LIVE BLOGGING – LNC Meeting Kansas City, August 19-20, 2017

LIVE BLOGGING WILL START IN COMMENTS ONCE EVENTS COMMENCE.


UPDATE: First draft of minutes:
http://192.168.1.1:8181/http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business_hq.lp.org/attachments/20170825/4f32bcf4/attachment-0001.pdf

https://www.lp.org/event/lnc-meeting-2/:

Libertarian National Committee (LNC) quarterly business meeting

Who: LNC and some staff. All Libertarian Party members welcome to observe the business meeting.

Live Broadcast: The LNC will attempt to stream the meeting live on the Internet. Be advised that broadcast quality has sometimes been low and intermittent. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/libertarian-party1

Chair’s Proposed Agenda

2017-08-19_LNC_Meeting_Agenda_Proposed

Reports

2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_2016 Audit-Audited Financial Statements
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_2016 Audit-Board Disclosure Letter
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_2016 Audit-PostAudit-Financials-DRAFT1
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Campus_Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Chairs Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Convention_Committee_Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_EPCC_Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Financial_Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Historical_Preservation_Committee_Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_International_Rep_Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_IT_Committee_Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_IT_Presentation_Enabling_States_to_Grow
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_LNC_Policy_Manual
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Membership_Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Region_1_Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Region_2_Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Region_3_Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Region_5_Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Region_6_Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Region_7_Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Region_8_Report
2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Secretary_Report

The following “Giant Printed Handout” contains a selection of the reports above.

2017-08-19_LNC_Meeting_Giant_Printed_Handout

What: LNC Meeting 08/19-20

Where: Holiday Inn KCI Expo Center – 11728 NW Ambassador Drive – Kansas City, MO 64153 – http://www.kciexpo.com/

Room Rate: $110 Single King a night ($120 Doubles) & this includes free wifi in both sleeping & meeting rooms. Additionally they are providing free hot breakfast buffet.

Reservations: http://tinyurl.com/LPKC-0817 – enter in your dates & then click on “check availability” & the discount code (LIB) & IATA # (99801505) will auto fill. Rate good for Thu 08/17 thru Tue 08/22.

Or call 866.617.6369.and ask for the “LIB” Discount for the Libertarian National Committee room block.

Parking: Complimentary plus there is a free shuttle from/to KCI & also to Zona Rosa http://www.zonarosa.com/ or anywhere else within 4 miles

Meeting Time & Location: Missouri Ballroom on 1st Floor of Hotel – time TBD (but typically 9 am – 6 pm Sat & 9 am – 3 pm Sun). A light lunch will be served Sat around 12:15pm

Fri Night: Free Happy Hour provided by the hotel and KC CVB. Please meet in lobby 5 pm Fri 08/18 for a walk thru of the Expo Center followed by a complimentary happy hour after the tour.

Local Dining:

Burger Theory: At Hotel

Smoke House BBQ Bravo Cucina Italiana

Hereford House Abuelo’s 54th Street Bar & Grill Bo Lings Fat Fish Blue Mimi’s Cafe

O’Dowd’s On A Roll Cafe & Deli Tomfooleries Restaurant & Bar

Granite City Brewery

Local Area: http://www.kciexpo.com/about/area/

 

Full URL for reservations in case of issue opening the short version above: https://www.ihg.com/holidayinn/hotels/us/en/kansas-city/mkccr/hoteldetail?qAdlt=1&qBrs=6c.hi.ex.rs.ic.cp.in.sb.cw.cv.ul.vn.ki.sp.nd.ct&qChld=0&qFRA=1&qGRM=0&qGrpCd=LIB&qIta=99801505&qPSt=0&qRRSrt=rt&qRef=df&qRms=1&qRpn=1&qRpp=20&qSHp=1&qSmP=3&qSrt=sBR&qWch=0&srb_u=1&icdv=99801505

Please note: Your event attendance authorizes the Libertarian Party and its contractors, licensees, and assignees to: make recordings and reproduce, distribute for sale or otherwise make derivative works; transmit, display and publicly perform recordings, transcriptions and derivative works in any medium containing your image and/ or statements made at the event; telecast, air, and post all recordings and images on Libertarian Party, contractor, licensees and assignees websites, printed publications and any other publishing medium without any compensation or other benefits due.


386 thoughts on “LIVE BLOGGING – LNC Meeting Kansas City, August 19-20, 2017

  1. paulie

    I wish more people read the staff reports. It would cut out a lot of the questions and misconceptions I often see posed in comments here.

  2. Chuck Moulton

    I probably won’t be able to watch the meeting, so I hope other people liveblog it. I have a state committee meeting on Saturday… and I might even have to miss that too I have so much to do this week.

  3. Chuck Moulton

    Unfortunately the IT Committee report is the wrong attachment type, so it cannot be downloaded and read.

    http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business_hq.lp.org/2017/010164.html

    That the IT Committee couldn’t figure out how to attach a file does not give me confidence in their work product. It would be like if the Social Media Process Review Committee couldn’t figure out how to post to Facebook. If I were on the LNC, I would take a dim view on any requests for funds.

    I pointed out the problem to an IT Committee member and he basically told me the report was boring anyway.

  4. paulie

    p>Chair’s Proposed Agenda

    2017-08-19_LNC_Meeting_Agenda_Proposed

    Reports

    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_2016 Audit-Audited Financial Statements
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_2016 Audit-Board Disclosure Letter
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_2016 Audit-PostAudit-Financials-DRAFT1
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Campus_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Chairs Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Convention_Committee_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_EPCC_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Financial_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Historical_Preservation_Committee_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_International_Rep_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_IT_Committee_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_IT_Presentation_Enabling_States_to_Grow
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_LNC_Policy_Manual
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Membership_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Region_1_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Region_2_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Region_3_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Region_5_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Region_6_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Region_7_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Region_8_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Secretary_Report
    2017-18-19_LNC_Meeting_Staff_Report

  5. paulie

    Now coming to order. Sarwark thanks Sean O’Toole and Cisse Spraggins for hosting fundraiser and various people who donated large amounts. Public comments next.

  6. paulie

    No public comment. Credential report next. Redpath mentions an award Dr. Lark received which I did not catch the name of. Mentions he (Redpath) may have to leave early.

  7. paulie

    LNC welcomes new Region 7 alternate Erin Adams to what used to be the Paul Frankel seat (2012-4) and most recently Danny Bedwell’s

  8. paulie

    A bunch of clapping for something that I missed which had some kind of connection to Lee Wrights. As usual the sound is hard to moderate with some parts being painfully loud and others very hard to hear.

  9. paulie

    Mattson is one of those who is hard to hear but I believe she said she is moving to have credentials committee nominations as the last thing today with counting overnight.

  10. paulie

    18 changes in conflicts will be posted in minutes. Daniel Hayes reports involvement in committee to put city charter initiative in New Orleans to remove red light cameras. Harlos reports resigning from LPRC board. Jeff Hewitt – too quiet to make out. Something about Western Council of Governments and some LP caucus. Starchild no longer on LPCA exec comm, is now Vice Chair of LPSF and something or other with Audacious Caucus. Demarest … missed what he said while I was typing the previous. Bittner is county chair.

  11. paulie

    Is everyone having trouble hearing or is it okay?

    Most of it is OK. Some parts too quiet. Some parts too loud, especially clapping.

  12. paulie

    Benedict: Press Secretary will only be dealing with the press, not internal communications as a communication director would. Will try to hire one of those as well, but not yet.

  13. paulie

    Starchild wants to document all the ways government regulation compliance costs the LP. Tim Hagan believes it is too complex and time consuming to document.

  14. paulie

    Somehow I opened up the by author listing of the LNC list – was pulling up comments from months ago as if they were new. Not sure why or how I did that but I am pulling them.

  15. paulie

    Bette Rose saying they are already doing that to the state chairs list, but Starchild wants to send it to the whole membership list. Bette Rose says anyone can call the national office with that anytime. Missed who is talking now but said that it has been in LP news and elsewhere that we are looking for suggestions.

  16. Starchild

    Daniel Hayes talked about some speakers, including Joel (Tremmel?) who will talk about the role of the presidency (he is present and gave a short summary). Convention packages can be bought now at Libertarian.org, according to Nick Sarwark.

    I asked Bette Rose about outreach to LP membership list for 2020 convention site selection, that we might be able to find an LP member with land, etc., allowing us to have more of an outdoors-oriented festival-type convention that could attract a broader range of people and more interest than another typical hotel convention. Committee member Erin Adams said there was notice in LP News, etc., but they haven’t gotten much feedback as far as site suggestions. (If anyone reading here has ideas, please let the Convention Committee know!)

    Denver, Austin, Albuquerque, Baltimore, Atlanta, and Phoenix are the possible cities currently being considered for 2020 (May 19-26).

  17. paulie

    Was this the same list? Posted by Wes to LNC fairly recently

    [ ] Chicago
    [ ] Austin
    [ ] Ft. Lauderdale
    [ ] Phoenix
    [ ] Reno
    [ ] Atlanta
    [ ] Birmingham
    [ ] Manchester

  18. paulie

    Starchild suggests larger number of vendors by not charging them. Also asks Robert Kraus to forward unconventional convention suggestions to LNC list. Robert says not comfortable with that.

  19. Starchild

    I proposed the Convention Committee look at going for large numbers of vendors by not charging them for space, and instead raising money through attracting more attendees by offering this shopping experience, and that some of the vendors themselves would probably buy packages, meals, etc. Bette Rose said the committee would take it under consideration.

  20. Starchild

    Daniel Hayes says there’s a large space outside Storeyville in New Orleans available at the 2018 convention which could be used for a “freedom village” with space offered on a donation basis (pay what you think it’s worth to you).

  21. paulie

    Denver, Austin, Albuquerque, Baltimore, Atlanta, and Phoenix are the possible cities currently being considered for 2020 (May 19-26).

    Austin would be good, as Texas has not had one since the early 1970s and is a huge affiliate. Baltimore would also be good as it would keep staff travel cheap and the northeast states have not had one in 20 years plus by that point. Denver and Atlanta have already had national conventions recently so I would not put them high on the list.

  22. Starchild

    Jeff Hewitt made some terrific comments saying we need to attract more young people, referenced Coachella, Burning Man, etc., endorsed the ideas I’m talking about in terms of non-standard conventions, more like events.

  23. Starchild

    Aaron Starr is saying that celebrities cost money (we can’t incur huge expenses to attract people, and then not charge people much money to be at the event).

  24. Darryl W. Perry

    Baltimore is NOT in the Northeast… though I view it as preferable to something on the west coast, as it is driving distance to most on the east coast.

  25. paulie

    Jeff Hewitt made some terrific comments saying we need to attract more young people, referenced Coachella, Burning Man, etc., endorsed the ideas I’m talking about in terms of non-standard conventions, more like events.

    Yes… I was surprised to hear that from him.

    Starr pouring cold water on the idea, more predictably.

  26. paulie

    Baltimore is NOT in the Northeast… though I view it as preferable to something on the west coast, as it is driving distance to most on the east coast.

    Definitional. It’s part of the Boswash corridor. It’s included in some regional classifications as Northeast whereas some count it as part of a separate Mid-Atlantic region which other classifications do not have. It used to be considered part of the south more often but not so much lately. Certainly not like Atlanta, New Orleans, Birmingham or Texas or Florida.

  27. Starchild

    Joshua Katz spoke against general idea of festival-type convention, saying we’re talking about everything except our business sessions, that we want people to compete to be delegates. Bette Rose Ryan rebutted him, saying we already have delegates, and we have a firm cap on # of delegates at 1,050.

  28. paulie

    I don’t say this very often, but I agree with Joshua Katz about the purpose of conventions!

    Oops, sorry, I thought that was Starr. Sounded like Harlos also spoke against the festival idea.

    Redpath concerned about total cost and time involve with planning a larger event.

  29. Starchild

    Ken Moellman made excellent suggestion of adding a day to the convention, to give us time to make it more of an event without cutting into business sessions.

  30. Starchild

    Bill Redpath spoke in favor of eliminating mid-term conventions and having a convention only once every four years (I think this is an awful idea).

  31. Sam Goldstein

    Manchester was considered but did not make the final cut for several reasons. The list mentioned above from Wes Benedict was a fictional one to make a point, some of those cities didn’t even submit bids.

  32. Starchild

    Arvin Vohra speaking about power of our conventions deriving from boldness of ideas presented, not celebrities – they should not be the primary draw. That’s a “psychological discouragement” for what’s actually going to work.

  33. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Yes I did. I expressed that I am not a fan of the disparagement of the importance of business. We are not an entertainment company. We are a political party.

  34. paulie

    As far as I can remember this is the most serious and respectful consideration any LNC has ever given to Starchild’s ideas about unconventional convention sites.

  35. Starchild

    Wes: Some staff changes since last meeting. Eric Dixon is back on staff after a stint at a think tank. Eric has made some of our video compilations, does some editing, etc. Wes says having small staff means many are kind of jack-of-all-trades. Eric’s also taken on LP News, now that political director Carla Howell has departed.

  36. Starchild

    Wes: We got about 50 applications for the candidate support specialist position for which we’re seeking to hire someone; he and chair Nick Sarwark will be going through applications and conducting interviews. Briefly had someone helping with database stuff, but that didn’t last long as he got another job in New Mexico (I didn’t catch the name). Another development specialist person coming on to phone for membership renewals, etc., (Matt Dextin?) did a lot of this, but Wes is now using Matt a lot in the office, packing LP Store shipments, taking payments, etc. He’s a retired chemical engineer (over-qualified).

  37. Starchild

    Dr. Jim Lark asked about breakdown of donors (what portion of donations from small donors versus large donors). Lauren said a lot of people have been upgrading their donations.

  38. Starchild

    Aaron Starr requested that future reports of staff fundraising not include bequests, since staff don’t generate those. Aaron asking a lot of other questions about costs of different types of fundraising.

  39. Starchild

    Discussion of “wealth screening” – getting data on people’s estimated wealth (takes public records such as the value of people’s homes and analyzes it). Wes hasn’t felt paying for this data necessarily a good investment right now. I have concerns about trying to get this info on people.

  40. Starchild

    Wes says wealth-screening info will cost like $24,000. We paid $9,000 for list of 465,000 registered Libertarians nationwide. We haven’t mailed to them yet; Chuck Moulton wanted to buy the list for Pennsylvania, Wes said better to get all the data nationwide. Wes says cost of snail mail is running about $80 per new donor.

  41. Starchild

    I expressed concern about the “wealth-screening” concept. It seems like an unreasonable violation of donor privacy to try to collect this information.

  42. Starchild

    Wes’s suggestions to move $8000 from ballot access fundraising costs to membership costs, and $20,000 from compensation to media costs both passed without objection.

  43. Starchild

    Also passed without objection transfer of $20,000 from budget for compensation, to budget for candidate support, because position to be funded would be a contractor rather than staff (technical budget change).

  44. Starchild

    We’ve sent 100,000 letters to Johnson supporters; Wes would like to send 50,000 more to the Johnson list. Wes wants to put $50,000 into member prospecting letters, from other areas of the budget (membership dues and ___?) Expects to spend $50,000 to raise $10,000 to $15,000 above that.

  45. Starchild

    We’ve sent 100,000 letters to Johnson supporters; Wes would like to send 50,000 more to the Johnson list. Wes wants to put $50,000 into member prospecting letters, from other areas of the budget (membership dues and ___?) Expects to spend $50,000 to raise $10,000 to $15,000 above that.

    I have a problem with spending that amount to raise that amount, and feel that donors should be informed of such overhead.

  46. Starchild

    I tried to take money out of meeting expenses instead of out of LP News, to fund membership fundraising as requested by Wes, but motion was not seconded.

  47. Starchild

    Erin Adams (rightly!) questions return on investment for direct mail. Lauren Daugherty says she and Jess Mears will be looking at various options. Wes Benedict says we don’t have options that reliably work. He says prospecting to the Facebook group has been good.

  48. Starchild

    Motion now to increase membership fundraising by $50,000, membership dues by $20,000, and one other category in the budget – just passed.

  49. Caryn Ann Harlos

    I voted no because I agreed with Aaron Starr that this moving around the budget on paper to make us feel better is not appropriate even though we will have raised more. They should be done as separate motions to make it clear why and how we are doing this.

  50. Starchild

    Counsel Oliver Hall now giving report by phone. He notes that we were able to get Montana candidate Mark Wicks and Utah candidate in debates (as a result of sending legal letters?)

  51. Starchild

    Oliver says we are challenging the FEC’s interpretation of the law that prevents us from taking the entire sum of a bequest at once. Alan Gura is attorney representing us in that case. Oliver says we may file amicus brief in case in Ohio, where secretary of state is using voters not voting in 2 consecutive elections to start the process of purging them from the voter rolls. Plaintiffs won in 6th circuit, that this is a violation of voting rights, so case will now go to Supreme Court. Proposed amicus would likely focus on the fact that the right to vote also includes the right not to vote, and that persons who exercise that right should not be penalized.

  52. Starchild

    Oliver Hall also raises for consideration larger recurring issue of ability of petition circulators to do their jobs without being interfered with by state actors or employees of venues where we go to collect signatures. He says it’s often tempting to sue, but he says ballot access cases often very difficult to win, hard to put together logistically (who should be the proper party to be sued).

  53. Starchild

    Oliver thinks another approach would be to take an affirmative approach by writing to relevant persons (governor, attorney general, etc.) in every state; lay out case that petition circulating is 1st Amendment activity, ask the states to issue to us an official statement of their policy on petition circulation. Often people trying to deny petitioning rights don’t care about our letter (from the LNC) asserting the 1st Amendment rights of our circulators. If we don’t get a positive response from the state, could lay grounds for a lawsuit.

  54. Starchild

    Oliver Hall responded to my question about naming low-level employees who restrict petitioning as defendants; said this would be filing Section 1983 civil rights statute, basically going after people “acting under color of state law”; library employees might qualify, but a private security guard might not. They’d have to be working with state police for instance (simply calling the cops on a petitioner probably wouldn’t qualify, he said).

  55. Starchild

    Alicia Mattson asking Oliver Hall about “protecting party assets” (intellectual property, such as the party name and logo). Oliver asks whether we’ve filed to register the logo, and says he doesn’t think we have(?)

  56. Starchild

    Oliver will investigate whether logo falls under trademark or copyright (Michael Chastain thinks it would be under copyright). Oliver has talked with former LNC counsel Bill Hall.

  57. Starchild

    Nick Sarwark says he has some knowledge of IP issues; says we have not filed for a trademark on our new logo; you have to use a logo for a period of time in order to be eligible to do so; we probably can now. Nick says copyright is automatic when you create something, but you can get extra protections if you register. Brett Bittner says Michigan chair (former LNC counsel Bill Hall?) said in the past we would send cease-and-desist letters, but legal fees can pile up from actions beyond sending such letters. Feels we might violate autonomy of state affiliates if we get involved with licensing sub-entities; suggests we develop policy of usage.

  58. paulie

    Alicia Mattson expanding on her ideas about trademark/copyright protection from the email list.

    But at least some of her examples are party caucuses. How can LP tell caucuses not to use the party name?

  59. Starchild

    Alicia proposes motion to add language to LNC Policy Manual section 2.04.5, “Protecting Party Name”: “Party officers and staff shall work with legal counsel to ensure that the Libertarian Party name is used only by authorized entities.” Mattson says she’s not talking about international usage, selective enforcement, name use in casual conversation, etc., etc. Caryn Ann Harlos now speaking against.

  60. Starchild

    Whitney Bilyeu asks about word “authorized” – who would authorize? Also, “Libertarian Party Nudists Caucus” would be very different than “Nudists for the Libertarian Party”, for instance (where/how the term is used in a name matters).

  61. Andy

    “Starchild
    August 19, 2017 at 12:11
    Oliver Hall also raises for consideration larger recurring issue of ability of petition circulators to do their jobs without being interfered with by state actors or employees of venues where we go to collect signatures. He says it’s often tempting to sue, but he says ballot access cases often very difficult to win, hard to put together logistically (who should be the proper party to be sued).”

    Cases like this have been won by our side all over the country, including in Oliver’s home state of Massachusetts.

    I am glad to see somebody on the LNC actually addressing this issue, which I consider to be among the most important issues about which hardly anyone dares to speak.

  62. Starchild

    Nick Sarwark makes powerful arguments against the motion, says he’ll vote no. Says our claim is weak because others used the name Libertarian Party before we did. Putting “shalls” in the Policy Manual could cause problems if obligating us to enforce them.

    Aaron Starr asks why we even bothered registering a trademark, that we have to use it (defend it) or lose it. Daniel Hayes speaks in support of Nick. Larry does likewise, thinks it’s unenforceble.

  63. paulie

    Sharpe: How much time and energy will we spend on this

    Katz, Starr: We need to “use it or lose it” on enforcing our trademark; it’s in our bylaws

    Starchild: Bylaws do not say how it should be enforced. Bylaws committee should revise or get rid of the bylaw. Will be mostly enforced against our allies. Waste of resources. We are trying to control information too much.

  64. Starchild

    I spoke against; said we’d mostly end up enforcing against our own allies, people in our movement. Erin Adams made excellent point I made on the email list, that we should focus on fraud.

  65. Starchild

    Caryn Ann Harlos reiterates point she and I made on email about the LP not having a position in favor of intellectual property; she said the reason for trademarking our name is so someone else can’t tell us that we can’t use it.

  66. paulie

    You all skipped most of my comments ?

    Sorry. I was fending off Andy on another article. I’ll go to tape during lunch and summarize your remarks better.

  67. Andy

    Here is footage of me being illegally kicked out of a public festival that was happening at a public community college in Oklahoma City, back during the LP ballot access petition drive in the fall of 2015.

    Note that Paul and Kaye Matthews were also illegally run out of the same location.

    This should be a slam dunk lawsuit for our side.

    Here is the video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INWJB8Q2KFI&feature=em-upload_owner

  68. Starchild

    Roll call vote on Alicia Mattson’s motion:

    Vohra – abstain (acting as chair since Sarwark was debating)
    Sarwark – no
    Harlos – no
    Hagan – no
    Starchild – no
    Demarest – no
    Hewitt – yes
    Redpath – no
    Lark – no
    Katz – yes
    Hayes – yes
    Sharpe – no
    Marsh – no
    Bittner – no
    Goldstein – no
    Mattson – yes
    Bilyeu – no

    Motion failed 13-3 with 1 abstention.

  69. Starchild

    Sorry Caryn Ann – not intentional! Sometimes I get distracted by trying to listen, or just not being able to quickly/succinctly summarize. You can always post your own summary of course!

  70. Andy

    Here is footage of me being illegally kicked out of a public park in Oklahoma City where another public festival was happening. Note that before I started recording, Paul had shown the security guard papers with legal precedents on it that said that we did have a right to gather petition signatures there, but the security guard did not care, and he called the police anyway, and the police officer failed to live up to this oath to defend the Constitution, as he ran us out the that park, and we were threatened with arrest if he ever returned. Note that this was the busiest park in Oklahoma City, and they had festivals/events there just about every weekend until the weather got cold.

    Paul was also there, but he is not seen on the video.

    This should be another slam dunk lawsuit for our side. Check it out:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwlQXwFDLWg&feature=em-upload_owner

  71. paulie

    Roll call vote on Alicia Mattson’s motion:

    Vohra – abstain (acting as chair since Sarwark was debating)
    Sarwark – no
    Harlos – no
    Hagan – no
    Starchild – no
    Demarest – no
    Hewitt – yes
    Redpath – no
    Lark – no
    Katz – yes
    Hayes – yes
    Sharpe – no
    Marsh – no
    Bittner – no
    Goldstein – no
    Mattson – yes
    Bilyeu – no

    Motion failed 13-3 with 1 abstention.

    I believe Hayes was a no.

  72. Andy

    Here is something from Oliver Hall’s home state of Massachusetts.

    Malls, markets open to candidates seeking nominating signatures
    A Massachusetts ruling expands the rights of politicians on commercial private property.

    http://www.pressherald.com/2014/10/11/malls-markets-open-to-candidates/

    Now before anyone here freaks out and says, “Hey, that’s private property, you should not be able to collect petition signatures there if the property owners don’t want you there. That is not libertarian,” hear me out as to why that argument does not apply here.

    There big corporate stores/shopping centers are not really as private as most people think. They all receive various forms of corporate welfare, and a lot of these places are on land that was seized through Eminent Domain, which is supposed to be for public use. A lot of these stores participate in various government welfare programs, especially stores that sell food, as they process food stamps/EBT cards (note that Walmart is the #1 profiteer off of food stamps in the country).

    If you start to look into the issues of government Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports, you will find that government entities have lots of money invested in corporate stocks, bonds, and real estate, and that government entities actually own shares of all of the big, publicly traded corporations, including big store chains like Walmart, Target, Safeway, Kroger, Home Depot, etc… I’m talking about school districts, water districts, port authorities, toll authorities, state universities, etc…, and the biggest one is probably the government employee pension funds. They also own real estate, and I have found out that there are shopping centers out there that are owned, in part, or in full in some cases, by government entities (note that they may own it through a shell corporation).

    It is not uncommon to see local police officers just hanging around at some of these big corporate stores/shopping centers, like Walmarts, etc… This begs the question of form whom do the police work, the public, or are they working as security guards for Walmart?

    Also, there have been multiple court rulings that have said that people do not give up their constitutionally enumerated rights when they enter corporate property that is open to the public.

    So yes, I believe that these stores/shopping centers ought to be fair game for petition signature gathering or voter registration activity (they already are in 3 or 4 states), and no, I do not believe that this violates any libertarian principles, for the reasons I mentioned above.

  73. Andy

    Oh, in terms of suing a security guard, or anyone else who is not an official government employee for interfering with petition signature gathering, this can be done. It does not matter if the person doing the interfering is an official government employee or not, it is still illegal, and they can be held liable for it.

  74. Andy

    Just to clarify the Massachusetts case above, it had already been long established before this in Massachusetts that people could gather petition signatures or voter registrations at stores/shopping centers/malls. The issue at hand here was whether or not a person could do it at a stand alone store, as in a store that was not connected to a shopping center or a mall. That had been an issue of controversy for several years in Massachusetts, until this court case happened, which said that people could gather signatures on petitions or do voter registration in front of stand alone stores.

    Once again, keep in mind that all of these big corporate stores are in bed with the state, so it is not like they are as “private” as they claim to be.

  75. Andy

    “There big corporate stores/shopping centers ”

    Should read, “The big corporate stores/shopping centers..”

  76. Caryn Ann Harlos

    It would have been a nightmare if that passed. It would have been red meat to trolls.

  77. paulie

    Starchild asks if confidential portion of report can be made public. Fox replies it is considered confidential financial information by the auditor.

  78. Starchild

    The written auditors’ report distributed to us was marked “confidential”, but in asking Julie Fox about that, I got it clarified that this is not binding on us, and it’s up to us to distribute or not as we choose. I asked that they make that clear in the future if they are auditors for us again, and also as a stylistic matter not to use the phrase “Board of Directors” in reference to the LNC, as we are a political party committee, not a corporate board of directors.

  79. Starchild

    Andy – Oliver Hall during his counsel’s report gave the opinion, if I understood him correctly, that party petitioners aren’t facing that many problems such as you’ve cited. I’m wondering if you were able to hear his remarks, if the Livestream feed was up then, and if so, whether you care to provide a written response?

  80. paulie

    Sarwark asks everyone to keep confidential portion of audit report confidential. Will be addressed with a motion tomorrow. Affiliate support committee is next.

  81. Starchild

    It was agreed we’ll vote tomorrow on making the draft auditor’s report public, after people have had a chance to read it. Not that it appears to contain anything super interesting or important, but I made the argument that documents should be public by default, not secret by default.

  82. paulie

    #Reregister month in September. Voter registration for LP has doubled in 9 years. Up 5x since 1992. 20 states participating in reregister month.

  83. Michael H Wilson

    Andy writes; “So yes, I believe that these stores/shopping centers ought to be fair game for petition signature gathering or voter registration activity (they already are in 3 or 4 states), and no, I do not believe that this violates any libertarian principles, for the reasons I mentioned above.”

    Andy, I have worked for a couple of those big chain stores and in one case we had people collecting signatures and never had a problem from them. Amazingly the fire inspector showed up a couple of times as did a building inspector a few weeks later. My boss came out after talking to one of the inspectors and told me never to allow anyone to collect signatures again by our front door. He didn’t need the problems. Think what you wish of that.

  84. Starchild

    Now discussing Puerto Rico. Nick Sarwark recently went and spoke at a conference there. Daniel Hayes makes the point we need a Spanish translation of our platform if we’re trying to recruit members there.

  85. paulie

    Awards committee. Has not been filled but Dr. Lark is “bridge” from past to future committee. Recommends committee be created at the next meeting.

    Employee policy and compensation committee next, also Dr. Lark.

  86. Andy

    Starchild, Oliver Hall obviously does not have much experience in ballot access. These problems happen frequently.

    Also, keep in mind that most of the problems that happen do not get reported to anyone in a political organization.

  87. Starchild

    Ken Moellman and Andy Burns now presenting proposed CIVICRM open-source software plan for membership database. Sounds pretty good (would apparently save much money over current approach), but devil in the details? Robert Perry (in gallery) saying don’t try to allow individuals access to their own database entries right away, or might jeopardize member privacy. I suggested do give them this editing access, but also don’t collect certain data on individuals (e.g. via “wealth screening”) to begin with unless they opt in.

  88. Starchild

    Bylaws Committee will be meeting the weekend of Sept. 16-17, 2017 (Saturday and Sunday), at Fairfield Inn & Suites at Kansas City airport.

  89. Starchild

    Bylaws chair Joshua Katz said his committee still won’t make minutes of secret meeting public. He objected to the transparency issue being used as a “political wedge” and suggested that people are evaluating proposals based on who made them rather than on their merits. I said that suggests we (the LNC) should all be meeting with bags over our heads, so nobody knows who we are and can’t judge our ideas based on that. (Obviously being sarcastic – I strongly support transparency.)

  90. paulie

    LPOH has taken over core operations of the drive. Asking for another 40k but don’t anticipate needing all of that. VA, NJ have retention races this year. NJ is not possible. VA has a high bar – 10% for Governor. TN and AL are the only other states that could be done this calendar year.

  91. Starchild

    Platform Committee chair Alicia Mattson said Feb. 28, 2018 is the deadline for Platform Committee reps. to report (state affiliate parties to name their reps). I asked whether she would allow the committee members to vote on wording of the survey that goes out and allow the response data to be shared unless people request privacy. Alicia said survey is just the committee’s proposals, but I pointed out that how the questions are worded can be leading and biased. She said I want the committee to argue against its own proposals; I said no, I just want the surveys to be neutral. She said they are an “advocacy committee” (i.e. the survey will NOT be neutral). She did not address the request for data sharing, and the chair stopped me from further questions, ruling the “back and forth” out of order.

  92. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Colorado’s Platform Committee appointee will be sent with explicit instructions NOT to obey any secrecy provision. Colorado has a right to information from its own appointee. I encourage other states to do the same.

    (Colorado also just voted *without any objection* to move its Board emails to a public list.)

  93. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Colorado will not be making its Platform Committee appointment until later in the year, partly due to the issues that have happened with the Bylaws committee. Our sentiment is that secret (or attempted secret) committees should have less time to cook up changes for the sake of change.

  94. paulie

    Redpath moves to increase budget by 32.5k (7.5k savings on Arkansas to be applied to the rest of the 40k). Bittner seconds.

  95. paulie

    Ken expects Ohio to meet 80k of their 100k commitment. Says their level of volunteering and fundraising is picking up.

  96. paulie

    Redpath: more Ohioans need to volunteer to petition. Wrote a letter for LPOH and volunteered to make calls and hasn’t heard back from them.

  97. paulie

    Harlos – Ohio should step up more, not in the interest of her region to pour a bunch of money into ballot access elsewhere especially if they do not meet commitments. Wants to delay vote to tomorrow to poll state chairs in her region; Lark agrees. Bilyeu points out sunk costs. Hewitt questions wisdom of taking on Ohio Republicans. Postponed til tomorrow morning (10 votes for postponing).

  98. paulie

    I forgot to mention, I believe Redpath pointed out someone formerly involved with Ohio LP misled them on financial commitments so it was not the fault of the whole LPOH. Tennessee presentation has started.

  99. paulie

    Couldn’t hear all the numbers. About 33.5k valid needed. TN has pledged $30k plus [x] volunteer sigs, about 6k sig gathered already. Working on legislative signatures also. Looking for matching funds from LNC. Will not need them if ballot access bill passes. However Ken does not believe they will act until/unless we file. Sarwark impressed with their commitment. Ken says the same.

  100. Andy

    Michael Wilson, a person standing outside a storefront gathering petition signatures is not a fire hazard. That is absurd. I have done this many times.

  101. paulie

    Ken says TN has been doing everything they can and everything they have promised. We need to encourage other states to work as hard.

  102. paulie

    Ed Marsh moves to budget 67 K for TN. Question over 2017 or 2018 which I did not hear really answered, Sarwark clarifies 2017, says we will need a lot of money for other states next year and does not trust the legislature.

  103. paulie

    Lark: Cut somewhere else?

    Sarwark: confident in our fundraising.

    Goldstein: Ask Daugherty whether TN works with fundraising plan. She says yes.

  104. paulie

    Starr: do we have the cash flow to support the increased spending?

    Sarwark: yes but speed of drive may have to be moderated.

  105. Starchild

    Motion to give $67,000 to Tennessee LP for ballot access drive passes unanimously (14-0), with Alicia Mattson abstaining and Arvin Vohra not voting, after presentation by Justin ___ (not sure last name) from Tennessee. Consensus was that the party there had skin in the game and was doing what they ought to be doing, and deserved our support.

  106. paulie

    Katz, Mattson want to reconsider moving money from ballot access fundraising to membership fundraising, passed earlier today.

  107. Starchild

    Motion to reconsider previous decision moving money from one category (ballot access) to another (membership) in the budget passed 13-2 with 1 abstention. I believe Tim Hagan and Daniel Hayes were the “no” votes and Alicia Mattson abstained.

  108. Starchild

    Now discussing LP Historical Preservation Committee (committee chair Caryn Ann Harlos presenting). She has several motions. First is to give permission to Lyricist to list the LP in its digital preservation collaborative. Adopted without objection.

  109. paulie

    Motion to allow Lyricis (sp?) to list us a participant in its digital collaboration project passed without objection

  110. paulie

    Authorize LPHPC to keep up to 3 copies of each LP News issue and dispose of others and to keep proceeds of sale; will also try to donate to other archives. Starr says FEC issues.

  111. Starchild

    Motion to allow LPHPC to retain 3 copies of each LP News issue and sell the remainder, in compliance with FEC regulations. Passes without objection.

  112. paulie

    Passes without objection.

    Last motion is to allow LPHPC to dispose of utility, rent or related bills that are 3 years or older.

  113. Starchild

    Brett Bittner now presenting on Social Media Review Committee.

    He said they found that our social media assets haven’t evolved with growth of our party to meet current demand. Said they feel that there’s been a lack of leadership, need for a unified structure. They interviewed various volunteers about practices, took suggestions. Said there’s no onboarding process for volunteers, no posting guidelines, no titles (can be more important than compensation). Said there’s no official policy on replying to direct messages when speaking in the party’s voice, etc.

  114. Andy

    Where is the motion to file lawsuits in Oklahoma and Arkansas over petition circulators being illegally run out of locations that carry public foot traffic?

  115. Starchild

    Motion by Aaron Starr passed to put Social Media Committee’s recommendations 1-6 in the form of directing staff to do these things. I didn’t get the roll call votes, but I voted no. There were several abstentions including Caryn Ann Harlos and Whitney Bilyeu; I think everyone else voted yes.

  116. paulie

    Last item, considering rules for vote on credential committee. Voting will take place overnight and tabulated in the morning.

  117. Michael H Wilson

    Andy wrote; “Michael Wilson, a person standing outside a storefront gathering petition signatures is not a fire hazard. That is absurd. I have done this many times.”

    Gee Andy, I think I knew that, but an inspector may have other ideas. Someone at the fire department may have heard some libertarian talk about private fire departments and wish to keep their job. If you knew something about how local politics can work you’ll know these things happen.

    Btw Andy, I ran for office and criticized the zoning and six months later I was fired from my job. It seems the owner of the company I worked for was tight with the city council and they didn’t take kindly to my criticism of the zoning process.

  118. Andy

    Micahel Wilson, I have done lots of petitioning in front of stores in Washington, California, Colorado, Massachusetts, and some other states. I have been at stores when insoectors were there, as well as police, fire fighters, and ambulances. Anyone who says that a petitioner in front of a store is a fire hazard is an idiot or a liar, or both. Either way, they do not have a legal leg on which to stand.

  119. Chuck Moulton

    Starchild wrote:

    Said they feel that there’s been a lack of leadership, need for a unified structure.

    I read the Social Media Process Review Committee Report. It is quite sad that libertarians are so in love with hierarchical structures and seem ignorant of spontaneous order and other non- centralized ways of organizing things.

  120. Chuck Moulton

    Starchild wrote:

    The new press director Richard Fields will be working from his home in California, as a contractor rather than a staff member.

    That is ridiculous. Moving goalposts… I was told Rachel Mills was out of contention because she wouldn’t move to DC, then they pick someone else not in DC.

  121. Chuck Moulton

    Starchild wrote:

    We paid $9,000 for list of 465,000 registered Libertarians nationwide. We haven’t mailed to them yet; Chuck Moulton wanted to buy the list for Pennsylvania, Wes said better to get all the data nationwide.

    Unfortunately I didn’t get the list in time to do the sort of large scale 2017 local candidate recruitment I had hoped for. Pennsylvania will be promoting write-ins for 2017 though, recruiting aggressively for state legislature in 2018, and trying to get registered libertarians more involved.

    The list would have cost Pennsylvania about half of what Wes paid for a nationwide list, so economies of scale helped. I’m told several other states (e.g., Kentucky) will make good use of the data.

  122. Carol Moore/Secession.net

    Good that they aren’t sic-ing the state on people for use of the name. I still think an FYI LP.org page on relation of different types of groups to LP itself, including those calling selves caucus or “council” or whatever would help.

    Per the above, sections 1-6 of Social Media Process Review Committee report passed. Just copied them below.

    http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business_hq.lp.org/attachments/20170819/27aa5a11/attachment-0001.pdf

    1) The LNC is recommended to commission the creation of an on-boarding process for all
    new volunteers with clear titles, responsibilities and goals attached to that position. Current
    positions for Facebook, for instance, are the creative team as well as the publishing team.
    2) The LNC is recommended to select a point person whose duty it is to create a
    management hierarchy within the social media team(s) with a clear structure with specific
    duties, authority and responsibilities.
    3) The LNC is recommended to appoint an ultimate arbiter for social media decisions which
    would also include pulling content that could be rogue or potentially damaging. We
    recommend the Press Secretary should fill this position.
    4) The LNC is recommended to create, or appoint a point person or group, to create clear
    guidelines for replying to user comments and private messages.
    5) The LNC is recommended to create, or appoint a point person or group, to create clear
    policy for handling HR related concerns.
    6) The LNC is recommended to create, or appoint a point person or group, to create team
    leaders who will oversee setting the direction of the social media marketing strategies which
    are in line with current Libertarian Party outreach and political goals.
    7) The LNC is recommended to create, or appoint a point person or group to create, a
    three-step process for publishing of social media content. Comprised of teams. Separate
    leadership for each group. Reproduce for all social media.

  123. Chuck Moulton

    Did they even discuss the credentials committee applicants at all (like they did for platform and bylaws)?

    What questions did Caryn Ann Harlos ask of applicants?

    I’ll put in a plug for Mike Kane and Emily Salvette, both of whom are hard workers who deserve to be on that committee.

  124. Chuck Moulton

    Thanks to Paulie and Starchild and others for the liveblogging! I was able to get a good sense of the meeting without listening to it — after wading through all of Andy’s off-topic comments.

  125. Andy

    It would be nice if the LNC and people like Chuck would get off their fucking asses and actually do something about the petitioner access to locations, which has plagued the LP for years, and caused multiple LP candidate to not make the ballot, and has cost the LP a lot of money doing expensive last minute saved. The LP can piss $10,000 away on some asshole Republican con-artist in the Nevada State Ligislature (plus a lot more than that if you factor in the other donors who were directed to donate to this clown) who pretended to be a Libertarian so he could bilk Libertarians for money, after which he squandered the money and cast two horrible anti-liberty votes in the legislature, which got bad legislation passed, and generated negative publicity for the LP. Nobody even bothered to properly vet this jackass before sending him money.

    I could go on with more examples, but it is rather sad how the party will spend money on things that accomplish little or nothing, but nobody will lift a finger to battle for petitioner access rights so we can talk to the public and get our candidates on the ballot without being threatened or arrested by the government goons. There are other groups out there who have fought this stuff, but the organization that is supposedly the most pro-freedom organization in the country, and which has a direct vested interest in this, rolls over and does nothing.

    Keep spending time on frivolous crap if you want, I will focus on real world politics.

  126. paulie

    I read the Social Media Process Review Committee Report. It is quite sad that libertarians are so in love with hierarchical structures and seem ignorant of spontaneous order and other non- centralized ways of organizing things.

    Yep!

  127. paulie

    Anyone who says that a petitioner in front of a store is a fire hazard is an idiot or a liar, or both. Either way, they do not have a legal leg on which to stand.

    Only if reasonable people are in charge of the legal process. That can’t be counted on.

  128. paulie

    It would be nice if Andy didn’t pollute every thread with off-topic comments.

    In this case they related to the special counsel’s report.

  129. Chuck Moulton

    The LP doesn’t need its counsel suing stores and policemen. What it needs is a network of volunteer lawyers in each state willing to donate some pro bono time. But that is completely irrelevant to the actual problem I highlighted, which is off-topic spam.

    Unfortunately, it will be hard to get volunteers willing to work with caustic spammers like Andy who waste everyone’s time and hold a lot of un-libertarian positions. If we had more polite, concise, libertarian petitioners, it would be far easier to put together an attorney volunteer team.

  130. paulie

    Per the above, sections 1-6 of Social Media Process Review Committee report passed. Just copied them below.

    Passed, except ‘staff’ rather than LNC.

  131. Michael H. Wilson

    Andy the fire inspectors don’t go after the petitioner. They just make a few more than usual inspections of the buildings and look extra hard for violations and then make the manager life a hell.

  132. paulie

    Did they even discuss the credentials committee applicants at all (like they did for platform and bylaws)?

    Very briefly right at the end, maybe 5 minutes.

    What questions did Caryn Ann Harlos ask of applicants?

    Dunno, they were in her written report which only went to LNC members so I did not get one.

  133. George Phillies

    Disposing of old software is a massively bad idea.

    As a grammatical form “the LNC is recommended…” is someplace in the range “Not even wrong”.

  134. paulie

    Sean O’Toole lnc at seanot.com

    Dear fellow LNC members,

    There was not enough time to address questions (if any) on the candidate database project of which I spoke prior to the presentation on the state CRM. If you have questions, please ask away.

    Additionally, your help would be greatly appreciated in helping to promote this project as an open source project. Interested developers can access the project at https://gitlab.com/libertarians/oss/candidate_db

    Thank you,
    __________________
    Sean O’Toole
    Treasurer – Missouri Libertarian Party

  135. paulie

    lnc-votes@hq.lp.org via googlegroups.com
    8:24 AM (1 hour ago)

    to LNC-Business Unsubscribe
    I received this from Mr. Frye last night.

    Tim Hagan
    Begin forwarded message:

    On Saturday, August 19, 2017, 10:50 PM, Mark Frye, CPA wrote:

    Robert – the management letter and board disclosure letter are restricted communications between the auditor and management (i.e., those charged with governance). I agree with Aaron and don’t believe they should be made public as the casual reader is not privy to the context in which the comments and recommends were made and they can easily be misconstrued or used for inappropriate purposes. However, they should be communicated and vetted to management and the board-at-large so that varied opinions and solutions can be considered that are acceptable to those charged with governance. FYI.

    Mark Frye, CPA, CGFM

    Director of Assurance Services

    Frye & Company, CPAs

  136. paulie

    Ken Moellman from LNC list:

    If there’s anyone in the organization who wants to learn ballot access, I’m
    happy to train them up on what I know. I don’t claim to have all the
    answers, but I’m happy to get more people spun-up so we can be
    multi-threaded.

    ken

  137. paulie

    Moellman in opposition. LP’s role is to run the presidential ticket, help states do better, provide tools, let donors decide themselves what candidates to fund. Not directly fund candidates. Good candidates can fundraise themselves.

  138. paulie

    Demarest: Starchild’s proposal makes it less ad hoc, supports.

    Chastain: Opposes Starchild’s proposal. Likes Goldstein’s proposal better. Neutral on it.

  139. paulie

    Redpath: disagrees with the idea that we need to counterbalance states that get ballot access funds with direct support for candidates, says we all gain from LP being on the ballot everywhere and ballot access IS candidate support. Once we have a candidate support committee candidates will line up. We don’t have enough money. Status quo is better than either proposal, Goldstein’s is better than Starchild’s which Redpath says is unworkable. OK on case by case basis such Mark Miller in TX which was a ballot access race. Teach our candidates to fish rather than give them a fish.

  140. paulie

    Hayes: support Goldstein motion but moves to amend to strike last two paragraphs. Seconded (I missed by whom). Create the criteria but leave the LNC in charge of case by case decisions.

  141. paulie

    Hewitt: Candidates have to have staff. Likes Goldstein proposal. Don’t be afraid to be hated because we can’t give to most of the candidates who ask.

  142. paulie

    Sharpe: teach people to fish. Not asking money for his own campaign. Would be OK with nothing on Goldstein proposal.

  143. paulie

    Starr: Success 97 and 99 were better as seminars to teach candidates and activists as opposed to direct contributions to candidates. Vote no on both proposals and reinstitute training.

  144. paulie

    Sarwark: Guidance does not mean we have to spend money. Likes the idea of training events. Guidelines may be useful for the new campaign support staffer. Committee can do other things besides disburse money. Vote on Goldstein motion is next.

  145. Starchild

    Sorry have been forgetting to blog here, too absorbed in the proceedings this morning. Now voting on Goldstein proposal for candidate/campaign support.

  146. paulie

    Sorry have been forgetting to blog here, too absorbed in the proceedings this morning.

    Nothing to be sorry about. LNC duties take precedence in importance over LNC liveblogging. Personally I was never able to do both at the same time effectively so kudos for being able to multitask like that at all.

  147. Andy

    “paulie
    August 20, 2017 at 09:52
    Redpath: disagrees with the idea that we need to counterbalance states that get ballot access funds with direct support for candidates, says we all gain from LP being on the ballot everywhere and ballot access IS candidate support. ”

    Some states have easier ballot access than others. The last time that the Libertarian Party had to do a paid petition drive in Colorado was back in the 1980’s. Most of the states that have more difficult ballot access laws would not be able to get on the ballot, and therefore not be able to grow their state party (few people are inspired to join a party that does not have candidates on the ballot), without help from Libertarians in others states. This does not mean that the people in the states that have more ballot access laws should sit back and do nothing, as they should obviously be active participants in gaining ballot access in their own state, but the fact remains that most of these states will not make it without help from Libertarians around the country.

  148. paulie

    As a reminder, http://www.ustream.tv/channel/libertarian-party1 has the meeting video archived in chunks. If anyone who was not able to watch/listen to the proceedings as they are happening wants to go over that and add or correct my notes you are welcome and encouraged to do so. The same goes for anyone who is there in person and too busy to help us liveblog, but has time and inclination to help with that after the fact.

  149. paulie

    Some states have easier ballot access than others. The last time that the Libertarian Party had to do a paid petition drive in Colorado was back in the 1980’s. Most of the states that have more difficult ballot access laws would not be able to get on the ballot, and therefore not be able to grow their state party (few people are inspired to join a party that does not have candidates on the ballot), without help from Libertarians in others states. This does not mean that the people in the states that have more ballot access laws should sit back and do nothing, as they should obviously be active participants in gaining ballot access in their own state, but the fact remains that most of these states will not make it without help from Libertarians around the country.

    I think everyone knows that. What a lot of LP members in states where they already have easy ballot access are saying is that they don’t care. They consider that to be the problem of those other states that don’t have ballot access and don’t see much point in donating to the LNC to help those other states. Redpath was addressing that mindset. I think he is correct. But there is no denying that this mindset exists.

  150. paulie

    Credentials committee results being announced.

    Bachrach 14, Salvette 12, Hogarth 12, Linnabary 9 – elected

    I was not able to keep up with the rest.

  151. Starchild

    Sorry have been forgetting to blog here, too absorbed in the proceedings this morning. Goldstein proposal for creating a candidate/campaign support committee was adopted. Most of the LNC didn’t like my proposal to put candidate/campaign funding in the hands of the state affiliate parties.

    Now back from recess. Credentials Committee results announced; Jeff Hewitt’s ballot was not turned in and did not get counted due to a misunderstanding. Appointed to the committee and number of votes:

    Ben Bachrach – 14
    Susan Hogarth – 12
    Emily Salvette – 12
    Steven Linnabary – 9

    Now voting on the 5th spot since none of the other candidates got a majority in approval voting (David Stewart was the next runner-up with 7 votes, but Caryn Ann Harlos’s motion to appoint him, with my second, failed on a roll call vote).

  152. Starchild

    Remaining Credentials Committee vote recipients were as follows:

    David Stewart – 7
    Mike Kane – 6
    Howard Wetsman – 5
    Roland Riemers – 4
    Robert Lorrah – 4
    Richard Fast – 4
    Joseph Wendt – 4
    Tom Maciejewski – 4
    James Logan – 3
    Paul Stanton – 3
    Lee Santos – 2
    James Harrison – 2
    John Pierce – 2
    Maurice Dunn – 1
    Carlos Saavedra – 1
    Kameron Richards – 1
    James Pruden – 1
    Benjamin Arnold – 1
    Brendan O’Sullivan – 0
    hane Burton – 0
    Norman Burden – 0
    Aaron Fansler – 0

  153. Steve Scheetz

    In Montgomery County, PA, Republicans Worked to Disenfranchise Voters. Our candidates followed the rules as spelled out when possible. (one could not turn in his statement of financial interest to the township because the township did not have any mechanism to accept such a document… he was challenged on that.)

    I am posting this, because it is being discussed at the LNC meeting right now, and I know that there are many in the same boat all across the nation.

    I am proposing that it would be VERY prudent to create a group, independent of the LNC whose purpose is to help candidates deal with challenges. I am planning on creating such a group, whose members would include individuals from across the nation, and having a meeting at some point during the time we will be together at NOLA 2018.

    To be discussed will be the scope, i.e. regular training seminars, collecting money to pay for ballot access challenges, creating a database of attorneys willing to take up such cases around the nation, and to basically be a resource for candidates. The LNC has enough to do, Libertarians can step up and make this work. We need something like this, and obviously, any Libertarian willing to work with me on it I will be more than proud to work with.

    Sincerely,

    Steve Scheetz

  154. Starchild

    Lauren Daugherty says majority of items submitted to the Advertising & Publications Review Committee during the past year have come from her; she says waiting for a needed third vote from the committee has often delayed publication unnecessarily.

    Issue in question here is Alicia Mattson’s agenda item challenging 4th and 5th members of the committee’s votes not counting if 3 members have already voted to approve something.

  155. paulie

    Chair’s ruling sustained 9-5 as I understood it. It was not very easy to hear. Some abstentions, I believe Lark was one of them.

  156. paulie

    The ruling sustained that the previous directive was not against the rules. Now will vote on rescinding the directive.

  157. Starchild

    David Stewart is appointed to the 5th LNC-appointed seat on the Credentials Committee, with 9 votes on the second ballot. Second ballot runner-up Mike Kane with 8 votes is appointed as 1st alternate to the committee. Totals for others were not read or displayed, but will be in the LNC meeting minutes.

  158. Starchild

    There was a whole discussion about the Advertising & Publications Review Committee, and the disclosure that there were rules which had been kept secret as far as APRC procedures, and these have now been sent to the LNC list. Eventually the whole discussion was postponed indefinitely (to be taken up via email?) on a motion by Jim Lark.

  159. paulie

    http://ballot-access.org/2017/08/20/libertarian-party-will-attempt-tennessee-party-petition-for-the-first-time/

    On August 20, the Libertarian Party national committee voted to help the Tennessee Libertarian Party get on the ballot for the 2018 election. This will be the first time the Libertarian Party has made a serious attempt to qualify as a party in Tennessee. The procedure, a petition signed by a number of voters equal to 2.5% of the last gubernatorial vote, is so difficult, no group has successfully used that procedure since 1968. In 1968 the American Party completed the petition, to place George Wallace on the ballot. Back in 1968 Tennessee didn’t permit independent presidential candidates, so Wallace was forced to do the party petition, which was then 5%.

    Bills are pending in the Tennessee legislature to ease the procedure. Thanks to Independent Political Report for this news.

  160. Starchild

    I abstained on the ruling of the chair on Alicia Mattson’s issue; both sides made good points, and the issue was very complex; I was not certain enough of the correct position to vote.

  161. Andy

    Paul said: “I think everyone knows that. What a lot of LP members in states where they already have easy ballot access are saying is that they don’t care. They consider that to be the problem of those other states that don’t have ballot access and don’t see much point in donating to the LNC to help those other states. Redpath was addressing that mindset. I think he is correct. But there is no denying that this mindset exists.”

    I think that this is the wrong mindset to have. The LP has not had to do a ballot access drive in Indiana since ’91-’92, Michigan since around 2001-2002, Texas since 2004, and North Carolina since 2004-2008. These are all difficult states in which to obtain ballot access, and I don’t think that any of those drives would have been successful without assistance from Libertarians in other states. Should Libertarians in these states say, “Well, we have ballot access now, so screw all of those Libertarians who lives in states that do not have ballot access.” If that same attitude had been given to them, they would not have ballot access right now.

    Just because it has been a long time since the Libertarian Party has had to do a ballot access drive in Nevada or South Carolina or Colorado or Idaho or Montana, it does not mean that it is wise for Libertarians in those states to say the heck with Libertarians in states that do not have ballot access.

    The LP did a big paid voter registration drive in California back in the late around 1978 or ’79 to 1980, to gain ballot access there, and I think they continued paying for registration to retain ballot access into the early 1980’s. I doubt that the LP of CA would have obtained enough voter registrations to gain party status in CA without help from Libertarians in other states. Unfortunately, Top Two Primary was passed their in June of 2010, and since implemented, it has made it difficult for Libertarians in California to make it on the general election ballot for partisan offices, with the exception of President, and that’s only because the office of President has been exempted from Top Two Primary. It is possible that if more Libertarians around the nation had donated to the Stop Top Two effort in California back in 2010, that it never would have passed. There is now a ballot initiative in the works to Repeal Top Two Primary, and this is something that Libertarians around the country ought to support, because if it passes, it will give the LP of CA a chance to reinvigorate itself, which will mean more dues paying Libertarians in California, which will mean more money for the LNC.

    Libertarians being kept off the ballot in any state has a negative effect on the entire party.

  162. paulie

    Several people pointed out that many members’ expectations are unrealistic when they join. Starchild suggests making LP website more interactive.

  163. Caryn Ann Harlos

    I was addressing the reality of my region. I have 9 states.

    And national has never had to obtain ballot access for Colorado. We are fortunate to have the easiest ballot access laws.

    It’s easy to judge but I certainly understand when a top 10 BSM member state asks why send the money out of state? We have n ends here in CO.

  164. Starchild

    We’re now discussing two different versions of Arvin Vohra’s motion on withdrawing from NATO. Sam Goldstein just managed to get the weaker, less detailed version of the resolution adopted as the main motion (9-5 vote), after my amendment of both versions to refer to “the U.S. government” rather than simply “the U.S.” and related stylistic changes, was adopted.

  165. Andy

    “paulie
    August 20, 2017 at 12:02
    Several people pointed out that many members’ expectations are unrealistic when they join. Starchild suggests making LP website more interactive.”

    I agree about the unrealistic expectations of new(er) members, and I think that this is one of the main reasons why some of them end up quitting. I have encountered people who think that the Libertarian Party presidential ticket actually stands a legitimate chance of winning. Fortunately, I was never that naive, even when I joined back in 1996. I will admit that I had hoped that Harry Browne would break the 1 million vote barrier (if he had not had to run against Ross Perot and Ralph Nader in 1996, and Ralph Nader and Pat Buchanan in 2000, for the “third party” and independent vote, he would have had a far better chance at achieving this), and in 2004, I thought that Michael Badnarik was going to break 500,000 votes. but I was never foolish enough to think that the LP presidential ticket ever had a legitimate shot at winning the election.

    Perhaps it needs to be explained to newcomers to the party that the LP is not in a position to have a realistic chance at winning any high level government office, and that the primary purpose of these campaigns is to spread the Libertarian message, and to try to attract new members/activists, and to retain ballot access in the places where ballot retention is connected to vote totals for President or Governor, or to some other high level office the party stands little to no chance of winning. Let people know that the only offices the party has a legitimate chance at winning are city/town or county races where the population is low (which could include a district office in a higher population area, if the district is small), and state legislative races. Anything higher than this is probably outside of what the Libertarian Party can realistically win, without something big happening (like a candidate for US House emerging who can spend say $2 million plus on their campaign, but even then, the dynamics of the district and race would have to be favorable for the Libertarian, and the candidate may still have to contend with the possibility of vote fraud robbing them of victory). I have long advocated that the party come up with a list of action items for Libertarians to promote, such as jury nullification of victimless crimes, home schooling, alternative currencies, gun ownership, etc…, which advance the goals of the Libertarian Party, but do not rely on Libertarians getting elected to office to implement.

    Most people are not inspired to join, or remain members, of an organization that they do not see accomplishing anything productive.

  166. Caryn Ann Harlos

    I can’t believe you guys missed me banging myself on my head with my copy of Roberts 🙂

  167. paulie

    Starr appealed Sarwark’s ruling that sufficient notice was substantially complied with. Chair’s ruling upheld. The results were hard to hear, but I believe it passed. Sarwark admonished the body to have exact text of resolutions with sufficient notice in the future.

  168. paulie

    I can’t believe you guys missed me banging myself on my head with my copy of Roberts ?

    I’m only listening, not watching. The only thing I see is the screen I am typing on.

  169. paulie

    I can’t find the item being discussed in the agenda and missed the start but it sounds like the item being discussed is regarding fundraising. Starchild speaking up for not collecting too much data on potential donors.

  170. Starchild

    Joshua Katz voted no, Alicia Mattson and Aaron Starr abstained, everyone else voted in favor, of the simple, short version of the resolution to withdraw from NATO.

    Lauren Daugherty (staff head of development) now talking about wealth screening – mining data on individuals to find out their giving capacity. Sam Goldstein is moving (if I heard him correctly) to have us spend $24,000 to obtain this data (Lauren says from Wealth Engine(?)).

    I have a problem with this on privacy grounds.

  171. paulie

    Mattson concerned about the costs. Says LNC already spent a bunch of money on what was already a deficit budget.

    Various people addressing privacy concern issues.

  172. Andy

    “Starchild
    August 20, 2017 at 12:29
    We’re now discussing two different versions of Arvin Vohra’s motion on withdrawing from NATO. ”

    All right, I like to see this! They should put forth one to withdraw from the United Nations as well.

  173. Carol Moore/Secession.net

    I’ve been listening for a while. (Wrote one post on an important point of interest but think I left page before saved and it didn’t take; will just contact an LNC member.)

    So at least it looks like Vohra’s proposal passed. Frankly, I think something about North Korea would have been more timely. And four sentences is a nice size, as opposed to 1. This probably will go down the media rat hole. But time will tell.

    $$$$$$$$$ Yup, that’s the problem, ain’t it? Maybe if the LP would find JUST ONE good issue to sell out to some wealthy industry or other we could raise LOTS of money. ha ha ha

  174. paulie

    This is still in the platform:

    The United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world.

  175. Daniel Hayes

    My parliamentary mentor made the point to me long ago that Parliamentary Procedure exists to facilitate getting business getting done while protecting the rights of the members. Like anything , balance is important. As long as some fundamental right of the members is not being violated, we need to GSD.

  176. paulie

    My parliamentary mentor made the point to me long ago that Parliamentary Procedure exists to facilitate getting business getting done while protecting the rights of the members. Like anything , balance is important. As long as some fundamental right of the members is not being violated, we need to GSD.

    Good point, I agree. Too much time wasted appealing the rulings of the chair this meeting.

  177. Starchild

    Roll call vote on motion authorizing contracting of wealth screening services up to $25,000:

    Harlos -pass
    Sarwark – yes
    Harlos – abstain
    Hagan – yes
    Starchild – no
    Demarest – abstain
    Vohra – not voting (acting as chair during this debate)
    Bilyeu – yes
    Starr – yes
    Lark – yes
    Katz – yes
    Hayes – yes
    Sharpe – yes
    Bittner – yes
    Goldstein – yes
    Mattson – yes

  178. Andy

    “Caryn Ann Harlos
    August 20, 2017 at 12:04
    I was addressing the reality of my region. I have 9 states.

    And national has never had to obtain ballot access for Colorado. We are fortunate to have the easiest ballot access laws.”

    A long time Libertarian who used to work as a paid ballot access petitioner, told me that they worked on a petition drive for the Libertarian Party in Colorado back in the 1980’s.

    I know that there is some kind of party status petition drive in Colorado, because I heard about Americans Elect doing it (they folded, so they never actually put any candidates on the ballot).

    “It’s easy to judge but I certainly understand when a top 10 BSM member state asks why send the money out of state? We have n ends here in CO.”

    If they want to see the Libertarian Party grow nationally, and be able to get its presidential ticket on the ballot in all 50 states plus DC, they ought to care.

    Also, what if the ballot access laws were to change in Colorado for parties/candidates? Suppose that a new law were to pass there that made it a lot more difficult for Libertarians to get on the Colorado ballot. I bet these same people who are complaining about money they donated “going out of state” would be begging the LNC to send them money so they could get back on the ballot.

  179. Caryn Ann Harlos

    I represent my states Andy. If you would like to lecture them, I am sure the state chair’s emails are available.

  180. Starchild

    Motion to move money in the budget around to accommodate the wealth screening funding, an also to take into account the money we raised at the fundraiser Friday night (about $68,000, IIRC), passed with only me in opposition.

  181. Andy

    http://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/elections/Candidates/FAQs/QPOandMinorParty.html

    From the Colorado Secretary of State’s website on qualifying a minor political party:

    “What are the basic steps for petitioning to qualify as a minor party?

    The petition must:

    contain the minor party’s name and a heading stating that petition signers desire that the organization be qualified as a minor party (the party’s name may be up to three words in addition to the word ‘party,’ but may not include any part of the name of an existing party);

    be approved by the Secretary of State before it is circulated;

    be signed by at least 10,000 registered electors in Colorado; and

    be submitted to the Secretary of State no later than the second Friday in January of the election year for which the Minor Party seeks to qualify.
    The Secretary of State will examine the petition to verify the number and validity of signatures.”

    So I was right, there is a petition to qualify a minor political party for the ballot in Colorado. I know that once a party qualifies for the ballot in Colorado, it is pretty easy to stay qualified, but they still have to qualify in the first place.

    Colorado has an easy procedure to qualify a presidential ticket only, which I believe is either 1,000 valid petition signatures, or a $1,000 filing fee. The presidential ticket has to fill out Declarations of Candidacy, and submit a slate of presidential electors. This is not the same thing as having minor party status though.

    A law recently passed in Colorado that makes it far more difficult (to the point of being unreasonable, in my opinion) to qualify constitutional amendment ballot initiatives for the ballot. Maybe next somebody in Colorado will try to get a law passed to make it more difficult for minor parties and independent candidates to have ballot access. I know that there have already been a couple of attempts in Colorado to get Top Two Primary (fortunately, neither attempt made it very far, but the people behind it may try again).

  182. paulie

    Auditor recommended report be kept private;

    Starr points out items that should be kept confidential

    Moves substitute amendment to keep it confidential

  183. Starchild

    Myself, Arvin Vohra, Caryn Ann Harlos, and David Demarest voted for transparency; I believe all others voted for secrecy except Nick Sarwark as chair did not vote.

  184. paulie

    Questions about potential conflicts with state conventions. Some dates not yet known for those. Question of whether Easter weekend timing this year was detrimental. Lauren Daugherty believes it caused people who would have been potentially major contributors to not attend.

  185. Starchild

    Paulie writes (August 20, 2017 at 13:22), Now on to Starchild motion to make private portion of audit report public.

    Actually I was saying the document should be public by default, and a motion should be required to make it (or part of it) secret, but the chair ruled the document was currently secret.

  186. paulie

    Actually I was saying the document should be public by default, and a motion should be required to make it (or part of it) secret, but the chair ruled the document was currently secret.

    Thanks, I did not word that clearly.

  187. paulie

    Moved and Seconded for April 20-22 …suggestion for having it in a legal cannabis state.

    Move to substitution for Easter Weekend. Concern about cost of travel on easter weekend expressed.

  188. Starchild

    Caryn Ann Harlos, Tim Hagan, Starchild, Brett Bittner, Larry Sharpe, Sam Goldstein nominated to serve on the committee. Now on to regional reports while ballots are counted.

  189. paulie

    Bill Redpath, oral report on VA. Praises state of Cliff Hyra campaign. Several legislative campaigns and plans for future campaigns also.

  190. Starchild

    Candidate Support Committee results:

    Didn’t catch all of this, but Sam Goldstein, Brett Bittner, Larry Sharpe, and Caryn Ann Harlos are elected, with Bittner appointed interim chair. Vote totals (what I heard):

    Goldstein – 15?
    Bittner – 15?
    Sharpe – 15? (3-way tie)
    Hewitt – 13
    Harlos – 11
    Hagan – 11
    Starchild – 5

  191. paulie

    Last thing I heard was Sarwark thanking a reporter who has been at the LNC meeting and interviewing people. Then it cut out again.

  192. paulie

    For anyone who missed it earlier:

    As a reminder, http://www.ustream.tv/channel/libertarian-party1 has the meeting video archived in chunks. If anyone who was not able to watch/listen to the proceedings as they are happening wants to go over that and add or correct my notes you are welcome and encouraged to do so. The same goes for anyone who is there in person and too busy to help us liveblog, but has time and inclination to help with that after the fact.

  193. Michael H Wilson

    Thanks to all of you who worked to bring this to those of us not able to attend.
    Mike

  194. Pingback: Libertarian Party Will Attempt Tennessee Party Petition for the First Time | Independent Political Report

  195. paulie

    I’m pretty sure Alicia is the only one that has that information right now. It is supposed to be in her minutes when they are published is my understanding. I’m not sure exactly when that will be but she’s usually pretty fast. You could try asking her before then. I wouldn’t count on it but you never know.

  196. Chuck Moulton

    paulie wrote:

    Redpath: disagrees with the idea that we need to counterbalance states that get ballot access funds with direct support for candidates, says we all gain from LP being on the ballot everywhere and ballot access IS candidate support. Once we have a candidate support committee candidates will line up. We don’t have enough money. Status quo is better than either proposal, Goldstein’s is better than Starchild’s which Redpath says is unworkable. OK on case by case basis such Mark Miller in TX which was a ballot access race. Teach our candidates to fish rather than give them a fish.

    I completely agree with Bill Redpath.

    Unfortunately there will now be a long line of candidates with hat in hand, wasting everyone’s time.

  197. Chuck Moulton

    Starchild wrote:

    Ben Bachrach – 14
    Susan Hogarth – 12
    Emily Salvette – 12
    Steven Linnabary – 9
    David Stewart – 7
    Mike Kane – 6 (alternate)

    It’s disappointing that Mike Kane didn’t make the committee (by 1 vote), but that’s somewhat on him for not lobbying for himself as much as last time.

    Seems like a good committee overall.

  198. Caryn Ann Harlos

    The role call votes will be in the draft minutes. I did not vote for anyone who was not an active dues-paying or lifetime member. That was my first criteria. Also I sent out a survey to applicants. Non-response to the survey influenced my decision as well.

    No applicants independently contacted me to ask for my vote. Some did so though in response to my survey.

  199. paulie

    Does anyone want to write up a concise summary of what happened at this meeting? I may do it if no one else gets to it first.

  200. Pingback: LNC 2017: Summary of last weekend’s meeting in Kansas City | Independent Political Report

  201. Starchild

    I believe the name of the reporter at the meeting was Henry Gonzales; he’s from BuzzFeed. He interviewed me briefly about the party’s prospects, etc.

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