Open Thread for May 2016

cant_we_all_just_get_along

As the Presidential campaign heats up, there might be info from the major parties that might interest the people who read IPR. This would be a good place to post it.
There might be information from independent or other third-party candidates that a reader might wish to share. Or, there may just be something one of our readers want to say that doesn’t follow any of the threads from our articles.

Here is the place to put it! This open thread is for everything that doesn’t really fit anywhere else. Just make sure that you don’t plagiarize anything, or post something that could be considered libel.

In honor of a few of our musical giants passing from us this year, here are some videos from people we’ll miss, in no particular order. This also has nothing to do with politics, but don’t we all need a break sometimes?

221 thoughts on “Open Thread for May 2016

  1. Jeff Cottonwood

    PDiddie,

    Bernie Sanders will be endorsing and campaigning for Hillary Clinton. You can take that to the bank.

  2. Mark Axinn

    Recap of the LPNY Convention yesterday:

    A fantastic day was had by all at the venerable Ukrainian East Village Restaurant.

    We had 96 paid registrants, plus eight candidates and members of their staff, press personnel and a few additional guests (including two candidates for National Chair) for the largest LPNY Convention since 1994. We also had as many as 6500 viewers on the live-streamed debate! I will post a link when one is created.

    Alex Merced of Beautiful Brooklyn, New York will be the Libertarian candidate for US Senate against Upchuck Schumer (also of Brooklyn, just like another great liberal icon, Bernie Sanders).

    The results of the straw poll after the candidates’ debate are as follows:

    Gary Johnson 56%
    Austin Petersen 18%
    John McAfee 15%
    Darryl Perry 8%
    Others and NOTA 3%

    Finally, after more than a decade on the State Committee including five years as State Chair, I am glad to take a breather and look forward to many great things in the upcoming year from Mark Glogowski and the new team elected yesterday morning.

    Mark Axinn
    No longer Immediate Past Chair, LPNY

  3. Scott Lieberman

    Attn: Ms. Caryn Ann Harlos:

    I assume you are running for something at the Libertarian National Convention in Orlando, FL later this month.

    Which position are you running for? LNC Secretary? LNC Regional Representative? Or some other position?

    Why should we vote for you for that position as compared to your opponent(s)?

  4. Jeff Cottonwood

    Congratulations to LPNY on a successful convention, compared to other recent years. Hopefully you will kick things into high gear and present a good credible choice to the growing #NeverTrump movement.

  5. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Scott, I am fortunate I saw your message, I don’t usually participate in open thread posts.

    I am running in Orlando. I have been approached/it has been suggested by multiple people that I run for LNC Secretary. However, I am running for Regional Representative.

    As for why/qualifications. I have have been a massively productive volunteer willing to the work, work well with others, see things through to completion, and love the Party. I want to make a difference and advocate for issues and people close to my home and region. Many people will have massive or complicated plans for this or that, and what I offer is simple. I love the Party. I work hard for the Party… and have follow-through and organization. I will do the work. Always.

    Yes, I have ideas, but I often am the catalyst to provoke the creative juices in others and then come alongside as a tireless member of a support team. Which I would do for whatever vision the elected Chair has for the Party. While a well-known member of a particular caucus (or faction as you will), I am the person the other groups reach out to when looking to find some common ground and reasonable discussion, and I would do the same. I don’t believe in being just a critic of things if one is not willing to do the time. Nick challenged me last year that I I was going to complain or have an opinion, would I be willing to step up as well and be subject to the same scrutiny and accountability? And I stepped back and thought, he is right. So I will. I will bring the hard work I brought to the Colorado Party to the national governing board.

    Here is my letter of intent I sent to Norm Olsen when he solicited notifications from people intending upon running.

  6. Scott Lieberman

    Ms. Harlos:

    Thank you for your prompt response.

    Let’s just say – I would be really impressed if you can get yourself appointed to a public board or commission in the city or county that you live in. If you do that, you would be in a position to make a successful run for City Council or Regional Transportation District in 6 to 8 years.

  7. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Scott, thank you for your post… My husband will be seeking a local position next year. I tend to focus on internal Party governance, and he on local issues. It balances us out quite well (my husband is presently Vice Chair of the LPCO, I serve as Communications Director – the family that politicks together stay together)

  8. William Saturn

    Robert William Milnes has officially filed with the FEC as a presidential candidate for the 2016 Libertarian Party presidential nomination. http://docquery.fec.gov/pdf/196/201604309015367196/201604309015367196.pdf He has a campaign website, meets the constitutional requirements of the presidency, is a dues-paying member of the LP, and has dropped his bid for the Green Party nomination. Therefore, he should be listed as a presidential candidate at LP.org. https://www.lp.org/candidates/presidential-candidates-2016

  9. James Welby

    He hasn’t dropped his race for the Green Party nomination. He said he will stop actively campaigning for it until after the LP nomination. His entire strategy is based around combining the Green and Libertarian nominations.

  10. Bondurant

    Bob Barr was just on FBN endorsing Ted Cruz. Not much of a surprise. This guy was the worst decision the LP delegates ever made.

  11. Thane Eichenauer

    Jeff Cottonwood comments “That guy is one dangerous fruitcake.”

    Name calling. Could you name the person you are referring to and one reason why?

  12. Jeff Cottonwood

    Invictus, obviously, and yes, I could name lots of reasons but I don’t really see any need to waste time on it.

  13. steve m

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/24_opt_out_of_a_clinton_trump_race

    “Nearly one-in-four voters say they will stay home or vote third party if Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are the major party presidential candidates.

    A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of Likely U.S. Voters finds Trump and Clinton tied at 38% each. But 16% say they would vote for some other candidate if the presidential election comes down to those two, while six percent (6%) would stay home. Only two percent (2%) are undecided given those options.”

  14. NewFederalist

    As steve m points out above there is a lot riding on getting this right. Please LP get it right! I don’t believe ANY of the current candidates for the nomination are “right”. Such a bad year to screw it up.

  15. langa

    Now I’m getting a Word Press error saying that “You’ve already said that”. But, of course, it didn’t show up when I said it the first time. Jesus Christ, the fucking level of censorship around here is becoming absurd!

  16. Roy Weller

    Are you sure it’s censorship? Sometimes automated spam filters make mistakes. I wouldn’t jump to conclusions without asking first.

  17. langa

    I can’t imagine it’s the famous IPR spam filter. I only used one link, and I used the exact same name and email address that I’ve been using here since 2008.

  18. langa

    Meanwhile, the comment has finally shown up. Thanks to whomever fixed it.

  19. Roy Weller

    Sometimes those filters have glitches for no apparent reason. It’s possible that it could have been censorship, but I would not jump to that conclusion. I don’t see anything about the link that would have caused anyone to censor it. And since it did show up later, along with other comments from you, my guess would be that it was a glitch…although I don’t know.

  20. langa

    I hope you’re right. But with Jim apparently being banned today, after taking a very similar position to mine on the LPNC thread, the timing seemed a little suspicious.

  21. Mark Axinn

    >Bob Barr was just on FBN endorsing Ted Cruz. Not much of a surprise. This guy was the worst decision the LP delegates ever made.

    He must also be the kiss of death with his impeccable timing: Cruz just suspended his campaign!

  22. George Phillies

    With respect to the prior quote, someone from Amash’s home state can tell us whether Amash can change parties at this date, and still run for re-election, or whether he is committed to running as a Republican at this point.

    The actual Cruz people are about as far from being libertarian as you can get, unfortunately, and still be someplace in American politics.

  23. George Phillies

    The Republican conservatives are at the point where they need someone to raise the flag, backed by enough cash, and see who will follow. The folks who ran for President and lost are likely the wrong answer for them, because those folks were already rejected by the voters. In a few states, there are issues with sore loser laws, but a competent conservative movement will put a stand-in on the ballot in those few states. A sitting Senator or Governor not up for re-election might work. On one hand, they might not get on the ballot in every state. On the other hand (Texas) if the candidate is Perry the laws can be fixed.

    However, if the Republican conservatives try to take the time to reach a consensus, they will probably chuck the time they actually do not have at this point.

  24. Thomas L. Knapp

    langa,

    I occasionally experience the same kind of site burp you describe. Usually not here, although it may have happened here. It seems to be an artifact of commenting at exactly the instant the database server locks up or re-starts.

  25. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I was curious as to Wayne Allyn Root was up to today, since I knew he’s a Trump supporter. Here is the comment on his main FB page today:

    “ROOT: My column last July really started it all for Donald J. Trump. It has over 500,000 views…but the same column by me at another site had another half million views…then it was sent dozens of times around world with Bill Bennett’s name on top- Internet hoax. But my words helped convince tens of millions to take serious look at Trump:
    http://personalliberty.com/heres-why-obama-and-hillary-mus…/

    No comment is needed from me–

  26. Bondurant

    Watching CNN election coverage at work. They’re talking about Clinton and Trump as polarizing figures and people voting third party. They will not, however, even say the words “Libertarian Party” or “Green Party”.

  27. NewFederalist

    Now that it is just about set in stone that it is The Donald versus Hillary! I wonder how Trump figures to overcome his negatives? He could start by naming a killer vice presidential choice (I have no idea who that might be) and stating his next three picks for Supreme Court vacancies. If Andrew Napolitano is is first pick I just might vote for him over Johnson or Castle or Stein. I doubt he is likely to do that but it would send a positive message.

  28. Thomas L. Knapp

    On the one hand, if Stone says it there’s usually about 99.9% chance it’s bullshit.

    On the other hand, Napolitano hasn’t been especially hard on Trump, and even admits to having some kind of real estate business relationship with him.

  29. NewFederalist

    I’m with Tom on trusting anything Stone says but if Trump actually does favor Napolitano for USSC it does change my view of him considerably.

  30. Ralph Gordon

    I would not trust anything Trump says any more than Stone. They are birds of a feather.

  31. Andy

    Jill, Andrew Napolitano cast doubts about the official 9/11 story several years ago. You must have missed that.

  32. langa

    Even if Trump promised to nominate Napolitano for SCOTUS, I still wouldn’t vote for him. I would, however, probably “root” for him against Hillary.

  33. Bud Fein

    I’m considering rooting for Hillary against Trump. And I despise Hillary and her whole family, along with her entire political party.

  34. Ralph Gordon

    sparkey: “wut duz he mean guyz
    https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/727693152170196994”

    Freudian Slip: Obviously, he’s running for the 2016 Libertarian presidential nomination.

    Bud Fein: Obviously, it means he will announce his Trump endorsement.

    Ralph Gordon: Obviously, he meant to text his wife that he would be on his way home soon and tweeted by mistake on his smart phone while multitasking.

  35. Ralph Gordon

    Also, the tweet was taken down so there you have it. For anyone who cares it was a one word tweet that said “soon.”

  36. langa

    It wasn’t taken down. Your link has a quote mark at the end. If you remove that, you can see the scintillating “soon” tweet in all its glory.

  37. NewFederalist

    “Even if Trump promised to nominate Napolitano for SCOTUS, I still wouldn’t vote for him. I would, however, probably “root” for him against Hillary.” – langa

    I didn’t say I would vote for him but merely that it would change my view of him. I live in a swing state (PA) so I am definitely keeping all my options open. I am most certainly voting for the Libertarian nominees for US Senate and House of Representatives but I am still studying the statewide commonwealth offices and General Assembly nominees as well as the presidential electors. A lot will depend on the lawsuit and who gets placed on the ballot.

  38. Ralph Gordon

    “It wasn’t taken down. Your link has a quote mark at the end. If you remove that, you can see the scintillating “soon” tweet in all its glory.”

    Be that as may, I still lean heavily toward the “tweeted by mistake when he meant to text his buddy that he would be down at the bar for beers, shots and bullshit soon” type of explanation.

  39. Thomas L. Knapp

    Home Stretch Questions for Gary Johnson #5

    Former Governor of New Mexico Gary Johnson spe...
    Former Governor of New Mexico Gary Johnson speaking at a Campaign for Liberty event at CPAC. (Photo credit: Gage Skidmore via Wikipedia)

    Governor Johnson,

    At OnTheIssues.Org, you are quoted to the following effect on federal spending and federal debt:

    “I have proposed cutting the federal budget by 43 percent to bring it into balance. It can be done. It requires the will and ability to ignore and even fight the special interests that have a vested interest in more and more government spending.” — Washington Times, 02/02/12

    “I’d avoid continually raising the debt ceiling by not incurring more debt!” — 2011 Republican primary debate on Twitter.com, 07/21/11

    “We can quibble over economists’ numbers, but it doesn’t take an economist to know that continuing to add to the national debt is bankrupting us — and that debt has doubled on [Barack Obama’s] watch, aided and abetted by Congress.” — Libertarian Party response to 2016 State of the Union speech, 01/12/16

    How do you square these wonderful policy positions with the facts that:

    • New Mexico’s state government spending grew under your governorship — in fact it grew faster than the rate of inflation, faster than the rate of population growth, and faster than federal spending has grown during the presidency of Barack Obama; and
    • New Mexico’s state debt more than doubled under your governorship, just like the US national debt has doubled during the presidency of Barack Obama?
  40. Root's Teeth Are Awesome

    ROOT: My column last July really started it all for Donald J. Trump. … my words helped convince tens of millions to take serious look at Trump

    Well, sure. Did anyone even know who Trump was before Root wrote his column?

  41. Green W/O/A

    Trump vrs. Clinton? Wow…just wow.

    Even though Trump appeals to LP and CP minded folks, ultimately he is neither a Libertarian nor a Constitutionalist. Gary Johnson matches up well with Trump. Given that there isn’t alot of difference between Trump and Clinton the lesser-evilist argument will have trouble sticking.

    The GP is probably in the best position because Hillary is such a weak candidate. And while the media will try to portray Clinton as the lesser evil, it’s not clear at all that she even is that. I’ll be surprised if Stein does not break 1%, and I think she could do alot better with help from Fortuna.

    It seems quite possible that a 3rd party conservative challenge will emerge and maybe the CP could serve as a vehicle for that.

  42. Cody Quirk

    “It seems quite possible that a 3rd party conservative challenge will emerge and maybe the CP could serve as a vehicle for that.”

    Doubt it; the CP has extremist baggage and are poorly organized/off the ballot in the majority of states, and with the Idaho CP putting Copeland on the ballot over Castle; it’s quite obvious that they will never be a significant force in American politics in the long-run.

  43. NewFederalist

    Cody- Methinks you enjoy bashing the CP just a bit too much. Let it go. They will destroy themselves. Forgive and live well, my friend.

  44. George Phillies

    Matalin Switches to LP

    uk.finance.yahoo.com/video/why-mary-matalin-registering-libertarian-222757387.html

  45. Thomas L. Knapp

    Reject her? No.

    Stick her on the LNC two years from now, nominate her for president in 2020 and watch her tell Wolf Blitzer that Dick Cheney’s vice presidency was the essence of libertarianism because OMG OMG OMG FAMOUS? Not that either.

  46. steve m

    Here I am reading polling reports again…. This time for North Carolina

    1ttd918ylvt17775r1u6ng1adc-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CivitasNCPollApril2016.pdf

    If the election for US Senate were being held today and you had to make a choice, for whom
    would you vote between… (READ IN ORDER, DO NOT ROTATE)
    37% Richard Burr, the Republican,
    35% Deborah K. Ross, the Democrat,
    6% … or Sean Haugh, the Libertarian?
    21% Lean/Undecided

    If the election for Governor were being held today and you had to make a choice, for whom would
    you vote between… (READ IN ORDER, DO NOT ROTATE)
    36% Pat McCrory, the Republican,
    46% Roy Cooper, the Democrat,
    5% …or Lon Cecil, the Libertarian?
    12% Lean/Undecided

  47. Stewart Flood

    The South Carolina Libertarian Party held its nominating convention this afternoon in Columbia. There were 22 voting delegates present. Besides the successful selection of one candidate for the US Senate, two for the House and five for StateHouse seats, a BINDING poll was taken.

    All party members present were permitted to vote, with the results binding the votes of the party chair and vice chair on the first round. The results were as follows:

    12 Johnson
    10 Petersen
    3 Robinson
    1 Feldman

    So Johnson takes two votes at the convention. It is clear from the poll that South Carolina, a state that voted unanimously for Johnson in 2012 (two votes) will be sending a full, but divided delegation to Orlando.

    If the balloting goes to more than one round it is unlikely that Johnson will retain his currently slim margin.

  48. G

    Stewart,
    Thanks for the interesting news. Was there any discussion of how the rest of your delegation is likely to vote?
    Best,
    George

  49. Spin the Tale

    Anyone consider the spin factor in Mary Matlin’s announcement? What’s the point she’s making?

    See … she’s really a Libertarian … and she’s going to vote for Trump, because even though she’s an LP registered voter, voting from Trump is the best decision for America …

    So … if you were thinking of voting for the LP candidate because you didn’t like Trump that would be a mistake, because even L’s like herself are voting for Trump.

    Mary Matlin’s spin is to try to encourage Republican voters who might stray to the LP to follow her as a Libertarian back to Trump, in order to keep voters from moving to the LP candidate and keep them in line for Trump.

  50. Bob Waller

    Is everything a conspiracy theory with you, Spin the Tale? Yeah…maybe it’s some Machiavellian plot of the type you suggest. And maybe she is just someone with cognitive dissonance and divided loyalties, when it comes to conservatives, Republicans, constitutionalists and Libertarians. That so happens to describe a lot of people. Maybe she’s one of them? I am not presuming bad intentions… unless and until evidence is shown.

  51. Stewart Flood

    As I said above, it is quite split. All but one of the delegates were present, so 14 of those votes represent the current intent of the delegates. Robinson will be a delegate, his son is an alternate. I am not sure if the Feldman vote is a delegate.

    I would guess Johnson has about 60% of the votes on the first ballot, and if there is a second certainly less since it is very unlikely I will vote for him on a second round. By unlikely I mean no.

    This was the first time in decades that we had more people actually wanting to go than seats. The binding straw poll was my idea to give the people who could not get seats a feeling that they could have some level of actual representation. The vice chair decided to join in. Neither of us are planning on voting for Johnson on a second round vote.

  52. Thomas L. Knapp

    “Besides the successful selection of one candidate for the US Senate, two for the House and five for StateHouse seats, a BINDING poll was taken.”

    That raises the interesting question of whether the entire South Carolina delegation, or only the two bound delegates, should be denied seating at the convention.

  53. Thomas L. Knapp

    Unit voting violates the convention rules. A delegation’s state party announcing in advance that it intends to violate the convention rules would seem to be grounds for saying “OK, then you don’t get to participate.”

  54. langa

    I didn’t say I would vote for [Trump] but merely that it would change my view of him.

    Actually, NF, you did say you “might” vote for him over Johnson, Castle or Stein. Of course, you can vote for whomever you want. It’s all good.

    As for me, I would love to vote LP, but it all depends on who they nominate. If it’s Governor Milquetoast again, I almost certainly won’t vote at all (or not for President, at least). It’s possible I might vote for Castle, if the CP is on the ballot here in GA.

  55. Nicholas Sarwark

    People deciding they will vote based on a straw poll is not a violation of the bylaw prohibiting the unit rule.

    The South Carolina party telling everyone in the delegation that they have to vote based on the straw poll is a violation of the bylaw prohibiting the unit rule.

  56. NewFederalist

    “As for me, I would love to vote LP, but it all depends on who they nominate… It’s possible I might vote for Castle, if the CP is on the ballot here in GA.” – langa

    I feel the same way about PA.

  57. Stewart Flood

    We are not violating any rules. Knapp obviously did not read past the word binding. No one told me I had to do this. My previous post clearly states that this was my idea, therefore no one was forced into anything.

    Try to keep me off the floor, Knapp, I dare you. I did nothing improper, and neither did my state party.

  58. Thomas L. Knapp

    Stewart,

    I have no intention of trying to keep you off the floor. When have I ever attempted any such thing? I am not even on the credentials committee.

    It just seems like bad practice for a state affiliate to publicly say “fuck the bylaws and convention rules, OUR state won’t be obeying them.” Or for the LNC to have bylaws and convention rules and not enforce them.

  59. Stewart Flood

    You still insist on saying we broke rules when none were broken. Explain how my action (as chair) of taking a straw poll of the delegates to determine my vote is illegal. The vice chair voluntarily chose to do the same, but I have no control or influence over his decision.

    In what way is this a violation of a rule? How would this differ from someone asking other party members for their opinion and then voting that way?

  60. Thomas L. Knapp

    I’m not the one who used “binding” in the way you used it. You are. If it wasn’t really a binding straw poll, why not just say so?

    The unit rule consists of the unit (the state party) “binding” (REQUIRING) delegates to vote according to a unit standard rather than to their own consciences.

    What you are describing NOW is you advertising your personal intention to do a particular thing. It’s not the straw poll that is “binding,” it’s just your personal word. And you are not the unit.

  61. Stewart Flood

    I am not saying anything that is different from my original message. It is in this thread, and it clearly stated the following:


    This was the first time in decades that we had more people actually wanting to go than seats. The binding straw poll was my idea to give the people who could not get seats a feeling that they could have some level of actual representation. The vice chair decided to join in. Neither of us are planning on voting for Johnson on a second round vote.

    I have not changed my description of the events. This was a binding poll, which I clearly explained in the same post as being my idea and affecting my vote.

  62. Thomas L. Knapp

    Stewart,

    OK. Now that you explain it, I understand it differently than I did. Complaint withdrawn. You are right, I was wrong. Have a great day.

  63. Stewart Flood

    How can I have a great day? I woke up this morning to find that I was not dreaming: Clinton and Trump are actually going to be candidates in November.

  64. Thomas L. Knapp

    Stewart,

    Well, SOME people believe that a Clinton v. Trump represents a unique window of opportunity for the LP. I happen to disagree, but if you’re looking to have a great day, why not try to believe that and consider it “the bright side?” 😉

  65. Stewart Flood

    I do not believe it is a unique opportunity. I believe that the sheep will “close ranks” and vote for what they respectively believe to ge the lesser of two evils.

    It does offer us an opportunity with new voters and those who have elected in the past to not vote, however I do not see a Johnson campaign being successful in those areas, or even doing anything beyond focusing on funding their payroll, as they did in 2012. My checkbook is closed, as are those of a number of others I know.

  66. Kareem Caliente

    Someone claimed in a comment that Congressman Kerry Bentivolio is running for the LP VP nomination. The comment was removed but the claim is true. https://mobile.twitter.com/Politics1com/status/729268225993662464

    Your moderators jumped the gun again.

    Here’s what was said:

    “BREAKING! BREAKING! BREAKING!

    Congressperson Kerry Bentivolio enters name in LP VP sweepstakes, becoming the instant favorite to be running mate for LP presidential frontrunner Derrick Michael Reid.”

    Bentivolio is a Santa Clause impersonator and declared bankruptcy last year.

  67. steve m

    http://www.newsandtribune.com/news/gop-clark-county-council-member-to-run-for-coroner-on/article_7c1ad8be-170f-11e6-bdce-4b73f128cdfd.html

    JEFFERSONVILLE — Kelly Khuri, current Republican Clark County Council member, has changed party affiliations and will be running for Clark County Coroner on the Libertarian ticket, according to a news release.

    The announcement came at tonight’s Libertarian meet-and-greet at KingFish in Jeffersonville. Khuri was first elected to the council in 2012 and lost re-election in the seat in last week’s primary election.

  68. steve m

    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_National_51016.pdf

    May 10, 2016

    “Hillary Clinton leads Trump 42-38, with Libertarian Gary Johnson at 4% and
    Green Party candidate Jill Stein at 2%. In a match up just between Clinton and
    Trump, her lead expands to 47-41. That’s because supporters of Johnson and
    Stein would prefer her over Trump 36-18. Although there’s been a lot of talk
    about third party candidates drawing support away from Trump, they’re actually
    taking a little bit more from Clinton at this point. “

  69. George Phillies

    As is often the case, third party voters would prefer the Democrat to the Republican, if they could not vote Libertarian or Green, by a fair amount, though with considerable undecided. Note also that you suppress the G and L vote by removing their candidates — the G and L candidates had 6% support between them — the D and R votes go up ten percentage points. Furthermore, in the full PPP study that Sanders is a much stronger Democratic candidate than Clinton is.

  70. Thomas L. Knapp

    “Hillary Clinton leads Trump 42-38, with Libertarian Gary Johnson at 4%”

    So Johnson is polling a little better than half as well as four years ago? Not bad. If everything goes right for him (including coming back to win the nomination) and wrong for Stein, he might still have a shot at million plus votes and another third place showing. Right now, still looking like the 700k/4th place range, though.

  71. Arnold Spencer

    Anarchists and troofers? Seriously? And someone was wondering why third parties don’t perform better in elections?

  72. Arnold Spencer

    I’m a #NeverTrump Republican. May vote for Libertarians if they present a credible choice. Otherwise – and I never thought I would say this in a billion years – it will be Hillary Clinton for me.

  73. Arnold Spencer

    Then again I never thought I would seriously consider a third party vote either. But I am seriously considering it this year. I wouldn’t have said that even a month ago. I was sure the Republicans would figure out to keep the bombastic little orangutang from becoming our own version of Mussolini, but it turns out they couldn’t. I’m very disappointed in the party that consistently won my vote from 1978 until now. In the past I always thought third parties were a wasted vote and have disliked Hillary Clinton ever since I first heard of her in 1992, but those are the choices I am reduced to this year.

  74. Andy

    I’ve got to wonder if Arnold Spencer is using a fake name and an IP anonymizer. We’ve had a troll problem here at IPR for a long time, and I am suspect of anyone who uses the term “troofer” as a pejorative, which sounds like it was likely concocted by the CIA, just as the CIA was behind the creation of the terms “conspiracy theorist” to be used as a pejorative against people who questioned official government stories.

  75. Jay Wildwood

    It’s a common term. Are you trying to make all conspiracy researchers seem crazy and paranoid?

  76. Andy

    “Jay Wildwood
    May 12, 2016 at 14:19
    It’s a common term. Are you trying to make all conspiracy researchers seem crazy and paranoid?”

    Well Jay Wildwood, if this is your real name, we’ve had a big problem here at IPR with trolls over the last several years, going back to 2009, and possibly even since this site was founded in 2008. So forgive me when I see comments that are very troll like and ask questions about the person who posted them.

  77. Andy

    “Jay Wildwood
    May 12, 2016 at 14:19
    It’s a common term. Are you trying to make all conspiracy researchers seem crazy and paranoid?”

    Yes, a common term created and used by trolls, and picked up by their brainwashed followers.

  78. Jay Wildwood

    Andy for Libertarian Party Chair! “If I don’t personally know you, you can’t join”

  79. Jay Wildwood

    “So forgive me when I see comments that are very troll like”

    How so? You sound quite delusional. Do you hear voices in your head?

  80. Jay Wildwood

    Meanwhile, I am wondering if the Libertarians will present some credible choices this year. There’s a debate on Russia Today about to start in a couple of minutes so I will check that out, and one on May 16 from Las Vegas. In the meantime enjoy Andy working his butt off to keep the Libertarian Party tiny.

  81. langa

    I’m no conspiracy theorist, but I’m pretty sure most (if not all) of the supposed “Never Trump” commenters that have showed up here in the last few days are actually longtime Gary Johnson groupies trying to push their “serious and credible” narrative.

    The reality is, as bad as Gary Johnson is, he’s still too close to being a real libertarian for most of these “lifelong” Republicans to even consider him.

  82. Jay Wildwood

    I can only speak for myself, but I am not a longtime Gary Johnson groupie. I have heard of him before and never seriously considered voting for him until now. He may have a better shot at my vote than he did 4 years ago or than the other people I have heard of running for the Libertarian nomination do, but he is far from assured of my vote even if he does get the nomination. I do disagree with some of his positions, but that’s always been true of the candidates I have ended up voting for. It will be doubly true of Hillary Clinton if I end up voting for her, which, sad to say, is still entirely under consideration right now.

    I am not sure whether it was on this article or not but I did say earlier I have always been moderate-libertarian learning, not as extreme as the Libertarian Party but I always had a lot in common with their positions. The reason I never voted for them before is that they had no chance of winning, and seemed to me to only help the Democrats. And it’s not like the Republican Party or its candidates were anywhere close to perfect, but I always thought they were at least better than the Democrats…until now.

    Perhaps I should listen to the candidates more and the supposed rank and file supporters of the Libertarian Party found here less, as you all seem to uniformly be working to get me to dismiss the idea of voting for or contributing financially to your party. Perhaps that, more even than anything you believe, is why your party has remained so small after so many years. Do you consciously discourage new support, or are you not aware that is what you are doing?

  83. Andy

    “Jay Wildwood
    May 13, 2016 at 07:19
    I can only speak for myself, but I am not a longtime Gary Johnson groupie. I have heard of him before and never seriously considered voting for him until now. ”

    I did a search for a Jay Wildwood in Florida and nothing has come up so far.

    Are you sure that you are not bullshitting us?

  84. Jay Wildwood

    I’m sure it’s none of your business. I came here to discuss ideas, but obviously you need ammunition for ad hominem arguments since those are the only ones you are capable of making…right?

    I’m also sure that everything I have said here is 100% what I believe in. What I’m *not* sure about is who I will vote for and or support come November. So far, you have done nothing but push me away from actively considering the Libertarian option. If you aren’t getting paid by whoever the powers that be are that want to keep your party small, you are passing up on some money that you have rightfully earned and continue to earn. Really, if I was to hire someone to suppress the Libertarian Party vote total, Andy would be my go to guy right now.

  85. Greg Jones

    Peter Suderman in Reason, May 11:

    “Donald Trump is a dangerous, authoritarian know-nothing who appeals to racists and has toyed with the idea of ordering the military to commit war crimes”

    I fully concur.

  86. Bondurant

    On Monday, May 9 the Maricopa County Libertarian Party (Arizona) conducted an informal presidential preference straw poll among attendees of the monthly meeting. The results follow:

    Gary Johnson – 6
    Kevin McCormick – 6
    John McAfee – 5
    Darryl Perry – 3
    Austin Petersen – 1

  87. Bondurant

    For clarification, all known LP candidates were brought up for vote. All others yielded not votes in the straw poll.

  88. HF

    Question for the ballot access experts here….what’s your best estimate for how many states the LP can make this year?

    Are any states completely in the too late category (except for lawsuits)?
    Any that look like a botch in progress?
    Any that need financial help particularly badly?

  89. Andy

    There is a good chance that the Libertarian Party will obtain ballot access in all 50 states plus DC this year, however, there are screw ups that could occur to prevent this from happening, and there are already some screw ups that have occurred, although it is still early enough in the game to salvage them.

    Connecticut, Pennsylvania, and Illinois are all apparently behind schedule, and it has been taking way longer than it should have taken to finish South Dakota (although I heard it might be finally getting close to wrapping up).

    More states and DC are also in play, or will be soon.

    I would suggest donating to the national party, or to a state party that needs ballot access, and if you live in or near a state that needs ballot access, pick up some petitions, clip boards, and pens, and go out and get some signatures.

  90. Jay Wildwood

    Wow Andy….whole different side of you than what I have seen up til now…sane, productive, team player. Hopefully I’ll be seeing more of this side of you and less of the other. You ARE the same Andy, right?

  91. Andy

    I did not have time to elaborate on some of the screw ups, like the abortion in Maine, which there is time to salvage to at least have ballot access for our presidential ticket, but which would not be necessary if not for the LP registration not being properly executed.

    My goal is and always has been the advancement of the Libertarian Party and movement ever since I got involved back in 1996.

  92. Jeremy Siple

    Jay, Andy is a wonderful, dedicated activist. He just sometimes, in my opinion, tends to overemphasize the negatives. He wants to see the LP succeed, as do I.

  93. Andy

    “Jeremy Siple
    May 13, 2016 at 22:42
    Jay, Andy is a wonderful, dedicated activist. He just sometimes, in my opinion, tends to overemphasize the negatives. He wants to see the LP succeed, as do I.”

    I don’t believe I’ve ever met Jeremy Siple, but thanks for the words of support.

  94. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Isn’t Connecticut still at risk of not having ballot access? I read something yesterday that there are still 4 problem states.

  95. wolfefan

    Hi Nick –

    Very nice website! Just an FYI – there is a typo in the last line of the first full paragraph under “Stick with Nick” – the word “trough” is probably meant to be “through.”

    Best wishes…

  96. Jeremy Siple

    Andy, you and I haven’t met in person, but I’ve been on IPR for a long time, just previously under a pen name.

  97. Andy

    I urged the LP of Connecticut and Pennsylvania to get their petitions out back in February. Nobody listened to me, now both states are behind.

    The deadline in Pennsylvania is not until August 1st, and i am pretty sure that the Connecticut deadline is around August 7th. Still lots of time, but there are several other states and DC that have yet to start, and lagging behind in some states can slow down progress in others.

  98. Andy

    The party is actually in probably the best position it has been in to get ballot access in all 50 states plus DC, which has not been achieved since either 2000 or 1996 depending on the criteria you want to use (in 2000 the LP of Arizona put a different presidential candidate on the ballot than the rest of the country due to a faction fight in their state party). The only other years that the LP has had ballot access in all 50 states plus DC were 1980 and 1992.

    The LP is in a good position to get all 50 states plus DC this time, but there are a lots of things that could go wrong between now and the deadlines to derail this.

    Hopefully, we will make it, but it is going to take a lot of work and not a lot of errors between now and the deadlines.

  99. Jeremy Siple

    I believe there is a good chance we won’t have to petition at all in Pennsylvania this year, due to the fact that the process has already been declared unconstitutional. We shall see.

    That’s no excuse for us lagging behind of course, relying on courts to save our asses is a losing proposition.

  100. Kareem Caliente

    Isn’t the Oregon Libertarian Party planning to nominate whoever wins its primary?

  101. langa

    Perhaps I should listen to the candidates more and the supposed rank and file supporters of the Libertarian Party found here less, as you all seem to uniformly be working to get me to dismiss the idea of voting for or contributing financially to your party. Perhaps that, more even than anything you believe, is why your party has remained so small after so many years. Do you consciously discourage new support, or are you not aware that is what you are doing?

    Jay, I’m not trying to run you out of the party, but at the same time, I’m not going to bend over backwards and agree with everything you say, just to get you to stay, especially since you’ve made it clear that you aren’t really interested in promoting the libertarian philosophy and are just here because your preferred party has nominated someone you can’t stomach.

    The whole reason I (and a lot of other LP members) got involve with the LP in the first place is to help spread the libertarian message to as many people as possible. If you would like to help with that, great — welcome aboard. On the other hand, if you’re just hear to disparage the party, maybe lodge a one-time protest vote, and then head back to the GOP in 2020, that’s not really worth much to me.

    It’s your choice.

  102. Darcy G Richardson

    “Hillary Clinton leads Trump 42-38, with Libertarian Gary Johnson at 4%” — Thomas L. Knapp

    It’s kind of curious how Gary Johnson and his supporters couldn’t stop talking about the 11 percent of the vote the former governor received in an earlier Public Policy Polling survey — a poll in which any generic candidate probably would have received similar numbers — yet have had virtually nothing to say about their candidate’s recent 4 percent showing by the same polling firm.

    Their dream candidate is plummeting like the rock he is…

    Nominating an ex-governor — or any “successful” politician, for that matter — would be the biggest mistake the Libertarian Party ever made.

    Anybody advocating the nomination of a former governor, particularly one as obviously detached and poorly-informed as Gary Johnson — a guy seemingly more interested in talking about his various mountain climbing adventures and other physical exploits than the substantive issues facing the country (not that he even grasps what those issues are) — clearly doesn’t understand the mood of the electorate.

    Most Americans are struggling financially and don’t want to hear about “me, my and mine,” especially from a guy with the financial means to gallivant across the globe in search of mountains to climb.

    That should be obvious to everybody.

    More to the point, it’s not like the country is clamoring for an awkwardly nervous political lightweight to take on Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

    And they’re definitely not looking for someone who helped elect the swaggering idiot George W. Bush — Johnson’s intellectual identical twin — thereby paving the way for what was arguably the most nefarious and deceitful administration in American history.

    Displaying the intractable spirit at the heart of the party’s philosophy, the LP should do something bold and daring in Orlando later this month by nominating an outsider — and a colorful one, at that. Someone who exudes confidence and is comfortable in his or her own skin.

    Hell, the party could even do something really radical and nominate a libertarian!

  103. Jay Wildwood

    I’ve been reading up on the Libertarian candidates. Although young and not yet boosting as impressive a resume as an ex-Governor or the founder of a large software company, Austin Petersen seems by far the most impressive in his issue stances and presentation. He seems like a candidate I would be happy to support and inform my friends about if he receives your nomination.

  104. Jay Wildwood

    langa,

    I’m not presuming that I will be back in the GOP by 2020. That party may be permanently damaged by the Trump nomination. By 2020 there may be little but Dixiecrats and white supremacist “Men’s Rights Activists” left in the Republican fold. Truth be told I have always been libertarian leaning, albeit never extreme enough for the Libertarian Party and whatever my differences with the Republicans I always felt it was more important to beat the Democrats and their plans to gradually nationalize the economy. At this point I’m not sure the Republicans will even be the lesser evil any longer. If the Republican Party is to stand for trade wars and mass deportations that will cripple the economy, among other absurdities, why would I go back to them?

  105. HF

    Andy, thanks for the response. I have been contributing to states that ask directly but wasn’t sure how well that correlated with actual need and feasability. From what you say it sounds like all states are still in play, which is great news.

  106. Andy

    No, the LP already had ballot access in 30 states, probably a few more (no time to look it up or count them now). So the only states to donate to for ballot access are the states that have yet to qualify.

  107. Darcy G. Richardson

    “11% was Monmouth, the 4% is from the first PPP poll to include him.” — Nicholas Sarwark

    Thank you for the correction, Nick. It’s interesting that the most recent Public Policy Polling survey was the first time they included Gary Johnson’s name in the current election cycle.

    During the 2012 cycle, PPP included Johnson in several early polls, including one in late December of 2011, which showed the former governor polling at nine percent nationally. Another, released on March 22, 2012 — some six weeks before the LP’s national convention in Las Vegas — had Johnson polling at seven percent nationally against Obama and Romney.

    Given the extremely high negatives of the presumptive major-party nominees this year, it ought to be a little worrisome to LP activists that Johnson is barely polling at half the strength he demonstrated at this stage in the campaign four years ago — a year when he ended up garnering only one percent of the vote nationally.

  108. Greg Jones

    It seems to be mainly a function of whether the Green Party or any other third party option is also included in the same poll.

  109. Bondurant

    “And they’re definitely not looking for someone who helped elect the swaggering idiot George W. Bush — Johnson’s intellectual identical twin — thereby paving the way for what was arguably the most nefarious and deceitful administration in American history. ”

    Really? No fan of Bush II but I find this comment to be a stretch (in particular weighed against Wilson, FDR, LBJ, Nixon and his successor occupying the White House now). Johnson is far from perfect and I would not support him if able to make it to Orlando but equating him with Bush II is hyperbole.

  110. Thane Eichenauer

    I believe that comments on posts should focus on the post itself I want to mention that Augustus Invictus has spoken about past news coverage and his efforts to address them.

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/augustus-invictus/open-letter-to-the-executive-committee-of-the-libertarian-party-of-florida/279303362402766

    Several parties have brought up Augustus Invictus on this thread:

    http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2016/05/paul-stanton-announces-campaign-for-florida-u-s-senate-seat/

    I want Paul Stanton news to focus on him and not focus on non-Paul Stanton news when possible.

    I hope that all Libertarian Party candidates for US Senate from Florida get fair and full coverage.

  111. Thomas L. Knapp

    Some people to think that Republican endorsements rolling in for Johnson or Petersen constitute recommendations worth considering.

    I’m trying to remember the last time Republicans had the best interests of the Libertarian Party in mind, and my recollection is that that time was: Never.

  112. Gene Berkman

    So, Tom, I guess it would be better to run Libertarian candidates who do not get any support from outside The Libertarian Party?

    I guess that would explain your support for Darryl Perry. I doubt that even Mr Perry’s favored candidate Michael Peroutka will return the favor and vote for Darryl. It is of course too late for Mr Perry to get support from Lester Maddox or George Wallace, other candidates he has backed.

    Seriously, any alternative party candidate has to get support from outside his own party to make any kind of impact.

  113. Andy

    Redsilverj is still calling this election a fix between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, with Trump taking a dive for Clinton.

    Is Redsilverj right or wrong? Time will tell.

    Donald Trump GAME OVER Shocking Discovery EXPOSED For All To See (Redsilverj)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaYf0zDGrrc

  114. Andy

    Bondurant, Arizona had a statewide ballot initiative via petition process. Why not take advantage of that and bypass the legislature by placing jury nullification on the Arizona ballot?

    You could let people know that they have the right to nullify the law even if the initiative does not pass, as the initiative is just to require the courts to inform jurors that they have the right to nullify laws.

  115. langa

    I wasn’t sure where to put this, but since it’s more of a general observation about the site, rather than any particular thread, I guess this is as good a place as any:

    For quite some time now, we have had Gary’s Groupies endlessly lecturing us (here on IPR and elsewhere) about how we need a “serious” and “credible” candidate (like GJ) in order to draw in the “#Never Trump” crowd and other outsiders who would be repelled by the “extremism” of a Darryl Perry or the “eccentricity” of a John McAfee.

    Well, lately we have had some of these “outsiders” (Greg Jones, Jay Wildwood, etc.) show up here on IPR, and they haven’t been shy about expressing their opinions. Not only do they crave “serious” candidates (such as milquetoast moderates like Johnson and conservative “fusionists” like Petersen), but they also apparently see little to no difference between anarchists and child molesters (or even Nazis).

    So, my question is: Assuming that Johnson really can “draw in” these sorts of people to the LP in large numbers, is that a feature of his candidacy — or a bug?

  116. Andy

    langa, I would not be surprised if all of the posters in question are trolls.

  117. Jay Wildwood

    Andy, I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re a troll.

    Langa, I would say that it would be a bug. Clearly, your party is designed to only draw in the libertarian elite 1% of the 1%. The standards for coming in need to be much, much tougher. Take it from me, a Libertarian Party that could attract former Republicans like Gary Johnson, Kerry Bentivolio and William Weld is entirely too heterodox. Only certified basement dwellers with a 49th level badge should be considered for membership.

  118. Andy

    “Jay Wildwood
    May 17, 2016 at 20:34
    Andy, I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re a troll.”

    I plan to be in Orlando at the national convention. Will you be there? Perhaps we can talk in person about who the troll is.

  119. Jay Wildwood

    See Andy, you are trolling for sure. I won’t be there as I have long standing plans for Memorial Day weekend, and I am not a party member or delegate, so why would I go hang out at some tourist spot even if I was not busy? Since I already told you I won’t be there earlier clearly you are trolling. But then I don’t plan to be at the Republican or Democratic conventions either. Maybe you could tour all the national conventions and grab delegates by the lapels to discuss who is or is not a troll.

  120. Andy

    “Jay Wildwood
    May 17, 2016 at 23:09
    See Andy, you are trolling for sure. I won’t be there as I have long standing plans for Memorial Day weekend, and I am not a party member or delegate, so why would I go hang out at some tourist spot even if I was not busy? Since I already told you I won’t be there earlier clearly you are trolling. But then I don’t plan to be at the Republican or Democratic conventions either. Maybe you could tour all the national conventions and grab delegates by the lapels to discuss who is or is not a troll.”

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Why am I not surprised here?

    Then how about this, go to any Libertarian Party meeting anywhere in the country, and have yourself video recorded at the meeting and post it on YouTube.

    Lots of people who post here know that I’m for real, because they have met me or seen me at various LP events over the years.

    I suspect that you are bullshitting us. I bet that “Jay Wildwood” is a fake name (I did a people search online and nothing came up). I don’t think that you are really interested in the Libertarian Party. I think that you are just here to stir up trouble. It would not surprise me at all if you are a government paid internet troll, quite possibly one who has posted here before under various fake names.

    Tell me which Libertarian meeting you are going to attend (it could be a monthly supper club, a libertarian student group, or whatever), and I will call whoever the local chair is of that meeting to see if you show up, and to ask them to take a video of the meeting with you there.

    If possible, I will even travel to the meeting and meet you there myself and video record the meeting and post it to YouTube and here at IPR.

    It is time for you to put up or shut up.

  121. langa

    Langa, I would say that it would be a bug. Clearly, your party is designed to only draw in the libertarian elite 1% of the 1%. The standards for coming in need to be much, much tougher. Take it from me, a Libertarian Party that could attract former Republicans like Gary Johnson, Kerry Bentivolio and William Weld is entirely too heterodox. Only certified basement dwellers with a 49th level badge should be considered for membership.

    I would think that you, being a (former?) Republican, would be well aware of the danger of being so desperate for a few extra votes that you will welcome anyone into your party, regardless of whether they agree with the party’s ideology/platform. Isn’t that why you claim to have left the GOP? Because Trump isn’t a “real” conservative — he’s just a RINO? Why would we in the LP want to embrace “LINOs” like you?

    Abandoning our ideology and our principles for a few thousand extra members or an extra 1-2 percent of the vote would be the epitome of a Pyrrhic victory.

  122. William Saturn

    Interesting article to consider:

    http://www.wnd.com/2016/05/next-u-s-president-to-be-decided-in-bathroom/

    Specifically:

    [Limbaugh] cited the work of Johns Hopkins psychiatrist Paul McHugh, who “said that transgenderism is a ‘mental disorder’ that merits treatment, that sex change is ‘biologically impossible,’ and that people who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder.”

    He noted McHugh is author of six books and “at least 125 peer-reviewed medical articles.”

    “[McHugh] also reported on a new study showing that the suicide rate among transgendered people who had reassignment surgery is 20 times higher than the suicide rate among non-transgender people. Dr. McHugh further noted studies from Vanderbilt University and London’s Portman Clinic of children who had expressed transgender feelings but for whom, over time, 70 percent to 80 percent spontaneously lost those feelings,” Limbaugh said.

    “Aha. We may be on to something here. Dr. McHugh and his boys have studied all this, and young kids, 70 to 80 percent of them, eventually grow out of this confusion. May that’s what they don’t want to happen is for kids to outgrow it.”

  123. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    I got this message from Mary Ruwart today. Please take a few seconds to help her out:

    “Thanks SO much for voting to get “Healing Our World” the Readers’ Choice Award. We were tied for 1st place, but the front runner has pulled ahead by two dozen votes as of last night.

    We just have until Friday to make “Healing” #1 and get its cover with “The Compassion of Libertarianism” in front of voters just before the election. Foreword Reviews will be spreading the word about the winner of this contest to book stores, readers, and librarians this summer.

    Do you know someone else who would want to vote for “Healing”? If so, could you contact them and let them know about this great opportunity to remind voters that there is another choice for them? I know everyone is busy and I hate to another favor of you, but I feel this is too good of an opportunity to let it slip through our fingers for lack of a few votes.

    Tell your friends to go to https://indiefab.forewordreviews.com/books/healing-our-world-the-compassion-of-libertarianism/, scroll down to the comments section at the bottom of the page, and paste #INDIEFABFAV into a comment. If they aren’t signed into Facebook, the page will ask for their login credentials.

    I want to thank you once again for your support! “Healing” is a break-even project for me; it’s the enthusiasm of people like yourself that have motivated me to keep it in print. With your help, we can bring “Healing” to the body politic in a whole new way!”

    https://indiefab.forewordreviews.com/books/healing-our-world-the-compassion-of-libertarianism/

  124. Jay Wildwood

    Andy,

    You seem to believe that I need to prove myself to you, and/or to the Libertarian Party. I do not. Rather, the Libertarian Party needs to prove itself to me if it wants my support, which seems to be a big if, even though I want incremental change in a libertarian direction across a broad spectrum of issues. At this point, I haven’t been very favorably impressed at what I have seen here so far and I’m not considering any involvement beyond voting for Libertarians, and not necessarily all of them, in the short term. I will consider who to vote for on a case by case basis.

    Just because I decided that I’m no longer sure that the Republicans are even a lesser evil than Democrats doesn’t mean that I suddenly want to become a Libertarian Party member and go to party meetings. I may or may not go to one of your party meeting at some point if it is convenient to me, and if I do, I feel no need to inform you of my plans. As far as I can tell from the way you behave online, you are a very unpleasant person and I have zero interest in meeting you in person. If you want to change that impression, start behaving differently. Perhaps you should first decide whether you want to welcome new people who don’t agree with you on how far or how fast to change things or drive us away, and act accordingly.

    As I already told you, who I am is absolutely none of your business. I’m here to discuss ideas, not personalities. I also have no idea why you think my opinions “stir up trouble” or that the government would need to pay me for them. I would rather think the government would want to pay someone like you to help keep your party small and extreme, with appeals to disreputable fringe elements like 9/11 troofers, anarchists and racists, and your gatekeeping activities against new people from the mainstream side who are libertarian leaning but not fully libertarian, or at least not as extremely libertarian as you.

    From what I have read about government infiltration of radical groups across the political spectrum, they tend to work to further radicalize and marginalize groups that are already somewhat radical and marginal and to keep them as far away from the mainstream as possible so they don’t start to gain broad appeal for their ideas to the general public. Supposing we take it for granted that the government agencies which you believe are infiltrating you want to keep the Libertarian Party from becoming larger and more effective, it would seem that they would follow the same pattern that they usually follow when infiltrating groups on the extreme left and extreme right, which is to drive you further away from the mainstream. You seem to be doing that job for them quite nicely with your comments here and your “Libertarians for 911 Truth,” but for now I’ll continue to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are doing the job for them without their pay or direct instructions.

    As Mr. Knapp pointed out on another discussion, government infiltrators also help stir up external paranoia against outsiders when they infiltrate a group, as well as internal paranoia and distrust by frequently bringing up the subject of government infiltration, making group members distrustful of each other and of potential new recruits and disrupting their group cohesion. Sowing suspicion and making people doubt each other as well as anyone new who shows up as suspected plants is a time tested method used by government disrupters. As it so happens, you excel at this task, but again we’ll assume for the moment that you are freelancing.

  125. Jay Wildwood

    langa,

    “I would think that you, being a (former?) Republican, would be well aware of the danger of being so desperate for a few extra votes that you will welcome anyone into your party, regardless of whether they agree with the party’s ideology/platform. Isn’t that why you claim to have left the GOP? Because Trump isn’t a “real” conservative — he’s just a RINO? Why would we in the LP want to embrace “LINOs” like you?”

    It depends on how flexible you want to be. When I considered myself a Republican or more accurately strongly Republican-leaning independent, it never would have occurred to me to drum people out just for disagreeing on one or two issues. Besides I was a “RINO” if even that myself, since I always leaned libertarian or “liberal” on social issues and foreign policy. I just thought that the Libertarian Party wanted to take things too far and too fast and represented a wasted vote that in practice did nothing except help the Democrats, who were even worse than the Republicans from my perspective, at least until now.

    On the other hand, it’s possible to be so flexible as to lose any semblance of having anything in common at all. Mr. Trump is not a fiscal conservative, and shows every indication that what little lip service he paid to some select fiscally conservative policies while running for the Republican nomination would be thrown overboard after he secures it. Likewise, I don’t trust what noises he makes in a non-interventionist direction regarding foreign policy, which he contradicts in the next breath with unbridled bellicosity to other nations, ethnicities and religions. He is off the charts authoritarian on many civil liberties issues. What exactly do I have in common with him or his supporters? Their main issue thrust seems to be economically ignorant views of immigration and trade that would wreck the US and world economy if implemented, and would be likely to lead from trade wars to real wars as hostilities escalate.

    As I told you earlier, I’ve disliked Mrs. Clinton tremendously for a quarter century, yet I don’t see Mr. Trump as even being a lesser evil than she is, let alone good. And as I am looking at the Libertarian Party, it appears from my perspective to be too extreme and too unwelcoming, so while I may very well vote for some Libertarians, including the Presidential ticket, I am not interested in calling myself a big L Libertarian, becoming a club member, going to club meetings, donating money or time, etc. At this time I am more of a moderate Libertarian-leaning independent.

    “Abandoning our ideology and our principles for a few thousand extra members or an extra 1-2 percent of the vote would be the epitome of a Pyrrhic victory.”

    At some point, I agree this becomes true. I don’t think the Libertarians are anywhere close to that point, and tend instead to have the opposite problem, where abandoning any hope of being considered seriously by anything more than 1 or 2 percent for voting purposes, and 1 or 2 percent of that for any further involvement beyond that, is your pyrrhic victory in your endless fight to maintain absolute ideological purity.

    That leaves a lot of people like myself who are too libertarian for the Trumped Party and too moderate for the Libertarian Party. But then, what’s wrong with being an Independent?

  126. Jay Wildwood

    ‘”William Saturn
    May 18, 2016 at 01:37
    Interesting article to consider:”

    I don’t see anything interesting to consider there. It’s the same sort of socially authoritarian drivel whipping up ridiculous and unfounded hysteria that is driving me further and further away from the Republican Party, even as the Libertarians here tell me that I’m not welcome because I am not extreme enough for them and possibly a suspected plant.

    Even though transgender people have been using the bathrooms of the gender they identify with for many years, the morally bankrupt social conservatives whip up irrational fear of a nonexistent crime wave by trans individuals in public restrooms because it’s the only thing that will excite voters to come out for them, along with hatred and fear of Muslims and Latino immigrants. Meanwhile real problems like the mounting national debt, ballooning entitlement spending and endless wars abroad are being ignored by Democrats and Republicans alike, and Libertarians want to debate how many angels dance on the head of a pin and whether any newcomers who wander into their treehouse are sincere enough or worthy.

    The quack’s nonsense about converting transgender people is in no way different than the countless quacks who touted their supposed ability to convert or “cure” gay people to being straight for many years, and in some cases still do. Most psychologists and lay observers alike no longer give any credence to “gay conversion therapy,” and “transgender cures” will be no different. Shame on you and anyone else who promotes this garbage, and especially on those who use it to whip up fear and hate that ends up hurting and killing real people for short term political gain.

    Here’s a more interesting article for you to consider:

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/sexual-assault-domestic-violence-organizations-debunk-bathroom-predator/story?id=38604019

    ““Over 200 municipalities and 18 states have nondiscrimination laws protecting transgender people’s access to facilities consistent with the gender they live every day,” according to the coalition. “None of those jurisdictions have [sic] seen a rise in sexual violence or other public safety issues due to nondiscrimination laws. Assaulting another person in a restroom or changing room remains against the law in every single state.”

    And:

    “The lawmakers’ justification does not take into account that men can also be victims of sexual assault and harassment in public bathrooms and changing rooms. Transgender men who have had to use female restrooms due to such laws “experience a ton of violence in women’s restroom and are told they don’t belong there,” Strangio said. “It usually leads to people not using the bathroom.”

    Palumbo said she believes people “must understand the facts about sexual assault,” adding that in 8 out of 10 cases the victim already knows the person who sexually assaulted them, citing Justice Department statistics. However, 64 percent of transgender people will experience sexual assault in their lifetime, she said, citing a study by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and National Center for Transgender Equality.

    “All the data and all the evidence shows protecting transgender people only increase public safety,” Strangio said.”

  127. Brad

    Jay:

    “The quack’s nonsense about converting transgender people is in no way different than the countless quacks who touted their supposed ability to convert or “cure” gay people to being straight for many years, and in some cases still do. Most psychologists and lay observers alike no longer give any credence to “gay conversion therapy,” and “transgender cures” will be no different.”

    Come to Texas. This type of nonsense is prevalent & is written into party platforms. I haven’t been able to stomach the Texas Republican Party for several years now.

  128. Cody Quirk

    “but they won’t be relevant if Gary Johnson fails to be nominated.”

    Unless the purist and/or the Petersen crowds show up in force in Orlando, Gary is going to win it.

  129. natural born American

    http://www.c-span.org/video/?408952-1/george-wallace-campaign-film

    George Wallace Campaign Film — This film chronicles former Governor George Wallace’s (D-AL) push to get on the California ballot for the 1968 presidential election.?He chose to run for president under the banner of the newly formed American Independent Party.?Eventually, Governor Wallace succeeded in getting on the ballot in all 50 states.?He came in third in the general election, receiving 13.5 percent of the vote and winning five states.?Courtesy of the Alabama Department of Archives and History.

  130. NewFederalist

    What a HUGE shame! The LP appears to be just about snatching tremendous defeat from the jaws of just an average defeat! Who needs a libertarian party anyway? Get real delegates! This is NOT about winning the election! That is NOT going to happen. Nominate a third string Republican ticket and see what you get! The Libertarian Party will become an historical remnant much like the Prohibition Party. Do better!

  131. Darcy G Richardson

    “Nominate a third string Republican ticket and see what you get!” — New Federalist

    That about sums it up. Great observation, NF.

    In the Prohibition Party’s defense, at least they aimed pretty high when they attempted to run a Republican for the presidency, most notably in 1932, at the height of the Great Depression — a period when the repeal movement was gaining considerable strength and the end of national prohibition was looming on the immediate horizon.

    That year, dry leaders astutely tried to draft the legendary William E. Borah, the dean of the Senate and chairman of the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee, as the party’s presidential candidate.

    Party chairman D. Leigh Colvin, who worked tirelessly to recruit Borah that spring and summer, believed the longtime Idaho lawmaker would poll at least 10 million votes against the increasingly unpopular and beleaguered Herbert Hoover — the guy who originally coined the phrase “noble experiment” — and Democratic challenger Franklin D. Roosevelt. Of course, Borah, who was nominated by acclamation at the party’s national convention in Indianapolis, later refused to accept the party’s nomination.

    With Borah out of the picture, party leaders then made a last-minute pitch to Pennsylvania Gov. Gifford Pinchot to accept their nomination. Like Borah, the Prohibitionists believed the aging Bull Moose veteran could keep America dry, but he also declined.

    Unlike Johnson and Weld, whose libertarianism is sketchy at best, at least Borah and Pinchot had impeccably solid dry credentials — and both were widely-respected current officeholders with considerable national followings. Unlike “Gary Who?” and his running mate, they weren’t viewed as a couple of washed up politicians looking for a second act in American politics.

  132. langa

    Here’s a good article on the 3 “leading” candidates for the LP Presidential nomination: http://www.thelibertyconservative.com/fight-libertarian-nomination-explained/

    Unfortunately, the article ignores Perry, but it still does a nice job of capturing the basic issue at stake:

    The Libertarian Party will never succeed by trying to defeat the two main parties playing traditional politics, and John McAfee’s campaign seems to be the only one who understands this. All one has to do is compare the campaign videos of Gary Johnson and John McAfee to see the difference inherently different views of how to advance liberty in politics.

    At the Libertarian Party convention this weekend, the LP has the potential to introduce a wildcard into one of the most unpredictable election seasons in recent memory.

    Will Libertarians embrace it? Or will they simply maintain their inept status quo?

  133. Darcy G Richardson

    Thanks for sharing that article, langa. The Libertarian Party is quickly becoming almost unrecognizable.

    It’s hard to believe that the party may again nominate Gary Johnson, a guy who actively campaigned for George W. Bush in 2000 and whose vice-presidential running mate, William Weld, was one of 241 “Major-League Pioneers” who raised at least $100,000 for Dubya’s presidential campaign that year.

    The late Harry Browne, who fought the good fight for the second and final time that year, must be turning in his grave.

  134. Darcy G Richardson

    “The hypocrisy of both conservatives and liberals is an important reason that we shouldn’t call ourselves ‘fiscally conservative and socially liberal.’ We should never define ourselves in terms of other ideologies — as though we were borrowing from them. Conservative politicians are as fiscally imprudent as liberals, and liberal politicians are as contemptuous of social rights as conservatives. To imply that we are like them in any way puts us in the same class as people like William Weld, Bill Bradley, and Christine Whitman — politicians who talk a good game but who, in practice, are neither fiscally sound nor socially tolerant. In the realm of either economics or personal behavior, they will vote enthusiastically to increase government.”

    Harry Browne, April 3, 1998

  135. langa

    It’s hard to believe that the party may again nominate Gary Johnson, a guy who actively campaigned for George W. Bush in 2000 and whose vice-presidential running mate, William Weld, was one of 241 “Major-League Pioneers” who raised at least $100,000 for Dubya’s presidential campaign that year.

    Darcy, the really sad thing about it is that they have tried the same thing twice in a row, and yet, they keep insisting it will be “different” this time. It’s like a pitcher continuing to throw the same pitch that the last two batters hit out of the park. And, no matter what, you can bet they’ll be back with the same tired song and dance in 2020.

    By the way, great find on the Harry Browne quote about Weld. He’s still very well respected by a lot of Libertarians, so maybe he can posthumously talk some sense into them.

  136. Darcy G Richardson

    I love the baseball analogy, langa.

    In Johnson’s case, it’s probably more like the mystery of Steve Blass, the great Pittsburgh Pirates ace who at the pinnacle of his once-promising career — he was nearly awarded the 1971 World Series MVP, and put up even more impressive numbers the following year — could no longer find the plate beginning with the ’73 season.

    As his recent choice of a vice-presidential running mate clearly demonstrates, Johnson — once highly-touted by Libertarians across the country — has repeatedly and clumsily struggled to find the Libertarian strike zone, something most previous LP presidential nominees, especially Harry Browne, could have done while blindfolded.

    Johnson keeps throwing wild pitches, some that sail all the way to the backstop.

    If he’s on the mound this fall, particularly if he gets into the nationally-televised debates, the former governor of New Mexico could prove to be a huge embarrassment to the LP.

  137. langa

    If he’s on the mound this fall, particularly if he gets into the nationally-televised debates, the former governor of New Mexico could prove to be a huge embarrassment to the LP.

    And, unfortunately, by that point it will be too late to go to the bullpen.

  138. Be Rational

    Dr. Marc Allen Feldman,

    I watched your entire video above. … You should run for the US House or Senate.

    good luck

  139. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    From Adam Kokesh on Facebook:

    “From my experience in the military, I learned that we were only fighting for profiteers. We shouldn’t be thanked. If the troops defended freedom, they’d attack the government.”

  140. langa

    Thanks for those links, Jill. Maybe if enough of us keep at it, we can get people to reconsider this military hero worship that seems to have infected the country (and even parts of the LP).

  141. Thomas L. Knapp

    Fuckin’ A.

    It’s bad enough when some regular person wants to “thank me for my service.” When a LIBERTARIAN says it, I just cringe. I already GOT thanked, with a paycheck drawn on stolen money for doing the job of helping the state commit mass murder. I should be begging for leniency, not collecting compliments.

  142. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt Post author
    May 31, 2016 at 11:02
    From Adam Kokesh on Facebook:

    ‘From my experience in the military, I learned that we were only fighting for profiteers. We shouldn’t be thanked. If the troops defended freedom, they’d attack the government.'”

    Adam Kokesh hit the nail on the head.

    It was a pleasure finally getting to meet Adam Kokesh at the LP National Convention this weekend. Adam is a great guy and I look forward to his 2020 run for President.

  143. Gene Berkman

    Darcy, glad you like Harry Browne! I met him, voted for him both times. I sell books he wrote and I have an autographed copy of “Why Government Doesn’t Work” that he sent me (unsolicited) before he started his 1996 campaign.

    So Darcy, did you vote for Harry Browne in 1996 or 2000? Enquiring minds want to know.

  144. Darcy G Richardson

    Yes. I voted for Harry Browne in 1996. I also made a modest financial contribution to his campaign and another to the LNC that year. In 2000, I made the maximum individual contribution to Ralph Nader.

  145. Darcy G Richardson

    I should add, however, that Harry Browne’s ’96 campaign was the only time I voted for a Libertarian nominee for President in the general election, although I have contributed to several Libertarian candidates for various offices over the years, including a few — Steve Kubby and George Phillies in 2008 and, more recently, Darryl Perry — who have unsuccessfully sought the party’s presidential nomination.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *