Richard P. Burke: Oregon Mediation Proposal

imagesThis letter was copied to IPR by Richard P. Burke and directed to various parties within the dispute surrounding the Libertarian Party in Oregon with carbon copies sent to the LNC.

Dear All,

After reading the responses to Ian Epstein’s conciliatory letter of Oct. 8, 2015 some of us thought it might be best if I made a personal attempt at reaching out to you because of my long history with the party. While I cannot claim to speak for everyone on our side of the issues which divide us, I am confident that I speak for most.

As we sit on the leading edge of a new election cycle, it would seem a good time to attempt a closure of the rift which still exists between Oregon Libertarians. In that light, I will share that we stand ready to work with you on many of the issues which set us apart. We are confident that it is possible to successfully address many of your concerns. Two examples:

1. LPO Dues. We know that this is a major issue for your supporters. We stand ready to discuss alternatives to requiring the payment of dues to establish and maintain LPO memberships.

2. Mail Ballots. This is another major issue. Among LPO members, there does not appear to be any strong opposition to using mail ballots for candidate nominations. There is common ground to be found here.

The point is that we are ready to work with you in good faith on substantive issues that have divided us concerning the governance and future of the LPO.

It is worth noting that the “Compromise LPO Bylaws” which our side adopted in 2013 addressed some of the other issues your supporters have raised. They include: 1) Explicitly acknowledging registered Libertarian voters as members of the LPO, 2) Removing ambiguity concerning who the county representatives are and how they get elected, 3) Ending controversies over where annual business conventions will be sited, 4) Making it difficult for any faction to “ram through” surprise bylaw changes which might not be supported by the general membership, while making it possible to pass changes quickly when consensus can be achieved. There are many such improvements, including a workable quorum clause.

Obviously there are still significant areas of disagreement. There is also a backlog of hard feelings and frictions among individuals. But we don’t think these are insurmountable if both sides are willing to make a serious effort to resolve this split.

It has been suggested to me that representatives of both sides meet together with the assistance of a neutral and objective mediator. This would be a person (or persons) who is acceptable to you, and who you would have good reason to believe would be fair and unbiased. Several individuals who meet those criteria have been mentioned as possibilities, although no one has talked to them and I do not know at this point if they’d be willing to involve themselves.

The goal of such a meeting or series of meetings would be to identify areas of agreement, areas of disagreement, areas of potential compromise, and to brainstorm possibilities for resolving the hard issues in a way that both sides could live with.

We are willing to meet and negotiate without preconditions, knowing it won’t be easy to find a solution, but also believing that doing so is preferable to the present impasse. We hope you will at least agree on that.

Thank you.
Respectfully,
Richard P. Burke

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About Caryn Ann Harlos

Caryn Ann Harlos is a paralegal residing in Castle Rock, Colorado and presently serving as the Communications Director for the Libertarian Party of Colorado, Colorado State Coordinator for the Libertarian Party Radical Caucus, as well as Region 1 Representative on the Libertarian National Committee. Articles posted should NOT be considered the opinions of the LPCO, LPRC, or LNC nor always those of Caryn Ann Harlos personally. Caryn Ann's goal is to provide information on items of interest and (sometimes) controversy about the Libertarian Party and minor parties in general not to necessarily endorse the contents.

72 thoughts on “Richard P. Burke: Oregon Mediation Proposal

  1. Andy Craig

    Oh my, we might actually be at risk of common sense breaking out in Oregon. I was hoping we could drag this out to the end of the decade, at least.

    Does anybody have the Epstein 10/8 letter that was referenced? Just curious how “conciliatory” it was and if the mediation has any prospect of really happening, or if is only a one-way offer from Burke et al.

    If a mediation does finally happen, as it obviously should have from the beginning, then I hope one of the agreed terms is that LPO will send delegates to Orlando and place the nominee on the Oregon ballot. The rest of the internal details are for Oregonians to hash out, but it’d be nice to not have that hanging over our ballot access prospects for the 2016 ticket.

  2. George Phillies

    The assertion that there is currently an impasse does not appear to correspond to reality. there was litigation. One side won. That’s it. There is no impasse. The other side has appealed, but the victory is in place until there is a successful appeal, whether to any level of Oregon or Federal Courts..that’s perhaps five levels of appeal there.

  3. Andy Craig

    Litigation might solve the legal question, but mediation has the potential to solve the broader dispute and actually end it. Presumably, if there is a mediation and whatever changes agreed upon are made, then the unrecognized LPO would disband and all sides would join as members of the state-recognized LPO.

    It would also moot the question of what effect, if any, Carling’s JudCom pseudo-ruling has on who the LNC must recognize.

    Even if they’ve already lost in court, if their requests are reasonable and acceptable, then there’s no reason not to take them up on the offer and finally put to bed the problem of having multiple claimants to being the “real” Libertarian Party of Oregon.

  4. Wes Wagner

    These people are part of a group that has actively sabotaged libertarian campaigns, alloed woth the GOP, is regularly lauded by GOP as “easier to work with” (aka good vassals) and committed countless acts of fraud in their legal filings, destroyed evidence and are simply immoral enemies of the cause.

    There will never be reconciliation .. they are wolves.

  5. steve m

    If you are going to settle a long dispute perhaps it would be better to start with private conversations rather then public negotiations.

  6. Wes Wagner

    Steve M is correct.. this is just another in a long line of insincere and fraudulant ploys by a person I am reasonably certain is a sociopath.

  7. Guy Rosinbaum

    We offered the Burke side a compromise. They can simply join the CURRENT LPO. No dues, no requirements other then being registered as a Libertarian.

    If they want, they can then run for party office. If there ideas are sound and good, I’m certain the 18000 members of the LEGAL party will vote for the ideas willingly. No need to bring any lawyers to the democratic process now in place.

    I suspect however, this will not be acceptable to the 8-15 members of the Burke faction. I wonder why?

  8. Andy Craig

    I am not generally sympathetic to the unrecognized LPO faction and its actions, but if all they’re asking for is a way to save face, then give it to them and then outvote them when you finally hold a LPO convention that makes quorum.

  9. Jill Pyeatt

    This letter seems disingenuous to me because any attempt to mediate would NOT include
    Burke, and they all know that. If they were sincere, a neutral party would have sent this letter.

    This actually appears to be written due to desperation and frustration. The long and carefully planned JC decision hasn’t provided the dreams of coronation to the other group, so now this silly letter comes out in case anyone is still sitting on the fence. Burke actually thinks this letter might make him look like the good guy.

    The letter also makes it seem like they’re the group in power, reaching out to the losers.

    No further comment from me is needed about that.

  10. Wes Wagner

    Andy

    The losers of a war of aggression that they started are generally not in a position to negotiate terms. The people who aided them are generally in a position where they have to pay significant diplomatic and literal reparations if they ever want normalcy.

    I understand that some people in the LP labor under the delusion that politics is about compromise and pretending you are nice when you in fact are not nice… but the real world does not operate that way and it is a very childish view of the world and just another part of why the LP always loses.

  11. Wes Wagner

    (the people who really need the help of a mediator is the LNC who could help them understand exactly why what they did was immoral, plain stupid, and that in order to reconcile they need to give up something, because the victims of their aggression did nothing wrong unless they take the position that they are a hierarchical paternalistic agency that owns its affiliates .. and if they take that view then there are irreconcilable differences which then also resolves the issue with finality)

  12. Andy Craig

    I don’t think anybody who has been involved in the LPO dispute, on either side, has any grounds to accuse Libertarians in the rest of the country of being “childish” and “part of why the LP always loses.”

    Maybe it’s an insincere ploy. Maybe what they’re asking for isn’t acceptable. But if what you really want is for LPO-PAC (or whatever you want to call it) to go away, don’t dismiss out of hand an offer to do precisely that. If, on the other hand, what you really want is to keep this grudge match going until the Second Coming, then proceed as normal.

  13. Steve Scheetz

    Richard Burke writes as if somehow reality has been changed, and his side of about 12 people, have not acted using force and fraud to sabotage the efforts of Libertarian candidates. Guy R has it right.

    While it’s true that most people would find it difficult to think less of him, i would put this letter on the same level as a bully, convicted of assault, (but on appeal) writing a similar letter and having it published publically, while making no effort to discuss the matter privately. It is meaningless, petty, and frankly I am not certain why it was even published other than to make people laugh.

    Sincerely,

    Steve Scheetz

  14. Wes Wagner

    Andy

    “I don’t think anybody who has been involved in the LPO dispute, on either side, has any grounds to accuse Libertarians in the rest of the country of being “childish” and “part of why the LP always loses.” ”

    I disagree. If you were on the ground here in Oregon you would probably understand why I disagree. This dispute was never between two equal factions with anywhere near equal claims. That is why the balance of power domestically is so lopsided — and the LNC chose to ally with the traitors. All the ethical people who are successful in life, have jobs, families, careers, productive human relationships outside of the LP are rallied around one banner .. all the people (which is not that many) of ill repute are rallied around the other (crazy people who are predestined to codependency and cult-like thinking and easily predated by narcisists).

    Why ? Why would the LNC ally with GOP-aligned traitors?

    There are fundamental reasons why that happened .. there are reasons why it will continue to happen… there are reasons why the LNC and national LP is so riddled with cancer that it cannot possibly heal itself.

    If you cannot engage in the wisdom and introspection necessary to understand it and are willing and capable of doing something about it, then you are part of the problem whether you are capable of realizing it or not and are wasting any and all your efforts.

    Anyone ignores this at their peril — as all your efforts will be destroyed, if not by the reformers but by the corrupt you enable.

  15. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Andy,

    ==I am not generally sympathetic to the unrecognized LPO faction and its actions, but if all they’re asking for is a way to save face, then give it to them and then outvote them when you finally hold a LPO convention that makes quorum.==

    Yep.

  16. Wes Wagner


    Caryn Ann Harlos
    November 2, 2015 at 1:10 pm

    Andy,

    ==I am not generally sympathetic to the unrecognized LPO faction and its actions, but if all they’re asking for is a way to save face, then give it to them and then outvote them when you finally hold a LPO convention that makes quorum.==

    Yep.”

    Not practical… they historically cheat and engage in fraud so you can’t accept their governance and stewardship and expect a fair outcome.

    We have also just recently successfully tested the legal theory that you can do that with no consequences.

    In short your suggestion is absolutely stupid and you get an F- in reality.

  17. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Wes,

    I see you are back to your charming former ways today. I love you too Wes.

    And I actually do miss you on FB, please do stop by my page more often.

  18. Andy Craig

    “you can’t accept their governance and stewardship and expect a fair outcome.”

    Which isn’t what I said you should do.

  19. Wes Wagner

    I have been busy with business and personal affairs so I have had less time to randomly browse.

    I also have zero tolerance for people who suggest that we should give sociopaths any way to save face and to hand them power under their construct of compromise after they fought a 5+ year war of aggression and lost and somehow irrationally think that any outcome from that could benefit good and moral people.

    If you can’t figure out why I would insult and intentionally distance myself from people like that with my “charm”, you deserve your fates in life. I ally with people and work with people who know how to fight against sociopaths and win — and discard the enablers.

  20. Wes Wagner

    Just so we are clear… they do not get to save face. The LNC does not get to save face. The national LP delegations in convention do not get to save face.

    Everyone must own their disgrace in order for their to be a path forward.

  21. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Wes,

    ==Just so we are clear… they do not get to save face. The LNC does not get to save face. The national LP delegations in convention do not get to save face.==

    Translation:

    Kill ’em all!

  22. Guy Rosinbaum

    Some of us are mad. Some more then others. This was a long fight, and there were casualties. A lot of us felt disenfranchised by the Burke faction. We were told pay up and accept the policies of the unelected or leave. We fought back. We won. Now after having our very God given rights trampled on by the national Burke faction, we are expected to be the “bigger” of the 2 factions. We are expected to compromise so that the 15 people that held my states party hostage for 5 years can save face? Why? Why do we ask good and true people to bend to the will of tyrants and thief’s of Liberty? Does it really help to give the mouse a cookie?
    I don’t speak of the current 18000 members of the Oregon Liberteran Party, only myself. And with my one voice I will now as I have always done in my life, stand up and say No, to the aggression that threatens the liberty and voice of the people of the State of Oregon.

    Now I understand that the national party does not see the 18000 members of the LPO as part of its organization. And as such, has not, and perhaps will not, seat the delegate our members have selected. That is certainly your clubs right. But don’t expect a lot of support from us. God knows we sure have not gotten any from you.

  23. Wes Wagner

    Guy,

    There are fewer than 15 of them… closer to no more than 6 at any given time.

    There were maybe 15 or so of them until about 2009. Most abandoned the field after the initial losses and some after realizing what they were a part of but too embarrassed to changed banners.

  24. Wes Wagner

    The only people Burke has left who are originals instead of recent conscripts are David Terry and Greg Burnett.

  25. JT

    Many Oregonians who love freedom, liberty, and the Constitution are leaving the childish bickering of the Libertarian factions and their cultural Marxist multiracialist agenda, and joining the growing and vibrant American Freedom Party of Oregon. Ron Paul and many of his key organizers are involved in the American Freedom Party. White folks who seek freedom and liberty for our people should leave the playground antics of the LP just as Ron Paul did and join up with the AFP. If you don’t already live in Oregon, Washington State, Idaho or Western Montana and are a pro-liberty White Patriot you should move here and join the fight!

  26. Mark Axinn

    George wrote:
    >Mediation is one of these things you do *before* you go to litigation.

    Actually, there are myriad instances of mediation after litigation is filed. The New York County Commercial Division (cases over $150,000 in Manhattan) rules specify that the Judge can order mediation at any time in the proceedings, including up to the day of trial. I have State Court cases referred to mediation early on, i.e. before discovery, as well as after all discovery, after summary judgment motions are determined and a Notice of Trial is filed.

    The timing issue here is not that the request to mediate came after litigation was filed, which is actually customary, but after it was decided, which is too little, too late.

  27. Michael H. Wilson

    If Burke and his crew were worth anything they would get organized and vote in their own people but Burke has never chosen to play that way. He prefers to use parliamentary games to achieve his goals.

  28. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Michael,

    ==If Burke and his crew were worth anything they would get organized and vote in their own people but Burke has never chosen to play that way.==

    That is an interesting point. If the goal is not our personal egos or pride or this need to prove a point at all costs… but is indeed Liberty… then keeping this battle up at all costs doesn’t make sense, particularly seeing the risk to disrupt the entire party, lose OR ballot access, and other considerations. Just go into the organization that is voluntary and recognized by OR and win the old-fashioned way. If the OR Libertarians support you (and it should be about THEM) then it should be easy.

  29. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Mediations are often filed post-suit. In civil cases (not talking appeals here), they are often a requirement in pre-trial Orders.

  30. Wes Wagner

    No ruling on appeal. There was mediation between summary judgment and prior to the appeal being filed.

    It was obviously not productive.

  31. Caryn Ann Harlos

    I do not do appellate work, but I do not see why mediation would not be just as appropriate. Mediation is a way to settle by avoiding the potential risks of something not going one’s way. I do not see how being in the appellate system would change that dynamic. I know of cases that mediation after Judgement to insure collectibility etc. IOW, you can always mediate.

    Despite the chest-pounding, I would like to see this mediated. As an outsider, my concern is the health of the collective national coalition here, it ain’t just about Oregon to me.

  32. Wes Wagner

    Caryn

    I can’t discuss what happened in mediation the first time, but it does not bode well for any further requests to mediate in good faith.

  33. Steve Scheetz

    Caryn, published in general. Like I said, it was an obvious ploy rooted in fraud. Burke attempts to show himself as an adult, as someone who is attempting to be reasonable, and as if he was speaking from a position of power as if to calm a petulant child.

    This latest facade reeks of the manure it is hiding. He is not being reasonable, because he is not speaking from a position of power, nor is he attempting to calm down a petulant child.

    Instead, this being done publicly is essentially calling out all Libertarians in Oregon, and suggesting that they are all petulant children for not flocking to his side in all of this.

    I am actually surprised that there has not been a collective “GO F#$% YOURSELF” (nicely worded) issued from the party membership as a whole.

    Who knows, that may be coming, but for right now, I will just say that I find it disturbing that he would even write it and send this to the membership in private, let alone calling the membership out in public.

    Sincerely,

    Steve Scheetz

  34. Guy Rosinbaum

    Caryn, I don’t know you at all. You seem like a nice person, and you seem to care about the party at large. Why do you keep ignoring the 18000 members and their elected leadership in Oregon on this matter? Why do you want us to meet, talk, mediate, walk on fire for 5-12 people? Who are these couple of people that they are so important to you and the national party, that if we can’t sit down with them it will cause national so much harm? I mean it certainly didn’t seem to worry the national party during the last national convention when national wouldn’t seat our delegates. We have even told national that’s if they wish to never seat us and just keep the Burke faction seated, no problem, we aren’t likely to show up this year anyway.

    What does national expect us to do? Pay the 5-12 back dues? Disband? Remove our elected leaders? Just where is this middle, to which everyone speaks, the non aggression pact? Sure, you want to sign it go ahead, likewise, if you don’t that’s fine as well. It’s not a requirement to be a member of the state party. The only requirements we have, is that you are registered as a libertarian and live in the state of Oregon. If the Burke faction meet these requirements, they are in the party now….poof.

    What more do you or national want from us? Seriously we have work to do in our state and we really don’t have any more time to soothe Burke or anyone else’s buthurt.

  35. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Guy,

    I have said numerous times this is about the Oregon Libertarians and Liberty and not about the personalities or the leaders.

    You apparently have not read my myriad posts on this since my position is that the LNC has no power here, it is ultimately an Oregon matter. Now it does affect everyone else, and in that spirit, I am concerned. But there is no authority outside of Oregon to handle it.

    I always favour attempts at mediation in any dispute. There is some projection and “amost accusatons” there that I don’t care for and will not spend time on such. My posts on this issue over my time here speak for themselves. Kinda like when I get called a conservative and a “libtard” on the same day.

    I find it really funny I get it from both ends. In my book, that usually means I am doing something right.

    And yes, my concern is the Party at large. I care deeply about the Party at large. And that is the only area I really can have any interest since I am not an Oregonian. But I am a National Party member.

  36. Guy Rosinbaum

    Caryn, I’ll be the first to admit Im an ass. And there are at least 10 others in our state party that would rush to defend the fact, that indeed I am an ass. I imagine there are many more worldwide. However my questions are sincere, and yet still unanswered.

    What exactly is it that we as the LPO are expected to do or to compromise on?

  37. Wes Wagner

    I will vouch.. Guy is an ass.

    I am curious about why we should compromise and what is in it for the average registered libertarian?

    How do they benefit from it?

  38. Guy Rosinbaum

    Oh and don’t forget the last question.

    How is it exactly, that by not meeting with these people we are harming the national party?

  39. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    They benefit from potential peace. There may not be anything possible. But always take the opportunity to try.

    I am not going to entrench myself further in Oregon business. But I always encourage people to try to work it out.

    The LNC is likely on the verge of making another disastrous decision. I would love for them to turn around to meddle in the problem only to find that libertarians worked it out themselves.

    **the word “them” is admittedly collective…there are people on the LNC who feel as I do

    If you can’t see how this is harming the National Party, I don’t have the ambition or time to lay it out at this point. I am knee deep in trying to get a County affiliate started here and don’t have the time I used to. Perhaps another commenter will indulge.

  40. Wes Wagner

    I really can’t see how the national party was harmed in any way until they started to disenfranchise our national delegates.

    Any wounds appear self-inflicted.

  41. Guy Rosinbaum

    Yea that’s what I thought. No answers to any of my questions. Can’t waste the time explaining to a simple yokel from Oregon…I know we don’t matter, I’m sorry I’m to simple to grasp how being ignored by national has caused national such aggrivious damage. I’m sure had I done better in school I could figure it out. I’m just thankful that we are blessed by bloggers, journalist such as yourself that know the answers to all. I think it’s great you don’t want to meddle in our affairs in Oregon. I mean the last thing we need is someone dragging up the past and posting it in public. So thank you for not doing that.

  42. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Wes,

    Don’t confuse the part for the whole. You know that many do not support the LNC breaching the autonomy of an affiliate. I was not around at the time this all originally went down. Once I became aware, I spoke on it.

  43. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Speaking of the original 2011 decision. I have been very vocal against the JC games. You know that.

  44. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Guy,

    Those ten people in Oregon are right. Good day. You demonstrated your ignorance of what my absolute position has been. Biting at the wrong leg there fella.

  45. Wes Wagner

    What ten people?

    I am confused

    Burke has 4 or 5 and we have about 50-60 activists and 18000 members

  46. Wes Wagner

    Oh wait… the tem people who think he is an ass… seriously… it is more than ten 🙂

    It doesn’t mean he isn’t right… trust me… if you tell the truth at a party you will be the biggest ass there.

  47. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Wes,

    ==And there are at least 10 others in our state party that would rush to defend the fact, that indeed I am an ass. ==

    Those ten.:)

  48. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    In all fairness, more than ten would vouch for me as well. Just not on this issue.

  49. Guy Rosinbaum

    kudos, it takes most people at least a week before they are ready to agree that I’m an ass.

  50. Joe

    Wes offers a “Refiner’s Fire” path that it would serve, IMO, the LP/LNC Burke et al to experience.

    This lack of discernment about who is aligned with causing LIBERTY and who, out of either ignorance or intent (and who gives a damn about which) — is out to destroy her is a cancer for which Wes and those who demand/accept only integrity have a cure. Here’s a hint — one does not truly grow by “saving face.” It is not a loving thing, or a kindness to them to give that. It IS a loving thing to cause integrity in others, growth, knowledge of truth, etc. Wes is the most LOVING force/guy/thing you know. If you don’t see that, it’s the evil covering your eyes that needs removing. That may SEEM like losing face, and maybe it is, but it’s good for ya. A balm.

    I’d suggest those who feel confused follow that refiner’s fire path, unless you truly believe all this will “all be settled in Richard Burke/Aaron Starr’s favor before the deadline to put Gary Johnson on the ballot” — (in 2012).

    Really, people all over the LNC/GJ2012 campaign believed that. Acted on it. Were seduced by the promise and reckless overconfidence. Twas a silly time and I’m glad, although I lack (or choose not to exercise fully) the commitment, fortitude and power of Mr. Wagner, to have gotten to know both him and his principles because of this debacle.

    So, for reunification, the side that started the aggression must offer full and complete compensation for the costs they caused the other side to suffer before even opening a discussion about reunifying. And to do so without having given unconditionally that just re-payment is just causing more damage, confusion and pain (to the degree it’s allowed, which for Wes, if not everyone involved, is clearly . . . zero.

    Or so it seems to me.

  51. Thomas L. Knapp

    Caryn,

    You write:

    “I do not do appellate work, but I do not see why mediation would not be just as appropriate. Mediation is a way to settle by avoiding the potential risks of something not going one’s way. I do not see how being in the appellate system would change that dynamic.”

    Here’s why:

    Normally the side that has won has good reason to believe that it will also prevail on appeal. Courts tend to be very cautious about reversing subordinate courts, especially absent any kind of “new evidence” bombshell or whatever.

    So from the real LPO’s viewpoint, what does it have to gain from mediation? It’s already won. It reasonably expects to win on appeal, too. And it’s already acquiesced in mediation once. The impostor organization’s argument is “we keep trying to fuck you over and failing; please cooperate with us in our next attempt.”

  52. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Tom,

    ==Normally the side that has won has good reason to believe that it will also prevail on appeal. Courts tend to be very cautious about reversing subordinate courts, especially absent any kind of “new evidence” bombshell or whatever.==

    This somewhat removes my comment from the flow which wasn’t specific to this case but appeals in general. And Courts are not as reluctant to make it fool-proof. It is always a gamble. And mediation doesn’t presume an equal footing… if there is any chance of losing, the confident side may choose to concede a small bit to have a guarantee.

    My point was that simply there is no per se reason not to mediate after appeal in suits. Not this one in particular, but suits in general. The reasons for pre-suit and during-suit mediation would still apply. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush and all that.

  53. Steve Scheetz

    Caryn, with respect, there is every reason to let this regurgetated ploy go.

    1. It was tried before, and failed
    2. Trust. How do you trust people who continually try to destroy sabotage Libertarian candidates?

    More later…

    Sincerely,

    Steve Scheetz

  54. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Steve,

    As was already said, they can already just come into the LPO now and try anything they like. Neither side knows what the LNC will do (and you know I think they should do nothing)and that is a factor. I would hope there is some care and concern for the national members’ sake (though obviously there is no “obligation” to do that). Mediation can hammer out these uncertainties and put OR’s destiny firmly and only on OR hands. Yes that is the way it should be- but we know it isn’t- this could outmaneuver certain people in the LNC/JC. There are potential strategic advantages.

  55. Wes Wagner

    Why do we have to spend time trying to outmaneuver people who are supposedly our allies?

    Why should we be expected to?

    Why should we be civil to traitors?

    Who gains from it?

    The LNC can’t really do anything except harm themselves. To that I say, good – they deserve it.

  56. mvetanen

    The LNC can only choose by a full vote of the LNC board who they recognize as the State affiliate. This however has no effect to grant whatever group they wish the Oregon Ballot access. The ballot access, despite what the LNC may want, will remains with the registered LPO as a State Party with the existing LPO group as currently chaired by Lars Hedbor. The Oregon Secretary of States office has already stated in official letters that they will only act upon a court order, and so far nobody has brought up any litigation to direct the Oregon Secretary of State to do such.

    The law suit that Mr. Burke engaged in, despite how he now interprets it, is to return the party to the 2009 bylaws and replace the existing officers with his cronies and cohorts. There is no language in the current legal suit or appeals to direct the Oregon Secretary of State to do anything. This legal suit was dismissed by the judge on First Amendment issues, and that the court does not wish to hear the issue too.

    Mr. Burke had his chance at negotiations prior to the appeals. I won’t speak to what happened but needless to say it was a short negotiation session.

    As far as I can see, the LPO does not need anything that Mr. Burke or his gang has. From what I can understand, the LPO is growing and thriving far better with record numbers of candidates running for office than ever before. I understand that the socials are well attended and that participation with new members getting involved is at record highs as well.

    In my opinion, Mr. Burke and his gang are only trying to hinder the LPO and its advancements. Is his negotiations then that of a terrorist, where he will stop hindering the LPO if we politically bend to his will? IF the LPO bends to him, then who else will we have to bend over for too?

    It is more likely that the LPO will just continue to suffer though whatever mischief Mr. Burke throws at us, and continue to grow and thrive. Perhaps Mr. Burke will one day get tired of us and go bother someone else…we hope this happens sooner than later.

    As for the LNC goes, I am content to watch it implode from the sidelines as they shit all over their coveted bylaws and devolve to political despot. Eventually they will go bankrupt and collapse in to an angry smoldering heap of shit. At that time, myself and many others will simply build a new national party where the shits of the old LNC can join Mr. Burke in political obscurity and isolation.

  57. Steve Scheetz

    At this point, the only people who gain from mediation, are the people who have been throwing their tantrum for a number of years.

    Their lawsuits have failed, so far, the only reason why they have had the Judicial Committee ruling, is because the chairman of that committee is a member of their group, and he was a person with a vested interest, in the outcome of such a decision, AND YET, that decision was meaningless. Anything the LNC does would (hypothetically speaking) be meaningless. As it is, the LNC screwed over the LPO recognized by the state of Oregon, and by National, just this last convention when it was voted on, by the convention floor, to seat the Burke Group with the legitimate group, and the Legitimate group was voted out of the delegation, or close enough.

    No, it is not helpful, EVER, to give in to a child throwing a tantrum, and that is EXACTLY what these past 5 years have been. An adult would have let it go after the first lawsuit failed, joined the party and did something positive as opposed to undermining every effort put forth.

    Sincerely,

    Steve Scheetz

  58. Wang Tang-Fu

    I agree. The adults in the situation are the ones who send nuclear fireball middle fingers. Well, then again, maybe no one having anything to do with it is acting like an adult, including those of us rubbernecking from the sidelines.

  59. Fred

    This just in:

    The British monarchy is willing to accept mediation with the United States.
    They are willing to compromise on key principles of taxation without representation, allowing Americans to vote, and are even willing to consider revoking Prima Nocta…..
    ….when we recognize that they are the rightful rulers of America.

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