Libertarian Party of Colorado Event: Presidential Candidate Steve Kerbel Answers Question on the NAP at LPCO Volunteer Meeting 12/17/15

Libertarian Party Presidential candidate Steve Kerbel answers attendee question about the Non-Aggression Principle and our Party’s Statement of Principles at an informal Volunteer Meet-Up gathering in Parker, Colorado on December 17, 2015. “If we call ourselves the Party of Principle, why would we abandon our principles?”

This video originally appeared on The NAP Pledge Facebook page here.

This entry was posted in Libertarian Party and tagged , , on by .

About Caryn Ann Harlos

Caryn Ann Harlos is a paralegal residing in Castle Rock, Colorado and presently serving as the Communications Director for the Libertarian Party of Colorado, Colorado State Coordinator for the Libertarian Party Radical Caucus, as well as Region 1 Representative on the Libertarian National Committee. Articles posted should NOT be considered the opinions of the LPCO, LPRC, or LNC nor always those of Caryn Ann Harlos personally. Caryn Ann's goal is to provide information on items of interest and (sometimes) controversy about the Libertarian Party and minor parties in general not to necessarily endorse the contents.

22 thoughts on “Libertarian Party of Colorado Event: Presidential Candidate Steve Kerbel Answers Question on the NAP at LPCO Volunteer Meeting 12/17/15

  1. Caryn Ann Harlos Post author

    Andy, I generally know the answer to this, but I do not want to be inaccurate. From what I understand his Party membership is fairly new, but there was some backstory to that, that I may not recall properly. I asked a member of his campaign to come answer if they could.

  2. Steve Scheetz

    Steve and I are in agreement with regard to the NAP. If the Libertarian Party wants to lose the NAP as a fundamental aspect of its platform and SOP, I would suggest that it should also toss the slogan “Party of Principle” right into the same garbage can.

    We are the “Party of Principle” (unless some people are uncomfortable agreeing to living their lives guided by a specific set of principles, or viewing politics through the lens of those specific Principles, which were agreed upon from the beginning.) THEN, we will look into abandoning our principles in order to make room for others who have different principles.

    I have read articles condemning the absolute nature of the NAP, but these articles fail to see the world we live in. I oppose all taxes. This does not mean I will not pay them. I pay them because I like my home, and I do not wish to be tossed into prison like Larken Rose. Pollution. Pollution is a fact of life, just ask anyone who has ever eaten sauerkraut! We can limit our pollution, we can offer to clean up pollution, but at the end of the day, we work toward a future where there are fewer instances where pollution is a problem, Right now, I am thinking of corporate pollution where people’s drinking water has been contaminated and is now toxic due to actions taken by a corporate entity. OR people with allergies who become sick due to the fluoride dumped in their water supply by the municipalities. We can fix these problems. There are many innovative solutions currently available, and by enabling competition, as opposed to enabling monopolies, we will all benefit from better service at a lower cost. The NAP will get us there. having no standards will get us exactly where we are.

    Sincerely,

    Steve Scheetz

  3. langa

    The more I learn about Kerbel, the more I like him. He’s not my “perfect” candidate, but compared to the rest of the likely field, he’s looking awfully good.

  4. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Anyone following my personal FB page knows that I am terribly hard on candidates in general. It takes a lot to win me over. I started out not a supporter, but he won me over.

    I am part of a distinct “faction” as it were of the LP. Steve and I are not “eye to eye” on everything ideological. But he sits across from me, and hears me, and treats me, and those that disagree with me with respect and dignity.

  5. langa

    Steve and I are not “eye to eye” on everything ideological.

    Same here. But, as I said on another thread a while ago, he and Perry are the only two likely candidates who seem to “get it” — by which I mean that they understand that the point of an LP campaign is to grow the movement/party. All the other candidates seem to be on an ego trip. They are interested in promoting their own agenda. If it happens to mesh with the agenda of the movement/party, great. If not, then the hell with the movement/party.

    If someone wants to design their campaign as a cult of personality, that’s fine — but they should run as an Independent, or start their own party.

    The LP already has a message, and potential candidates need to understand that.

  6. langa

    This “Fact Finder” appears to be some sort of anti-Kerbel troll. He has posted this exact link, with little attempt to demonstrate its relevance, on 7 different threads within the last hour.

    I thought IPR’s “vaunted” spam filter was supposed to catch stuff like this…

  7. steve m

    Jill,

    Thanks… add me to the list of not being satisfied. Looks like Mr Kerbel settled a lawsuit and agreed to pay over $800,000 in restitution and hasn’t done so. The State of Colorado is after him again in court with a court Date of April 1st.

    “The suit alleges the investors bought $1.1 million in promissory notes, which carried annual interest rates ranging from 8 percent to 12 percent, from 2009 to 2012 that have since matured and are in default.

    The notes are considered securities under Colorado law and should have been registered with the division, but weren’t in violation of state law, according to the suit. Kerbel and Rio National also allegedly used an unlicensed sales representative to sell the unsecured notes, which were unsuitable investments for the retirees who bought them, the suit said.

    The suit seeks a permanent injunction against Kerbel, Rio National and all officers, directors, employees and agents against further violations of Colorado securities law and a judgment against the defendants for restitution, damages, interest, costs and attorney’s fees.”

  8. The Fact Finder

    “This “Fact Finder” appears to be some sort of anti-Kerbel troll. He has posted this exact link, with little attempt to demonstrate its relevance, on 7 different threads within the last hour.”

    Ianga,

    First off, how do you know i’m a “he”? If you like Kerbel that’s you business. But how would you like to be one of those people who invested thousands of dollars of their hard earned money in his Ponzi scheme based on lies and misrepresentations? After all, he portrayed that the company was profitable to these investors when in fact it was far from it. I’m just the messenger here and therefore consider your “troll” labeling a compliment given that you seem to want to defend Kerbel and his actions. The multiple postings are meant to make sure that those interested in the Libertarian efforts aren’t bamboozled like his victims, which are many. I read his explanation and it is a vain attempt at damage control against undisputed evidence. As for relevance, if that isn’t obvious then you deserve to have him as your President. Like the saying goes, where there’s smoke, there’s fire with this guy and you’d be wise to take a long hard look before he can do similar damage by making a mockery of being a Libertarian Presidential Candidate. For the rest of you, don’t drink the Kool-Aid like his victims. It will give you an upset stomach.

    Oh, and don’t overlook this link below where he burned business partners in addition to the general public. But maybe all this doesn’t matter to because Kerbel is the messiah he wants you to believe.

    Good luck.

    http://insurance.mo.gov/Contribute%20Documents/SKerbelREV.pdf

  9. The Fact Finder

    Correction: This is the link I meant to post in my previous post about Kerbel burning business partners in addition to the general public. It even discloses that he tanked an entire insurance company by the name of Pride National Insurance Company because of his antics. That’s no small feat and along with his other shenanigans, it validates that he has no conscience for those who have supported him. Is that relevant enough for you?

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/295937699/National-Unity-v-Kerbel#scribd

  10. Jill Pyeatt

    Fact Finder: What is the status of the court proceedings in the post you just made?

    I know the SEC charges filed early February of this year are still open, but what about the one above?

  11. Robert Capozzi

    “If we call ourselves the Party of Principle, why would we abandon our principles?”

    Is this a rhetorical question?

    -If the principles don’t work.
    -If the principles are based on flawed assumptions.
    -Define “abandon.” Perhaps the principles need to be re-assessed and evolved, based on experience and new information.

    For starters, at least.

  12. The Fact Finder

    Jill,

    It might be fun to begin with a few quotes from candidate Kerbel in his letter to Libertarians posted on the website:

    The denials:

    “Libertarians do not want to be affiliated with people who purposefully take advantage of others via force or fraud”

    “I can assure you that none of my organizations ever in any situation committed purposeful acts of theft or fraud”.

    The I’m the heroic victim statements:

    “Over the years I have read hundreds, if not thousands, of legal complaints and to be honest, it’s pretty hard to read one without chuckling at the allegations and dramatic verbiage used for the purpose of a cash grab”

    “Facts are not always important in the influence of their arguments because they try to feed off the creation of outrage in the finders of fact and the more they can make statements (true or not) that paint their victim as a horrible human being, the better chance they can extract more cash for them and their clients”

    “Years and years of witnessing abuses of authority from government is what spurred my outrage. Civil suits that attempt to take financial advantage of this abuse are a byproduct of this situation”

    “If I was wrong, I pay what is fair. If I was right, I fight. Where this strategy gets sidetracked is in the fight against government. Once one is on their radar, one cannot win, so the pragmatic way to handle these issues is to fall on the sword and end them so you can move on with your life”

    “My mission is to take back the country from the government and give it back to the people. Those who want government growth and control to increase will bring up false accusations over and over again. To me, I take these as learning experiences and remain mindful of the reality of life and business in the USA in 2016”

    Conclusions made on lawsuit with his business partner, National Unity:

    I wish I had access to the court documents but I don’t. So here’s what I’ve pieced together based on items found on the internet. National Unity Insurance Company realized that it was futile to try and collect damages from Kerbel because he has no money thus rendering a judgement against him worthless after an expensive trial. Kerbel having no money seems to be the norm, or perhaps willful concealment, as evidenced by the zero payments made to the victims of his investment scam even after being ordered by Colorado to do so. As a result, National Unity was understandably more concerned about obtaining the client files, that the complaint indicates Kerbel refused to share, and getting access to the software system so they could manage the potential damage from the insurance customers Kerbel had processed on behalf of National Unity. Those insurance customers could bring bad faith claims against National Unity if any of those customers were harmed because National Unity didn’t respond to the insurance coverage terms in a timely matter. A few bad faith claims against an insurance company can wreak havoc. Enough of those claims can be the ticking time bomb that can bring down an insurance company like the complaint accused Kerbel of doing to an insurance company named Pride National Insurance Company. As opposed to prosecuting a penniless Kerbel, it seems that National Unity rightfully felt that it was more urgent to get their hands on the customer files. So it seems Kerbel agreed to give them the files and access to the system for 180 days in exchange for a dismissal without prejudice around 11/15. A dismissal without prejudice means National Unity can go after Kerbel again if he doesn’t hold up his end of the bargain. In summary, it appears that the big fish in this case was avoiding serious damage orchestrated by Kerbel’s actions and mismanagement as opposed to going after Kerbel personally and getting nothing.

    If this scenario isn’t an accurate interpretation in its entirety, you can bet it’s close. Regardless, even if you choose ignore this, it is undeniable Kerbel lied to elderly investors who lost money as a result and two of which have died without seeing a nickel.

    In closing it seems appropriate to repeat the words of Mr. Kerbel: “Libertarians do not want to be affiliated with people who purposefully take advantage of others via force or fraud”

    Good luck

  13. langa

    First off, how do you know i’m a “he”?

    What does it matter? I was using a generic pronoun. Would you prefer to be called an “it”?

    I’m just the messenger here and therefore consider your “troll” labeling a compliment given that you seem to want to defend Kerbel and his actions.

    Where have I “defended” jack shit? I have simply said that it would be wise to hear what Kerbel has to say, rather than engage in some rush to judgment, based on the word of an obvious troll (that’s you, if you can’t tell) who clearly has an axe to grind. Did you find Kerbel in bed with your wife, your husband, your mom, your dad, your son, or your daughter? (Does that satisfy your desire for gender inclusivity?)

  14. The Fact Finder

    Hey langa, is that name Scandinavian? Just curious.

    “What does it matter?”…Wow, you sound like a frustrated Hillary during the Benghazi hearings. And actually I prefer to be called “troll” because that juvenile label reveals your inner childish reaction for not liking what I have to say about Presidential Candidate Kerbel. By the way, why is it that you don’t like what I have to say about Kerbel? After all, it’s not based on the word of this troll nor is it a “rush to judgement”. It’s based on things so serious that the trolls of Colorado are going after him. And what about his misdeeds towards his business partners? Hey, with a business partner like Kerbel, who needs enemies, right? And you think all of this isn’t relevant? Why the patience and forgiveness towards someone with 800,000+ skeletons in his closet, and that’s only the investor skeletons? Are you so close to him that you can’t see the forest for the trees? Or are you so close that you kiss each other good night at bedtime? I guess one person’s Svengali can be another person’s con artist. And such profanity! It may be fitting if you’re describing Kerbel. But it isn’t very fitting if you want to be taken seriously. And don’t be so silly. I didn’t catch Kerbel in bed with a family member. But I see why you might think that since he has a habit of screwing people.

    As for your concern about hearing, “what Kerbel has to say” rather from someone “who clearly has an ax to grind”, you seem to ignore, like most things, that I had previously mentioned the only ax grinding done here is on behalf of his victims and to help prevent others from the same fate. Of course the questionable Kerbel has a snowballs chance at being President. But it’s obvious to many, excluding you, that this upstanding citizen doesn’t do anything unless there is something in it for himself. As for hearing what Kerbel has to say, where have you been? Didn’t you see his rambling explanation in the Letter to Libertarians on this website about him being the victim of the system and some “cash grab” baloney while heroically “falling on the sword” nonsense? If you missed it, you’re in for a real treat. But that’s okay if you think I’ve been unfair in pointing out Mr. Kerbel warts. That’s politics. If you think he deserves a break that’s certainly up to you. In fact, if you feel he has been treated unfairly, I encourage you to go to his website and make a donation. Just be sure to do it before the first of the month because that is when his rent is due.

    To all you other level headed people out there, good luck.

  15. langa

    Whether intentionally or not, you completely miss the point of why I am calling you a troll. It has nothing to do with whether the allegations against Kerbel are true. It has nothing to do with whether Kerbel would be a good choice for the LP nomination. In fact, it really has nothing directly to do with Kerbel at all. It has to do with you, and why you suddenly appeared here on IPR, absolutely hellbent on convincing everyone that Kerbel is the devil incarnate. Why is that?

    Let me guess. You will say that you are just concerned about the LP, and want us to nominate the best candidate for president. In that case, why is this the first we’ve heard from you, and why have you had nothing to say about any of the other candidates? After all, we’ve spent the last couple of years here on IPR discussing the pros and cons of potential LP POTUS candidates, and you were nowhere to be found. Now, suddenly, you show up, posting negative allegations about Kerbel on virtually every thread where his name appears, while not having a single word to say about any of the other candidates. Anyone with a minimum of one good eye and half a brain should be able to see that you clearly have some sort of personal beef with Kerbel, and you are using IPR as a forum to “get back at him” for whatever he may have done to you. In other words, you are hijacking the discussion here, in an effort to further your personal vendetta against Kerbel. That makes you a perfect example of a troll.

  16. The Fact Finder

    Funny that you’re trying to make it about me when it is in fact about Kerbel. What is your agenda in protecting and defending him when I suspect most with a minimum of one good eye and half a brain can see he’s a con-artist creep? But perhaps a con-artist creep is an attribute you find attractive in a Presidential Candidate. At least I’m glad to see you’ve calmed down about your use of profanity. And I really don’t care about your “troll” name calling in an attempt to redirect the subject onto me. Now you’re resorting to random shots in the dark about why I’m here in an apparent attempt to take the focus off of Kerbel. Why is that? Regardless, I have not been here before because I had no reason to be here before. I’m not here now about the LP nor am I here about trying to sway anybody towards any particular candidate. And you’re right, I have nothing to say about the other candidates because I know nothing about them. But I do know enough about Kerbel’s activities that should be a red flag and part of any due diligence when he wants your money and your vote. May the best man or woman win and if you think that is Kerbel, believe me I will sleep like a baby tonight. The reason I’m here is in fact because Kerbel has taken up shop here. If he were a clerk at McDonald’s or a hardware store, which is what he is more qualified to do, I wouldn’t bother. That’s because those positions are harmless to others for the most part. But of course, he wants to be the boss, or better yet, President. That isn’t as harmless and opens others up to be added to his long list of previous victims. Is that so hard to understand? I have not made it a secret and have explained twice that my purpose here is on behalf of his past victims, known and unknown, and to protect even you from falling under his destructive spell. But I guess the fact that he bilked senior citizens out of thousands of dollars and burned business partners who put their trust in him shouldn’t matter. Sorry but it does matter to those nursing the wounds of his behavior. Also the accusation of “hijacking” the discussion is a mischaracterization as I have not taken over anything. Like you, I’m just contributing my two cents worth that you obviously think I’m not entitled to do. But enough of the cons about Kerbel. In fairness of equal time and rebuttal, why don’t you give us the good points that should be considered about Mr. Kerbel? Not the random, shallow, narcissistic jibber he put out in his Letter to Libertarians. I mean solid, verifiable facts and accomplishments that show he is the right man for the job. I’m sure there are many who are just dying to hear the good stuff about him.

    In the meantime, good luck to all of you and that includes you langa.

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