Darryl W. Perry: Indiana Law has Unintended Consequence

Darryl W. Perry

From Libertarian Party presidential hopeful Darryl W. Perry at Free Press Publications:

I rarely discuss religious topics, however there are times when it must be done. The Governor of Indiana, Mike Pence, recently signed a “Religious Freedom Restoration Act” into law in the Hoosier State. Some people say the law will open the door to discrimination, such as allowing a baker or florist from providing service to a gay couple seeking a cake or flowers for their wedding, or allowing a pharmacist to refuse to fill a prescription for birth control. Supporters of the new law, including Pence, disagree. Pence said, “this law is not about discrimination. If it was, I would have vetoed it.”

However, he has not explained how the bill does not allow discrimination, or even how the bill does allow one to exercise their religious freedom. On ABC’s “This Week with George Stephanopoulos” Pence was asked six times whether under the law it would be legal for a merchant to refuse to serve gay customers, he refused to directly answer the question. Pence said, “This is not about discrimination, this is about empowering people to confront government overreach.” He did say that he will look into a bill to clarify the law’s intent, if the Legislature sends him such a bill.

If the intent needs to be clarified, does that mean the current language is vague? Absolutely! In order to have some understanding of the debate, I read the law. The first 7 sections of the new law are definitions and explanations of terms. The key elements are sections 5, 8, 9 and 11. Exercise of religion is defined as “any exercise of religion,whether or not compelled by, or central to, a system of religious belief.” The law then says “a governmental entity may not substantially burden a person’s exercise of religion, even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability.” Except that “[a] governmental entity may substantially burden a person’s exercise of religion… [if the burden] is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest.” If a person’s “exercise of religion has been substantially burdened, or is likely to be substantially burdened” they may seek relief from the courts. However, the law concludes by stating “is not intended to, and shall not be construed or interpreted to, create a claim or private cause of action against any private employer by any applicant, employee, or former employee.”

So on the one hand, you have a law stating that exercise of religion can mean pretty much anything; and that it can’t be substantially burdened. On the other hand, the law says that exercise of religioncan be substantially burdened if the burden serves a compelling government interest (i.e. for the greater good) and is the least restrictive means of furthering said interest. Additionally, I see nothing in this law that states “a person may not substantially burden another person’s exercise of religion.” Which, to me seems to counter the claims that the bill allows a baker to refuse to bake a cake for a same-sex couple. However, laws are often construed after passage to mean any number of things that were not intended.

One thing that was definitely not intended by adoption of this law, was the backlash from various entities. The Indianapolis Star reports, the CEO of Angie’s List “announced that his company will abandon a deal with the state and city to expand the company’s headquarters in Indianapolis.” And the AP reports, “The Indianapolis-based NCAA has expressed concerns about the law and has suggested it could move future events elsewhere.”

Whether or not the new law in Indiana allows discrimination in the name of religion, it has shown that there are people willing to discriminate against the discriminators.

32 thoughts on “Darryl W. Perry: Indiana Law has Unintended Consequence

  1. David

    “CEO of Angie’s List “announced that his company will abandon a deal with the state and city to expand the company’s headquarters in Indianapolis.” This group wasn’t going to expand unless they received welfare from the city anyway. I hate Corporate Welfare.

  2. Andy

    Lions and Lambs

    Hate Laws, Lambs and Lions

    By Paul Jacob

    “March comes in like a lion, goes out like a lamb.”

    Tell that to Indiana Governor Mike Pence, whose signing of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) into law at the end of March created a roaring controversy.

    Does the law enable discrimination? Or protect religious freedom? Or both? Neither?

    An Associated Press report explains: “Religious freedom laws like the one causing an uproar in Indiana have never been successfully used to defend discrimination against gays – and have rarely been used at all, legal experts say.”

    Of course, discrimination continues. In 2014, a Texas restaurateur refused service to a gay couple. As a FindLaw.com article explains, the 1964 Civil rights Act “only prohibits discrimination on the basis of color, race, religion, or national origin, and says nothing about sexual orientation.”

    So some states, such as New Mexico and Oregon, added legal protections for sexual orientation. But that’s led to reverse violations of rights – facing a $150,000 fine, a bakery closed its shop after the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries ruled it violated a lesbian couple’s civil rights by declining to make a wedding cake; a New Mexico photographer was found guilty of violating the state’s Human Rights law for declining to photograph a gay couple’s commitment ceremony.

    In times’ past, both state and private violence enforced invidious racial discrimination. Thankfully, those days are gone – cafes, hotels and stores are open to all.

    But the civil rights laws that prohibit discrimination in public accommodations cases are distinct from forcing photographers or florists or flutists to personally participate in a ceremony they choose not to.

    This is Common Sense. I’m Paul Jacob.

  3. Andy

    It is a disgusting outrage that a bakery in Oregon had to shut down over some asinine law. The gay couple for whom they refused to bake a cake could have simply taken their business to another bake shop.

    This shows how some of the gay community is not really interested in freedom and equality. They have no right to force a private business to sell them a cake. I could if the establishment was a government entity, like say a public library, but this was clearly a private business.

    Forcing another person to labor for you against their will is slavery.

  4. Andy

    ” I could if the establishment:”

    Should read, “I could see if the establishment….”

  5. Don J. Grundmann, D.C.

    Andy – I am happy that you are one of the few Libertarians who are against the slavery which you refer to but the whole point of the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement is to eradicate their Christian ( moral ) opposition and force everyone to bend their knees and worship the Golden Anus.

    The attacks against Christian businesses are barely beginning with the threats of violence ( burning it down ) against the Indiana pizza business and its customers being the first of a million steps on our way to the New World Order Orwellian dictatorship of which Big Sodom will be a powerful subset. The whole objective of the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement is to break/shatter the nation in service to the Plantation Masters of our nation and the world as a whole.

    Already many people have being fined or even fired from their jobs for expressing the slightest opposition to the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement. Writing on their own Facebook page or making comments against Big Pervert in any other way on their own free time are used as excuses to attack them. An Atlanta fire captain was fired for a book that he wrote and published on his own which defended normal/healthy marriage and hence was against its sick pervert opposite. A minor league pitcher was fined and suspended for anti-pervert comments done on his own time. This has happened many many times.

    I believe that Voltaire said that you will know who rules you by whom you cannot criticize.

    ” Give us Barrabus ” was the Biblical equivalent to our time where the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement seeks to crush any and all possible dissent. The Indiana law threatened the dictatorship and hence had to be attacked and reversed.

    We are supposed to ” tolerate ” them and promote ” diversity ” but such is only a one way street.

    As usual the Constitution Party, in addition to the remaining non-establishment part of the Republicans, will be the last refuge of freedom of speech and liberty. The Libertarians, the majority of them, and all other parties are all in the pocket of Big Sodom. They will, like Obama, lie about their support of free speech while behind the façade they will do everything possible to crush it.

  6. Matt Cholko

    “… the whole point of the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement is to eradicate their Christian (moral) opposition and force everyone to bend their knees and worship the Golden Anus.”

    This is the funniest thing I’ve heard all day. Do you actually believe this crap, or are you just a troll?

    Maybe both, ehh?

  7. Cody Quirk

    The only reason we agree with you on the private enterprise issue Don is because we want government to stop interfering in the personal business of, and with free enterprise in general.

    That’s certainly a approach that’s a thousand times better then scapegoating and attacking certain groups, peoples, and religions for the sake of restoring constitutional liberties for the ‘right type of christian’ only.

  8. Don J. Grundmann, D.C.

    William – Go right ahead and use it if you wish.

    To clarify the comment I note that the Bible refers to the Israelites worshipping the Golden Calf when Moses went to receive the 10 Commandments.

    Fast forward to our time and the socially engineered populace in our developing Orwellian dictatorship is being trained by the Plantation Masters to worship, honor, and ( especially ) obey all things sodomite/pervert.

    Since the sodomite altar, in their religion of Humanism/Satanism, is the anus I simply combined the concepts.

    Quirk – The only attacking group are the sodomites; i.e.; the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement.

    The only group being attacked are Christians.

    Hence there is NO ” scapegoating.” It is just like a Joe Friday cop line – ” Just the facts mam. Just the facts.” And the facts are that Big Sodom, Big Pervert, or Sodom Inc., has, in service to and as lackeys of the Plantation Masters of the nation, declared war on Christianity in our nation. And they are going for the kill.

    If you, or anyone else, REALLY was in defense of private businesses you would not support the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement war machine as you do in so many different ways.

    Hence I must view your, or especially the Libertarian Party as a whole, supposed support of private business as just ” crocodile tears ” as given a choice you would both doubtless choose the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement to support over the plight of small businesses; most especially Christian ones.

  9. Cody Quirk

    Replace ‘Homosexual/Sodomy’ with ‘Jew/Zog’, and Don would make an excellent member of Rockwell’s ANP, or the NSM.

  10. David Terry

    Grundman; you are a sorry excuse for a human being! BUT, despite your irrelevant cliché’s,
    and ignorant dogmas, you ironically prove the old saw that “even a blind pig will occasionally
    find an acorn” For example I’m sure that you would resent a law that required YOU to treat
    a gay, lesbian or bi-sexual individual.

    DG “….the whole point of the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement is to eradicate their Christian (moral) opposition and force everyone to bend their knees and worship the Golden Anus”

    On the contrary, it has ALWAYS been the point of traditional Christian dogmatists to eradicate
    rational discourse on moral issues and force everyone to bend their knees and worship the golden cross in all it’s incarnations.

  11. Don J. Grundmann, D.C.

    DT – A) I will treat anyone afflicted with the soul pathology of homosexuality now. In fact I can treat them better than virtually anyone else as I can aid them not only in the healing of their bodily afflictions but, far far more importantly, the recovery and healing of their soul.

    B) The Christian moral structures of our culture and society have formed the foundations of the greatest, most prosperous, and ( unfortunately relatively ) the freest nation in the history of the world. The English translation of your ” rational discourse ” is your desire to replace the Christian foundations of the nation, which you totally despise, with your own Humanist/Satanist religious beliefs; beliefs which can never, and have never, brought freedom , prosperity, and life but instead slavery, poverty/destitution, and death. You are simply a Private in the Army of Death who, as with your fellow undead, works to spread your Religion of Death as a plague upon humanity.

    The battle between these 2 religions is the war which our nation ( and humanity as a whole ) fights and we have both chosen sides in the battle. All people bend their knees to their Master. You bend your knees before, and worship 24/7, your own Master, The Enemy of God.

    If there is such a thing as a ” Christian dogmatist ” you and your fellow undead will match and beat any one of them with your own ” dogma.”

  12. David Terry

    DG> ” I can aid them not only in the healing of their bodily afflictions but, far far more importantly, the recovery and healing of their soul.

    Are you licensed to practice psychiatry as well as chiropractic? Are you licensed to heal their “souls”, whether or not they wish to be “healed”?

    You clearly suffer from the effects of the seventh and most severe of the seven deadly sins;
    “superbia” ie. excessive pride or arrogance.

    I would ALSO point out that:
    The Treaty of Tripoli (Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary) was the first treaty concluded between the United States and Tripolitania, signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796, and at Algiers (for a third-party witness) on January 3, 1797. It was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797, and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797.

    The treaty was a routine diplomatic agreement. It has attracted attention in recent decades because of a clause stating that “THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION”

    One CANNOT practice ANY religion without accepting and promoting DOGMAS!

    On the other hand, reason, although certainly NOT infallible, is completely none dogmatic.

  13. Don J. Grundmann, D.C.

    DT – A) ” Reason ” is the last thing that you have; except for the delusion/fantasy that you have it. It is simply part of your religion, Humanism/Satanism, to cover itself with a pious claim of ” reason ” and this as a pathetic attempt to both gloss itself over with an ” image ” ( as all Army of Death people do ) and cover up for and excuse its evil foundation and anti-human results.

    Everything you spout out is dogma; especially the pathetic squeak regarding the Tripoli Treaty, something which Army of Death people ALWAYS fart out. Just because John Kerry time traveled to that time and wrote treaty language of betrayal as he does now does not change the reality that our nation was founded and formed upon Christianity; no matter how much you and your fellow liars proclaim otherwise.

    I can aid their healing if they wish to be healed. They can choose, as you have, to give their allegiance, love, and loyalty to The Enemy of God. Their choice. Your choice. For which you, as they, will pay the price for such choice.

    Their sickness, as yours, is far beyond psychiatry as it is a sickness of the soul.

  14. David Terry

    I have neuropathy in my feet and on one past occasion I have suffered from Plantar Fasciitis –
    so I can vouch for the fact that I’ve suffered from sickness of the soles. But, if I have a relapse
    I will call by podiatrist or my neurologist.

    By the way, did you received your medical degree from Oral Roberts University?



  15. Cody Quirk

    “Wouldn’t that make him Robert Milnes?”

    Brother of another mother maybe?

  16. Pingback: Don Grundmann: Worshipping the Golden Anus | The Saturnalian

  17. Cody Quirk

    In the principled fairness of free speech, IPR should feature Will’s piece on Don here.

  18. Martin Passoli

    What does it have to do with free speech? It’s just a Grundmann comment that Saturn turned into an article, with the addition of a disclaimer. Not that I am opposed if someone decides to post it, but I don’t see anything compelling about it.

  19. Cody Quirk

    Grundmann obviously disagrees with Darryl’s take on the Indiana law & homosexuality and says why in detail, therefore it’s article-worthy here, IMO.

  20. paulie

    I’m not opposed to someone posting it if they want to, but I have about 50 other articles I would like to post and not nearly enough time to do it, along with my paying job, OAI stuff, LP social media teams, etc., and the internet at my motel is still not very reliable with the wifi connection, although it seems to be better the last couple of nights. I’ve actually been spending too much time in coffee shops getting online and need to work more hours picking up sigs before Andy and Daryl get them all.

  21. Jill Pyeatt

    I have no interest in ever reading, posting or even acknowledging anything Grundmann says. I prefer to pretend he doesn’t exist.

  22. paulie

    Not a bad policy. In fact some people have said he’s such a johnny one note that he belongs in a quarantined thread.

  23. David Terry

    JP:> “I have no interest in ever reading, posting or even acknowledging anything Grundmann says. I prefer to pretend he doesn’t exist”.

    Don’t you think that he serves the purpose of being the perfect example of a bad example?

  24. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt

    April 7, 2015 at 8:34 pm

    Donn Grundmann is a perfect example of everything I am against.”

    There are actually a lot of issues where you and Don Grundmann are in agreement.

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