September 2017 Open Thread

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Our monthly open thread. Post news tips about alt parties and independent candidates, discuss any story that should be posted here but has not yet been posted, or even delve into completely off-topic stuff…just avoid quarantined thread subject matter and things that could get us and/or you into legal trouble such as threats, libel, and copyright infringement.

News tips can also be sent to the IPR writers who have chosen to make their contact info available at http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/about/.

Our video this month, an IPR Open Thread tradition:

74 thoughts on “September 2017 Open Thread

  1. Andy

    Amtifa are communist agitators funded by George Soros and the Ford Foundation. This is all part of a destabilization agenda.

    I don’t think anyone here is saying that actual Nazis are good guys. They are not.

    This is an orchestrated clash to suck people into the.”left vs right” paradigm.

    Nazis vs communists are warring gangs of thugs, just like Democrats vs Republicans.

    If you are for liberty, the enemy of your enemy is not your friend.

  2. Daemon Sims

    OZYMANDIAS – Percy Shelley

    I met a traveller from an antique land
    Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
    Stand in the desert… near them, on the sand,
    Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
    And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
    Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
    Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
    The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:

    And on the pedestal these words appear:
    ‘My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
    Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!’
    Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
    Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
    The lone and level sands stretch far away.

  3. wolfefan

    It’s Slate, so take it for what it’s worth, but it looks like hard working conservative Trump supporters are being deported. While not third-party related, the issue is relevant to a discussion that occurs here regularly about what kind of people immigrants are and what benefits/risks they bring. It’s also a reminder that the Trump presidency is not likely to end well for most of the people who supported him. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/09/michigan_s_iraqi_chaldean_community_is_fighting_to_protect_dozens_of_people.html

  4. DJ

    Yes, the Alt-Left exists and it’s terrifying

    The Alt-Left Is Real

    There is an effort underfoot, in the media and in academia, to declare the Alt-Left a myth, to sweep it back under the rug, to reduce it, in effect, back to being a sickness not spoken of, a problem that has no name. I have had well-meaning friends tell me I should not use the term Alt-Left (or any of its synonyms: Regressive Left, CTRL-Left, SJWism) because they are ‘pejoratives’ used only by the right to attack the left.

    https://personalliberty.com/yes-alt-left-exists-terrifying/

  5. paulie Post author

    No, it isn’t. It’s a propaganda term. Alt-rightists started to call themselves alt right. No one calls themselves alt left. It does not exist.

  6. George Phillies

    The possibility that some of these idiots are less competent at causing violence–that did not appear to be the case at Berkeley–has nothing to do with their moral character or lack thereof.

  7. paulie Post author

    funded by George Soros and the Ford Foundation.

    More BS. Looked up a little bit of info on that and as expected the evidence is rather lacking.

  8. paulie Post author

    The possibility that some of these idiots are less competent at causing violence

    They’re not less competent at causing violence. They are just not nearly as murderous as the racist far right. The ideology of the racist far right requires mass murder. They believe that the way they will prevail is to set off a race war. The ideology of antifa does call for confronting fascists, and some antifa believe in confronting fascists physically, even non-defensively. But that does not call for murder or massive global war. Some (not all) of them are communists who believe in overthrowing capitalism, which may or may not involve a war – but at least at this stage they are not calling for killing their enemies, whereas the fascists are, on a regular basis (and not only talking about it).

  9. paulie Post author

    Also, the racists frequently have religious beliefs that they will go to heaven or Valhalla if they die for their cause, unlike antifa. And they have racist gangs to go join up with if and when they go to prison. Are there any significant antifa gangs in US prisons? Not that I know of.

  10. paulie Post author

    https://www.lp.org/walter-block-time-rally-behind-libertarian-party/

    No mention of his recent role in creating the botched partial birth abortion known as “Libertarians for Trump”…

    Economist Walter Block, long-time libertarian activist and author of the controversial book Defending the Undefendable, recently argued that the Republican Party has so completely failed as a potential vehicle to bring about libertarian-leaning policy that it’s time for everybody who has libertarian views to rally behind the Libertarian Party.

    Block wrote the following at “Live Free Blog,” a forum from the Jack News:

    With the Republican Party led by an individual who continually breaks his promises (most recently, to get out of Afghanistan), and a Democratic Party intent on implementing the public policies of Bernie Sanders (his foreign policy isn’t all bad, but his domestic agenda is pure socialism), now perhaps more than ever before it is important to promote an alternative to the two major parties. And what is this, you may ask? I’ll tell you: it is the Libertarian Party. It, too, is imperfect, as are all of mankind’s creations (ok, ok, Bach and Mozart are exceptions), but it is the last best hope for the human race.

    So let us all get behind the LP, and support it, not only with financial contributions, but in every other way we can think of. Run for office! Provide for those who do step forward in this manner. Leaflet. Go to right wing meetings such as those which support the Second Amendment, and to left wing groups, for example, NORML, and spread the word for liberty and the LP. Use the Nolan chart on them. Try it, you’ll like it!

    The Johnson Weld team hit an unprecedented 3%, and this is the time to build on that sterling accomplishment. But do not compromise on principle. Always keep in mind the non-aggression principle and private property rights based on homesteading and legitimate (voluntary) title transfer. These are the bedrocks of our beloved philosophy. Let us all become Rothbardians and Ron Paulians now.

  11. Chuck Moulton

    It’s a terrible idea for LP national to promote Block. He keeps flipping back and forth and holds several unlibertarian positions. This just gives him a bigger audience to potentially follow him the next time he wakes up on the wrong side of bed and bolts the LP.

  12. V for Vagina

    He’s probably shaping up to be the new Neal Boortz – always coming back to the LP when the election is over and bolting to the Republicans when the election comes close. Agreed with Chuck Moulton. LPHQ should not promote this flip flopper.

  13. dL

    It’s a terrible idea for LP national to promote Block. He keeps flipping back and forth and holds several unlibertarian positions. This just gives him a bigger audience to potentially follow him the next time he wakes up on the wrong side of bed and bolts the LP.

    Absolutely concur…inexcusable

  14. George Dance

    “There is an effort underfoot, in the media and in academia, to declare the Alt-Left a myth, to sweep it back under the rug, to reduce it, in effect, back to being a sickness not spoken of, a problem that has no name. I have had well-meaning friends tell me I should not use the term Alt-Left (or any of its synonyms: Regressive Left, CTRL-Left, SJWism) because they are ‘pejoratives’ used only by the right to attack the left.”

    https://personalliberty.com/yes-alt-left-exists-terrifying/

    The generic term that seems to be popping up is “antifa” – which I spell in lower case, to distinguish it from groups calling themselves “Antifa”.

    My own preferred generic term is “bolsheviks” – the left-wing originators of political violence as a tactic – but, alas, the term has no resonance, especially compared to “fascists”

  15. DJ

    paulie Post author
    September 8, 2017 at 23:55

    No, it isn’t. It’s a propaganda term. Alt-rightists started to call themselves alt right. No one calls themselves alt left. It does not exist
    …………….

    You just did exactly what the excerpt article states. Did you read the entire article? Or any of it? Or did you just look at the title and decide you knew? The article, BTW, was written by a self avowed leftist.
    Are you implying you’re more leftist and therefore have the right, or are entitled, to tell a leftist what they call themselves?

  16. paulie Post author

    It depends on what you call leftist. I’m left-libertarian, and I score 100% libertarian as well. I’m already familiar with the origin of the terms alt left and alt right, and people do not call themselves alt left. It’s a propaganda term which I never heard until Trump used it, although dL tells me it was used before that by Hillary supporters against Bernie supporters. But it was always a pejorative, not an authentic tendency of what people call themselves. Alt right was created Spencer and Gottfried to self-describe. I read lots of perspectives from all over the left and right, including the alt right itself, and never saw anyone self-describe as “alt-left.” If one oddball somewhere does, so what?

  17. paulie Post author

    The generic term that seems to be popping up is “antifa” – which I spell in lower case, to distinguish it from groups calling themselves “Antifa”.

    My own preferred generic term is “bolsheviks” – the left-wing originators of political violence as a tactic – but, alas, the term has no resonance, especially compared to “fascists”

    You seem to be talking about Black Bloc. Antifa does not necessarily imply violence. Bolsheviks do preach violence but only some of them are more than talk and the term is dated. Antifa is a wide variety of people, not all of whom approve of non-defensive violence.

  18. paulie Post author

    When ans what has Block flip flopped on?

    Turned LP, ran to support Trump and created the botched partial birth abortion called “libertarians for Trump”, now back to LP again. Your basic flip flopping flip flopper.

  19. Luke

    Nothing in Keri Smith’s article referenced above quotes a single person who describes themselves as Alt Left. It is a pejorative, and nothing else, even if it used by some on the left to describe others on the left. Alt rightists call themselves that, so that’s different.

    Nevertheless it is true, there is an intolerant segment of the left that is indeed illiberal. But “alt left” is still a propaganda term.

  20. DJ

    paulie Post author
    September 10, 2017 at 10:41

    It depends on what you call leftist. I’m left-libertarian, and I score 100% libertarian as well. I’m already familiar with the origin of the terms alt left and alt right, and people do not call themselves alt left. It’s a propaganda term which I never heard until Trump used it, although dL tells me it was used before that by Hillary supporters against Bernie supporters. But it was always a pejorative, not an authentic tendency of what people call themselves. Alt right was created Spencer and Gottfried to self-describe. I read lots of perspectives from all over the left and right, including the alt right itself, and never saw anyone self-describe as “alt-left.” If one oddball somewhere does, so what?
    …………..

    You’re doing exactly what the excerpt from the article stated, again.

    I know you’re “left leaning”. It’s obvious, and I don’t care about a test. I care about personal agenda and it’s very obvious that you defend leftist, which is every bit as bad as defending those on the right. That you can’t see the correlation speaks volumes to your “test” being wrong. All tests can be fooled.

    And, BTW, reading articles from different perspectives didn’t answer my question. Did you read ‘this’ article? Or, did you just read the title and assume you knew all there was to know about everything said?

    The author is a self avowed leftist and pretty well credentialed and laid out her case pretty well.
    You on the other hand would seem to be an odd ball….as in left libertarian. Or is that Left Libertarian?

    In my non-tested opinion, as in individual, not collective, a libertarian should defend liberty, regardless of what collective thought says. Odd ball is hardly collective, since that signifies a singular, right? Though I will admit you have a collective of thought here with others who just as obviously lean left. Left is left, regardless of the prefix. And no, I’m not defending, or on the side of the right, but, I do defend their right to speak or act as they desire until they harm another. And before you start with the “murder” BS, trying someone/anyone in the court of public opinion, is precisely what the left and right do. That’s the job of the courts to determine, before a jury of peers, not self-proclaimed (insert tag here) antagonist with an axe to grind.

  21. DJ

    paulie Post author
    September 10, 2017 at 10:45

    When ans what has Block flip flopped on?

    Turned LP, ran to support Trump and created the botched partial birth abortion called “libertarians for Trump”, now back to LP again. Your basic flip flopping flip flopper.
    ……………..

    If I’m not mistaken he qualified his support of Trump reasonably.
    Though I disagree with his action I don’t think I’d tune him out completely. His blogs on LRC are quite the epitome of libertarian, in my non-tested opinion of course. And granted I’m not near as learned as you guys, but sometimes I think y’all carry your learnedness a bit too far and think way too much of yourselves, collectively.

  22. paulie Post author

    Yes, I read the article. No one calls themselves alt-left. No one in the article calls themselves alt left. Not one person. Did you read it?

    If you think I am fooling some tests devise your own. What issue do you think I am not libertarian on? There is literally nothing I want government to be bigger on, or nearly as big as now. My ideal size of government is zero.

    Not sure what most of that ranting was about but if you think I am not libertarian on any issues point out what they are, or ask.

    And again, the author of your article may be a leftist but does not call herself “alt left.” She is calling other people alt left as a pejorative. So if you’re looking for examples of people calling themselves alt left keep looking and let me know when you find something. If you know something I am not libertarian on what issue would that be?

    Once again alt left is a fake news term, not something that anyone calls themselves. Alt right is something people do call themselves. So once again they are not equivalent. One is real, one is propaganda.

  23. paulie Post author

    If I’m not mistaken he qualified his support of Trump reasonably.

    Nope. There is nothing reasonable about anyone who claims to be a libertarian supporting that piece of shit in any way, shape or form. I’m Libertarians Against Trump all the way then and now. Trump is basically too toxic to be the shit that you scrape off your shoe when you step in it. And Block stepped in it big time with his “Libertarians for Trump.” That’s some stench that just does not get off someone no matter what.

  24. DJ

    paulie Post author
    September 10, 2017 at 11:50

    Yes, I read the article. No one calls themselves alt-left. No one in the article calls themselves alt left. Not one person. Did you read it?
    ………

    Yes I did, and I’d ask you to show us where I said she called herself alt left. Acknowledging (or admitting which apparently you won’t do under any circumstance) a word, or term, or phrase is pretty self explanatory, which is what she did pretty well, which is what I said.
    ……….

    If you think I am fooling some tests devise your own. What issue do you think I am not libertarian on? There is literally nothing I want government to be bigger on, or nearly as big as now. My ideal size of government is zero.
    ……….

    Like I said: Tests are easily fooled. Now I’ll add, no matter who designs it.

    I don’t “think” you’re not Libertarian, I just don’t believe you’re libertarian. On another thread here you want somebody’s name spoken only in contempt. That is not libertarian. That is authoritarian and demanding they be shut up, or, as a pejorative… (see how that works?) So now (well not just that time) you don’t want people to speak freely…. unless it’s on your terms. Libertarian perhaps, but not libertarian for sure. You (and some of the others here) are great examples of why I choose to not associate with Libertarian party, but call myself libertarian. You’re too into yourselves and your self righteousness just like Demopublicans and Republicrats.
    ………….

    Not sure what most of that ranting was about but if you think I am not libertarian on any issues point out what they are, or ask.
    …………..

    Of course you don’t know, conveniently. I don’t need to ask and I have pointed out. You’re a leftist and authoritarian.
    ………….

    And again, the author of your article may be a leftist but does not call herself “alt left.” She is calling other people alt left as a pejorative.
    ……………..

    Like I said; she’s an self avowed leftist and pretty well credentialed. You on the other hand are just gaining those leftist credentials (to/for me since I haven’t been aware of you til recently). She acknowledged/admitted they exist. You refuse.
    …………….

    So if you’re looking for examples of people calling themselves alt left keep looking and let me know when you find something. If you know something I am not libertarian on what issue would that be?
    …………….

    I’m not looking. I just ran across the article. You speak for yourself, and you don’t approve of free speech unless you agree with it. Just like those you accuse of doing the same thing.
    …………..

    Once again alt left is a fake news term, not something that anyone calls themselves. Alt right is something people do call themselves. So once again they are not equivalent. One is real, one is propaganda.
    …………..

    What did Hillary call Bernie? It’s now out there so lets stop pussy footing around and call it what it is, and don’t think for a second that the media doesn’t use “alt right” as a pejorative. Hell, they use Republican and conservative in the same tone. That they’re biased and refuse to call themselves something (stupid for instance) doesn’t mean they aren’t.

  25. paulie Post author

    LOL.

    First up, you should learn to format your posts so it is clear who said what. You can use quote marks, italics, blockquote, or e.g.

    DJ:

    PF:

    Or whatever.

    You are way off base. I don’t acknowledge a term which is not used by the people it is supposed to describe in a false attempt to equate them with some other people. It’s as simple as that.

    “I just don’t believe you’re libertarian”

    Yet you have zero evidence of this whereas I have all kinds of evidence that I am.

    “On another thread here you want somebody’s name spoken only in contempt. That is not libertarian.”

    Sure it is. He has free speech and I have mine. I’m not advocating using force to shut him up. I am using my own freedom of speech to express disapproval. There would be no free speech without that right to express disapproval and dissociation.

    “you don’t want people to speak freely…. unless it’s on your terms”

    People can speak freely on the same terms as I can. They can express their disapproval of me. They can’t initiate force. Hoppe can speak his nonsense freely, and I can freely say that no one should refer to his ugly ideas positively. That doesn’t mean I will use force to shut them, or him, up if they do, but if they are a candidate running for office it means I am less likely to support them if they do. How does that translate to using force to shut people up in your befuddled mind?

    “You’re a leftist and authoritarian.”

    What issues am I authoritarian on? You still have nothing whatsoever.

    “I just ran across the article.”

    Which still does not have one single person who calls themselves alt left. Thanks for helping to prove my point.

    “and you don’t approve of free speech unless you agree with it.”

    I don’t use force to shut it down, nor do I advocate it. I don’t have to approve of what they say, or what you say. You have a very flawed understanding of free speech. Free speech does not and never has meant I lose my right to express disapproval of your speech. That would be taking away my free speech.

    So here it is. You called me authoritarian, yet failed to back it up in any way whatsoever. You can’t even format your posts intelligibly. At this point you are at best a waste of time.

  26. DJ

    paulie Post author
    September 10, 2017 at 11:54

    If I’m not mistaken he qualified his support of Trump reasonably.

    Nope. There is nothing reasonable about anyone who claims to be a libertarian supporting that piece of shit in any way, shape or form. <<<

    I’m Libertarians Against Trump all the way then and now. Trump is basically too toxic to be the shit that you scrape off your shoe when you step in it. <<<

    And Block stepped in it big time with his “Libertarians for Trump.” That’s some stench that just does not get off someone no matter what. <<<
    ……………..

    Attempting to sway others opinions with pejoratives is Libertarian?

    Sounds to me like you and those against Block have some sort of jealousy thing going on. You know, that whole ridiculing those you’re jealous of thing.

    SMFH at the lack of self awareness. I can guarantee I’ll never support the “party” (any of them) because of the self righteousness used by the so called hard core “followers”. <<<<

    Please note the use of the plural, as in “collective”<<<, which is diametrically opposite the individual.

    And the blog I read on LRC, by Block, he explained his support, which was reasonable, though I do disagree with it. That being the case I would not have supported Hillary or Bernie or anyone else for that matter. I have yet to hear any politician (except Ron Paul) address the 3 issues that adversely affect (and effect) everyone. Those 3 are monetary policy, foreign policy and domestic policy. They all 3 have to be addressed (preferably at the same time) in order to help right the the ship, though I don’t think it’s possible w/o catastrophic results. Sadly I’m too old to believe I’ll be around to witness they “trying” or the results, but, I guarONtee, “if you wanna dance you gotta pay the fiddler”, and the first installment is way past due, and, being a leftist <<< only promotes it since in the scheme of things both sides of the aisle are Neocon in their 3 policy beliefs using only different rhetoric to get to the same place = same destination, different rate of descent.

  27. paulie Post author

    Sounds to me like you and those against Block have some sort of jealousy thing going on.

    No, just expressing my honest opinion of him and the big pile of nuclear waste doo doo he stepped in with “Libertarians for Trump.”

    Sorry, I can’t read most of your raving, it sounds demented. It’s just not worth the time to parse and try to figure out if you were just putting out a random word salad or if there is some point in there somewhere. I think I may just start skipping over your posts as you can’t format them properly and seem to have some confused mish-mosh in your head that is just a total waste of time to try to make any sense of.

  28. DJ

    So here it is. You called me authoritarian, yet failed to back it up in any way whatsoever. You can’t even format your posts intelligibly. At this point you are at best a waste of time.
    ………….

    LOL…. a waste of time? Not mine for sure. I’ll format the way I best know how and your authoritative reaction speaks for itself, which will not change my mind. If it changes anyone else’s that will prove them weak minded, a follower, which I’m not.

    I said, it was on another thread and everyone who reads these posts can remember your authoritative comment. If not, that’s their problem not mine. I know what I saw. (should be spoken with contempt) It comes across as authoritative, to sway opinion….that is not (in my non-tested libertarian opinion) libertarian, though it may be a Libertarian position, which just illustrates why I refuse (capital letter) party affiliation(s). IF indeed your beliefs are so great they should not need to be backed with “pejorative” opinion about another’s beliefs to be effective.

  29. paulie Post author

    LOL…. a waste of time? Not mine for sure.

    No, mine. That’s as far as I read in your comments. You have ceased to be worth the time. Honestly, you never were.

    If anyone else wants to keep reading DJ’s comments…good luck with that.

  30. Chuck Moulton

    In addition to flip-flopping to Republican to support Trump, Block holds un-libertarian positions on monetary economics: he believes government should prohibit people from depositing money at banks lent out at interest, earning interest for depositers. He basically wants to enforce 100% reserves at gunpoint. I favor free banking, which is the free market position on the issue. But the flipflopping for Trump is the much larger issue.

  31. dL

    In addition to flip-flopping to Republican to support Trump, Block holds un-libertarian positions on monetary economics: he believes government should prohibit people from depositing money at banks lent out at interest, earning interest for depositers. He basically wants to enforce 100% reserves at gunpoint. I favor free banking, which is the free market position on the issue. But the flipflopping for Trump is the much larger issue.

    Block the flip-flopper is one thing… the brain dead stupidity of the LNC to give the guy a platform is quite another.

  32. dL

    My own preferred generic term is “bolsheviks” – the left-wing originators of political violence as a tactic – but, alas, the term has no resonance, especially compared to “fascists”

    So, George, are you claiming the use of political violence as tactic was not invented until the 20th century? The commies invented political terror? LOL.

    Antifa vs fascism aside, it has become abundantly clear to me that the American libertarian movement suffers from a “leftist derangement syndrome.” Symptoms of the ailment include, among other things, an almost line by line parroting of Rush Limbaugh when it comes to criticism of the left.

  33. paulie Post author

    Anyone want to sign up to post articles? I am hitting another wall and I think pretty much everyone who is signed up to post right now has sort of gotten worn out on it, is too busy, or both. Would be nice to keep this place going but I am not interested in doing it mostly by myself.

  34. NewFederalist

    I don’t blame you, paulie. You have shouldered the load for a very long time. I lack the skills to post articles. If nobody steps up then perhaps this place will just close up shop. It happens.

  35. paulie Post author

    I could sign someone up, but I’m not so eager to do that for someone I don’t know of who is posting from an anonymizer due to some of the games that have been played here over the years. If you are someone I know you can write me offline and I’ll keep your real identity secret.

  36. paulie Post author

    You have shouldered the load for a very long time

    No, there were others to take up the slack at other times. It seems that is not as much the case anymore.

    I lack the skills to post articles.

    It’s not that hard. If anyone wants to give it a try I’ll help you learn how.

    If nobody steps up then perhaps this place will just close up shop.

    It may just slow down a lot. But yeah, nothing lasts forever and we’ve had a good run. If we make it til May 20 that will be a full decade.

  37. dL

    dL Do you know Libertarians who listen to or watch or whatever it is these days Rush Limbaugh?

    (1) it is not a new talking point
    (2) it it is not limited to Limbaugh. It is repeated ad nauseam throughout the wingnutSphere
    (3) yes, plenty of libertarians apparently do get their contra left talking points from the wingnuts

    Perhaps “Jacobins” was the needed word.

    yes, a good late 18th century example of the use of political terror. But the point is that I can find good examples of political terror from every century in recorded human history. Or, put differently, neither “the left” nor “the right” invented politics. And neither invented political terror.

  38. Krzysztof Lesiak

    Since this is OPEN THREAD, let’s remember Prince:

    Prince Exposes Illuminati Depopulation Plans!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwjefpNkuas

    Jehovahs witnesses tell the truth that’s why they are so hated worldwide. The bible says those who tell the truth will be hated and prosecuted. Jehovahs witnesses are not a cult they are regular people like you and me. They don’t ask for money or celebrate holidays because it’s pagan and if you studied the bible you would know that’s true. Jehovah is the creator. Jesus is the king.? – Raffiki Tacos 1 year ago

  39. Krzysztof Lesiak

    Five songs for September 18th – 19th, 2017 it’s 11:59 PM on my end:

    Scorpions – Send Me An Angel

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UUYjd2rjsE

    Lynyrd Skynard – Simple Man

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMmTkKz60W8

    Watsky – Sloppy Seconds

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCEsveSK5to

    Spose – “Nobody (feat. Watsky)” (Official Music Video)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHqiATVuxnA

    Spose – Knocking on Wood (Official Music Video)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuqR3oZjZa8

  40. dL

    “Protesters shut down Pelosi news conference on DACA: ‘All of us or none of us’”

    http://m.sfgate.com/news/article/Protesters-shut-down-Pelosi-news-conference-on-12206788.php

    Chanting pro-immigrant slogans — “All of us or none of us,” “Democrats deport” and “We are not a bargaining chip” — more than 60 young people overwhelmed a news conference that House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi had organized Monday on her home turf in San Francisco to urge passage of the Dream Act to protect immigrants who were brought to the country as children.

    After nearly an hour of boisterous chanting by protesters who described themselves as “undocumented youth,” Pelosi and fellow House Democrats Barbara Lee of Oakland and Jared Huffman of San Rafael packed up and left as the carefully orchestrated event fell into disarray.

    LP, take note!

  41. Daemon Sims

    TRUMPANDIAS

    I met a traveller from the Garden Land
    Who said: Two vast pillars of stone
    Stand on the beach… near them, on the sand,
    Half sunk, a shattered marquee lies, whose glow,
    And elegant caligraphy, and sneer of cold command,
    Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
    Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
    The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:

    And on the pedestal these words appear:
    ‘Trump Plaza: Hotel and Casino’
    Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!
    Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
    Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
    The lone and level sands stretch far away.

  42. George Phillies

    One might propose that we are at the front end of a rearrangement in which the United States will have in the lead a liberal party (Democrats) and a populist party (Republicans),with conservatives being shut out. On the way there, we may have that anomaly, a third party that uses the name and organization of one of the leading parties.

  43. Andy

    “Tony From long island
    September 25, 2017 at 07:44
    Hey Andy . . . . another false flag operation this weekend in Tennessee?”

    I don’t know. I have not had a chance to delve deeply into this incident.

    Contrary to what you and some others apparently think, I do not think that every time somebody gets shot or something similar happens that it is a false flag. I examine the evidence and go where it takes me.

  44. Tony From Long Island

    Andy: ” . . . Contrary to what you and some others apparently think, I do not think that every time somebody gets shot or something similar happens that it is a false flag. I examine the evidence and go where it takes me. . . . . ”

    Coulda fooled me! Apparently the “evidence” leads you in the same direction every time.

  45. dL

    Sanders is hard at work on this.

    So, when the republicans actually end up being the ones to deliver “medicare for all”, the GOP will be the liberal party?

  46. V for Vagina

    The Democrats are not especially liberal, even if by liberal you mean progressive. They are centrist managerial-corporatist, at least at the top. The Sanders wing is left-populist. The Republicans are increasingly autoritarian nationalist-populists. Their own centrist managerial-corporatist wing remains barely attached, thanks to fear of the Sanders wing of the Democrats and what it may do to the economy if given free rein.

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