Chair and Vice-Chair of the Libertarian Party of Florida Resign Effective Immediately

Libertarian-Party-of-Brevard-County-post-image-original-635394910123192000From an email dated September 30, 2015 from the Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Florida, Adrian Wyllie:

Colleagues,

It has become clear that my attempt to defend the party from the violent Fascists is now perceived by many members to be more dangerous to the party than the threat itself.

Therefore, I resign as Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Florida. I resign from all posts in the LPF. I withdraw my membership in the LPF. All actions are effective immediately.

I once believed this party would always stand unwavering to defend our core principles. I now know there is little left to defend.

Sincerely,

Adrian Wyllie, Chairman

And from the Libertarian Solutions for Florida Facebook page from the Vice-Chair of the Libertarian Party of Florida, Lynn House:

This morning I resigned my position of Vice-Chair of the LPF. My reasons are technical, but you can probably figure it out from reading this page.

Here’s my plan.

I am still a member, still registered Libertarian, still on the National Platform Committee, as far as I know, I’m still Chair of the Membership Committee, and still on the Communications Committee. I haven’t gone far.

The last thing I want is for this Party to divide, so I will divert my attention to creating unity…somehow. Hopefully, with your help.

I prefer to use my time this way than to use it to buck the trend on the EC

Let’s find a way to stand together as proud Libertarians. Where there’s a will…..

Thank you to everyone who spoke to and advised me. That meant a lot. Be assured that things have a way of working out for the best, even now.

These resignations come after an Executive Committee decision on the following motion which was defeated as noted (also from the Libertarian Solutions for Florida Facebook page):

I have made the following motion, and we are initiating an email vote. Please respond with “Yes” or “No”. This is a simple majority vote of members present. For the purpose of this email vote, quorum will be established by the number of EC members responding within 24 hours (by 11:59pm on Monday, 9/28/15). “Abstain” however will not be counted as part of the quorum of members present, per RONR. The quorum will be established by the number of “yes” and “no” votes cast only.

VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE IN THE CHAIRMAN – Motion by Adrian Wyllie
LPF Chairman Adrian Wyllie has spoken strongly against Libertarian U.S. Senate candidate Augustus Invictus, and against LPF members who have affiliations with known neo-Nazi and white supremacist organizations. Wyllie has done so without specific authorization of the LPF EC. He has expressed (and he reaffirms here) that he will continue to speak for the LPF on these matters, even without approval from the EC. Therefore, he exceeds his authority as LPF spokesman. I hereby move that Adrian Wyllie be asked to resign.”

This morning the results of the vote were announced. 10 of 18 people voted, all were opposed to this motion. In doing so the EC expressed support for the Chair’s actions.

Prior IPR posts regarding the various controversies surrounding U.S. Senate candidate Augustus Invictus can be found here.

EDIT TO ADD: Here is Vice-Chair House’s resignation email dated September 30, 2015:

Because 10 member of the EC have voted to support the Chair’s position that he may speak for the LPF on matters of his personal opinion without approval from the EC, and in doing so have willfully voted to violate Bylaw provision Article III, Section 3a and Standing Rule Article VIII, Section 1.

Because this is the second time the LPF has ignored its own rules, the first time being at convention when the delegates ignored provisions for previous notice.

Because our bylaws are a contract with the membership.

Because fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair gain.

and

Because initiating fraud is a violation of the NAP

I find that the LPF EC has knowingly violated the terms of a contract and has defrauded the membership, thereby violating the NAP.

Therefore, I am in good conscious compelled to resign my position as Vice-Chair of the LPF EC, effective immediately.

It is not my intention to resign my membership or change my voter registration. I would like to remain Chair of the Membership Committee and active on the Communications Committee.

For Liberty,

Lynn House
Vice-Chair

This entry was posted in Libertarian Party and tagged , on by .

About Caryn Ann Harlos

Caryn Ann Harlos is a paralegal residing in Castle Rock, Colorado and presently serving as the Communications Director for the Libertarian Party of Colorado, Colorado State Coordinator for the Libertarian Party Radical Caucus, as well as Region 1 Representative on the Libertarian National Committee. Articles posted should NOT be considered the opinions of the LPCO, LPRC, or LNC nor always those of Caryn Ann Harlos personally. Caryn Ann’s goal is to provide information on items of interest and (sometimes) controversy about the Libertarian Party and minor parties in general not to necessarily endorse the contents.

253 thoughts on “Chair and Vice-Chair of the Libertarian Party of Florida Resign Effective Immediately

  1. Mike K

    First.

    As I stated on a few LPF Facebook pages earlier:

    Earlier today I received a $1000 pledge should I choose to run for US Senate as a Libertarian. Although I doubt I’ll go that route, If enough LPF friends and members want it, I would be willing to serve in a leadership role until next years convention, at which point new leaders could be elected by the delegation.

    I do this because of what I was reminded a few years ago when the then LPF “Leadership” was trying their best to remove me from the party, and my friends and colleagues told me “Hang in there, you’ll need to pick up the pieces when these people self destruct and alienate their own allies”.

    However, this is conditional on some great individuals not running themselves, as they would do a much better job themselves. I’m confident in their ability, and if they do not choose to run, I will step up. Additionally, I am planning to run for State House in FL here next year, and wouldn’t want to hinder ballot access efforts around the time of the state and national conventions with duties in a leadership role.

  2. paulie

    Zachary Elijah Proscia Silva
    28 mins

    So with the LPF randomly exploding on a day I was paying attention, I’d like to announce my candidacy for Chair, and/or Vice-Chair. I promise as your chair to bring us back to “the good old days” where Mike here was the most controversial person in the LPF.

  3. paulie

    Meanwhile at https://www.facebook.com/groups/lpfsolutions/ which is where most of the prior discussions came from

    Alison Foxall
    57 mins · Edited

    It is clear to everyone that this group is no longer serving to elevate The Libertarian Party of Florida nor libertarianism as a whole. This group has been marked for deletion. I will begin removing all members and follow with removing myself. You may get in touch with us officially at our Facebook page Libertarian Party of Florida or on our website at LPF.org

    I highly encourage members on committees or in leadership roles to join our Slack chat: http://lpf.org/chat

    She is the communications chair.

  4. Chuck Moulton

    Anyone have a full list of candidates for the chair and vice-chair positions?

    With Facebook and Meetup it’s important to be very careful who admins pages and groups. In Pennsylvania an ex- state chair deleted a lot of Facebook and Meetup resources that were entrusted to him.

  5. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    I edited the article to contain the resignation email from Vice-Chair House as well.

  6. paulie

    Omar E. Recuero
    11 mins · Edited

    We are fixing things on the Executive committee, everything is going to be fine. We are still a party and not going anywhere.

    Zach, thanks for offering to step up, that’s what we need right now, more people, who want to be here and dedicate their time to help.
    Like Comment

    Seen by 9
    You, Zachary Elijah Proscia Silva, Stephanie Wallace Davenport, Greg Bowen and 3 others like this.
    Comments
    Zachary Elijah Proscia Silva

    Zachary Elijah Proscia Silva I would have ran against Adrian earlier this year actually but I got accepted to the StartupBus Challenge, so I did that instead of convention. I decided overall it’d be better for me and the LPF that I run later, as the experience and knowledge gained on the bus was definitely worth it.
    Like · Reply · 1 · 7 mins · Edited

  7. paulie

    Mike Kane
    1 hr

    Earlier today I received a $1000 pledge should I choose to run for US Senate as a Libertarian. Although I doubt I’ll go that route, If enough LPF friends and members want it, I would be willing to serve in a leadership role until next years convention, at which point new leaders could be elected by the delegation. Karl Dickey Suzanne Gilmore Pierre Crevaux Donald Sheldon Vicki Kirkland Steven Nekhaila Sacha Penson DuBéarn Abigail Warwick DuBéarn Jo Ann Vaccarino Jodi McMasters Paulie Cannoli Jote’ Thompson
    Like Comment

    You, Jo Ann Vaccarino and Jason Oakes like this.
    Comments
    Tommy Frain

    Tommy Frain I’m not in the EC, but can I second Mike’s stepping up?
    Unlike · Reply · 1 · 1 hr
    Tommy Frain
    Tommy Frain ????
    Unlike · Reply · 1 · 1 hr
    Jeff Billman
    Jeff Billman Thank you, Mike.
    Unlike · Reply · 1 · 1 hr
    Mike Kane
    Mike Kane I’ve heard that a few good people may step up, and in that case, I’d gladly take a back seat to them.
    Like · Reply · 1 hr
    Mike Kane
    Mike Kane However, if these individuals do not run.. Here’s the short of my LP involvement.

    Chairman – Libertarian Party of the Florida Keys (Founding Chair and organizer 2014-Current)…See More
    Like · Reply · 1 hr
    Greg Bowen
    Greg Bowen I support your Senate run and you stepping up to the EC
    Unlike · Reply · 3 · 1 hr
    Mike Kane
    Mike Kane Thanks Greg Bowen. As Chair of my local affiliate and in an official role, I’ve contacted Mr. Wyllie urging him to reconsider his decision.
    Unlike · Reply · 3 · 9 mins

  8. paulie

    Anyone have a full list of candidates for the chair and vice-chair positions?

    With Facebook and Meetup it’s important to be very careful who admins pages and groups. In Pennsylvania an ex- state chair deleted a lot of Facebook and Meetup resources that were entrusted to him.

    Good idea. I posted all the ones I have seen so far.

  9. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    I wish they would both reconsider. I like Lynn and Adrian both and think this is a terrible loss for the LPF.

  10. paulie

    Zach Silva:

    Since the LPF has exploded on a day I’m paying attention, I’ve decided to come forward to offer some order and officially announce my intent/candidacy for the Chair of the Libertarian Party of Florida.

    I offer my party a platform based in three principles: Rational, Skeptical, Millennial.

    Rational: Our rhetoric must make sense, it may not be hyperbolic, and our goals must be achievable. Everything must be backed by evidence, and controversies will be thoroughly and openly dealt with.

    Skeptical: All information provided by the party will meet the highest scientific and journalistic guidelines, we will put guidelines over headlines.

    Millennial: The Libertarian Party is youthful, with more traction in the millennial demographic than any other, our written tone, our leadership and spokespeople should represent and be the faces of that fact.

    I open the floor to questions at this time.

  11. paulie

    Dave Anderson 9:33pm Sep 30
    I’m brand new to the LPF, do not know any of these people, and have no idea what the drama is about. So, I’m willing to accept a nomination.

    Dave Anderson 9:38pm Sep 30
    Registered earlier this month. Joined LPF and National LP a few months ago, seems like the NAP was part of those.

  12. Jed Ziggler

    While I appreciate all these people stepping up to run for chair and/or vice chair, what the LPF really needs is a candidate for Senate. Would it be possible to beat Invictus as a write-in in the primary?

  13. Joe Wendt

    The Party has been developing a festering wound for a while due to multiple poor decisions by previous leaders. Wyllie has been exacerbating and poking at the wound lately due to his attacks on one Party member in particular. As far as I am concerned, he actually did the responsible thing and resigned, and hopefully the Party can now begin to heal this wound, fix its internal problems, and grow.

  14. Mike K

    I will be authoring an email to the LPF EC regarding the appointment process tomorrow. I will be suggesting that they do not appoint anyone hastily. Since delegates typically elect Chair, Vice Chair, and other members at convention, there ought to be a fair amount of outreach done to current members to see which direction they would like to go. Perhaps an email or mail ballot is in order.

  15. Austin Cassidy

    So the Libertarian Party of Florida has now lost both of their 2014 statewide candidates due to nonsense and in-fighting. Wylie’s 223,000 votes for governor last year was a tremendous feather in the party’s cap… I had hoped they would build on that run in 2016.

    The whole thing is a shame.

  16. paulie

    So the Libertarian Party of Florida has now lost both of their 2014 statewide candidates due to nonsense and in-fighting. Wylie’s 223,000 votes for governor last year was a tremendous feather in the party’s cap… I had hoped they would build on that run in 2016.

    The whole thing is a shame.

    Agreed.

    Especially concerning since the national convention will be there.

  17. paulie

    While I appreciate all these people stepping up to run for chair and/or vice chair, what the LPF really needs is a candidate for Senate. Would it be possible to beat Invictus as a write-in in the primary?

    To my knowledge no. Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I think that was the answer I got earlier.

  18. Bondurant

    Given that “fascist” was used, does this mean Invictus has substantial support among the LP ranks?

  19. Joe Wendt

    Paulie, per the Governing Documents, the date of the election of Chair/Vice-Chair is specifically stated (odd numbered years). You can’t have a special election to file those positions without amending the governing documents. Technically, the Secretary would/should become Acting Chair until that time (either the expiration date of the term, or the governing documents are amended) with the power to appoint people to the vacant Vice-Chair and the three (possibly 4) vacant regional rep positions.

  20. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Joe,

    I am not familiar with your rules, but if those are the rules, for God’s sake, I hope they are followed…. we don’t need more people thinking rules are broken.

  21. Andy

    “Austin Cassidy

    September 30, 2015 at 10:30 pm

    So the Libertarian Party of Florida has now lost both of their 2014 statewide candidates due to nonsense and in-fighting. Wylie’s 223,000 votes for governor last year was a tremendous feather in the party’s cap… I had hoped they would build on that run in 2016.”

    Considering who the two Senate candidates are, losing them as candidates is not a bad thing.

  22. Andy

    “Jed Ziggler

    September 30, 2015 at 10:52 pm

    Mr. Cassidy meant their 2014 candidates,not the Senate candidates.

    “paulie

    September 30, 2015 at 10:53 pm

    Wyllie and Wohlsifer… not Stone and Invictus.”

    Oh, well this is a shame.

  23. paulie

    Paulie,

    I am sorry… I do not follow…

    Joe Wendt left the LP and is supporting Santorum now.

    Unless you meant my reply to Andy J, see above.

  24. paulie

    I just addressed Caryn’s use of the word your as it related to you and the LPF. It is a fact that you are a Republican Santorum supporter now. Unless that changed again in the last few weeks?

    I do know you were involved in LPF before so maybe you are correct about the governing documents.

    However, no one else was saying that on the LPF FB group, they were all saying the EC will pick replacements so candidates were stepping forward. I don’t know, for all I know you are right and no one else noticed.

  25. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Perhaps Joe can post the portions he is talking about.

    (don’t be Oregon…)

  26. Jed Ziggler

    “I agree that remains a very important issue as well.”

    It’s THE issue. The LPF has two Senate candidates. One is a dangerous egotistical psychopath who would do irreparable harm to the party if he were nominated, and the other is Augustus Invictus.

  27. George Phillies

    The report seems to say that the chair unanimously won a confidence vote, and therefore resigned. Perhaps someone would care to discuss this further? Perhaps I am being slow and misreading the report?

  28. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    George,

    I don’t get it either.

    (and it was unanimous from those that voted… 8 didn’t vote)

  29. paulie

    He won the confidence vote but continued to get criticism and blew up and resigned. He thought the criticism needed to stop the minute he won that vote. From what I gathered anyway.

  30. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Libertarians…. criticism needs to stop.

    *One of these things is not like the other* LOL

  31. Steve M

    I seem to be missing something….

    Adrian Wyllie proposed a motion of no confidence against himself and the vote was 10 of 18 against the motion. Doesn’t this imply the EC has confidence in Adrian Wyllie?

    VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE IN THE CHAIRMAN – Motion by Adrian Wyllie

    So having won a vote against the no-confidence, where he was the proponent of no-confidence against himself he resigned!

    What would he have done if had won the vote? that the EC had agreed they had no-confidence in him?

    I am scratching my head over this logic.

    Is there a philosopher in the house?

  32. paulie

    Not naming the author because I haven’t asked about publishing and it was in an email not a website:

    Adrian told me he resigned because, in his view, bad elements were infiltrating the LPF and people weren’t protesting it enough to stop it. He felt the the LPF would eventually be damaged due to the media coverage that would ensue, and he didn’t want to be part of it. Augustus Invictus is apparently involved.

  33. Steve M

    Label this highly speculative

    As I recall the Florida Libertarian Party has a way of vetting their candidates before the primary. Is it possible that the chair had taken a position against a candidate but the the vetting comittee wasn’t going to agree?

  34. Jill Pyeatt

    Jed said “One is a dangerous egotistical psychopath who would do irreparable harm to the party if he were nominated, and the other is Augustus Invictus”

    Hilarious!

  35. Jill Pyeatt

    This is really awful. Perhaps everyone can step away for a few days, and reconsider. Perhaps there’s a better solution than both Wyllie and House resigning.

  36. Steve M

    Paulie,

    This is the argument that I use for letting registered voters of a party make the decision whom their candidates are and whom their party officers are instead of some small self selected group. It is far easier to infiltrate and take over a small group then it is to take over a larger movement.

  37. Wang Tang-Fu

    Jed said “One is a dangerous egotistical psychopath who would do irreparable harm to the party if he were nominated, and the other is Augustus Invictus”

    Hilarious!

    I wish it was.

  38. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt

    September 30, 2015 at 11:55 pm

    This is really awful. Perhaps everyone can step away for a few days, and reconsider. Perhaps there’s a better solution than both Wyllie and House resigning.”

    I agree. I hope that Wyliie and House return.

    I am astounded that all of this is over some screwball who should not even be considered as a candidate for the party.

  39. Dana Moxley Cummings

    The EC voted that they do have confidence in the chair (Adrian Wyllie)
    The vice chair (Lynn House) resigned due to that motion.
    The chair resigned shortly after due to continued pressure that his stance against an unvetted senate candidate who used the Fascist banner as his logo and believes he is a prophet whose purpose is to lead a war (Augustus Sol Invictus)

    The secretary (Char-lez Braden) is now acting as temporary chair.

    According to Fla statues. The state must be notified in 5 days of officer changes. I suggested that the secretary request from the state, 90 days to fill the vacancies. The state requires the vacancies to be filled by the EC or the party will disolve. The treasurer and secretary can be the same person without having to disolve.

    Hope that clears some things up.

  40. paulie

    This is the argument that I use for letting registered voters of a party make the decision whom their candidates are and whom their party officers are instead of some small self selected group. It is far easier to infiltrate and take over a small group then it is to take over a larger movement.

    Why do you think the registered voters would be any less likely to pick an Invictus or Stone than the convention delegates?

  41. Steve M

    The registered voters are not necessarily less likely to pick one fool over another…. but that it takes a larger number of committed fools to swamp the larger population of registered voters.

    I first personally observed this effect in 1980 in Tennessee Democratic politics where congressional district caucuses were swamped with bus loads of teachers. This is where the delegates to the national democratic convention were selected. It was a case of which ever faction is most capable and motivated to turn out participants wins. Common voters and party members be damned.

  42. Andy

    “Wake Up

    October 1, 2015 at 12:48 am

    How about Augustus Invictus for chairman. Or how about Don Black who also lives in Florida or Marcus Faella. Top notch libertarians. Don Black owns the famous Stormfront website and is a top Ron Paul donor and close confidante.”

    How about getting the fuck out of here with your bullshit, government troll?

  43. Andy

    “:Wake Up

    October 1, 2015 at 1:18 am

    You r the government troll. And your little pet piggie too! Israeli government I bet.”

    Cut the crap you piece of shit. Anyone who follows this site knows that you are a coward and a troll. This is why you hide behind fake names.

  44. George Phillies

    Lynn House was entirely transparent in her position. The Chair position was more obscure. Thanks to many above for confirming that the report was correct in its details and what else was going on.

  45. Joe Wendt

    Caryn, Steve is correct, however for practical purposes the acting chair will actually select the individuals who will be appointed (confirmed by the rest of the ec) fill the vacancies.

    I would also point out that Dana is wrong in that the Secretary and Treasurer can be merged. Although permitted under state statute, the LPF governing documents prohibit such a merger.

  46. Daniel Hayes

    Thanks for making me have to run out to my SUV to get my copy of RONR to cite while I am trying to sit here relaxing in my nightwear…. thanks…
    Libertarians REALLY need to quit running our party on Facebook and online. Says the guy about to post online…

  47. Daniel Hayes

    On another note..While Florida was “burning” last night, I attended a debate/candidate forum with 3 Republicans and the Libertarian and it seems the Libertarian won. And I am the cynical realist. It had about 50 people in attendance and based on the number of people that left with his signs and that stayed around speaking to him, I’d say he won.
    The bad news is..the guy that didnt show along with the woman that was there with the singsong responses she read are both supported by the PAC that just took in $750k in donations from a handful of people.
    BUT… We did not get embarrassed at this forum..AT ALL. Now..bad to the technical aspects of whats wrong related to this post’s “topic”..this will take a while to get ready.

  48. Adrian Wyllie

    It appears I owe everyone a better explanation of my resignation.

    I made the motion for a vote of no confidence in my handling of the Augustus Invictus situation, and offered to resign over my vocal opposition to him. The vote was was 10 “no” votes and 8 “abstain”. From prior conversations, I knew that all the “abstain” votes did not support me. After the vote, one of the “no” votes advised me they disapproved of my actions, but didn’t think it rose to the level of calling for my resignation.

    So, essentially, it was a 9-9 tie vote on my handling of the situation. Half the EC wanted me to remain as chair, but also wanted me to remain silent about Invictus.

    I could not, in good conscience, remain silent about a self-described Fascist who has vowed to start a civil war while masquerading as a LPF candidate. I knew that I would continue to speak out against him. And, after that vote, I knew I would be doing so contrary to the majority will of the EC.

    My personal ethics prevented me from remaining chair and remaining silent. I could not do both.

    Therefore, while no formal vote was made, I essentially cast the tie-breaking vote. It was the right choice for me to resign.

  49. Phil

    This may sound critical but Adrian leaving as chair could eventually be a good thing.
    As a party chair he was devisive and wanted to use force to mold the party in a way he say fit and it really did slow growth.

    However, I think he was a very good candidate and would have as much or more support if he continued to run again.
    I continue to feel he was not a good chair but was a very good candidate. Being chair or a candidate is too much for one person. Trying to do everything was never a good thing for the party.

    I really hope to see Adrian run again, get even more support and continue to be even more successful as a candidate while leaving the nasty party business to others.

  50. LPF fails again

    Adrian was an amazing candidate for governor but he was a shit tier chairman for the party. He, Snitker, and Danielle did their best to alienate county affiliates and/or individuals who weren’t part of their kliq.

  51. Bonnie Scot

    @Steve M, re: “The registered voters are not necessarily less likely to pick one fool over another…. but that it takes a larger number of committed fools to swamp the larger population of registered voters.”

    The Dem/Dem example you gave is very different from a party that can be swamped by a small percent of activists from another party trying to take over the LP line. They have people to spare compared to us. Does the “Stormfront Nation” have sufficient numbers to swamp the LP at the Florida polls?

    What are residency and party registration requirements there? I’ve seen NY, where it was a year and a bit to change parties, to Vermont, which only has “party registration” one or two days of the year, when you pick up a primary ballot.

  52. George Phillies

    Dear Adrian,

    That makes complete sense. Sorry that you are having that problem. I confess that the original article read as though something had become scrambled.

    George

  53. Steve M

    Bonnie,

    The LPF 2015 convention had 99 voting deligates. But you can’t just show up and be a deligate so you would have to work your way through the LPF red tape.

    There are about 24000 registered libertarians in Florida. The democrats in a primary had 17% of their registered voters participate. So using that number you might get 4000 votes in a primary election.

    The FLP has 3 different documents Bylaws, constitution and standing rules.

    By laws

    Section 3. Delegates

    Section A. Delegates shall be members as prescribed in ARTICLE II of the Constitution on the day of commencement of the annual business meeting and a delegate must have been a registered Libertarian voter in the state of Florida for the immediate 60 days prior to the start of the annual business meeting. Delegate status may be denied by a 2/3 majority vote of the Executive Committee if a potential delegate has been found to have violated the non-aggression principle

    B. Each delegate must sign the Libertarian Party of Florida Affirmation of Qualifications for Delegate form

    C. Credentials: Each affiliate chair shall be responsible for submitting a list of delegates from his/her county to the Secretary of the LPF at least 45 days prior to the start of the general business meeting of the convention. Each Regional Representative of the LPF shall be responsible for submitting a list of delegates from each unaffiliated county in his/her region, to the Secretary of the LPF at least 45 days prior to the start of the general business meeting of the convention. Individual members may submit their own names to the Secretary of the LPF. The Secretary of the LPF, or his/her authorized representatives, shall be responsible for verifying the membership and voter registration requirements of each delegate.

    So a group in theory could switch registration to the libertarian party 60 days ahead of a meeting and then submit their names as deligates 45 days ahead. What would the LPF executive comittee do if 200 people they didn’t know did this?

  54. Andy

    Adrain Wyllie said: “Therefore, while no formal vote was made, I essentially cast the tie-breaking vote. It was the right choice for me to resign.”

    It is a shame if you also went as far as quitting the party over some nutty candidate.

  55. Mark Axinn

    I too think it is a terrible shame that Adrian had to take this action at this time. (I do not know anything about Ms. House so cannot comment with any authority on her resignation, but I do know the value of hard-working and supportive Vice Chairs to assist the Chairperson.)

    Adrian was a terrific candidate for Governor and a good, articulate and principled spokesman for libertarian ideals. I hope he continues in that role and that LPF, our third largest affiliate and the host of next year’s national Convention, recovers quickly from this loss of leadership..

  56. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Adrian,

    We have had some very good discussions over the past few months, and I am sorry that you resigned. I won’t presume to tell you what was the right decision for you (resign or not), but I do offer one critique that I hope you take in the spirit in which it is intended. Your resignation letter was a fireball intended to leave destruction in your wake… and that bothers me. I hope you can see your way clear to back track on some of that and remain involved and doing so much good for liberty in the LP and in particular in the LPF. The consensus is that you were an awesome candidate. I do not wish to see that legacy wasted. I hate seeing great activists leave… and I hope that is not what your letter meant.

  57. paulie

    It appears I owe everyone a better explanation of my resignation.

    I made the motion for a vote of no confidence in my handling of the Augustus Invictus situation, and offered to resign over my vocal opposition to him. The vote was was 10 “no” votes and 8 “abstain”. From prior conversations, I knew that all the “abstain” votes did not support me. After the vote, one of the “no” votes advised me they disapproved of my actions, but didn’t think it rose to the level of calling for my resignation.

    So, essentially, it was a 9-9 tie vote on my handling of the situation. Half the EC wanted me to remain as chair, but also wanted me to remain silent about Invictus.

    I could not, in good conscience, remain silent about a self-described Fascist who has vowed to start a civil war while masquerading as a LPF candidate. I knew that I would continue to speak out against him. And, after that vote, I knew I would be doing so contrary to the majority will of the EC.

    My personal ethics prevented me from remaining chair and remaining silent. I could not do both.

    Therefore, while no formal vote was made, I essentially cast the tie-breaking vote. It was the right choice for me to resign.

    I understand your position. Your previous notice also said that you were not just quitting the chair position but the party as well, and I noticed you left the FB group, although that part is moot since the group is being shut down/replaced anyway. I really hope you are not quitting the party. I would love to see you run for US Senate. If there is no way you would be willing to consider that I would love to see you go all out to recruit and support a candidate other than Invictus or Stone. I’m not doing well financially right now (see http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/09/oklahoma-petitioners-videotape-orders-to-leave-public-spaces-call-for-prosecution-of-illegal-removals/ and discussions in comments) but I’ll offer at least a token donation and moral support/publicity if a better candidate can be found.

    As a sunshine advocate, I also hope that the full extent of Invictus’ connections to white supremacist, racist, neo-nazi, fascist and violent revolutionist groups is made available soon along with a detailed cases against him based on his own recent statements made within the last year or two, with all the evidence compiled in one place for public view, along with whatever response Invictus has. It is my understanding that a file of information is being compiled but is not ready for public release.

  58. Sean Scallon

    “It is a shame if you also went as far as quitting the party over some nutty candidate.”

    I agree I wish he would reconsider. If the EC of the LPF wants to get rid of you, then they need to make that decision to do so, not hide behind abstentions. Come out in the open and say so!

    The bigger question is this: Do you see the Democrats or Republicans go through crap like this? Even on the state or county level? That’s why they are major parties. Invictus is not the nominee of LP for the U.S. Senate, not yet anyway. He hasn’t been elected by anyone yet and the LP is responsible for him. He’s a fringe candidate and would be ignored if it wasn’t for the fact in state millions no one is stepping up to run for the U.S. Senate for the LPF. Don’t you think a state party chairman has the right to speak out when a fringe candidate is the only one willing to run for the party line for major statewide office? It’s their responsibility for crying out loud! The Dems or the GOP would not tolerate someone who is basically an open Fascist winning their ballot line for lack of candidates or because they inadvertently win a primary. They would disavow them and not help them and there are clear examples of them doing this in the past. Why is the executive committee then undermining the chair’s authority to prevent their party from being a playground for extremists? Hmmm? Because it’s not in the rules? You’ve got to be kidding me!

    When the day arrives that LP becomes a serious major party that will be the day when its leaderships, national, local and statewide stops thinking like they’re in a debating society and start acting like an organization trying to do its best to win votes. These kinds of childish games are letting a lot of people who want to vote for the LP down in a serious way. You condemn them to be imprisoned by the majors by acting this way. Think about that.

  59. Daniel Hayes

    Sean, opinions are like..ya know..everybody has em..but have you read for the rather extensive vetting process for LPF candidates found in the bylaws? There was a process and Mr Wyllie seems to have not aided by that. Based on my readings of their bylaws and these correspondence, there was a lot of fast and lose with the LPF bylaws, which like most LP state affiliate bylaws contain many poorly worded provisions. I am working on one post still that keeps changing as I get more info about the “Vote”… But that’s just my…ya know..opinion..

  60. Daniel Hayes

    I was trying to say abided by that not aided by that..I really want a edit button on here…but ya know..people would be changing stuff as people responded..meh…

  61. Mark Axinn

    >Don’t you think a state party chairman has the right to speak out when a fringe candidate is the only one willing to run for the party line for major statewide office? It’s their responsibility for crying out loud!

    Sean, IMO the proper thing for the State Chair to do is to quietly and privately convince a better candidate to run. For five years I successfully chaired an affiliate almost as large as FL. Call me crazy, but I did not always shout my opinion out loud.

    Invictus is not the LP candidate for US Senate from FL. He’s just the first guy to officially announce he wants it. (Stone announced that he won’t announce until next year. if at all.) None of us believe that only the currently announced candidates for POTUS (i.e., not Gary Johnson) will be only the prospective candidates by the time of the LP Convention.

    If I were LPF Chair, I would have been soliciting a Libertarian (again call me crazy) to seek the Libertarian nomination.

  62. Wes Wagner

    “f I were LPF Chair, I would have been soliciting a Libertarian (again call me crazy) to seek the Libertarian nomination.”

    ^THIS

    And run for the office yourself if you have to as a last resort and let the voters decide.

  63. Daniel Hayes

    The opinions I am going to make on this matter come from my authority as a Parliamentary Geek and not in any capacity as my role as Region 7 Alternate Representative to the LNC.

    I think I am going to try and cover what I see as “wrong” from a Parliamentary standpoint piece by piece in separate posts otherwise it will be like War and Peace. Also, I want to say, like most LP State Affiliate bylaws, LPF’s are vague and poorly worded.

    The Motion by Adrian Wylie:

    I have made the following motion, and we are initiating an email vote. Please respond with “Yes” or “No”. This is a simple majority vote of members present. For the purpose of this email vote, quorum will be established by the number of EC members responding within 24 hours (by 11:59pm on Monday, 9/28/15). “Abstain” however will not be counted as part of the quorum of members present, per RONR. The quorum will be established by the number of “yes” and “no” votes cast only.

    VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE IN THE CHAIRMAN – Motion by Adrian Wyllie
    LPF Chairman Adrian Wyllie has spoken strongly against Libertarian U.S. Senate candidate Augustus Invictus, and against LPF members who have affiliations with known neo-Nazi and white supremacist organizations. Wyllie has done so without specific authorization of the LPF EC. He has expressed (and he reaffirms here) that he will continue to speak for the LPF on these matters, even without approval from the EC. Therefore, he exceeds his authority as LPF spokesman. I hereby move that Adrian Wyllie be asked to resign.”

    This morning the results of the vote were announced. 10 of 18 people voted, all were opposed to this motion. In doing so the EC expressed support for the Chair’s actions.”

    LPF doesn’t seem to have any rules relative to Email voting that I recall seeing. You really SHOULD have well defined rules specific to email if you intend to use it. Robert’s in general strongly frowns upon email voting because it is not conducive to the deliberative process.
    “It is important to understand that, regardless of the technology used, the opportunity for simultaneous aural communication is essential to the deliberative character of the meeting.” RONR(11th ed.) p.98, ll.11-14.

    Mr. Wyllie does seem to have the authority to initiate an email vote.” though HOW that vote takes place does not seem to be clearly defined in the LPF bylaws and definitely isn’t covered in Robert’s

    When Mr. Wyllie states that: “quorum will be established by the number of EC members responding within 24 hours”. This seems to be out of order because LPF bylaws defines a quorum as, ” A quorum of the Executive Committee shall be eight (8) members of the Committee.” LPF Bylaws, Article III, Section 4.C. He can’t arbitrarily declare one. Additionally, quorum requirements generally are not going to apply to emails. Emails at best seem to be covered under the following section”
    “The Executive Committee may without meeting, conduct business by communication, voting on questions put to them by or with the approval of the chairperson. Such vote shall be kept by the Secretary until the next meeting and then such vote shall be incorporated in the minutes. A majority vote of the committee shall prevail. If a majority of affirmative votes is not recorded within fifteen (15) days, the question will have failed to pass” LPF Standing Rules, Article III, Section 2.
    It says a MAJORITY VOTE OF THE COMMITTEE. Robert’s is pretty explicit on what a Majority vote means. It simply means more than 50% of those votes cast a certain way when a quorum is present. You don’t have members “Present” by email. You might say by stepping out on a limb that PRESENTING a response on the matter would make one “present” but that really isnt defined here and DEFINITELY not in Robert’s.
    I think this isn’t what LPF was trying to say. So does it mean the actual members without respect to vacancies? Does it mean the entire committee which includes vacant seats? I think they may be trying to say that a majority of the actual committee members without regard to vacant seats voting “YES” will carry the measure as soon as that threshold is reached. That all is going to depend on their precedent/custom and interpretation.
    That said if that’s the case, the NO’s seem to have reached the needed threshold of a Majority Vote of the committee. Getting further into minutia with my assumed interpretation, the part that states, “If a majority of affirmative votes is not recorded within fifteen (15) days, the question will have failed to pass” makes not mention of negative votes reaching the “majority”. So the condition of a majority of affirmative votes had not been reached so the motion based on how this bylaw provision is worded was/is still active.

    Mr Wyllie, however put a 24 hour time limit on the vote and that seems to clearly be out of order. There was no notice, which would be out of order. Notice is usually considered by most organizations that use Email to be built into the time limit on the vote, which is in this case 15 days. He also set his own quorum requirements which would be out of order if it applied. It seems he declared the vote over before the 15 days, which was out of order. Is it a continuing breech? It’s just a resolution suggesting someone do something. Where would a point of order be raised? If this had been left to wait until the next meeting it could have been handled with a lot more clarity.
    He then resigned. WHICH..is a whole other matter for another post.

    This all once again illustrates why LP affiliates do it yourself bylaws are a problem. People really need to consider hiring disinterested Professional Registered Parliamentarians to draft the bylaws at their direction. It’s REALLY much cheaper in the long run.

    more to come..eventually.

  64. Daniel Hayes

    ““Abstain” however will not be counted as part of the quorum of members present, per RONR.”

    I have no idea what he is talking about RONR says nothing of the sort.

  65. Joe Wendt

    Daniel Hayes, not to beat a dead horse, but Wyllie has had a long history of not following RONR. Hopefully, the LPF will finally abide by it.

  66. Thane "Goldie" Eichenauer

    Giver that some of use are just simple city mice that might not be up on the latest of acronyms and modern organizational shorthand I wanted to mention that references above to Robert’s and RONR more than likely is meant to refer to:
    Robert’s Rules of Order Newly Revised, 11th edition
    http://amzn.com/030682020X
    as the bylaws URL above refers to “Robert’s Rules of Order as most recently revised”

  67. Daniel Hayes

    Let’s now take a look at all the various provisions found in the LPF bylaws regarding candidates.
    LPF Constitution. LPF clearly has a lot of rules relative to candidates running for political office. I have even left a few of the very minor provisions out of here and may have missed one or two others.:

    ARTICLE III Officers, Executive Committee & Standing Committees
    Section 5. Selection Committee12

    A.The Selection Committee shall consist of five (5) members, elected at the Annual Business Meeting from diverse regions of the state. Vacancies on this committee occurring after the Annual Business Meeting may be filled by the Chair with the approval of the Executive Committee.
    B. The Selection Committee shall be responsible for establishing guidelines the committee will follow when contacted by, or presented with, information in regards to any Florida candidate who seeks certification by the LPF.

    1.The Selection Committee shall establish minimum criteria which a prospective candidate must meet before obtaining approval from the Selection Committee and shall specify this criteria in the Standing Rules.
    2.The Selection Committee shall recommend candidates to the Executive Committee for certification who have been approved for recommendation by majority vote.
    3.The Selection Committee shall make regular reports to the LPF Executive Committee
    C.The Selection Committee shall perform its duties according to Article IV, Section 5C of the Bylaws.

    Section 9. The Candidate Committee
    The Candidate Committee shall be appointed by the LPF Chair and approved by the Executive Committee and shall consist of at least five (5) members of the LPF. The principal duties of the Candidate Committee shall include but not be limited to identifying potential Libertarian Party candidates, directing and preparing potential candidates for review by the Selection Committee, to train vetted and approved Libertarian Party candidates for their respective races, and to identify and train campaign staff members to serve on the campaign staff for vetted and approved Libertarian Party Candidates. Should other duties of the committee arise which are not already specifically listed in this section, the Chair may make a motion as such to the Executive Committee or the LPF Chair for their approval before taking action as a committee. The Chair of the Candidate Committee shall present regular reports on the committee’s work to the Executive Committee.

    Bylaws:
    ARTICLE I Objects and Purposes

    Section 1. The LPF shall not initiate any political action in a county affiliate’s political domain. except get out the vote, voter registration drives, fundraising, or establishing new county affiliates.vetting and supporting multi­county or state wide candidates for office. The LPF may provide additional support to candidates seeking to serve a district fully contained in a county with the affiliate’s permission, or if there is no affiliate in that county.1 2

    Standing Rules:

    ARTICLE IV Election of Officers, Directors, Candidates

    Section 1. All candidates for office and political office may be asked to confirm certain basic principles before the convention This may be delegated to the Selection Committee for candidates for party office (including Delegates to the National Convention of the Libertarian Party and Presidential Electors) and to the Candidate Committee for Candidates for political office, and includes confirming that they are members of the State Party and registered to vote in the state as Libertarians.

    Section 2. All candidates for officers, representatives, and political office shall file intention forms with the Selection Committee or with the secretary if nominated from the floor. These will be provided by the committee.

    Section 3. Such forms should be on file before the Executive Committee names a person to fill the vacancy.

    Section 4. Candidates nominated must be able to serve if elected.

    ARTICLE XIII Political Candidates

    Section 1. The Libertarian Party of Florida may provide financial and logistical campaign support, and conduct campaign activities only for Certified Libertarian Candidates.

    Section 2. The Executive Committee is responsible for approving candidates who are vetted by the Selection Committee to run for public office. Candidates who have been both vetted by the Selection Committee and approved by the Executive Committee shall be known as Certified Libertarian Candidates. Certified Libertarian Candidates are eligible to receive financial and logistical campaign support from the LPF in accordance with applicable Florida and Federal law, and strictly at the discretion of the Executive Committee of the LPF in accordance with the Bylaws and Standing Rules.

    *******************************************************************************************************
    With all this involved in how the LPF selects it’s preferred candidate, I think what Mark and Wes stated are the right ways to go about handling a candidate that you do not like running with an L next to their name. ALSO..the fact that if the Selection committee and the Executive Committee did not find a candidate satisfactory in their vetting process that would be something to hang their hat on at that point. Until that point, I think it WAS out of order for the Chair to speak on the matter for the organization. Not that I get a vote, I am just stating my opinion. Additionally, Florida even has a primary system that can have another candidate run against a perceived “less desirable” candidate.

    Once again, I think that now, the option exists that Mr Wagner pointed out. Mr Wyllie is now free to run for this office himself.

  68. Mark Axinn

    >Once again, I think that now, the option exists that Mr Wagner pointed out. Mr Wyllie is now free to run for this office himself.

    Sounds like a great idea. But I wouldn’t have quit as Chair without first assuring for a smooth transition to my successor. Too late for that in Florida LP.

  69. Andy

    Daniel Hayes said: ” Mr Wyllie is now free to run for this office himself.”

    He’d be a much better US Senate candidate for the LP than the two guys who are seeking the nomination now.

  70. paulie

    Adrian has said he needs to take a sabbatical from politics because all the political work has been wearing him out and cutting into family time. He will take the time to decide whether he wants to retire from politics or come back to it later.

  71. paulie

    Adrian Wyllie
    5 hrs · Palm Harbor, FL · Edited ·
    By now, some of you have probably heard that I have resigned as Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Florida. I feel I owe many of you the courtesy of an explanation for my decision.

    I have been extremely outspoken against Augustus Sol Invictus, who is currently the only candidate for the Libertarian U.S. Senate nomination. My strong opposition to him has put me in conflict with the LPF Executive Committee.

    Mr. Invictus has repeatedly vowed that it is his destiny to start a second civil war in America. In a 2013 memo to his colleagues, he wrote, “I have prophesied for years that I was born for a Great War; that if I did not witness the coming of the Second American Civil War, I would begin it myself.”

    He has described himself as an American Fascist, and even his campaign logo is nearly identical to that of Benito Mussolini. He has displayed swastikas in his published campaign materials.

    He has expressed support for a eugenics program, which would sterilize, euthanize or forcibly abort “the weakest, the least intelligent, and the most diseased.”

    Many of his supporters are known members of Neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups, such as American Front, Vinelanders, and Stormfront, and he has been recruiting them into the Libertarian Party.

    In a private, face-to-face meeting with Mr. Invictus, I asked him directly, “Do you actually intend to kill millions of people and start a civil war?” His answer to me was, “It’s my religion.”

    I would never disparage anyone on the basis of their religion. But, since Mr. Invictus cites his religion as the motivation for his violent intentions, I believe it must be scrutinized.

    Mr. Invictus practices Thelema, an occult pagan religion based on the teachings of Aleister Crowley. Mr. Invictus was ejected from Ordo Templi Orientis for brutally and sadistically dismembering a goat in a ritualistic sacrifice.

    Even the legally-changed name he chose for himself is revealing. August Sol Invictus is Latin, and translates to “The Unconquerable Sun God.”

    Mr. Invictus is extremely charming and persuasive in person, and is a talented public speaker, which makes him all the more dangerous.

    Clearly, this man is the absolute antitheses of a Libertarian. Violent Fascist and Neo-Nazi ideologies are completely incompatible with Libertarian values. As such, I had repeatedly and vocally disavowed him and his followers. I advised the LPF that I would continue to speak out against him, regardless of the consequences.

    The majority of the LPF Executive Committee believed I should remain silent, and simply allow the primary election process to play out. That is something I was unwilling to do. While no one on the Executive Committee openly supported Mr. Invictus, only a few had the conviction to stand openly against him.

    I strongly believe that we must ensure that these violent ideologies are not associated with the Libertarian Party in any way. Libertarians should always be the first to rise up against hatred, subjugation, and violence.

    Since, I could not in good conscience remain silent about this man or his followers, I had no choice but to resign.

    It is my sincere hope that the Executive Committee of the LPF reverse their position, and provide the new leadership with the authority to disavow and nullify this clear and present threat to our party, our nation, and our freedom.

    I write this in an attempt to convince the LPF that it must recognize the evil it faces, and have the courage to resoundingly reject it.

  72. paulie

    Special Announcement!
    Chair & Vice Chair Resign
    Hello Paul,

    Due to circumstances beyond our control, I regretfully inform you of the resignations of two key Executive Committee officers. Adrian Wyllie, Chair, and Lynn House, Vice Chair, have both stepped down from their positions effective immediately.

    As Secretary, I have assumed the role of Interim Chair until new officers are elected, which may be as soon as October 4th, during our Executive Committee meeting.

    It is my intention to focus the Executive Committee to the task of filling these vacant offices and resuming the important work of organizing counties and fielding top grade candidates to run for public office.

    While the Executive Committee service of both Mr. Wyllie and Mrs. House has been exemplary and will be missed, several experienced and capable individuals have indicated their desire to fill these very important roles. I am confident that the Executive Committee will do everything it can to ensure that the transition will be a smooth one.
    In Liberty,

    Char-Lez Braden
    Interim Chair
    The Libertarian Party of Florida
    lpf.org

  73. Thane "Goldie" Eichenauer

    Certainly Augustus Sol Invictus will be measured by all words that he has written and spoken. The Sunshine State News article manages to include many of them. It does happen to end with “Sunshine State News tried to reach the Invictus campaign at a number listed at the campaign website but it was out of service. Sunshine State News also emailed the Invictus campaign but no response came before the deadline.”

  74. A Roger Stone Production

    This whole thing strikes me as an elaborate Roger Stone production. It’s too bizarre to be anything else.

    From Adrian’s rather strange Executive Committee motion against himself to his dramatic, if not theatrical, resignation as the LPF chair the other day could all be part of a ploy to convince naïve LPF members to rally around one of the greatest dirty tricksters in American politics — a guy who is certainly no friend of the Libertarian Party. (IPR readers might want to ask Warren Redlich and New York’s Mark Axinn a little bit more about that.)

    The fact that Marc Caputo, a former Miami Herald reporter, was the first to chime in with a sympathetic story about Wyllie’s abrupt resignation from the Libertarian Party sort of says it all. That wasn’t a coincidence.

    Caputo has a history of planting stories originating from Stone. Caputo, incidentally, was the same guy who quickly came to Stone’s defense in early August when the longtime Republican consultant was allegedly canned by the Trump campaign, asserting that good old Roger had actually quit and wasn’t fired. As if that would be a blemish on his record.

    In any case, Roger’s latest Machiavellian scheme appears to be working. In the past day or two dozens and dozens of Adrian’s heartbroken supporters have been clamoring on Facebook and elsewhere that they need somebody to stop the “evil” Augustus Invictus….another Stone creation, perhaps?

    If you think about it, Augustus might be the only person in the country who could make Roger Stone seem politically attractive.

    One shouldn’t put anything past him…

    Stone is setting himself up to be the party’s savior, when, in fact, he’s probably determined to destroy it. Let’s be honest, garnering nearly a quarter of a million votes in a gubernatorial campaign has a way of getting the GOP’s attention, particularly in a competitive state like Florida.

    Whether Wyllie is a witting accomplice or not, Florida Libertarians are being played by one of the best in the game.

    For Christ’s sake, Roger Stone is a lifelong Republican operative — one of the shrewdest in their arsenal. That’s how he’s always made his living.

    The LPF should tread carefully.

  75. paulie

    Production:

    While I have no concrete evidence, I have been wondering the same thing. Didn’t know Caputo’s part in this – thanks for filling that in.

  76. Mark Axinn

    >Marc Caputo, a former Miami Herald reporter…..

    Any relationship to Michael Caputo, the Roger Stone protege who ran Carl Paladino’s 2010 Republican campaign in New York?

  77. paulie

    I sure would like Tom Knapp’s take on all this.

    Knapp commented in some or maybe all of the invictus threads if you put that in the IPR search box. I think he said Invictus was the lesser evil compared to Stone. Knapp also had some good things to say about Wyllie in the past, while stipulating that he is relatively new to Florida and hasn’t really gotten involved in the party inside games there yet. Otherwise, unless he happens to notice this thread you may want to ask him in the ones where he has already commented (he often subscribed to the comments on those), email him, or ask at Kn@ppster.

  78. Adrian Wyllie

    If Roger Stone is somehow behind Invictus, I’ll make it my mission in life to expose it.

    For full disclosure, I did ask Roger to run for U.S. Senate to oppose Invictus. I also asked several other high-profile Florida Libertarians with the means to fork over $10K for ballot access. All the others declined, and I still don’t know if Stone will actually run.

    It was any port in a storm. The (former?) GOP dirty trickster, who I couldn’t trust as far as I could throw him? Or, the guy who wants to start a second civil war, and I believed he was dead serious about it.

    What would you do?

    But, as far as my role moving forward, I will be on complete hiatus for the foreseeable future.

  79. Jill Pyeatt

    If I do get a reponse to the questions I sent Invictus a couple weeks ago, I will do my best to get some answers to some questions about this latest brouhaha. He may wait until this blows over, though, if he responds at all.

  80. Jill Pyeatt

    Adrian, I hope you’re able to get some well-deserved rest.

    We’re always here, should you decide to send us something to post in the future.

  81. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    So you say Joe. I find Adrian’s email there completely appropriate. Invictus needs to be thoroughly and absolutely repudiated.

  82. paulie

    FYI for the folks who may not see the IPR search box or know how it works here are the past Invictus threads:

    http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/09/thread-for-questions-to-augustus-invictus-senatorial-candidate-hopeful-for-the-libertarian-party-of-florida/

    http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/09/augustus-invictus-official-response-to-the-criticisms-of-chairman-wyllie/

    http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/08/augustus-invictus-calls-for-total-insurrection/

    http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/07/augustus-invictus-a-declaration-of-the-failings-of-the-federal-government/

    http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/06/possible-florida-libertarian-us-senate-candidates-roger-stone-augustus-invictus-respond-to-critics/

    http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/05/augustus-invictus-announces-libertarian-candidacy-for-florida-u-s-senate-being-vacated-by-marco-rubio/

    http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/08/matt-wright-why-i-wont-vote-for-just-any-libertarian/

  83. paulie

    So you say Joe. I find Adrian’s email there completely appropriate. Invictus needs to be thoroughly and absolutely repudiated.

    Seconded.

    Adrian, I hope you’re able to get some well-deserved rest.

    We’re always here, should you decide to send us something to post in the future.

    Seconded as well.

    It’s true, the women really are smarter 🙂

  84. Chuck Moulton

    Joe Dirt wrote:

    Wyllie: Invictus was kicked out of his religion for performing a sadistic goat sacrifice ritual.

    Invictus: That’s a lie! It wasn’t a goat.

    That reminds me of my favorite Mike Tyson quote…

    Mike Tyson: They called me a rapist and a recluse… I’m not a recluse!

  85. paulie

    Does anyone have more details and sources on exactly what the details of the animal sacrifice rituals were that got Invictus booted from OTO? Did they in fact include ritualized sadistic dismemberment followed by killing?

  86. Ron

    How, when and where will the selection process for Senate take place? Is none of the above still an option?

  87. paulie

    Primary election administered by the state at the same time as the Democrats and Republicans (iirc March but I would have to check). NOTA is not an option. NOTA would only be an option, in fact the only option, if no one pays the state fee (~$10,000) or signature equivalent. Invictus has either already paid it or is believed to have the money available.

  88. Joe Wendt

    @ Caryn & Paulie,

    So, it’s appropriate for Wyllie to criticizes the actions of the EC, and continue to give Augustus free media (which is counter intuitive to “destroying” him), while the LPF has to scramble to fill in the 5 or 6 vacancies his behavior and his resignation caused. His actions have done considerable harm to the LPF, and serves to make himself a martyr while the LPF bleeds in the streets because of his actions. It’s highly inappropriate.

  89. Sean Scallon

    “It was any port in a storm. The (former?) GOP dirty trickster, who I couldn’t trust as far as I could throw him? Or, the guy who wants to start a second civil war, and I believed he was dead serious about it. What would you do?”

    That’s like trying to choose your method of suicide. I feel your pain.

    Here’s rub for the LPF: If no one else runs you’re stuck with the would-be D’Annunzio (the father of Italian Fascism) as your Senate nominee. There’s no chance in the world he’s making any kind of statewide debate. He will become a punchline and and made example in the mainstream media of how unserious and silly the LPF is. But the real danger is his candidacy will encourage extremists to join the party and see it ripe for the taking because of the lack of leadership. And you think you’ve got divisions right now?

    It’s amazing how the LP continues to draw these kind of nutballs, and I’m not talking Starchild/Chief Wana Dubie types . I’m talking real hardcore Nazis and racists. And for what? What is there in the libertarian ideology or platform which says that someone like David Dike would be an ideal candidate? Less government? You’ve got to be kidding me! You want to see what a real “big government” looks like go study Nazi Germany.

    For the LPF to essentially run off its chairman because he was “vocal” about keeping the party out of the hands of Stormfront or had “violated the rules” by speaking out just remember if Invictus wins the primary you indict yourself by your silence. If you let legalism and Roberts Rules of Order make moral cowards of you, then you won’t have much of a party left to run. Instead of building you will be wasting your time trying to get the rats out of the barn. It’s your choice and you have been warned and if a year from now if members of the LPF EC resign because of something Invictus said or did running as their party’s nominee, then they deserve all contempt.

  90. Steve Scheetz

    “For the LPF to essentially run off its chairman because he was “vocal” about keeping the party out of the hands of Stormfront or had “violated the rules” by speaking out just remember if Invictus wins the primary you indict yourself by your silence. If you let legalism and Roberts Rules of Order make moral cowards of you, then you won’t have much of a party left to run. Instead of building you will be wasting your time trying to get the rats out of the barn. It’s your choice and you have been warned and if a year from now if members of the LPF EC resign because of something Invictus said or did running as their party’s nominee, then they deserve all contempt.”

    Perfectly stated Sean Scallon!

    Sincerely,

    Steve Scheetz

  91. Andy Craig

    If Emperor Crazypants is the Libertarian nominee for U.S Senate, not only will that be disastrous for Florida, it could quite easily harm the entire national party’s vote totals. There are always a handful of candidates that attract some national attention and coverage– Wyllie was one of them in 2014. Does anybody in the LP want Invictus to be our most-covered non-pres. candidate in 2016? Anybody here looking forward to MSNBC hosts snickering at the crazy Libertarians and their insane racist candidate? Comfortable with ASI’s “it wasn’t a goat!” defense being the object of a report on Fox News?

    Without going down the ugly road of the LNC itself intervening in a strictly state-party affair, individuals in the national party and other states more broadly should be concerned about the possibility. This isn’t some nutjob running for county dogcatcher, it’s the big high-profile statewide race in one of the biggest states in the country. Finding another candidate to defeat him in the primary (and just as importantly, making sure they have the support to do so over the uninformed donkey-vote that will just pick the funny name) is imperative. I’m not a huge fan of Stone, but if he’s the only other option then it isn’t even a close call.

  92. Mark Axinn

    Adrian wrote:
    >For full disclosure, I did ask Roger to run for U.S. Senate to oppose Invictus. I also asked several other high-profile Florida Libertarians with the means to fork over $10K for ballot access. All the others declined, and I still don’t know if Stone will actually run. It was any port in a storm.

    Ah, so Adrian had already done exactly what I said I as a state chair would do in his position, except that I would not approach Stone; he looked for another candidate behind the scenes.

    A very difficult position. It is unfortunate that the brouhaha had to be so public. I wish LPF and Adrian peace and an easy transition to a new Chair.

  93. Daniel Hayes

    So people would have the Florida EC violate the rights of others, because you disagree with them? Just throw out any rules you have? Doesnt Anarchy mean an absence of rulers, not an absence of rules? Instead what you have here is some want a bunch of “rulers” to act in a tyrannical fashion and throw out the rules because you don’t like one particular person.
    Then because some wish to follow the rules and not rulers you want to excoriate them. Seems backwards.

  94. Mike K

    What’s missed in this whole thread are a few things.

    1. Will Augustus Invictus ultimately qualify for the ballot?

    2. I’ve been outspoken about LPF funds not being used to pay for ballot access for candidates, but if Augustus does get on the ballot, that would be a good time to use some of the party money to primary him.

    3. Fundraising. I wrote a 5 page fundraising letter for the the LPF EC to use last year around this time. It wasn’t used. A much weaker and shorter letter went out, and it came from former Chair (Dana Cummings). I don’t know if it even made money. When I was on the EC (before I wrote this letter, I didn’t seek re-election), my repeated calls for fundraising letters fell upon mostly deaf ears. How nice would it be to have an extra $10,000 in a rainy day fund for just this purpose. Instead, previous EC’s have voted to spend money on T-shirts. What a frivolous waste of money.

  95. steve m

    Mike,

    Invictus, has some serious explaining to do before justifying spending money on his behalf. Perhaps you have the funds yourself to primary him?

  96. George Phillies

    As a positive first step, Libertarians across America should follow the example of North Carolina and replace Roberts with Francis and Francis. 64 pages, large type, big margins, includes an example of a meeting as a transcript.

    And then we should recall that major decisions are basically political.

  97. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    George,

    Is that what you recommend for a County Affiliate? (it seems yes you would, just want clarification)

  98. Mike K

    Steve M,

    When I said “primary him”, I meant spend party money for a different candidate’s filing fee so as to force a primary.

    But, if he does qualify for the ballot, and with no challenger, he will be the U.S. Senate candidate. And now, with the party Chair quitting… the media will report more on the negative aspects of his campaign because it’ll make a good story…should he be the candidate.

  99. Mike K

    And at this time, unless someone or some entity wants to pay the filing fee (and NO ONE else will be a placeholder), I will not run for U.S. Senate. I am planning a state house run next year. Getting my name on the ballot first, and then going from there.

  100. lol

    But this party [Libertarian Party] plagiarizes some of my ideas, mixes it with the exact opposite—with religionists, anarchists, and every intellectual misfit and scum they can find—and they call themselves Libertarians and run for office.

    –Ayn Rand

  101. steve m

    Mike k.

    Sorry, I miss interpreted what you said. Thanks for the clarification.

    As a mater of principle I personally don’t believe that state parties should be picking one candidate over another and that includes paying the filing fee. Candidate’s can of course raise money for doing so. If you find a good candidate I would be happy to chip in.

    So with respect to the filing dates you have a pretty small window of time June 20th to June 24th 2016 so you can’t be reacting to what Invictus does. You need a good candidate primed and ready and the cash raised. So 9 and a half months.

    I would like to see you somehow draft Dave Barry as your Senatorial Candidate..

    “Barry confessed a few years ago that he’s a raving libertarian—just the kind of dyspeptic crank who would take pleasure in thumbing Washington in the eye. Give him 14 inches twice a week and let him write whatever he wants. Why settle for another graying libertarian when you can have a libertarian who makes booger jokes?”

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_middlebrow/2005/01/dave_barry.html

  102. Thomas L. Knapp

    “I sure would like Tom Knapp’s take on all this.”

    Sorry, but I don’t really have one. “Roger Stone Production” introduced some new angles I hadn’t thought about, though.

  103. Chuck Moulton

    Matt Cholko wrote:

    I’ve got $500 for Mike Kane’s filing fee for US Senate, if he decides to take the plunge.

    I’ll pledge $250 for that purpose.

  104. paulie

    But this party [Libertarian Party] plagiarizes some of my ideas,

    Funny shit, coming from a big time unacknowledged plagiarist…

  105. paulie

    Ayn Rand’s Dream?
    This Satanist Wants To Be Your Senator by Gideon Resnick
    “He wants to cut the federal budget, scale down American intervention in foreign countries and believes immigration needs to restricted.”

    She was an immigrant, so….

  106. paulie

    Instead, previous EC’s have voted to spend money on T-shirts. What a frivolous waste of money.

    I thought they made money selling them?

  107. steve m

    right write 14 inches… they want to get Dave Barry to write the editorial column for the New York Times.

  108. paulie

    I think Andy makes great sense.

    In everything but the conclusion. Sorry, there is nothing that will make Invictus an excuse for Stone, or vice versa. Keep in mind too that this where we will have our national convention.

  109. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Paulie, as compared to Invictus, I think Andy is right.

    Perhaps my mind will be changed but even Stone instead of Invictus.

    Of course someone entirely else is what’s needed. We’ve stepped up with pledges.

  110. steve m

    I make an argument for people to vote their conscience, to vote libertarian or green or peace and freedom or socialist instead of the two major parties. The argument is that as Jerry Garcia said constantly selecting the lesser of two evils is still selecting evil. Stone has some major karmic debts before he isn’t evil. I suggest finding a better candidate.

  111. Darcy G Richardson

    That’s really generous of Matt, Chuck, Steve, Caryn Ann and Paulie. Needless to say, they’re a few of my favorite Libertarians. Though I’m not a party member, I’ll chip in, too. The LPF desperately needs an alternative in this race — perhaps even a real libertarian running for the U.S. Senate.

  112. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Daniel, you are right but people tend to think only in Judeo-Christian terms and in particular in Christian terms in which anything that isn’t one of the “major” world religions (and in some circles even those) then it is satanic. Which to them may be theologically true in their worldview, but it is a terrible way to classify.

    It is a pagan religion…

    And FWIW I do not care what his religion is.

  113. paulie

    as Jerry Garcia said constantly selecting the lesser of two evils is still selecting evil.

    I’ve heard the saying but not the Garcia connection.

  114. William Saturn

    @Thane Eichenauer, October 3, 2015 at 6:24 pm

    I saw The Daily Beast story about this in Google News. It directly links to The Saturnalian. I believe it is the first mainstream publication to do so.

  115. Matt Cholko

    I’m listening to the LPF call right now. They spent 45 minutes talking about eliminating a Facebook group, actually considered a motion to support Florida’s top-two initiative (thankfully, it failed unanimously), did a few other little things, and are finally considering revocation of Mr. Invictus’ membership.

  116. Thomas L. Knapp

    I’m glad that the LPF executive committee acted soberly instead of giving in to hysterics/histrionics. Especially, but not only, because said hysterics/histrionics just might have Roger Stone’s fingerprints all over them.

    On the other hand, I wish that Mr. Invictus would fuck off and go find a party more in tune with his stated ideas.

  117. Thomas L. Knapp

    Caryn,

    Right now they are considering a motion to censure, under which the chair would be allowed to engage in public communications vis a vis Invictus and how FUBAR he is.

  118. Thomas L. Knapp

    Glad that’s over with.

    Of course, it isn’t over with.

    Expect a “the roof is on fire” blitz by the Forces of Stone, possibly using Wyllie again, with or without his overt knowledge (I decline to suspect the worst of him absent further evidence).

  119. paulie

    They also appointed officers. Char-Lez Braden, the former secretary who was left as acting chair following the resignations of the chair and vice chair which were formally accepted at this meeting, appointed himself as chair and was (I believe unanimously) endorsed by the EC to stay on as chair.

  120. paulie

    After some discussion, they voted to transfer Libertarian Solutions for Florida to its creator, Lynn House, with the stipulation it will no longer be or purport to be an official LPF group representing the party. The threat of deleting the membership list and archives was averted. Lynn appointed various people as moderators of the group. The same was done with another group or page that I did not recall having seen, although I may have, started by another guy whose name I forgot who has since moved to NH.

  121. paulie

    After the call was (I think) officially adjourned – ie the call was still going but the recording ended and they were no longer in a formal meeting – Greg Bowen came on and said he had additional information about Invictus from FOAI requests to various government agencies but could not share all the info because it was in hard copy and he does not have a scanner. He will try to get it to the new chair.

  122. paulie

    If I understood him right some of the agencies refused to comment saying that to answer any question would give things away – which generally means that they may well have active investigation(s) and could be closing in on arrests – but they did not say that. Again, this was my understanding of what was said.

  123. paulie

    It was a 3 hour call… all but the very end was recorded, and I *think* I have read that these recordings are public. Presumably there will also be written minutes but I don’t know when.

  124. paulie

    Augustus Invictus 9:46pm Oct 4
    Because the FBI spoke to my girlfriend last Friday. Because the US Marshals have interrogated my family and have stopped me at the federal courthouse multiple times. You might not be as familar with their investigation tactics as you think.

  125. ADrian Wyllie

    @Thomas Knapp

    You keep speculating there may be some alliance between me and Roger Stone, or that he is using me as some kind of unwitting accomplice. I assure you that your conjecture is false. My actions have been completely dictated by my personal principles, ethics, and my duty to defend the integrity of the LPF.

    I have absolutely no association with Roger Stone other than having contacted him in an effort to find a challenger to Invictus. As I previously explained, I contacted numerous other Florida Libertarians with the same request. Stone was the only one who agreed to run.

    Now that I’m no longer associated with the LPF, and will not be involved in any 2016 campaigns whatsoever, I ask that you kindly stop referencing my name in connection with Roger Stone.

  126. Thomas L. Knapp

    Mr. Wyllie,

    How can you assure me that you’re not an unwitting accomplice? The word “unwitting” means that you don’t know, so your assurances on that point can’t possibly be valid.

    It is entirely possible for your actions to be completely dictated by your personal principles, ethics, and duty to defend the integrity of the LPF, but for those principles, ethics, and duty to be gamed by someone else without your knowledge.

    In particular, Invictus’s candidacy is for many of us — including, obviously, you — somewhat like a red cloth held up in front of a bull. It’s obvious we’re going to charge, so the possibility exists that someone is supporting/putting up that red flag for the purpose of getting us to do exactly that.

    Please believe me when I say that I am going out my way not to question your motives or honesty, and sticking to the “unwitting” part, even as regards Stone.

    On that count, I am assuming that prior to contacting him, you had just heard his name and somehow missed the fact that he is an inveterate enemy of the Libertarian Party who has only and ever engaged with the party when he sees a chance to do it significant harm. I suppose contacting him about running for Senate is better than contacting David Duke or Lyndon LaRouche, but not by much.

    Now that you know better, hopefully you’ll apply your principles, ethics and duty to him as you have to Invictus.

  127. Andy

    “paulie

    October 4, 2015 at 9:48 pm

    If I understood him right some of the agencies refused to comment saying that to answer any question would give things away – which generally means that they may well have active investigation(s) and could be closing in on arrests – but they did not say that. Again, this was my understanding of what was said.”

    I wonder if by “giving things away” they meant that they did not want to admit that Invictus and involved with this mess in the Libertarian Party of Florida are government plants.

  128. paulie

    Augustus now: “I did sacrifice a goat. I know that’s probably a quibble in the mind of most Americans,” he said. “I sacrificed an animal to the god of the wilderness … Yes, I drank the goat’s blood.”

    Augustus 5 days ago http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/florida/2015/10/8578511/libertarian-party-drama-goat-sacrifice-eugenics-and-chairs-resignati

    “I have never dismembered a goat in my life. I have performed animal sacrifices as part of my religion,” Invictus said. “I was expelled from the order for political reasons. And animal sacrifice was part of it. But that is a deliberate misrepresentation by Wyllie.”

    So at least now no one can say that he is not a liar, whatever else he is.

  129. Thomas L. Knapp

    “So at least now no one can say that he is not a liar, whatever else he is.”

    On the basis of that quote, yes they can.

    “Sacrifice” and “dismember” are not the same thing. I don’t know the details of the sacrifice he participated in, but most animal sacrifices I’ve heard of do not involve dismemberment.

  130. Thomas L. Knapp

    There was video of the goat sacrifice?

    Did it depict any dismemberment, or was it the usual kind of sacrifice (throat slit, then things differ — some pagan and African religions involve drinking the blood; old-style Jewish sacrifice involved burning the animal; etc.)?

    Anyway, I was making a very narrow point:

    1) Invictus admitted to sacrificing a goat;
    2) Invictus denied dismembering a goat;
    3) The two statements are not themselves mutually exclusive.

  131. paulie

    There was video of the goat sacrifice?

    Yes, some of the articles already linked in this thread mention there was video. It says the sacrifice took around 15 minutes. If anyone has a copy of the video saved please let us know.

  132. Phil

    Maybe Adrian is working for Invictus as his press secretary .

    Dude never got so much press until his hissy fit. Was hoping dude would not make it on the ballot and go away and anyone who cared about the party would have done there best to just ignore him so he got as little press as possible so people who don’t know who we are don’t get confused and think he represents Libertarianism. Now that Adrian is sending press releases about him dude is in the news. Adrian is doing the job of press secretary for the Invictus campaign.

    I find Invictus funny. Whatever he is doing is entertaining. The only problem is if he somehow gets on the ballot and people think he represents us. Best just to ignore him.

  133. Jill Pyeatt

    Invictus is making national news. When I opened a FB page when I got to work, one of the articles in the newsfeed about what’s trending is about him.

  134. Andy Craig

    I think the flood of coverage, part. the AP wire story that went out, merits its own post. Also this from Wyllie on Facebook:

    Adrian Wyllie
    5 hrs · Palm Harbor, FL ·
    The motion to expel Augustus Sol Invictus from the Libertarian Party of Florida failed in the Executive Committee meeting last night on a 5-7 vote.
    I applaud those five party leaders who took a stand against this fascist infiltrator bent on civil war. I find it tragic and disheartening that the majority of the LPF leadership failed to stand up and defend the most basic Libertarian principles. Instead, they hid behind misinterpretations of rules and procedures to justify their lack of conviction.
    The LPF EC did pass a motion on a 8-5 vote to issue a press release condemning some of Invictus’ campaign statements, but the motion prohibits the LPF from divulging whether or not the LPF supports Invictus.
    In the past 12 hours, at least two county parties have dissolved or disassociated with the LPF, and other affiliates are also considering doing so.
    Whether by infiltrators’ design or by attrition, I fear Florida’s Party of Principle is no more. Words can barely describe my disappointment.
    ###

    I’m heading out the door to go run some errands, but if nobody else has posted it, I’ll do so when I get home.

  135. Andy Craig

    Tribune wire report, rather. Not AP. That’s what most of these source are reposting, with the headlines about drinking goat blood, etc.

  136. Jill Pyeatt

    I sent Invictus an email about an hour ago reminding him that we’re waiting for his answers.

  137. Steve Scheetz

    Seriously, I am embarrassed that a chapter of the LP could allow this buffoon to continue in his destruction of the credibility of the party. The story is hilarious to anyone without a vested interest in growing the LP… I still have to deal with questions regarding Lyndon LaRouche, and he was not even part of the party… the LP even has to have a portion of the FAQ devoted to distancing itself from LaRouche…

    I am pretty sure we will be dealing with distancing ourselves from this douche for decades.

    Sincerely,

    Steve Scheetz

  138. Steve Scheetz

    “The LPF has not endorsed Augustus Invictus and has not provided him with any support. Under the law, we cannot prevent him from running as a Libertarian and he is not required to enter our certification process.”

    Is this right? If so, how do the Republicans and Democrats keep the bogus candidates off of their ballot?

    Second question, what is the point in having a political party if the political party cannot name political candidates? If the above is the way things are, then we have a huge issue, and that huge issue has nothing to do with Agustus Invictus… He is a sneeze by comparison!

    Sincerely,

    Steve Scheetz

  139. paulie

    Alex Vidal on FB:

    Someone should be copy-pasting the LPF press release rebuke of Goat Killer into the comment section of each article covering this.

  140. Thomas L. Knapp

    Caryn,

    All my Garrison Center stuff (and all my KN@PPSTER stuff, and everything else I write, with the exceptions of works for hire that I turn over to the customer and then forget about) is published under a Creative Commons CC0 Public Domain Dedication — it’s free to anyone to do anything they want with. So you never have to ask 😀

  141. Thane "Goldie" Eichenauer

    How much of the anti-Invictus crowd is on the opposition team because of he killed a goat? I don’t know about the rest of you but I eat meat and so by proxy have paid to have numerous fish, sheep, chickens and cows butchered to satisfy my dietary choice. If the Libertarian Party has become a party dedicated to animal rights over human rights please let me know so that I can make alternate plans.

  142. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Not me. I don’t care what someone’s religion is. And Old Testament Israelites killed animals all the time. A Christian can’t read their Bible and be terribly squeamish about that.

  143. Thomas L. Knapp

    Thane,

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see some “animal rights” concerns raised by various people, but my impression is that the angst with the goat sacrifice thing is that Invictus is apparently a practitioner of a very non-mainstream religion and very much public about that religion and that practices.

    I don’t expect the reaction would be that different if someone who was very publicly, say, a Scientologist or a Santeria cleric.

    Probably not a regular Mormon unless he was overtly trying to push it on people (as Mike Huckabee tries to push his brand of Christianity, which does get a reaction in some quarters), but if it was a member of one of the wilder offshoots of the main Mormon church, that would probably get people going.

    There’s a difference between “I support freedom of religion” and “I’m comfortable with a candidate for whom a strange and scary (to the public) religion is a central public image theme.”

  144. Thomas L. Knapp

    Caryn,

    If you’re referring to the column, consider “explicit consent” granted.

    If you’re referring to anything else, the Xena costume might need to be put in play first.

  145. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    ==If you’re referring to anything else, the Xena costume might need to be put in play first.==

    And this is one reason I love Libertarians.

  146. paulie

    Thane,

    Are you kidding me?

    My opinion of Invictus was already well-formed way before he let the goat out, and hasn’t changed one bleat.

    The part about the goat that was somewhat disturbing was not that he killed it, nor that it was part of his religion, it was that he allegedly took 15 minutes sadistically dismembering the goat as part of a ritual sacrifice and that there was allegedly video of this at one point.

    However, the problems with Invictus range far beyond the goat issue into eugenics, immigration, the rights of women and minorities, Jews, nazis, fascism, racism, civil war, and other assorted and related matters.

    If anyone is trying to tell you otherwise they must be trying to get your goat.

  147. Chuck Moulton

    Tom Knapp wrote (in his column):
    http://thegarrisoncenter.org/archives/3206

    Florida’s Libertarians should be free to bury Caesar, rather than potentially forced to seemingly praise him.

    I found myself wanting to adapt the “but Brutus is an honorable man” speech to this situation. I can’t quite make the parody work… my best attempt does not cast “Augustus Invictus” as “Caesar”, but rather as “Brutus”. Who is “Caesar”? Perhaps Adrian Wyllie (death could be resignation). Perhaps “libertarianism”.

    Julius Caesar speech (unedited… no parody yet):

    Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;
    I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
    The evil that men do lives after them;
    The good is oft interred with their bones;
    So let it be with Caesar. The noble Brutus
    Hath told you Caesar was ambitious:
    If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
    And grievously hath Caesar answer’d it.
    Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest–
    For Brutus is an honourable man;
    So are they all, all honourable men–
    Come I to speak in Caesar’s funeral.
    He was my friend, faithful and just to me:
    But Brutus says he was ambitious;
    And Brutus is an honourable man.
    He hath brought many captives home to Rome
    Whose ransoms did the general coffers fill:
    Did this in Caesar seem ambitious?
    When that the poor have cried, Caesar hath wept:
    Ambition should be made of sterner stuff:
    Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
    And Brutus is an honourable man.
    You all did see that on the Lupercal
    I thrice presented him a kingly crown,
    Which he did thrice refuse: was this ambition?
    Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
    And, sure, he is an honourable man.
    I speak not to disprove what Brutus spoke,
    But here I am to speak what I do know.
    You all did love him once, not without cause:
    What cause withholds you then, to mourn for him?
    O judgment! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
    And men have lost their reason. Bear with me;
    My heart is in the coffin there with Caesar,
    And I must pause till it come back to me.

  148. Thomas L. Knapp

    My assumption that since Invictus starts his name with “Augustus,” he’s playing a Caesar figure. But I could be wrong. I just needed a good line, and that seemed like one 🙂

  149. Chuck Moulton

    Tom Knapp wrote:

    My assumption that since Invictus starts his name with “Augustus,” he’s playing a Caesar figure. But I could be wrong. I just needed a good line, and that seemed like one 🙂

    Yes, I understood the reason for your casting him as Caesar. I just found it ironic that you referenced a speech which convinced a mob that the person who attacked Caesar was the villain and should be killed.

  150. Matt Cholko

    As has been mentioned before, the Invictus problem, to the extent that there is one, seems to be largely caused by Libertarians making noise about him. He’s getting press because the LPF and their former Chairman are asking the press to cover the story.

    Publicly, he should just be ignored, if he is in fact crazy. Privately, discourage him from running and/or find someone to challenge him and lobby Ls to get out and vote for the challenger in the primary.

    I was feeling a bit sorry for the LPF. But, since they’ve decided to make the problem much bigger than it otherwise would have been, they’ve lost my sympathy.

  151. Thane "Goldie" Eichenauer

    Thomas,
    All the focus on the goat sacrifice and goat blood drinking by all and sundry concern me because as I understand it the membership of the Catholic church (20.8% of the US according to the Pew Religious Landscape survey) regularly engages in a religious ceremony where they eat a wafer symbolizing the body of Jesus the Christ and drink wine symbolizing the blood of Christ. To me that strikes me as symbolic cannibalism. I don’t understand how one ceremony engaged in by Augustus Sol Invictus manages to be such a compelling item. Maybe I am just more tolerant of other people’s religious practices (e.g. if it doesn’t pick my pocket or break my like can I like.. not care?). I was raised in a family with two parents that were card certified members of the Bahá’í Faith which perhaps vaccinated me from being fascinated by activities that some people call religious and others call preparation for a goat shawarma. Maybe it was reading Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. Heinlein as a young man.

  152. Thomas L. Knapp

    Thane,

    People find strange things scary. Even Libertarians. I was just answering you in terms of explaining why I don’t think it’s an animal rights thing for most of the people who are fascinated with or repelled by it.

    I do think it’s important to keep in mind that Invictus’s public persona is chock full of overtones that could be construed as messianic. That boosts the religious strangeness factor.

    Yeah, I regularly engage in the symbolic cannibalism you mention. Most Christians I know react badly to that description of it, but I don’t see why.

  153. Chuck Moulton

    Thane “Goldie” Eichenauer wrote:

    All the focus on the goat sacrifice and goat blood drinking by all and sundry concern me because as I understand it the membership of the Catholic church (20.8% of the US according to the Pew Religious Landscape survey) regularly engages in a religious ceremony where they eat a wafer symbolizing the body of Jesus the Christ and drink wine symbolizing the blood of Christ. To me that strikes me as symbolic cannibalism. I don’t understand how one ceremony engaged in by Augustus Sol Invictus manages to be such a compelling item.

    I completely agree.

    The goat thing struck me as crazy, but I think all religions are crazy (I’m an atheist; I explicitly ask people with a big imaginary friend in the sky not to contact me on my dating profile even though that rules out almost everyone).

    I never held the goat thing against Augustus from a religious perspective. I am, however, concerned when he makes an issue out of some kooky practices (including his religion) by talking at length about them in his essays and asking people to join him. The problem isn’t so much the kooky practices themselves as that making an issue of them detracts from a candidate’s core libertarian message and turns off voters who could have been supporters.

    Similarly, I don’t care if Augustus visits strippers with his wife. I do care if he talks extensively about visiting strippers with his wife and invites voters to do the same — I care about that because it detracts from the libertarian campaign message (assuming there is a libertarian campaign message, which may be a heroic assumption in this case) and may marginalize him or alienate potential supporters (again, I’m generalizing to all campaigns here… there is much more wrong with his campaign than just the strippers invitation).

  154. Thane "Goldie" Eichenauer

    Jill Pyeatt,
    Earlier today Mr. Invictus via his campaign FB page stated
    “Please consider this official notice that from this point forward I will be summarily ignoring the interrogatories and criticisms of my detractors inside the LPF so as to focus on more constructive aspects of my campaign.” – url below
    I personally found few if any of the questions posted on the IPR page “Thread for Questions to Augustus Invictus, Senatorial Candidate Hopeful for the Libertarian Party of Florida” to be substantive questions relevant to his current positions.
    He has issued a response to past criticisms. My judgement is that many if not all questions referred to in the above thread are rehashes of the same.
    https://www.facebook.com/InvictusForSenate/posts/518390394985457

    I speak only for myself. I have no special knowledge or association with Augustus Sol Invictus other than we both claim to be Libertarians.

  155. Jill Pyeatt

    I’m about as much of a city-girl as anyone can be. In addition, I’m quite an “animal person”, meaning I adore all animals and often prefer to spend time with them instead of humans (particularly dogs). Even being married to a Texan, I don’t get the hunting thing. I don’t even step on spiders to kill them; I catch them and take them outside.

    However, the goat thing isn’t what bothers me most. It’s the “I was born for a great war” stuff that bugs me. Plus, he questioned the ability of women voting at one point. Who does that in 2015??? Also, at this point he’s got to see that the publicity is harming the party. It seems to me that a reasonable person who had the best interests of the party at heart would drop out of the race.

    I can’t even think about the dismemberment of the goat and drinking its blood. Just like the videos of cops shooting family pets–it’s too much for me to watch them. I try not to even think about that stuff.

  156. NewFederalist

    Well, well, well… I cannot believe this guy gets all this space here at IPR. He clearly isn’t worth it. Why does anyone really care? Suffice it to say he won’t help the Libertarian Party but the more publicity (attention) he gets the better he likes it. Forget about him. If no reasonable person steps forward to challenge him in the primary then so be it. It is not exactly like the LP nominee is going to win the seat anyway.

  157. Andy

    “Darryl W. Perry

    October 5, 2015 at 6:32 pm

    I’m much more concerned with his support for eugenics and other policies that are not inline with libertarian ideology than his religious practices.”

    Me too, however, I generally do not like it when any candidate wears their religion on their sleeve, and it is worse if a candidate is a part of a religion that is way outside of what is considered to be “mainstream” in American culture, and if said candidate drones on about their way outside of the mainstream religion during their campaign.

    I remember several years back the Libertarian Party of California ran a candidate that was a Druid, and I recall that he had pictures of himself in his Druid robes out in the woods on his website, and he made it a talking point in his campaign that he was a Druid.

    I’d prefer it if candidates stuck to political issues and kept their religious views to themselves, at least while on the campaign trail. If they want to mention that they are a member of __________ (fill in the blank religion), that’s fine, but I see no reason to go into any details about it beyond that.

  158. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Andy

    Agreed and agreed. I don’t care about his religion… and because of that, I really don’t want to hear about it either as a key part of a political campaign.

  159. paulie

    I’m much more concerned with his support for eugenics and other policies that are not inline with libertarian ideology than his religious practices.

    Duh! I don’t understand why there is anyone here who does not get that.

  160. paulie

    I personally found few if any of the questions posted on the IPR page “Thread for Questions to Augustus Invictus, Senatorial Candidate Hopeful for the Libertarian Party of Florida” to be substantive questions relevant to his current positions.

    You should read them again then. Many of them are exactly about his current positions.

    He has issued a response to past criticisms. My judgement is that many if not all questions referred to in the above thread are rehashes of the same.

    Please show me where he answered the questions I asked in that thread.

    “Please consider this official notice that from this point forward I will be summarily ignoring the interrogatories and criticisms of my detractors inside the LPF so as to focus on more constructive aspects of my campaign.”

    How’s that different from what he has already been doing?

  161. paulie

    I speak only for myself. I have no special knowledge or association with Augustus Sol Invictus other than we both claim to be Libertarians.

    Presumably only one of you claims to be a fascist.

  162. paulie

    Thanks. I will need more time to read your full answer but I’ll address one quick point in your reply on that thread now.

  163. Steve LaBianca

    Two idiots. Good riddance. Unfortunately, over the long haul, two different idiots will likely take their places in the “Un-Libertarian Party of Florida”.

  164. Pingback: My Interview with Augustus Sol Invictus | The Saturnalian

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