Open Thread for March 2017

It appears that a new month has already started. Well, you all know what to do: this is your space to post anything you wish to share with your fellow IPR Readers. Hopefully, it will have something to do with our main topic of third-party and independent politics, but we won’t hold you to that. Please make sure you don’t post anything that someone else wrote without giving credit.

And here’s my video choice for today (always, actually):

186 thoughts on “Open Thread for March 2017

  1. paulie

    Phillies from February:

    The above debate shows how this web site is becoming close to wrothless. I hope the owners will impose needed reform.

    Please write Redlich with exactly what you propose and copy me. I will make sure the discussion makes it to the full IPR editors email list. Contact info at About IPR up top if you don’t already have it. We need to hear from our readers and commenters. We did have a serious discussion about this, maybe a few weeks or a month or two ago, but despite many opinions to the contrary the final decision appears to have been to do nothing, at least so far. But, that could change, depending on what input we receive going forward.

  2. paulie

    Jill: your article did not have an above the fold image so I added the one from last month.

    One interpretation of the image is a T inside an O, for open thread. However, I recognize that it’s also an image that is being used in a variety of places to (in my opinion, correctly) link T for Trump with the flag of nazi Germany. By way of comparison, I used the following double entendre symbol for the open threads during the Obama era:

    This second image uses the Obama “O” as in “open,” and combines it with the infamous goatse symbol (warning: if you don’t already know what that is, looking it up is likely to be NSFW and/or stomach-churning, depending on your tastes). It was a bit of dark humor about the “openness” of our open threads, as well as the ‘opin for change that formed the basis of our then-regime. Likewise the Trump T inside an O now represents our open “thread” (perhaps if I could make my own images I would conflate that T with a threaded screw, in part to refer to how screwed we now are).

    In any case, thank you for putting up the OT while I was on greyhound, and if the OT symbol I use is something you don’t want associated with your name, just replace it with a different image.

  3. paulie

    Everyone: now that we have a March thread, please move any replies to comments in past open threads including February as well as any previous months here; you can provide a link back to the prior comment to place it in context.

  4. paulie

    Patrick McKnight to LNC:

    Fellow Committee Members,

    I think we have an excellent Committee this year but we’ve lost our focus a bit after the Election. As frustration with the political status quo continues to increase so does our opportunity to grow the LP. I would like to see us working on ways to use this climate of discontent to take the message of liberty mainstream.

    I ask my colleagues to consider the following two paths forward:

    1) We should establish some goals about what we want to achieve in 2017. Then we should draft a plan of how to achieve them.

    Its purpose is to:
    o Communicate to members our key areas of focus for 2017
    o Provide a baseline against with to measure progress against our plans
    o Use the SMART (Specific, Measureable, Attainable, Realistic, Time Specific) model for defining goals

    In this plan, we should focus on a few important things we need to achieve, and avoid things that fall squarely within the area of responsibility of any committees of staff members.

    For example:
    -Grow LP voter registration 50% in 2017
    -Grow LP membership 50% in 2017
    -Complete LP.org upgrades
    -Increase outreach events targeting young people by 50%

    It seems to me matters like these are our primary responsibility.

    I would personally like to see us work on marketing and adopt a new slogan that is more inclusive and descriptive. However I don’t look forward to more exhaustive ideological debates so I’m not going to push it at this time.

    2) I’m still not sure I understand the utility of passing symbolic resolutions. I’m not sure that’s our job. But if it is let’s at least address the most relevant and timely issues.

    Instead of focusing on Cuba I would prefer to see us focused on providing the intellectual leadership against Trump’s authoritarian agenda and other US-related issues. I presume the “Nation” referenced in the “Libertarian National Committee” is America. Importantly we should not just focus on Trump but cite the bi-partisan history of all these issues.

    I don’t really have a preference where we start but there are a plethora of opportunities available:

    1. Trump’s proposed increase in the “Defense” Budget – Bring the Troops Home NOW
    2. Trump’s xenophobic rhetoric and immigration policies
    3. Crony capitalism in cabinet
    4. Trump’s use of executive orders to circumvent congress
    5. The continuation of the surveillance state – Restore the Bill of Rights NOW
    6. Audit the Fed
    7. Sessions’ anti-marijuana agenda/criminal justice reform
    8. School Choice
    9. Entitlement reform
    10. The national debt

    What are your thoughts?

    Thank you for your consideration,
    Patrick McKnight
    Region 8 Rep
    Chair, NJLP

  5. paulie

    Caryn Ann Harlos responds:

    In the amount of time spent arguing about whether we should adopt resolutions, we could decide AND do other things. I reject the “either or” binary. The drama is what I think is time-wasting, not the issues that are brought to us by our affiliates. Consider, vote and move on. We could, as a national board, be doing a whole lot more, so I am not at all sympathetic to the idea that a resolution is wasting time. I wish we were that productive.

    And there is a marijuana resolution that is squarely on point with Number 7 above. Which should be overwhelmingly passed.

    Out of your list, Number 7 is the area we have had the most gains (marijuana legalization) and we have a huge base of public support, and I do think we should continue to hammer there. My worry is that, like with gay marriage, we will win a victory and stop pushing for the rest of it. We lose our stomach at pushing the envelope. and actually a consistent principled push I believe would resonate very well in this climate. The provacateurs are doing well because the public thinks that they at least have the guts to stand for something strong and bold. We could do that for liberty rather than tinkering around the edges. It is a revolutionary climate and we can and should capitalize on that with our peaceful revolution of bold freedom ideas. People are ready to be inspired. We need to give them something worth laying it on the line for – because that is what we are asking when asking them to take the chance with a third party. But this is the type of time in history when these drastic shifts happen.

    But on the Trump authoritarian agenda, inevitably we will focus on that, and we must, but I doubt we can centrally plan what it will be and we have to grasp the opportunities given to us. Of course we could have some background main goals.

    In short I substantially agree with you while rejecting the idea that we can’t also speak out for oppressed libertarians elsewhere (but that issue will be over and done while we are still dealing with Trump). We need to have a bold offensive against Trump’s offensive goals. Yes. I am not quite so sure we have the grit for it, but we need to get it. And yes, we need to plan – and I think broken down perhaps even more granularly than the year but by quarters.

    But on that front, Nick and the staff have put out excellent editorial pieces as things have happened. The designers have been making fantastic branded marketing images.

    -Caryn Ann

  6. paulie

    Andrew Smith
    March 1 at 1:03pm

    “On Monday, President Trump made remarks at a budget meeting – remarks that highlighted what he would be proposing in his first budget. Everyone on the left went absolutely crazy at the “massive cuts” he was proposing to everything except military spending. Contrary to what you may have heard, the proposed 2018 budget is set to grow by 3.2%. There were no cuts. All in all, President Trump proposed a small cut back in non-defense discretionary spending, while jacking military spending up by $54 billion. While the “rate of growth” may be getting cut slightly, by less than 2 percentage points, the overall budget will be once again larger.”

  7. paulie

    http://reason.com/archives/2017/03/01/trumps-economic-illiteracy-on-display-in
    Trump’s Economic Illiteracy on Display in Address to Congress
    The president takes a reckless stance on free trade, entitlements, and debt reduction.

    http://reason.com/blog/2017/02/28/silence-this-voice-before-it-speaks-dona
    Silence This VOICE Before It Speaks Out, Donald Trump
    The president’s proposed Victims of Immigration Crime Engagement demonizes people already at the margins of society.

    http://reason.com/archives/2017/03/01/the-bloated-military
    Donald Trump promises massive military spending increases

    http://reason.com/archives/2017/03/01/the-marijuana-exception-to-federalism
    If Jeff Sessions tries to shut down state-licensed cannabusinesses, he will betray his own principles.

    http://reason.com/blog/2017/02/28/20-year-old-deported-for-sex-with-16-yea
    20-Year-Old Deported for Sex with 16-Year-Old, Which Isn’t Even Illegal in 43 States

    http://reason.com/archives/2017/02/26/conservatives-made-their-bed-with-milo-a
    Conservatives Made Their Bed With Milo, Now They Have to Lie In It
    Disinviting him from CPAC won’t wash away their sins.

  8. Tony From Long Island

    Wow. . . . I feel dirty and nasty for agreeing with such a disgusting white supremacist scum bag like Richard Spencer.

  9. dL

    Wow. . . . I feel dirty and nasty for agreeing with such a disgusting white supremacist scum bag like Richard Spencer.

    Not surprised. Fully socialized medicine can be used as an awesome social control mechanism. I have no idea why any sane person would want the Trumpists in charge of a United States NHS. They absolutely would use it for political ends/social control. Ban abortion, ban any health service for “undocumented people,” mandatory piss testing , etc, etc.

    Some here apparently find the debates over immigration “worthless.” Repetitive, perhaps. But not worthless. They should open your eyes to the type of arguments that would be thrown around as a matter of course if the United States had fully socialized medicine. Multiplied by a thousand.

  10. Andy

    “Ban abortion, ban any health service for ‘undocumented people,’ mandatory piss testing , etc, etc.”

    If life begins at conception, then abortion is murder. Do you have any proof that life does not begin at conception? Can you prove when life begins? If you can, then post the evidence. If you can’t, then how can you say for sure that abortion is not murder?

    Also, are you asserting that the the American taxpayers should be forced to pay for healthcare for “undocumented people” (which in an ancap society, would be the equivalent of people who entered Disney World without paying for a ticket)? Do you think that anyone who shows up in the USA is entitled to taxpayer funded services, and if so, do you not think that this would act as a magnet to bring more people here just so they can receive taxpayer funded services, or at least with the ability to receive taxpayer funded services to be one of the biggest reasons for them to want to come here? If you think that it is OK for people to do this, where do you draw the line, considering that there are over 5.6 billion people in the world who live in what most Americans would call poverty, or do you draw a line? Is everyone on the planet entitled to healthcare and other government services paid for by the American taxpayers?

  11. Thomas L. Knapp

    “If life begins at conception, then abortion is murder.”

    Non sequitur. There is no question that life begins at conception. Whether or not “personhood” commences at the same time life does is a different subject — and the relevant one.

    “Also, are you asserting that the the American taxpayers should be forced to pay for healthcare for ‘undocumented people'”

    American taxpayers shouldn’t be force to pay for healthcare for anyone other than themselves, and then only if they decided they want to buy it for themselves.

    Forcing them to pay for healthcare for someone from this side of a gang turf line is no more or less onerous than forcing them to pay for healthcare for someone from the other side of that gang turf line.

    That’s setting aside the fact that the “undocumented people” pay more for their tickets on average than the people born in Disneyland, but aren’t allowed on nearly as many of the rides.

  12. Libertydave

    Andy when you go right-wing nut job you go all the way.

    Your statement: “If life begins at conception, then abortion is murder. Do you have any proof that life does not begin at conception? Can you prove when life begins? If you can, then post the evidence. If you can’t, then how can you say for sure that abortion is not murder?”

    Even if life begins at conception, abortion is not murder, it is self defense. Every year 700-800 women in the USA die during pregnancy or shortly after giving birth. Giving birth to children is dangerous. If a women wants to risk her life giving birth then it should be her choice, not some politicians.

    This is how I can say for sure that abortion is not murder.

  13. Tony From Long Island

    Oh no . . . here we go again with the disgusting Sandy Hook “false flag” garbage. . . . a truly sick and twisted individual – completely devoid of empathy and any sense of reality.

  14. Tony From Long Island

    OK . . . diving into the very sensitive subject of Abortion . . .

    First, let me say that NO ONE is “pro-abortion.” The pro-life zealots love that term and they know they are being disingenuous. No one says “I wish there were more abortions . . ” well . . .except maybe white supremacists (whose opinion means nothing).

    My view is that a fetus becomes a “person” when it is viable on its own. So abortion is not murder when done when the fetus is not viable.

    The decision to terminate a pregnancy is a deeply personal and emotional one. Government should have no role in it whatsoever, except where the fetus is viable.

    In cases where the fetus is viable (and, therefore, a person) there should be very well crafted and clear exceptions, such as the life of the mother being in danger, or if the child would have a short and very painful life due to a disease or birth defect..

    It is not an easy topic.

  15. paulie

    Andy

    2017/03/02 at 10:41 am

    So many errors of thinking in what is for Andy a relatively short post… so little payoff in going thru them point by point. So many other things to get to…

  16. dL

    They should open your eyes to the type of arguments that would be thrown around as a matter of course if the United States had fully socialized medicine. Multiplied by a thousand.

    Quad ero demonstrandum

  17. paulie

    Another good discussion:

    http://knappster.blogspot.com/2017/02/ok-how-to-resist.html#disqus_thread

    US Department of Homeland Security and its ICE and CBP sub-gangs have formally announced new guidelines for escalating the pace of their mass abduction operations across the country.

    If you think this won’t affect you, you probably haven’t spent much time in the totalitarian Constitution-free zones along the gangs’ formal turf lines (e.g. “the US-Mexico border”), which were bad enough 30 years ago and are almost certainly worse now. Expect to start seeing the “immigration enforcement” equivalent of DUI checkpoints, especially in cities with substantial Latino populations.

    Not looking forward to that as someone who is often mistaken for Hispanic or Middle Eastern and can no longer renew my long expired state ID….

  18. paulie

    Knapp via one of his thanks for asking comment threads:

    The only real priority I’ve set for the convention is a platform (https://www.lp.org/platform/) amendment, namely elimination of the final sentence of plank 3.4, a poison pill stuck in there in 2006 to de-libertarianize the plank.

    I concur. Top priority for New Orleans 2018.

  19. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Andy, once again I’d like to suggest that you start a Facebook page. People would be happy to discuss Sandy Hook there. No one here is interested.

    I’d be happy to walk you through opening a Facebook page. You’ll find tons of people there who agree with you on immigration, also.

    I am being sincere about this, Andy. You could actually start an entire FB page on your vision of Andyland. You could educate people there about something they’ve never heard about.

  20. paulie

    It may be more interesting to see Andy condense his thoughts into the twatter character limit.

  21. Tony From Long Island

    It might be more USEFUL if Andy stops living in his own delusions.

  22. Just Some Random Guy

    @ Libertydave

    Even if life begins at conception, abortion is not murder, it is self defense. Every year 700-800 women in the USA die during pregnancy or shortly after giving birth. Giving birth to children is dangerous.

    The problem is that this there are 3,988,076 that give birth in a year. Your odds of dying due to pregnancy are therefore about your odds of dying in a car accident, so pregnancy is no more “dangerous” than driving.

    Beyond that, the majority of people who are pro-life DO think abortion should be legal in cases where the life of the mother is legitimately at stake. So that largely negates the point anyway, because this “self defense” would be legal.

  23. Libertydave

    Just Some Random Guy,

    Regardless of how lite you make the danger seem it is still there. Let’s look at this another way, per capita it is more dangerous to have a baby than it is to be a cop. And cops kill claiming self defense with a lot less actual danger.

  24. TomP

    First time commenter here.

    I used to be a Republican. Then Trump took over my former party and I decided that the LP better fit my beliefs. I did what I could to stop Trump in the primaries, including shifting my vote from my preferred Republican to my second preferred Republican in my state primary (Virginia) in an effort to stop Trump. After Trump locked up the nomination, I decided to support Gary Johnson for President, and I voted for him in the general election.

    I’d like to see the LP grow, and ultimately become a major party on equal par with the Democrats and the Republicans in a three party system,or to replace one of those two old parties as a major party.

    I am writing to comment about an earlier comment about the LP’s apparent loss of focus. I’m afraid that I have to agree with that. I base my belief on what I have observed with respect to special elections that LP candidates have contested so far:

    1. Special election for the 9th district of the Virginia Senate. This seat became vacant when the incumbent senator was elected to Congress. The Republicans had no candidate. The Democrats nominated Jennifer McClellan, the member of the VA House of Delegates from the 71st District. The VA LP fielded a candidate, Corey Fauconier. The state party seemed to give him good support. However, I think they should have pounded McClellan on two points: (a) her public comments suggested that she wanted to move to the Senate as a personal career move, and (b) she was leaving the 71st district unrepresented just as the 60 day legislative session was about to begin. These points were not made. Ultimately, she won with about 91% of the vote.

    2. Special election for the 71st district of the Virginia House of Delegates. Now that McClellan ditched her constituency, it was necessary to hold YET ANOTHER special election to fill her vacated seat. This is a heavily democratic district (McClellan, the former incumbent was reelected several times with no opposition). No Republican ran. The Democratic candidate was Jeffrey Bourne. Mr. Bourne was a member of the Richmond city school board and HAD JUST BEEN REELECTED TO A NEW TERM in 2016. So, like McClellan, he was ditching his constituents for a career move. The LP had a very bright and articulate candidate, John W. Barklay. In a candidate forum, he made a point that I think every LP candidate for office should make — Republicans and Democrats won’t work with each other in office, but they will seek out the support of an LP member, which will only be given if the support is for a proposal worthy of supporting and consistent with LP views. Barklay made this point, however, I think he should have pointed out that Bourne was abandoning his constituents, just after being reelected. In this race, I saw no support being given from the state LP or prominent Virginia Libertarians. In the end Barklay received just over 6% of the vote.

    3. Special election for the 10th Senate District in Delaware. This was a three way race between Stephanie Hansen the Democrat, John Marino the Republican, and Joseph Lanzendorfer, the LP candidate. In a candidate forum, Lanzendorfer pointed out that the Senate was tied and he would be the balance of power. I think this was absolutely the correct point to make. However, I saw little support for his candidacy from the state party, and his campaign website didn’t hammer this point home nearly enough. I also learned that Hansen, the winner, ended up spending over $3/4 million dollars on this race. I think Lanzendorfer should have hammered her on this. In the end, I was disappointed in the level of energy in his campaign (despite a promising start) and the level of support from the state party. It’s worth noting that Delaware was one of the few Northeastern States where Gary Johnson performed above his national average.

    I’m writing this because I think the LP, the state affiliates, and the candidates themselves need to put more energy into special election campaigns. The next one up that there is an LP candidate contesting is the 4th Congressional District of Kansas. So far, the same thing seems to be happening there. In my mind, in a deeply red state, I think the LP candidate should be working to make the Democrat the third party candidate, and after that is accomplished, go after the Republican. So far, judging by campaign websites and Facebook pages, it appears that the Democrat is waging a far more energetic campaign than the LP candidate. I hope this changes.

  25. dL

    The problem is that this there are 3,988,076 that give birth in a year.

    No, the actual problem is fourfold:
    (i) self-defense refers to protection of life, body and property. It’s not just life.

    (2) the rate of spontaneous abortion is roughly equal to surgical abortion. If you are going to prosecute surgical abortions as murder, you most certainly would have to open a possible homicide investigation on every single miscarriage

    (3) you would have to ban reproductive assistance technologies…and given the risk of miscarriage is tied closely to age, you would have to ban pregnancy over the age of, say, 35. Otherwise, you would be de facto tolerating a “spontaneous abortion genocidal regime.”

    (4) If you force a woman to carry to term, why in the world should she then be obligated for the subsequent welfare of the child? I hear a lot talk about “forced welfare support of others.” Well, no better example than this.

  26. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    You’ve made some excellent observations, Tom P. We have a special election coming up in Los Angeles County that might actually go somewhere if we can get her past the “Top Two” nonsense we have here. Unfortunately, that’s a big “if”.

    It took a few hours for your first comment to be approved, and I apologize for that. From now on, any comment from your IP should be posted immediately.

  27. paulie

    You’ve made some excellent observations, Tom P.

    I agree. Unfortunately, most state and local LPs and a lot of candidacies are a lot less organized than people coming from the larger parties expect. In many cases it literally is just a handful of volunteers with busy lives doing other things. It’s not easy to get people involved, and keep them involved, under those circumstances. But the points Tom makes are nevertheless completely valid and all things I have said the equivalent of any number of times over the years.

  28. paulie

    From now on, any comment from your IP should be posted immediately.

    Close, but not quite. What gets approved is a combination of screen name and email address. It actually has little to do with the IP. The same screen name and email (visible in dashboard and comment box but not on the thread in normal view) will be auto-approved regardless of IP, and the same IP will be held up if there is any variation in the screen name and/or email, even a small typo.

    The other thing that can hold up a comment is too many links per comment. Currently I’ve set the limit at 5. For a while it was 2, which was IMO too extreme. It’s a spam guard measure.

    Finally, the automatic spam filter sometimes does make mistakes for reasons I don’t have any clue on. We try to catch those as much as we can, but since we can easily get a hundred or more spam comments an hour that is not always feasible.

  29. paulie

    Libertarian Party of Indiana
    Page Liked · 7 hrs ·

    Trump: “we need more aircraft carriers” – Really???
    Protect our nation, stop invading others. #libertarianIN

  30. paulie

    Ephriam Zachary Knight
    March 3 at 11:42am

    [But the key problem with this cutesy arguments that helps people weirdly uncomfortable with non-natives living in America feel like heroes of liberty for wanting to violently disrupt peaceful person’s lives is that it proves way, way too much, and I’ve never seen anyone apply it consistently against people other than foreign-born rabble who for whatever reason are held to a more stringent standard.

    Because if we held consistently to the standard that libertarians must fight to keep out or eliminate any identifiable group more likely to vote Democratic, what other groups must libertarians drive from the country, or advocate robbing of the franchise?]

    http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/03/is-being-for-more-immigration-an-inheren
    Is Being For More Immigration Inherently Unlibertarian?

  31. paulie

    Bobby Hoyt
    March 3 at 10:01am

    “Libertarians” who say i cant support open borders while there is a welfare state make as much sense as saying i cant support ending the drug war until crackheads stop stealing, i can support non interventionist foreign policy until terrorism is non existent or i cant support legal prostitution until human trafficking stops.

  32. paulie

    I would love to have any other president back evan Nixon. President pee pee is a disgrace.

    Of course he is a disgrace, and without doubt will be the biggest disgrace of them all (in fact he already is), but Nixon and Duhbya were still disgraces in their own right. Nixon is where he ought to be, but as for Duhbya he still belongs behind bars, not back in the white house.

  33. paulie

    Mary J Ruwart Ph.D.
    Page Liked · 23 mins ·

    We win the war on terror when we refuse to be afraid. Do not give the terrorists what they desire by allowing ourselves to be ruled by fear. Have we not yet learned that governments are great at creating boogeymen that need to be killed? Have we yet to learn the extremes to which governments will go to scare people into supporting wars that do not need to be fought? Don’t give terrorists, or governments, the gift of your hatred and fear. They will only use it to control you.

    For more from Dr. Ruwart please visit http://www.ruwart.com.

    #MaryRuwart

  34. Andy

    Eric July also sings and raps in what I’d describe as a rap metal (I’m not sure if that is the proper term, but close enough description) band called BackWordz.

    I hope these guys become big stars.

    BackWordz- Statism (Ft. Craig Mabbitt of Escape The Fate)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq8_2bjJqbo

  35. paulie

    This image makes the same point as an essay/letter to the editor I wrote in college about “gun control”:

  36. paulie

    Capozzi, on a thread whose author has asked us to discontinue the tangent there: “As DFR deflected on whether there were non-whites at the Founding, my working hypotheses is that there were no non-whites”

    If you don’t recall whether there were any left-handed students out of 90 in a college class you had 45 years ago, is it reasonable to have a “working hypothesis” that there were none?

  37. paulie

    It is possible that “omnipotent” is commonly used in the ‘hood and the barrio. Has that been your experience?

    Yes, as I previously explained, religion and hip-hop are commonplace in those communities.

  38. paulie

    But, perhaps, re-writing the platform in ebonics would attract more Compton type blacks.

    Not really relevant to your larger point, but Compton, CA is mostly Latino now.

  39. paulie

    As for disagreement, God doesn’t invite disagreement. Biblical fundamentalists would say, I think, God says this, you better obey. If you don’t expect wrath. Thanks for allowing me to clarify.

    And government is different in this respect? I’m pretty sure government’s whole existence revolves around “you better obey if you don’t expect wrath”….do you disagree?

  40. paulie

    My answer is the 7/8ths rule is unacceptable under virtually any circumstances. If and only if the 89 were themselves Lao Tzu/Jefferson hybrids might I buy that their work was timelessly unassailable.

    I would be surprised if there are no organizations that have mission statements that can’t be changed at all, even by a 7/8 vote.

    “If true, that makes my point. Being pigmentally challenged myself ;), and from the ‘burbs, it could well be that Sly and the Family Stone and Carlos Santana used “omnipotent” in their tunes. Maybe it was a word spoken from the pulpit all the time in 69. Could be, though I am skeptical.”

    I wasn’t born in 1969 but I would be surprised if a word commonly used in the Bible was not also commonly spoken from the pulpit then or in any other year since the common languages of the audience have been used from the pulpit.

    But, even with your hypothetical, I’m making a much broader point. All else equal, effective communications involves understanding the audience. If the 89 were all white, and they were not Lao Tzu and Jefferson hybrids, it’s entirely possible that their SoP language was not vetted by people who had a direct experience of minority communities who, it’s fair to say, use somewhat different language than does the majority community.

    You are jumping to conclusions with a “working hypothesis” that they were all white, but even if they were it doesn’t mean they had no experience in minority communities. The US regime classifies me as white, even though white racists do not, and I have plenty of experience in minority communities.

  41. Tony From Long Island

    I don’t no about you all but as a Libertarian Im liking George W. more and more each day.

    George Will, maybe . . . . GWB . . . . umm no thanks.

  42. Concerned Citizen

    Donald Trump is the best President we have ever had. Andrew Jackson is now in second place for best of all time.

  43. Tony From Long Island

    Paulie . . . you don’t want to have something in common with our current president . . .

  44. dL

    Donald Trump is the best President we have ever had. Andrew Jackson is now in second place for best of all time.

    I suppose so if you are weak ,ugly and stupid and require daddy government to protect you from the competition of civilization.

  45. paulie

    Paulie . . . you don’t want to have something in common with our current president . . .

    It was an impostor pretending to be me and, ironically, talking to himself, which is what he accused me of.

  46. paulie

    Mary J Ruwart Ph.D.
    Page Liked · 4 hrs ·

    Power, as in political power, is used to bend others to our will. However, we must be willing to grant liberty to others to have it for ourselves. When people are ready, change will happen. Right now, most people want liberty for themselves, but not for their neighbor. Obviously, that won’t work. We must be caring enough to allow others to be free if we want freedom for ourselves.

    For more from Dr. Ruwart please visit http://www.ruwart.com.

    #MaryRuwart

  47. Tony From Long Island

    . . . . .Actually he was playing navy, but close enough. . . . .

    Press person: Mr. Trump, which foot did you have the bone spur in?

    Cheetolini: Umm, It’s in the records . . .

  48. Andy

    “Chip Killington
    March 7, 2017 at 08:07
    The news about Gary is very sad. I consiter myself a Gary Johnson Libertarian.”

    So you really think that Gary Johnson should run for President a third time?

  49. Tony From Long Island

    Re: Gary Johnson:
    ANDY: ” . . . . .I say good riddance to him. I doubt that any political party would be stupid enough to nominate him again anyway. . . ” </blockquote.

    Andy again shows why he lacks empathy or any decent human emotion . . . .

  50. Andy

    “Tony From Long Island
    March 7, 2017 at 08:53
    Re: Gary Johnson:
    ANDY: ‘ . . . . .I say good riddance to him. I doubt that any political party would be stupid enough to nominate him again anyway. . . ‘ </blockquote.

    Andy again shows why he lacks empathy or any decent human emotion . . . "

    Gary Johnson advocated multiple violations of the Libertarian Party's platform during his campaign, plus he made an ass out of himself on several occasions (Aleppo, sticking his tongue out at a reporter, etc…). His campaign finance situation was a mess, and he's got unpaid debts from his 2012 campaign. His stint as Governor of New Mexico is overrated from a libertarian perspective, as he greatly increased the state spending and state debt, and in spite of his rhetoric about legalizing marijuana, and in spite of him being a self professed libertarian since the 1980's, he never released any non-violent drug offenders from jail or prison.

    Some of you people out there may not realize this since some of you seem to live in cocoons (as in you don't talk to regular people in the real world very often), but Gary Johnson actually got NEGATIVE publicity for the party. I have encountered quite a few people over the last few months who have made negative comments about Gary Johnson, either due to him looking unprepared, and even stupid, at times, or because he lacked libertarian principles. I can't do anything other than agree with these people and say that the Libertarian Party will make an effort to nomination a better presidential candidate next time.

  51. Andy

    : will make an effort to nomination a better presidential candidate next time.”

    Should read, “will make an effort to nominate a better presidential candidate next time.”

  52. TomP

    I see both points in the discussion about Gary Johnson and his running again.

    I SO MUCH wanted a viable alternative to Trump and Hillary. I was willing to support Gary, and did vote for him, but I had to suspend disbelief in many respects to do so. Even when he didn’t commit a gaffe, I often thought that he didn’t put his strongest argument forward in response to a question he got, even a friendly question, from the media. In the end, I was still able to vote for him because (a) while he may have been gaffe prone, he didn’t make me want to throw a rock through the TV like Hillary and Trump did every time I saw them, (b) Trump made me politically homeless anyway, and (c) I wanted to vote for the future and try to build up a third party alternative to the Republicans and Democrats, and a vote for Gary was the best way to accomplish that.

    The gaffes were unfortunate, because I think he was able to do much more. I watched clips from his 2012 campaigns, and I thought he was a far better candidate then, both in the Republican primaries and later as a Libertarian. That line about his neighbors two dogs creating more shovel ready jobs than Obama was one of the funniest lines, in both content and delivery, that I’ve ever heard in political discourse. It’s a shame we couldn’t have seen more of that in his 2016 run.

    Whether he wants to or not, I don’t think Gary should run again. He’s tried twice. I think that if he were to be nominated, it would show that the Libertarians have no one better on their bench. Whether true or not, that’s not a message that the party can, or should, convey. In the meantime, I think the Libertarians should concentrate on being competitive in, and actually winning, down ballot and off year races. This will build their bench and convey more seriousness. This thinking was behind a comment I made above showing concern about the apparent lack of energy and effort in special elections that have been run this year so far.

  53. Chip Killington

    Yes. I want Gary to run again. He did a great job. Hopefully Bill Weld will run. He was a very impressive running mate.

  54. Andy

    “Chip Killington
    March 7, 2017 at 19:21
    Yes. I want Gary to run again. He did a great job. Hopefully Bill Weld will run. He was a very impressive running mate.”

    LOL! This has got to be a troll post.

  55. Thomas L. Knapp

    This was a year when the Libertarian presidential ticket had to bust their asses and work 24/7 to get less than 5% of the vote.

    I have to hand it to them. They somehow managed to do worse than a pencil sharpener for president and a slice of key lime pie for VP would have.

  56. Andy

    “Thomas L. Knapp
    March 7, 2017 at 20:27
    This was a year when the Libertarian presidential ticket had to bust their asses and work 24/7 to get less than 5% of the vote.

    I have to hand it to them. They somehow managed to do worse than a pencil sharpener for president and a slice of key lime pie for VP would have.”

    Yes, this was the most favorable set of circumstances in which the Libertarian Party has ever run a presidential ticket. 2008 and 2012 were also good sets of circumstances for the LP, and we screwed those up, and we screwed 2016 up as well.

    We could have picked random delegates out of the room in Orlando and made them the presidential ticket, and we still would have been likely to get over a million votes for President last year. Any ticket that had its act together at all could have done better than Johnson/Weld.

    I just hope that we have a favorable set of circumstances in 2020, and I hope that the LP presidential ticket is more plausibly libertarian than the last three tickets have been.

  57. Chip Killington

    Why are you people so hateful of Gary Johnson and Bill Weld. Gary Johnson is as libertairian as can be. Bill Weld is the originating libertairian.

  58. Jim

    Thomas L. Knapp “This was a year when the Libertarian presidential ticket had to bust their asses and work 24/7 to get less than 5% of the vote. I have to hand it to them. They somehow managed to do worse than a pencil sharpener for president and a slice of key lime pie for VP would have.”

    Andy “Any ticket that had its act together at all could have done better than Johnson/Weld.”

    You can tell you’re right by how well Jill Stein and every other candidate in the race did, both in the general and at the convention.

  59. Jim

    Andy “Gary Johnson advocated multiple violations of the Libertarian Party’s platform….”

    You realize that people say the same thing about you?

  60. Andy

    Jim said: “You can tell you’re right by how well Jill Stein and every other candidate in the race did, both in the general and at the convention.”

    The Green Party came into the election year with ballot access in less states than the Libertarian Party. The Green Party is smaller than the Libertarian Party, and the Green Party has a smaller budget than the Libertarian Party. Jill Stein is also not a well known person, but in spite of this, she actually did relatively well in the election, as she ran a better campaign on a lower budget as compared to Gary Johnson, and she received over 1.4 million votes.

    Votes were up for most minor party and independent candidates. Evan McMullin jumped in the race very late and he only made the ballot in 10 states, and he got over 700,000 votes. Darrell Castle of the Constitution Party ran on a shoe string budget, and he only qualified for the ballot in 24 states, and he received over 200,000 votes, and he in fact got more raw votes than any other candidate that the Constitution Party has ever run for President (and note that past Constitution Party candidates for President got on more ballots than Castle did).

    Johnson/Weld were the only other ticket on the ballot in all 50 states plus DC, and they had a lot more money than their next closest competitor, Jill Stein.

    The potential for the LP this year was a lot higher than the 3.2% of the vote that Johnson/Weld got. Also, considering that they advocated against the Libertarian Party’s platform on multiple issues, and they watered down other issues, I’d have preferred a more principled ticket even if it meant they got less votes, but I would not automatically assume that a more principled ticket would have gotten less votes.

  61. Andy

    “Jim
    March 8, 2017 at 01:50
    Andy “Gary Johnson advocated multiple violations of the Libertarian Party’s platform….”

    You realize that people say the same thing about you?”

    Who are these people, and which Libertarian Party platform planks have I advocated against? If you are talking about immigration, my stance is perfectly in line with the LP’s platform, as the platform touts the benefits of people being able to cross borders, which I agree with,, but then it says that it is OK to reject people who pose a threat to “security, health, or property,” which is something of which I am also in agreement.

    So I don’t know what you are talking about, and neither do you.

    Also, I am not a candidate for office, nor have I ever run for office. I don’t know if I ever will run for office or not, but the fact of the matter is that I have never been a candidate for political office, nor do I have any plans in place to become a candidate for office.

    I’m an anarcho-capitalist libertarian. I’m also realistic, in that I don’t think that shutting down government is as simple as wishing that it would go away. I also think that it does matter how you go about shutting down government, and I’d want to do it without causing societal collapse. Reality is that many libertarians, including many who are self professed anarcho-capitalists, have no idea how to go about implementing their philosophy. There are lots of libertarians who are good at spouting philosophy, but they could not win an election or sway public policy if their life depended on it.

    I’m not even so sure that we’ll ever be able to abolish coercive government. I think that our only real hope to achieve liberty in our lifetimes is for libertarians to break off from the rest of society and form our own community, which would have to include a defense mechanism to keep non-libertarians out.

    If libertarians are unwilling to move out of wherever they live and form a libertarian community somewhere, then the best we may ever be able to hope for is some kind of watered down bastardized version of freedom. This is one reason why I’m big on things that don’t require libertarians to get elected to office, like jury nullification, alternative currencies, gun ownership (the more gun owners, the harder it will be for government to confiscate them), and home schooling (less people being programmed by the government indoctrination system).

    Reality is that you can’t live surrounded by a population that does not want freedom and expect to have freedom. Libertarians won’t have real freedom so long as they are unwilling to relocate to the same area where they can become a majority. I do not see any evidence that we are going to get a majority of the population to adopt libertarian principles. It would be nice if we could, but I am skeptical that it will happen.

    Anyway, put me up against Gary Johnson and Bill Weld issue for issue, and I will DESTROY them. I would be willing to debate either of them in person, and have it posted to YouTube. I would enjoy the opportunity to humiliate them and have it put on video for the world to see.

  62. Jim

    Andy “The Green Party came into the election year with ballot access in less states than the Libertarian Party. The Green Party is smaller than the Libertarian Party, and the Green Party has a smaller budget than the Libertarian Party. Jill Stein is also not a well known person, but in spite of this, she actually did relatively well in the election, as she ran a better campaign on a lower budget as compared to Gary Johnson, and she received over 1.4 million votes.”

    Gary Johnson was well known? How’d that happen? He was a Governor, 14 years out of office, of a state of which, as Thomas Knapp repeatedly reminded us during the campaign, there are mayors with more constituents. Was the brilliant Jill Stein (who, as Thomas Knapp repeatedly reminded us during the campaign, was so brilliant and talented that Johnson was terrified to debate her), not brilliant and talented enough to become a Governor of a small state or mayor of a large city in order to become more well known?

    And in terms of dollars/vote, Stein and Johnson were nearly tied. From Jan 1 to election day, Stein raised $3,732,287 and got 1,457,222 votes. In the same time period, Johnson raised 11,610,725 and got 4,489,233 votes. That’s $2.56 per vote for Stein and $2.59 for Johnson.

    How about percent increase in votes from 2012?
    Johnson went from 1,275,923 to 4,489,233. That’s +252%.
    Stein went from 469,015 to 1,457,222. That’s +211%.
    The Constitution Party went from 122,417 to 203,069. That’s +66%.

    You and Knapp are making the absurd claim that Jill Stein (and maybe others of the field ex Trump and Hillary) did better than Johnson despite being not achieving as much name recognition, not raising as much money, not getting as many votes, not achieving as large of a percent increase in votes, and not doing well enough in 2012 to put their party on par with the Libertarians ballot access for 2016.

    The two of you have exactly zero evidence than any other libertarian could have done better than Johnson by any measurable standard.

    Andy “If you are talking about immigration, my stance is perfectly in line with the LP’s platform, as the platform touts the benefits of people being able to cross borders, which I agree with,, but then it says that it is OK to reject people who pose a threat to “security, health, or property,” which is something of which I am also in agreement.”

    It has been pointed out to you several times that the platform calls for controls over people who pose a credible threat to prosperity. Individuals pose threats. You, on the other hand, have made no such limitation. Rather, in the posts that I have read (and I have not read them all) you seem to advocate for a blanket restriction on groups of people because of what you fear some members of that group might do.

    But, I confess that don’t know the full extent of your position. Would you answer a few questions?

    Do you support E-Verify to prevent illegals from working in the US?
    Do you support government raids of homes and businesses to search for illegals?
    Do you support the deportation of illegals who are providing for themselves without government assistance?
    Do you support the seizure of property through eminent domain so that the government can build a wall?
    Do you support the inspection of vehicles to check for illegal immigrants?
    Do you support inspection of paperwork at airports, docks, and train stations to check for illegal immigrants?
    Do you support a tax to pay for the border patrol and/or interior immigration enforcement?

  63. paulie

    Johnson probably got more votes than other candidates for the nomination would have had, as some news outlets allegedly decided to cover the LP ticket early on due to the fact that the LP nominated two former governors combined with the large scale dissatisfaction with the establishment party nominees. Stein probably benefited from that as well, since she was in many of those instances covered as well for the sake of balance. However, the Johnson campaign suffered from exaggerated expectations. The lawsuit was a longshot and did not succeed, and the polling averaged about half of what the CoPD required. The CoPD claimed they were considering relaxing their criteria, but in the end never did. Once it became clear that debate access was not going to happen, the campaign stalled and the interim goal became once again getting 5% to get government election welfare for 2020.

    And then, progressives looked at polls that showed a chunk of mostly young people expressing intent to vote for Johnson who they believed would otherwise be more likely to vote for Clinton, so they came down on Johnson with some gotcha questions and Johnson stumbled through them, thus getting him off track for the 5% (probably a good thing, as we would have likely faced a parade of charlatans clawing for the money similar to Reform Party death race 2000 if the LP ticket was getting that money in 2020). Weld and perhaps also Johnson also hoped to cost Trump the election, and failed at that as well.

    In terms of party growth, at least so far there has not been the membership and revenue decline that usually follows a presidential campaign. State party conventions and local meetings so far this year are reportedly going strong. Keeping the new members in the LP is the job of HQ and state and local parties. Making them more libertarian over time is the job of the radical caucus and the long term members, as well as of non-party libertarian organizations that they will hopefully be in touch with if they stay involved.

  64. paulie

    I want Gary to run again.

    Not happening. He has ruled it out.

    Hopefully Bill Weld will run. He was a very impressive running mate.

    He may, but he’s far from ideal in terms of views, background and his willingness to more or less openly endorse a competing ticket. Some people also think he is getting too old, although I would not necessarily say that.

  65. paulie

    http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/07/america-not-the-worlds-lawgiver-justice

    On Monday, the Supreme Court declined to hear Baston’s appeal. Justice Thomas’ was the sole dissenter who thought the Court should take the case. “I am confident,” wrote Thomas, that “whatever the correct interpretation of the foreign commerce power may be, it does not confer upon Congress a virtually plenary power over global economic activity.”

    While Baston might not be a “sympathetic” figure, the “principle involved” in his case is “fundamental,” and thus worthy of reconsideration, wrote Thomas. “Taken to the limits of its logic, the consequences of the Court of Appeals’ reasoning are startling. The Foreign Commerce Clause would permit Congress to regulate any economic activity anywhere in the world, so long as Congress had a rational basis to conclude that the activity has a substantial effect on commerce between this Nation and any other. Congress would be able not only to criminalize prostitution in Australia, but also to regulate working conditions in factories in China, pollution from powerplants in India, or agricultural methods on farms in France.”

  66. paulie

    http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/07/berkeley-deletes-200000-free-online-vide

    The handicappers general in the Department of Justice strike again: the University of California, Berkeley, is deleting a massive amount of free, online content in order to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act.

    Berkeley previously housed an online library consisting of more than 20,000 videos of lectures. These videos were free and accessible to the public. But they are free no longer: next week, administrators will withdraw access to anyone who isn’t a Berkeley student or professor.

    Why? Because the federal government left them no other choice.

  67. Andy

    Jim, the statistics I have pointed out clearly indicate that there are in fact a disturbing number of immigrants who are a threat to “security, health, or property.” It is not my fault if some people are too blind to analyze these statistics.

  68. Andy

    Jim is attacking me over one platform plank, WHICH I AM NOT EVEN ADVOCATING AGAINST, yet he supports Johnson and Weld, both of whom actively campaigned on the presidential ticket against MULTIPLE LP platform planks, and as if this was not bad enough, they called one of their corrupt opponents, Hillary Clinton, “a wonderful public servant.”

  69. Andy

    INFOWARS WARNED OF GOVERNMENT USING MICROPHONES TO SPY ON AMERICANS ELEVEN YEARS AGO
    They would have called this “fake news” at the time

    https://www.infowars.com/infowars-warned-of-government-using-microphones-to-spy-on-americans-eleven-years-ago/

    From the article: “In light of the Wikileaks ‘Vault 7’ data dump confirming that the CIA is using microphones in smart phones and TVs to spy on people’s conversations, it’s worth highlighting the fact that Infowars was reporting on this very same issue ELEVEN years ago.

    The leaks show that a project codenamed Weeping Angel was developed to hack Samsung’s F8000 range of smart TVs and trick the user into thinking the sets were turned off.

    The TV sets would then be infected to covertly record audio and send that information over the Internet to CIA servers once the TVs were turned back on and a wi-fi connection was re-established.”

  70. Jim

    Andy “Jim, the statistics I have pointed out clearly indicate that there are in fact a disturbing number of immigrants who are a threat to “security, health, or property.” It is not my fault if some people are too blind to analyze these statistics.

    The statistics also indicate that every race, religion, and other grouping of people is more likely to work as a cashier than an anesthesiologist. And yet, I don’t assume everyone I encounter is a cashier.

    Andy “Jim is attacking me over one platform plank, WHICH I AM NOT EVEN ADVOCATING AGAINST, yet he supports Johnson and Weld, both of whom actively campaigned on the presidential ticket against MULTIPLE LP platform planks….”

    I did not defend Johnson or Weld for their violations. My support for them was in spite of those violations because most of the violations I considered minor when stacked against what Hillary and Trump were advocating. I don’t expect perfection from candidates. My minimum standard is that a candidate must support a net reduction in government and Johnson clearly met that standard.

    As I’m sure you are aware, the Libertarian Platform states that the only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights against aggression.

    The simple act of walking across an imaginary line drawn by a gang of thugs in the District of Corruption * not on private property, or onto private property that welcomes them * does not violate anyone’s rights. Your whole argument is that someday in the future, some portion of the people who walk across that line might commit some violation. You’re convicting them of pre-crime.

    In response, you are advocating for multiple counts of the initiation aggression, including:

    *the forcible confiscation of wealth to pay for your border patrol
    *seizure of property through eminent domain to build your wall
    *interfering in agreements between employers and employees to block the hiring of illegals
    *restrictions on movement inside the US through internal passports
    *initiation of force against illegals providing for themselves, because someday in the future they might not
    *violating the right to be secure in our homes and property in order to search for illegals

    You can pretend that immigration restrictions against entire classes of people, rather than specific individuals who are determined to be a threat, doesn’t violate the LP Platform. It does. But you can’t pretend that the application of mass immigration restrictions doesn’t violate a whole slew of other parts of the platform.

  71. Thomas L. Knapp

    Blowing the money on F-35s after all.

    Drone strikes way up.

    Artillery and infantry elements of a Marine Expeditionary Unit have now been landed in Syria.

    And yet some non-interventionists still haven’t got it through their heads that Trump conned them.

  72. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    Nah, it’s Nathan Norman. He thinks we won’t notice it’s him if he purposefully misspells a couple words to look stupider than we already think he is.

    It blows my mind that someone considers trolling like this to be worthy of their time. How incredibly sad and pathetic.

  73. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt Post author
    March 9, 2017 at 22:11
    Nah, it’s Nathan Norman. He thinks we won’t notice it’s him if he purposefully misspells a couple words to look stupider than we already think he is.

    It blows my mind that someone considers trolling like this to be worthy of their time. How incredibly sad and pathetic.”

    He/she could be getting paid to troll here.

  74. Chip Killington

    “No human being is illegal.”

    Except for white people who stole America from the Natives. Stole Austrailia from the ab-originals. Stole Soth Africa from the zooloos.

  75. paulie

    Except for white people who stole America from the Natives. Stole Austrailia from the ab-originals. Stole Soth Africa from the zooloos.

    Yes, those people are all dead. Collective guilt is an anti-liberty concept.

  76. paulie

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/03/10/appeals_court_rules_homeless_man_cannot_sue_cop_who_let_police_dog_maul.html

    On Thursday, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit issued one of the most gruesome and inhumane decisions in recent memory, holding that the Constitution does not necessarily require law enforcement officers to stop police dogs from brutally mauling innocent people. If it stands, the decision would ensure that a homeless man who was disfigured by a police dog will not be able to sue a police officer who knew the man was innocent and allowed the dog to continue attacking him. It is an astonishing ruling that defies all logic and illustrates the grave threat that qualified immunity poses to constitutional rights today.

  77. Andy

    “On Thursday, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit issued one of the most gruesome and inhumane decisions in recent memory, holding that the Constitution does not necessarily require law enforcement officers to stop police dogs from brutally mauling innocent people. If it stands, the decision would ensure that a homeless man who was disfigured by a police dog will not be able to sue a police officer who knew the man was innocent and allowed the dog to continue attacking him. It is an astonishing ruling that defies all logic and illustrates the grave threat that qualified immunity poses to constitutional rights today.”

    This is disgusting. That cop should go to prison.

  78. Thomas L. Knapp

    It sure would be a shame if that cop disappeared for a few days and finally turned up, alive or dead, with dog bites all over his body. I know I’d be really sympathetic to his plight.

  79. dL

    This decision is abominable. Just when I think things can’t get much worse–they get much worse.

    No, the worst was earlier this year when the supreme court in White v. Paulie reaffirmed qualified immunity by 8-0. Unanimous. Blank check.

  80. Andy

    It looks like Alex Jones is keeping his promise to criticize Donald Trump when he does something wrong. I wonder whether or not he will still be supporting Donald Trump by the time the next presidential election comes around. I just hope that there are some viable alternatives among minor party and independent candidates for President in 2020.

    Alex Jones: Donald Trump Is Wrong In Supporting Paul Ryan’s Health Bill

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52UKo-GQj5Y

  81. Tony From Long Island

    I’ll have to read the whole decision, but this could be an instance of me AGREEING with Andy. Write it down.

  82. paulie

    It looks like Alex Jones is keeping his promise to criticize Donald Trump when he does something wrong.

    And this was the only thing he found to criticize? LOL.

  83. Andy

    “paulie
    March 15, 2017 at 09:30
    ‘It looks like Alex Jones is keeping his promise to criticize Donald Trump when he does something wrong.’
    And this was the only thing he found to criticize? LOL.”

    No, he has criticized some other things as well, particularly Trump’s refusal to pardon Edward Snowden.

    It is a good sign that he is being critical at all, as lots of people will not criticize somebody or group after they have supported them. Look at all of the mindless people out there who supported Barack Obama and George W. Bush who continued to support them no matter what they did, and who turned a blind eye to all of their wrong doings.

    It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years, but it is a good sign that people like Jones are already criticizing Donald Trump. It would be good for everyone if Donald Trump turned out to be a good thing, but I don’t think that we are going to be that lucky.

    This situation, which Adam Kokesh talked about in the Trump/Johnson Effect video, is in a lot of ways the fault of the Libertarian Party, for screwing up so badly over the last several years. If the party had its act together, it would have come into 2016 in a much stronger position, and it would have offered the public a much better choice for President, and a much better presidential campaign. Nominating a watered down, unprincipled, uninspiring ticket like Johnson/Weld was about the worst thing that the party could have done last year. This damaged the reputation of the party (which was already damaged prior to 2016, but it damaged it even more) within the greater liberty and alternative party and alternative media movements. Lots of people who may otherwise be supportive of the LP have been turned off by decisions made by LP delegates and party leadership over the years.

  84. Tony From Long Island

    How does everything seem to turn to Johnson / Weld with Andy?

    Is he responsible for Global Warming too? Or is that just a Hoax?

  85. Thomas L. Knapp

    “How does everything seem to turn to Johnson / Weld with Andy?”

    It’s 2017. Johnson has effectively been the LP’s face for five years now. It’s pretty hard to discuss the LP’s current situation WITHOUT it turning to Johnson (and, lately, Weld).

  86. Andy

    “Thomas L. Knapp
    March 16, 2017 at 07:58
    ‘How does everything seem to turn to Johnson / Weld with Andy?’

    It’s 2017. Johnson has effectively been the LP’s face for five years now. It’s pretty hard to discuss the LP’s current situation WITHOUT it turning to Johnson (and, lately, Weld).”

    I don’t think that “everything” turns to talk about Johnson/Weld with me, but yeah, the presidential candidate, whether we like it or not, is the public face of a political party as far as most of the public is concerned, and the vice presidential candidate is a high profile public face as well.

    Also, it is not like their campaign was a long time ago, so discussing the Johnson/Weld campaign, and its aftermath, is not like bringing up something from the distant past.

    Incidentally, I have gotten lots of negative comments about the Johnson/Weld ticket, and I have not seen anything quite like this since all of the negative feedback from random members of the public over the Barr/Root ticket. I am not talking about negative feedback from people who don’t like the Libertarian Party or philosophy, but rather negative feedback about the candidates being unprincipled, and/or unprepared. I can’t do anything other than agree with these people, and point out that we had better candidates running for other offices, and that we will make an effort to nominate a better presidential ticket next time.

  87. Tony From Long Island

    yeah . . yeah . . . lots of negative comments about the guy who got the most votes for the LP by a mile . . . OK. Of course the circle of people you associate with would have negative comments. Is that in between listening to Alex Jones and reading Breitbart?

  88. paulie

    I’ve gotten fair sprinklings of both positive and negative comments both from the general public and self-described libertarians.

  89. paulie

    http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/16/trumps-budget-blueprint-is-decadent-and
    Why Trump’s Budget Blueprint Loses Libertarians
    Defense and Homeland Security hikes make up for cuts in discretionary spending. Does the government always need to spend $4 trillion?

    Steve King’s Fear of Immigrants Is Ignorant of History
    History shows a pattern of assimilation, not danger.
    http://reason.com/archives/2017/03/16/are-immigrants-destroying-our-way-of-lif

    interesting excerpt, contra claims made here frequently:

    A 2011 Gallup poll found that 89 percent of American Muslims say there is never a justification for an individual or group to target and kill civilians—compared with only 71 percent of Protestants and Catholics. American Muslims are also more favorable to same-sex marriage than evangelical Christians are.

    The fear that foreigners will poison our culture or destroy our government has no basis in experience. “Basic indicators of assimilation, from naturalization to English ability, are if anything stronger now than they were a century ago,” University of Washington scholar Jacob Vigdor has written about Hispanics.

    And:

    What is it about high-achieving Asian-Americans that Bannon finds threatening to our way of life—aside, that is, from their race?

    From the start, immigrants have elicited groundless panic. Bannon, a Catholic, forgets that Catholic immigrants were once seen as fundamentally hostile to democratic principles. The eminent 19th-century Presbyterian minister Lyman Beecher warned that “the subjects of the pope” would “subvert our free institutions.” Beecher would be surprised that subjects of the pope now dominate that free institution called the Supreme Court.

    The court also has three Jewish justices, which would offend supporters of the Immigration Act of 1924. It was designed to keep out Jews, among others, who were seen as genetically inferior and politically radical. Jews, however, confounded anti-Semites by succeeding and integrating into American society just as every previous immigrant group had.

  90. paulie

    http://reason.com/archives/2017/03/15/maybe-its-time-for-gun-owners-and-muslim

    …The trouble with the one-gun-a-month law is that it truncates the rights of all Virginians, in order to thwart the designs of a minuscule minority who want to run guns to New York. To the ordinary gun owner in Virginia, who follows the law and leaves other people alone unless they mess with him first, it must seem brutally unfair to restrict his right to keep and bear arms because of something somebody else did, or might do in the future.

    And this is precisely how the Trump administration’s assaults on Muslims must seem to persons of the Islamic faith. The vast majority of them pose no threat to anyone, and never will. Hence President Trump’s campaign talk of a ban on Muslims and his administration’s restrictions on travel from certain Islamic countries seem brutally unfair as well.

    Not only that, they seem ineffective. Of the 10 fatal terrorist attacks linked to Islamic radicalism that have occurred on U.S. soil since (and including) 9/11, not one of them would have been thwarted by the sort of ban that Trump imposed …

  91. Andy

    Tony, i am talking about random members of the public I have encountered while gathering petition signatures. I have received quite a few negative comments about Gary Johnson and Bill Weld. This is the most negativity I have ever seen for any LP candidates since Barr/Root, and I would say more negative comments since Johnson/Weld received more publicity.

    Even out of people who say they voted for him, most of them are only lukewarm.

  92. Andy

    “George Phillies
    March 17, 2017 at 21:13
    ‘lots of negative comments about the guy who got the most votes for the LP by a mile .’

    That would be Trump and Clinton, I believe.”

    Yes, a lot of the votes for the Johnson/Weld ticket were not so much votes for Johnson/Weld, or the Libertarian Party or movement (Johnson/Weld don’t even really represent either), as they were protest votes against Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.

    Some people here fail to grasp just how badly the Libertarian Party blew the opportunity that the dynamics of last year’s election gave us. This has to be one of the biggest blown opportunities ever.

  93. paulie

    Part of the dynamics that you may be missing is that at the point when the media went after Johnson they would have gone after any other LP ticket, because they were concerned he might help Trump. All politicians commit gaffes or say something stupid or something that can be spun to make them sound racist, uncaring, etc., at some point. Of course, to even have that problem they would have had to made that kind of dent in the polls to begin with, and you are only assuming that any other LP ticket would have, which may or may not be true. 50 state ballot access, as you know, was not a done deal at nomination time. If fundraising cratered post-nomination, we may have ended up with about the same ballot access as Jill Stein, and she could have well become the main third candidate in most coverage of the contest as opposed to the hypothetical LP nominee.

  94. George Phillies

    The press did not have to go after Johnson, he did it to himself. The problem was apparent from the first town hall appearance in which he passed off the serious foreign and military affairs question to Weld.

  95. paulie

    It was a combination of both. If you think they wouldn’t have found an opening with any of the other candidates for the nomination had they gotten that high in the polls and drawn a large chunk of their support from voters who would be more likely to vote for the Democrats otherwise, I think you are mistaken. And I also think you’re mistaken if you think the Aleppo question and the way it was posed without framing wasn’t one of many gotcha attempts. It worked that time, but sooner or later something would have, with any candidate. Yes, deferring to Weld was a bad idea. I was not happy with the ticket, and did not vote for them at the convention. But anyone who think that it’s a given that the other candidates for the nomination would have done better is engaging in wishful thinking.

  96. paulie

    Prison Guards Who Threw Inmate in Hot Shower, Killing Him, Committed No Crime, State’s Attorney Rules
    Incident occurred in 2012, the investigation was launched two years later after a local paper started asking questions.
    Ed Krayewski

    Darren Rainey spent two hours locked in a shower inmates at the Dade Correctional Institute said prison guards left set to scalding hot before dying of the injuries caused by the water. Rainey’s skin was peeling off when he was removed from the shower. Inmates say he was screaming to be let out before he died, and that guards regularly used extremely hot and cold showers to punish mentally ill patients. Nearly five years later, in a report released Friday, the state’s attorney has ruled that there was no criminal conduct by the guards.

    In her ruling, Katherine Fernandez Rundle said, according to the Miami Herald, that John Fan Fan, a sergeant, and the officers involved in getting Rainey into the shower, Ronald Clarke, Cornelius Thompson, and Edwina Williams, didn’t act with premeditation, malice, recklessness, ill-will, hatred or evil intent. The officers involved were eventually promoted after the incident.

    The state attorney claimed testimony from inmates was inconsistent with testimony from prison staff as well as physical evidence, and that she could not find evidence Rainey was burned to death. His family says they were pressured to cremate his body, the fact that Rainey’s skin fell off on contact after his death is undisputed, and the nurse who tried to take his temperature after he died said it was too high to register on the thermometer. A prison officer tested the shower a couple of days after Rainey’s death, finding it went as high as 160 degrees, but no investigators checked the shower the day of Rainey’s death.

  97. Jim

    Wasn’t Oklahoma the only state were the only options were Hillary, Trump, and Johnson? Every other state in the country had at least one other candidate. If people wanted to cast a protest vote against Hillary and Trump, they had other choices besides Johnson. If they were picking randomly, the votes would have been evenly distributed among the protest choices.

    Nevada even has “None of the Above”, which got 2.56%. Johnson still got 3.32%, which was in line with his national average of 3.27%.

  98. Just Some Random Guy

    Although this was posted already on the blog, what I find to be the most important part of it only shows up if you read the whole thing rather than just a quick glance at the headline and start:

    https://www.lp.org/our-latest-victory/

    Most of the article is about how they were able to win their lawsuit against the CPD, which is good news. However, what I think was the most important part to tell people is unfortunately hidden beneath, which is that they apparently have an offer to match 2x ballot access donations, i.e. if you donate $5 then someone else will give $10 for a total of $15. That’s pretty notable, and I thought I should share it here where people might be more likely to see it.

  99. paulie

    The nazi comment addressed by NF and Jake has been removed from all the threads where we have found it thus far.

  100. paulie

    Wasn’t Oklahoma the only state were the only options were Hillary, Trump, and Johnson?

    It may have been the only state where no other write-in votes were counted; I’d have to check. However there were a small handful of states where no other alt party or independent made the ballot. I believe Indiana, North Carolina and Georgia were in that category. There may have been one or two others; again I would have to check.

  101. paulie

    JSRG,

    Thanks for your diligence. I haven’t seen a way to check the donation meter on that one without donating. Since I am not in a position to donate at the moment, would someone who is like to tell us how the ticker is moving on that one?

  102. George Phillies

    So for those of you curious about campaign finances, Johnson 2012 filed another settlement plan. This time five copies of the campaign mailing list were identified as the only asset, at a nominal value of $750,000, and used to pay some of the debts. Most of the remaining debtors got nothing.
    However, the new settlement plan had an interesting statement in it, namely that Johnson 2016 had debts in excess of assets on hands, so there were no other Johnson campaign funds that could be used to pay the debts.

    It si noteworthy that the “February 2017” report from Johnson 2016 covering the month of January 2017 showed $259,590.91 in cash on hand, and no debts.

    And on March 16 of this year, Johnson 2016 filed for permission to go immediately to quarterly filing with the FEC, meaning that instead of owing an FEC filing today they owe a filing in late April 2017.

  103. Richard Winger

    Philadelphia election returns tonight for the special legislative election show that the only candidate on the ballot, the Republican, only got 7%. The other 93% went to write-in candidates. The two most important write-in candidates are the Democrat, Emilio Vazquez, and the Green, Cheri Honkala. As of 10 pm election night there are no write-in results that I can find.

  104. George Phillies

    Libertarian State Leadership Alliance
    National Conference – The Future of the Libertarian Political Movement
    Manchester, New Hampshire
    Sunday, May 28, 2017
    http://libertarianleaders.org/index.php/Conference

    Noon Keynote Speaker…Larry Sharpe
    After Dinner Speaker…Angela Keaton
    Michael Pickens will give an all-day candidate and training session.
    Wes Benedict will give a training session on Fundraising for Affiliates.

    9:00 AM until late evening
    3 meals served on-premises. Cash Bar at dinner.

    Breakfast 10 AM or before
    Two Morning Sessions
    Lunch 12 – 1:30 Lunch. Larry Sharpe, keynote speaker
    Four Afternoon Sessions
    5:30-6:30 interactions, Cash Bar
    6:30 dinner. Angela Keaton, keynote speaker.

    Three tracks:
    Track A Candidate and Activist Training
    Michael Pickens – Candidate and Activist Training – all day
    Wes Benedict – Fundraising for Affiliates – AM

    Track B Doing Politics
    Talking and Walking (tentative) What Real Elected Libertarians Have Done – AM
    Answering Questions (Mike Jingozian) – AM
    Reviving less active parties (Darryl Perry, Rodger Paxton, Jake Porter) – PM
    Outright Libertarians — Using FIJA to Protect Minorities (Mike Shipley) – PM
    Moving Parties to the next level (Jake Porter, David Traynor, Wes Benedict) – PM

    Track C Libertarianism
    Peace now! End the Warfare State (Angela Keaton, Will Hopkins, Patricia Lee, Bill Walker) – AM
    “Physically Removed, So To Speak”: Making the LP Inhospitable to the Alt-Right and Other Nazis. (Josh Katz, Jody Weissman, Leslee Petersen, Mike Shipley) – AM
    End the Surveillance State (George Phillies, Angela Keaton, Larry Sharpe) – PM
    Why Two Parties Guarantee Failure (Mike Jingozian) – PM

    The Executive Court Banquet Facility near the Manchester Airport
    Admission including meals $99

    To register by check: Mail your check payable “LSLA” to Bo Brown, 1201 Buckingham Station Drive, Apt 4D, Midlothian, VA 23113

    To Register via Paypal: Go to Paypal.org Our email address on PayPal is statechairs@gmail.com

  105. dL

    Not just anti LP, but definitely Alt-right.

    Prototypical white supremacy drivel w/ the usual whine that white christians are too emasculated and weak to culturally compete. A cursory google search on this turd indicates this really isn’t much of a 180 change in position. Social con.

  106. Andy

    “paulie
    March 25, 2017 at 14:55
    Altreich bullshit artists and conmen | Mike Cernovich and Stefan Molyneux”

    What exactly did they say in the video I posted above, entitled Left Wing Death Camps (like the Gulag system in the Soviet Union), that was not accurate?

  107. paulie

    Didn’t watch it, and don’t plan to. I’m commenting about the two of them in general. I don’t generally watch their crap. Seen more than enough of it already.

  108. paulie

    Besides, running up their view count only lends them more credibility to push the rest of their altreich garbage. The fewer people watch their videos the better.

  109. natural born citizen

    Hm.

    Mr Canoli takes pride in his own ignorance when smearing people and diverting discussion away from Soviet gulags.

    Interesting.

  110. natural born citizen

    I heard Roger Stone say a couple hours that he must testify tomorrow in a “nuisance suit” filed against him by “crackpot” Warren Redlich.

  111. paulie

    [In America, the notion that immigrants are a drain on social welfare programs is as popular as it is fallacious. Literally every credible study shows that compared to similarly situated natives, not only do fewer immigrants use welfare, but the average value of the benefits they receive is lower too, including for low-skilled immigrants (many of whom are undocumented). Indeed, the taxes and economic contributions of immigrants — including the low-skilled — dwarf what they consume in public services. This is partly because the 1996 welfare reform act barred immigrants from most means-tested benefits. But the bigger reason is that immigrants come to America for jobs, not welfare benefits. The labor force participation rate of foreign-born men in 2010 was 80.1 percent, a full 10 percentage points higher than that of native-born men. Furthermore, immigrants tend to gravitate to states with the lowest per capital welfare spending — maybe because they have more jobs.]

    http://reason.com/archives/2017/03/29/the-welfare-state

  112. paulie

    I think I finally figured it out. NBC wants to deflect attention away from Bencheeto Trumpolini being a warmongering piece of shit.

  113. dL

    So are we trying to advocate anarchy so all our roads will look that way?

    No roads in anarchy…no need, we’ll have flying cars

    #whereWeAreGoingThereWillAlwaysBeRoads

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