California Libertarian Party Member Boomer Shannon Launches Write-in Campaign

Boomer

California will have its primary on June 7th. There are several races where only the incumbent is on the ballot. This has inspired a write-in campaign from a long-time Libertarian activist, known to most of us as Matthew “Boomer” Shannon.

He’ll be running in the 49th Assembly district, against incumbent Edward Lau (Democrat). This district encompasses 16 cities east of Los Angeles. This district has the highest concentration of Asians in the continental United States, including Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean populations.

Mr. Shannon brings years of activism to this campaign. He worked in the Steve Collett campaign for the 33 Congressional district in 2012. He has been very involved in California’s endeavors to legalize cannabis. He has served as the Libertarian Party of California’s southern vice chairman, and is currently an At-large member of the Executive Committee. On April 23, Mr. Shannon was awarded the award for Activist of the Year at the annual convention for the Libertarian Party of Los Angeles.

Boomer will reach out with several libertarian mainstays: lower taxes, fewer business, regulations, anti-war, combatting civil asset forfeiture. He hopes to respect the various cultures by reaching out to some area churches and cultural events.

To be a valid write-in candidate in California, a hopeful needs to submit 40 signatures from the district by May 24th. On election day, a voter will need to ask for special ballot in order to write in a name.

California is now a “top-two” state. The two candidates from all parties who receive the highest votes for each race will be on the November ballot.

Boomer’s website is http://run.boomer.run

“““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““`As of this date, there are 7 known districts with one on candidate running They are:

Senate – 33rd – Los Angeles County
Assembly – 32nd – Kings and Kern Counties
Assembly – 56th – Los Angeles County
Assembly – 58th – Los Angeles County
Assembly – 59th – Los Angeles County
Assembly – 73rd – Orange County
Assembly – 76th – San Diego County

If you are interested in running as a write-in for one of these openings, please contact Ted Brown at tbrown@ca.lp.org or (626) 429-1661.

95 thoughts on “California Libertarian Party Member Boomer Shannon Launches Write-in Campaign

  1. Andy

    This is nice, and I appreciate the effort, but write in candidates generally have little impact on elections.

    How about launching a ballot initiative to repeal the Top Two Primary for the 2018 election (it is too late to get started on making the 2016 ballot?

    Petition signature requirements will still be down in California due low voter turn out in the 2014 race for Governor, but they will likely shoot up again after the 2018 election, so 2018 will be the best opportunity to launch a ballot initiative to repeal Top Two Primary.

    It will probably cost around $3 million to put an initiative to repeal Top Two Primary on the ballot in California (this does not include any money for a Vote Yes on repealing Top Two Primary campaign). If it is not done in 2018, the price will increase for 2020.

    If Top Two Primary were repealed in California, I think that it could set the stage for rapid growth for the Libertarian Party of California.

  2. steve m

    “If Top Two Primary were repealed in California, I think that it could set the stage for rapid growth for the Libertarian Party of California.”

    June 5th 2012 Libertarian voter registration was 93657
    January 5th 2016 Libertarian Voter registration is 120,578

    About a 30% increase.

    My hunch is that a Trump Nomination combined with the ballot measure to Legalize pot will drive up Libertarian Registrations through the fall of 2016.

  3. Andy

    Steve, the growth in voter registrations for the LP in California has not grown the party. Party membership in California is down. Fundraising for the LP in California is down. The number of LP candidates in California is down. The number of elected Libertarians in California is down. Attendance at LP meetings in California is down.

    That growth in voter registrations is not really even because much of anything that the LP of CA has done, as it has more to do with:

    1) Libertarians outside the LP like Ron Paul, Andrew Napolitano, and John Stossel making the word libertarian more popular.

    2) Libertarians who had switched their voter registration to Republican so they could vote for Ron Paul in the primaries switching their registration back to Libertarian.

    3) a few years ago, a law was passed that allowed people with California drivers licenses and ID cards who were eligible to vote to register to vote online. Since lots of libertarians are computer geeks, this naturally helped lead to Libertarian Party voter registrations increasing.

    Having more voter registrations is nice, but it is not necessarily an indication of a strong and growing party. If it were, the American Independent Party would really be kicking butt in California right now, and we all know that this is not reality.

  4. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I’m curious, Andy,

    Every time I post something about California LP and what we’re doing, you point out that the party has gone way downhill and should be doing better. What is your purpose for always being negative about CA? Those of us who haven’t given up are doing our very best to improve it. Of course we know that it used to be a better state party, and that it should be better now. I just don’t understand why you feel the need to point it out over and over again.

  5. Andy

    My purpose in this post should be clear: Launch a campaign to repeal Top Two Primary in 2018, and use it as a springboard to re-energize and grow the Libertarian Party of California.

  6. Andy

    Jill, California is the state where I had the most involvement with the LP at the state and local level, and for the longest period of time. I was active there from the late 1990’s to the mid 2000’s. I have popped back for short occasions a few times since then, but that is it.

    Back in the late 1990’s and early 2000’s it really looked like the LP of CA was moving forward. If you had asked me back then where I thought the LP of CA would be today, I would have said that by 2016, the LP of CA would be much larger than it it is today, and that surely we’d have some elected Libertarians in the state legislature in Sacramento by 2016.

    So when I look at the LP of CA today, I see a party that is a shell of itself from when I was involved in it. It is painful to see, and it almost makes it seem like the work we did trying to build the party in the late 1990’s and early to mid 2000’s went to waste.

    The LP of CA is not the only state LP affiliate to go downhill, and I am equally hard on every state party affiliate that has declined, and the same goes with the party nationally.

    I am involved in this stuff because I want to win, not because I am content with losing.

  7. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    The state of the LP CA is very disheartening. It is very easy to get discouraged. Yes, trying to get Top Two repealed is an excellent goal. Personally, I don’t see that the people of this state are ready to even consider that yet, but we’ll have to judge whether we should proceed in 2017 or early 2018.

  8. Andy

    Jill, I talked about Top Two Primary with random members of the public in California while gathering petition signatures and voter registrations there in 2011 (I have petition a few time in California since then, but I did not bring up Top Two during those times). There was not one person whom I explained Top Two Primary to in California who said that they supported it.

    I think that if a ballot initiative to repeal Top Two Primary were to qualify for the ballot in California, it would stand a good chance of passing.

  9. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Well, that’s good to know, Andy (that you think there would be a good possibility of having it pass). It’s possible the Trump thing might help bring the top-two reality into more focus, also.

  10. Andy

    Presidential candidates are exempted from Top Two Primary, so I think pressure to repeal Top Two will come from races for other offices.

    I heard that there is a good possibility that Top Two Primary could result in Democrat vs Democrat as the only choices on the general election ballot for US Senate in California this year. If this happens, it will create a lot of demand to repeal Top Two Primary.

  11. rumor burnone

    Andy,

    You are wrong about CA. Activity and donations are up but they are going to different places than before.

    The one thing that killed California, and the party at large was the ending of the Universal Membership Program. In 2005-2006 the California membership went from several thousand to zero overnight when National forced the affiliates to get their own members. Every member that the California Party has they have had to re-recruit and that has been a slow process.

    The California convention had a lot of young active people at it. You should check it our some time.

    Write in candidates are a valuable part of strategically engaging the electoral process, you should not put them down or belittle the value of the effort. An active write in campaign that touches people can be far more impacting than a paper one.

    I think you don’t like them because they don’t pay for a lot of signature gathering 😉

  12. George Phillies

    Top Two has already resulted in the final election being two candidates of the same party…in a district that the other party’s Presidential campaign carried heavily.

  13. steve m

    Andy,

    you measure the party one way. I measure the party another way. In Oregon they would be identical which is one reason I like the current Oregon Libertarian Party.

  14. steve m

    Andy,

    Most of the growth in registration occurred from 2007 to 2014 but heavily centered around the fall of 2012. Which coincided with an effort to legalize pot and Governor Brown’s opposition to legal pot. I wish I had a demographic breakdown by age. My hunch is the growth was predominantly youth. Though one of my friends switched and at least another voted libertarian. Several of the children of my friends registered libertarian and rumor has so did their friends.

  15. Andy

    “rumor burnone
    May 5, 2016 at 11:13

    Andy,

    You are wrong about CA. Activity and donations are up but they are going to different places than before.”

    Compared to when? Certainly NOT compared to the LP of California from the late 1990’s and early to mid 2000’s.

    The LP of CA has in fact gone downhill since then, so my point stands.

    “he one thing that killed California, and the party at large was the ending of the Universal Membership Program. In 2005-2006 the California membership went from several thousand to zero overnight when National forced the affiliates to get their own members. Every member that the California Party has they have had to re-recruit and that has been a slow process.”

    This was one of several things, but the ending of the UMP did not just hurt the LP of CA, it hurt a bunch of state parties, so this alone cannot be used to explain the decline of the LP of CA.

    I think that the bigger issues were internal dysfunction and lack of activity, and then after the 2010 primary election, the passage of Top Two Primary.

    “The California convention had a lot of young active people at it. You should check it our some time.”

    This was already discussed here in a previous thread, but turn out at the LP of CA convention that was just held in the Los Angeles area near LAX (airport) was pretty bad. It was reported that only something like 65 delegates showed up, and that only around another 35-40 or so people who were not delegates showed up to see the presidential debate.

    I hate to break it to you, but that is poor turn out for a state that has a population of over 38 million people, with a convention in the largest city and metropolitan area in the state, with around 3.9 million people in the city limits of Los Angeles, and around 12.8 million people in the metropolitan area. The convention was also within a 1-3 hour drive of other highly populated parts of California, like San Diego. Plus, the convention was close to the airport, which would have made it easy for people from northern California to fly if they did not feel like driving that far.

    A couple of years ago the Libertarian Party of Arkansas, a state with 10 times less population than California, attracted over 100 people to their state convention. The Libertarian Party of Minnesota just attracted a similar number of people to their state convention, and Minnesota only has about 5.457 million people.

    I was a delegate to the LP of CA State Convention in 2005 that was also held near LAX and it was much better attended than the convention that just happened.

    Attracting less people to a state convention this year than a state convention held 11 years ago in the same place is not a sign of growth, especially when the 2016 convention was held in a presidential year and the 2005 convention was not.

    “Write in candidates are a valuable part of strategically engaging the electoral process, you should not put them down or belittle the value of the effort. An active write in campaign that touches people can be far more impacting than a paper one.”

    I am not “putting down” the write in candidate. I think that it is a valiant effort and I give the candidate credit for running.

    My point was that it is a shame that this is what the LP of CA has been reduced to. Wouldn’t it be better if this candidate was actually on the ballot, and not just for the Top Two Primary, but actually the general election ballot?

    Running as a write in is better than not running at all, but reality is that write in candidates almost never go anywhere. It would be much better if the candidate was actually on the November election ballot.

    “I think you don’t like them because they don’t pay for a lot of signature gathering ”

    This is a ridiculous statement.

    First of all, I NEVER said that I did not like anyone. I like every Libertarian Party affiliate and want every affiliate to be as successful as possible.

    Second of all, whether or not a state affiliate is paying for signature gathering is irrelevant to me. California already has more petition work than any other state being that it has an initiative, referendum, and recall process at the state, county, and city level, and being that they can happen at any time during the year, so I do not really need any petition work from the Libertarian Party of California if I want to do this type of work in California (which I have on many occasions).

    Also, my concern about the success of the Libertarian Party has nothing to do with whether or not the Libertarian Party has any petitioning work at all, as my biggest concern is the overall cause of liberty.

  16. Andy

    “George Phillies
    May 5, 2016 at 11:29

    Top Two has already resulted in the final election being two candidates of the same party…in a district that the other party’s Presidential campaign carried heavily.”

    It has not happened in a high profile statewide race as of yet, but it may happen in the US Senate race in California this year, as I have heard that the two leading contenders to advance after the primaries are both Democrats. If that happens, I expect to see increased demand to repeal Top Two.

  17. Andy

    “steve m
    May 5, 2016 at 11:33

    Andy,

    you measure the party one way. I measure the party another way. In Oregon they would be identical which is one reason I like the current Oregon Libertarian Party.”

    If party strength were simply measure by number of registered voters under a party banner, than then as I said above, the American Independent Party in California would really be kicking butt, and we all know that this is far from reality.

    Also, while LP registrations have recently gone up in California, the number of LP registrations actually declined for several years prior to that, and it actually put the LP of CA in jeopardy of losing ballot access at one point.

  18. Andy


    “steve m
    May 5, 2016 at 11:39
    Andy,

    Most of the growth in registration occurred from 2007 to 2014 but heavily centered around the fall of 2012. Which coincided with an effort to legalize pot and Governor Brown’s opposition to legal pot. I wish I had a demographic breakdown by age. My hunch is the growth was predominantly youth. Though one of my friends switched and at least another voted libertarian. Several of the children of my friends registered libertarian and rumor has so did their friends.”

    I have been following the number of LP registrations in California and other states for years, and I remember that the number of LP registrations was in decline from around the mid 2000’s until around 2012. Like I said above, the LP of CA was actually in jeopardy of losing ballot access at one point due to registrations declining. Fortunately, more people started registering Libertarian, plus the law ended up getting changed to where the number of registrations needed to stay on the ballot went down.

  19. Andy

    Jill, if there is going to be an effort to get an initiative on the 2018 California election ballot to repeal Top Two Primary, that effort needs to get organized and start raising money in 2017. If an effort like this is put off until early 2018 it will be too late by then to get organized enough to put the issue on the ballot for the 2018 election and will almost certainly fail.

    So if nobody has gotten the ballot rolling by say October or November of 2017, then it is probably not going to happen.

  20. Andy

    If I were putting together an effort to repeal Top Two Primary for the 2018 ballot, I’d start getting organized in early 2017.

  21. steve m

    Andy,

    If you look at election returns with respect to voter registration you get a different impression. The American Independent party has high registration but it gets low vote totals with respect to its registration.

    The California Libertarian Party on the other hand particularly in the 2012 election had record registration and even higher vote totals.

    In 2012 the CALP had 108736 registered voters and received 143221 votes for its presidential candidate

    the American Independent Party had 477129 registered voters and received 42811 votes for its presidential candidate.

    So with respect to the CALP it has been growing not only in registrations and in votes.

    I get why you are so upset. These registered voters aren’t donating money to the party that you can then extract in services.

  22. Andy

    Steve, that was an idiotic comment that you just made that i am supposedly upset that more registered Libertarians in California are not donating money to the LP so I can get paid off of their donations.

    1) I joined the Libertarian Party in 1996. I did not do any paid work for the party until 2000.

    2) I only do paid contracting work with the LP some of the time, as in i am frequently working on projects that are not Libertarian Party, and sometimes I am not working at all. It has actually been 6 months since I have done any paid LP work.

    3) I have spent thousands of hours doing unpaid volunteer work for the Libertarian Party, plus I have spent several thousand dollars on Libertarian Party activism, including donations to the party or to candidates.

    4) The Libertarian Party is not always the highest paying ballot access gig around, and there have been multiple instances where I turned down higher paying work from other organizations in favor of working on Libertarian Party projects, just because I wanted the party to get ahead. If I just said, “Screw the Libertarian Party and screw principles.” and always went for the highest paying work I would have a lot more money right now.

    5) Money is the life blood of politics. The fact of the matter is that the Libertarian Party needs to raise and spend a lot more money than it currently takes in if it wants to be successful. So regardless of whether or not any of the money goes to me, the Libertarian Party needs to greatly increase its fundraising if it ever wants to move ahead.

  23. steve m

    Andy,

    Fact: In this thread, you are pushing to have an initiative petition drive.

    Fact: You make at least part of your living off of doing such petitioning work.

    Fact: you discredit growth that doesn’t have cash associated with it.

  24. Ralph Gordon

    I gotta say that Steve M is totally owning Andy J in this conversation. Speaking as an objective outside observer with no dog in this particular fight.

  25. Andy

    Another idiotic statement from Steve M.

    Fact: The Libertarian Party would have to pay to get on the ballot in a lot of states whether I am involved with it or not.

    Fact: It takes money to run a political organization whether I am involved with it or not.

    Fact: Whether I am involved with it or not, by most measures of success, the Libertarian Party of California has gone downhil.

    Who in the hell is this Ralph Gordon character? Probably another paid government troll posting under a fake name and an IP anonymizer.

  26. Andy

    Steve M used the 2012 presidential vote total as some evidence that the LP of CA is strong. This is flawed reasoning, because,

    1) Gary Johnson was the highest profile minor party or independent candidate in the race, and he benefited from Ron Paul making the word libertarian more popular, and therefore the presidential vote total was up in most states, and this had little to do with anything that the LP of CA did.

    2) Votes for LP candidates in California are down overall, and due to Top Two Primary, the LP of CA hasn’t been able to get anyone on the general election ballot except for the presidential candidate, and that is only because presidential candidates are exempt from Top Two, and even when it comes to non-partisan local races, the number of Libertarians elected to non-partisan local offices has declined.

  27. Ralph Gordon

    Just a regular guy, never been involved in any party machineries or machinations. And I think you are the paid troll. You certainly have a whole lot of time on your hands and fit the profile of a disinfo agent or agent provocateur to a T.

  28. Andy

    I do not discredit growth that does not involve cash. That is a retarded statement, and a flat out distortion of reality.

    Also, whether growth cost money and how much is a difficult thing to quantify. Unless we spoke to everyone who registered Libertarian and asked them why they did it, we do not really know why they did.

    Some may have done it by accident, or maybe because they thought Libertarian was like left wing liberal.

    Others may have saw John Stossel of Andrew Napolitano on TV. Well guess what? It takes a lot of money to run a TV show, and Stossel and Napolitano both get paid.

    Maybe they heard about libertaianism from Ron Paul. Well guess what? The Ron Paul campaign raised over $40 million.

    Maybe they heard about libertaianism from the Cato Institute or the Ludwig von Mises Institute. Well guess what? Those institutes both raise a lot of money.

    Maybe they saw the Libertarian Party’s website, LP.org. Well guess what? The party spent money to create that website, and the party spends money to maintain it as well. The LNC even recently voted to pay an LNC member $20,000 to design a new website.

    Maybe the read a libertarian book. Well guess what? Books cost money, and authors usually get paid.

    Maybe they read a libertarian pamphlet or flyer. Well guess what? It costs money to print pamphlets and flyers.

    The increase in LP voter registrations in CA is nice, but the current total really is not that much higher than what it was in the late 1990’s or early 2000’s (I recall it going up to around 100,000 back then), before it declined for several years to the point where it almost lead to the LP of CA losing ballot access. It is great that it has gone back up again, but keep in mind that the population has increased as well, and, like I said above, this increase had little to do with anything that the LP of CA did, and the fact remains that by most measures, the LP of CA has declined from where it was in the latec1990’s and early and mid 2000’s.

  29. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I consider Andy a friend, and I hope he still considers me a friend. But, I will say that I’m really sick of his negativity. I know the California LP needs to get better. Much better. But, I’m doing the very best that I can to improve it, and many good people are also working very hard to do that. It’s really crummy for someone who doesn’t live here to keep reminding us what a big job we have.

  30. Andy

    Jill, i am in California right now. I have been in CA for the last few weeks.

    I was also in California for 4 months from late 2014-early 2015.

    I have spent lots of time in California, and i was in fact active in the state party there for years.

    You might think that I sound “too negative”, but if you would take the time to read what I said, I offered constructive advice.

    Libertarians should form a committee to repeal Top Two Primary, and start raising money to get it on the 2018 ballot. Given the large volume of signatures needed, it will be necessary to hire outside of party ranks to get it on the ballot, but I would encourage every Libertarian in California to pick up pens and clip boards and go out and gather signatures to repeal Top Two Primary, whether they do it in a paid or unpaid capacity. This would also be an excellent opportunity to for Libertarians to hand out Libertarian Party pamphlets and flyers and bumper stickers to the public, and to hand out jury nullification information as well, plus it would also be an excellent opportunity to ask more people to register as Libertarians.

    It really seems like some people around here are too sensitive and do not want to face reality. You think my comments about the decline of the LP of CA are too harsh? Well read what I have said about the LP nationally, or the LP of Pennsylvania, or the LP of Oregon, or a couple of our past presidential campaigns, for just a few examples of me making critical comments.

    Is this a party of thin skinned people who can’t stand hearing any critical remarks? Politics is not for the thin skinned.

  31. steve m

    I do track the data!

    California Libertarian Registration

    March 7th 2000 87183
    Nov 7th 2000 94900
    Feb 10th 2001 93360
    March 5th 2002 92318
    Nov 5th 2002 90495
    Feb 10th 2003 89356
    Oct 7th 2003 89540
    March 2nd 2004 86053
    Nov 2nd 2004 89617
    Feb 10th 2005 89328
    Nov 8th 2005 83968
    June 6th 2006 83132
    Nov 7th 2006 84093
    Feb 10th 2007 83420
    Feb 5th 2008 80435
    June 3rd 2008 79711
    Nov 4th 2008 83574
    Feb 10th 2009 83786
    May 19th 2009 83363
    June 8th 2010 86675
    Nov 2nd 2010 91111
    Feb 10th 2011 92246
    June 5th 2012 93657
    Nov 6th 2012 108736
    Feb 10th 2013 109636
    June 3rd 2014 116733
    Nov 4th 2014 120804
    Feb 10th,2015 121876

    Libertarian candidate for POTUS California Election Results

    2000 45520
    2004 50165
    2008 67582
    2012 143221

    I never claimed the Libertarian Party of California is strong, I claimed it is growing. Despite Top 2!

  32. steve m

    Andy,

    You are looking in a mirror.

    “Is this a party of thin skinned people who can’t stand hearing any critical remarks? Politics is not for the thin skinned.”

    you are too funny. You get intellectually challenged and you result to silly insults.

  33. Andy

    Nicholas, perhaps I have been given misinformation about the cost of the website, or perhaps I am missing some other detail. This was the story that I was told, so I wad not lying, I was merely repeating what I heard from other people, some of whom post here.

    Feel free to post the correct story. Did the LNC.recently vote to allocate money to build a new website? If so, how much is it going to cost? Is an LNC member going to be the one making the site? if indeed the vote was made to allocate money for a new site?

    If somebody else reading this can supply the proper information if I got something wrong feel free to do so.

    Regardless of the details above, my point was that a person may register as a Libertarian after seeing w website, but there were likely costs involved in putting up that website.

  34. Andy

    So I was not far off in what I said about LP voter registration totals, and I said that without looking it up for a memory refresher.

    I knew it got close to 100,000 at one point, and then went down for awhile, and then went up, (note that LP registrations have gone up in a lot of states), post Ron Paul, and post the passing of a law that allows the registration process to be completed online.

    The presidential vote total went up in 2012 in most states for the LP, in large part because of the Ron Paul affect, and because Gary Johnson was running in a weak field of minor party and independent candidates (as in no Nader or Buchanan or Perot to “steal” the spotlight).

    Neither of these things are signs of a strong state party.

  35. steve m

    Andy,

    From 2008 to 2012 the vote total not only went up it more then doubled! Then if you look at vote totals in comparison to registration totals. The number of votes cast in 2012 were significantly larger then the number of registrations (over 30% larger). You say it was Ron Paul. I say it was Legalize Pot! But here is the kicker… No legal Pot in 2008 and there was a Ron Paul! in 2008, (30% under) which was an increase from the previous elections.

    By the way congratulations you almost wrote a reply without an insult. I say almost because you had a back handed one in this last reply. I don’t have the numbers memorized but I do track them in a spreadsheet.

  36. Andy

    Jill, should people here no longer comment on the LP of Oregon or the LP of Florida unless they live there?

    Funny that I am sitting in California right now, while being criticized for criticizing the lack of progress of a state affiliate that I was involved with and worked to help build for several years.

  37. Andy

    Yes, and in 2008 the LP had Bob Barr as a candidate, and Bob Barr passed off a lot of libertarians, so they did not vote for him, plus Barr had to compete against the higher profile Ralph Nader, while their were no higher profile minor paryu or independent candidates for Johnson to compete against for votes.

  38. steve m

    Andy,

    from 2000 to 2012 each Libertarian POTUS candidate has done better turning out the LP registered voters then their predecessors.

    ratio of votes / registration as a percentage

    Brownie 47.97%
    Badnarik 55.98%
    Barr 80.86%
    Johnson 131.71%

    During the same time period the Republican Party registration has been dropping in California.

    Do you claim this extended growth from 2000 to 2012 was due only to Ron Paul?

    Maybe it was an effect of your leaving the state? 😉

  39. Andy

    Steve, I have popped up back here on multiple occasions, and like I said above. I am in California right now.

    I have heard about the number of registered Republicans and Democrats dropping in other states as well, and Libertarian registrations have been on the rise in most states that have partisan registration.

    You keep obsessing on the number of voter registrations and votes in the presidential race, neither of which are thing I would consider to be the best ways to measure the strength of a state party.

    There are lots of registered Libertarians in Pennsylvania (relatively speaking), yet the LP of PA has been in pretty bad shape over the last several years. Hopefully this will be the year where the LP of PA starts to make a big comeback.

  40. Andy

    I just looked up California population figures.

    There were 33 million and something Californians in 2000.

    There are 38 million and something Californians in 2016.

    This puts those voter registration numbers Steve posted above into perspective.

  41. steve m

    Good perspective Andy,

    It demonstrates my point. While burying yours.

    The population of California increased by 15%, The libertarian party registration increased by 50% and Libertarian POTUS vote totals increased by 218%

    you were saying Andy?

  42. steve m

    Andy,

    Well not including what happens in Nov 2016 for the Libertarian registration and POTUS candidate totals.

    I am book marking this thread for later use.

  43. steve m

    What hasn’t happened is turning the Libertarian voters and registrations into dues paying members (for the benefit of Andy)

  44. Nicholas Sarwark

    Nicholas, perhaps I have been given misinformation about the cost of the website, or perhaps I am missing some other detail. This was the story that I was told, so I wad not lying, I was merely repeating what I heard from other people, some of whom post here.

    Feel free to post the correct story. Did the LNC.recently vote to allocate money to build a new website? If so, how much is it going to cost? Is an LNC member going to be the one making the site? if indeed the vote was made to allocate money for a new site?

    See the meeting minutes of the last LNC meeting, pages 10 and 11. https://www.lp.org/files/20160220_LNC.pdf

    In the future, you may want to be careful repeating stories you hear without verifying the facts.

  45. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    From Brian Thiemer, the Northern Vice Chair of the LP CA: “The Libertarian Party of California has been getting new inquiries and/or volunteers at the rate of one every five minutes, for the last three days. This is exciting!”

    Yay!!!

  46. Fappy Killmore

    Wow, Andy is getting from all sides in this thread! It’s almost embarrassing to see someone beaten so badly in an argument.

  47. Andy

    “Fappy Killmore
    May 6, 2016 at 19:11

    Wow, Andy is getting from all sides in this thread! It’s almost embarrassing to see someone beaten so badly in an argument.”

    Not quite as embarrassing as being some cowardly douche bag who hides behind a fake screen name like Fappy Gilmore.

  48. Fappy Killmore

    It’s Fappy Killmore. And I’m not embarrassed at all. What matters is what is said, not who says it. If you don’t agree, too bad. But, if I was losing as badly as you are in this thread, I’d be tempted to try to deflect attention with ad hominem as well.

  49. Andy

    “steve m
    May 6, 2016 at 03:30

    Good perspective Andy,

    It demonstrates my point. While burying yours.

    The population of California increased by 15%, The libertarian party registration increased by 50% and Libertarian POTUS vote totals increased by 218%”

    It does not really prove anything, Steve.

    The LP of CA had 94,000 and something registered Libertarians back around the late 1990’s to early 2000’s. Over the last 16 years, the state has added around 5 million people in terms of population, yet LP voter registrations are only up to 120,000. That is only a gain of about 26,000 registrations, and the gain only came after years of registrations declining,

    What exactly did the LP of CA do to get these registrations? Maybe a little, but not much. I’d wager that more of it had to do with people like Ron Paul, John Stossel, and Andrew Napolitano making the word libertarian more popular, and with California passing a law that allowed the entire voter registration process to be completed online, which appeals to computer geeks, who are more libertarian on average than non-computer geeks, than this had anything to do with anything that the LP of CA did.

    Has the Libertarian Party of California increased its number of dues paying members over what it was in the late 1990’s and early to mid 2000’s? No.

    Has the Libertarian Party of California increased the number of elected Libertarians? No.

    Has the Libertarian Party of California increased its fundraising? No.

    Has the Libertarian Party of California increased its number of candidates on the ballot? No.

    Has the Libertarian Party of California seen an increase in the number of people attending meeting, and their number of outreach events? No.

    More people checking the Libertarian Party box on their voter registration form is nice, and it is a good sign, but it has not led to a stronger state party, at least not at this point.

    Libertarian Party voter registrations have been on the rise in a bunch of states (out of the ones who have partisan voter registration), and like I said, this is a good sign, but it has not erased the fact that national party membership is down, fundraising is down, and the number of elected Libertarians is down.

    You are reminding me of that guy from the American Independent Party who pops up here at IPR every so often to brag about how many voter registrations that they have in California, never mind the fact that a good 95% of those registrations are “soft” rather than “hard”, and never mind the reality that their party is a big empty shell.

    Now going from my extensive on-the-ground experience in California and in other states, I’d wager that the LP of CA’s registrations are “harder” than the AIP’s registrations, as in that a higher percentage of the people who have registered Libertarian actually have at least a vague idea of what the party is about compared to those who registered under the American Independent Party banner, but even so, the fact remains that these voter registrations have not created a stronger state party.

    The fact that Libertarian Party voter registrations have gone up in most states that have partisan voter registration is a good sign, as it shows that there is demand for our product, but the party is failing to translate these voter registrations into a stronger party, and the fact of the matter is that the party has not done a whole hell of a lot to get these registrations (like I said above, I’d give a lot of credit to Ron Paul, John Stossel, Andrew Napolitano and a few others for making the word libertarian more popular).

    Just imagine what the Libertarian Party could do if it every really got its act together. I still see lots of untapped potential.

  50. Fappy Killmore

    Out of curiosity Mr. Know It All Andy… what petitions are you currently working on? Just curious. I know what’s paying in California now so I am just curious which ones you are refusing to work on out of principle and which ones you’re not. I also heard you worked on some Republican petitions this past winter. Was it only Rand Paul or some of the less libertarian ones too? Inquiring minds want to know….

  51. Andy

    “rumor burnone
    May 6, 2016 at 10:46

    Andy,

    You are in California? Why are you not putting your expertise to work for this Boomer campaign?”

    I would if I were working in Boomer’s area.

    I used to regularly hand out Libertarian Party materials while gathering petition signatures on pro-liberty ballot initiatives, referendums, and recalls in California. I would occasionally bring in some volunteer Libertarian voter registrations as well.

    When I was working on a marijuana legalization initiative in Nevada back in 2004, I met up with members of the Clark County Libertarian Party, and at the time they had made thousands of glossy hand outs that promoted their party and their slate of candidate and they were going around the Las Vegas metropolitan area handing them out to the public. I took a stack of their hand outs and handed them out while gathering signatures on the marijuana petition. After people would sign the marijuana petition, I’d offer them to people and say something like, “This is for the Libertarian Party. They want to legalize marijuana. You can read about them here, and check out their website.” or something like that. There were two other Libertarians who were working with me there and I grabbed extra stacks of the hand outs for them to distribute to the public while gathering signatures on the marijuana petition, which they did.

    I don’t know how much longer I am going to stay in California, so I doubt that I’ll make it to the district where Boomer is running. If I were there I’d be happy to help promote his campaign, and the same goes for just about any other LP candidate.

  52. Jebediah Nimrod

    Well, if you are working on raising cigarette taxes, I hope you are not associating the LP with that.

  53. Andy

    “steve m
    May 6, 2016 at 03:37

    What hasn’t happened is turning the Libertarian voters and registrations into dues paying members (for the benefit of Andy)”

    Steve, you really come off as irrational when you make a comment like that. It takes money to run political organizations. This would be true whether I ever did any paid ballot access work for the LP or not (and even if I did not, the party would just have to spend that same money hiring other people). The Libertarian Party spends money on lots of things beyond ballot access, and there are lots of things that the Libertarian Party could spend money on that could help grow the party IF the party had the money to spend.

    Do you want to run Libertarian Party TV or radio commercials? That costs money.

    Do you want to put up Libertarian Party billboards? That costs money.

    Do you want to send out Libertarian Party mass mailings to voters? That costs money.

    Do you want to run more Libertarian Party candidates? That costs money.

    Pretty much anything that you want to do in politics costs money.

    Democrats and Republicans and other political organizations (like ballot initiative committees and lobbying groups) spend millions and millions of dollars on politics. Why do they do that? BECA– USE THEY WANT TO WIN.

    One of the main reasons that the Libertarian Party is not more successful is due to a lack of money.

    If you think that a political organization can be successful without money then you are living in fantasy land.

  54. steve m

    Andy,

    I want to thank you for putting words in my mouth. If you are going to keep doing so there is really no point in my putting effort into expressing my ideas.

    You obviously are so much more capable of expressing what I am thinking then I am myself.

    I never said money wasn’t important. Those were words you dreamed up and decided to attach to me. Highly unethical of you.

    For the record. I have donated $18,900 to various candidates, ballot access drives and even the LNC.

    I donated $1600 to the Oklahoma ballot access drive.

  55. steve m

    Andy,

    >You are reminding me of that guy from the American Independent Party who pops up here at IPR every so >often to brag about how many voter registrations that they have in California, never mind the fact that a >good 95% of those registrations are “soft” rather than “hard”, and never mind the reality that their party is a >big empty shell.

    The difference is that the statistics show that people who register Libertarian more then likely vote Libertarian. The AIP registered voters don’t vote for their own candidates.

    in 2012 the aip had 477129 registered voters and their POTUS candidate only received 38372 votes. Only 8% of the AIP registered voters voted for the AIP candidate.

    in 2012 the Libertarian Party had 108736 registered voters and received 143221 votes for their POTUS candidate which is 132%

    Comparing the AIP to the LP is ridiculous.

  56. steve m

    Andy asks… Do you want to run more Libertarian Party candidates?

    but Andy, this article is about an individual deciding to run for office as a Libertarian.

    Then you tell him not to…. you tell him to go do something else….

    Well well…. such a disconnect.

  57. Barry Swift

    Hey Andy, after you get done telling everyone a complete list of which candidates and initiatives you have worked on over the past year, maybe you can tell us when the last time you got laid was. Maybe you’ll feel less tense and angry so much if you got some action? Lighten up dude, quit being so jacked up and preachy all the time.

  58. Andy

    “Jebediah Nimrod
    May 6, 2016 at 20:13

    Well, if you are working on raising cigarette taxes, I hope you are not associating the LP with that.”

    OK, this is obvious government surveillance going on here. Whoever is posting this is an obvious government troll.

    There are a slew of ballot initiatives going on in California. There have been 14 state wide ballot initiatives. Some pro-liberty, some anti-liberty, and some I’d put in a liberty neutral category.

    I arrived in California well into the cycle, as in I missed multiple weeks of it. When I arrived, one of the petitions I wanted to work, a petition to end the death penalty, which was paying $4 per signature, had ended, so I missed getting to work on it as it had just been cut off before I started.

    Some of the others had ended as well. I could have worked, but flat out REF– USED to carry, a petition for a new gun control law, which was paying $4 per signature, and a petition to speed up the death penalty (I think it limits the appeals, or something like that), which was paying $5.50 per signature.

    I was handed a big stack of petitions of all of the other issues. There was a government transparency issue paying $5.50, a marijuana legalization issue paying $3, a petition having to do with the allocation of a paper bag fee that the state may be imposing pending a referendum vote this fall paying $2 (not something that I really give a shit about), pay to executives at non-profit hospitals paying $4 (not something I care much about either), a criminal sentencing reform for non-violent offenders petition paying $5 (this is endorsed by Jerry Brown, and even though Brown is a Democrat with whom I have disagreements, this is actually a good issue), a petition to increase tobacco taxes for healthcare paying $5 (not something I support), and a petition to extend an income tax increase on individuals making $250,000 or more per year, or couples making $340,000 or more per year filing jointing, for more education funding, which was paying $4 (not something I support).

    Out of these issues, I supported 3 of them, and two of them I was more neutral on, and/or I just did not really care much. Two of them I was against, and of course there were the other two which I was against, in the gun control petition and the speed up the death penalty petition.

    I missed several weeks of the petition drive, so a lot of people had already signed this stuff by the time I arrived. California is also an expensive place (one of the most expensive states, and there are a lack of motels that offer weekly rate discounts).

    Some places in California can be difficult to work, with lots of foreigners, and/or lots of people from other states, plus being that these were not fresh petitions when I started, lots of people had already signed, or they had signed some petitions, but they did not remember which of the 14 statewide ballot initiative petitions that were in circulation this year they had signed (I think the plug got pulled early on two or three of the petitions because they ran out of money), so you really had to grill them with questions to qualify them to sign.

    The good thing about California is that it is one of the best states for access rights for people doing petitions and voter registration at venues that carry public foot traffic, and there is lots of nice weather in lots of the state (although it can get uncomfortably hot once you get away from the coastal regions, but fortunately I have not been hit with that yet).

    I ended up mostly leading with the government transparency issue. I tried leading with the marijuana issue, and with the criminal sentencing reform issue, but I found it surprisingly difficult to get people to stop for those issues. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone in California is a left wing liberal, as it depends on where you go in California (California leans lefty liberal in most places, but there are still pockets in California where there are more conservatives, even though overall, liberals outnumber conservatives in California). I would like to have been able to hit an area where lots of people would be the type who’d run to sign for marijuana legalization and criminal sentencing reform, but given that I arrived weeks after those petitions had started, and given the high cost of motels in California, and given the relatively short time frame to work, I was not able to get to such a place.

    The government transparency issue was a bit of a mouth full to explain (it took more than “Sign for government transparency” to get people to stop), but once you got people to understand what it was, it seemed to appeal to most people. It was basically to require the legislature to post bills online for at least 3 days before they could vote on anything (therefore making it harder for them to sneak legislation through), and to allow for the legislature to be recorded. Most people who would take the time to find out what it was about supported it, the problem was getting people to stop so you could explain it to them.

    So I refused the gun control petition which was paying $4, and the speed up the death penalty petition which was $5.50, so that was $9.50 that was not on my clipboards right there. Then there was the income tax extension for education petition which I was handed copies of, but I never ended up collecting any signatures on it, which was $4. So now we are up to $13.50 which I did not work. Then there was the cigarette tax petition at $5. I did not work that one either at first, but then I reluctantly stuck it at the bottom of my clipboards and I got a few signatures on it to help cover my expenses. This was not something I enjoyed doing, but I have been in situations like this a few times in the past.

    I have worked on a small handful of crappy petitions that I did not believe in before, but it is not something that I have made a regular practice of doing, and I’ve never done it for a long period of time. I have also worked on some petitions for other minor parties and independent candidates, but I generally consider most minor party and independent candidates to be an improvement over the typical D’s and R’s. There have even been some short stints where I have gotten signatures for some D’s and R’s, which I really did not like doing at all (I basically got roped into it), with the exception of doing it for Ron and Rand Paul (I’m less of a fan of Rand than I am of Ron, but even so, Rand Paul was a better choice than any Democrat or Republican that has been part of the presidential election process this cycle).

    I was in Nevada in 2014 for a marijuana legalization initiative (ten years after the one I worked there in 2004), and during the same time period, there was a gun control petition which had received funding from Michael Bloomberg. The marijuana petition had gone up to $5 per signature, as did the gun control petition, plus they had a .50 cent bonus on each petition if you jumped through certain hoops, so it was $10-$11 per stop if you got people to sign both petitions. I refused to carry the gun control petition, and I am the only petition ciruclator that I am aware of during the period of time that I was there that did not work the gun control petition. I did have a copy of the gun control petition that I had grabbed just to read that I had left in my car, and I remember the day I was gathering signatures in front of a polling place during the Governor’s election I was tempted to walk out to the carry and grabbed the gun control petition, as I probably could have doubled my earnings, but I did not do it. I still had a good day that day, but I could have had an even better day if I had worked that gun control petition.

    I had the opportunity to go to San Diego to work a city ballot initiative petition for the San Diego Chargers that is still going on right now. The petition is to increase the motel occupancy tax by 5%, and to use the proceeds to build a new stadium for the Chargers. That petition hits the streets not to long ago at a whopping rate of $12 per signature (yes, you read that right, $12 per signature to the petition circulators the day the petition hit the streets). I’ve worked in San Diego before, and I could have gotten in on it, but I really do not like that petition, so I opted to not go.

    What is really revealing here is more evidence of these IPR trolls being from the government is the fact that I recently had telephone conversations with some of my “petitioning buddies” (including Libertarians Paul, Jake, and a couple of others that only a few IPR regulars would know, but both of whom are long time LP members), where I was lamenting over the cigarette tax petition.

    Several of the petitions have ended in California, including the government transparency issue, which I was using as my “stopper” petition, and the marijuana petition, which would have been a good “stopper” petition if I had made it to a good place for it (a college would have been good, but all of the big colleges were burned out by petition circulators before I arrived).

    I do have a few friends and/or friendly acquaintances who are petitioners who are not libertarians (a couple of them actually do lean libertarian, but they are not quite there, at least not yet, although I have been working on swaying them). I was talking to one of my non-libertarian petitioning associates yesterday, and I was telling them that I was having a harder time getting people to stop since the government transparency issue ended. He asked me which petition I was using to stop people. I told him the criminal sentencing reform petition. He suggested that I stop people with the cigarette tax petition. I told him that I’d have a hard time stomaching that.

    There are some local issues going on right now in other parts of California, so I am trying to decide if I should bother trying to get in on them or not, or if I should continue to stick around for the criminal sentencing reform issue. The two remaining statewide initiative petitions in California will likely be over soon. I am also considering leaving for work elsewhere. I have been asked several times to work on some Libertarian Party petition drives. I am also considering some other ballot initiative work in some other places.

  59. Fappy Killmore

    Thanks for that novel Andy. I didn’t know, I was just asking. And the short version is that yes, you have gotten signatures on the petition to increase cigarette taxes. I am disappointed but not surprised. Next, please regale the audience with what all Republican candidates you helped qualify this year. Was it only the “libertarianish” ones? Maybe a shorter version this time without the long winded explanations. Just a list would be fine. By the way, one of us might actually be a government troll, but that would not be me.

  60. Andy

    “Nicholas Sarwark
    May 6, 2016 at 13:55

    ‘Nicholas, perhaps I have been given misinformation about the cost of the website, or perhaps I am missing some other detail. This was the story that I was told, so I wad not lying, I was merely repeating what I heard from other people, some of whom post here.

    Feel free to post the correct story. Did the LNC.recently vote to allocate money to build a new website? If so, how much is it going to cost? Is an LNC member going to be the one making the site? if indeed the vote was made to allocate money for a new site?’

    See the meeting minutes of the last LNC meeting, pages 10 and 11. https://www.lp.org/files/20160220_LNC.pdf

    In the future, you may want to be careful repeating stories you hear without verifying the facts.”

    I agree with you here, and I am actually pretty big on accuracy. I had been told the story about the website by other people who post here whom I consider to be reliable sources, and they are for the most part, but you are right, I should have looked it up to fact check before I used it as an example.

    Like I said above, my point was not so much the cost of the website, but rather to illustrate that it costs money to get the libertarian message out to the public, whether getting the message out is in the form of a website, or a pamphlet or flyer, or a TV commercial, or a book, or conducting a petition drive, or whatever.

    Steve acted like there are no costs involved in inspiring people to register as Libertarians, and I was refuting his premise.

    People can hear about the Libertarian Party and philosophy in a bunch of ways, but there are generally costs involved in getting the message out. Even if a person hears about the Libertarian Party from a friend orfamily member, there were likely costs involved in that friend or family member finding out about the Libertarian Party.

    Lots of people found out about the Libertarian Party due to one of our candidates for a high profile office, usually a candidate for President. Libertarians have to spend money to run candidates for President.

    There are costs associated in everything you do in politics. Even when people are working in politics as unpaid volunteers, that is still time that they could be using to do other things, like working for pay, so by volunteering in politics they are sacrificing opportunity costs in time that they could be doing something else, and time is money.

    If the Libertarian Party is ever going to become more successful, the party is going to have to greatly increase its funding, and that’s all there is to it. This would be true whether or not I ever did any paid work for the party, or whether or not I was even involved in the party at all.

  61. steve m

    Andy,

    You just made the claim…

    “Steve acted like there are no costs involved in inspiring people to register as Libertarians, and I was refuting his premise.”

    That is completely untrue. It is further evidence that you are a rather unethical individual.

  62. steve m

    This is a re-run because obviously Andy is too busy typing to bother to read.

    Andy,

    I want to thank you for putting words in my mouth. If you are going to keep doing so there is really no point in my putting effort into expressing my ideas.

    You obviously are so much more capable of expressing what I am thinking then I am myself.

    I never said money wasn’t important. Those were words you dreamed up and decided to attach to me. Highly unethical of you.

    For the record. I have donated $18,900 to various candidates, ballot access drives and even the LNC.

    I donated $1600 to the Oklahoma ballot access drive.

  63. steve m

    How is making sizable donations pretending to that there are no costs? Can your brain come up with some sort of explanation as to why some one you accuse of thinking money doesn’t mater would put up more money then you make?

    talk about a reality distortion field… that would be your brain Andy

  64. steve m

    I am out of this conversation. Andy can make up thoughts for me all on his own and justify his making money by collecting signatures to raise taxes at the same time.

    Best wishes to Boomer Shannon. If you have a web site and are taking donations or doing as Thomas Knapp is doing and biking around your district and need some yard signs. I would be happy to help as I helped Tom.

  65. Jebediah Nimrod

    Well, you gotta hand it to Andy. He is getting pummeled worse than a runaway teen on meth in a back alley gangbang, but he keeps stepping back up to the plate for more abuse over and over and over and….

  66. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Is it worth explaining to him that the best way to get someone to perform their best is to praise their strengths, continue to point them out, and then slip in a criticism, pointing out that correcting that will make them even more awesome?

    Not that I’ve been successful with many employees and one highly successful kid, or anything.

  67. Russ Woodall

    Andy is one hardheaded dude. You can’t tell him anything. He’s absolutely sure he knows what’s best and everyone should just listen to him and do it his way. He can criticize all day long but if you tell him he goes about it the wrong way, well, you may as well be talking to a brick wall. In fact you’d probably have better luck if you were talking to an actual brick wall.

  68. Andy

    I would gladly help Boomer campaign (in spite of the fact that write in candidates usually do not have much of an impact) if I was in a position to do so, and the same goes for most other LP candidates (the only exceptions would be if it was somebody I did not consider to be “libertarian enough” and/or who i believed to be dishonest and/or who I considered to be a wacky goofball mental case).

    Where exactly is Boomer’s district? I recall him being somewhere around Riverside or San Bernardino County.

  69. Andy

    Steve, you are the one who keeps acting like I am just saying that the LP needs to raise more money so I can get paid to do ballot access work by the LP. That is an absurd statement that has no bearing on reality, and it is quite frankly an insult.

    I was a dues paying LP member for 4 years before I even knew that people could get paid to gather petition signatures. Heck, I did not even know that there were petition signature requirements that were required to place candidates on the ballot until I had been in the LP for 4 years.

    If I am working in a paid capacity on an LP ballot access drive, I am doing something that the party has to do to get on the ballot, and it would have to be done whether I was there or not. When I am in the field working in that capacity (which I have done on a few occasions as an UNPAID VOLUNTEER, in addition to the times I have gotten paid for it), I am also trying to grow the party, and I am trying to identify the libertarians, and libertarian leaners among the general public, and to get them plugged in to our network. I am probably the #1 person in the Libertarian Party for handing out Libertarian outreach material to the public. If anyone in the party has done more of this than I have i do not know who this person is.

    The Libertarian Party needs more donations so it can do all of the things that a political organization needs to do to grow and to be successful.

  70. steve m

    Andy,

    Did you take work on a ballot measure to raise taxes on tobacco or not?

    Do you make a living by doing signature gathering on petitions?

    Do you not regularly demand that signature collecting done by the Libertarian Party should go to libertarian petitioners?

    I will flat out state that you appear to have a vested interest in the Libertarian Party raising money and doing more petitioning.

    None of this has any bearing on whether or not I think money is needed for politics. My record of donating money shows that your claims about my beliefs are false and that your continuing to do so with full knowledge of my actions demonstrates your corruption and dishonesty.

  71. Andy

    Funny how these people keep popping up who seem to know a lot about the LP but whom I have never heard of before. Post the state and/or county Libertarian Party affiliate where you are a member. I will do a check to verify whether or not you are lying about being a party member.

    If you are a troll go fuck off and die.

  72. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Boomer lives in a town called Temple City, which is east and a little south of Pasadena (Los Angeles County). I know Rosemead is part of the district and also part of the town I live in, Monrovia. I also believe Arcadia is in the district, which is a very high per capita town with a famous school district that is something like 60 % Chinese immigrants now (I live 3 blocks out of Arcadia, for anyone who’s interested. Same foothill strip, but houses are a couple hundred dollars less because we don’t have the magical Arcadia school district.)

  73. Andy

    Steve, I said here a long time ago that I had worked on a small handful of shifty petitions over the years. A mercenary petitioner is somebody who works on something they do not believe in but they do it for money. I have done this a few times over the years, and I have never said that I had not, although 98% of the time I really do believe in what I am doing, so for the most part I have not been a mercenary petitioner.

    If I never believed in what I was doing I would have quit a long time ago, and for that matter, I probably would never have done it in the first place.

    If you looked at the list of every campaign I have worked on over the years, the vast majority of them were either libertarian, or libertarian leaning. I have turned down a hell of a lot of money over the years by turning down work on philosophical grounds.

    The few times I have worked as a mercenary petitioner, I can tell you that it sucks. It is really no fun at all being out there if you do not believe in what you are doing. It really tturns into more of a soul sucking experience (so to speak).

  74. steve m

    Andy,

    cool you are not a complete mercenary but you still have a vested interest in the LP raising cash and how they spend it.

    you also did not address my objection to your false claim “Steve acted like there are no costs involved in inspiring people to register as Libertarians, and I was refuting his premise.”

  75. steve m

    Andy,

    I have reviewed some data from the Oklahoma drive that does substantiate some of your claims on the effectiveness of libertarians doing the signature collection. I have also had discussions with state chairs (i think) that believe the same thing based upon their results. The Oklahoma data I saw specifically demonstrates you are a very effective petitioner.

    You should back off on your negative appraisals of what others in the party are doing and how they are doing it. Being a lot less critical and more open to discussion would make you a lot more effective.

  76. Andy

    When I said being a mercenary petitioner sucks, this is my opinion of doing it. There are obviously other people out there who like being mercenary petitioners.

    There are also people out there who may believe in a cause that is different from what I believe, so for them working on a cause that i do not believe in but that they do believe in is not an example of them being a mercenary (that is if they believe in the cause).

    When I wad in Nevada working a marijuana petition, and that gun control position was going at the same time (which I boycotted), most of the petitioners there were unphilosophical mercenaries. Some of them did believe in the marijuana petition, and some of them did believe in the gun control petition, so to them, working on the gun control petition was not a mercenary thing to do. There were others there who did nit give a shit and were just out for money, and there were a few who admitted the gun control petition was bad but they did it anyway for the money. Not giving a shit or working against your beliefs are mercenary actions.

    I can say from years of experience that most of the people in the petition business are purely mercenaries.

  77. Ralph Gordon

    “You should back off on your negative appraisals of what others in the party are doing and how they are doing it. Being a lot less critical and more open to discussion would make you a lot more effective.”

    I don’t have to be an active member of a local LP affiliate, or for that matter a LP member at all, to agree with this sentiment which is being expressed by more than one party insider, Andy “higher cigarette taxes” Jacobs. These days you can learn a lot just by sitting at home or at a Starbucks and reading the internet; you don’t have to go to boring party meetings with stodgy old white Anglos in the back of a Denny’s or send your hard earned money to some useless committee’s PO Box or even change your voter registration to learn quite a bit about what goes on. Besides, it’s just common sense and doesn’t take a lot of time following you all online to figure that sort of thing out.

    . These days a lot of people who have never been LP members or even LP voters are checking the party out and spending some time doing this kind of research. A lot of them are lurking, and a few are jumping in and expressing their outsiders perspective. Start getting used to it. If you want an old boys club go start one and stop trying to keep your party as one by chasing everyone new who shows up off with your condescending know it all attitude and caustic manner. If you think only present party members who show up to meetings are qualified to have an opinion, you are basically just trying to keep your party very small.

    But, as Mr. Knapp pointed out recently, the person that is always pointing fingers and accusing everyone else of being government infiltrators over and over is the one most likely to be a government infiltrator themselves. Maybe you are, maybe you aren’t. But you sure do act like one a lot, Andy.

  78. Ralph Gordon

    Sorry for the tl; dr. Long story short, if you can’t answer the points being made, try to flail your arms and deflect attention to who’s saying it. Who gives a fuck who’s saying it? None of your business and leave it at that. You can either answer the points and questions being raised or you can’t. And if you can’t, everyone paying attention will know no matter how much you try to change the subject. BTW which Republican candidates did you help qualify this year?

  79. Bud Fein

    “I have reviewed some data from the Oklahoma drive that does substantiate some of your claims on the effectiveness of libertarians doing the signature collection. I have also had discussions with state chairs (i think) that believe the same thing based upon their results. The Oklahoma data I saw specifically demonstrates you are a very effective petitioner.”

    I gotta say based on what I have seen here that is surprising. Kudos to Andy for being a good petitioner despite all the time he spends on here tearing the party, new people showing an interest, etc down. Honestly I would have guessed he is a blowhard who does not have much time to actually get out and petition based on how he presents himself here. Kudos to Steve M for giving credit where it is due. Hopefully Andy learns from that example.

    Andy didn’t answer in what year or decade was the last time he got laid. That is not to make fun of him, but I am guessing it was a long time ago if ever. I think maybe he would not be such an angry, anal asshole if he went out, got a date, had sex and blew off some steam and tension. He needs to relax a bit, do some stuff for fun and enjoy life a bit more. Maybe get some hobbies unrelated to politics?

  80. Andy

    Steve, every Libertarian Party member has a vested interest in how much money the Libertarian Party raises, and how the Libertarian Party spends its money.

    You do want the Libertarian Party to be successful, right? If so, you should want the Libertarian Party to raise as much money as possible, and to spend that money as effectively as possible.

    The Libertarian Party would have to spend money on ballot access drives whether I am working on them or not. The fact that I have worked on LP ballot access drives on and off over the last 16 years does not change this.

    Also, it is not like I am always working on LP ballot access drives. Sometimes I am working on other projects, and there are times where I am not working at all. Like I said above, I have not worked on an LP ballot access drive in 6 months. I had an 11 month gap from 2014 to 2015 where I did not work any LP ballot access drives. The longest gap I had of not working any LP ballot access drives went from December of 2001 until May of 2004, that was a gap of 2 years and 5 months of no LP ballot access drives.

    Although I generally like working on LP ballot access drives, there have been times where I have TURNED THEM DOWN in favor of other work.

    It is necessary for the Libertarian Party to raise and spend money if it wants to get ahead, and this is true regardless of who gets the money.

    There is nothing wrong with a person making money off of libertarian politics in and of itself, the greater issue is whether or not they are providing a good service or product in relation to the money that they are receiving. I believe in providing donors with a lot of “bang for their buck”, as in good value for their money, and i have a track record that proves this in terms of production, validity, success, and outreach/field recruiting.

    I would not have a problem with a libertarian earning $1 million a year or more off of libertarian politics, IF whatever goods or services that they produced were of a high enough quality to justify earning that much. We have probably all heard stories about the campaign worker who got paid big money and they provided a crappy service, and stories like that make me angry. However, if a person is produces a service or product that is cost effective in the battle for liberty, then so what if they make money off of it. Aren’t we a party that supports entrepreurship and hard work? Is this the Libertarian Party or is it the Socialist Party?

    I assume that you are familiar with the concept of division of labor. If so, you should realize that some people do not have the time, or ability, or the inclination to do all of the things necessary to build a political organization. This is why it is necessary for some people to specialize in certain areas and to get paid for providing certain goods or services. If I could not get paid for ballot access work, I would not be able to spend much or any time on it, because I would have to find other ways to make money. The same goes for every other function of the party.

    There are still costs involved when people do unpaid volunteer work for the party. There is the cost in time, and there are other costs as well. Traveling to a convention to be a delegate costs money (as does renting out the convention hall). If a volunteer wants to gather petition signatures, they have to pay money to print up the petitions. If a volunteer wants to hand out LP pamphlets and flyers it costs money to print up pamphlets and flyers.

    I fail to see how my sometimes getting paid for LP ballot access work, due to it being a necessary function of the party, and due to division of labor, as lots of other LP members do not have the time or the inclination to do it, invalidates any point that I have made on this thread.

  81. Bob Waller

    Another long lecture from Andy. Yet, not many answers to questions.

  82. rumor burnone

    NEW CONTENT ON WEBSITE!
    http://run.boomer.run

    Andy, if you are going to hijack a thread, I would implore you (down on my hands and knees style) to pay a little respect to the subject at hand. Your wall of text is a little bit of a downer in contrast to the hard work of the candidate the article is about. Normally people would only do that to people they don’t like. Is that the message? LOL

    Don’t get me wrong, your subject matter is important, but damn man, how about giving it up every once in a while for the hard work of others? 🙂 There are good people doing good things in the California LP and your blanket criticism is not only unbuffered negativity, but also not fully representative of the picture.

  83. Andy

    I was attacked here for speaking the truth. I am sure that Boomer is a fine candidate, and running as a write is better than not running at all, but the fact remains that everything that I said about the LP of California having gone downhill is true, and the same goes with a lot of other state LP affiliates (Oregon, Pennsylvania, etc…), and the same goes with the LP nationally.

    Apparently, some people would prefer to be told “warm and fuzzy” things rather than hearing the truth.

    Well, I am not the guy who is going to tell you that it is sunny out when it is not. I am going to speak the truth, even if some people do not like hearing that their political party has declined.

    I want the party to be more successful, which is why I frequently engage in party building activities, and which is why I offered suggestions above on ways to make the party more successful.

    Right now there is a thing called Top Two Primary that is holding the LP of California back. The LP of CA was already in decline before Top Two passed, but Top Two is making it more difficult for the LP of CA to pull itself out of its slump. People have already tried lawsuits against Top Two and so far this has not worked. The next step is to mount a ballot initiative to repeal Top Two Primary. The groundwork for this needs to be laid out in 2017 or it is not going to happen in 2018.

    If anyone has a better idea I would like to see it.

  84. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Andy asked: “If anyone has a better idea I would like to see it.”

    Yes, since you asked, I do have a better idea.

    You’ve spent a lot of time giving us suggestions, Andy. Thank you. They’re right here on this thread for any of us to refer to anytime we want suggestions as to how to grow the party. In fact, most of your suggestions have been listed here many times. Repetition can be good. Again, Andy, thank you for your suggestions.

    From this point on, I suggest you’ll be far more supportive by supporting those of us who work daily to strengthen the Libertarian Party of CA. There are lots of us, and you probably don’t even need names because we’re all out there. Get to know those of us who are moving forward. Gain their respect, and then we’ll be happen to listen to your suggestions. Those of us in the trenches of CA know that there’s a different world than the LP operated in years ago. There are new challenges and new breakthroughs to make. Pointing out that things used to be better here just discourages us. And, you don’t need to tell us–we all know that.

  85. rumor burnone

    Andy,

    An initiative to reverse Top Two would require a good five to ten million dollars. We can even come up with 1.5M to get pot legalized for all the interference despite it being a very popular change of law. How do you propose raising that in 2017?

    I am honestly asking – not being contrarian.

    On the other hand, regarding California, the state went downhill after UMP ended and the guys running the state spent all of their time finding ways to chase off members. I recall several purges and purge attempts all clustered at that time. Leadership in California raised dues to a ridiculous $50 (it was lowered almost immediately) and the floor fees for conventions skyrocketed to $150.

    The problem wasn’t Republican infiltrators (per se). The problem was people with game theory, thinking up plans, but lacking the talent for leadership. In that work they concentrated all of their efforts into killing off detractors. Setting them up, accusing them falsely, dragging out the past, attacking their families, it got nasty. The one thing that made you a target for attack was being successful. THAT is what has California in the mess it is in.

    The whole time: One donor… ONE… put money secretly into the hands of leadership in California and put strings on those funds that were impossible. Impossible because no one person had the authority to agree to them. The changes demanded buy-in from the membership that these so-called leaders did not know how to garner. Low-empathy-high-game-theory personalities pushed around by one donor. It was a recipe for disaster.

    All of your suggestions, Andy, are moot unless there is a membership base large enough to support them. That membership base is not going to exist while the paradigm for moving ahead is trying to take control of the party first and run some hail mary game plan. That only shrinks the party.

    The only strategy that works in the end, because it recognizes the human aspect of what a party is, and what it is for, is this: Leadership is elected who sole goal is not control but growth. They end the ability of factions to wage war on each other, they recruit new people and activate them and they distribute resources to multiple efforts and among multiple groups around the state so that their eggs are not all in one basket and there is less unhealthy competition.

    The question is, is there anyone in California with the skills and will to make that happen?

  86. steve m

    Andy,

    “I was attacked here for speaking the truth. ”

    No you weren’t. You were not attacked you were challenged and disagreed with. Your “truth” is biased and ignores other aspects of reality.

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