reaches out their hand to coalesce doesn’t do it with contentious argument and attempt to insult as you have. If your support was that fragile, you are likely not able to do much for our cause anyway.

    Nychole Ball: I did not mean it in a way to ignore you I was just responding. I do not have a issue with people believing differently I just was stating that I don’t understand why people lead with that. The law is something that needs to be repealed for everyone’s benefit. Since I appeared to offend you with my comment I apologize, and wish you the best in your evening.

  44. Guess what

    My favorite is the “pacifist” moron who wants to use violence to forcibly inject people against their will.

  45. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I read nothing in the exchange on the MIssissippi LP FB page that should have offended anyone. Why are people so testy about this issue? I really don’t get it.

  46. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    RC asked: ” …does Michigan Opposing Mandatory Vaccines’s statement here seem a bit histrionical?”

    No more than all the newcasts acting like the world is coming to an end because a little more than 100 people in this vast country have come down with the measles.

  47. paulie

    There needs to be a change in the way vaccine injuries are handled. With any other medicine the pharmacy company, doctors, and more are held accountable, by liability, for any harm that may come to the person receiving medical services. Vaccines should be held to the same standard.

    (to)Rep. John Boehner: Repeal: The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986

    Anyone care to agree or disagree and explain why you do so?

    My initial impulse is to agree that immunity from liability should be repealed. This is independent of how safe or dangerous I actually think vaccines are, which is a separate question.

    Does anyone have compelling reasons why they should be immune from liability?

  48. langa

    …your rights end where the begin to infringe on the rights of others.

    I had no idea there was a right not to get sick. Should anyone with any contagious disease be quarantined? Even the common cold? If not, who gets to decide where “we” draw the line?

    Also, is it just me, or do these arguments for mandatory vaccination remind anyone else of all the arguments about how we must sacrifice our rights to keep “everyone” safe from terrorism, pollution, or [insert bogeyman of your choice]?

  49. langa

    I read nothing in the exchange on the MIssissippi LP FB page that should have offended anyone. Why are people so testy about this issue? I really don’t get it.

    These days, many people seem to be so thin-skinned that I honestly wonder if they aren’t actively seeking out things to which they can take offense.

  50. langa

    My initial impulse is to agree that immunity from liability should be repealed. This is independent of how safe or dangerous I actually think vaccines are, which is a separate question.

    I agree with both your reasoning and your conclusion.

  51. Andrew Maniotis

    PETITION FOR A NEW BIOMEDICAL EXEMPTION OPTION FOR PARENTS AND EVERYBODY ELSE.

    We know so little about vaccines and their relationship to epidemics, other than they don’t prevent epidemics as shown by recent whooping cough rates along the West coast that show the highest levels of the disease in 50 years
    (http://www.naturalnews.com/036560_whooping_cough_outbreak_vaccinations.html)
    within nearly 100% vaccinated populations.

    This trend is also seen by examining the history of vaccinology in general (http://andrewmaniotis.wordpress.com/vaccines-how-to-predict-epidemics-3/).
    This document provides the scientific, epidemiological, and common sense foundation for a biologically and medicaly-based new exemption from vaccination we call BIOMEDICAL EXEMPTION” for the following reasons:

    1. The practice of inoculation and then, vaccination, is based on superstition rather than anything resembling science, controlled studies, or safety tests employing control groups. Inoculations began with a history of the infusion of lymph puss and cellular materials, associated microbes, toxins, and other substances derived from disease-associated lesions or fluids into the human body that are immunologically foreign, or poisonous.
    Vaccination (inoculation) is a practice that bypasses mucosal immunity by injecting poisons or microbes directly into the bloodstream that circumvents critically important mucosal immune mechanisms (that Nature designed to combat microbes and toxins). Despite “the wisdom” of the 1940’s and 1950’s during which The Medical Establishment, petrochemical, and agricultural industries, and others A) promoted the dipping of cows (and plants) in potent neurotoxins, and the wide-spread spraying of children, kitchens, and the food supply with DDT, a new practice, which corresponded precisely with the huge increase in infantile paralysis due to destruction of the anterior horn cells of the spinal cord by the poisons, and B) discouraged breast feeding and the establishment of post-partum immune development, C) promoted tonsillectomies in millions of children which are a first-line immune defense mechanism Nature has perfected, there are legions of doctors and scientists (and parents) who now have seen enough carnage to advocate for a BIOMEDICAL EXEMPTION to vaccination, as well as some of these other barbaric practices.

    By 1839, after mandated smallpox vaccination was implemented, an epidemic of smallpox swept England and killed 22,081 people, and by 1840, inoculations were briefly outlawed by the British Parliament, suggesting even during the 1800’s, an urgent need for people to be able to opt for a biomedical exemption was recognized and briefly adopted.

    2. Vaccination does not induce an immunological state equivalent to natural immunity. Clearly, in so many different contexts, vaccine-induced seroconversion (antibodies as evidence of pathogen or antigen exposure by vaccination) does not equal the kind of life-long protection afforded by natural infections, nor do they predict the future occurrence of actual disease, as the Jennerian paradigm of vaccination incorrectly suggested. Thus, vaccines rob individuals the right to obtain life-long and durable immunity, suggesting unequivocally, that a need for people to be able to opt for a biomedical exemption is needed urgently.

    3. Inoculations, as well as vaccinations were and are a complex and dangerous medical procedure. In this context, they are not unlike blood transfusions or liver transplants that can alter the immune system for life, and should be regarded as such by the scientific and medical communities, as well as the general public, again suggesting an urgent need for people to be able to opt for a biomedical exemption.

    4. A medical intervention such as vaccination, although usually harmless to most healthy individuals when kept to a minimum, vaccines can be extremely harmful to some groups of people, and in so doing, lacks a predictable outcome, not to mention a sound theoretical and empirical foundation. When ten million or hundreds of millions of vaccinations are given, however, the so-called sensitive group(s) can amount to tens or hundreds of thousands, or millions. This is why vaccine damage compensation programs have been erected, as well as VAERS (the Vaccine Adverse Advents Reporting System), and CDC’s “data link,” again urging a life-sparing, brain-protecting, and auto-immune damage-avoiding need for people to be able to opt for a biomedical exemption.

    5. Vaccines do not necessarily target a specific disease. So-called epidemic diseases have historically been, and continue to be, a hodge-podge of various syndromes and symptoms lumped together under a single name or disease entity, whether or not a specific pathogen is associated with them. In 1950 (September), for instance, Ralph R. Sc obey, M.D., president of the Poliomyelitis Research Institute. Inc. Syracuse, New York (Archives of Pediatrics, Sept. 1950) lists 170 diseases of polio-like symptoms and effects but with different names such as: epidemic cholera, cholera morbus, spinal meningitis, spinal apoplexy, inhibitory palsy, intermittent fever, famine fever, worm fever, bilious remittent fever, ergotism, and others. As a second cogent example, after the Salk vaccine failed and was withdrawn weeks after its introduction because of increasing paralysis over background incidence, and, a few years later, after the Sabin vaccine was feared to cause cancers in millions, all cases of paralysis were reclassified as transverse myelitis after the introduction of these “polio vaccines” that the U.S. government championed and lavishly rewarded. There are also such common nutritional deficiency diseases as beriberi, scurvy, Asiatic plague, pellagra, prison edema, acidosis, Gillian-Barre syndrome, and others, that mimic the devastation of extensive DDT spraying, arsenic dipping, and other corporate and medically-advocated “health” interventions, again suggesting an urgent need for people to be able to opt for a biomedical exemption.

    6. The entire concept of so-called “herd-immunity” is based on faulty logic, superstition (and religious furver), no data, and contradictory data regarding vaccine transmission of epidemics or Vaccines do not necessarily target a specific disease. So-called epidemic diseases have historically been, and continue to be, a hodge-podge of various syndromes and symptoms lumped together under a single name or disease entity, whether or not a specific pathogen is associated with them.disease (passive acquisition of an illness from a vaccinated family member). For instance it is well documented that whooping cough declined 90% before the vaccine was introduced, and, as mentioned above, is the highest in 50 years following near universal vaccination of in places like California, Oregon, and Washington State. The new biomedical exemption presented here posits that if citizens believe a vaccine is like car wax that protects a car in the winter from the ice and snow and rain (viruses, bacteria, or other pathogens), then by all means, if you believe in the efficacy and safety of vaccines, then wax your car to protect it, but my waxing my car (or mandating that I should by coercion by mandate or by law or penalty), should have no bearing on what happens to your car when you “vaccinate it” or “wax it” to protect it from winter “rust” (or germs floating everywhere about in the case of vaccination), again suggesting a need for people to be able to opt for a biomedical exemption is urgently required.

    7. Epidemics caused by humans are predictable to the extent that vaccine campaigns and epidemics have been frequently associated. Even the most well-known scourge of the 19thCentury was strongly associated with vaccination. In 1917, 6 years after mandatory vaccination was adopted in 1911, U.S. soldiers were universally vaccinated prior to going overseas to fight in WW I. They soon began to drop dead by the thousands from a strange syndrome that preferentially attacked young adults. In 1918 DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY records, in a report entitled, “The Pandemic of Influenza in 1918-1919” prepared by the US Department of Health, Education and Welfare and Public Health Service National Office of Vital Statistics, indicated that the extraordinary feature of “the Great Spanish flu” was that it attacked young people in the prime of life unlike any other epidemics recorded (accept AIDS-my emphasis). That was the first war in which all the known vaccines were forced on all the servicemen. This mish-mash of poison drugs and putrid protein of which the vaccines were composed, caused such widespread disease and death among the soldiers that it was the common talk of the day, that more of our men were being killed by medical shots than by enemy shots from guns.

    Similarly, the background rates of paralysis greatly increased following the Salk polio vaccine era in the 1950’s which was why the Sabin vaccine was quickly adopted. By 1972 Jonas Salk, inventor of the IPV (inactivated polio vaccine), testified before a Senate subcommittee that:
    “nearly all polio outbreaks since 1961 were caused by the oral polio vaccine.”
    In 1989, the country of Oman experienced a widespread polio outbreak six months after achieving a complete vaccination rate. By 1992, America’s Centers for Disease Control (CDC) in Atlanta admitted that the polio live-virus vaccine had become the main cause of polio in the United States. Specifically, the CDC asserted that, “from 1973 to 1983, 87% of all (non-imported) cases of polio resulted directly from vaccine administration. Even more amazingly, it was asserted that every non-imported case of polio in the United States from 1980 to 1989 was vaccine-induced (Strebel, P. M., et al., Epidemiology of Poliomyelitis in the U.S. One Decade after the Last Reported Case of Indigenous Wild Virus Associated Disease, Clinical Infectious Diseases, CDC, February 1992, pp. 568-579).

    By 1997 it was admitted that: “Polio is not eradicated by vaccination, but likely lurks behind a disease redefinition and new diagnostic names like viral or aseptic meningitis…….According to one of the 1997 issues of the MMWR, there are some 30,000 to 50,000 cases of viral meningitis per year in the United States alone. That’s where it is thought that 30,000 – 50,000 cases of polio disappeared after the introduction of mass vaccination,” again suggesting a mandate for parents and everybody else to claim a biomedical exemption from vaccinations.

    8. By the 1930?s, the preponderance of carefully documented evidence demonstrated that through proper nutrition, sanitation, adequate care of the sick, or lack of war or vaccination, that epidemics can be avoided, and common diseases vanquished. The contributions of Dr. Tom Spies and others who helped erect our public health system without vaccination during and after the FDR era are numerous (De Kruif, 1949). In fact, all so-called contagious syndromes of the 19th Century were on the decline BEFORE each and every vaccine was introduced to the human population, and this fact has been documented by numerous epidemiological surveys comparing when diseases have declined and vaccines introduced, scientifically and epidemiologically supporting a long-standing epidemiological basis for people to be able to opt for a biomedical exemption.

    9. Vaccines always have been contaminated by a host of agents that cause diseases, and as witnessed during many vaccine campaigns, diseases other than they are not targeted for. In Hawaii, for instance, where lymph was derived from potentially leprosy-bearing peoples, there is some evidence from the middle to late 1800?s to support the idea that in some instances, smallpox vaccination caused outbreaks of both leprosy and syphilis, as well as out breaks of other diseases.

    In 1942, a report of the US Secretary of War, Henry L. Simpson regarding the deaths from yellow fever shots stated that:
    “Recent Army experience with yellow fever vaccine resulted in 28,505 cases of hepatitis with 62 deaths.”

    Similarly, vaccinologists by the 1960’s were afraid that the Salk and Sabin vaccines were contaminated with SV40, the so-called simian virus that was shown to be capable of causing mesotheliomas, lymphomas, brain tumors, and other cancers in animals. During the “polio era” this fear accounted for published statements suggesting that “The Soviets would lose the 1964 Olympics because their athletes would all have tumors thanks to SV40? (Bookchin and Schumacker, 2004) again suggesting the need for a biomedical exemption from vaccination. Some data argue that the polio vaccine has contributed greatly to certain cancer rates, such as lymph cancers, while other data is not clear because the follow-up periods haven’t been long enough according to the authors. By 1998 October 15,000 French citizens filed a lawsuit against the French government for understating the risks and overstating the benefits associated with the hepatitis B vaccine. Hundreds of people were reported to have suffered from auto immune and neurological disorders, including multiple sclerosis, following hepatitis B vaccination. As a result, in October 1998, the French Minister of Health ended the mandatory hepatitis B vaccination program for all school children. “The French decision to continue hepatitis B immunization at birth while discontinuing immunization starting at school age suggests the French Ministry of Health may believe that they can decrease vaccine induced autoimmunity by giving vaccines starting in the first month of life. They appear to be accepting our findings” (Classen http://www.healing-arts.org/children/vaccines/vaccines-information.htm).

    10. Among the acellular or molecular vaccines (beginning with the hepatitis B era), there is solid evidence that the effects of vaccine adjuvants used to boost the non-specific immune response like squalene or aluminum used by vaccinologists to help make more effective the body’s response to the primary injected antigens, or that “preservatives” (like neurotoxins such as ethylmercury-thimerisol), or anti-microbials in vaccines (such as gentimycin or amphotericin B) can cause autoimmune diseases with high frequency. Squalene is used by scientists that study autoimmunity in rats to induce syndromes like arthritis, myofaciitis, and other syndromes. Yet, these adjuvants are thought to be necessary in modern vaccinology because the molecular vaccines typically don’t contain antigens that evoke seroconversion very effectively or for very long. Some of the adjuvents mentioned above like squaline have been used in anthrax vaccines and others such as “HIV” vaccines, because it is clear that the molecularly designed vaccines, or the highly purified components of antigens in them, seldom, if ever, can be shown to evoke an adequate, or any durable immune response on their own at all, because the antigens are too pure, too fragmentary, or they are non-immunogenic because of faulty isolation (as demonstrated by the more than 210 or more so-called “HIV” vaccine trials that have completely failed at a cost of 500 million taxpayer dollars/year). Similarly, and with respect to the emerging autism epidemic between 1989- 2003, the incidence of autism (and other related disorders) went from about 1 in 2,500 children to 1 in every 166. Up until about 1989 pre-school children got only 3 vaccines (polio, DPT, MMR). By 1999 the CDC recommended a total of 22 vaccines/ antigens to be given before children reach the 1st grade, including Hepatitis B, which is given to newborns within the first 24 hours of birth before they possess a comprehensive immune system to respond to foreign antigens (or toxins). Many of these vaccines contained mercury. MMR is particularly worrisome but health officials censor all concerns or criticisms even by well-known doctors and scientists, and congressional hearings. In the 1990s approximately 40 million children were injected with mercury-containing vaccines. The cumulative amount of the potent neurotoxin mercury being given to children in this number of vaccines in many cases have been shown to be in an amount 187 times the EPA daily exposure limit. There has never been a controlled experiment to test the complex vaccine schedule of any of these vaccines, suggesting an urgent need for people to be able to opt for a biomedical exemption.

    11. Perhaps the newest evidence to support a biomedical exemption from vaccination, is the idea that foreign proteins, adjuvants, and other irritants cause what have been referred to as “ministrokes,” or eschemic episodes. These over-responses of immune cells due to vaccines and adjuvants cause ischemia by clogging up arteries in syndromes such as in M.S., Alzheimers, arthritis, demyelination syndromes, autism spectrum disorders, and after vaccination(s), suggesting an urgent need for people to be able to opt for a biomedical exemption.

    12. Vaccines aren’t safety tested on humans or even with animals before they are given to millions, as shown by the 1976 “swine flu” fiasco, that resulted in more than 500 cases of Guillian-Barre syndrome, President Gerald Ford being vaccinated on T.V., and the admission(s) by the CDC that no testing was done on the strain given to more than 40 million Americans. It also is a distortion that these vaccines are first safety tested in animal models: in many cases there aren’t even any animal models that recapitulate the disease vaccinated against, and in many cases, vaccine lots are tested on inappropriate animal models but then different formulations and lots are given to people, as is what happened during the 1976 swine flu terrorism directed by David J. Sencer, M.D., M.P.H. then head of the CDC. This 60 minute interview that indicted Sencer for his fraud and lying to the American public can be found here, although it has been removed from many websites, apparently due to U.S. Government censorship:

    http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=7m92vldwbQaXdxDDVDGpp7Fc57K5CWw6
    Minimal toxicity testing on lab animals such as rats that don’t acquire human diseases is typically done for some vaccines, but the relevance and dosages of vaccines tested in animals remains in most cases unproven before given to humans, again suggesting an urgent need for people to be able to opt for a biomedical exemption.

    13. Many veterinarians now caution against frequent vaccinations, or, according to many veterinarians, any vaccines of cats, dogs, horses, or cattle, because of the induction of some 20, 000 to 160,000 cancers/ year in cats, and a huge disease burden that vaccines cause in dogs at the injection site, and which tend to be far more aggressive than non-vaccine-acquired cancers, suggesting an urgent need for at least your pets to be able to opt for a biomedical exemption.

    14. Despite the fact that in June, 1994, the AIDS Research Advisory Committee (ARAC) of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) recommended after 30 failed “HIV” vaccine trials that Phase III clinical trials with enveloped vaccines should not proceed in the United States because of the “scientific, political, and ethical issues, and the significant level of scientific uncertainty about the wisdom of immediate trials,” Phase I and II clinical trials of HIV have continued to be conducted, and no less than 217 “HIV” vaccines are currently in that “pipeline. A minimum of five-hundred million tax-payer dollars per year are spent on the current “HIV” vaccine program alone, to develop the current 229 or more current preventative and therapeutic “HIV” vaccines

    (http://aidsinfo.nih.gov/clinical-trials/search/q/1/category/299/vaccine-research/300/hiv-preventive-vaccines), and the so-call 70 therapeutic “HIV” vaccines
    (https://www.google.com/search?q=aidsinfo.nih.gov%2Fclinical-trials%2Fsearch%2Fq%2F1%2Fcategory%2F299%2Fvaccine-research%2F301%2Fhiv-therapeutic-vaccines&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)
    that are in that so-called “pipeline.” Thus there are at least 224 “HIV” vaccine trials that have failed to work, and due to an additional 7 vaccine trials that have failed or been abruptly halted because the experimental arm increased the rate of “HIV” testing among the vaccinated (bringing the total to 224 failed vaccine trials), this perhaps constitutes the strongest argument to end vaccinations or grant a biomedical exemption from them. Each of these human experiments should be viewed as massive wasteful “challenger sized disasters” as they have been described even by those individuals who have worked on them. It is also known that hepatitis B vaccines, flu vaccines, and tetanus vaccines all evoke positive “HIV” tests that ruin peoples lives with a death sentence, and lifetime enrollment of costly and toxic (in some cases, addictive drugs e.g.sustiva in atripla made by Rumsfelds former company, Gilead Biosciences). 224 failed or failing vaccine types cry out for an end to vaccination period.

    15. Vaccinology has always been plagued with politics and financial interests instead of being grounded upon a solid biomedical foundation. Despite the fact that inoculation was outlawed by the British Parliament in 1840, in 1853 The Compulsory Vaccination Act in England was passed by Parliament and every parent was required to have their baby vaccinated within 3 months of birth or face a fine of 20 shillings. In modern times, we face similar threats that our children won’t be admitted to school unless they are jabbed with the hepatitis B vaccine (a rare syndrome) and whose safety data we have yet to see. The school nurse and Public Health Department, or school admittance policies should not threaten you to believe that you cannot enroll your kid, based on the madness surrounding the possibility that your 5-year-old will transmit a sexual, or needle-borne, or blood-product-transmitted “syndrome” that has a 99% or greater spontaneous resolution rate in otherwise healthy individuals, to someone else’s 5 year old, (when they have sex or shoot heroin in the gym locker-room, or if they share razor blades-are the reasons typically given to support mandatory vaccination) as the pharmaceutical company and Public Health Service logic goes. Currently, parents are being threatened that their daughters have a 70% chance of acquiring cervical cancer if they test “HPV” positive, unless they fork over $300.00 dollars for a series of 3 HPV shots, which have one of the highest Adverse Events profile associated with them, to destroy our virgin daughters, and now, young sons (please see a free book entitled, “Sacrifice of the Virgins” on the following website (andrewmaniotis.wordpress.com).

    Written by a doctor Stoller, who quit the AAP because of its fraud: “Thimerosal was tested only once, by Eli Lilly on 22 adult patients suffering from meningitis. There was no chance for follow- up to observe long-term effects, as all of the patients in this “study” died. Even if follow-up had been possible, damage to the developing brains of very young children would have remained an unknown. Eli Lilly said it was safe and the medical community accepted it. After the creation of the FDA, its use was simply continued. The federal government has never tested the type of mercury in vaccines for toxicity. This is an unconscionable oversight failure at best, at worse it is an example that we have left consensus reality to be created by the liars, thieves, cheats, killers, and the junk scientists they employ.”

    “How it came to pass the AAP joined these rogues and be-came an active participant in this skullduggery is beyond reason even beyond greed. They have remained silent as mercury-laden vaccine continues to be exported and used in all third world and second world countries. ”
    “We are living in a time where an incredible overplay and lies, self-aggrandizing behavior and non-science are the norm. We have tolerated the junk science that has covered up the true cause of this epidemic at a considerable cost to science, the public, and our very way of life in this country. Is it a stretch to realize that by putting our collective heads in the sand about the autism epidemic we have made it possible for the destruction of our very civilization?”

    16. Finally, perhaps the sickest new chapter in the history of vaccines is GlaxoSmithKline’s new vaccine to be experimented on premature infants and even human fetuses in the womb.
    2012 January 25,http://sanevax.org/premature-babies-used-as-lab-rats-in-manipulated-vaccine-trials/ Premature Babies Used As Lab Rats In Manipulated Vaccine Trials By Christina England (see attached information regarding how inappropriate contols were done in this (and other) trials (of rotovirus vaccines and others).

    After review of these and numerous other facts, many scientists who have worked on developing them, and who have some grasp of both their true history and politics resolve that there exists an urgent need for people to be able to opt for a biomedical exemption:

    Resolved: From the long history of vaccination, and the untold damage the practice has caused to individuals or small groups of individuals, it should be clear to most at this point in time that vaccines harm, maim, and even kill certain individuals. The existence of a VAERS voluntary reporting system, the CDC-maintained datalink, and vaccine courts erected for vaccine damage compensation all are in existence precisely because the promoters of vaccines have conceded that vaccines have and will always harm certain individuals. Perhaps this is why Dr. James R. Shannon, former director of the National institute of health declared, “the only safe vaccine is one that is never used,” and why Salk testified before congress stating that “ 89% of polio currently in the world is due to the Sabin vaccine.”

    Resolved: There is now sufficient evidence on the record at this point to conclude that vaccines not only harm individuals, but likely are harming large human populations, and we the undersigned want to erect a biomedical exemption so that this damage can be addressed and stopped;

    Resolved: vaccines do nothing more than a shot filled with water in most individuals vaccinated, and they do not prevent disease (e.g. current wave of whooping cough on the West Coast despite almost 100% vaccination rates reported). Vaccines are essentially worthless and extremely costly programs that absorb billions of taxpayer dollars/year;

    Resolved: vaccines cause small outbreaks/harm populations;

    Resolved: vaccines do nothing to prevent diseases, so disease definitions are changed (e.g. polio or acute flaccid paralysis was changed to “encephalitis” following the institution of the polio vaccine);

    Resolved: vaccines can spread the disease vaccinated against to non-vaccinated people (e.g.passive spread of disease via vaccinations…e.g. acute flaccid paralysis, whooping cough, etc.);

    Resolved: vaccines cause different diseases in humans than vaccines are supposed to immunize against (e.g. leprosy following small pox vaccinations in Hawaii, or syphilis in soldiers vaccinated in California, diabetes, arthritis, autism spectrum disorders, in children vaccinated with a plethora of different vaccines, etc.);

    Resolved: There is a fatal flaw in the concept known as herd immunity. A biomedical exemption should here be established for those parents and other individuals that believe that if car wax works to establish herd immunity, that this is contradictory to believing that vaccines operate to protect the vaccinated. If the shot is believed in as a preventative measure, then it cannot protect those who don’t receive it but should protect those who do receive it….in parallel and as analogy, nobody should be forced to wax their car because if vaccines are believed in, they should protect you and those you love or care about, or anybody else from rust, or disease. Even if the source of germs are from Jonny, the unvaccinated kid at the daycare rather than from the sky or elsewhere, if you believe vaccinating your child will protect from sky germs, then it should protect equally against Jonny’s germs.
    Signed:

    Dr. Andrew Maniotis, PhD.
    Please see additional attached information supporting these ideas on several of these documents, and in books free to the public that can be found at andrewmaniotis.wordpress.com.

  52. Robert Capozzi

    L: Should anyone with any contagious disease be quarantined? Even the common cold?

    me: No, in my judgment, not “any,” and certainly not the common cold. But are there infectious diseases that would lead to a mandatory quarantine? I say probably yes. The Plague comes to mind. Or would you prefer that someone with the Plague should be given an “easement” so he or she can walk through Penn Station?

    L: If not, who gets to decide where “we” draw the line?

    me: Excellent, highly practical question. Currently, civil societies use representative governments for such things. Imperfect, I’d say, and rife with dysfunction.

  53. Mark Herd

    For those of you who think the govt knows best and you trust them with your personal info and needles with knarely chemicles in them, please google: japanese americans 1942

  54. Robert Capozzi

    jp: No more than all the newcasts acting like the world is coming to an end because a little more than 100 people in this vast country have come down with the measles.

    me: Sounds like a Yes, yes? That group’s statement was histrionical, as is the news coverage.

    btw, I’ve not seen reports that the world is coming to an end because of the measles outbreak. Have you, or are you being histrionical as well?

  55. Pingback: Dan Phillips, MD: Why Is the Vaccination Debate So Toxic? | Independent Political Report

  56. paulie

    Jill in Open Thread

    Absolutely, we need to protect whistleblowers. That would apply to pharmaceutical professionals who may choose to speak out against vaccines, also.

    Valid point. Protecting whistleblowers and full liability are two things that I think we should all agree on regardless of how we respectively feel about whether vaccines are generally safe and effective. If anyone disagrees, please explain why.

  57. Jed Ziggler

    Jesse Townley of the Green Party sent this today:

    I am only speaking for myself, not the Green Party of the US.

    Vaccines are a public-health necessity. If we legislate other health requirements like seat belt laws and helmets, then legislating vaccines is logical and will save many more lives than either of those other two existing requirements.

    At the very least, requiring updated vaccines OR a medical explanation* (not a religious or “personal preference” exemption) for public school children is the least that should be required. (*- a medical explanation of a child’s compromised immune system, for instance)

    I flash to this quote, which is applicable in a lot of situations, and which I think is applicable here. (I come from a skeptical, radical political background, so I am NOT saying that authority is always right, just that it’s not always wrong)

    “There are countless societal ills that stem from the fact that previous generations were raised to unreflective acceptance of authority. It’s not hard to argue that unreflective acceptance of authority, whether that authority is the government or industry, is a bad thing. BUT that doesn’t make the converse true. Unreflective defiance is really no different from unreflective acceptance. Oftentimes, the government, or industry, is right about a particular set of claims.”
    http://www.skepticalob.com/2015/01/what-everyone-gets-wrong-about-anti-vaccine-parents.html

    Yours,
    Jesse Townley
    Green Party of the US Steering Committee
    Green Party of California National Committee
    Chair, Berkeley Rent Board

  58. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Thanks for posting that, Jed. I have a few new responses, some with different info. I might possibly either update this article, or make a second one.

  59. paulie

    Jill, if you don’t have time to compile the new batch of replies, feel free to send them to me and I will post the followup.

  60. Steve M

    I continue to support the right of people to be stupid.

    Which pretty much encompasses my opnion of the anti-vaxers. Thankfully my kids are past the age where the anti-vaxers decisions are likely to effect them. I hope that we have enough time before my kids have kids, so that my grand kids are also unaffected by such foolishness.

    Lets see if they tolerate my opinion of them 😉

  61. langa

    From the article Jill linked above:

    “The science is clear that vaccines dramatically protect children against a number of infectious and dangerous diseases,” Mr Brown said in a statement on Tuesday.

    “While it’s true that no medical intervention is without risk, the evidence shows that immunisation powerfully benefits and protects the community.”

    Translation: The ends justify the means (authoritarianism in a nutshell).

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