Socialist Party USA Statement on Charlottesville

Statement passed by the National Action Committee, 8/12/17

The Socialist Party condemns the cowardly act of right-wing terrorism in Charlottesville in which anti-fascist comrades were murdered and many more injured.

The oblivious response by Trump and weak response by other politicians of both capitalist parties proves that we are on our own. If anyone tells you this all can be solved by replacing Trump with a Democrat in 2020, they are wrong. The right-wing has been emboldened by Trump, but they will not step down when he leaves office.

We reject any notion that this murderous event was an isolated incident or the politics that fuel it exist only on the fringe of society. This is the United States – a country built on slavery and drenched in the blood of Native Americans, a country that glorifies murderers and tyrants by hiding them behind badges and government seals, and a country that slaughters countless people around the world in the name of an imaginary freedom that no one can obtain.

This is the United States and this is capitalism. It will fall and we will rise so to that end we organize and fight.

Rest in power.

155 thoughts on “Socialist Party USA Statement on Charlottesville

  1. Andy

    I have to wonder if the driver of that car that ran into people was a government plant. If anyone thinks this is a crazy thing about which to wonder, consider the fact that it has come out as a fact that in similar events in the past where protests erupted into violence, that there were in fact under-cover government provocateurs who were instigating and engaging in acts of violence.

    Also, there were in fact left wing counter-protesters at this event who were initiating acts of violence as well.

    I would not be surprised if it turns out that there were paid plants on both sides initiating violence.

    Regardless of whether or not any government provocateurs were involved, this incident will likely be used as an excuse to crack down on 1st amendment rights at future events.

  2. NewFederalist

    One of the greatest quotes I’ve ever seen. It applies to so many situations.

    “People anxious to be deceived are easy dupes.” – Grand Duke Alexander of Russia

    Once A Grand Duke
    By the Grand Duke Alexander of Russia
    Page 182
    Garden City Publishing Company, Inc.
    Garden City, New York 1932

  3. NewFederalist

    Another good one… “Nothing matters very much and few things matter at all”. – Arthur James Balfour UK Prime Minister 1902-05

  4. DJ

    I don’t doubt the sentiments expressed and even agree with them, but to believe full blown socialism is the answer to crony capitalism is ludicrous, at best.

  5. DJ

    Andy, I read an article yesterday (don’t remember where) that the whole shebang had the air of false flag as another step towards martial law.

  6. Kyle Markley

    “… and weak response by other politicians of both capitalist parties …”

    Not directly on topic, I realize, but I must say that the Republicans and Democrats do not resemble capitalist parties.

  7. paulie

    Not directly on topic, I realize, but I must say that the Republicans and Democrats do not resemble capitalist parties.

    Depends on what you mean by “capitalist.” I think they are if you are cognizant of the difference between free markets and capitalism. Capitalism means the accumulation of wealth by whatever means, whether legal, ethical, moral or not; mobsters, hitmen, drug dealers, ethical “legit” business owners and government connected crony businessmen are all capitalists, although they all operate at different levels of both legality by the regime’s standards as well as different levels of libertarian initiation of force constraints. As long as they are somehow leveraging capital to turn a profit they are “capitalists.” Politically, it also means those who defend an economic system primarily based on privately owned capital, whether or not it is a government distorted market. By this definition Ds and Rs and even most Greens are capitalists, as opposed to the various Socialist Parties.

  8. paulie

    Andy, I read an article yesterday (don’t remember where) that the whole shebang had the air of false flag as another step towards martial law.

    Sounds like yet another attempt to whitewash the fascists and absolve them of them of responsibility for violence. The fact is that yes, their bowel “movement” is crawling with government agents, but it’s also crawling with people who are legitimately mentally ill and violent. Their whole ideology is based on violence and they are by and large all devoted to the idea that they are training for a global race war.

    Muslim-initiated terrorist attacks have gotten more publicity, but aside from 9/11, white “nationalist” (racist, fascist) terrorism has claimed more lives and caused more damage in the US than attacks by Muslims or any other group.

    Trump and other fascist sympathizers and fellow travellers have been busy pushing a false equivalence between the much more violent fascists and the relatively far less violent groups standing up to oppose them, even in the wake of the the murderous fascist violence this past weekend. The attempts to speculate that it was a false flag, while that’s not impossible – are most likely part and parcel of that same effort.

    Yes false flags happen but so do actual attacks by actual fascists. Time to stop claiming that every single act of reich wing violence is staged or directed by the regime.

  9. DJ

    Yes false flags happen but so do actual attacks by actual fascists. Time to stop claiming that every single act of reich wing violence is staged or directed by the regime.
    …………….

    Its past time to stop crying about symbols by feigned offense.
    The facsist, for the most part, reside in DC and hire their help with (rhetoric meant to inflame) from cess pools posing as offended citizens. Free speech is a constitutionally protected right even if/when you don’t agree with it. The “reich wing” resides on BOTH sides, not just Trumps.

    Staged or not we’ll never know because so many (even apparently some Libertarians) refuse to acknowledge that man comprises gov’t’s, and our man is no different from those of the past, or the present, and party has nothing to do with it.

    I think it worthwhile to acknowledge an Orwellian big brother society is here and it didn’t happen with just Republican or Democrat support. It took/takes both sides of the nonexistent inside the beltway aisle to implement nefarious, liberty stealing “law”.

  10. DJ

    By this definition Ds and Rs and even most Greens are capitalists, as opposed to the various Socialist Parties.
    …………

    They’re “crony capitalist” and the “socialist” wants everyone to be forced to be equal, except of course the more equal. And few, if any, recognize they won’t likely be a part of the “more equal”.

  11. Andy

    I am not white-washing anything. We do not know for sure yet if any of the violence was conducted by paid agent provocateurs. This was speculation, although it was speculation based on fact. We do know that there were people on both sides of the protest who engaged in acts of violence.

    It is my guess that incidents like this are going to be used as excuses to crack down on 1st amendment rights.

  12. paulie

    We do know that there were people on both sides of the protest who engaged in acts of violence.

    Only one side killed people. The side that most frequently kills people.

    It is my guess that incidents like this are going to be used as excuses to crack down on 1st amendment rights.

    Of course they are, and the nazis are OK with that. Their endgame is war and dictatorship and anything that moves us in that direction is a win for them, no matter how much they decry the loss of their free speech. Free speech is not their end goal and if they lose it they will just move on to military tactics which is their eventual plan all along.

  13. Tony From Long Island

    Oh no . . . I should have known . . . It didn’t even dawn on me . . .

    Andy . . seek help . . . again . .

    There truly is something wrong with your thought process.

  14. Tony From Long Island

    DJ

    The facsist, for the most part, reside in DC and hire their help with (rhetoric meant to inflame) from cess pools posing as offended citizens

    Diving dangerously close to Andy levels of nuttiness.

  15. DJ

    The facsist, for the most part, reside in DC and hire their help with (rhetoric meant to inflame) from cess pools posing as offended citizens

    Diving dangerously close to Andy levels of nuttiness.
    ………….

    At the core/foundation of fascism is centralized control.

  16. Andy

    What do you think would happen if a group of people in some other country, let’s say Japan, or Mexico, or Israel, or Egypt, or wherever else, wanted to tear down historic statues/monuments/memorials/sites?

    Do you not think that some people, probably lots of people, would be pissed off?

    Mexico has historic sites left over from the days of the Aztecs. The Aztecs engaged in human sacrifices and they oppressed neighboring tribes. So should Aztec sites or statues be torn down?

    This issue of the Confederate statues/sites/memorials, along with talk of doing the same in regard to reminders of the Founders of this country, is an attempt to erase history.

    I’m a history buff myself, so my preference is in favor of historic sites/statues/memorials. I usually stop to read historic markers whenever I encounter them.

    There’s a statue of Vladimir Lenin, the first leader of Russia under the communists, in Seattle, Washington of all places. Vladimir Lenin was not an American citizen, and I don’t think that he ever even set for in the USA. The communist government he was a leader of murdered and oppressed millions of people, and is among the worst governments in the history of the planet.

    So why aren’t these leftists clamoring to have the Vladimir Lenin statue torn down? Where is the outcry over this? They want to erase American history, but having a statue of a Russian communist dictator standing in a major US city is OK?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Lenin,_Seattle

  17. paulie

    Lots of statues of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Saddam Hussein etc have been taken down all over the world. No one is trying to erase history; we all know these things happened. The issue is what statues get put in places of honor by government which is a message about what the society’s values are. History goes in museums; public monuments are conveying support, not just history. Would you expect Iraq to leave statues of Saddam Hussein in town squares?

  18. paulie

    Or perhaps you think statues of Hitler should adorn public places in Germany? No?

    I agree that the history of statues is important – not just the history that the statues depict but also how they came to be put up where they are. There were waves of putting up Confederate statues when the KKK had a resurgence in the 1920s and again when there was widespread resistance to desegregation in the former Confederate states in the 1950s and 60s. In that context, it should be very clear what message those statues were put up to convey. That message was heard loud and clear and continues to be heard today.

  19. Tony From Long island

    Andy

    This issue of the Confederate statues/sites/memorials, along with talk of doing the same in regard to reminders of the Founders of this country, is an attempt to erase history.

    I’m a history buff myself, so my preference is in favor of historic sites/statues/memorials.

    I guess you don’t know of these things called Museums. They have historical stuff there! Plenty of room for a statue of Robert E. Lee

  20. Matt

    You are correct on both counts. This kind of history belongs in museums. Historical markers are also appropriate. Closing museums is not something we should support. But removing the stamp of government approval implied by having these statues in public spaces is a different matter.

  21. Andy

    Lots of people find lots of things repugnant, so where does it end.

    Should all of the Martin Luther King Jr. statues and street signs be taken down because King associated with Communists, had multiple affairs outside of his marriage, and plagerized his Doctoral thesis?

    How about Franklin Roosevelt? Should anything pertaining to him be torn down because he rapidly expanded the federal government and he put Japanese Americans in prison camps even though they had not been charged with espionage?

    How about Thomas Jefferson and George Washington? They both owned slaves (although they did both free them in their wills upon their deaths).

    How about Abraham Lincoln? Some historians say the the Civil War could have been avoided, and that Lincoln rapidly expanded the state? He also made multiple statements that most people today would classify as racist.

    How about old Catholic churches and missions? The Catholic church engaged in the Spanish Inquasition, and they forced their religion onto native people’s in the Americas.

    How about displays of Israeli flags? You may offend Palestinians.

    How about Vietnam War memorials? You may offend Vietnamese people.

    I could go on an on with more examples.

    If people wanted to start the “blame game” when it comes to historic figures/monuments/statues/sites/memorials and flags, there would not be much of anything left because somebody could find something wrong or offensive with it.

    How about people stop behaving like crybabies?

  22. William Saturn

    Andy is right. And it’s much deeper than taking down statues. There are efforts to erase events and people from history. It’s been done before.

  23. paulie

    How about people stop behaving like crybabies?

    Sure, everyone that’s being a crybaby about the confederate flags and statues coming down can go ahead and stop any time now.

  24. paulie

    Not everything should be decided by a vote. Kudos to the cities taking decisive action by getting out ahead of public opinion and doing the right thing by moving monuments to slavery off public property.

  25. DJ

    Whose Side Is He On?
    BY: BEN STEIN

    The same day that this story appeared, I got a USPS letter saying — in a childish type written note on a torn sheet of lined paper, “Ben Stein–Economist, Lawyer, Actor, Commentator–Most of all F–king Jew.” I’d rather get those every hour of every day than lose one iota of the First Amendment. I appreciate that Trump, who is tortured every day by a hate-filled free press, still defends free speech.

    https://spectator.org/whose-side-is-he-on/?utm_source=American+Spectator+Emails&utm_campaign=8888697242-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_08_16&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_797a38d487-8888697242-104317377

  26. DJ

    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

  27. paulie

    I appreciate that Trump, who is tortured every day by a hate-filled free press, still defends free speech.

    More baloney. The press has been far too nice to him. If they are hate filled they are doing a bang up job of holding themselves back. As for his commitment to free speech, he has none. Trump is famous for calling for his goons to beat up peaceful protesters. He has a long history of suing or threatening to sue anyone who says anything he does not like about him. He has praised the president of Poland for silencing dissenting journalists there and is full of praise for Putin, who has dissenting journalists killed (Trump approves of the practice). Like the nazis he so clearly admires, Trump is all for free speech when it suits him and the people he likes and all about suppressing it with force whenever it is speech he does not like and when he has the power to do it.

  28. paulie

    Pretty shameful to quote Pastor Niemoller to defend neo-nazis and Hitler admirer Donald Drumpf. Nazis are the “they” who came for various people in that poem. They haven’t changed.

  29. DJ

    Andy
    August 16, 2017 at 18:33

    Lots of people find lots of things repugnant, so where does it end.
    ……….

    That’s what some can’t/won’t comprehend.

    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
    …………..

    It seems many don’t understand free speech (or anything else for that matter) taken from anyone leaves the complainer that much closer to being the one suppressed. Chickens will come home to roost.
    When you cross the line of demanding others don’t have a “right” and that the gov’t should support your belief, rest assured, your “right” will be next.

    It really pains me to see how ignorant and narrow minded people are.

  30. DJ

    August 16, 2017 at 20:35

    I appreciate that Trump, who is tortured every day by a hate-filled free press, still defends free speech.

    Trump is all for free speech when it suits him and the people he likes and all about suppressing it with force whenever it is speech he does not like and when he has the power to do it
    ……………

    Have you no self awareness at all? You’re doing exactly what you’re claiming he does without the power of course, but, still…..

  31. paulie

    It seems many don’t understand free speech (or anything else for that matter)

    Government using extorted tax funds to place and maintain monuments exhorting the slaveowners’ rebellion on public property is not “free speech.” Fascists threatening violence, coming well armed to defend these monuments while they spout hate rhetoric, and then perpetrating the violence and murder that they threatened is also not “free speech”. Try again.

    BTW as already mentioned it is particularly obscene to use Pastor Niemoller’s anti-nazi poem to defend murderous nazis.

  32. paulie

    You’re doing exactly what you’re claiming he does without the power of course, but, still…..

    I’m using my own free speech, which is not the same thing as suppressing yours and quite unlike what I have accurately pointed out that Trump both does and advocates.

  33. Andy

    “paulie
    August 16, 2017 at 13:48
    Or perhaps you think statues of Hitler should adorn public places in Germany? No?”

    There are statues of other nefarious people around the world (like the Vladimir Lenin statue in Seattle, Washington/how come nobody is clamoring to take this statue down?). Sure, I can see arguments for not wanting a statue of somebody who was particularly nefarious, but still, there is no reason why there could not be historic markers for Hitler, Stalen, Mao, Pol Pot, and other despots throughout history.

    One of the coolest tours I ever went on was the tour of Alcatraz in San Francisco. I imagine that there were a lot of nefarious people locked up there. Should Alcatraz be torn down, because having it open as a tourist attraction could be interpreted as glorifying criminals.

    When I took a trip to England years ago, I took some tours of castles and other places that were relevant to the British monarchs. The British Monarchy did a lot of bad things.

    “I agree that the history of statues is important – not just the history that the statues depict but also how they came to be put up where they are. There were waves of putting up Confederate statues when the KKK had a resurgence in the 1920s and again when there was widespread resistance to desegregation in the former Confederate states in the 1950s and 60s. In that context, it should be very clear what message those statues were put up to convey. That message was heard loud and clear and continues to be heard today.”

    The Civil War was a pretty traumatic event. The Southern people wanted to remember their dead. Maybe some of these things were put out to intimidate people, but I don’t believe that most people today look at the old Civil War statues/memorials/sites and the Confederate flag, as symbols of intimidation or racism. They are seen as pieces of history, and the Confederate flag is seen as a symbol of regional pride.

    The North wasn’t so great during the Civil War era either, and there have been plenty of incidents of racism in the North. Also, slaves were held longer during under the American flag than under the Confederate flags. No slave ship flew a Confederate flag, but slave ships did fly the American flag.

    How many American Indians were oppressed under the American flag? Should the American flag be taken down?

    Also, what about symbols from African tribes that sold slaves? Should they be banned from public view?

    What about the free black people in early America who owned slaves?

    What about the American Indian tribes who owned slaves?

    The ancient Greeks and Romans had slaves, so should anything related to them be torn down? The same with the ancient Egyptians.

  34. Andy

    “paulie
    August 16, 2017 at 20:57
    It seems many don’t understand free speech (or anything else for that matter)
    Government using extorted tax funds to place and maintain monuments exhorting the slaveowners’ rebellion on public property is not ‘free speech.’ ”

    Funny how you don’t see these leftists going after statues/memorials dedicated to left wing heroes like Franklin Delano Roosevelt, MLK, Vladimir Lenin, Lyndon Johnson, etc…

    Also, since when do leftists give a flying fuck about something being paid for by the taxpayers?

    There are plenty of public parks out there, and these leftists aren’t clamoring to have anything taken down that promotes their Marxist agenda.

    “Fascists threatening violence, coming well armed to defend these monuments while they spout hate rhetoric, and then perpetrating the violence and murder that they threatened is also not “free speech”. Try again.”

    So the Antifa didn’t show up looking for violence? They brought plenty of weapons, and they were throwing stuff, and starting fights.

    This was the same kind of crap the Antifa pulled at that Milo speech at Berkley.

  35. Andy

    “paulie
    August 16, 2017 at 20:37
    Pretty shameful to quote Pastor Niemoller to defend neo-nazis and Hitler admirer Donald Drumpf. Nazis are the ‘they”’who came for various people in that poem. They haven’t changed.”

    Donald Trump may be a lot of things, but he is no anti-Semite. His daughter is married to a Jewish guy (Jared Kushner), and she has converted to Judaism. Donald Trump has multiple Jewish staffers, and he has pledged his undying support for Israel.

  36. Andy

    How come these left wing commies haven’t protested the anti-gun rights statue at the United Nations building in New York City?

    The United Nations receives taxpayer funding. This is clearly an anti-American statue, which goes against the 2nd amendment of the US Constitution.

    Could it be because this statue is supported by their globalist masters who are pulling their strings?

    This statue goes along with their Marxist agenda, so you won’t see these “useful idiots” clamoring for this statue to be taken down.

    http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-knotted-gun-sculpture-in-front-of-the-united-nations-building-new-89180397.html

  37. paulie

    there is no reason why there could not be historic markers for Hitler, Stalen, Mao, Pol Pot, and other despots throughout history.

    I’m all for historic markers, as I already said. I’m also all for statues in museums and on private property.

    Maybe some of these things were put out to intimidate people

    There’s no maybe about it. The statues and flags were put up in distinctive waves that were part of establishing or holding on to white domination – the consolidation of restored white power around the turn of the 19th to 20th century, the revival of the KKK in the 1920s, the struggle against desegregation in the 1950s and 1960s. There’s no mistaking what message was being sent.

    “What about …”

    Unlike all those other groups you mention, the Confederacy seceded specifically to maintain slavery – it’s in their state letters as the cause for separation – and is not really notable for anything else.

    There’s a reason why those statues were put up not just where but when they were and we are reaching the point when that reason is no longer being swept under the rug.

  38. paulie

    Also, since when do leftists give a flying fuck about something being paid for by the taxpayers?

    When what is being paid for is the public promotion of slavery and white supremacy.

    So the Antifa didn’t show up looking for violence? They brought plenty of weapons, and they were throwing stuff, and starting fights.

    They engaged in self-defense. It was clearly the nazis who threatened violence and engaged in it, up to and including severely injuring multiple people and killing Heather Heyer. It wasn’t even close to the the first time they killed people either. Where are all the people Antifa has killed? Your equivalence of the two is total bullshit.

  39. Tony From Long Island

    Andy, for someone as smart as you claim to be, you still haven’t learned how to use BLOCKQUOTE? You must have been drinking the hard stuff last night.

  40. paulie

    Donald Trump may be a lot of things, but he is no anti-Semite. His daughter is married to a Jewish guy (Jared Kushner), and she has converted to Judaism. Donald Trump has multiple Jewish staffers, and he has pledged his undying support for Israel.

    He believes Jews control the world, so he “keeps his enemies closer.” I do believe there are anti-semitic elements in his mind. He has retweeted crap from anti-semitic accounts multiple times and said he prefers Jewish accountants, expressing the thought in crude stereotypes. But Drumpf grew up in NYC, where Jews do in fact have quite a bit of power, being a much more substantial minority there than in other parts of the US, so he also fears Jews somewhat and wants to placate them – for many years he lied about his ancestry, claiming his paternal ancestry was Swedish rather than German, because he was afraid of Jewish reaction if they knew he was part German.

    Bannon has also been alleged to make antisemitic statements and is a key aide to Drumpf. But as for Hitler admirer, what that refers to specifically is that Drumpf kept a book of Hitler speeches by his bedside. He studied Hitler and admires him because he has the same goal of becoming a dictator and taking over the world. It’s also why he admires Putin, Erdogan, Duterte and other dictators and tyrants all over the world. In many, many respects he is following their playbook.

  41. paulie

    Andy, for someone as smart as you claim to be, you still haven’t learned how to use BLOCKQUOTE? You must have been drinking the hard stuff last night.

    Andy only drinks beer, and not to excess. And he refuses to learn even the most basic html. I won’t put up a link but I’ve put up links to learning basic HTML tags too many times to count. He’s just not interested.

  42. paulie

    How come these left wing commies haven’t protested the anti-gun rights statue at the United Nations building in New York City?

    Two reasons are that 1) The statue is not about gun rights, it is symbolic of ending war and 2) most of them are not so big on gun rights.

  43. DJ

    paulie
    August 16, 2017 at 21:00

    You’re doing exactly what you’re claiming he does without the power of course, but, still…..

    I’m using my own free speech, which is not the same thing as suppressing yours and quite unlike what I have accurately pointed out that Trump both does and advocates.
    …………….

    I didn’t say, or imply you are trying to suppress me. Are you really this shallow or are you working at it?

  44. DJ

    paulie
    August 16, 2017 at 20:57

    BTW as already mentioned it is particularly obscene to use Pastor Niemoller’s anti-nazi poem to defend murderous nazis.
    ……………..

    I’m not defending murderous Nazi’s, nor am I defending Trump (although from what I can see he was right in what he said). That was a well known “brother” of your’s. I’m defending anyone’s right to express their opinion. You don’t like anything that can somehow be equated to something you refuse to learn about-slavery. Yet, you refuse to correlate a simple poem to precisely what you’re doing. SMH. Amazing.

    It’s that whole hate the sin not the sinner thing…..and I ain’t even a religious person.
    And an alleged libertarian, such as yourself, that can’t (or refuses to) correlate might want to re-think their political leanings, which appear to mirror those you hate. He might also want to consider how hate can consume and cause blindness politically, not to mention personally.

  45. DJ

    Trump Spoke Truth About ‘Both Sides’ In Charlottesville, And The Media Lost Their Minds

    Me: (and apparently some others have as well)

    Our media have a problem: they are essentially incapable of covering Donald Trump with anything less than full-on deranged hysteria.

    I do not say this as an excess of rhetoric or op-ed theatrics. It is a very real, very pressing problem, only getting worse, and it poses a significant danger to the social fabric of the United States. Twenty-first century American media has the ability to shape our discourse and shift our public consciousness, and it is abusing that power in the worst ways possible. This is likely a bigger problem than any of us realizes.
    …………

    http://thefederalist.com/2017/08/17/trump-spoke-truth-sides-charlottesville-media-lost-minds/?utm_source=The+Federalist+List&utm_campaign=e0c02213ad-RSS_The_Federalist_Daily_Updates_w_Transom&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_cfcb868ceb-e0c02213ad-83900825

  46. paulie

    I’m not defending murderous Nazi’s

    From what I can see, you are.

    I defending Trump (although from what I can see he was right in what he said)

    You need to consult a qualified eyecare professional, then.

    That was a well known “brother” of your’s.

    You mean Andy? He will say exactly what you are saying, that he is not defending the nazis or Trump. He’ll just do what Trump is doing and create a false equivalence between the murderous fascists and those who stand up to them. And parrot all of their talking points about the statues. But he’s “not” defending him just like he does “not” defend Invictus.

    I’m defending anyone’s right to express their opinion.

    I’m not opposed to the fascists expressing their opinion. That’s not what they were doing in Charlottesville. They came armed for battle, predicting a battle, and did exactly what they threatened. Do you need me to pull up things posted before the events in Charlottesville that predicts there would be a high likelihood of violence?

    You don’t like anything that can somehow be equated to something you refuse to learn about-slavery.

    You’re correct, I don’t like the glossing over and backhanded promotion of slavery. I’ve learned quite a bit about it but from what you have shown here you are the one who refuses to learn accurate history, for example about Robert E. Lee.

    Yet, you refuse to correlate a simple poem to precisely what you’re doing. SMH. Amazing.

    That would be insulting if it wasn’t so laughable. I am what, “coming for people”? Refusing to speak up because “they” (who?) are coming for the nazis? You are disgracing the poem and its author by abusing it in that way. Martin Niemoller spent seven years in nazi concentration camps, and make no mistake – the nazis who killed Heather Heyer are no different than the nazis who imprisoned Niemoller and will do the exact same thing if and when given the chance. By way of contrast, no one, least of all me, is forcing nazis into concentration camps or killing them. And when they can manage to remain peaceful, which is no longer something they feel the need to do in the age of their hero Drumpf, I’m all for allowing them to speak. Which does not mean that anyone else loses their right to speak out against them or confront them verbally when they do.

    It’s that whole hate the sin not the sinner thing…..and I ain’t even a religious person.

    As I said on a different thread here, I believe just yesterday, I try not to hate anyone – only bad ideas and bad actions. I see the potential for good in everyone and believe it or not, all ideological differences aside, I have even been friends with people who are in theory committed to killing me and everyone “like me” (in their minds) – including some white racists. I despise their views but ideology is not the sum total of a person.

  47. DJ

    Durham Police Took Pictures While Protesters Vandalized. Seattle Police Think That’s Insane

    Let’s start with a review of the basics. Racists, and others with repugnant views, have a right to be repugnant and express those views in public in this country. We protect their right to free speech because if we fail to, we could very quickly endanger less repugnant views. As the American Civil Liberties Union tweeted this weekend, “The same laws used to silence bigots can be used to silence you.”

    http://thefederalist.com/2017/08/16/durham-police-took-pictures-protesters-vandalized-seattle-police-think-thats-insane/?utm_source=The+Federalist+List&utm_campaign=e0c02213ad-RSS_The_Federalist_Daily_Updates_w_Transom&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_cfcb868ceb-e0c02213ad-83900825

  48. DJ

    Paulie: As I said on a different thread here, I believe just yesterday, I try not to hate anyone – only bad ideas and bad actions. I see the potential for good in everyone and believe it or not, all ideological differences aside, I have even been friends with people who are in theory committed to killing me and everyone “like me” (in their minds) – including some white racists. I despise their views but ideology is not the sum total of a person.
    …………..

    Me: You should try harder. You remind me of a couple guys I used to have run ins with on another message board. Total lack of self awareness, and they were both staunch Republicans.

    What’s shameful about the poem is how shallow and narrow minded you are with your inability (which I believe is intentional, at least then you’d have a legitimate excuse) to correlate what you’re doing with what Nazi’s did. You say you’re not trying to suppress others yet you want others symbols removed and apparently you approve of the violence those you side with perpetrated since it did get the result you want-removing the rallyers and the statue= suppression of those you choose to defend and side with.

  49. paulie

    You should try harder. You remind me of a couple guys I used to have run ins with on another message board. Total lack of self awareness, and they were both staunch Republicans.

    Funny, I was going to say that about you.

    What’s shameful about the poem is how shallow and narrow minded you are with your inability (which I believe is intentional, at least then you’d have a legitimate excuse) to correlate what you’re doing with what Nazi’s did.

    That’s because there is no correlation, as I have already explained.

    You say you’re not trying to suppress others yet you want others symbols removed

    It doesn’t make me just like a communist if I want communist statues removed in former communist countries. I am not opposed to having confederate statues on private property or in museums. I am not opposed to historical markers. Not wanting to give them the propaganda place of honor that they were clearly intended to have by being put when and where they were does not make me anything like a nazi, and it is insulting to Niemoller and all those who were in nazi concentration camps to make that comparison. There’s no “free speech right” to have your speech promoted by the government.

    apparently you approve of the violence those you side with

    The only violence I approve of is in self-defense or in the defense of others who are being attacked.

    removing the rallyers and the statue

    Removing the statues is not suppression because there is no inherent right to have it on public property in the first place. And no one has removed anyone’s ability to peacefully protest, nor have I advocated any such thing. However, nazis do not, never did and never should have any legitimate right to riot and injure and kill people as they threatened to do and did in fact do in Charlottesville. When they do that shit they should be dispersed and prosecuted. And they never had any right to march somewhere with no one standing up to oppose them verbally. So let’s be clear on that.

  50. paulie

    “The same laws used to silence bigots can be used to silence you.”

    Again, that depends on which laws. I’ve always defended the right of bigots to gather as long as they do so peacefully. Their rhetoric before the events in Charlottesville and their actions when they were there clearly indicate that was never their intent in this case.

  51. paulie

    NAACP Leader: I Disapprove Of Pulling Down Confederate Statues
    “You can’t eliminate what history is. So I disapprove with young people pulling down those statues.”

    Newsflash: even NAACP leaders can be wrong. This is an example.

  52. paulie

    There Are Good Reasons To Reconsider Keeping Confederate Memorials In Our Public Squares

    There are better reasons to get rid of them.

  53. paulie

    Trump Spoke Truth About ‘Both Sides’ In Charlottesville, And The Media Lost Their Minds

    Trump spoke bullshit (redundant, I know) about “both sides” when only one side committed murder and multiple maimings – the same side that has done it many other times. The same side which very publicly threatened to do it before the events in question.

    Our media have a problem: they are essentially incapable of covering Donald Trump with anything less than full-on deranged hysteria.

    Total nonsense. Actually, they seem almost incapable of covering him with anything except boot licking acquiescence.

    Like his role model Hitler before him, and dictators throughout the ages, Trump spreads bullshit about the “lying press” because he wants to have no independent examination of his actions and no counter to his propaganda.

  54. paulie

    Like I said, Paulie, your hate has blinded you.

    Repeating you disproven assertions does not make them any more true. However, thanks for confirming that at this point rote repetition is all you have left.

  55. paulie

    Not watching any youtubes at the moment, but is Napolitano really broken up by statues of communists being moved from their former places of honor in Europe and the USSR? In reality, no one here wants to erase history. That’s a canard by those who are trying to preserve the worst aspects of what should be history – that is, in the past – and keep it as our reality in the present.

  56. paulie

    The Left Openly Wants To Remove Any Reminder Of Those That Built This Nation

    The leaders of the confederacy tried to build something, but it wasn’t this nation.

  57. paulie

    As for who did build this nation… way too much credit has been given to some leaders. In reality, a lot of people built it. And they were a much more diverse group of people than the ones that typically get statues of themselves put up.

  58. Andy

    These left wing jackasses want to tear down historic statues/memorials/sites, because they think that it will make them feel better about themselves. Funny how they won’t tear down minimum wage laws that increase unemployment. Funny how they won’t tear down regulations that make it more difficult for people to start their own businesses. Funny how they won’t tear down the public school system, which forces people to pay for schools that force children to attend which give them lousy educations. Funny how they won’t tear down oppressive taxes which help make people poor. Funny how they won’t remove gun control laws, which make it so people can’t defend themselves. Funny how they won’t remove Democratic Party politicians who want to keep the war on drugs going, which ironically. leads to slavery in the prison complex.

    These people will get all hyped up over an old statue/memorial/sites, but they won’t do anything of substance that would actually improve their own lives.

  59. paulie

    The fascist rhetoric of the Unite the Right rally was by no means limited to enshrining monuments to slavery and segregation. It’s only those who make excuses for these fascists who keep trying to say that’s all it was about. The Charlottesville statement, first draft by Invictus and completed by Richard Spencer, was not about statues. Those resisting growing fascist organizing and mobilization with their hero and admirer Drumpf in office are not under any illusion that it’s all about statues any more than the fascists themselves are. And none of us should be under any such illusion either.

  60. Andy

    “paulie
    August 18, 2017 at 13:08
    The fascist rhetoric of the Unite the Right rally”

    I don’t give a shit what Unite the Right had to say. They can stand there and say whatever they want. It is called free speech.

  61. paulie

    Also not true, as also previously discussed. They didn’t just stand there, they said beforehand they would attack people, and proceeded to do exactly that. 35 people went to the hospital, only 18 or 19 from the fascist terrorist car attack. The rest were attacked by other fascists. No fascists went to the hospital, let alone the morgue. According to the fascist organizers themselves none of them were hurt and none of them had their property damaged. They came looking for a fight, not for free speech. In the last nine years white supremacists have perpetrated 74% of the terrorist acts of violence in the US, Muslims 24% and leftists only 2%. The pace and deadliness of the racist attacks is increasing as is the violence of their rhetoric. But again, it’s more than rhetoric. If it was just speech you would be right, but it’s not and it’s time to stop pretending that is. Their words and their actions are both violent, and not defensive.

  62. paulie

    There are statues of other nefarious people around the world (like the Vladimir Lenin statue in Seattle, Washington/how come nobody is clamoring to take this statue down?)

    http://reason.com/blog/2017/08/18/in-defense-of-lenin-statues-and-canyon-o

    Seattle Mayor Ed Murray has called for the removal of the Vladimir Lenin statue in the neighborhood of Fremont.

    Statues for Confederate generals frequently went up during periods of heightened racial tension. They were sometimes meant specifically to intimidate local black populations, and they often had that effect whether that was the intent or not. If a Lenin statue was put up in, say, a neighborhood where Eastern Europeans were starting to move, it could represent something else. But it wasn’t.

    Taking down Seattle’s Lenin statue would make even less sense. It’s a statue that had already been taken down—in 1989, in Czechoslovakia after the Velvet Revolution. It was found in a scrap heap by an American English teacher living abroad, who convinced the authorities to sell it to him and who then spent tens of thousands of dollars to ship it to the U.S. He wanted to use it to promote a restaurant he planned to open.

    The statue was placed in a retail area in Fremont in 1995, and it has officially been on sale ever since. (It can be yours for $250,000.) It is essentially a surreal joke. It has become a tourist attraction, not for communist sympathizers but for people who enjoy seeing weird things; it is now a symbol of the character of the neighborhood, whose motto is Latin for “the freedom to be peculiar.”

    State Sen. Reuven Carlyle (D-Seattle), whose family came from Poland in the 1920s, has defended the Lenin statue. “Unlike the Confederacy statues throughout our nation built to formally honor those in that battle of ideas, this statue is distinctly not showcased in Fremont to celebrate the murderous, painful regime,” Carlyle wrote on his blog. “The statue was, simply, installed with artistic intent to show that our very ability to install political art is the triumph of democracy over tyranny.”

    He continued: “Art can be offensive and painful, but it can also bring us alive with curiosity, wonder, knowledge. Installing a political statue of a man and regime that would never allow installation of political statues of opponents is a symbolic representation of the victory of democracy and freedom over oppression. And of the role of art itself.”

    It is also private property standing on private land, so Seattle’s mayor shouldn’t have any say about whether it stays or goes. What is he, some kind of communist?

  63. paulie

    No, but he is slated to be replaced by Harriet Tubman. I’m sure a lot of racists will not want to spend those $20s when that happens, right?

  64. paulie

    And once again, Andy, please stop trying to make this about preserving history or free speech, when you know just as well as as everyone else that is about violent nazis and white supremacists initiating force on behalf of their vile bigoted delusions.

  65. paulie

    As Mike Riggs explains at reason.com:

    “They want to be someone other than who they are. That’s the great irony of identity politics: They seek identity in the tribe because they are failed individuals.”

    I grew up in a town where the Confederate flag was displayed casually and unabashedly, in actual fabric form as well as on mudflaps and bumper stickers. My ancestors fought for Davis and Jefferson and slavery, and my grandparents were members of descendant organizations. Williamson’s theory that white supremacists are looking for purpose in all the wrong places reflects what I saw in my hometown.

    By chance, I made friends in high school with someone who came to identify himself as a neo-Nazi; he was never able to provide me with a cogent explanation for how a Jewish person, or even all the Jewish people combined, were responsible for his terrible grades, his social anxiety, his parents’ inability to find satisfying work in our impoverished town, or the dilapidated state of the trailer into which the three of them were crammed. I’m not sure there even were any Jewish people in our town; I don’t remember meeting a Jewish person until college.

  66. Jill Pyeatt

    that is about violent nazis and white supremacists initiating force on behalf of their vile bigoted delusions.

    So, now you’re going to tell me what I think? Jeez. And God forbid someone tries to make a joke.

    Paulie, what happened to you?

  67. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt
    August 18, 2017 at 17:05
    We also need to tear up all our $20 bills, since Andrew Jackson was a traitor to Native Americans.”

    That is true, and was not a good thing, but he also shut down one of the early attempts at a central bank, which would be the equivalent of a President today shutting down the Federal Reserve System, which would be a good thing. Could you imagine a President today aggressively going after The Fed?

    Andrew Jackson is going to be off the $20 bill soon anyway. He’s being replaced by Harriet Tubman.

  68. paulie

    So, now you’re going to tell me what I think? Jeez. And God forbid someone tries to make a joke.

    Paulie, what happened to you?

    Nothing happened to me. How was I telling you what you think? For one thing I was talking to Andy and for another I wasn’t telling him what he thinks either. As for the joke I missed it but I guess that happens with the print format, sorry.

  69. Jill Pyeatt

    that is about violent nazis and white supremacists initiating force on behalf of their vile bigoted delusions.

    You’re telling me I know the above. I don’t. This has just as much to do with the Lunatic Left trying to control every narrative in this country as it does with the dolts on the right behaving like idiots.

  70. paulie

    I wasn’t telling you anything, I was replying to Andy. And the reason I know that he knows that is because he has been participating a lot in these discussions and it has been extensively discussed here. You haven’t been so it is possible that you don’t, but you should.

  71. DJ

    Charlottesville and Its Aftermath: What if It Was a Setup?

    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/08/charlottesville_and_its_aftermath_what_if_it_was_a_setup.html

    Leftist “Strategy of Provocation” Agitprop Returns Masquerading As “News”

    The organizer of the Unite The Right rally in Charlottesville was a Democrat and an Obama supporter. He was also part of the Occupy Wall street movement and a strong supporter of gun control. His name is Jason Kessler. Kessler suddenly switched from being an Obama supporter to a Trump supporter after Trump won.

    How can someone who supported and worked for George Soros funded, Black Lives Matter enthusiast Barack Obama suddenly become a white supremacist and create a white supremacist rally to engage in violent street warfare confrontation with Black Lives Matter and Antifa? Is Jason Kessler also a George Soros paid agent provocateur? The mayor of Charlottesville ordered the police to stand down so violence could erupt. The entire Charlottesville event was a staged event, a classic strategy of provocation operation which is going to be used as psywar pushing for national imposition of martial law and the deep state coup against Trump and the remnants of the Republic.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/leftist-strategy-provocation-agitprop-returns-masquerading-news/

    The Rise of the Violent Left

    Antifa’s activists say they’re battling burgeoning authoritarianism on the American right. Are they fueling it instead?
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/

  72. Andy

    Good post, DJ. It is good to see somebody else here besides me who is suspicious of the official narrative about what happened in Charlottesville. Keep engaging in critical thought.

  73. Andy

    I do think that there were legitimate protesters on both sides, but I also suspect that there were undercover provocateurs on both sides, and we already know that there were paid protestolers/actors among the leftists, and that the police were ordered to stand down.

    The whole thing is very fishy.

  74. Jill Pyeatt

    Wow, DJ, good for you for thinking for yourself. I tend to think that if an incident is perfectly timed to fit the primary agenda in this country, it’s worth looking into. There were indeed many fishy things about that protest.

    Disclaimer: That’s not to say that Nazis and White Nationalists stand for anything I could support, ever. I just happen to think violence is a bad thing, whether it was started by people on the right, or people on the left, or if it’s mutual. And I’ve learned to do research into as many events as possible, and not rely on reports that are on TV, usually way too soon to know what really happened.

  75. paulie

    The entire Charlottesville event was a staged event, a classic strategy of provocation operation which is going to be used as psywar pushing for national imposition of martial law and the deep state coup against Trump and the remnants of the Republic.

    What a load of hooey.

  76. paulie

    I do think that there were legitimate protesters on both sides

    Only if you call nazis who came looking to start a street brawl and managing to do exactly that “legitimate protesters”.

  77. paulie

    Wow, DJ, good for you for thinking for yourself.

    LOL.

    I just happen to think violence is a bad thing, whether it was started by people on the right, or people on the left, or if it’s mutual.

    It wasn’t mutual. Look at who went to the hospital and who didn’t. Zero nazis went to the hospital or even had any property damage. 35 people who opposed them ended up in the hospital, some with serious injuries, one dead, and almost half of those were not from the vehicle attack.

  78. dL

    What a load of hooey.

    Yep..there is no moral equivalence between the antifa and the blood and soil alt-right. None. I tag anyone preoccupied w/ making such an equivalence as an alt-right sympathizer.

  79. DJ

    dL
    August 18, 2017 at 21:05

    What a load of hooey.

    Yep..there is no moral equivalence between the antifa and the blood and soil alt-right. None. I tag anyone preoccupied w/ making such an equivalence as an alt-right sympathizer.
    ………..

    I tag anyone making such an ignorant comment as ignorant and in sympathy with alt-left organizing freaks that can’t seem to make their minds up about what they should protest ala that Kessler idiot who is nothing more than a professional ‘provocateur’ which is what I said from the beginning with my front porch analogy that went over paulie’s head. While some of you may believe those idiots were sincere, you’re wrong. They’re professional trouble makers preying on weak minded ignorance and succeeding in dividing “We the people”….. tearing down the past will not make it all better. In fact, I’d suggest not owning up to our past is part and parcel with a lot of what’s wrong in the US…… (the only good Indian is a dead Indian…. The Thibodeaux massacre, the Sand Creek massacre, The Civil War which is an official oxy moron among the other lies officially approved for our “education?”) and applauding doing away with History is about the best form of revisionism there is. Yeah, tear them all down. Forget the past. That way we’re sure to not learn from it. Lets start with Rushmore and the Lincoln Monument in DC.

    I really thought that more than 2 people here would be able to see through the charade, especially you dl.

    I’ll go now and let y’all (dl,paulie and Tony from Long Island) have your little jack off party…. don’t let anything drop.

    Fuck you left loving alleged libertarian people!

    Jill, Andy, been a pleasure reading y’all’s commentary.

  80. paulie

    in sympathy with alt-left organizing

    LOL … you are the puppet of a puppet. Trump made up the “alt left” – please show me anyone who refers to themselves that way – he literally made it up on the spot and you are echoing this nonsense as if it’s a real thing. And when you consider that Trump is a puppet himself that’s just…sad.

  81. paulie

    http://www.snopes.com/white-supremacist-democrat/

    CLAIM
    A man who was either the organizer of the 2017 white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia or the driver of the car that ran down protesters, killing one, is a Democrat who was photographed meeting President Obama in the Oval Office.

    RATING
    FALSE

    ORIGIN
    On 15 August 2017, the “satirical” web site Our Land of the Free published an article with a headline stating that the white supremacist accused of killing a protester days earlier at a neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, is a Democrat who visited President Obama in the White House.

    The author misidentifies the man accused of a fatal vehicular attack in the body of the article, however, confusing him with the rally’s organizer, Jason Kessler:

    Moreover, the photo presented by Our Land of the Free as evidence that Kessler is a Democrat is one of the more ludicrous digital manipulation jobs we’ve encountered in awhile:

    ….

    As best we can tell, that is accused Charlottesville killer James Fields’ face (not Jason Kessler’s) lamely pasted into the image, but the body doesn’t belong to either of them. We located a copy of the original, unaltered photo, taken by official Obama White House photographer Pete Souza, and found that it documented an Oval Office encounter between President Obama, comedian Will Ferrell, and Ferrell’s wife, Viveca in October 2011

    As we observed earlier, Our Land of the Free is a “satire” web site, per this disclaimer found at the bottom of every page of the site:

    We believe in the right to be free. No matter what, the freedom to do what we want, say what we want and publish what we want comes first. Therefore we make no guarantee that what you read here is true. In fact, it most definitely is not. Our Land Of The Free is here to entertain you with the kind of whimsical satire conservatives enjoy.

    Potentially confusing for inattentive readers will be the fact that some of the untrustworthy sites reposting the article (Patriot USA and News Feed Observer, to name two) carry no such disclaimer. Regardless of where you read it, the story is false.

    Note how Andy and DJ are peddling this transparently false garbage? How typical.

  82. dL

    please show me anyone who refers to themselves that way

    No one. “Alt-left” is an accusatory term used by the Clintonistas(to describe the Sanders wing of the Dem party) or the batshit right-wing(to describe anyone not down w/ “blood and soil”). No one self-describes by that term. Alt-right, or alternative right, however, are self-descriptive terms invented by those who identify w/ that ideology.

    If the suggestion that there is no moral equivalence between the antifa and the alt-right turns you into a wailing snowflake, then, yes, there is a good chance you sympathize w/ the alt-right. I note the LNC recently issued an official press release asking anyone who has sympathy w/ that point of view to leave the party. And I’m in full agreement.

  83. dL

    Lets start with Rushmore…

    Penn & Teller have already beaten everyone to it. They did a bullshit! episode a decade ago on Mt. Rushmore.

  84. paulie

    You’re using Snopes as a source? Really? They’ve been completely discredited.

    Read their articles and examine their sources for themselves. They do actual research and cite sources, unlike the sites Andy and DJ have been citing which just pass on joke site columns and bad photoshops as actual news.

  85. Andy

    Somebody call the gay rights lobby, Martin Luther King Jr. was an anti-gay bigot.

    Should the Martin Luther King Jr. statues/street signs/memorials all be torn down, and should Martin Luther King Jr. Day be repealed?

    Martin Luther King saw Homosexuality as a ‘Problem’ that Could Be ‘Solved’

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLQVoTWxobE

  86. paulie

    How come the left is not up in arms over this?

    Did MLK wage a violent revolution against the US? Were statues to him put up by a black supremacist government that systematically oppressed and discriminated against non-blacks, including through a violent police force and a discriminatory legal system? This is an absurd comparison.

  87. paulie

    Why Aren’t Liberals Calling for the Removal of the Senator Robert Byrd Statue?

    Perhaps because he didn’t wage war against the US and because statues to him were not put up as a symbol of white supremacy at the height of segregation?

  88. Tony From Long Island

    Andy:

    Senator Robert Byrd was once a member of the KKK, and he was a big pork barrel spender in the US Senate.

    Why Aren’t Liberals Calling for the Removal of the Senator Robert Byrd Statue?

    Pork barrel spending is on the same level as being a KKK member? Really? C’mon, man!!!! Your first point is valid but then you blur it with complete nonsense.

    Senator Byrd clearly and unequivocally denounced his prior association, which If I remember, was in the 1930’s.

    I fail to recall that famous speech where Robert E. Lee did so.

  89. Tony From Long Island

    DJ:

    Media plead ignorance of the ‘alt-left’

    There is such thing. The term “alt-right” was created by the alt-right as a way to describe themselves without revealing their white nationalist scum-baggishness.

    No one refers to themselves as “alt-left.” It’s a s fictional as massive voter fraud.

  90. paulie

    Snopes’ research is reproducible. They cite their sources and if you don’t believe them you can check them yourself. For example, if Andy did not believe Snopes that the Jason Kessler who worked for CNN was unrelated to the Jason Kessler who was involved with the fascist rally, he could have asked CNN himself instead of continuing to spread fake news (it may have been on another thread, but it was just last night, well after I posted the snopes link disproving that and a lot of other BS being spread of that type).

  91. Andy

    Watch this video, and check out all of the racist and misogynist quotes from the black Vice Mayor of Charlottesville, Wes Bellamy, who is one of the people who has been leading the charge to tear down the statue of Robert E. Lee.

    Wes Bellamy Is A Racist Misogynist

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlhKL7LMFHM

  92. Andy

    Police: Charlottesville Was ‘Inside Job’ To Ignite Race War

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oob8G5c5r8g

    From the YouTube video description: “A Charlottesville police officer has come forward to express his anger at being told to ‘stand down’ by the city mayor during violent clashes between protestors. He also claims the protests, which pitched ‘white supremacists’ against members of Antifa, were ‘set up’ to further the agenda of the elites.”

    ‘We [Charlotesville police] were ordered to bring the rival groups together. As soon as they were in contact with each other, we were told to stand down. It was outrageous. We weren’t allowed to arrest anyone without asking the mayor first. We weren’t even allowed to stop the driver as he sped away.’

    ‘The event was being set up as far back as at least May and it went like clockwork.’

    Michael Signer, the mayor of Charlottesville ordered police to stand down during the most chaotic and destructive period of the protests – despite police protests against the orders.”

  93. paulie

    Police: Charlottesville Was ‘Inside Job’ To Ignite Race War

    Your sensationalist headline is not supported by the body of the text. Even if it is supported by something else in the video it’s the opinion of one cop, not “police” so the headline should be “policeman” or “police officer” not “police.”

    As I’m sure I probably already said above, let me know when you find a terror attack that you do *not* think is an inside job. Are there ever any real terrorists?

    As already discussed, yes the police were ordered to stand down but there are any number of explanations for that other than “inside job to ignite a race war.”

    Lastly, suppose you are correct that the police staged an inside job to start a race war, what was their motivation? The biggest group I hear calling for a race war all the time are racists. Lots of police are racists, including some police brass. So the most likely scenario would be that there are white supremacists in the police command structure who wanted a race war like white supremacists everywhere do.

    Yes, I know the chief is black but I don’t know that the order came directly from the chief.

  94. DJ

    http://libertyunyielding.com/2017/08/17/police-stand-charlottesville-theres-money-follow/:

    On that police stand-down in Charlottesville, there’s money to follow

    Eyewitnesses from both political sides are agreed on a couple of important points. One is that, at the time the dispersal order was given (between 11:30 and noon on Saturday), the law enforcement presence was concentrated on the north side of the park, north of the two barricaded “pens” where the white supremacist protesters were required to be.

    The other is that the counter-protesters, who were present without a permit, were allowed to roam freely around the park perimeter and on the streets fanning out from it. The police made no effort to control access to those streets, or intervene in whatever was happening on them. Reportedly, the police were not present on those streets at all.

    Eyewitnesses also say that when the white supremacists were told to disperse, the police made it impossible for them to leave the park by exiting to the north. The white supremacists were herded out of the park to the south. The streets south, east, and west of the park were filled with counter-protesters (especially Market Street to the south), but none of them had a police presence.

    http://libertyunyielding.com/2017/08/17/police-stand-charlottesville-theres-money-follow/

  95. DJ

    https://www.amren.com/commentary/2017/08/police-stand-charlottesville/

    Why Did the Police Stand Down in Charlottesville?

    Malice, incompetence, image?

    The war of words in our divided country has reached fever pitch in the wake of the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville. It comes as a great surprise, therefore, that everyone seems to agree on one thing: The police did not do their job.

    Readers are probably aware that Unite the Right makes this claim, but the left does, too. In fact, every segment of the left, fractured as it’s been since President Trump’s victory, agrees that the police—for whatever reason—did far too little to limit violence.
    ………….

    While lefties agree that the police failed to maintain order, their explanation for this is different from ours. They think the police are secretly pro-white thugs, eager to see the right run riot on blacks and hippies. But that theory is easily refuted: The police were supposed to protect the rally; they failed, and the rally was aborted.

    Many have forgotten, but in May a smaller cadre of activists held a similar rally at the same statue in the same park. Many of the speakers—Jason Kessler, Richard Spencer, Nathan Damigo—who were present last weekend were there. There was no violence because there were essentially no counterprotestors.

    More at the link

    https://www.amren.com/commentary/2017/08/police-stand-charlottesville/

  96. paulie

    Really, your source is the American Renaissence?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Renaissance_(magazine)

    American Renaissance
    Editor Jared Taylor

    Website amren.com

    American Renaissance (AR or AmRen) is a monthly online magazine described as a white supremacist publication by several sources, including The Washington Post, Fortune, and the Anti-Defamation League.[1][2][3][4] It is published by the New Century Foundation, which describes itself as a “race-realist, white advocacy organization”.[5][6]

    Apparently this bunch believes in “free speech” so much that they think it should not extend to those who oppose their views.

  97. DJ

    They cited their sources.

    White Nationalist Richard Spencer at Rally Over Confederate Statue’s Removal

    Oliver Laughland, The Guardian, May 14, 2017

    https://www.amren.com/news/2017/05/white-nationalist-richard-spencer-rally-confederate-statues-removal/

    make note of the date which was referenced and linked to

    Many have forgotten, but in May a smaller cadre of activists held a similar rally at the same statue in the same park. Many of the speakers—Jason Kessler, Richard Spencer, Nathan Damigo—who were present last weekend were there. There was no violence because there were essentially no counterprotestors.

    White nationalist Richard Spencer at rally over Confederate statue’s removal

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/14/richard-spencer-white-nationalist-virginia-confederate-statue

    The Washington Post write up, “Police in Charlottesville criticized for slow response to violent demonstrations,”

    Police in Charlottesville criticized for slow response to violent demonstrations

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-in-charlottesville-criticized-for-slow-response-to-violent-demonstrations/2017/08/12/869720fc-7f84-11e7-a669-b400c5c7e1cc_story.html?utm_term=.15b7efaca42b

    No More Charlottesvilles

    https://jacobinmag.com/2017/08/charlottesville-racist-march-heather-heyer

    ThinkProgress, one of the Clinton family’s biggest media surrogates, ran an equally frank piece titled, “The police failed Charlottesville:”

    The police failed Charlottesville
    “It’s like they threw up their hands and said, ‘Well, fine, then we don’t do anything.'”
    https://thinkprogress.org/how-police-failed-charlottesville-e191f6eb8e52/

    Here is the “vital center” left at The Atlantic:

    Charlottesville will not be the last small town to face a challenge like Saturday’s, and police departments will have to learn to do a better job of keeping order and preventing bloodshed, while also protecting free speech even by hateful, and hated, groups.

    Could Police Have Prevented Bloodshed in Charlottesville?

    Neo-Nazis and counter-protesters alike think that local and state police should have done a better job keeping violence from breaking out over the weekend.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/could-the-police-have-prevented-bloodshed-in-charlottesville/536775/

  98. paulie

    I guess my latest reply didn’t meet the leftist propaganda since it linked articles from the site paulie doesn’t approve of.

    WTF are you babbling about? You posted straight from a white supremacist site like that’s some fountain of wisdom. So if we don’t give credibility to racists rambling how there would be no violence if no one protested against them that’s “left wing propaganda”? Well at least you exposed what you are really all about.

    Never mind it was 35-0 in hospitalizations and 1-0 in deaths. Never mind that white racist terrorists have carried out more attacks than any other groups in recent decades in the US, with a body count second only to Muslim extremists, while leftist violence has been limited to property damage and a few punches thrown. Granted that’s also not good in any way but equating the two is ridiculous.

  99. paulie

    . There was no violence because there were essentially no counterprotestors.

    Yeah you said that already. So the only way nazis can restrain themselves from committing violence is if no one protests against them. Is that supposed to be a point in their favor?

    Neo-Nazis and counter-protesters alike think that local and state police should have done a better job keeping violence from breaking out over the weekend.

    Yes, we all agree on that one. Is someone disputing that? Why do you keep trying to prove what is not disputed?

  100. Andy

    There is a big statue of Christopher Columbus in downtown Columbus, Ohio. The lefty Antifa commies want to tear this statue down. Ironically, they are doing the same thing that the Ku Klux Klan wanted tried to do years ago (the KKK wanted to tear the Columbus statue down because he was an Italian Catholic).

    In attacking Columbus, Antifa tries to finish what the Klan started

    http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/civil-rights/347955-in-attacking-columbus-antifa-protesters-try-to-finish-what

  101. Andy

    Think it sounds crazy that the FBI would create “right wing” false flags, or false flags in general? Think again, as the evidence indicates that they did just this in Oklahoma earlier this year.

    Great reporting from Luke Rudkowski of We Are Change.

    FBI Creating Right Wing False Flags Uncovered?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmI-0sl3aSA

  102. paulie

    I don’t think it sounds crazy at all that the FBI would create false flags. I think it sounds crazy that every time there is a terrorist incident some people jump to the conclusion that it’s a false flag. I mean every single freakin’ time. Are there no actual terrorists in the world?

    Additionally, the regime is not the only one creating false flags. Apparently there is now an organized effort by 4chan fascists to create dummy antifa twitter and other social media accounts and spread “punch a nazi” memes featuring women being punched or having black eyes etc. On the other hand that sort of trolling is what the “punch a nazi” people get for spreading the idea that it’s OK to punch (first) just because someone’s ideas are repugnant even if they haven’t acted on them.

  103. paulie

    There is a big statue of Christopher Columbus in downtown Columbus, Ohio. The lefty Antifa commies want to tear this statue down. Ironically, they are doing the same thing that the Ku Klux Klan wanted tried to do years ago (the KKK wanted to tear the Columbus statue down because he was an Italian Catholic).

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The Klan had the wrong reason for believing Columbus should not have been lauded, but they were correct that he should not have been. He was a genocidal slaver and mass murderer.

    http://www.americanindiansource.com/columbusday.html

    Is this really the kind of “hero” that we need to have venerated by the regime at public expense? I don’t think so. That’s aside from the bigger point that the regime should get out of the business of venerating heroes with public statues in the first place.

  104. paulie

    Since it seems to be the position of some here that we need statues maintained by government on government property to commemorate every aspect of history, where do statues of Adolf Hitler and his generals need to be placed? Germany? The US? Both? Neither?

    Like the confederates, Hitler killed and enslaved a lot of people. Like the confederates, he led a regime that waged war against the United States. Like these confederate statues, these proposed Hitler statues would be put up several decades after their deaths. Like the confederate statues, the Unite the Right marchers were big fans of Hitler and his generals and ministers. Like the CSA, Hitler lost the war. Hitler and the CSA both believed in white supremacy and both of them were gross violators of civil rights and civil liberties. So, it seems they have a few things in common. And hey, you can’t deny they are both part of history.

    So I guess now the only question is when and where these Hitler statues go up. Right?

  105. NewFederalist

    We are truly a nation without problems if all we have to concern ourselves with is the taking down of statues which have been standing for a century. Besides, where else are the pigeons supposed to take a shit?

  106. paulie

    We are truly a nation without problems if all we have to concern ourselves with is the taking down of statues which have been standing for a century.

    See the WaPo link from 8:53 am for counterpoint.

    Besides, where else are the pigeons supposed to take a shit?

    I’ll make a prediction. I think the pigeons will be just fine. Okay? But, but I won’t do it tonight because I don’t want to cause any controversy, is that alright? But pigeons can feel good.

    I remember a pigeon take a shit on a statue of Lenin when I was a little kid in Russia. It happened right as our teacher, or perhaps a tour guide of some sort, was telling us what a great man he was. I can’t remember if I laughed out loud but it was very funny. Anyway, I’m guessing that the statue is probably gone now, and if it is, the great-great-grandchildren of those same pigeons are having no problem at all in finding places to take a crap.

  107. Andy

    I just found another historic figure whose statues should be torn down. After all, if statues of anyone from the Confederate States of America should be torn down, and statues of the Founding Fathers of this country should be torn down, and statues of Christopher Columbus should be torn down, why stop with this? How about be consistent, and tear down all statuses to anyone who ever did anything that might have been immoral, or is perceived as having been immoral.

    Who is the next person to add to the “Tear That Statue Down” list? Mahatma Gandhi.

    Yes, that’s right, that India Indian guy who was supposedly all about peace and non-violent resistance.

    It turns out that he was also a racist and a pedophile.

    Mahatma Gandhi – A Pedophile Racist EXPOSED

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRV8PYDIa8I

  108. paulie

    We’ve been over this. The issue with the confederate statues was not simply that they were racists. Lincoln was a racist, almost anyone of any note back then was a racist. The issue is that they led and fought a slaveholders rebellion against the US to preserve slavery, as their letters of secession make clear. They waged war against the US and killed hundreds of thousands of Americans, just like the nazis that the fascist Charlottesville marchers also idolize. Did Ghandi do that? Who that did do that do we have a bunch of statues to in this country? Should we put up statues to Hitler and nazi generals and ministers too?

    The other issue with these statues was why they were put up when they were. They were put up as a specific statement about resurgent white supremacy decades after the people depicted in the statues died. Their placement had to do with the reimposition of Jim Crow and segregation, the rebirth of the KKK and the fight to stop desegregation. They sent a message loud and clear, and it’s a message that continues to be sent as our racist criminal “justice” system continues to disproportionately kill, humiliate, harass and enslave the descendents of slaves, and to keep them “in their place” the same ways that the overseers did.

  109. paulie

    KRS One – Sound of da police

    Lyrics:

    Chorus:

    Woop-woop!
    That’s the sound of da police!
    Woop-woop!
    That’s the sound of the beast!

    Verse One:

    Stand clear! Don man a-talk
    You can’t stand where I stand, you can’t walk where I walk
    Watch out! We run New York
    Police man come, we bust him out the park
    I know this for a fact, you don’t like how I act
    You claim I’m sellin’ crack
    But you be doin’ that
    I’d rather say “see ya”
    Cause I would never be ya
    Be a officer? You WICKED overseer!
    Ya hotshot, wanna get props and be a saviour
    First show a little respect, change your behavior
    Change your attitude, change your plan
    There could never really be justice on stolen land
    Are you really for peace and equality?
    Or when my car is hooked up, you know you wanna follow me
    Your laws are minimal
    Cause you won’t even think about lookin’ at the real criminal
    This has got to cease
    Cause we be getting HYPED to the sound of da police!

    Chorus

    Verse Two:

    Now here’s a likkle truth
    Open up your eye
    While you’re checking out the boom-bap, check the exercise
    Take the word “overseer,” like a sample
    Repeat it very quickly in a crew for example
    Overseer
    Overseer
    Overseer
    Overseer
    Officer, Officer, Officer, Officer!
    Yeah, officer from overseer
    You need a little clarity?
    Check the similarity!
    The overseer rode around the plantation
    The officer is off patroling all the nation
    The overseer could stop you what you’re doing
    The officer will pull you over just when he’s pursuing
    The overseer had the right to get ill
    And if you fought back, the overseer had the right to kill
    The officer has the right to arrest
    And if you fight back they put a hole in your chest!
    (Woop!) They both ride horses
    After 400 years, I’ve _got_ no choices!
    The police them have a little gun
    So when I’m on the streets, I walk around with a bigger one
    (Woop-woop!) I hear it all day
    Just so they can run the light and be upon their way

    Chorus

    Verse Three:

    Check out the message in a rough stylee
    The real criminals are the C-O-P
    You check for undercover and the one PD
    But just a mere Black man, them want check me
    Them check out me car for it shine like the sun
    But them jealous or them vexed cause them can’t afford one
    Black people still slaves up til today
    But the Black police officer nah see it that way
    Him want a salary
    Him want it
    So he put on a badge and kill people for it
    My grandfather had to deal with the cops
    My great-grandfather dealt with the cops
    My GREAT grandfather had to deal with the cops
    And then my great, great, great, great… when it’s gonna stop?!

  110. Ad Hoc

    ” why stop with this? How about be consistent, and tear down all statuses to anyone ”

    Good idea. Tear down all statues to anyone no matter what they did on government property. It’s not a necessary or proper function of government even if we grant that government has any necessary or proper functions at all. In what universe do we need all the voters and politicians wasting time arguing about who is worthy of a statue? Get them all off government property, other than museums, which don’t necessarily have to be government property either.

    As for private property, if someone puts up statues to whoever or whatever they want, that should naturally be their own business. Problem solved!

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