October 2017 Open Thread

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Our monthly open thread. Post news tips about alt parties and independent candidates, discuss any story that should be posted here but has not yet been posted, or even delve into completely off-topic stuff…just avoid quarantined thread subject matter and things that could get us and/or you into legal trouble such as threats, libel, and copyright infringement.

News tips can also be sent to the IPR writers who have chosen to make their contact info available at http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/about/.

Our video this month, an IPR Open Thread tradition:

184 thoughts on “October 2017 Open Thread

  1. Thane Eichenauer

    I certainly do miss the old Juice Media where any given episode had a thesis, an anti-thesis and some commentary by Robert Foster. The current Juice Media and their OK but quite a bit less than stellar Honest Government Advert series leaves much to be desired.

    ROBERT FOSTER WHERE ARE YOU?

    The Economy: Ron Paul vs Zeitgeist [RAP NEWS 9] -> https://youtu.be/ELEwjVRxxGE

  2. Michael

    I’m a Libertarian. I don’t want 2000 candidates. I want 200 candidates that are so strong that my non-libertarian Dad would vote for them (the Dad test).

    That means people with a record of public engagement. That means people who have run for, and won, a local office before they run for Congress. That means people whose resume on LinkedIn looks as good as the other candidates that non-ideological voters actually vote for.

    How about 200 strong candidates plus 1800 filler candidates? I don’t want that because I believe it hurts our brand. That strategy leads voters to assume that 90% of the time (at least), when they look at a Libertarian candidate they are looking at a filler candidate.

    When voters look at a Libertarian candidate I want them to see someone who has served on a school board, or who has been a mayor, or who is a respected college professor, or a small business owner. And I want them to see candidates with that experience and gravitas all the time, until they learn to associate us with competence. Oddball minority competence, of course, but competent for the job.

  3. Tony From Long Island

    Hey Andy . . . . another “false flag” operation last night? Oh wait . . . you need to analyze the evidence first, right?

  4. DJ

    Tony, you didn’t think…. you reacted which is an instinct. Thinking dictates a response. There is a difference.

    An excerpt

    A “press release,” which accompanied the video and was also made available on the website of Refuse Fascism, makes it clear that this particular piece of criminal behavior was part of a plan to promote November 4 as a day to:

    Take To The Streets And Public Squares in cities and towns across the country continuing day after day and night after night — not stopping — until our DEMAND is met: This Nightmare Must End: The Trump/ Pence Regime Must Go!

    The “press release” goes on to say:

    The activists spoke out: “The Trump Regime Must and Can Be Stopped. This is not wishful thinking but could be made a reality if all who hate what is represented by this fascist regime translate our outrage into a massive, sustained mobilization to create the political conditions which make this possible. We are millions. Our only recourse now is to act together outside normal channels. On November 4 – It Begins. Every faction within the established power structure must be forced to respond to what we do — creating a situation where the Trump/Pence regime is removed from power.”

    The non-violent civil disobedience activists warned: “The Trump/Pence regime will repeatedly launch new highly repressive measures, eventually clamping down on all resistance and remaking the law… IF THEY ARE NOT DRIVEN FROM POWER.”

    They declared: “NO! We REFUSE To Accept A Fascist America. Now is the time to raise the alarm… now is the time to throw yourselves in with all the passion, creativity, energy, and determination this cause deserves…now is the time to organize, prepare for, and let everyone know about what begins on November 4 ~ In the Name of Humanity, This Fascist Trump/Pence Regime Must GO!”

    And:

    Our protest must grow day after day and night after night — thousands becoming hundreds of thousands, and then millions — determined to act to put a stop to the grave danger that the Trump/Pence Regime poses to the world by demanding that this whole regime be removed from power.
    …………

    As with the documentary you attack the website (messenger) and ignore the message. Just like whiny, cry baby, Republicans who learned the tactic from whiny, cry baby, Democrats, both of which worship at the feet of the church of godvernment “leaders”.

    BTW, moron, I don’t agree with your fact checking website since it is obviously biased. It’s “attack” on TNA’s climate change article proved it’s bias by repeating a fallacious talking point about science being a consensus which is why I posted the definition previously which you then reacted (again) about my response to your reaction claiming that your reaction wasn’t about me and I shouldn’t flatter myself in such a manner. LOL….. moron, you are 0 to be flattered about, and your moronic attack on a web site is just that.
    …………

    From the quoted web site

    https://refusefascism.org/2017/08/06/this-nightmare-must-end-the-trumppence-regime-must-go/

    ON NOVEMBER 4, 2017:

    We will gather in the streets and public squares of cities and towns across this country, at first many thousands declaring that this whole regime is illegitimate and that we will not stop until our single demand is met: This Nightmare Must End: the Trump/Pence Regime Must Go!

    Our protest must grow day after day and night after night—thousands becoming hundreds of thousands, and then millions—determined to act to put a stop to the grave danger that the Trump/Pence Regime poses to the world by demanding that this whole regime be removed from power.

    Our actions will reflect the values of respect for all of humanity and the world we want—in stark contrast to the hate and bigotry of the Trump/Pence fascist regime.

    Our determination to persist and not back down will compel the whole world to take note. Every force and faction in the power structure would be forced to respond to our demand. The cracks and divisions among the powers already evident today will sharpen and widen. As we draw more and more people forward to stand up, all of this could lead to a situation where this illegitimate regime is removed from power.

    Spread the word and organize now. Be a part of making history. Don’t let it be said that you stood aside when there was still a chance to stop a regime that imperils humanity and the Earth itself. Join in taking to the streets and the public squares day after day and night after night demonstrating that In the Name of Humanity, We REFUSE to Accept a Fascist America.

    On November 4, 2017, we will stand together with conviction and courage, overcoming fear and uncertainty, to insist that: This Nightmare Must End: The Trump/Pence Regime Must GO!

  5. Tony From Long Island

    DJ: If you think I’m going to read all that nonsense, you are crazy. Are you not capable of being concise?

    Your previous post was quite concise. It said ” . . .Antifa Planning Communist Revolution for America on November 4 . . . ”

    Whatever link you provided was not worth clicking on because your description of it was so ridiculously stupid. I didn’t “react.” I didn’t use “instinct.” I used intellect. Reading anything of such a hyperbolic and ridiculous nature isn’t worth the energy it would take my finger to click the mouse . . . .

    You don’t “Agree” with MY fact checking website because it’s biased! ROFL!! It’s not MY site. It’s A site. If you look past their accurate descriptions of your right-wing nut-baggery sites, it’s also quite accurate at describing Left-Wing sites. I know you find facts to be hard to accept, but do try. It’s pretty liberating. Try it again https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/ put “Daily Kos” into the search box.

    . . . . . not surprising that you want Andy to “keep up the good work.”

  6. Luke

    Radical communists issue ridiculous hyperbole about the masses rising up and overthrowing the capitalist system! Quick everyone, hide under your bed! LOL.

    Apparently these morons learned nothing from Occupy Wall Street. That fell apart when the weather turned cold. November is not when you start your “revolution” or you won’t even have enough people show up to have it covered as a demonstration much less a revolution. This isn’t some other country like Russia where November revolutions take place; Americans are just too spoiled for that.

    Leave it up to the Birchers and their “New American” to take this “threat” seriously.

  7. Luke

    “I certainly do miss the old Juice Media where any given episode had a thesis, an anti-thesis and some commentary by Robert Foster. The current Juice Media and their OK but quite a bit less than stellar Honest Government Advert series leaves much to be desired.

    ROBERT FOSTER WHERE ARE YOU?”

    Apparently the guy who plays Robert Foster had a falling out with the guy who does the writing/inspiring of ideas. I agree the old Rap News was better, but the “ads” are still pretty good.

  8. Tony From Long Island

    Jill. A friend tipped me off to that web site a few months back. I find it rather accurate. It rates both conservative and liberal sites.

    He had made an argument and his friend called him on a source. So, when he told me about it, I checked it out.

    Sadly, it can’t rate Andy’s You Tube videos!

  9. Tony From Long Island

    I find it difficult to figure out a site that ranks daily kos and Talking points memo as far left as biased. I haven’t found one site on there that I thought was unfairly ranked. Maybe something should be “left-center” rather than “left” or “right center” instead of “right,” but that’s just nit-picking.

    It’s too bad that you can’t fairly evaluate your own sources. I freely admit that I read Talking Points Memo every day and I know that it leans left – just as it is ranked.

    Disappointing that you can’t do the same.

    Give me an example of a ranking you find fault with.

  10. The Ghost of Andrew Anglin

    The adventures of the operators of the Daily Stormer continue. It would appear based on independent reports that the Daily Stormer domain name DailyStormer.IS has been suspended.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/will-daily-stormer-founder-andrew-anglin-lose-his-website-on-the-lam
    https://grapevine.is/news/2017/09/29/dailystormer-likely-losing-its-is-domain-today/

    Seemingly ever one step ahead of the domain name repo man they have apparently moved on the the “.cat” domain which in its Daily Stormer manifestation is a land half “en Español” and half with feline imagery.

    Many (in this case ISNIC) seem to have doubts as to whether the supposed operator Andrew Anglin even exists. Jim Goad apparently has little doubt.

    https://dailystormer.cat/entrevista-jim-goad-amb-andrew-anglin/

  11. Jill Pyeatt

    All I needed to see was their ranking for both the Washington Post and The New York Times as being slightly to the left. They’re both extremely to the left.

    I just find it amusing that people have to go someplace to check a site and can’t figure it out for themselves.

  12. Tony From Long Island

    It’s not for me to figure out for myself. It’s to call others on their crap. Then again, you truly believe that Hilary Clinton ran a child sex ring out of a pizza shop so . . .

    Did you read their methodology? Might answer some of your questions.

  13. Jill Pyeatt

    Then again, you truly believe that Hilary Clinton ran a child sex ring out of a pizza shop so . . .

    I never said this, nor ever believed it. This is why I never bother here any more. Commenters here slot others into a category of Right or Left, or Good or Bad, just like much of the people in this country do. There’s rarely genuine dialog, or critical thinking anymore.

  14. Jill Pyeatt

    However, if you’re really interested in some of what criminal acts I believe Hillary has committed, I’ll be happy to post that with links to back it up.

    I believe her campaign manager John Podesta is a pedophile, as well as her good friend Jeff Epstein. Hillary knew about it their activities, just as she knew Anthony Wiener was texting a mentally unstable kid and chose to do nothing about it. Perhaps that’s not criminal, but it’s certainly unethical in my book.

  15. dL

    All I needed to see was their ranking for both the Washington Post and The New York Times as being slightly to the left. They’re both extremely to the left.

    If “extremely left” refers to the the WP currently running a large number of articles on libertarian philosophy, well I can perhaps accept that definition. Nonetheless, I would contend that the Post, like The NY Times, is center right.

  16. dL

    Then again, you truly believe that Hilary Clinton ran a child sex ring out of a pizza shop so . . .

    I never said this, nor ever believed it. This is why I never bother here any more. Commenters here slot others into a category of Right or Left, or Good or Bad, just like much of the people in this country do. There’s rarely genuine dialog, or critical thinking anymore.

    Well, actually you sort of did…at least, initially.

    Tony, you are wrong to write off Pizzagate as Fake News or a conspiracy theory. This story is huge and will not go away. Despite the mainstream media’s campaign to get us to ignore it, citizen journalists everywhere (like me) will not let this go.

    This scandal is part of the reason Hillary didn’t win.

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2016/12/december-2016-open-thread/#comment-1490570

  17. Just Some Random Guy

    So, question. Is there any place where I could find a full list of Libertarian candidates for office? Now, I’m sure you can easily point me to the Candidate page on their site (https://www.lp.org/2017-candidates/), but that only lists people running for office in 2017. I was trying to find a list that includes people who are running for office in 2018 (e.g. Justin O’Donnell or Laura Ebke). Is there any such list? Actually, a place that just lists the ones for 2018 would be fine, as the 2017 is available on the site. Searching, the best I could find is this:
    https://www.facebook.com/LPC2018/

    You can find some candidates there, but it’s not in a simple and convenient list like it is on the LP’s site, and only a few are really listed there.

  18. Tony From Long Island

    Jill

    There’s rarely genuine dialog, or critical thinking anymore.

    There doesn’t need to be a “genuine dialog” about whether or not Hillary Clinton was running a child sex ring.

    You are too quick to write off https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/

    If you think that the NYT and WAPO are “hard left” then you are not very familiar with left media. You may not care for some of their editorials, but they are both left-center. I again suggest that you read the methodology they use.

    Jill:

    This is why I never bother here any more. Commenters here slot others into a category of Right or Left, or Good or Bad,

    Jill, I don’t “slot” you anywhere. You often makes posts that I agree with and I say so when I do. When you make a “bad” post, I say so. It’s not calling you a “bad” person.

  19. Tony From Long Island

    Jill

    I believe her campaign manager John Podesta is a pedophile, as well as her good friend Jeff Epstein.

    With Epstein, at least there is some sort of evidence to support your assertion. However, “pedophilia” refers to sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children. Everything I’ve read about Epstein indicates that he has had encounters with adolescents – which is not pedophilia (though a violation of the law).

    I know of no credible allegations of misconduct made against Mr. Podesta. Guilt by association is a rather poor way to judge a person. Too many people throw around the word “pedophile” without really knowing what it means, particularly without anything but a gut feeling to back it up. It’s one of the worst labels one can be slapped with.

    I am acquainted with several people who have criminal records, some of whom have committed sexual offenses. Am I just as bad as them?

  20. Tony From Long Island

    Hey Andy, the Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler Alex Jones has labeled Vegas a False Flag . . . I guess you have studied the evidence, right? It’s a deep-state operation! OJ’s release had to have something to do with it I’m sure . . .

  21. George Phillies

    For 2017 state legislatures, note BallotPedia.com.

    For 2018 races, with equal coverage to all parties, politics1.com, but they only cover Federal and Statewide offices. One the other hand, they go down to somewhat minor third parties, for example, at one time they covered the Phalangist Party, the local offshoot of a Lebanese Party of more or less the same name.

  22. Krzysztof Lesiak

    Three updates:

    1) I was on mandatory “vacation” at Chicago Behavioral Hospital in Des Plaines, Illinois from September 25th to October 5th, 2017. I met some really cool people in there and had great discussions on politics, philosophy, religion and spirituality. I now have “meds” prescribed by a licensed psychiatrist born in Pinochet Country (Argentina) (Risperdal and Trazodone).

    2) I’m officially ending my short lived campaign for Mount Prospect, Illinois trustee. I’m fully committed to the Jehovah Witness route, which inlcudes not running for office or voting.

    3) I think Randy Stufflebeam, the CP’s 2018 gubernatorial candidate in Illinois, would make a fine candidate for the Constitution Party’s 2020 presidential candidate. Of course, it’s possible Mr. Stufflebeam is not interested.

    Peace.

  23. Anthony Dlugos

    “Last year, William F. Weld stormed out of the Republican Party, registered as a Libertarian Party member, and joined its national ticket as a vice-presidential candidate, vowing his fidelity to his new political home.”

    I hope there wasn’t anyone in Orlando dumb enough to interpret Governor Weld’s vow of fealty to include wasting his time away gathering signatures or trying to build up county affiliates or something. I know I didn’t. Personally, I expected him to bolt the day after the presidential election. I’m not dumb enough to think we have any leverage with an ex-governor.

    This is from the article:

    “Reached this week, Weld attributed his flirtation with his old state party to his personal relationships within the state GOP.

    As for his declarations of being free of the GOP, he said he remains committed to the Libertarians — but apparently with a caveat. Not in Massachusetts.

    “I am close to Charlie Baker and [Lieutenant Governor] Karyn Polito and Beth [Lindstrom],’’ he said. “It would be odd not to support them.”

    What’s the problem here? The man has personal relationships with these people. The fact that he says he remains committed to Libertarians is about all we could expect out of the situation.

    Ron Paul endorsed Baldwin in 2008 and he still get venerated, plus a delegate in Orlando.

  24. Krzysztof Lesiak

    [Produced by Soulshock and Karlin]

    [Hook: 2Pac]
    It’s just me against the world
    Nothin’ to lose
    It’s just me against the world, baby
    I got nothin’ to lose
    It’s just me against the world
    Stuck in the game
    Me against the world, baby

    [Verse 1: 2Pac]
    Can you picture my prophecy?
    Stress in the city, the cops is on top of me
    The projects is full of bullets; though bodies is droppin’
    There ain’t no stoppin’ me
    Constantly movin’ while makin’ millions
    Witnessin’ killings, leavin’ dead bodies in abandoned buildings
    Can’t reach the children, ’cause they’re illin’
    Addicted to killin’ and the appeal from the cap peelin’
    Without feelin’, but will they last or be blasted?
    Hard-headed bastard, maybe he’ll listen in his casket
    The aftermath: more bodies bein’ buried
    I’m losin’ my homies in a hurry, they’re relocatin’ to the cemetery
    Got me worried, stressin’, my vision’s blurry
    The question is, will I live? No one in the world loves me
    I’m headed for danger, don’t trust strangers
    Put one in the chamber whenever I’m feelin’ this anger
    Don’t wanna make excuses
    ‘Cause this is how it is; what’s the use?
    Unless we’re shootin’, no one notices the youth
    It’s just me against the world, baby

    [Hook: 2Pac & Puff Johnson]
    Me against the world
    It’s just me against the world
    It’s just me against the world
    Me against the world
    ‘Cause it’s just me against the world, baby
    Me against the world
    I got nothin’ to lose
    It’s just me against the world, baby
    I got nothin’ to lose

    [Verse 2: Yaki Kadafi]
    Could somebody help me? I’m out here all by myself
    See ladies in stores, Baby Capone’s, livin’ wealthy
    Pictures of my birth on this Earth is what I’m dreamin’
    Seein’ Daddy’s semen, full of crooked demons
    Already crazy and screamin’, I guess them nightmares as a child
    Had me scared, but left me prepared for a while
    Is there another route? For a crooked Outlaw
    Veteran, a villain, a young thug, who one day shall fall

    [Verse 3: E.D.I. Mean]
    Everyday there’s mo’ death, and plus I’m dough-less
    I’m seein’ more reasons for me to proceed with thievin’
    Scheme on the schemin’ and leave they peeps grievin’
    ‘Cause ain’t no bucks to stack up
    My nuts is backed up, I’m about to act up
    Go load the MAC up, now watch me klacka
    Tried makin’ fat cuts, but yo, it ain’t workin’
    And evil’s lurkin’, I can see him smirkin’ when I gets to pervin’
    So what? Go put some work in, and make my mail
    Makin’ sales, riskin’ 25 with a L, but oh well

    [Hook: 2Pac & Puff Johnson]
    Me against the world
    With nothin’ to lose
    It’s just me against the world
    It’s just me against the world, baby
    Me against the world
    I got nothin’ to lose
    It’s just me against the world
    It’s just me against the world, baby
    With nothin’ to lose
    It’s just me against the world, baby
    Me against the world
    Me against the world
    I got nothin’ to lose
    It’s just me against the world, baby

    [Verse 4: 2Pac]
    With all this extra stressin’
    The question I wonder is after death, after my last breath
    When will I finally get to rest through this oppression?
    They punish the people that’s askin’ questions
    And those that possess steal from the ones without possessions
    The message I stress: to make it stop, study your lessons
    Don’t settle for less, even the genius asks his questions
    Be grateful for blessings
    Don’t ever change, keep your essence
    The power is in the people and politics we address
    Always do your best, don’t let the pressure make you panic
    And when you get stranded
    And things don’t go the way you planned it
    Dreamin’ of riches, in a position of makin’ a difference
    Politicians are hypocrites, they don’t wanna listen
    If I’m insane, it’s the fame made a brother change
    It wasn’t nothin’ like the game; it’s just me against the world

    [Hook: 2Pac & Puff Johnson]
    Me against the world
    Nothin’ to lose
    It’s just me against the world, baby
    Me against the world
    Got me stuck in the game
    It’s just me against the world
    Nothin’ to lose
    It’s just me against the world, baby
    Me against the world

    [Outro: 2Pac]
    Hahaha, that’s right
    I know it seem hard sometimes
    But, uh, remember one thing
    Through every dark night, there’s a bright day after that
    So no matter how hard it get
    Stick your chest out, keep your head up, and handle it

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cjv7hEAytU

  25. Krzysztof Lesiak

    This is my last IPR comment for the day – one of the TOP FIVE BEST RAP SONGS EVER MADE:

    You Never Know – Immortal Technique (Dir. Al Mukadam)

    She was on her way to becomin’ a college graduate
    Wouldn’t even stop to talk to the average kid
    The type of Latina I’d sit and contemplate marriage with
    Fuck the horse and carriage shit, her love was never for hire
    Disciplined, intellectual beauty is what I desire
    Flyer than Salma Hayek or Jennifer Lopez
    Everyone told me, kickin’ it to her was hopeless
    At first I just thought she didn’t mess with broke kids
    The thug niggas always talkin’ about how they smoke kids
    But the rich sniff-coke kids got no play
    “I’m not even interested” is what her body language would say
    Everyone around the way gave up tryin’ to get in it
    It didn’t matter how good your game was, she wasn’t with it
    On the block, bitches was jealous but wouldn’t admit it
    Talk shit, and deny to everyone that they did it, ‘cause they regretted the long list of niggas that they let hit it
    And no one ever gave them shit except McDonald’s and did-dick
    Smokin’ weed, with thoughts of envy whenever they lit it
    She spoke intelligently and they bit it, always tryin’ to copy
    But when they tried to use her vocab they sounded sloppy
    She had a style, all her own, respectful and pure
    I was sick in the head for her, and there wasn’t a cure

    [Hook: Jean Grae]
    Don’t you know that time waits for no man?
    My fate, it’s all planned
    I’m blessed just to know you
    I’ve loved and I’ve lost just to hold you all night
    Can’t find a reason why
    God came between you and I
    If I had the chance again, I’d never let you go
    Hold tight to your love, ‘cause you never know

    [Verse 2: Immortal Technique]
    Her eyes are brown and beautiful, yet empty and sad
    I used to talk to her occasionally, and she was glad
    That I wasn’t just another nigga tryin’ to get in it
    So every now and then we’d stop and talk for a minute
    I didn’t have a gimmick, so the minutes turned to hours
    On her birthday I gave her a poem with flowers
    Then I took her out to dinner after her cousin’s baby shower
    We talked about power to the people and such
    We spent more time together, but it was never enough
    I never tried to sneak a touch or even cop a feel
    I was too interested in keepin’ it real
    Perfectly honest and complete
    She would always call me “cariño” and never Technique
    Bought me a new book to read every two or three weeks
    Forever changin’ the expression of my thoughts when I speak
    It was because of her I even deaded all of my freaks
    She convinced me to stop hangin’ out on the streets
    To stop robbin’ and stealin’ from people like you
    Instead I took her out to the Apollo and the Bronx Zoo
    Museo del Barrio, and the Metropolitan too
    Got to the point when I was either with her or my crew
    So I decided one day to tell her my feelings was true
    I couldn’t live without her, so I told her, facin’ my fears
    But honey’s only response was a face full of tears
    She could only sob hysterically, holdin’ me tight
    I tried to speak, but she wouldn’t stop until I left sight
    I felt like a moth who got himself too close to the light
    Except I didn’t burn, I turned cold after that night

    [Hook: Jean Grae]
    Don’t you know that time waits for no man?
    My fate, it’s all planned
    I’m blessed just to know you
    I’ve loved and I’ve lost just to hold you all night
    Can’t find a reason why
    God came between you and I
    If I had the chance again, I’d never let you go
    Hold tight to your love, ‘cause you never know

    [Verse 3: Immortal Technique]
    I went on with my life, college and my career
    Ended up locked up like an animal for a year
    Where the C.O.’s talk to you like they were the overseer
    Then I got sent to the hole when my exit was near
    At night in my cell, I’d close my eyes and I’d see her
    Hold her close in my dreams, but when I woke she disappeared
    Just an empty cell until the state gave me parole
    In the summer, came back, intact and on track
    But the fact of the matter is I still felt cold
    Even after my mother hugged me, cryin’ at home
    My real niggas would catch me thinkin’, outta my zone
    Fuckin’ lots of different women, but I still felt alone
    Relatively well-known around the New York underground
    But I kept thinkin’ of her and how we used to be down
    The sound of her voice, and the beautiful smell of her hair
    Though gone physically, somehow it was still there
    I had to do somethin’ because the shit was too much to bear
    So I went and visited the building where she used to live
    The world looks a lot different after you do a bid
    The way your life done changed
    While primitive minds are still stuck in the same game
    Like her cousin who was on the corner, slangin’ cocaine
    Stepped in the lobby, and tapped the button next to her last name
    Her mom buzzed me up and hugged me up like a mother oughta
    But her facial expression changed
    When I asked about her daughter

    [Hook: Jean Grae]
    Don’t you know that time waits for no man?
    My fate, it’s all planned
    I’m blessed just to know you
    I’ve loved and I’ve lost just to hold you all night
    Can’t find a reason why
    God came between you and I
    If I had the chance again, I’d never let you go
    Hold tight to your love, ‘cause you never know

    [Verse 4: Immortal Technique]
    She told me that there was a note, for me, that was left behind
    And she had left it there waitin’ for such a long time
    I was inclined to ask about it, but she brought it up first
    I saw a tear swellin’ up in her eye, and then she cursed
    She told me where the letter was, and I started thinkin’ the worst
    Reversed my position, stepped over and opened the door
    And sure enough there was an envelope
    With my name on the floor: “Nobody loves you more than me, cariño,” is what the letter said
    “By the time you get to read this, I’ll probably be dead
    But when you left in ’97, a part of me went to Heaven
    I thank God at least I got to know what love really was
    But it hurt me to see what true love really does
    ‘Cause even though we never made love
    You were all that there was
    It was because I loved you so much that I had to make you leave
    You made me doubt the way I thought
    You made me want to believe
    And then I slipped up, and I let you get close to me
    It was hard to not be openly when people spoke to me
    This was not the way I thought my life was supposed to be
    Baby, don’t you see?
    I had a blood transfusion that left me with HIV
    Hope didn’t exist for me since late in 1993
    I died a virgin, I wish I could’ve given myself to you
    I cried in the hospital because there was no one else but you
    Promise that you’ll meet me in Paradise inevitably
    No matter what, I’ll keep your love forever with me.”
    What happened for the rest of the day is still a blur
    But I remember wishin’ that I was dead, instead of her
    She was buried on August 3rd
    The story ends without a sequel; and now you know why Technique don’t fuckin’ fall in love with people
    Hold the person that you love closely if they’re next to you
    The one you love, not the person that’ll simply have sex with you
    Appreciate them to the fullest extent and then beyond
    ‘Cause you never really know what you got until it’s gone

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv7w200rrcs

  26. paulie Post author

    I now have “meds” prescribed by a licensed psychiatrist

    That’s good. I hope they work for you and that you stay on them.

    born in Pinochet Country (Argentina)

    LOL, nope…that would be Chile for Pinochet. Argentina was Peron.

  27. Libertydave

    With all the news about the tragedy in Las Vegas and the talk of gun control and repealing the second amendment, I thought a reminder of why the second amendment is so important would be a good idea.

    There is a documentary called “Innocents Betrayed” that explains why gun control always ends up to be bad for ordinary people.

    Here is a link to the documentary on YouTube
    Innocents Betrayed – The History of Gun Control – FULL LENGTH

  28. paulie Post author

    I agree it’s certainly bad for ordinary people, but I don’t like to call it gun control. Gun control is hitting your target. Victim disarmament is what we are discussing here. Gun monopoly would be a neutral phrase.

    But I don’t see any major victim disarmament legislation passing right now. Maybe some symbolic legislation such as outlawing bump stocks, but that’s about it. And with 3D printing growing in popularity and dropping in price as time goes on, even if major legislation does pass, I don’t see it being enforced with any effectiveness – just more meaningless security theater. But I don’t even see it passing at all with a Republican congress and president.

  29. Andy

    Anthony Dlugos said: “Ron Paul endorsed Baldwin in 2008 and he still get venerated, plus a delegate in Orlando.”

    That’s because the Libertarian Party nominated a turd of a candidate who wasn’t really a libertarian for President in 2008 in Bob Barr. Chuck Baldwin was more libertarian than Bob Barr was.

    Do a comparison between Ron Paul and Bill Weld to see who is more libertarian. Ron Paul wins this , and it is not even close. Bill Weld does not even deserve to be called a libertarian.

  30. Anthony Dlugos

    Use whatever dopey justification you want, Bill Weld has gotten excoriated for his less-than-doctrinaire positions, his waffling between the LP and the GOP, and personal predilections for particular individuals, Ron Paul does the same thing and gets venerated.

    Chuck Baldwin is no libertarian.

  31. NewFederalist

    “Chuck Baldwin is no libertarian.” – Anthony Dlugos

    And none of the last three LP presidential nominees, either!

  32. Andy

    Check Baldwin is more libertarian than Bob Barr and Bill Weld, as well as anyone else who has been on the LP’s presidential ticket since 2004 (which was the last time the LP even had a presidential ticket that I’d say was actually libertarian).

    Bill Weld does not even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Ron Paul, unless it is to point out how awful Bill Weld is compared to Ron Paul.

  33. Chuck Moulton

    Anthony Dlogos wrote:

    Personally, I expected him to bolt the day after the presidential election.

    I also expected him to bolt for the GOP… and lo and behold: he is. A lot of delegates were stupid enough to believe his conversion though. My biggest regret of the convention was not making wagers with many of those fools about Weld’s LP fidelity… it would have been quite a profitable venture.

    This is yet anoth data point driving home the lesson: stop nominating GOP re-treads.

  34. George Phillies

    Mentioning GOP retreads, what is to be said about our recent Presidential candidate?

  35. Steven R Linnabary

    I don’t know if anybody cares, but WAR was on Larry King tonight.

    I didn’t bother to listen to his bluster, but I couldn’t help noticing the tag under his name “2008 LP vpotus candidate”. It’s as if Root hasn’t accomplished anything the past ten years.

    PEACE

  36. paulie Post author

    Last year, William F. Weld stormed out of the Republican Party, registered as a Libertarian Party member, and joined its national ticket as a vice-presidential candidate, vowing his fidelity to his new political home.

    That was then.

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/10/05/bill-weld-libertarian-head-gop-fundraising-event/dVnZGd4wWaMKlnpzyBY8pN/story.html?s_campaign=bostonglobe%3Asocialflow%3Afacebook

    Team Weld’s response is http://www.thejacknews.com/politics/political-highlights/bill-weld-did-not-renounce-libertarianism-supporting-charlie-baker-cabinet-member/

  37. George Phillies

    Weld: A Republican sheep in Libertarian clothing. He’s supporting a Republican for Governor of Massachusetts, when the Massachusetts Libertarian Party has not even decided whether or not to run a candidates. JerkNews is simply a Republican front.

  38. Thane Eichenauer

    paulie, If I were legally allowed to vote in the 2018 US general election for the office of US Senator from Michigan it is rather likely that I would vote for James Meeks or any other Libertarian nominee for that office. I consider any Republican candidate (or Democratic candidate for that matter) that is dangled out for libertarian inclined voters as fishing for suckers regardless of their personal sincerity (since I can only judge by actions and I can’t judge their motivations).

    Kid Rock has a song that implies he that he might have antiwar tendencies. That same song and the resultant coverage say that he favors legalization of all drugs. I’d hold out for him actually and plainly stating his positions on these two positions.
    http://rare.us/rare-politics/is-kid-rock-conservative-libertarian-or-just-all-american/
    http://rare.us/entertainment-and-culture/rare-exclusive-kid-rocks-new-ode-to-america-is-the-peoples-anthem-youve-been-waiting-for/

  39. paulie Post author

    Kid Rock has a song that implies he that he might have antiwar tendencies.

    Yeah, and Trump had speeches and interviews that “implied he had antiwar tendencies” on the campaign trail. In office, not so much.

  40. Thane Eichenauer

    paulie,

    Donald Trump is a one of a kind anomaly. In my book he is a kin to the Mule in the Foundation Series. Kid Rock is his own person. I will judge him against his actual opponents not a one off. Kid Rock seems to be as consistent as any average human being.

    Again, I would likely vote Libertarian in that race unless Kid Rock solidified his public positions. He just might and then again he might not. He might not even pursue qualifying for the Republican primary for all you or I know.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_(Foundation)

    P.S. Though they are both master persuaders in their own realm.

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/147595892021/how-persuaders-see-the-world

    P.P.S. Perhaps it is time to pray that Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope to run for US House positions in Michigan?

    http://www.npr.org/2017/09/15/550724673/who-are-the-juggalos-and-why-are-they-marching-in-washington-d-c

  41. paulie Post author

    P.P.S. Perhaps it is time to pray that Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope to run for US House positions in Michigan?

    I double dare them….

  42. Thane Eichenauer

    While the choice in commenting systems is not mine to make I thought I would point out the Return of Kings website has selected a new system after the Disqus company decided that their web site didn’t deserve a good commenting system. While I am happy enough with flat comments I thought some folks might find it interesting to read about an alternative in progress (though no names are mentioned). Return of Kings often has at least two hundred comments per post.

    http://www.returnofkings.com/132495/update-on-rok-commenting-system

  43. paulie Post author

    Jonathan Makeley seems to post a lot of news in comments. Could he be signed up as a contributor who could author new posts here?

    I did sign him up. He says he can’t log in. I tried to explain it and we did not seem to be getting anywhere, but he is signed up.

  44. dL

    The latest Pew cluster analysis of political typologies. Important reading if you are interested in politics.

    From the linked piece:

    Thirty years ago, one of the largest groups in the political typology were the New Dealers, an older, mostly white, mostly Democratic group who were relatively conservative on social issues but favored activist government. There is no equivalent group in today’s political typology.

    That’s today’s GOP. Simply replace “relatively” w/ “extremely.”

    The piece’s analytics are not showing up in the political world. The so-called “market skeptics” component of the GOP, to the extent they even exist, are being routed. Jeff Flake, whom I imagine would be the GOP market skeptic prototype, declined today to seek re-election. An incumbent Senator, 6 times elected to the house, more or less just gave up w/o even a fight. And this Arizona, not Alabama. The GOP doesn’t have much of a topological terrain.

  45. Jonathan Makeley

    Yes, I was never able to log in, since I didn’t have anything that said what the password to log in was (don’t know if my email failed to be receive it or it placed in spam deleted it before I checked). I tried using the lost password to get a new password, but I never received an email from it to be able to create a new password. Tried using the lost password thing today, and it’s still not working for me. So unless their is some way to look up what my password for logging in is, or some way to fix it so the lost password function works for me, I’m stuck posting links in the open threads.

  46. George Phillies

    There are 48 Democrats in the Senate. The Republican coalition has 48 or 49 votes. We are now seeing a fair piece of what would actually happen if there were 3 or 4 Libertarian Senators, less the intelligent speeches, without the American people blaming us for Republican Leadership inaction. Umm, in action. No I had ti right the first time.

  47. dL

    No I had ti right the first time.

    What is it that you got right the first time? You merely linked to a poll piece with a footnote comment of “interesting.”

    Aside: According to the poll topology, I probably misidentified Flake as “market skeptic.” I suppose he would better fit as a “new era enterpriser.”

  48. paulie Post author

    Yes, I was never able to log in, since I didn’t have anything that said what the password to log in was (don’t know if my email failed to be receive it or it placed in spam deleted it before I checked). I tried using the lost password to get a new password, but I never received an email from it to be able to create a new password. Tried using the lost password thing today, and it’s still not working for me. So unless their is some way to look up what my password for logging in is, or some way to fix it so the lost password function works for me, I’m stuck posting links in the open threads.

    You are signed up as mrhistory956@aol.com … if lost password is not sending you a password link it should be in your trash or spam folders in your email. If it’s not there I don’t know what the problem is. Just checked the user list and you are still there. Sorry if you did not want me to post that address, I will erase it the next time I am here if you ask me to.

  49. paulie Post author

    We are now seeing a fair piece of what would actually happen if there were 3 or 4 Libertarian Senators

    How do you derive this? Which Republican senators do you think are secretly Libertarians? Rand Paul is the one that is most often cited, and I don’t think he is really a libertarian…neither did Ken Moellman from LPKY when he heard him speak, and Ken is not even a radical. Are there Republican senators who are more libertarian than Rand Paul?

  50. paulie Post author

    Sorry for the TL; DR but it hasn’t made its way to LNC list and I wanted to keep a public copy somewhere.

    travellingcircus@gmail.com
    1:21 PM (18 hours ago)

    to caryn.ann.harl., Independent, iprtwo, erin.adams, Whitney, Joshua, David, Daniel, Steven, Starchild, Paul, Ed
    I’m writing to LNC members who commented in this thread plus Whitney as my rep, IPR teamCCed for background, and Paul Stanton CCed. If any of the LNC members copied feel it’s worth sharing with the rest of LNC please do so. If not, my feelings won’t be hurt either.

    I’m not going to comment on what if anything LNC should do, just lay out the facts as I know them,

    Just before Paul Stanton resigned from LPF exec comm he submitted the following to that body (see links embedded in original):

    https://groups.google.com/forum/embed/#!topic/lpfec/7Ii6WazfTGo

    ——————————————————————————————————————-
    Greetings,

    Tonight’s motion 520 is mainly regarding threats and advocacy of violence against me and others, including a current US Senate candidate and former rules chair of the Libertarian Party of Miami-Dade. Additionally, he is a leader in a white supremacist group, the American Guard, a spin-off group of the violent anti-immigrant Sons of Odin – founded by Brien James (who also founded the Vinlanders – a Neo-Nazi group responsible for dozens of murders). The crossed cleavers in their shield is a reference to 19th century anti-immigrant gang leader, Bill the Butcher – an advocacy of violence against immigrants.

    Ryan Ramsey himself covers white nationalist “Rock Against Communism” bands like Screwdriver, and advocates for Operation Werewolf. He has called the LNC Chair Nick Sarwark “Nazi Nick,” citing Nick’s Jewish religion, then blaming people “disingenuous political leaders like Nick Sarwark” for the rise of the Nazi Party and ultimately the Holocaust.

    Here are some links which I will be referencing tonight at the meeting:

    https://www.facebook.com/libertarianheathen/photos/a.1959795147587414.1073741828.1954915414742054/2002228056677456/
    https://www.adl.org/blog/behind-the-american-guard-hardcore-white-supremacists
    http://libertarianheathen.com
    http://archive.is/t5jC7

    Bottom line, I am sick of seeing threats of violence against good Libertarians, and others disassociating in disgust over the intimidation tactics, dehumanization, and white supremacist rhetoric being employed by leaders within our party. If we allow one of our leaders to threaten our membership while having the ability to stop it, voters and donors have no reason to take our party seriously, as we clearly do not.

    The delegates very clearly gave us the ability to remove people from the EC for violation of the non-aggression pledge. Tonight we must decide if we will take that task seriously or not.

    In liberty,
    Paul Stanton

    Folowup message:

    Info about the 1930s German Nazi history book that Ryan Ramsey took his meme from:
    http://spartacus-educational.com/Jewish_Children.htm

    ———————————————————————————————

    Frankel: I can also attest to the threats coming from Ramsey, his former close associate Augustus Invictus and others in their circle.

    Back in April of this year, on a tip from IPR site owner Warren Redlich, I published http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/police-report-augustus-invictus-accused-of-domestic-violence-sexual-assault-kidnapping/ detailing that Mr. Invictus’ ex-fiancee made these very serious allegations against him. I confirmed with the police department in question that the referenced report had in fact been filed. I made no comment in the article about the truth or falsehood of the allegations. Any comments of opinions I made in the comment section on the same basis as any of our other readers and clearly marked as opinion. Notably, the complaintant and associate of hers also reported death threats at the time from Invictus and Ramsey, who have since then (very recently) had a falling out. Witness tampering was also one of the allegations.

    I also republished http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/libertarians-united-against-fascism-to-the-cowardly-collaborators-of-the-libertarian-party-of-florida-and-a-call-to-action-against-them/ (note that the original and its website were taken down so the images no longer appear; scroll down to see the section about Ryan Ramsey as the last part of the article).

    As a response, 1) Augustus Invictus wrote me and Warren Redlich, insinuating possible legal action and hinting at other forms of retaliation; he later wrote another former associate of his, Raquel Okyay, which was later forwarded to me, naming me as one of the people he plans to take some form of unspecified revenge on. 2) Ryan Ramsey published two articles filled with outright lies and slanderous fictions about me, Redlich, and others alleging some grand conspiracy . You can find them at libertarianheathen.com with a search for Frankel. Ramsey and his associates continually spread this crap on FB and probably elsewhere.

    https://libertarianheathen.com/?s=frankel

    The slanderous lies from Ramsey were tit for tat retaliation – he said so himself, and offered a reciprocal unpublishing – because I reported the news that his then buddy Augustus Invictus, one of the Charlottesville organizers, had been accused of a pattern of domestic violence, kidnapping and rape by his ex-fiancee. I was simply reporting the news, not taking a stance, except in the comments; and even there I was careful to separate what I knew to be fact from my opinion and what others alleged. Furthermore, I reposted accurate reporting about Ryan Ramsey and his associates previously published elsewhere. His response was to

    1) Publish lies about me, Warren Redlich and IPR, linked above

    2) Offer to take them down if we took down our own reporting

    3) Threaten to sic law enforcement on me for supposedly being a terrorist and threatening his wife, none of which is even remotely true. Specifically, he said he had contacted the Florida Department of Law Enforcement electronic crimes division and was planning to meet with the FBI and tell them that I am a terrorist (a preposterous lie) and that I threatened his then pregnant wife (another absurd fiction).

    4) His pal Invictus broached the possibility of suing us (but said he wasn’t doing that, at least at that time)

    5) Invictus later issued a non-specific threat against me and a few other people saying we will “get what is coming to us.” Among many other people he and his associates have threatened.

    Ryan Ramsey’s article is in fact full of attacks, slander and lies. Looking at just the headline alone: I am not editor in chief at IPR and in fact there is no such position. I am not a terrorist, and that is a slanderous claim. Moving beyond the headline I address numerous inaccurate statements, slanders, libel and downright lies in Ramsey’s article in a series of comments starting at http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/libertarians-united-against-fascism-write-open-letter-to-lnc-starchild-responds/#comment-1581189 and continuing over a couple of dozen comments.

    To take one egregious example, Ramsey continually asserts that I had something to do with killing a dog. I did not, and while he is not the first person to spread this lie it is nevertheless a lie and he is not repeating it as a statement by someone else but rather as something he knows to be true, unlike the statements about him by others that I have published. There are many similar falsehoods throughout the article which I addressed in IPR comments.

    Others who have been threatened by Invictus, Ramsey and friends include Tom Knapp

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1636145

    “To date, twice when the AI combination pity party / threat machine got cranked up and I was involved in direct back and forth, I escalated from Condition Yellow to Condition Orange. This involves, among other things, making my family aware of a possible threat, ensuring that at least one person in the household in addition to myself has a loaded firearm near to hand at all times, and paying special attention to street traffic in my neighborhood (which is very low traffic so anything unusual stands out, and I have a nearby neighbor who knows to call if anything looks suspicious as well). ”

    Frankel again) The email I was forwarded from Invictus says in part “Stanton, Tesky, Wyllie, Marchetti, and Frankel are all directly responsible for that, because the babysitter called the police based off the bullshit criminal allegations being pushed by those five. It was the ‘news’ story that caused the babysitter to call the police. Fourth and final: It never crossed my mind that Joe (Wendt) had anything to do with that, but if I find out that he was involved with Stanton or Tesky or Marchetti in pushing those criminal allegations, I will hang him with my own fucking hands. That entire situation is something so outrageous that I am not even discussing it. Each and every person who was involved or had knowledge of it will get what is coming to them.”

    And in fact, all of the people named, myself included, are among many others who have reported being threatened by Invictus, Ramsey and their circle of associates. Ramsey is still neck deep in it even now that Invictus has become a Republican.

    Ramsey is allegedly gloating about Stanton’s resignation in these facebook groups, among others:

    Kekistan
    The Right Way: No Cucks, Only Kek
    Republic of Kekistan
    @The Deplorables and Basement Dwellers for Trump
    Anti-SJW
    Anti-SJW Pinochet’s Beach Party

    The ex-fiancee of Invictus, Ms. Rice, and her friend Ms. Brown along with others they knew also reported being threatened and intimidated by Invictus, Ramsey et al.

  51. paulie Post author

    Heh…apparently we now have a maximum comment size. Didn’t know.. part II:

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/08/joe-wendt-for-us-senate-new-lp-of-florida-chair-undermines-libertarian-principles-in-favor-of-white-nationalists/

    ….
    Libertarian Party Candidate for U.S. Senate, Joe Wendt, condemns LPF Chair, Marcos Miralles, for pursuing a policy that promotes white nationalists within the Libertarian Party of Florida. “Mr. Miralles has appointed known white nationalists to leadership positions.”

    “I have been threatened with physical violence by white nationalist supporters of Miralles,” said Wendt. “

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/ see embedded links in original”

    We are losing good members, and the trust of the public, due to the elevation of leaders in extremist hate groups to our party leadership. We need a new approach. Local libertarian-leaning politicians and voters associate us with far-right extremists. As of yesterday, my county no longer has a full slate of candidates for the Florida House. One of the Libertarian candidates I drafted will now unfortunately be running NPA. Yesterday, we also lost our incoming Rules Committee chair. Previously, both our former gubernatorial nominee and our senatorial nominee (prior to me) have resigned their LPF memberships, among countless other Libertarian activists and volunteers. A member of my 2016 Senate campaign ended her participation with the party, because her employer forbids associations with members of extremist hate groups advocating for violence. A single friend (who ceased her participation after receiving death threats) has reported that no fewer than 30 of her acquaintances have withdrawn from Libertarian Party activism due to risks to themselves and their reputations.

    During my US Senate campaign, I never expected the situation that unfolded. I expected the personal attacks, but I never expected racist fantasies about my mother, posting of personal information about members of my family, or the violent threats and sexual harassment targeting my supporters and members of my campaign. Last month, after I introduced a motion (which was killed) to remove Florida’s member of the Libertarian Party Platform Committee for his racist statements, I was accused of wanting to kill all white people, in a “white genocide” conspiracy theory. And now today, there have been threats that the militant hate group the American Guardmay be waiting for me in the parking lot, or harassing county party meetings. We must have higher standards for our party leadership!
    Sadly, these are common intimidation tactics among white nationalists, and there are several other victims throughout Florida. This behavior cannot be accepted. We cannot continue to elevate these people. Libertarianism stands for maximum freedom for everyone, universally. We dishonor ourselves and our party by enabling liars with wildly divergent philosophies, who stand immediately adjacent to neo-Nazis, white nationalists, fascists,organized criminal syndicates, and domestic terrorists.

    From the comments:

    Starchild
    July 22, 2017 at 09:26
    Joe, do you know which individuals were shouting “white power” at the state convention? Is there video evidence of this? I would hope those individuals are identified and ostracized, and that other Libertarians will make clear to them that there is no room for such racism in the LP. That is not what we are about. If individuals who seek to act in such a manner leave the party, that is not a loss for us but a gain.

    Joe Wendt
    July 22, 2017 at 12:10
    Starchild,

    The individuals in question are supports of the current LPF Chair. Although Augustus Invictus, the most prominent of the White Nationalists, has left the party, unfortunately other less prominent White Nationalists are not [only -p] remaining active in the LPF, the Chair is actually giving them positions of authority.

    Screenshot of Ramsey threatening to knock Wendt’s teeth out and saying he may have an “accident”

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/received_10159060778305274.png

    paulie
    July 23, 2017 at 12:04
    Again, it’s not about Joe. Yes Ramsey threatened Joe, but he also threatened many other people, as has Invictus and their other buddies. There are numerous sources for that, including me. Yes, Ramsey has spread bullshit about me. I think he is still doing it although I haven’t checked lately. Did he know it to be false or did he just repeat what other people said? Well, he couldn’t have known it to be true since it was not true and he did not say “so and so says” he just repeated things as if they were facts and added new ones such as the bullshit about me being a terrorist and member of a terrorist groups and the bullshit about me making threats against his wife. And again, these are just examples just as the other examples in Stanton’s article are only examples.

    The real issue is that there is an ongoing pattern as reported by many different people of Invictus, Ramsey and their circle of friends issuing threats, spreading lies .. to and about many different people .. and maintaining ongoing close associations with multiple white supremacist groups and violent groups and individuals.

    ….

    Ramsey says “You were awful meek last night punk. Ill see you soon though and well see how mouthy you are” which is clearly physical intimidation. Joe is talking shit on the internet but Ramsey says he will not do it in person. Why not? Clearly due to threat of physical violence. Ramsey follows this up with “Id be more concerned with the teeth in your mouth at this point joe. Your dental plan good?” which in the context of his earlier statement is not exactly a very veiled threat. If he was genuinely concerned about Joe slipping and falling due to being drunk, which is laughable in the context of the conversation, he would not have made the threat so specific.

    And the larger context of course is that there have been many other threats, to many other people, myself as well as this publication (IPR) included.

    Joe Wendt
    July 23, 2017 at 13:55
    To Andy,

    I have contacted the police. Since it has not progressed beyond Facebook, they told me to block him and contact them again if he continues the harassing and threatening behavior. They will be called if he threatens me again.

    paulie
    July 23, 2017 at 14:19
    Also, if all of these if all of these violent threats have been made, why hasn’t anyone gone to jail? Has anyone even gotten a restraining order?
    Don’t be naive. Threats are not always made in a verifiable, provable form. I’ve received plenty of threats over the years, including death threats, and I have never felt the urge to go to the cops about it. What the fuck are they going to do? While they conduct their half assed investigation I may get killed or injured or whatever else. Or someone else around me.

    And one of the people that has been threatened by Invictus, Ramsey and friends made a good point. This person said that Ramsey has known contacts in law enforcement and that there are known ties between many members of law enforcement and white supremacist groups such as the ones Ramsey and Invictus have a lot of ties to. So reporting anything to law enforcement may actually be cutting your own throat if you get threatened by these assholes.

    FL: Augustus Invictus campaigns in front of white nationalist skinhead music banner http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/12/fl-augustus-invictus-campaigns-in-front-of-white-nationalist-skinhead-music-banner/ Note: Ramsey also frequently associates with that same banner to this day. “Rock Against Communism” may sound like something that libertarians would agree with, but in reality it’s a well-known neo-nazi front organization that no “former” white supremacist (as Ramsey claims to be) would have any association with.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism

    The Rock Against Communism movement originated in the United Kingdom in late 1978 with far right activists associated with the National Front (NF).[4] It was intended to counter the Rock Against Racism organisation.[4] The first RAC concert was in Leeds, England in 1978, featuring the Nazi punk bands The Dentists and The Ventz.[5] RAC held one concert in 1979 and another in spring 1983, which was headlined by Skrewdriver, a white power rock band led by Ian Stuart Donaldson. After that, RAC concerts were held more often. They were often headlined by Skrewdriver and featured other white power bands, such as Skullhead and No Remorse. In the mid-1980s, summer concerts were often held at the Suffolk home of Edgar Griffin, a Conservative Party activist[6] and father of Nick Griffin, an NF organiser who later became the national chair of the British National Party. By the late 1980s, the RAC name had given way to the White Noise Club (another NF-based group), and later Blood and Honour, which was set up by Donaldson when they fell out with the NF leadership.[4] As hardcore punk music became more popular in the 1990s and 2000s, many white power bands took on a more hardcore-influenced sound.

    Note that Ryan Ramsey continues to proudly wave the “Rock against communism” banner.

    Chuck Moulton: ‘LP conventions, avoid alt-right / white supremacist event speakers’ http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/05/chuck-moulton-lp-conventions-avoid-alt-right-white-supremacist-event-speakers/

  52. paulie Post author

    Part III

    More background:

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/alexandria-brown-response-to-ryan-ramsey-and-timeline-of-events/

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/update-on-rape-assault-kidnapping-and-witness-tampering-allegations-against-augustus-invictus/

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/update-on-augustus-invictus-criminal-allegations-and-retraction-of-censure-from-florida-lp-possible-disaffiliation-by-lnc-floated/

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/david-colborne-augustus-sol-invictus-is-not-welcome-in-my-state/

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/knppster-were-going-to-shut-it-down/

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/knapp-replace-lp-of-florida-exec-comm-and-bylaws/

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/08/paul-stanton-lp-florida-chair-marcos-miralles-must-resign/ :

    Marcos Miralles began his race for Chair of the LPF with the support of Augustus Sol Invictusand Ryan Ramsey, both leaders in white supremacist groups, including the American Guard. (The American Guard was one of the groups present in Charlottesville last weekend.) Invictus was also a featured speaker at the Charlottesville white supremacist rally. The support has not been one-sided. Last year, Marcos Miralles provided a town hall for Invictus (as part of a campaign to stir up drama during the primary), the pictures from which are still used by the Miami Herald to associate our party with Invictus. Additionally, he proudly displayed Ryan Ramsey’s endorsement on his website and appointed Ryan Ramsey to our Legislative Review Committee. There is no place for white supremacy in the Libertarian Party of Florida.

    Thankfully, there was a recent press release condemning the events in Charlottesville. Unfortunately, Marcos Miralles has refused to condemn the white supremacists within our party, or recant his previous support. Instead, he insists that he will “work with everybody” and has dismissed worries about white supremacists using our party to support their platform as “non sense,” despite the support of the previously-mentioned Libertarians, and despite the Libertarian Party of Florida’s representative to the Libertarian Party platform committee, Frank Caprio. Caprio regularly makes very racist comments, including quotes white supremacist Bob Whitaker. I physically cringed when I read Marcos write: “The Libertarian Party of Florida will forever remain the safest home for all of those that fight for civil rights.” As one of the Libertarian victims of violent threats and harassment (a Muslim mother of biracial children) stated, “The Libertarian Party was not a safe haven for me and many others like me. It should be, by principle. […] But that’s not the present day reality.” Sadly, she ended her participation with the party after concerns with the safety of her family. When she reached out to Miralles, she was ignored and blocked on social media.

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/05/knapp-dickey-cover-2017-libertarian-party-of-florida-convention/ http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/05/knapp-dickey-cover-2017-libertarian-party-of-florida-convention/

    There were people yelling white power. Larry Sharpe went on an alt-right vlog by Ryan Ramsey called the Mad American Network. That group was with Invictus in Harrisburg, PA and at least one member, Dave Martel, was seen sieg heiling there. Invictus chased someone out of a courtesy suite with threats of violence. Invictus was then pushing Paul Stanton trying to pick a fight. There was loud applause of his speech where he hijacked our convention for five minutes, then just bragged about it…

    …our gubernatorial candidate denied Stanton a mic for a privileged motion, so that he could procedurally kill a pro-immigration platform plank without letting it be read.

    Thomas Knapp lost an ad hoc election to the LP platform committee to a “constitutional conservative” who once told me, “anti-racist is code for anti-white,” Frank Caprio. He’s from the LP of Orange County (Orlando area, same as Invictus -p).

    Oh, and by the way – no pretend antifa protesters showed up, of course.

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/09/paul-frankel-why-libertarians-need-to-denounce-the-alt-right-and-white-nationalists-and-dont-need-to-worry-about-libertarian-socialists-and-antifa/

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/08/lsla-2017-physically-removed-so-to-speak-making-the-lp-inhospitable-to-the-alt-right-and-other-nazis/

    I’m sure that’s more than enough for now, but there’s plenty more. Feel free to email or call 205-534-1622 to discuss, and forward wherever or whenever you wish.

    Paul Frankel

  53. paulie Post author

    Sorry, some of the highlighting and blockquotes etc got taken out so you can either figure out from context when I am writing and when I am quoting, or if you care, ask and I will forward you the email.

  54. paulie Post author

    Final note from Paul Stanton:

    Paul Stanton
    4:23 PM (15 hours ago)

    to Thomas, iprtwo, caryn.ann.harl., Independent, erin.adams, Whitney, Joshua, David, Daniel, Ed, Steven, Starchild
    Much like our last state-wide candidate in Florida, and the one before him, and the one before him, I have resigned from the Libertarian Party Florida. Though I have now resigned, I am certain that as a member of the LPF EC, I did inform the LNC, twice, of a problem. Feel free to ask the current LPF Vice Chair Omar Recuero, the most recent former LPF Chair (and current LPF EC member) Char-lez Braden, the LPF Chair before him (and former gubernatorial candidate – receiving the most votes in LPF history) Adrian Wyllie, or current LPF US Senate candidate Joseph Wendt whether or not the LPF has a problem, and they will each tell you that we have a very serious problem – not to mention all the others who have disassociated over this ongoing issue.

    It’s easy to tell others to ignore threats and intimidation tactics when you, your family, your friends, your campaign volunteers, your fellow activists, aren’t the targets. People have simply lost their minds. I resigned. The fight against ethnonationalism has never been my issue. I simply became a victim of it. This is no longer my responsibility to fix.

    Paulie, thank you for including me and for all you do, but I don’t expect I will be responding any further. Please do not include me in future correspondence. Thank you to everyone who has sent me messages of support. Good luck folks.

    Paul Stanton

  55. Tony From Long Island

    dL

    An incumbent Senator, 6 times elected to the house, more or less just gave up w/o even a fight.

    No. He refused to pander to the extreme right GOP Trumpist primary voters by selling his soul.

    Flake / Weld 2020!!!!!!!!!!!

  56. paulie Post author

    Jeff Flake scores as a right/conservative. Details at http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Jeff_Flake.htm

    Weld actually does score as a very moderate libertarian, close to the border of both liberal/progressive and centrist, which may come as a surprise to Andy J and some others here. Details at http://www.ontheissues.org/Bill_Weld.htm

    Gary Johnson at 80/80 is in the middle of the libertarian quintile: http://www.ontheissues.org/gary_johnson.htm

    However, there would be precedent. http://www.ontheissues.org/Bob_Barr.htm scores on the border of moderate and conservative. The moderate part is surprising, as I always thought he was a rather extreme conservative, but in any case he does not score anywhere in or near the libertarian quintile.

    You can look thru the exact questions and answers yourself if you think any of them were not scored correctly.

  57. paulie Post author

    Flake / Weld 2020

    Good idea.

    For the Republican Party nomination? Well, I agree it would be better than what they have now.

  58. Anthony Dlugos

    i’d probably prefer Weld/Flake, actually. At least at this point.

    Also, I’d be assuming if Flake did defect to the LP, he’d move in a libertarian direction on his policy positions, freed from the GOP straitjacket at that point.

  59. paulie Post author

    I don’t think he is in any straitjacket. If he was he would just go along with Trumpism as well. There are lots of Never Trump conservatives, such as Jeff Flake. That does not make them libertarians.

  60. Anthony Dlugos

    “That does not make them libertarians.”

    Correct. Switching parties would, though. By definition.

    You, or anyone else, myself included, saying they are or not Libertarians has no bearing on the matter beyond your two cents and your vote for a nomination, if they chose to run for office under our party name.

  61. paulie Post author

    Switching parties did not make Barr or Root libertarians, even though it temporarily made them big L Libertarians. I believe you know what the difference in capitalization means and don’t need it explained to you. It’s true that I never voted for Barr, Root or Weld to be our nominees, and that I was at all those conventions, but my opinion would still be valid if I had not been at any conventions.

  62. Thane Eichenauer

    I was born in Glendale, Arizona in 1967 (at least that’s what my government birth certificate says, I am only 90% certain it is accurate).
    I have lived in Arizona for 46 of my 50 years. If Jeff Flake with access to all the ideas and principles of the libertarian movement and the ideals of freedom and all his access to money and training cannot persuade a majority of Republican party voters that he believes in and is advancing LIH-BER-TEE then I cannot be happier that he is retiring from the political realm.
    I hope that either Libertarian Doug Marks or Republican (and retired revenge pornographer) Craig Brittain take this election by storm.
    http://doug2018.com
    http://brittainforsenate.com

  63. Krzysztof Lesiak

    @paulie Post author
    October 25, 2017 at 07:01

    1) Raquel Okyay is, if I’m not mistaken, now serving as the campaign manager for Libertarian Joe Wendt’s 2018 US Senate campaign. I remember Wendt being involved in LPF intraparty disputes that I published with great frequency on IPR in 2013.

    2) Since Invictus is now running as a Republican, maybe Ryan Ramsey join the GOP as well – though he is going to face a lot of opposition too within the party. Don Black ( founder of Stormfront)’s son Derek Black was elected to the Palm Beach County GOP committee in August 2008, however the committee refused to seat him citing Derek Black not signing a loyalty oath.

    2, part II) However, given that the GOP has a president who is arguably a white nationalist of some kind, it would be a good idea for white nationalists to migrate to the GOP or alternatively the American Freedom Party. The Libertarian Party is not a good place for any white nationalist because white nationalists tend to be focused on group solidarity or what some would call a form of collectivism – advocating for the interests of a very specific group of people, whites – while Libertarians are focused on individualism. At the end of the day, no matter how you cut it, hardcore white nationalism and hardcore libertarianism are IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with each other (or “soft core versions of these political ideologies, whatever that would mean, for that matter).

  64. paulie Post author

    it would be a good idea for white nationalists to migrate to the GOP or alternatively the American Freedom Party. The Libertarian Party is not a good place for any white nationalist because white nationalists tend to be focused on group solidarity or what some would call a form of collectivism – advocating for the interests of a very specific group of people, whites – while Libertarians are focused on individualism.

    It’s good to know we can still agree on some things.

  65. robert capozzi

    RPII/Flake might be more interesting.

    Weld is pretty cool, but he’s getting on in years.

  66. paulie Post author

    but he’s getting on in years.

    Meh. William Floyd Weld (born July 31, 1945) Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. (born November 20, 1942) There are a lot of reasons I would not want Bill Weld to be our nominee but age is not one of them.

  67. Anthony Dlugos

    “I believe you know what the difference in capitalization means and don’t need it explained to you. ”

    I do.

    We as a party can either be what I like to call “New Testament” Libertarians, welcoming defectors, sins and all, and say, “go and sin no more,” even knowing they will sin again..or we can be pharisees, all law and no spirit, on a never-ending witch hunt to root out the less-than-dogmatic.

    The first and I think only thing I said to Governor Weld in Orlando was “welcome to the party.” That’s it.

    Luke 15:24,

    “For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.”

    Yes, that means that I am going to sometimes welcome guys like Barr and Root, and end up with egg on my face when they leave. But my acceptance of them is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of strength. Andy’s (e.g.) dark, dystopian witch hunt of a party is not a demonstration of message purity, it is a demonstration of a dark heart and a libertarianism void of the whole point of this endeavor. You shouldn’t follow in his footsteps. Its not a fun place to be.

    I know which party I prefer to be a part of.

  68. paulie Post author

    We as a party can either be what I like to call “New Testament” Libertarians, welcoming defectors, sins and all, and say, “go and sin no more,” even knowing they will sin again..or we can be pharisees, all law and no spirit, on a never-ending witch hunt to root out the less-than-dogmatic.

    I’m in favor of a happy medium between the two, which is why I made a last minute decision for Johnson over Wrights at the 2012 convention while voting for Wrights for VP.

    Yes, that means that I am going to sometimes welcome guys like Barr and Root, and end up with egg on my face when they leave. But my acceptance of them is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of strength.

    Let’s be real. You’ve already said you would be happy to take Mitt Romney even with his current issue stances. There may exist some politicians you would not welcome, but if you have such a line, I don’t know where or how you draw it. My past convention votes should tell you where I draw mine.

    Andy’s (e.g.) dark, dystopian witch hunt of a party is not a demonstration of message purity, it is a demonstration of a dark heart and a libertarianism void of the whole point of this endeavor. You shouldn’t follow in his footsteps. Its not a fun place to be.

    You know where my differences with Andy are. I’ve pointed them out here enough times that they should not have to be repeated.

  69. Anthony Dlugos

    “You’ve already said you would be happy to take Mitt Romney even with his current issue stances. ”

    Welcome him to the party? Sure. Nominate him? Maybe not. I’d have to hear what he had to say.

  70. paulie Post author

    My sense is Trump, Biden, and Weld will likely be too old in 2020.

    Mine is that they are each the most likely to get nominated, although it is very early and time will tell. This presumes Drumpf doesn’t blow us all up or cancel the election, which given who he is I would not consider a safe bet.

    I honestly don’t think they are too old at this point. People are living longer. In past years, candidates as old as Trump and Clinton were last year faced a lot of age related questions. I don’t recall much of that being raised last year about either of them. Bernard Sanders (born September 8, 1941) almost beat Clinton for the nomination – I think she would have lost if she had not cheated – and could well have beat Trump had he been nominated. Biden was talked about as a serious contender last year until he bowed out, and is being talked about that way again this time, as is Sanders.

  71. Anthony Dlugos

    by the way, I wasn’t suggesting you had anything in common with Andy’s troofer, extreme dogmatic version of libertarianism.

  72. paulie Post author

    My problem is with the far right ethnonationalism, and I don’t want it or for that matter even the more moderate conservative-libertarian fusionism taking over my party… but especially the Hoppean far right ethnonationalism. As I said earlier this morning to Chris, I agree that that crap can go to NSGOP and “A””F”P…really, anywhere but the LP.

  73. dL

    Flake / Weld 2020

    Good idea.

    Mitt Romney’s 3% solution to anesthetize the LP for easy peckwerwood takeover

  74. Tony From Long Island

    Two shiny badges!!

    maybe you can get Ron Johnson and Scott Walker . . . they are two shiny badgers.

  75. Anthony Dlugos

    You know what the problem is with some of you guys? Like Andy Stitzer, the titular hero of “The 40-Year Old Virgin,” you’re putting the p*ssy (principle) on a pedestal. You’re building it up into something way too big. Stop doing that.

    Principle is the hood rat of electoral politics. Treat it like that. Ignore the ones that are just more trouble than they are worth. Don’t worry, if they ever become worth banging, they’ll gladly ignore the fact that you previously told them to drop dead. That’s what club sluts do. Just lie to the principle and tell her you never said any such thing. Believe you me, it works every time.

  76. paulie Post author

    You know what the problem is with some of you guys? Like Andy Stitzer, the titular hero of “The 40-Year Old Virgin,” you’re putting the p*ssy (principle) on a pedestal.

    Whereas some of you are so slutty that …well, pussy, dick, what’s the diff? 🙂

    Lyrics
    Friday night I just got off work
    My boss, man, he’s such a jerk
    So after work I went to his house
    Ate his wife’s pussy and kicked his ass
    Eatin’ pussy and kickin’ ass
    Eatin’ pussy and kickin’ ass
    Eatin’ pussy and kickin’ ass
    Eatin’ pussy and kickin’ ass
    That’s what I do
    That pussy taste good
    Monday morning I got laid off
    So I celebrated with some alcohol
    Standing in the unemployment line
    I see this young girl’s bush and said, “it’s breakfast time”
    Security Guard said, “you can’t do that here”
    So I kicked him in the nuts before I drank a beer
    Girl at the counter said, “do you want a job?”
    And I said, “okay” and then I ate her pussy
    Eatin’ pussy and kickin’ ass
    Eatin’ pussy and kickin’ ass
    Eatin’ pussy and kickin’ ass
    Eatin’ pussy and kickin’ ass
    That’s what I do
    Pussy in the mornin’, sugar
    Pussy in the night, yeah
    I eat a lot of pussy
    And then I get into a fight
    Thursday night I was feeling pretty great
    I was walking past the honkeytonk on broadway
    I see this young girl, she’s smilin’ at me
    So I took her back to my place and I paid her fee
    Took off her skirt, I knew that somethin’ was wrong
    Where there’s supposed to be a pussy this girl had a dong
    I was bored and since I’d paid anyway
    I sucked his dick and then I kicked his ass
    Suckin’ dick and kickin’ ass
    Suckin’ dick and kickin’ ass
    Suckin’ dick and kickin’ ass
    Suckin’ dick and kickin’ ass
    Eatin’ pussy, suckin’ dick and kickin’ ass
    Eatin’ pussy, suckin’ dick and kickin’ ass
    Eatin’ pussy, suckin’ dick and kickin’ ass
    Eatin’ pussy, suckin’ dick and kickin’ ass
    God dammit fuckin’ play motherfucker
    Where’d everybody go? God dammit

  77. Anthony Dlugos

    “Whereas some of you are so slutty that …well, pussy, dick, what’s the diff?”

    haha. now you’re getting it!

    Thanks for that song. Fantastic! I haven’t laughed in a while, and that was great.

  78. robert capozzi

    If there were a D who was comfortable and appropriate for the top of the L ticket, I’d take a long, hard look. If L-ism had developed a politically viable bench over the past 50 years instead of playing NAPster word games, homegrown candidates would be far better.

    The Whigs (Rs) may be dissolving in front of our eyes.If so, the LP could be a home for sanity and a pro-liberty message. Or it can continue to be a non-metaphysical religion.

  79. Anthony Dlugos

    “If there were a D who was comfortable and appropriate for the top of the L ticket, I’d take a long, hard look. If L-ism had developed a politically viable bench over the past 50 years instead of playing NAPster word games, homegrown candidates would be far better.”

    correct.

  80. Jonathan Makeley

    Paulie,
    while I am unsure of why I cant receive emails from the forgot password function, I think might be possible that it may be a problem with AOL. Would it be possible to try signing me up under a different email of mine, to see if it works with it. If so, I can email you my other email address.

  81. paulie Post author

    while I am unsure of why I cant receive emails from the forgot password function, I think might be possible that it may be a problem with AOL. Would it be possible to try signing me up under a different email of mine, to see if it works with it. If so, I can email you my other email address.

    Sure, let’s give it a try.

  82. dL

    The 40-Year Old Virgin,” you’re putting the p*ssy (principle) on a pedestal.

    Principle is the hood rat of electoral politics. Treat it like that. Ignore the ones that are just more trouble than they are worth. Don’t worry, if they ever become worth banging, they’ll gladly ignore the fact that you previously told them to drop dead. That’s what club sluts do. Just lie to the principle and tell her you never said any such thing. Believe you me, it works every time.

    Were you a playa, Dugas? Personally, I wouldn’t recommend burning bridges w/ someone before you slept with them. A lead tongue will get you a permanent date w/ your right hand.

  83. Chuck Moulton

    Anthony Dlugos wrote (10/25/2017 at 7:41):

    i’d probably prefer Weld/Flake, actually. At least at this point.

    Also, I’d be assuming if Flake did defect to the LP, he’d move in a libertarian direction on his policy positions, freed from the GOP straitjacket at that point.

    I am generally a fan of Jeff Flake. He was executive director of the very libertarian leaning Goldwater Institute and made earmarks / government spending his signature issue. When he was first elected to U.S. Senate I was at an election night party at LPHQ and his race was the one in which I was most interested… an embedded reporter found that odd and included it in his story.

    It is much more likely a D/R who is out of office would seek our nomination than a D/R still in office. So the chances of Rand Paul or Justin Amash running LP are virtually nil.

    Flake leans a little too conservative for my liking, but I think Anthony is right that he could pivot more libertarian on many issues. If he seeks the LP nomination and pivots L, then I would support him.

    Regarding Paulie’s citation of Nolan chart locations for Flake and various past candidates: I believe this is a little misleading because it fails to take into account issue emphasis. For example, my problem with Gary Johnson on issues wasn’t so much that he deviated from Libertarian positions, but rather that those deviations were the primary focus of his campaign. The “Fair” Tax was his signature issue. In contrast, Flake’s signature issue has always been earmarks and runaway government spending. Therefore, I think it is more likely he could run a strong Libertarian campaign despite some deviations.

    In my opinion Flake ought to be aggressively recruited. It’s important to get ahead of this and make sure his campaign handlers make presenting a libertarian message a priority. I think running for president as a Libertarian makes a lot of sense for Flake: he already leans Libertarian and he wants a chance to take on Trump and his rhetoric head on.

  84. Anthony Dlugos

    “Were you a playa, Dugas?”

    Nah, not really. Always been too much of a romantic.

  85. Anthony Dlugos

    “It is much more likely a D/R who is out of office would seek our nomination than a D/R still in office. So the chances of Rand Paul or Justin Amash running LP are virtually nil.”

    I agree with that 100%.

  86. dL

    If he seeks the LP nomination and pivots L, then I would support him.

    How exactly does one pivot from being a staunch supporter of the Heimatschutz National security state?

  87. dL

    Nah, not really. Always been too much of a romantic.

    well, based on what you wrote, it was a rhetorical question, brah…

  88. robert capozzi

    cm,

    Great stuff on Flake.

    Might be even MORE powerful if he changed his affiliation while still in office! The first sitting L in the Senate would be a potentially massive blow for raising the profile of third-way lessarchism.

    Doesn’t Sarwark reside in AZ? He might be a good emissary to recruit Flake.

    I’ve seen Flake being interviewed numerous times. I would say he is significantly more articulate than GJ. Neither are lawyers, which is a net plus for pols, in that lawyers tend to speak in robotic legalese. Both have an amiable way about them, which I believe is in SHARP contrast to DJT’s coarse manner. While this amiability may not be satisfying for angrytarians, I think it’s potentially strong positioning and just a better way of being. Flake has always struck me as a thoughtful guy.

    Like GJ, JF takes positions I disagree with. I think he’s too hawkish, but it appears he realizes that Iraq was a mistake. He’s apparently very good on privacy issues. He’s pro-life, but apparently not an extremist on the issue.

    I note that his Senate speech yesterday is being hailed as one of the best ever in Senate history. What I heard of it was an A+.

    He was asked on Morning Joe if he might challenge Trump for 2020, and he said No, his name “Flake” was not a presidential name. He’s probably right about that, but then neither is Trump, and he IS (somehow) president.

    A Shiny Badger vs a guy who wants to abolish the federal government?

    Not a close call.

  89. robert capozzi

    pf,

    So do I take it that you can’t imagine supporting Flake 2020 if he were to:

    1) Changes affiliation from R to L in say Jan. 2018, becoming the first L Senator
    2) Evolves several of his positions toward a generally across-the-board lessarchist
    3) Decides to seek the L nomination

    vs. noted NAPster, Cantwell pal, and full-throated government abolitionist Kokesh?

    Really?

  90. paulie Post author

    A) Why would you assume no one else will be running? I expect a multitude of candidates and will compare them on multiple criteria over a period of time.

    B) Details please. Exactly which positions does Flake change and which ones doesn’t he change in this hypothetical scenario?

    C) Is Kokesh still defending Cantwell?

  91. robert capozzi

    pf,

    a) I’m asking you to play the thought experiment Flake v Kokesh.

    b) I’m asking you to imagine that Flake becomes, let’s say, roughly equivalent to GJ on his positions. Let’s call this on the edge of the L quadrant. GJ was coming from a more centrist place and JF was coming from a more conservative place, but they both land on the edge.

    c) Assume that Kokesh no longer defends Cantwell, but both remain extremist NAPsters of significantly different flavors (when viewed from an intra-LM perspective). But his recent associations with Cantwell are documented.

    Given the choice between the two, who do you petition for with more enthusiasm? How do you vote in convention?

  92. paulie Post author

    Well, in 2012 I voted for Johnson over Wrights in convention. In 2016 I voted for Perry over Johnson. So it comes down to a lot of specifics having to do with what is and isn’t said in the course of the campaign. I don’t always reject either the more moderate or the more extreme choice, there are a lot of factors to balance.

  93. robert capozzi

    pf,

    Thanks for your thoughtful answer. I understand.

    I would not waste my time voting for Perry or Kokesh, I might vote L if the candidate didn’t have a shiny badge, but I would not vote for an extremist. It would be nominating behavior I would not want to encourage.

  94. Tony from Long Island

    Paulie:

    In 2016 I voted for Perry over Johnson.

    Really? Darryl Perry? Really Paulie? And you did this after hearing what the man had to say?

  95. paulie Post author

    In 2012 I agreed with what Wrights had to say more than Johnson, but I believed there were enough balancing factors that I wanted Johnson in the top spot on the ticket. Johnson got worse, not better as I hoped, in 2016. I decided to go in the other direction as a result.

  96. Thane Eichenauer

    Re: Chuck Moulton comment at October 25, 2017 at 15:31

    Oh Chuck Moulton, Chuck Moulton, Chuck Moulton, Chuck Moulton. Oh Chuck Moulton!!

    Has Jeff Flake given you a cup of Kool-Aid labelled “limited government” flavor at a freedom rave telling you that you are really drinking 80 proof liberty whiskey? At best Jeff Flake offers near beer for those that are easily intoxicated by the mere whisper of the term limited government.

    Jeff Flake has been reported to have said that he REGRETS voting against the TARP bailout. Jeff Flake voted in favor of the most recent budget bill instead of against it.

    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2017/s245

    From my vantage point here in Arizona Jeff Flake has been steadily drained of his vital limited government energy ever since he last was employed by the Goldwater Institute (if he even understood what limited government was back then). His efforts to reduce government spending amount to taking a picture of the black cancerous leaves of the tree of big bad government then captioning it “Look at this horrible government growth!” before emailing it to the easily suckered.

    I am willing to consider the option that I am being a smidge too harsh on the esteemed junior US Senator from Arizona.

    Chuck Moultin, If I am overlooking a number of positive attributes please go to the following link and add a comment listing them. Flake deserves a fair shake much though I don’t think he is any shining example of limited government Republican.

    http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/10/knapp-flaky-whiggy/#comment-1687602

  97. Tony From Long island

    Paulie

    I decided to go in the other direction as a result.

    There really wasn’t much further you could go in that direction, I guess. That cliff you were looking over must have been really steep! 🙂

  98. dL

    The Libertarian Candidate for NYC Mayor once tried to hijack a plane . . . yeah!! No shiny badge for him!

    Yep…shiny badgers prefer their criminals to be of the war variety.

  99. Anthony Dlugos

    “Yep…shiny badgers prefer their criminals to be of the war variety.”

    So do the voters. “protecting the country” is within their frame of reference for an elected official. Paranoid schizophrenics who hijack airplanes with a handgun are not. That makes the potentially erstwhile “war criminal” a better choice to engineer a more humble foreign policy over the schizophrenic or catastrophically unqualified who talks a good game.

  100. paulie Post author

    There really wasn’t much further you could go in that direction, I guess. That cliff you were looking over must have been really steep!

    I don’t know about any cliff. Perry was closest to me on issues. He could have used image polishing and there wasn’t much that could be done about his resume at that point. Johnson had just veered too far off what I could take, especially with Weld, among a number of other things. There were issues I had with all the other campaigns. I discussed them in enough detail at the time, I thought.

  101. Andy

    “Anthony Dlugos
    October 26, 2017 at 09:09
    ‘Yep…shiny badgers prefer their criminals to be of the war variety’

    So do the voters. ‘protecting the country’ is within their frame of reference for an elected official.”

    Most of the people who vote regularly for Democrats and Republicans will never vote for Libertarians, no matter what the Libertarian Party does, including nominating candidates like Bob Barr and Gary Johnson.

    Trying to appease people who vote for Democrats and Republicans is not a winning strategy for the Libertarian Party. The biggest potential support base for the Libertarian Party is with independents and non-voters. I do think that Libertarians can pick up a few Democrat and Republican voters, as in the one’s who are holding their nose and voting for whom they perceive to be the lesser of two evils, but the way to get these people is not by running candidates who appear to be just like Democrats and Republicans. Libertarians bending over backwards to attempt to appeal to people who support the mainstream political establishment is a losing strategy.

  102. Andy

    “paulie Post author
    October 26, 2017 at 09:15
    ‘There really wasn’t much further you could go in that direction, I guess. That cliff you were looking over must have been really steep!’

    I don’t know about any cliff. Perry was closest to me on issues. He could have used image polishing and there wasn’t much that could be done about his resume at that point.”

    Perry had little help with his campaign. If more people who supported Perry had actually gotten involved and done something, he would have had a better campaign.

    Gary Johnson had a lot more money, experience in running for office, and a professional campaign staff, and he still came off looking like an ass on national television.

    “Johnson had just veered too far off what I could take, especially with Weld, among a number of other things. There were issues I had with all the other campaigns. I discussed them in enough detail at the time, I thought.”

    I was a Gary Johnson skeptic from day one. A lot of people doubted me back then, but now it should be apparent to all that I was correct.

  103. Andy

    That is from the same FBI that confiscated surveillance footage from gas stations, hotels, traffic cameras, etc…, from around the Pentagon on 9/11, and has never released the footage. The Pentagon itself probably has more video cameras around it than any building in the world, yet the only footage we have ever seen of a supposedly hijacked passenger jet supposedly hitting the building, which was released years after the fact, Is a very short clip which does not clearly show a passenger jet hitting the building.

    This is the same FBI that has been caught multiple times running g COINTELPRO operations, and even recruiting pasties for terror plots.

    Five years after the alleged Sandy Hook shooting is a long time to fake some supposed “evidence,” and I have read that their new report is heavily redacted.

  104. Jill Pyeatt

    LOL, Wayne Root is on ABC talking about his tweets the night of the La Vegas shootings.

    Shockingly, he is more correct than the documentary so far.

  105. paulie Post author

    Welcome on board! I’ve pledged to post as many articles as everyone else who posts here does, so I hope I get a run for my time 🙂

    I’ve added Jonathan to the about page. Would you like to be added to our writers/editors email/google group, and if so, with the gmail address or the aol address?

  106. paulie Post author

    Still riding that one legged pony? I think it’s been years since I gave you the links about how Mogadishu is not part of the “anarchist utopia” and that what we call Somalia is actually more like three different countries, regardless of whoever calls themselves a government – which, naturally, does exist in Mogadishu.

  107. dL

    Further developments in the anarchist utopia.

    Of course, fake wrestling aficionados like Bob don’t actually follow the news. The US has been conducting an extensive shadow war in Somalia for some time. Unfortunately, Tucker Carlson, aka, “The Butthurt Mamba,” only feeds Bob controlled news and fake outrage.

    [In Somalia, US escalates a Shadow War]
    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/16/world/africa/obama-somalia-secret-war.html

    [SOMALIA TRUCK BOMB MAY HAVE BEEN ‘REVENGE ATTACK’ FOR U.S. RAID THAT KILLED CIVILIANS]
    http://www.newsweek.com/somalia-bombing-us-raid-al-shabab-687422

  108. paulie Post author

    Don’t bother with actual facts, Robert needs to tilt at windmills and fight the spectre of utopian anarchism because really that’s our big problem in the world today.

  109. robert capozzi

    Facts can be useful, PF. dL’s facts seem way beside the point.

    For the record, I don’t consider utopian anarchism a big problem at all. It’s just an excellent way to distract liberty-lovers. On the world stage, it would rank somewhere around 3,000 on the list of worldly dysfunctions.

  110. paulie Post author

    Only on IPR, utopian anarchism is a big problem? Robert is about the only one who ever brings it up. Most of the rest of us are too busy talking about real world or at least medium term political change almost all of the time, even those of us theoretically committed to peaceful anarchy as an eventual goal.

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