William Saturn: ‘On Charlottesville’

court20house20monument

A statue honoring Confederate soldiers in Charlottesville, Virginia

William Saturn is a citizen journalist who frequently covers alternative parties and independent candidates and an IPR author/editor. Original article at Saturn’s Repository:

After the events in Charlottesville this past month, I had to clear my thoughts. Discourse had, once again, reached a level of absurdity. Media of all stripes used the act of one misguided person to vilify the entirety of a group. It used this act as cover to endorse silencing speakers of unpopular points of view. It portrayed violent agitators as saints while stripping away the humanity of those who opposed. The President faced heavy criticism, even from members of his own party, for not fully embracing the media’s moral absolutist narrative. Lynch mobs were out for blood. Many inflicted their fury on relics of the past. Personally, I had much to say, but I needed the inspiration to put it all together. I visited the resting place for some of those who had become so controversial in recent months; those whose legacy lay at the foundation of the ideological battle of Charlottesville.

Ironically, the Confederate Cemetery I visited is on a side of the city I have often heard referred to as “Nigger Town.” As I trod on those hallowed grounds, I felt a sense of peace, a sense of understanding and awareness. Before me were men who fought honorably for their country while it faced attack. These soldiers defended their homeland from an invading force that committed war crimes, burned cities, and killed innocent civilians, all in the name of Union. These men were virtuous. Their sacrifice is worth honoring. At the very least, their historic impact deserves to be remembered.

Many of the beautiful monuments across the South, including the one desecrated in Durham, are meant to recognize the sacrifice of Confederate soldiers, not just particular individuals. The vast majority of these soldiers did not own slaves. In fact, some of these soldiers were slaves themselves. Those who destroy these monuments and force cities to take them down, against the will of the people, are similar to those who sent armies south to enforce their own sense of morality. The privileged, mostly White individuals ravaging monuments for “social justice” are the successors of the same masters of war ravaged cities for “emancipation.”

Southerners do not go North and demand Northern cities take down statues of those who committed war crimes in the South. In no way would I ever advocate for that. The historical record should remain, art should be respected, and the will of the people should prevail. A recent PBS poll showed most Americans do not want to take down Confederate statues and monuments. It is they who shall have the final say.

Public statues and monuments are the collective speech of We the People. As long as I am alive, I will argue in favor of using this collective speech to honor the men whose graves I visited. The men who inspired me finally to write this article.

 

Previously at IPR:

David Colborne: ‘Charlottesville and Liberty’

American Solidarity Party Statement on the Terror in Charlottesville

Anarchast: What Happened To Chris Cantwell and How Government Causes Racism with Adam Kokesh

Gary Johnson: ‘In the Wake of Charlottesville, Let’s Look for Solutions and Not Blame’

Daily Beast: ‘The Insidious Libertarian-to-Alt-Right Pipeline’

Gene Berkman: ‘Blood & Soil BSers Look Back to Miserable Era’

WSWS: ‘Trump deepens appeal to fascist right’

Kn@ppster: ‘A Brief Note on Philosophical Debate versus Marketing Practice’

Reform Party Statement on UVA Situation

Former Libertarian, now fascist, Christopher Cantwell gathers national attention

C. J. Atkins at CPUSA’s People’s World: ‘Nazis fulfilling the promises of Donald Trump’

West Virginia PSL: Honor anti-racist fighters, preserve legacy of John Brown

Workers World Party: ‘Cops and Klan, Hand in Hand’: Lessons of Charlottesville

Orlando Sentinel: ‘Goat-blood drinking Orlando man had key billing for Charlottesville rally’

Thomas L. Knapp: @Yesyoureracist crowdsources social preferencing

Stand Up Republic Statement Regarding the Violent White Supremacist Protests in Charlottesville, Virginia

LP Release: “Libertarians condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant”

Liberty Against Fascism: ‘Restating the Obvious: An Open Letter from the Libertarian Movement’

Nicholas Sarwark: ‘Nationalism and racism is a sickness that flows from weakness and lack of anything other than the privilege of birth to be proud of’

LSLA 2017: ‘Physically Removed, So to Speak: Making the LP Inhospitable to the Alt-Right and Other Nazis’

Gary Johnson condemns racist violence in Charlottesville

Green Party urges prosecution of white supremacist groups for domestic terrorism in the wake of racist violence in Charlottesville

Ohio Green Party responds to Charlottesville

American Freedom Party: ‘Anti-Defamation League’s Murder Hit List’

Socialist Party USA Statement on Charlottesville

PSL Statement: ‘Solidarity with the anti-racist, anti-fascist heroes in Charlottesville’

98 thoughts on “William Saturn: ‘On Charlottesville’

  1. Anthony Dlugos

    “Southerners do not go North and demand Northern cities take down statues of those who committed war crimes in the South.”

    The war has been over for 130 years, dude. We won. The statues come down or we bust your ass again.

    -Sincerely,
    A Yankee.

  2. DJ

    The collective may, but, try coming to take my flag personally, you’ll get a southern introduction to an ass bustin you won’t forget. Not a threat. A promise.

    Sincerely,
    A Southerner.
    ………..

  3. Anthony Dlugos

    DJ,

    I was joking, as you may be aware.

    But I do have to wonder…all of a sudden, we libertarians are issuing paeans to flags and talking identity politics? What did I miss?

  4. paulie

    Media of all stripes used the act of one misguided person to vilify the entirety of a group.

    Nonsense. The violence by the fascist contingent in Charlottesville was in no way limited to one person. 35 people ended up in the hospital, every single one of them from the anti-fascist side. Almost half were not from the vehicular assault.

    It portrayed violent agitators as saints while stripping away the humanity of those who opposed.

    Well, in addition to who all ended up in the hospital – how many people there carried nazi flags and symbols, KKK hoods, did Hitler salutes, chanted nazi slogans? How many marched right beside them as they did all those things, and committed all those assaults that sent all those people (and none on their own side) to the hospital?

  5. paulie

    The President faced heavy criticism, even from members of his own party, for not fully embracing the media’s moral absolutist narrative.

    As well he should have.

    Lynch mobs were out for blood.

    But only one lynch mob actually got blood. Guess which one?

    Before me were men who fought honorably for their country while it faced attack.

    They were misled into fighting for a rebellion to preserve slavery. That’s not to take away their honor; nazi soldiers fought just as honorably. When are we going to put up statues to them? Well, Reagan did lay a wreath to the SS so maybe there’s a lot more where that came from.

    These soldiers defended their homeland from an invading force that committed war crimes, burned cities, and killed innocent civilians,

    They did all of those things as well.

    The vast majority of these soldiers did not own slaves.

    Yes, the slave-owning elite propagandized them that freed blacks would take their jobs, land and women.

    In fact, some of these soldiers were slaves themselves.

    In those cases, they had no choice in the matter. And the confederates screwed themselves by not letting black soldiers fight for their side until very late in the war because they were deathly afraid of blacks with guns.

    Those who destroy these monuments and force cities to take them down

    Those are two different things. Moving them to museums and private property is not the same thing as destroying them. I approve of one but not the other.

  6. DJ

    ……..
    paulie
    September 1, 2017 at 10:35

    try coming to take my flag personally,

    Which one?
    ……….

    It doesn’t matter. The key is “my”, and “personally” vs “collectively”.

    Went over your head I suppose.

  7. Melinda Pillsbury-Foster

    “Anthony Dlugos”
    September 1, 2017 at 10:10
    “Southerners do not go North and demand Northern cities take down statues of those who committed war crimes in the South.”

    The war has been over for 130 years, dude. We won. The statues come down or we bust your ass again.

    -Sincerely,
    A Yankee.

    Provide a copy of your lineage certified by the DAR and or the New England Genealogical Society. One line is not enough. You don’t sound like any descendant I know. Yankees opposing slavery put their lives and property on the line by starting stops on the Underground RR and did not serve in the War Between the States because it was a states rights issue. My family lines include two who served in the Union Army from Pennsylvania (Ball) and Missouri (McReynolds).

  8. paulie

    Southerners do not go North and demand Northern cities take down statues of those who committed war crimes in the South.

    Not necessarily a bad idea. Actually, a review of public monuments in NYC commissioned by Mayor DeBlasio is reportedly considering removing the public monument of Grant’s tomb. A better idea still would be to remove all monuments from public property and put them on private property or in museums. But, short of that, it’s worth noting that one side won the war and one did not. How many places in the world put up monuments to rebellions against their government which failed?

  9. Andy

    Should Vietnam War memorials be torn down? How about Korean War memorials?

    If we were in Italy, would you advocate tearing down reminders of the Roman Empire (say a statue of Julius Ceaser)?

    If we were in Mexico, would you favor tearing down reminders of the Aztecs (they oppressed other tribes, and they engaged in human sacrifices)?

  10. Anthony Dlugos

    “Provide a copy of your lineage certified by the DAR and or the New England Genealogical Society.”

    No, I won’t because mostly I think this whole confederate flag/statues issue is a joke, driven by a bunch of angry white men who can’t get laid. I treat it as the joke that it is, as seen by my post you referred to.

    Although I do enjoy paulie’s more pointed and incisive critique.

  11. paulie

    It doesn’t matter.

    Thanks for clearing that up. I guess that means you own both of them?

    In any case you are correct, I would never try to remove either flag that you personally own off your own property. I was just trying to see which one you are pledging allegiance to but either that went over your head or you already answered it.

  12. Anastasia Beaverhausen

    Sorry, just gotta laugh at the term “citizen journalist”. Would you entrust your teeth to a “citizen dentist”? Of course not. It’s just another sign of title inflation in society at large (when almost anyone in the company can be an assistant executive deputy vice president) that any old blogger with internet access in his parents’ basement is suddenly a “citizen journalist”. Sheesh.

  13. paulie

    Should Vietnam War memorials be torn down? How about Korean War memorials?

    We have memorials to Ho Chi Minh and the Kims here in the US? I did not know that.

    If you mean in Korea and Vietnam, yes, I expect that the monuments to those communist tyrants will come down when those bloody regimes do, just as they have in other former communist nations.

  14. paulie

    If we were in Italy, would you advocate tearing down reminders of the Roman Empire (say a statue of Julius Ceaser)?

    I think if we were in Italy the equivalent would be statues to the Huns and the Goths who attacked Rome. Would those come down? Yeah, I think so.

    I’d probably find it a bit jarring to find a statue of Mussolini in a public square in Rome today. Wouldn’t you?

  15. Anthony Dlugos

    “did not serve in the War Between the States because it was a states rights issue. ”

    haha, I’m slipping. I missed you sliding that little bit of white nationalist dog whistle in there.

  16. paulie

    The historical record should remain, art should be respected

    I fully agree. On private property and in museums.

    and the will of the people should prevail. A recent PBS poll showed most Americans do not want to take down Confederate statues and monuments. It is they who shall have the final say.

    Before you start crowing too much about that PBS poll I would recommend looking at the other questions and answers.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/new-poll-majority-americans-unhappy-trumps-response-charlottesville/

    Those look a lot better from my perspective.

    I’m not sure we really want to go down the route of direct democracy in the placement of monuments, or we may end up with lots of monuments to Elvis, pink flamingoes, and dogs playing poker commissioned and placed at public expense. But regardless of whether you think that is a good idea or not, do I take it to mean that William Saturn and anyone agreeing with him here is in favor of taking down confederate monuments just as soon as public opinion turns on that issue?

  17. Tony from Long Island

    Saturn:

    Before me were men who fought honorably for their country while it faced attack. These soldiers defended their homeland from an invading force that committed war crimes,

    The CSA fired the first shot of the war. Enough said.

    I pretty much disagree with every single word of the sentences I quoted above.

  18. paulie

    Public statues and monuments are the collective speech of We the People.

    Why do we need collective speech on this? What’s wrong with making that speech individual (or fully-voluntary cooperative)?

  19. Tony from Long Island

    DJ:

    The collective may, but, try coming to take my flag personally, you’ll get a southern introduction to an ass bustin you won’t forget. Not a threat. A promise.

    Sincerely,
    A Southerner.

    What is “a southerner?” Last I knew, they were citizens of the United States.

  20. Anthony Dlugos

    “We may end up with lots of monuments to Elvis, pink flamingoes, and dogs playing poker.”

    We do have that. Its called Las Vegas, and its more glorious than any dopey statue to a dead white guy in some hick southern town.

    Damn! I am one fired up Yankee today! I think I’ll buy that condo in South Florida I’ve been saving up for my retirement. I heard the Southerners love Snowbird!.

  21. paulie

    Finally, Saturn’s piece ignores that Charlottesville was not all about the confederate monuments. That wouldn’t explain all the sieg heiling, swastikas, chants about Jews, etc. Let’s be real here.

  22. DJ

    Anthony Dlugos
    September 1, 2017 at 10:46

    DJ,

    I was joking, as you may be aware.
    …………

    I wasn’t.
    Many from the north east assume a saint like attitude and those same many are some of the most rude, crude and socially unacceptable people I’ve ever had the displeasure to know. So when one writes a provocation and signs it provocatively the provocation is accepted, and returned. Earnestly.
    ………….

    But I do have to wonder…all of a sudden, we libertarians are issuing paeans to flags and talking identity politics? What did I miss?
    ……….

    Ask paulie, he’s the one with the axe to grind…. though I am from Texas (5th generation born and raised) the only identity I identify with is ‘individual’. I am “libertarian”, no plural and no party association.
    Identifying with the individual means the rights of the individual and all it encompasses, whether I like/approve or not. When another individuals rights are encroached I will defend the one(s) encroached on no matter what/whose side they’re on. And in Charlottesville it’s pretty obvious there was an intent (maybe on both sides), that ‘outsiders’ were brought in and not “policed” (so they could encroach) to try to prevent a clash, and I even posted a link that showed (in aerial photos) the path of the “rally” people (when told to leave the park) were directed into the “protesters” path.

    I get real tired of the defending of the “protesters” because it’s quite obvious they are just like the idiots at Berkley….. attention whores and every bit as bad and guilty as those on the right (probably bought and paid for) to disrupt and stir shit up and then whine when the price paid exceeds their expectations….. accidentally (unintended consequences) or intentionally.

  23. Tony from Long Island

    Paulie

    Actually, a review of public monuments in NYC commissioned by Mayor DeBlasio is reportedly considering removing the public monument of Grant’s tomb

    What possible basis would there be to remove the tomb of a United States president and the General who defeated a rebellion?

  24. paulie

    Ask paulie, he’s the one with the axe to grind…

    What axe would that be? I’m with Lysander Spooner on the war; if the North had seceded first we’d have had it made.

    every bit as bad and guilty as those on the right

    So why were all the hospitalizations on one side? No, they were not nearly as bad or guilty.

  25. paulie

    whine when the price paid exceeds their expectations

    You mean death and mass injury as the price of free public expression? And here I thought you were on the “defending free speech” side.

  26. Tony from Long Island

    Andy:

    Should Vietnam War memorials be torn down? How about Korean War memorials?

    This ridiculously specious comparison is beneath even your deluded conspiracy theorist mind.

    Let me know where the Monument to Ho Chi Mihn is and I will go protest it.

    If you are referring to those who fought and died for the United States then, no. They should be removed. Regardless of whether those missions were just (and we both would likely agree that they were not – at least in the case of Vietnam), they were American Citizens, not traitorous members of a rebellion that was quashed.

  27. paulie

    What possible basis would there be to remove the tomb of a United States president and the General who defeated a rebellion?

    I actually only read the headline. It was at reason.com I believe.

  28. Anthony Dlugos

    paulie,

    “I’m with Lysander Spooner on the war; if the North had seceded first we’d have had it made.”

    yes, that was one of the takeaways from “Emancipating Slaves, Enslaving Free Men.” Had the North seceded first, the deadweight loss of trying to ensure their slaves didn’t sneak off to the North would have bankrupted the South. Or something like that.

  29. Jill Pyeatt

    Sorry, just gotta laugh at the term “citizen journalist”. Would you entrust your teeth to a “citizen dentist”? Of course not. It’s just another sign of title inflation in society at large (when almost anyone in the company can be an assistant executive deputy vice president) that any old blogger with internet access in his parents’ basement is suddenly a “citizen journalist”. Sheesh.

    Citizen journalists are the only thing from keeping most of the people in this country from believing the propaganda we’re fed daily. Some of them are excellent researchers. Some are not, of course, but someone needs to cover the news. I appreciate everyone stepping up to do what our paid journalists won’t.

  30. paulie

    I think there’s a place for both professional and citizen journalists. It’s not like dentistry with the extensive study required to do the job right. Speaking as a citizen journalist myself I think I have picked up many of the basics of journalism without attending school for it. However, there are things that can be done with a professional news budget which can’t be done on a voluntary part time basis, so we need both. I agree with Jill that those who in past decades would not have been recognized as “journalists” have done a lot to uncover stories and even drive professional news coverage where it would not have otherwise went, as well as to cover stories that would not be covered at all otherwise.

  31. Anthony Dlugos

    I want to apologize for my cracks on the South & Southerners to-day. Frankly speaking, I am a mad Yankee because I got a letter from the IRS saying I owe a few thousand more from 2015 than I originally thought. Remember me everyone, when I get thrown into the tombs.

    TAXATION IS THEFT!!!

  32. Tony From Long Island

    Jill, I have a dentist appointment tomorrow. However, if you can do it cheaper, I’m all ears 🙂

  33. paulie

    Jill, I have a dentist appointment tomorrow. However, if you can do it cheaper, I’m all ears

    One of my extended family relations is known as “the dentist” among his friends. For a fair price, he will work on your teeth. They will look very sharp when he is done. For a slightly higher price he will throw in some work on your ears as well.

  34. Andy

    Jill Pyeatt said: “Citizen journalists are the only thing from keeping most of the people in this country from believing the propaganda we’re fed daily. Some of them are excellent researchers. Some are not, of course, but someone needs to cover the news. I appreciate everyone stepping up to do what our paid journalists won’t.”

    I agree. We should all be thankful that the internet has given the alternative media a chance to flourish like never before. This is why some people in power want to crack down on free speech on the internet.

  35. wolfefan

    The problem with this whole Northerners demanding the South take down monuments stuff is that it is often the taxpayers of the cities themselves, through their elected representatives, that want the monuments down. That was the case in Charlottesville. Whether I agree or not, the folks that actually pay for the monuments are the ones who should decide, through their elected representatives given our current system of government, whether they stay or go. It’s not for outsiders like Saturn or me to tell them how to use their resources.

    Also with genuine respect most of the folks who write here are not citizen journalists. They rarely actually cover or report on anything. While there is some small amount of original reporting, most of what happens here is aggregating or re-posting articles from other folks. There is certainly value in that and I am thankful for everyone’s efforts, but that’s not citizen journalism. If I re-post this article on my FB page I am not a journalist.

  36. paulie

    The problem with this whole Northerners demanding the South take down monuments stuff is that it is often the taxpayers of the cities themselves, through their elected representatives, that want the monuments down. That was the case in Charlottesville. Whether I agree or not, the folks that actually pay for the monuments are the ones who should decide, through their elected representatives given our current system of government, whether they stay or go. It’s not for outsiders like Saturn or me to tell them how to use their resources.

    Good point.

    Also with genuine respect most of the folks who write here are not citizen journalists. They rarely actually cover or report on anything.

    But we do in fact do some original reporting, so I will go ahead and claim the citizen journalist label. Over the course of several years we’ve done quite a bit of it even if you haven’t noticed it or forgot in between all the reposts. It’s true that most of our reporting is not original, but then reporting the news usually does involve a lot of repackaging news others have reported first, even among those with professional news budgets. I don’t see much value in rewording things. I just repost them if that’s all I’m going to do. Additionally, some of our original reporting and analysis is in the comment sections, not in the articles themselves. Liveblogging among other things.

  37. wolfefan

    Hi Paulie – You’re absolutely right and I mean no disrespect at all to anyone who posts here. I obviously find value in IPR because I visit it multiple times daily, and there certainly is some original reporting. “Citizen journalist” is one of those terms that has no precise definition and will mean different things to different people.

  38. Andy

    Wolfefan, how do you know that the city of Charlottesville has not received state and/or federal tax funding, as many cities do?

    Also, how many people clamoring to have the Robert E. Lee statue taken down work for the government, or are recipients of government welfare? How many of them are Marxist university professors or students living off of student loans and/or government grants? How many of them are even really from Charlottesville, or from Virginia (at least some of them are recent transplants, and/or people living their temporarily)?

    How many of them even have a good knowledge of history? Knowing how ignorant a lot of people are, I would wager that a lot of them have little idea about which they are getting hyped up.

    I would be willing to bet that you’d get a higher percentage of people who want to keep the statues, or who don’t care either way, if you only surveyed people who do not live off of the taxpayers.

  39. paulie

    I would be willing to bet that you’d get a higher percentage of people who want to keep the statues, or who don’t care either way, if you only surveyed people who do not live off of the taxpayers.

    I wouldn’t. Lots of altreichers, fascists and Trump fans are either on welfare or work for the government. Shocking but true. So how about, if we must have a vote on it at least let it be a local vote instead of a bunch of unsupported guessing about which side has more people on welfare and more people who work for the government?

    Of course better yet would be to just move all statues to private property or museums and end this silly debate.

    We could also stop ignoring the fact that the events in Charlottesville were about a lot more than the monuments to slaveowners’ rebellion. Anti-semitic slogans, swastikas, Hitler salutes…come on now.

  40. Andy

    Tony, this country was formed by the 13 British colonies seceding from England. The Founding Fathers of this country were “gun nuts” and “tax cheats” who took up arms against their own government and formed their own country. The English government considered them to be traitors. Many of them also owned slaves.

    If the states, of which the original 13 withdrew from England, could voluntarily enter the Union, there was nothing that said that they could not voluntarily leave the Union. Jefferson Davis was never put on trial for treason after the war.

    There is a reason why Karl Marx and Adolf Hitler admired Abraham Lincoln.

  41. DJ

    FBI, Homeland Security warn of more ‘antifa’ attacks

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235

    An excerpt

    “It was in that period [as the Trump campaign emerged] that we really became aware of them,” said one senior law enforcement official tracking domestic extremists in a state that has become a front line in clashes between the groups. “These antifa guys were showing up with weapons, shields and bike helmets and just beating the shit out of people. … They’re using Molotov cocktails, they’re starting fires, they’re throwing bombs and smashing windows.”

    Almost immediately, the right-wing targets of the antifa attacks began fighting back, bringing more and larger weapons and launching unprovoked attacks of their own, the documents and interviews show. And the extremists on both sides have been using the confrontations, especially since Charlottesville, to recruit unprecedented numbers of new members, raise money and threaten more confrontations, they say.

    Me: after being provoked ^^^^^^^^

  42. DJ

    Andy
    September 1, 2017 at 18:32

    Tony, this country was formed by the 13 British colonies seceding from England. The Founding Fathers of this country were “gun nuts” and “tax cheats” who took up arms against their own government and formed their own country. The English government considered them to be traitors. Many of them also owned slaves.

    If the states, of which the original 13 withdrew from England, could voluntarily enter the Union, there was nothing that said that they could not voluntarily leave the Union. Jefferson Davis was never put on trial for treason after the war.

    There is a reason why Karl Marx and Adolf Hitler admired Abraham Lincoln.
    …….

    Amen!

  43. Andy

    What does being a Trump fan have to do with anything? Lots of people who don’t like or don’t care about Trump support keeping historic statues/monuments/sites up.

    I have already clearly established that there are plenty of historic statues/monuments/sites that these leftists are not going after who have all kinds of ethical violations against them, and some have nothing to do with American history, and all of them are on taxpayer funded property.

    So there is clearly a double standard here.

    This is not about only allowing statues/memorials/sites with the highest moral standards, and it is not about these things being on public property, because this is an established practice, and these leftists are not trying to end it, and they in fact have plenty of statues/memorials/sites which serve their agenda that they like, and they are not calling to take any of them down.

    These attacks against the Founding Fathers and the Confederacy are about erasing reminders of those who founded and built this country so they can destroy what is left of the concept of having a government that is limited by a Constitution. These people are not libertarian anarcho-capitalists either, these are Marxists who be happy to replace the Constitution with the Communist Manifesto or the United Nations Charter.

  44. paulie

    this country was formed by the 13 British colonies seceding from England. The Founding Fathers of this country were “gun nuts” and “tax cheats” who took up arms against their own government and formed their own country. The English government considered them to be traitors. Many of them also owned slaves.

    Compare the reasons for separation listed in the Declaration of Independence with those listed in the declarations of secession of the CSA states. There’s a big difference.

    Additionally, the USA won and the CSA lost. Had the UK defeated the US rebellion it is unlikely there would be statues to the rebels on government property in these colonies now.

    Jefferson Davis was never put on trial for treason after the war.

    Which means what to you, that he did not commit any?

    There is a reason why Karl Marx and Adolf Hitler admired Abraham Lincoln.

    There’s a reason why the Unite the Right fash admire both Hitler and Jefferson Davis.

  45. paulie

    What does being a Trump fan have to do with anything? Lots of people who don’t like or don’t care about Trump support keeping historic statues/monuments/sites up.

    Regardless of what criteria you want to use, there are plenty of welfare recipients and government employees on the right wing side.

    I have already clearly established that there are plenty of historic statues/monuments/sites that these leftists are not going after who have all kinds of ethical violations against them, and some have nothing to do with American history, and all of them are on taxpayer funded property.

    How many of them are to people who waged war against the US?

    This is not about only allowing statues/memorials/sites with the highest moral standards

    No one is saying that it is except you.

    and it is not about these things being on public property

    Yes it is.

    they in fact have plenty of statues/memorials/sites which serve their agenda that they like, and they are not calling to take any of them down.

    As far as I know none of them are memorializing anyone who waged war against the US.

    These attacks against the Founding Fathers and the Confederacy are about erasing reminders of those who founded and built this country

    Nope. And it’s insulting to all the women, non-whites and propertyless white males alike who built this country to believe that the generals and politicians were who built this country. That’s not even a good joke. Especially the ones who only “distinguished” themselves by leading a slaveowners rebellion against this country.

  46. Don J. Grundmann, D.C.

    A) At both of the Berkeley free speech demonstrations which I attended the so-called ” antifascists ” were the attackers. Our pro free speech crowd had to fight back in defense as we were continually attacked. Hence I have extremely serious doubts that the anti-free speechers in Charlottesville were pristine Bambi’s especially when one rodent turned a spray can into a flame thrower against the free speechers. Mathematical formula – 1) liberals/ antifa lie; every time they open their mouth; + 1) liberals/antifa lied in Berkeley; = 2) they are lying about Charlottesville. B) There was no reason to attack the free speechers except to forward the agenda of The Plantation Masters; i.e.; the bankers; who rule us all – to work to silence free speech; i.e.; any opposition to their criminality and our slavery. C) They could have held the rally and just went home but because antifa and the anti free speechers are funded by the bankers the rally had to be attacked to advance the bankers Social Enginnering plan. The attack was a set-up involving the governor, the mayor, and even ( and especially ) the free speech organizer ( Kessler ) who was an Obama supporter/Democrat mole. D) The agenda is to attack caucasians and especially Christianity as the bankers know that their greatest enemy is Christianity and its power to free people from both personal slavery and the slavery of the state

  47. wolfefan

    Hi Andy – I have no idea how the folks in Charlottesville make their money. I suspect many of them get government largesse of one sort or another, and/or make their living directly or indirectly from government activities. For now, the system of government that we have allows the people who live there to choose their representatives to act on their behalf. The representatives the people chose made a decision. If the people of Charlottesville don’t like that decision they can vote out those representatives and elect new ones who will bring the statue back. That’s how it’s supposed to work. You and I can certainly express our opinions, although I have not expressed one, but in the end it’s their money and their say.

  48. Andy

    Don Grudmann said: “There was no reason to attack the free speechers except to forward the agenda of The Plantation Masters; i.e.; the bankers; who rule us all – to work to silence free speech; i.e.; any opposition to their criminality and our slavery.”

    Your use of the term “Plantation Masters” is both ironic and correct. If one supports the Federal Reserve System and taxation then one supports slavery. I bet that if you surveyed the anti-statue protesters that the vast majority of them, maybe even all of them, favor Marxist wealth redistribution.

    ” C) They could have held the rally and just went home but because antifa and the anti free speechers are funded by the bankers the rally had to be attacked to advance the bankers Social Enginnering plan. ”

    Exactly. It doesn’t matter who was speaking in that park. They had a permit (I do not generally agree with permits to speak, but there is a difference between a single speaker, or even a small group of speakers or demonstrators, and a mass demonstration, the Unite the Right was large enough to be classified as a mass demonstration, hence the need for a permit), and regardless of what you think of any of those in attendance (I’m sure that some of them were nefarious characters, but that’s not relevant), or their message, they had a right to speak.

    A similar rally was in fact held in Charlottesville several weeks prior to this, with at least a few of the same people involved, and there was no violence that time.

    There would have been no violence that day if the Antifa crowd had not been there, or if they went there, but did not initiate any violence, or, even with the Antifa crowd being there and trying to start violence, if the Charlottesville police had just done their freaking jobs and not been ordered to stand down. All the police had to do was form a wall between the Unite the Right people and the counter-protesters. Once the event was over, the police should have marched the Unite the Right people out of the park and away from the counter-protesters, and escorted them to their cars, and then directed traffic away from where any of the counter-protesters were. This would have been standard police procedure.

    This event was set up to end in violence so it could be hyped up on TV and be used as an excuse to crackdown on free speech in the future. The police stand down was done on purpose.

    “The attack was a set-up involving the governor, the mayor, and even ( and especially ) the free speech organizer ( Kessler ) who was an Obama supporter/Democrat mole.”

    Yep, and I would not be a bit surprised if Kessler (the Unite the Right organizer) was not in on it, and he probably was not the only one.

  49. Andy

    “wolfefan
    September 1, 2017 at 19:16
    Hi Andy – I have no idea how the folks in Charlottesville make their money. I suspect many of them get government largesse of one sort or another, and/or make their living directly or indirectly from government activities. For now, the system of government that we have allows the people who live there to choose their representatives to act on their behalf. The representatives the people chose made a decision. If the people of Charlottesville don’t like that decision they can vote out those representatives and elect new ones who will bring the statue back. That’s how it’s supposed to work. You and I can certainly express our opinions, although I have not expressed one, but in the end it’s their money and their say.”

    I understand your point. I was just expressing my opinion that people who work for or contract with government ought to not be able to vote, and the same goes with those who receive specific welfare from the government. I know that this is not the current law, but it is my opinion that it should have been added to the original Constitution, because I believe we’d have a lot more freedom in this country right now if people who live off of government were barred from voting (and from donating to political campaigns as well).

    I have no idea if there is any kind of deed covenant on this park, but I’d be curious to find out if there is. I know a few years back that there was a park in a city/town in another state that had a deed covenant on it, and where the Mayor and some members of the city/town council tried to illegally get around it by authorizing the building of a new city/town hall, or something like that, and this ended up being one of the things that led to these people being recalled from office.

    Another issue here is the inclusion of state and/or federal tax funds. Has the city of Charlottesville received state and/or federal taxpayer funds? I know that the university there has. It would not surprise me if the city has as well.

    I’ve heard that some of these left wing fanatics want to tear down Monticello, the home of Thomas Jefferson, which is in the same area in Virginia. I think that it is outside the city limits of Charlottesville, but it is in the same county, Albemerle. Should Monticello be next on their hit list? Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. He did have them set free as a part of his will, but he still owned them while he was alive. If they can get enough local people in that county fired up about it, should Monticello come down next?

  50. Andy

    ” I would not be a bit surprised if Kessler (the Unite the Right organizer) was not in on it, ”

    Should read, “I would not be a bit surprised if Kessler (the Unite the Right organizer) was in on it.”

  51. Anthony Dlugos

    re: DJ post of 18:32 today with the link to the Politico article on antifa violence,

    As Chomsky properly pointed out recently, violent antifa is the gift that keeps on giving for the fascists/white nationalists. If and when they really get the fascist properly motivated, they’ll get crushed by a ideology far more prepared and effective at using violence. Not to mention that this is a center-right country, and thus antifa will be fighting on what they will quickly find out is essentially home turf for the fascists.

  52. paulie

    That’s true. But it’s also an objective fact that they are not nearly as violent. Far right and racist terrorists are up there with Jihadis as the deadliest terrorist groups around. By contrast, far left terrorists have not killed any significant number of Americans since the 1970s. They are not even in the same league these days. Most antifascists are not violent, and the few who are do things like damage property and punch nazis, which is certainly bad, but not as bad as all the actual murders the fash side commits on a disturbingly regular basis.

  53. Anthony Dlugos

    “They are not even in the same league these days… the few who are do things like damage property and punch nazis, ”

    I agree. Chomsky’s point was essentially directed at the antifas who are resorting to property destruction, violence, and shutting up speech they don’t like. They don’t realize what they are up against.

  54. paulie

    I agree. Chomsky’s point was essentially directed at the antifas who are resorting to property destruction, violence, and shutting up speech they don’t like. They don’t realize what they are up against.

    And on that he is correct.

  55. Don J. Grundmann, D.C.

    …… an objective fact that they are not nearly as violent.”

    A statement that is a giant mountain of horseshit.

    Antifa has been selling brass knuckles on their website, tweeting pictures of nail studded baseball bats, having their goons hold sticks with nails at end so they can be used to stab people, and doing many many other totally violent actions.

    THEY toss urine and feces filled balloons and also explosives such as ” M 80’s ” which can blow your hand off. I counted at least 20, and it totaled probably more than 30, of these explosives tossed at the free speechers in Berkeley.

    They toss bottles and cans filled with cement. I was personally attacked when I went to the aid of a free speecher who was being dragged into the street and attacked by at least 10 of these animals. They always attack in packs like the cowards that they are.

    So please stop with the total horseshit/bs of how innocent they are.

    P.S. – The ” fash ” side ( the put down word for free speechers ) is NOT doing ” actual murders ” much less ” on a disturbingly regular basis.”

    Yet another totally ludicrous statement but then when do antifa/liberals NOT blow everything up by claiming that anyone who opposes them is ” Nazi ” and they are fighting for the working person?? A total crock since they are the stormtroopers of the bankers.

  56. V for Vagina

    “A statement that is a giant mountain of horseshit.”

    You’d have to be pretty dense to miss the fact that racist, white supremacists and fascists commit a lot of murders for their cause. From Dylan Roof to the Sikh Temple Shooter to Alex Fields in Charlottesville to more other cases than you can shake a stick at. Look up the terrorism by group breakdowns yourself, genius. Where are the equivalent murders by the left side? Back in the 1960s and 70s is where. And 35-0 on hospitalizations in Charlottesville, only 19 from the car attack. Which side is more violent?

    “Antifa has been…”

    None of those things are murders. They are objects, simple assaults and property destruction. Everyone here agrees that is bad but it’s nowhere near what the fash do on a regular basis.

    “So please stop with the total horseshit/bs of how innocent they are.”

    Everyone here agrees that there are violent people on the antifascist side, and that this is not in any way good. They are not nearly as violent as the people on the fash side though. What is so hard to understand?

    ” The ” fash ” side ( the put down word for free speechers )”

    They are not free speechers. They are fascist trash, or fash for short, who march down the street with swastikas and nazi salutes and nazi and antisemitic slogans, threaten violence before the event, hospitalize 35 people (to 0 on their own side, and not just from the vehicular assault) and kill a woman for exercising her free speech in opposing them. They only believe in free speech for themselves and not anyone else. None of the 20th century European regimes that they admire so much allowed free speech when they were in power. They don’t believe in free speech except as a cover for themselves to organize. Many of them would be just as happy if their own free speech was banned and they could claim the mantle of being censored, organizing in the shadows where cockroaches like them feel most at home.

    “NOT doing ” actual murders ” much less ” on a disturbingly regular basis.”

    You must live under a rock. Look up deaths by terrorism by group for yourself.

    ” when do antifa/liberals NOT blow everything up ”

    Who have they killed in this country in this century?

    “claiming that anyone who opposes them is ” Nazi ” ”

    Well when you walk down the street with swastikas all over the place doing Hitler salutes and chanting “blood and soil” and “Jews will not replace us” it’s kind of silly to say you are not a nazi, isn’t it? I mean what do they have to do to prove to you that they are nazis, reanimate Hitler’s corpse?

  57. Andy

    These Antifa people have initiated violence and property destruction at multiple events all over the country. The “Unite the Right” crowd has a long way to go to catch up with them.

    There are a lot more people involved in Antifa (and similar groups), and they also have a lot more funding, as they have received money from George Soros and the Ford Foundation.

    Is it possible that some groups involved in “Unite the Right” could become bigger threats than they are currently in the future? Sure, but like I said, they have a lot of catch up to do to compete with Antifa.

  58. paulie

    These Antifa people have initiated violence and property destruction at multiple events all over the country. The “Unite the Right” crowd has a long way to go to catch up with them.

    Not when it comes to murders or, as far as I know, hospitalizations.

    There are a lot more people involved in Antifa (and similar groups)

    And yet they are not killing and hospitalizing people like the AltReich fash are.

  59. paulie

    Is it possible that some groups involved in “Unite the Right” could become bigger threats than they are currently in the future? Sure, but like I said, they have a lot of catch up to do to compete with Antifa.

    That is delusional. And that’s putting it kindly.

  60. Root's Teeth Are Awesome

    Paulie, I don’t know where you get that only the anti-fascists were injured or hospitalized. I read websites across the political spectrum, including the Alt Right. They claim that one of their members was blinded in Charlottesville by Antifa.

    And footage of the Antifa activist macing “Baked Alaska” (the handle of the injured Alt Right guy):

  61. paulie

    I got that from news reports as well as from the fascists themselves. They bragged that no one on their side was injured or suffered property damage. Yes, people on both sides got maced but the effects of macing are temporary.

  62. Root's Teeth Are Awesome

    Seems the videos I embedded didn’t show up.

    “Baked Alaska” was hospitalized. You said no one from the Alt Right was hospitalized.

    And they don’t know what they sprayed in his eyes. They think it was either Bear Mace (not the regular kind), or acid, or some homemade brew of acid, amonia, and whatever else.

    Antifa has engaged in much violence. Even the Washington Post denounced Antifa’s violence in Berkley. I can’t believe that Antifa is violent in some cities, but peaceful in others.

  63. paulie

    Again, everyone agrees that there are some people claiming to be antifa who are violent. If your report is correct it changes the score to 34-1. I haven’t seen anything about the fascist being hospitalized and even if he was that would be only one case out of 35. That’s a huge disparity right there. Again, the white supremacists are actually killing people and not only in Charlottesville. Even the violent minority among antifascists do not do that. In his Vice interview Cuckwell brags that none of their people were hurt.

  64. Anthony Dlugos

    “Antifa has engaged in much violence. Even the Washington Post denounced Antifa’s violence in Berkley.”

    I would agree. I’d also agree with paulie that they like to break windows while the fascists/white nationalists like to break skulls. That, of course, doesn’t mean that antifa hasn’t gone after fascists directly. It seems they have. Chomsky admitted as such. But they don’t know what they are up against. The WN capacity for violence is higher, and the data so far bear that out. And the fascists haven’t even reached full potential yet. When they do, antifa will come to realize quite quickly they are outgunned, outmanned, and playing on foreign soil, essentially.

  65. Root's Teeth Are Awesome

    Anthony Dlugos: I’d also agree with paulie that they like to break windows while the fascists/white nationalists like to break skulls.

    I disagree. They both like to break skulls.

    But there’s a third culprit. The police. They did stand downs in Charlottesville, Boston, and Berkley.

    Police should have been a barrier between the two sides in Charlottesville. Instead, they told the Alt Right to leave, then directed them toward the Antifa.

    Why? Theories I’ve heard include:

    1. The police felt outnumbered, and wanted to save themselves.

    2. Those city governments sympathized with Antifa, and either thought Antifa could take on the Alt Right, or that violence would permit a police crackdown on the Alt Right.

    3. The State wants violence not just to crack down on the Alt Right, but to use the violence as an excuse to toughen laws so as to crack down on everyone.

    IAE, the police are supposed to protect everyone from violence. That’s their legitimate minarchist function. And yet, they’re permitting it.

  66. paulie

    I disagree. They both like to break skulls.

    Then how do you account for the vast disparity in injuries and deaths?

    But there’s a third culprit. The police. They did stand downs in Charlottesville, Boston, and Berkley.

    Police should have been a barrier between the two sides in Charlottesville. Instead, they told the Alt Right to leave, then directed them toward the Antifa.

    Why?

    Cops and Klan, hand in hand. It’s a well known fact that cops and racists have infiltrated each other so thoroughly that they are fused at the hip. I’ll also believe their general laziness and cowardice, wanting to save themselves rather than protect the public, played a role.

  67. Anthony Dlugos

    “Police should have been a barrier between the two sides in Charlottesville.”

    This I agree with.

    The Politico article posted by DJ on 9/1 at 18:32 was a somewhat portentous insight into (especially) federal law enforcement’s view of the situation. I’m no conspiracy theorist, nor do I tend to believe apocalyptic scenarios playing out, but one could read that article and see the potential of something similar to Weimar Republic circa late Twenties, with far left and right paramilitary organizations running around attacking each other, and then spiraling out of control. Thank god we have a sane head of state!

  68. Thomas L. Knapp

    “Antifa has engaged in much violence. Even the Washington Post denounced Antifa’s violence in Berkley. I can’t believe that Antifa is violent in some cities, but peaceful in others.”

    That’s just a fact. Since “Antifa” is an uncontrolled designator used by unaffiliated, autonomous groups all over the world, you’re going to get a lot of variety. Take “Harrisburg Antifa,” for example. The entire function of that Antifa group, while it existed, was to hype Augustus Invictus by making fake threats against the “Mid-Atlantic Liberty Festival.” Of course, it’s likely that “Harrisburg Antifa” was created by Augustus himself and/or his supporters for that purpose and will never be heard from again, but the next actual act of actual violence attributed to it will be the first.

  69. Don J. Grundmann, D.C.

    Dylan Roof, the Sikh shooter, and Fields ( if he indeed did the crime ) are all lone idiots. They did not, and do not, have an organized national movement behind them like the liberals/ ” progressives “/antifa do.

    Look at the website of By Any Means Necessary. Where do these rats get their big bucks money to build their national infrastructure??

    Answer – our banker Plantation Masters. Their lackeys are the controllers of the ” progressive ” mobs sent to both silence free speech and build the momentum toward the next steps in their plan of enslaving the nation.

    The ” progressives “/liberals/antifa are not a ” grass roots movement ” but a tightly controlled ( by The Establishment ) political hit squad designed to attack the cultural foundations of the nation.; just like ( in my opinion ) virtually every political party but the Constitution Party.

    We are being ” assimilated ” into the Borg/New World Order ” hive ” via stupid goons like the ” progressives ” who are all agents ( knowing or unknowing ) of The Plantation Masters.

  70. paulie

    Dylan Roof, the Sikh shooter, and Fields ( if he indeed did the crime ) are all lone idiots. They did not, and do not, have an organized national movement behind them

    ^ That’s total BS.

    https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2014/04/17/splc-report-nearly-100-murdered-stormfront-users

    “Almost 100 people were murdered over the last five years by registered users of Stormfront, the largest racist Web forum in the world, according to a report released today by the Southern Poverty Law Center. The forum in effect acts to nurture budding killers and give them moral support, the report says.”

    http://fortune.com/2017/08/26/charlottesville-violence-leaked-chats/

    “Well before a white nationalist “Unite the Right” demonstration turned deadly in Charlottesville this month, attendees were planning for violence, according to leaked online chats. In private chat channels, they shared advice on weaponry and tactics, including repeatedly broaching the idea of driving vehicles through opposition crowds. After the vehicular attack which killed counterprotestor Heather Heyer, users of the channel celebrated the event.”

  71. Don J. Grundmann, D.C.

    So much bs flying through the air – A) SPLC – a multi-million $ Establishment created, funded, and operated agency for attacking and destroying the Christian foundations of our society, culture, and nation. So of course ” progressives ” will go to them for ” facts ” every time as they can ALWAYS be counted on to lie just as ” progressives ” do.

    Will they produce the slightest squeak against anfifa/liberal/progressive violence/hate??? Answer – no possible way. Will they talk about all of the planning by the progressives to attack and hurt people?? No way. Those rats will ALWAYS be portrayed as Bambi’s – oh so innocent – while people standing for free speech will be endlessly smeared as part of the Social Engineering program of the Plantation Master controllers of the ” progressives.”

    B) Easy enough for a progressive rat to infiltrate the free speecher targets, make a comment about running people down with a car ( just like the Muslim friends of the ” progressives ” like to do ) and then have it brought to pass as part of the intelligence operation which was designed to smear free speechers, provide an excuse to attack Trump, and achieve many other ” goals ” by killing that cannon fodder lady.

    C) 5 Dallas cops killed by a Black Lives Matter rat. If you want to compare the murders committed I am sure that I can find many many more by progressive rodents and that the SPLC ” almost 100 in 5 years ” figure can be exposed as a lie. Why? Because lying is what and all that they do.

    They, like their antifa/progressive/liberal friends, despise America and especially the Christian foundations upon which it was built. P]

  72. Andy

    “Don J. Grundmann, D.C.
    September 3, 2017 at 10:46
    Dylan Roof,”

    Dylan Roof did have a national organization behind him. They are called the US government intelligence agencies. The FBI, DHS, etc… There is a mountain of evidence that the Charleston Church shooting was a false flag/hoax. Roof was likely some drugged up pasty that they had under government handlers. The FBI just so happened to be conducting an active shoot drill in Charleston during the same time that this shooting took place. Roof supposedly blew 9 people away inside a church, yet it was like 3 days later that they reopened the church for a church service. So they cleaned up all of the blood and bullet holes and opened up a crime scene for lots of people to walk in and out and contaminate the crime scene evidence that quickly. Yeah, right. The family members of the alleged victims all got paid millions of dollars, a large portion of which was from taxpayer funds. People die everyday, yet the government doesn’t send them any money.

    Those of you who don’t think that the government would do anything like this are uninformed and naive. There is a declassified government document from the 1960’s called Operation Northwoods where they talked about staging terror attacks, including shootings, and they even talked about having fake victims, and hold funerals for the fake victims.

    Here is the Wikipedia entry on Operation Northwoods:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

    If you believe what the government and mainstream news media tells you to believe then you are naive. People in government have been caught lying so many times that a lot of people have come to expect politicians to lie, and the mainstream media has been caught lying so many times that the term “Fake News” in reference to the mainstream media has now worked its way into the culture.

  73. paulie

    Black supremacists are not the same category as leftists. There is really no reason to classify them as left or right, But even if you classify them as left they have committed 2% of the terrorist murders while white supremacists have committed 74%.

    The fash, once again, are not for free speech, except their own, and you don’t have to infiltrate them to get them to talk about the things a lot of them talk about all the time, such as running people down with cars. Along with all the other terrorist murder methods they both talk about and carry out on a regular basis.

    If you don’t like the SPLC examine their full report and look at the source materials yourself. There are plenty of sources to show the mass murderous nature of the fash, not just in a few isolated incidents but in an ongoing pattern. It’s also part of their ideology as well.

    “I am sure that I can find many many more by progressive rodents ”

    Go ahead and try.

    “SPLC ” almost 100 in 5 years ” figure can be exposed as a lie.”

    Go ahead and try.

    “despise America ”

    So do the nazis who you falsely call “free speech” (they are anything but as I can personally attest from my own experience with them) … which is why they waged war on the US and call for another one.

    Also, Andy, even if one the many racist killers was a government plant – and you haven’t shown that he is – it wouldn’t explain the whole pattern of multiple incidents going on for years (and a lot more talk where they came from). Are they all plants? Every one of them? Seems highly unlikely to say the least.

  74. Anthony Dlugos

    “…it wouldn’t explain the whole pattern of multiple incidents going on for years (and a lot more talk where they came from). Are they all plants? Every one of them?”

    oh, no, you didn’t just ask that question!!

    INCOMING TROOFER DELUGE ALERT!!

  75. Andy

    What happened in Charlottesvile was the latest manipulation from the puppet masters.

    “All the world’s a stage, they are merely players, performers and portrayers, we are just the audience, locked in the government cage,” to borrow some lyrics from the song Limelight, by the band Rush, just changing the lyrics a little bit.

    Proof That Donald Trump is Deeply Connected to George Soros

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj92MPCPmiQ

  76. Anthony Dlugos

    “Proof That Donald Trump is Deeply Connected to George Soros.”

    lol. now you’re just being stupid.

  77. Weldon T. Farber

    ” Fields ( if he indeed did the crime )”

    It wasn’t him? Who was it, Soros? Was he behind the wheel?

  78. Don J. Grundmann, D.C.

    ” Black supremacists are not the same catagory as leftists.”

    On the contrary, they all ( BLM, antifa, liberals, ” progressives,” leftists ) all come from the same salad bowl –
    They hate God and love Lucifer
    They hate Christianity and love any other religion and especially Humanism, Satanism, and Islam.
    They hate the nuclear family; i.e.; husband, wife, and children.
    They hate caucasians
    They hate normal, healthy people.
    They hate men but love and cultivate males; i.e.; inferior men.
    They hate women but love and cultivate feminists; i.e.; inferior women who support the shredding of children known as abortion.
    They hate free speech since they cannot articulate equal or superior arguments or ideas.

    Bottom Line – They all have the same foundational belief system – religion – that is their motivation and cause for existing ( not living ).

    They are inherently extremely violent and will stab their grandmother in the back to advance their Enemy of God Masters agenda.

  79. Chuck Moulton

    Grundmann and Andy seem to be having a contest to out-crazy each other… I can’t tell who is winning, but it’s clear all the readers are losing by being subjected to the word salad garbage they puke up here on a daily basis.

  80. dL

    Grundmann and Andy seem to be having a contest to out-crazy each other

    Nah, you would have to be a real piece of Jesus work to out-crazy Grundmann.

  81. Thomas L. Knapp

    —–
    “Proof That Donald Trump is Deeply Connected to George Soros.”

    lol. now you’re just being stupid.
    —–

    I guess it depends on what is meant by “deeply connected.” Soros loaned Trump $160 million in 2004 to build the Chicago Trump Tower.

    Trump and Soros were also co-defendants in a RICO suit accusing the two of them and Deutsche Bank to rig bidding for construction of a building in Manhattan.

    Trump was also reported (by the New York Post) to have attended a private Christmas Party with Soros and Oliver Stone.

    Not sure how “deep” the implied connection is. I know that I’d consider $160 million a pretty damn deep connection if someone loaned that much to me.

  82. Anthony Dlugos

    I’d say rich people are connected to other rich people by no more than two degrees of separation anyway. No Bilderberg Group shenanigans necessary.

    Also, I considered the source.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *