The Jack News: Is Gov. Bill Weld Taking a Serious Look at the 2020 Libertarian Presidential Race?

The Jack News:

Bill Weld, the former two-term governor of Massachusetts and Vice Presidential candidate for the Libertarian party in 2016 is a major figure in the race for the Libertarian Presidential nomination in 2020. That is if he decides to run.

Many credit him with providing a massive boost to credibility, media coverage, and fundraising when he joined Gary Johnson on the 2016 Libertarian ticket. However, his deviations in the 2016 race from libertarian orthodoxy on some issues riled up critics, and he only secured the vice-presidential nomination narrowly on the second ballot after a heated floor fight.

Additionally, many were also upset over his comments defending Hillary Clinton against accusations by Donald Trump.

Against those potential negatives, though, Gov. Weld still has serious accomplishments to his credit. As governor, he fired 10 percent of the state’s workforce on his first day in office. And presided over rare year-over-year reductions in state government spending.

Weld embraced the label “libertarian,” even before 2016, and frequently invoked the line “coercive taxation is theft” in his speeches. Widely respected by the media and both sides of the two-party aisle, few candidates would have a better chance of making it onto the coveted debate stage.

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70 thoughts on “The Jack News: Is Gov. Bill Weld Taking a Serious Look at the 2020 Libertarian Presidential Race?

  1. Steven R Linnabary

    I personally have no interest in supporting a candidate that only shows up at the last minute to steal the limelight.

    We will see what he plans to do in 2018 in whichever adopted state he chooses. Where is his home now? NH, MA, or NY?

    If he does something, anything, in 2018, maybe then I can support him in 2020. He just might make a decent congressional, senate of gubernatorial candidate.

    PEACE

  2. Anthony Dlugos

    I doubt very seriously he would consider running; he’ll just be too old, but to drive away the lunatic fringe and Small Potatoes Caucus, it might be worth it.

  3. Andy

    Bill Weld should not even be considered as a candidate for any office by the Libertarian Party. If anything, he should be kicked out of the party.

  4. Anthony Dlugos

    Hell, I’d support Weld just on the off chance it gets Andy to take his dog and pony show to the better-fitting Constitution Party.

  5. One who knows...

    Well if anything, the Libertarians don’t deserve a quality nominee such as Bill Weld and if they had any brains they would have already kicked Andy Jacobs out a long time ago. But they haven’t, hence my first point.

  6. Matthew Schutter

    HELL NO! This scumbag should be thrown out of the Party NOT be our Presidential candidate!

  7. Michael

    The LP does regular conference calls where activists and officers talk about their expertise.

    Governor Weld should do one of these calls. He should talk about his political experience winning election and winning re-election in a state with a large majority of voters not registered in his party. He has knowledge and skills that thousands of other Libertarians can learn from.

    Yeah go ahead, gun control, praising Hillary, all those things, ugh. I would have to think a long time before supporting him as a candidate. However he can help other Libertarians without being a candidate.

  8. Stuart Simms

    If Gov. Weld gets the Libertarian nomination for President, who will he endorse for President?

  9. Andy

    “Michael
    August 7, 2017 at 20:47
    The LP does regular conference calls where activists and officers talk about their expertise.

    Governor Weld should do one of these calls. He should talk about his political experience winning election and winning re-election in a state with a large majority of voters not registered in his party. He has knowledge and skills that thousands of other Libertarians can learn from.”

    No Libertarian should give a shit what Bill Weld has to say about anything.

  10. whatever

    No Libertarian should give a shit what Bill Weld Andy has to say about anything.

  11. Andy

    “Anthony Dlugos
    August 7, 2017 at 19:49
    Hell, I’d support Weld just on the off chance it gets Andy to take his dog and pony show to the better-fitting Constitution Party.”

    The Constitution Party is not really better-fitting for me, being that I’m an anarcho-capitalist, which means that I don’t support any coercive government, which puts me at odds with the Constitution.

    I only support the Constitution to the point that if it were actually followed, I think that we’d be better off than we are now, since government would be a lot smaller if the Constitution were actually followed, but the fact remains that even if the Constitution were followed, it still establishes a coercive state. The Constitution is also not a valid contract, because nobody living today signed it.

    Why don’t you and Bill Weld go to the better-fitting Republican Party?

    I have not left the Libertarian Party, even though I think that the last three LP presidential tickets sucked, and were not really libertarian. The Libertarian Party has still had a lot of good candidates running for other offices, in spite of its last three presidential tickets sucking.

    What will I do in 2020 if the Libertarian Party nominates Bill Weld for President, or somebody like him? I don’t know, beyond saying that I won’t support such a candidate.

    If Bill Weld, or somebody like him, is nominated for the LP’s presidential ticket in 2020, I think that it will be time for serious discussion about shutting the party down.

    A perfect candidate probably does not exist, and we all probably have different definitions of what a perfect candidate is. I just want somebody who I consider to be plausibly “libertarian enough” who I can feel good about supporting. I enthusiastically supported Harry Browne for President in 1996 and in 2000, and Michael Badnarik in 2004. It would be nice to see the Libertarian Party have a presidential ticket that I can root for again.

  12. Andy

    “whatever
    August 7, 2017 at 22:50
    No Libertarian should give a shit what Bill Weld Andy has to say about anything.”

    No libertarian should give a shit about what some coward posting under fake names, like “whatever,” has to say about anything.

  13. Daemon Sims

    If a-holes like “Ron Paul Caesar” successfully take over the Libertarian Party and nominate Donald Trump for president in 2020, would you support him as your party’s nominee?

  14. Dave

    I have trouble seeing him getting the nomination. He barely got VP last year, so it seems that 51% or whatever is the absolute ceiling of his support, since I can’t imagine many people unwilling to support him for VP would do so for president. And it would seem to me that at least some of those who voted for him did so so that Johnson could have his preferred running mate.

    My money’s still on Amash being the nominee after a failed run against Trump in the GOP primary. Boosts his name recognition, then he can cross on over to the LP and be seen as a star(especially if he “converts” to the party while in office and gives it its first LP congressman.)

  15. Michael

    Andy wrote:
    “No Libertarian should give a shit what Bill Weld has to say about anything.”

    I’m going to disagree with you on that.

    If and when a libertarian decides to put effort into enabling more people to be more free, they can decide to work for a political party, or they can decide to do any number of other things such as create technology that enables people to rely less on the government.

    If they choose the party route, then an effective party will enable more liberty than an ineffective party. The Libertarian Party has a long track record of ineffectiveness (of not changing public policy). LP candidates need to learn effectiveness wherever they can. That means learning from people who have succeeded at politics, even if their overlap of political agreement with us is only 90%, or 70%, or 10%.

  16. Aiden James

    Dave…. Can’t do that. A few states have a state law that prohibits a failed primary candidate from getting on the ballot as an independent or a candidate from another party. That’s why Johnson wasn’t on the ballot in Michigan in 2012. Nor is Amash a libertarian, much like Rand Paul isn’t either.

  17. Tony From Long Island

    I already love this thread. As soon as I saw the headline I knew exactly whose face would be bright red.

  18. paulie

    Up until Michigan screwed Johnson over in 2012 sore loser laws were generally not applied to presidential candidates because the real candidates are the presidential electors or the delegates to the convention who are not the same set of people. However, since that time several states did apply them to Rocky de la Fuente, and Amash would actually have to come over which may or may not happen. From what I read yesterday he would not be able to run for Congress if he also runs for president; that varies from state to state but in his case he can’t.

  19. paulie

    If they choose the party route, then an effective party will enable more liberty than an ineffective party. The Libertarian Party has a long track record of ineffectiveness (of not changing public policy). LP candidates need to learn effectiveness wherever they can. That means learning from people who have succeeded at politics, even if their overlap of political agreement with us is only 90%, or 70%, or 10%.

    How exactly is Weld’s experience as Governor going to help longshot campaigns for office? They are different sorts of things entirely and require completely different skills and approaches.

  20. paulie

    I have trouble seeing him getting the nomination. He barely got VP last year, so it seems that 51% or whatever is the absolute ceiling of his support, since I can’t imagine many people unwilling to support him for VP would do so for president. And it would seem to me that at least some of those who voted for him did so so that Johnson could have his preferred running mate.

    It will depend on who shows up. If Weld is running for the nomination, presumably he will make an effort to recruit people to become delegates, and will visit state conventions to make a case for himself. As the past VP nominee he will have “credibility” which he did not have when he had just been announced and was brand new to the party, other than that one time he screwed over LPNY which was largely excused away or swept under the rug. I would not presume that 51% is the “absolute ceiling” of his support.

  21. Andy

    Whether or not Bill Weld or somebody like him gets nominated by the LP in 2020 will depend on how many government plants show up at the convention, versus how many actual libertarian Libertarians show up at the convention. Also relevant will be how many well meaning but naive Libertarians will buy into the bullshit spewed forth by the fake establishment shill candidate, and their band of Republican establishment consultants, government spooks, and other paid shills.

    Hopefully, enough actual libertarian Libertarians who don’t have their heads completely shoved up their asses will show up at the convention in 2020, and the LP can once again run a ticket that is actually plausibly “libertarian enough” to not be a complete embarrassment to people who actually care about liberty.

  22. Anthony Dlugos

    “Whether or not Bill Weld or somebody like him gets nominated by the LP in 2020 will depend on how many government plants show up at the convention, versus how many actual libertarian Libertarians show up at the convention.”

    There’s the conspiratorial nutjob Andy we all know and love!

    Well, the nutjob we all know, at least.

  23. Andy

    Paul said: “How exactly is Weld’s experience as Governor going to help longshot campaigns for office? They are different sorts of things entirely and require completely different skills and approaches.”

    Yes, Bill Weld’s experience in how to be a lying, two-faced, weasel mainstream politician is of little to no relevance to anyone running as a Libertarian.

  24. Maurice Kane

    Hopefully, enough actual libertarian Libertarians who don’t have their heads completely shoved up their asses will show up at the convention in 2020, and the LP can once again run a ticket that is actually *plausibly* “libertarian enough” (and plausible enough!) to not be a complete embarrassment to people who actually care about liberty, just as we did in 2012 and 2016. Unlike Andy who is in fact such a complete embarrassment.

    As so many have noted here Andy with his crazy, embarrassing rants about immigration, Muslims, abortion, et tedious cetera, belongs more in the Constitution or Republican Party or perhaps the American Freedom Party than he does in the LP, and whatever libertarian views he still holds have been “trumped” by his wacky xenophobia…so it’s rather ironic that this loony follower of Alex Jones, Breitbart, Pamela Gellar, Hans Hoppe, Chris Cantwell and Stefan Molyneux wants to set himself up as some sort of libertarian purity police….when almost everyone he follows has come out of the closet as an Alt Right racist Trumptard or worse.

    I mean, we *could* go back to running “constitutional patriots” who forego drivers licenses and income taxes but let’s hope the party has moved beyond that (and moves beyond associating with and employing Andy soon as well).

  25. Anthony Dlugos

    “Heck, I’m guessing no one from “The Jack” even bothered to ask Weld himself!

    Until he actually shows interest himself, I’ll consider this just link bait.”

    Those are good assumptions.

  26. Tony From Long Island

    Watch out Maurice, Andy is now going to claim that you are a government troll using an Anonymizer.

    However, your post was spot-on. You do, though, have to do a better job with quoting others so it is clear what are your own words and what you are quoting.

  27. Anthony Dlugos

    “As so many have noted here Andy with his crazy, embarrassing rants about immigration, Muslims, abortion, et tedious cetera, belongs more in the Constitution or Republican Party or perhaps the American Freedom Party than he does in the LP…”

    Correct. Whatever points of agreement Andy may have with the LP, they are more than swamped by a general conspiratorial, “world is out to get us” mentality that is more in line with the CP or the American Freedom Party, as you point out. Note Chuck Baldwin’s recent rant about the Jews running the world.

    ts much easier to buy into the xenophobic rants about hoardes of Mexicans and Muslims coming to take over when you already believe the world is run by Satan and the Christians will eventually be targeted for elimination by The Beast.

    He’s in the wrong party.

  28. Matt

    The Jack News appears to be a Ron Nielson project. Under “featured writers” they list Gary Johnson and Jim Gray. Staff: Ron Nielson, executive editor; Drew Clark, editor; Joe Hunter, opinion editor; J. Wilson, Digital Director and Senior Writer; Jim Bennett (United Utah Party and son of former US Senator), Senior Writer; Andy Craig, Senior Writer.

    They don’t have ads at this point, other than for OAI, another Ron Nielson project, so I don’t think it’s linkbait so much as Nielson’s machinations. The article is part of what promises to be a 9-part series about various prospective 2020 LP potus nomination candidates. The into to the series is at https://thejacknews.com/politics/political-highlights/jack-news-guide-libertarian-party-presidential-race-2020/ and the would be candidates profiled so far are Tom Campbell, Justin Amash, Bill Weld (this piece) and Adam Kokesh. Amash is also included in speculation about prospective Republican primary challengers to Trump in the same article.

  29. Andy

    “Maurice Kane
    August 8, 2017 at 09:40
    ‘Hopefully, enough actual libertarian Libertarians who don’t have their heads completely shoved up their asses will show up at the convention in 2020, and the LP can once again run a ticket that is actually ‘plausibly’ “libertarian enough” (and plausible enough!) to not be a complete embarrassment to people who actually care about liberty, just as we did in 2012 and 2016. Unlike Andy who is in fact such a complete embarrassment.’

    As so many have noted here Andy with his crazy, embarrassing rants about immigration, Muslims, abortion, et tedious cetera, belongs more in the Constitution or Republican Party or perhaps the American Freedom Party than he does in the LP, and whatever libertarian views he still holds have been ‘trumped’ by his wacky xenophobia…so it’s rather ironic that this loony follower of Alex Jones, Breitbart, Pamela Gellar, Hans Hoppe, Chris Cantwell and Stefan Molyneux wants to set himself up as some sort of libertarian purity police….when almost everyone he follows has come out of the closet as an Alt Right racist Trumptard or worse.”

    Who the fuck is Maurice Kane? Funny how these posters we’ve never heard of before seem to pop up here and know an awful lot about what is going on at IPR.

    Who are you? Are you an LP member? If so, which state affiliate are you are member of?

    I support freedom of association and property rights. I don’t believe that you can have a free society if you are surrounded by people with Marxist or theocratic ideologies. The existence of the welfare state and democratic elections, with a path to citizenship which includes a naturalization test that does a lousy job teaching people about the Constitution means that a disturbingly high percentage of modern day immigrants are in fact a threat to liberty in America.

    If we lived in a private property anarcho-capitalist society, who can migrate/immigrate to where would be a function of the market, and there’d be no government welfare programs (since government welfare programs, and taxation would not exist), and no chance of a new group of people moving in somewhere and altering the election outcomes since there’d be no democratic elections (unless it was conducted by a voluntary organization, but of course in such case, the results of the election would only apply to those who voluntarily consented to it).

    Since we do not live in a private property anacho-capitalist society, immigration is going to be a political issue, and that’s all there is to it, so given this, I do not support the leftists and globalists who are using immigration to import people into the country who are in support of their political agenda (as in expanding the welfare state, enacting more gun control laws, and moving in the direction of global government). If a super-majority of modern day immigrants were libertarians and small government types who rejected the welfare state, I’d be willing to bet that the leftists and globalists would not want them here, but of course the opposite of this is true.

    I do not support Donald Trump, and never have.

    I have followed Alex Jones for a long time, but I do not follow Breitbart or Pamela Gellar. I may have posted one or two articles I found by them in a search, but I have never followed either of their websites, and I have read or posted articles by lots of people, many of whom I can’t even recall their names. Does anyone know the name of the person who wrote every news article you have ever read in your life? I doubt it.

    Alex Jones has put out a lot of stuff over the years. He was one of the loudest voices exposing 9/11 and other false flags, and he was one of the main drivers behind the success of the Ron Paul money bombs. Alex Jones has also provided a platform for Libertarian Party, and other minor party and independent candidates to speak, while the mainstream media largely ignored them. Alex Jones has in fact called himself a libertarian on multiple occasions, and he has even endorsed Libertarian Party candidates. I don’t agree with him for getting behind Donald Trump, but I can see why he did it, as he has long hated Bill and Hillary Clinton (and for good reasons), and he believed that Hillary had to be stopped, so, given that there were no other viable options in the presidential race (note that Jones did support Gary Johnson in 2012, but by 2016, Gary Johnson had exposed himself as a fraud, so he revoked his support for him, and Darrell Castle of the Constitution Party was only on the ballot in 24 states (he was not on the ballot in Texas, where Jones lives), so he was not really even that viable as a protest vote), so he decided to play the “lesser of two evils game” by supporting Trump, as he perceived Trump to be the “lesser evil” as compared to Hillary Clinton. Just because I don’t agree with Alex Jones when it comes to jumping on the Trump bandwagon, Alex and his Infowars crew are still putting out a lot of good material, and they have in fact criticized some of the things Trump has done (like the attack against Syria, and for Attorney General Jeff Sessions wanting to increase civil asset forfeitures, for just a couple of examples).

    Hans-Hermann Hoppe and Stefan Molyneux are both libertarians, and have been for a long time. Hoppe was a protege of libertarian icon, Murray Rothbard, and he is part of the Ludwig von MIses Institute, which is one of the most renowned libertarian organizations in the world. Libertarians who, in my opinion, lean too far tot he left, demonize Hoppe because when he provides his opinion of what a libertarian anarcho-capitalist society would look like, he says that some people with conservative social views may form voluntary communities where they discriminate against gays, or discriminate against people on the basis of race or ethnicity or religion. Under libertarianism, people have the right to associate, or not associate, with whoever they want, for whatever reason, so a property owner, or groups of property owners, could form enclaves with like minded people. If one thinks that one enclave is too conservative, then go to an enclave that is more liberal, as I’m sure that under anacho-capitalism, enclaves such as these would form as well. Stefan Molyneux has done a lot to spread libertarian philosophy, and he’s been a featured speaker at a bunch of libertarian conferences. He’s been one of the most vocal proponents of peaceful parenting, as in that parents should not hit or berate their kids. He believes that parents who hit, and/or berate their kids leads to future social problems, and a less libertarian society, and I agree with him on this. Molyneux did cheer lead for Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton, mush for the same reasons that Alex Jones did, and I don’t really agree with him on this, but it was a bad set of circumstances (and Molyneux is not even an American citizen, and he in fact lives in Canada, so he can’t even vote in this country).

    Now as far as Christopher Cantwell goes, I don’t agree with him on everything (of course, I don’t agree with anyone on everything), and I don’t like some of the direction he has gone (jumping on the Trump train, using racial/ethnic epithets, talking about throwing leftists out of helicopters (I could see a case for throwing the ringleaders out, but not the average stupid, brainwashed leftist, who are just “useful idiots”:) ), but he does have a background as a libertarian, and he still considers himself to be one.

    This “Maurice Kane” fellow, who I have never heard of, acts like he knows “everyone I follow,” as if I am a follower type of person, as in implying that I mindlessly follow people, and don’t think for myself, which is something I have never done in my life. First of all, I don’t know “Maurice Kane,” so I don’t know where some person I don’t know gets off making statements about me. Second of all, I read lots of articles and books, and I’ve watched lots of videos online, and I have attended a lot of events over the years where lots of people have spoken. The list of people who have put out content that I have read, or watched/listened to would be a pretty long list. Harry Browne, Ron Paul, L. Neil Smith, Murray Rothbard, Irwin Schiff, Lew Rockwell, Bob Schulz, Larken Rose, Tom Woods, Stefan Molyneux, Hans-Hermann Hoppe, G. Edward Griffin, Dave Champion, Alex Jones, Michael Badnarik, etc… In addition to Independent Political Report, I regularly visit Ballot Access News, LewRockwell.com, Infowars.com, FreedomsPhoenix.com (Ernie Hancock’s news site), and The Libertarian Enterprise (L. Neil Smith’s site). There are lots of YouTube channels I like, such as WeAreChange, RedSilverJ, Operation Terror (former LP VP candidate, Art Olivier’s channel), Adam Kokesh, Stefan Molyneux, The Tom Woods Show, The Dave Champion Show, The No State Project (Marc Stevens), Mark Dice, ThatGuyT, The Dollar Vigilante (Jeff Berwick), etc… Sometimes I listen to Free Talk Live, and I sometimes check out what the folks at Free Keene are doing.

    “Maurice Kane,” I don’t know who you are. You pop up on here talking about me and making accusations against me. Why don’t you tell us about yourself, things that can be verified, preferably (since the internet is full of bullshitters)?

    Notice how mysterious posters pop up here who like to play these accusation and guilt-by-association games. Like I have followed Alex Jones on and off (it is not like I listen or visit his site every day) since October of 2001, and Jones got behind Trump, so therefore it must mean that I support Trump. Ridiculous.

    This is like saying that if you ever turn on a television set and watch a news show, that you must agree with everything that the person on news shows says or does. So if you have ever watched say Rachel Maddow, or Bill O’Reilly (I recall hearing that his show got canceled), that you must support everything they have ever said or done. If you listen to a song, or watch a movie, then you must agree with everything that the people who made this song or movie have ever said or done. Etc…

  30. Andy

    I just did a search for Maurice Kane, to see if there is a Maurice Kane in the Libertarian Party. So far, the only thing that has come up has been the “Maurice Kane” in this thread.

  31. Andy

    “Anthony Dlugos
    August 8, 2017 at 12:19
    I think its my turn with Andy:

    TL;DR”

    Yes, it is a lot easier to make accusations, and then stick your fingers in your ears and run away.

  32. Matt

    Wow…Andy sure does pollute his mind on a very regular basis with a lot of far right, racist, bigoted garbage in audio, video and print form. And then spends countless hours relentlessly spewing it on IPR and how many other places? Very, very sad. And very ironic that he would presume to tell other people who is or is not libertarian enough, when he has basically gone alt right himself (even though he is not a full blown Trumptard himself he is fully immersed in the vile revomit of alt right Trumptard after alt right Trumptard, and even the alt right bigots he listens to who are not Trumptards are still alt right bigots nevertheless).

  33. Tony From Long Island

    Andy:

    I just did a search for Maurice Kane, to see if there is a Maurice Kane in the Libertarian Party. So far, the only thing that has come up has been the “Maurice Kane” in this thread.

    So predictable . . .

  34. Andy

    “Matt
    August 8, 2017 at 12:40
    Wow…Andy sure does pollute his mind on a very regular basis with a lot of far right, racist, bigoted garbage in audio, video and print form. And then spends countless hours relentlessly spewing it on IPR and how many other places? Very, very sad. And very ironic that he would presume to tell other people who is or is not libertarian enough, when he has basically gone alt right himself (even though he is not a full blown Trumptard himself he is fully immersed in the vile revomit of alt right Trumptard after alt right Trumptard, and even the alt right bigots he listens to who are not Trumptards are still alt right bigots nevertheless).”

    Wow, another mysterious poster pops up on IPR making accusations and guilt-by-association smears.

    I have not altered any issue stances in many years.

    My goals are clearly libertarian. I seek a voluntary society, or at least as close to one as possible.

    Why don’t you tell us a little about yourself, “Matt”? Are you an LP member? Where do you reside? Do you know “Maurice King”?

  35. Andy

    “Matt
    August 8, 2017 at 12:40
    Wow…Andy sure does pollute his mind on a very regular basis with a lot of far right, racist, bigoted garbage in audio, video and print form. And then spends countless hours relentlessly spewing it on IPR and how many other places? Very, very sad. And very ironic that he would presume to tell other people who is or is not libertarian enough, when he has basically gone alt right himself (even though he is not a full blown Trumptard himself he is fully immersed in the vile revomit of alt right Trumptard after alt right Trumptard, and even the alt right bigots he listens to who are not Trumptards are still alt right bigots nevertheless).”

    Wow, another mysterious poster pops up on IPR making accusations and guilt-by-association smears.

    Why don’t you tell us more about yourself, “Matt”? Where do you currently reside? Are you an LP member? Do you know “Maurice King”?

  36. Andy

    “Tony From Long Island
    August 8, 2017 at 12:44
    ‘Andy:

    I just did a search for Maurice Kane, to see if there is a Maurice Kane in the Libertarian Party. So far, the only thing that has come up has been the ‘Maurice Kane’ in this thread.’

    So predictable . .”

    Well, if some mysterious person pops up here making a bunch of accusations and smears, I want to know who this person is, especially given the number of trolls who have popped up here over the years.

  37. Anthony Dlugos

    Some libertarians have really bought into the right-wing shibboleth that the Clintons….Hillary especially….are/is the apex example of every bad statist idea ever invented.

    I don’t think such people would have had anything like the same response had Governors Johnson & Weld made the exact same response about President Cheeto. In fact, as we know, some of these poor souls actually thought/may still think Trump can be of some value, a comical thought.

  38. Thomas L. Knapp

    Quoth Andy,

    “If Bill Weld, or somebody like him, is nominated for the LP’s presidential ticket in 2020, I think that it will be time for serious discussion about shutting the party down.”

    I agree, but unfortunately that would also be an indicator that unserious people remain in the driver’s seat in the party. You can’t have a serious discussion with unserious people.

  39. Tony From Long Island

    Nominating Bill Weld would probably be the only way I would vote Libertarian for POTUS again 🙂

  40. Andy

    Tony, that just confirms the data that I, and some other petition circulators who have been in the field gathering signatures, pre-2016 general election, and post-2016 general election, and that is that the people who have made favorable comments about Bill Weld are not remotely libertarian, and are people that would typically not consider voting for any kind of libertarian candidate for anything. The people I have encountered that are actually libertarian, or libertarian leaning, all had a negative view of Weld. Fortunately, there are also lots of people out there who do not know who Bill Weld is.

  41. Tony From Long Island

    No. It confirms that I have been saying – that I am a democrat with moderate libertarian tendencies.

    Anything you say about Weld is tainted by your neurotic hatred of him and can not be taken seriously.

  42. Andy

    Yes, and a Democrat with moderate libertarian tendencies is not a libertarian.

    You can call me a liar if you want, I am just reporting the data I have received from the public, and that other petition circulators I have spoken to about this have also received, which is that the few people who have had anything good to say about Bill Weld have not been libertarian, and that the actual libertarians, or strong libertarian leaders, have made negative comments about Weld.

    Honestly, a lot of the votes that Johnson/Weld received were just protest votes against Clinton and Trump. There really was not that much enthusiasm for the Johnson/Weld to ticket.

  43. langa

    Some libertarians have really bought into the right-wing shibboleth that the Clintons….Hillary especially….are/is the apex example of every bad statist idea ever invented.

    Some libertarians have bought into the establishment shibboleth that hatred of the left implies support for the right (or vice versa).

  44. Jill Pyeatt

    Some libertarians have really bought into the right-wing shibboleth that the Clintons….Hillary especially….are/is the apex example of every bad statist idea ever invented.

    I didn’t need the right wing to tell me Hillary is a sociopathic criminal who should be in prison. I figured it out my own self.

  45. Anthony Dlugos

    How many politicians shouldn’t be in prison?

    As bad as her political ideas are, she would have been better than Cheeto.

  46. dL

    dL – umm I don’t get it. Was that supposed to be humorous?

    nah, this one is supposed to be the funny one

  47. paulie

    Funny, but no longer accurate.

    Fidel Alejandro Castro Ruz was a Cuban revolutionary and politician who governed the Republic of Cuba as Prime Minister from 1959 to 1976 and then as President from 1976 to 2008. Wikipedia
    Born: August 13, 1926, Birán, Cuba
    Died: November 25, 2016, Havana, Cuba

    You don’t have Castro to kick around anymore 🙂

  48. dL

    Funny, but no longer accurate.

    he was alive when I made it….

    my original respectability politics 2020 dynamic duo was

  49. Anthony Dlugos

    When did a pro-immigration, pro-choice, anti-patriot act, anti-drug war governor with a reticence to use military action become an “authentic” republican? Or is this just another case of the Small Potatoes caucus using previous affiliations to try and run anyone with a resume/experience out of the party, so the party can be left with only catastrophically unqualified clowns?

  50. dL

    When did a pro-immigration, pro-choice, anti-patriot act, anti-drug war governor with a reticence to use military action become an “authentic” republican?

    When he pleaded for a pro-Patriot Act , not all that anti-drug war ex-GOP governor running mate?

  51. Anthony Dlugos

    I concede Weld wasn’t at the apex of the Nolan chart.

    It is comical, however, that Weld is by turns called a “republican retread” and then a closet liberal who we must never forget vouched for the ultimate liberal babadook, Hillary Clinton.

    This is more evidence, in my opinion, that there is a quasi-religious segment of the LP that sees any previous experience in office at all as sinful behavior, rather than the actions of an imperfect being who sometimes makes good policy choices, and sometimes makes bad policy choices. Such folk are not looking for a person to inhabit a mere job, they are a looking for the next pope (or vice pope), who speaketh the word of lord rothbard in canonical form, and will ascend to the thrones of power in white raiment, a sin-free creature, as anyone who carries the party name must be.

    There’s nothing in the platform, nor in the realm of common sense, that indicates our nominees, or any LP candidate, has to be at the apex of the chart. There’s not even a rule that the chart itself is required as a metric, frankly speaking.

    Given that the rest of the options in Orlando had a grand total of ZERO experience in office, or some relevant private sector experience, I’m not sure what choice we had. Given that the only remotely qualified presidential option we had was asking for this candidate as his v.p., I’m not sure what choice we had. If you want to decry the reality that Governor Johnson had us over a barrel in that regard, then go right ahead. The solution isn’t to eliminate experience/resume as a criteria entirely. What should we have done? Told Johnson to stuff it and nominate a farmer who’s never held office? Talk about self-destructive behavior.

    Unless, as I said, experience in some executive position isn’t relevant AT ALL, and then I have to ask exactly what you think the job itself entails. In no other industry would a ration person suggest mere good ideas is sufficient for a vice president position at a major company.

  52. dL

    I concede Weld wasn’t at the apex of the Nolan chart.

    I can a rat’s ass about the Nolan Chart, or any chart for that matter. I look at the issues. Patriot Act/Surveillance, Immigration/Security State, Militarism/War are issues you absolutely have to pass. No exceptions. On previous occasions, I did say Weld was not a peckerwood populist, which unfortunately these days I suppose is saying something. But that’s not enough.

  53. Tony From Long Island

    AD: Some members of the Libertarian Party WANT to remain at .5% of the vote. That way they can continue to feel like they are the outsiders and everyone else is wrong. They are PURE. The other 99.5% are just statists. There is no grey . . . only black or white. It gets old after a while.

  54. Anthony Dlugos

    T from LI,

    For years, I was completely convinced that the LP’s lack of success was a result of the fact that the people of this country were just not ready for libertarianism.

    What had me reverse my position and understand the reality that the fault lies 100% with us was how utterly different the party operated as compared to any business I have ever been a part of. And being that I have always been in customer facing positions in my professional life, my experiences appear to me to be relevant.

    We have competitors that are bleeding customers in multitudinous waves. Those competitors are so ossified that they might as well be buggy manufacturers at the dawn of the automobile age. We have a product that the data (various polls demonstrating how many people are/have libertarian beliefs) implies should have landed us millions of new customers. And we lose nearly every single one of them.

    The irony is that its a party that claims to defend the free market. Any company in any industry that ignored the wishes of its target audience the way we do, and instead believe its what the “employees” of the company want that count would soon find itself in liquidation proceedings.

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