Adam Kokesh arrested in Texas

80 thoughts on “Adam Kokesh arrested in Texas

  1. Andy

    Adam Kokesh was on his way to the North American Bitcoin Conference in Miami, Florida, when this incident happened. He had apparently officially declared that he is seeking the Libertarian Party’s presidential nomination by filing papers with the Federal Election Commission not long before this arrest happened.

    I have to wonder if this arrest was politically motivated. The first time he got pulled over was because the police thought that he did not have a proper license plate. He was actually driving with a temporary tag, as this vehicle had been recently purchased, and he was in the process of getting a regular license plate. The police let him go, and then within about an hour, he got pulled over again, allegedly for traveling at 74 miles per hour in a 65 zone. I have heard from cops before that they typically do not pull people over for speeding unless they are going more than 10 miles per hour over the posted speed limit. Bringing out the drug sniffing dog really seemed unnecessary, since he was pulled over for speeding, and since they had no evidence that he was dealing drugs, and I am skeptical that the drug sniffing dog really even detected any drugs. Those dogs can be triggered by their police handlers, and it is possible that the cop lied about the dog detecting drugs. Even if Adam really did have marijuana, he likely would have had a small amount, and I seriously doubt that a dog standing outside of a Adam’s big motorhome on a windy day on the side of a freeway would have really detected it inside the motorhome.

    I suspect that one of two things happened:

    a) those cops pulled up his file, saw that he was a libertarian political rabble-rouser, who, among other things, has been arrested for protesting the marijuana laws (e got arrested at a marijuana legalization event called Smoke Down Prohibition in Philadelphia a few years ago), so they decided to mess him him;

    or,

    b) those cops entered his name into a database, and they got contacted by some federal government agency, perhaps the Department of Homeland Security, or the FBI, or the CIA, or the NSA, or whatever, and they gave an order for the cops to mess with him, or they suggested that the cops mess with him (If anyone thinks that this is far-fetched, think again. When Adam got arrested in front of the White House last year while protesting the missile attack against Syria, federal agents admitted that they have been monitoring him for a long time, and that they have people keeping tabs on his YouTube channel. It is a known fact that government agencies spy on political activists, and that they infiltrate and sabotage political groups, and that they troll online (I have good reason to suspect that this has happened right here on IPR)).

    Whatever the case may be, Adam is being held in jail in Texas right now for a victimless crime, and some, or maybe even all, of the charges against him may be completely false.

    I hope that he gets out of jail soon.

    This is yet another reason why Libertarians should put a greater focus on electing Libertarians to the office of Sheriff, and why Libertarians should get more active in promoting jury nullification of victimless crimes.

  2. Chuck Moulton

    Andy wrote:

    I have to wonder if this arrest was politically motivated.

    It wasn’t.

    Glad I could help answer that tin foil hat batshit crazy conspiracy theory before it spreads further.

  3. Chuck Moulton

    In other news: Kokesh thinks it is embarassing for our national chair to attend a documentary movie screening about Gary Johnson, but not embarassing for a candidate for the LP nomination to be in jail.

  4. Anthony Dlugos

    “I hope that he gets out of jail soon.”

    lol. This guy has got everything bass ackwards. He’s supposed to be getting arrested AFTER his term as President.

  5. Gina

    Kokesh is making himself less and less appealing as a candidate for the nomination or anything else all the time.

  6. paulie

    In other news: Kokesh thinks it is embarassing for our national chair to attend a documentary movie screening about Gary Johnson, but not embarassing for a candidate for the LP nomination to be in jail.

    As I understand it, Kokesh sniping at Sarwark is payback because someone who is an employee or contractor of LPHQ made negative remarks about Kokesh and/or his run for president and was not disciplined for that.

    Is that correct?

  7. Andy

    He is in jail for a victimless crime, one that may be partially, or even completely, trumped up. There are millions of people out there who would agree that this arrest is bullshit, and I do not believe that this is something that would dissuade a lot of people from voting for him. Anyone who would not vote for him because of this is not likely to vote for any Libertarian candidate for anything.

  8. Gina

    It’s one thing to believe drugs should be legal, and quite another to support someone who keeps getting arrested for drugs for President. I think alcohol should remain legal too, but if someone has multiple arrests for public intoxication that makes them a less attractive candidate for any kind of public office. As for Kokesh the reasons he is looking less and less supportable include his friendliness to the “paleo” ethno-nationalist right, his drama stirring over Sarwark, Vohra et al, and the whole BDSM slave contract/multiple staffers quitting thing. There are probably other things I forgot too.

  9. Andy

    How do you know that this arrest was not politically motivated, Chuck? Adam has been arrested for political activism/protesting several times, and like I said above, when he got arrested last year while protesting in front of the White House, the police knew who he waa before they checked his ID, and the after he was in custody, the feds admitted that they have people monitoring him.

    It is also very unusual for the police to pull somebody over twice in the span of an hour, and it is not normal for the police to pull somebody over for driving 9 miles per hour over the speed limit, especially on a highway that goes through a rural part of Texas.

    I do not know for sure as to whether or not this arrest was politically motivated, and neither do you. I was speculating based on facts.

  10. Andy

    Also, the police do not routinely bring out drug sniffing dogs during routine traffic stops for speeding (and like I said above, cops do not typically pull people over for driving 9 mph over the speed limit, especially on highways in rural areas).

  11. Chuck Moulton

    I’ve been pulled over for going 1 mile above the speed limit. I’ve heard police say they generally don’t pull people over for going less than 7 miles above the speed limit and have heard other police say it varies a lot from state to state.

    But no police anywhere care that Kokesh is running for president.

  12. Andy

    Adam has not been arrested for drugs that many times (at least from what I am aware), and I am not even sure the times he was arrested that it waa actually drugs that really sparked the arrests.

    When the police raided his home in northern Virginia it was because he made a video of himself loading a shotgun in Washington DC while talking about gun rights, and he posted that video to YouTube. The police found some marijuana in his home during the raid, but this was not what caused them to conduct the raid.

    When he got arrested in Philadelphia it was At a marijuana legalization rally where lots of people were openly smoking marijuana, and most of those people did not get arrested. I don’t think that Adam actually smoked marijuana at that event. I have not watched that video in awhile, but I recall that he was on a microphone giving an anti-drug war speech when the police grabbed him. He may have been holding a joint, but I do not think that he actually smoked it if he was (I would have to watch the video again to verify).

    This arrest in Texas came after what I would call am illegal search of his vehicle after a traffic stop for driving 9 miles over the speed limit on a highway in a rural area. It is not as though he was driving wrecklessly while high on drugs.

  13. George Phillies

    Andy’s claim that speeding is a victimless crime is also crazy, namely it interferes with everyone else’s ability to use the road safely. If I am driving along at the se=peed limit, and some idiot is passing me at 10 mph over, my ability to make an emergency swerve is significantly reduced. Alternatively, the rear end of my car is endangered.

  14. Mark

    George Phillies makes a good point. The enforcement of the speeding laws is far, far too lenient. A lot of people forget that the “speed limit” is an upper speed limit, and that there is also a lower speed limit on interstate highways. Sensible drivers know to keep their speeds around the halfway point between those upper and lower limits. It is also happens to be optimal for gas mileage, as well as safety. Going ten miles over the limit merits, at the very least, a public whipping.

  15. Chuck Moulton

    I’m no fan of speed limits. They are invariably way too low. Research indicates safety is maximized when people are going the same speed, not when they are going low speeds.

    But being opposed to low speed limits in principle doesn’t mean I believe anyone pulled over for speeding is a political prisoner targeted by a government conspiracy.

  16. dL

    In other news: Kokesh thinks it is embarassing for our national chair to attend a documentary movie screening about Gary Johnson, but not embarassing for a candidate for the LP nomination to be in jail.

    The jail part is not the problem. But for Kokesh, it is getting difficult to ascertain the line that is crossed between civil disobedience and crass fundraising opportunities.

    The problem for Kokesh is that his account is retreating that the HoppeBot accusation that the LP has a child pedophilia epidemic, which is untrue. He continues to demonstrate questionable associations with unsavory wrecker elements.

  17. Mark

    “I’m no fan of speed limits. They are invariably way too low. Research indicates safety is maximized when people are going the same speed, not when they are going low speeds.”

    It’s maximized when everyone is going the same speed, which is significantly lower than our scofflaw population tends to drive. If everyone drove at 200 MPH, safety would not be maximized. Safety would be maximized if we kept the 55 MPH national speed limit and enforced it vigorously with public whipping and stockades for anyone driving even a fractional of a mile over the upper speed limit.

    I do believe there is also merit in having an age beyond which drivers licenses are no longer valid, just as there is an age before which they may not be issued.

  18. Chuck Moulton

    No. The amount of safety gained from 55 compared with 65 or 75 is minimal. In contrast, government never accounts for the efficiency gains of people getting where they want to go faster. Time is valuable.

    On most roads people go over 10 miles above the speed limit without sacrificing any safety.

  19. Anthony Dlugos

    “The jail part is not the problem. But for Kokesh, it is getting difficult to ascertain the line that is crossed between civil disobedience and crass fundraising opportunities.”

    Well, the jail is a problem, but not nearly the 2nd problem you point out.

    Then again, that’s not even as big a problem as the batsh*t insane idea that he is going to win the presidency and “abolish” a 4,000,000 employee, multi-trillion dollar organization on Day One. Even if that is just another crass fundraising idea, it’s nuts.

    At least target an audience for your snake oil that has money to lose.

  20. Don Wills

    Adam Kokesh is yet another embarrassment of the LP. Yes, there are some normal people in the LP, but far too many grandstanding idiots like Kokesh. That said, the LP would still be irrelevant if all members were as normal as Chuck or George.

    IMO, Kokesh’s arrest has nothing whatsoever to do with him calling himself a Libertarian.

    I do suspect something nefarious but it has nothing to do with politics. I suspect the actual reason is highway robbery.

    So they stopped Kokesh, ran his info, saw his drug arrests and let him go. Hah! They followed him or radioed ahead and waited for him to be going 74 in a 65 zone to stop him again, then just happened to have the drug dogs nearby and were hoping for a big haul for the local cops in the form of ‘civil asset forfeiture’, more correctly called ‘highway robbery’. It happens all the time in rural areas like Texas.

    And FWIW, Texas has some of the most reasonable speed limits in the country. They even have a good sized section of I-10 with a speed limit of 85 MPH.

    Here’s info about a recent case in Wyoming – http://ij.org/press-release/innocent-musicians-life-savings-seized-law-enforcement/

  21. dL

    Then again, that’s not even as big a problem as the batsh*t insane idea that he is going to win the presidency and “abolish” a 4,000,000 employee, multi-trillion dollar organization on Day One. Even if that is just another crass fundraising idea, it’s nuts.

    I don’t think anyone suffers the delusion that Kokesh is going to be elected POTUS…

  22. dL

    I do suspect something nefarious but it has nothing to do with politics. I suspect the actual reason is highway robbery.

    I suspect you are probably right…

  23. Frank Neumann

    While I applaud the stance on individual rights and engaging the police in a positive manner I may get attacked for this but I witnessed a distinct lack of personal responsibility on the part of Adam and that being proof of insurance and proper paperwork and I may be mistaken but with the proper documents and consistent response about who exactly owns the RV I doubt this results in an arrest and I am No fan of the police or the state of Texas Just my personal observation of the Video

  24. dL

    When self-driving cars become the norm — or the exclusive users of some roads — I hope nonsense low speed limits will be significantly raised.

    driverless car is a bit of a misnomer…that’s the easy part. it’s driverless roads that are going to be the infrastructure holdup/bottleneck. For security reasons, you cannot treat the car as just another device in the internet of things. Not everything should be on the internet. Because of the infrastructure issue, I would think flying cars would come before road controlled driverless ones…

  25. Andy

    I do not know if the police give a shit about him running for President or not. I do know that the police have databases that have files on people, and I do know that they would have a file on Adam that says that he is a political activist, and that he has been arrested several times, and that he has been charged with marijuana “offenses” in some 9f those arrests (see above).

    I also know that local law enforcement communicates with federal agencies like the DHS, FBI, etc…. I also know that federal agencies do spy on and/or harass and/or sabotage political activists and activists groups.

    So contrary to what Chuck Moulton says, it is not “crazy” to speculate that this may have been politically motivated.

  26. Andy

    “Don Wills
    January 23, 2018 at 22:52
    Adam Kokesh is yet another embarrassment of the LP. Yes, there are some normal people in the LP, but far too many grandstanding idiots like Kokesh. That said, the LP would still be irrelevant if all members were as normal as Chuck or George.

    IMO, Kokesh’s arrest has nothing whatsoever to do with him calling himself a Libertarian.

    I do suspect something nefarious but it has nothing to do with politics. I suspect the actual reason is highway robbery.

    So they stopped Kokesh, ran his info, saw his drug arrests and let him go. Hah! They followed him or radioed ahead and waited for him to be going 74 in a 65 zone to stop him again, then just happened to have the drug dogs nearby and were hoping for a big haul for the local cops in the form of ‘civil asset forfeiture’, more correctly called ‘highway robbery’. It happens all the time in rural areas like Texas.”

    I disagree that Adam Kokesh is an embarrassment to the Libertarian Party.

    I do agree with what Don said above about the possible motivation for arresting him, which ties into part of what I said above. Law enforcement ran his name through their database the first time they pulled him over. The fact that he has been arrested several times (all of them victimless crimes involving political activism/protesting), and that marijuana has been involved in some of those arrests. So like Don said, law enforcement could have gotten greedy as they thought that if they were able to pull him over again, they might get the opportunity to arrest him for marijuana, and they might get to seize some of his assets, and/or fine him in the process.

    “And FWIW, Texas has some of the most reasonable speed limits in the country. They even have a good sized section of I-10 with a speed limit of 85 MPH.”

    This is true. I have driven though Texas several times, and I was in fact just in Texas not very long ago. It is not normal for the police in Texas to pull people over for speeding on a stretch of highway that is in a rural area when the driver is only going 9 miles over the speed limit.

    This was very fishy, and given the facts, it is perfectly reasonable to speculate that this could have been motivated by politics, or greed, or both.

  27. Andy

    Anthony Dlugos said: “Then again, that’s not even as big a problem as the batsh*t insane idea that he is going to win the presidency and “abolish” a 4,000,000 employee, multi-trillion dollar organization on Day One. Even if that is just another crass fundraising idea, it’s nuts.

    At least target an audience for your snake oil that has money to lose.”

    Adam Kokesh does not think that he’s going to get elected President in 2020 if he wins the Libertarian Party’s presidential nomination. His goal is to build momentum for his platform to initiate a systematic shut down of the federal government. He thinks that it will at least 3 or 4 presidential elections for the idea to have a realistic chance of being successful. He said that he is willing to keep running for President until the idea catches on, or he will pass the baton onto somebody else if somebody who he thinks is a better candidate than he is emerges who is willing to run on the same platform.

    This is a bold platform, and in a lot of ways it is more radical than the platforms of Harry Browne, Michael Badnarik, and Ron Paul.

    Would it be good for the Libertarian Party to nominate Adam Kokesh for President in 2020? I don’t know who else is going to run for the nomination in 2020, and I don’t know what else is going to happen between now and then, so I’d say that it is too early to tell.

    I will say that I’d rather have Adam Kokesh as a presidential candidate for the Libertarian Party than anyone who has been on the Libertarian Party’s presidential ticket for the last three presidential elections, and I’d prefer Kokesh over anyone who has even run for the nomination the last three times (I was very unhappy about the last three LP presidential tickets, and I was not even overly thrilled with the runners up at the last three LP presidential nominating conventions).

    I say this in spite of the fact that I think that Adam lost that recent debate he had against Stefan Molyneux.

  28. Andy

    “He thinks that it will at least 3 or 4 presidential elections”

    Should read, “He thinks it will take at least 3 or 4 presidential elections…”

  29. Andy

    “George Phillies
    January 23, 2018 at 20:59
    Andy’s claim that speeding is a victimless crime is also crazy, namely it interferes with everyone else’s ability to use the road safely. If I am driving along at the se=peed limit, and some idiot is passing me at 10 mph over, my ability to make an emergency swerve is significantly reduced. Alternatively, the rear end of my car is endangered.”

    He was only going 0 miles per hour over the speed limit. I have talked to cops who have told me that they typically do not pull people over for speeding unless they are going more than 10 miles over the speed limit (at least on a highway). I don’t know if you have ever driven in Texas, or any other large western state, but it is not uncommon for people to drive on highways at more than the 74 miles per hour that Adam Kokeh is alleged to have been driving.

    Also, Adam was not arrested for speeding. He was arrested for possession of marijuana. This marijuana was allegedly found in what I’d say was an illegal search. Possession of marijuana is a victimless crime.

  30. Anthony Dlugos

    “He thinks that it will at least 3 or 4 presidential elections for the idea to have a realistic chance of being successful.”

    In 12-16 years the federal government is going to be abolished.

    Wow. He really is deluded. No more psychotropics for him.

  31. DJ

    I admire Kokesh. That and a buck fifty will get him a cup of coffee somewhere.

    I detest cops. They have turned into thought police rendering them supporters/enforcers of pre-emptive militarist action(s) creating havoc in a civilian setting. When havoc is created, chaos ensues and catastrophe is inevitable- it can only be minimized, not avoided.

    Was it political? That’s irrelevant. He was arrested. No excuse is good enough. Any “reason” given is just an excuse to exercise an authority taken, not given. Arresting, and giving citations is typically a revenue generating effort. In any other industry it would be called job justification.

  32. Andyt

    “Anthony Dlugos
    January 24, 2018 at 07:55
    ‘He thinks that it will at least 3 or 4 presidential elections for the idea to have a realistic chance of being successful.’

    In 12-16 years the federal government is going to be abolished.

    Wow. He really is deluded. No more psychotropics for him.”

    Notice that I said above that he thinks that it would take “at least 3 to 4 presidential elections” for his systematic shutdown of the federal government plan to have a chance at being implemented. This means that he recognizes that it may take longer than that.

    He thinks that with the flow of information on the internet, and the growth of cryptocurreny, that it will lead to a paradigm shift in the way that a lot of people view government, and that more and more people will move into the libertarian/voluntaryist camp, and this will at some point achieve critical mass, and then it will become more realistic a implement the shut down the federal government plan that he is proposing. He also thinks that he can mass market the idea to people who don’t accept libertarianism by promoting decentralization, as in if people want a government that does _________________ (fill in the blank), they can keep it at the state or local level. He favors abolishing state and local governments as well, but he sees smaller units of government as being less damaging than the current federal government, and he thinks that people who want smaller government or no government can move out of areas where people want bigger government and form their own enclaves in parts of the present day USA with like minded people.

    Will his plan work at some point down the road? I don’t know. Is he going to be the best available candidate for the Libertarian Party’s presidential nomination in 2020? I don’t know this either, as I’d have to see who else enters the race and what all else happens between now and then.

    I think that one thing working in Kokesh’s favor, and in the favor of libertarianism in general, is the growth of cryptocurrencies. A lot of people are getting rich off of cryptocurrency, and a good number of these people are libertarian or libertarian leaning. A new class of millionaires and billionaires is starting to emerge from the cryptocurrency world, and if a good number of these people are libertarian, or libertarian leaning, it could mean a lot more potential donors for libertarian campaigns. This could be what finally gives libertarians the campaign capital necessary to compete against Democrats and Republicans.

    The genie is out of the bottle with cryptocurrencies, so the government may not be able to stop it, and it could be what finally takes down central banking/fiat currency and governments.

  33. Andy

    DJ said: “Was it political? That’s irrelevant. He was arrested. No excuse is good enough. Any ‘reason’ given is just an excuse to exercise an authority taken, not given. Arresting, and giving citations is typically a revenue generating effort. In any other industry it would be called job justification.”

    I seriously doubt that they would have pulled him over the second time, or that they would have brought out the drug sniffing dog, if they had not read the file on him in their law enforcement database. Whether or not they were motivated by not liking his politics or by greed, or both, I don’t know, but I find it hard to believe that this happened at random, as in without them having looked into his file in their database.

  34. Anthony Dlugos

    andy,

    if he stays out of prison and shows up at the convention, I’ll by you lunch at the 2020 Convention.

    This guy is gonna flame out before then, IMHO.

  35. Andy

    “Anthony Dlugos
    January 24, 2018 at 13:53
    andy,

    if he stays out of prison and shows up at the convention, I’ll by you lunch at the 2020 Convention.

    This guy is gonna flame out before then, IMHO.”

    I think that there’s a good chance you will owe me lunch then. I don’t know if he’s going to win the nomination or not, but I think that he will at least be in attendance.

  36. Andy

    Update from Adam Kokesh from jail in Wise County, Texas.

    Open letter to Sheriff Akin of Wise County From Adam Kokesh

  37. Andy

    Adam is interviewed from jail by Josh Sigurdson of World Alternative Media.

    Adam Kokesh LIVE From Jail – EXCLUSIVE Interview

  38. DJ

    Andy: I seriously doubt that they would have pulled him over the second time, or that they would have brought out the drug sniffing dog, if they had not read the file on him in their law enforcement database. Whether or not they were motivated by not liking his politics or by greed, or both, I don’t know, but I find it hard to believe that this happened at random, as in without them having looked into his file in their database.

    Me: I didn’t say, or even imply it was random. I simply stated, the excuse is irrelevant.

    It’s a bullshit tactic used on “celebrities” and others for revenue. I don’t think greed has anything to do with it. It’s a necessity to job justification. Hell, Willie Nelson has been arrested numerous times in different places and arrested for possession. He has no political following, but, he does generate publicity and offers a source of revenue. I read he said that anymore he just pays the fine and goes on about his business- he has the money to do that. Not everyone does. Hell, Ron White was busted for possession of pot- it’s just an excuse to show who’s in charge. Many celebrities are hassled- many civilians are hassled. The excuse used is “public safety” which is a joke. An excuse is merely a lame justification of an action, or thought. Most “public safety” issues are legally excused thought policing because something ‘might’ happen. The most egregious being making decisions for yourself.

    BTW, I watched the video of the letter. Did you read the comments?

  39. wolfefan

    Anyone who knows anything about drug interdiction knows that drug dogs are called all the time for speeding tickets, etc. with or without legitimate cause. It can be an issue of a drug dog is not nearby, but officers are almost always able to articulate some sort of suspicion, however phony, to justify a search if a dog is handy.

  40. Don Wills

    To continue with wolfefan’s scenario — There are anecdotal stories of corrupt cops that know how to signal to a drug dog to indicate drugs, even when there are one, thus allowing a search.

    Highway robbery by cops is quite common in the USA, and drug sniffing dogs being triggered is all they need to have probable cause to search your vehicle and then steal all of your money even if you don’t have any drugs or other contraband.

    Did anyone even bother to read the Institute for Justice link I posted earlier? The Wyoming state cops (and their superiors) who stole $90,000 should be in jail. But we know that’s simply not going to happen. In the end after IJ showed up with the press, Wyoming folded and gave the money back. The story should be a real wake-up call for people to come to their senses and recognize that we’ve become a police state. Unfortunately, almost everyone is asleep. And quite frankly, the sheep-citizens of the USA deserve whatever happens to them — herded into pens for slaughtering — for being so stupid.

  41. steve m

    Andy stated…

    “He is in jail for a victimless crime, one that may be partially, or even completely, trumped up. There are millions of people out there who would agree that this arrest is bullshit, and I do not believe that this is something that would dissuade a lot of people from voting for him. Anyone who would not vote for him because of this is not likely to vote for any Libertarian candidate for anything.”

    Some times Andy is 100% correct.

  42. steve m

    if they did chase him down because of what the read in the database…. that is what should concern you.

  43. steve m

    George Phillies states… and I don’t often disagree with Dr Phillies… but

    “Andy’s claim that speeding is a victimless crime is also crazy, namely it interferes with everyone else’s ability to use the road safely. If I am driving along at the se=peed limit, and some idiot is passing me at 10 mph over, my ability to make an emergency swerve is significantly reduced. Alternatively, the rear end of my car is endangered.”

    Maybe in Massachusetts but out here in the wild west the primary purpose of very low speed limits is too collect revenue to pay for the people who’s job it is to enforce the speed limit.

    If the average velocity of traffic is several miles an hour over the posted limit it is those staying below the posted limit that are causing the hazard. Particularly when they are in the passing lane.

    Fear not the state legislatures have realized this opportunity for additional revenue and are now allowing these revenue collectors… aka high way robbers ^m^m^m^m^m patrolmen to extract revenue from them as well.

    If this was about safety then why are Oregon Interstates so much less safe then Washington or California interstates? Oregon limits the velocity to 65 while Washington and California limit it to 70?

  44. steve m

    while we are on the subject of speed limits in Texas…. there is an old story about a guy who was racing down an east texas highway when he passed by a texas sheriff who was hiding behind a sign…

    the sheriff pulls out in pursuit with his lights flashing and the driver knowing he was busted pulls over…

    the driver rolls down his window as the sheriff walked up allowing the police officer tolean in through the window where upon the sheriff stated…

    “boy I have been waiting all day for you”

    The driver retorted….

    “officer I got here as fast as I could”

  45. Anthony Dlugos

    Andy stated…

    “He is in jail for a victimless crime, one that may be partially, or even completely, trumped up. There are millions of people out there who would agree that this arrest is bullshit, and I do not believe that this is something that would dissuade a lot of people from voting for him. Anyone who would not vote for him because of this is not likely to vote for any Libertarian candidate for anything.”

    Depends what you think the definition of the word “this” is.

    Do I have sympathy for Kokesh if he was arrested for a victimless crime? Yes. Would this incident cause me to not support him as a delegate to the 2020 Convention? Among multiple other reasons, yes.

    Once again, I’m looking at this from the perspective of the typical voter. Whatever I think about Kokesh’s message doesn’t matter, because I am already gonna vote Libertarian anyway. I have to consider how a person who knows little or nothing about our party and our philosophy would view this incident when he/she wakes up on, say September 6, 2020, and figures,

    “hey, I think I’ll start paying attention to the campaigns of the various candidates and decide whom to vote for in 8 weeks. Well, here’s a guy who’s never held office before who wants to abolish the government and who got arrested a couple years ago driving around in a mobile home in Texas. Next.”

    Multiply that by about 100,000,000 other voters, and you’ll understand why our candidate, given our general message, has to be above reproach, fair or unfair. I can have all the sympathy in the world for a guy like Adam, but when it comes to who is our candidate, I am strictly business, and he is and will certainly be completely unqualified for the position that voters are looking to “interview” for, FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE.

  46. Andy

    I have done a lot of driving all over this country. I have been to and driven in the 48 contiguous states, plus DC. I have been pulled over by cops in multiple states, and I have been harassed and had my rights violated by the police in multiple states (mostly while working on petition drives, but I have been harassed on other occasions as well). Even with all I have been through, I never had the police call in drug sniffing dogs.

    I know Lots of people who have also done lots of driving around the country and who have been pulled over and/or harassed by the police who did not have the police bring in drug sniffing dogs.

    I think that it is pretty obvious that the police brought in the drug sniffing dog on Adam because they read a file about him in their law enforcement database that said that he is a political rabble-rouser who has marijuana related arrests on his record (see my post above about some of his arrests).

    I am also a political rabble-rouser, although I am not as well known as Adam, and I have been harassed by law enforcement for it, and I have even been falsely arrested for it (in Maryland and Arkansas, as documented here on IPR), but I have never been arrested for marijuana or for any other so called “illegal” drugs.

    Whether or not the motivation behind Adam’s arrest was politics or greed or both, I suspect that they read a file about him and decided to mess with him more based on that.

  47. Andy

    Anthony, you would not support Adam Kokesh anyway, regardless of whether or not he got arrested. You want the LP to run “shiny badge” candidates, and you have admitted that you put mainstream credentials over libertarian principles.

    Anyone who would not vote for Adam Kokesh due to him having been arrested over BS charges for things that should not even be considered to be crimes is not somebody who is likely to vote for any Libertarian candidate for anything, so the heck with those people.

  48. Anthony Dlugos

    “Anthony, you would not support Adam Kokesh anyway, regardless of whether or not he got arrested.”

    “Anthony, VOTERS would not support Adam Kokesh anyway, regardless of whether or not he got arrested. ”

    Fixed It For Ya. I don’t give two sh*ts about Libertarian preferences regarding who our best candidate is. There were about 130,000,000 voters in the last presidential election. Why would I care what 1,000 people in a convention hall in Orlando want?

  49. Andy

    There are already choices on the ballot for people who want to vote for mainstream candidates with fancy credentials. Those choices are called the Democratic and the Republican parties. Both of those parties already have their voter bases, and a very large percentage of those people are not going to change no matter what Libertarians do, including when the party bends over backwards trying to appease them by running candidate who are just like them.

    Over half of the people in this country do not vote. Out of those that do vote, there is a percentage of them who hold their noses and vote for whomever they perceive to be the lesser of two evils between the major party candidate, but, like I said above, the D’s and the R’s both have plenty of “true believers” as well.

    The purpose of the LP is not to get votes for the sake of getting votes, it is to move move society in a libertarian direction so the Libertarian platform can be implemented. Running candidates who sound like the D’s and R’s does nothing to further the purpose of the party.

    The LP is not in a position to realistically contest for the office of President anyway, so acting like the LP is “running to win” by nominating “shiny badge” candidates like Johnson/Weld is completely delusional. Running candidates who severely water down, and in a lot of cases, outright run against, the LP’s platform to the extent that Johnson/Weld did, sends out the message that the LP is not a serious political party as it does not take its own platform seriously.

  50. Andy

    Marijuana legalization is an issue that is going mainstream and has already been passed in multiple states. There are millions of people out there who would agree that these charges against Adam are bullshit.

    I think that this arrest could be turned into a good campaign commercial.

  51. Anthony Dlugos

    “There are already choices on the ballot for people who want to vote for mainstream candidates with fancy credentials. Those choices are called the Democratic and the Republican parties.”

    That’s because voters require “fancy credentials” in their presidential candidates. You’re not appealing to anyone but yourself when you support a catastrophically unqualified candidate with no fancy credentials. As I noted, voters wouldn’t vote for Kokesh for president, arrest or not. That’s exactly the point. The arrest is irrelevant.

    “The purpose of the LP is not to get votes for the sake of getting votes, it is to move move society in a libertarian direction so the Libertarian platform can be implemented.”

    In the electoral arena, you don’t move society in a Libertarian direction without getting votes. End of story.

  52. Anthony Dlugos

    “Marijuana legalization is an issue that is going mainstream and has already been passed in multiple states. There are millions of people out there who would agree that these charges against Adam are bullshit.

    I think that this arrest could be turned into a good campaign commercial.”

    Yes, an ex-governor advocating for the legalization of marijuana could lend credence to the message.

    Kokesh’s arrest is just a dopehead driving through Texas.

  53. Andy

    Anthony Dlugos said: “That’s because voters require ‘fancy credentials’ in their presidential candidates. You’re not appealing to anyone but yourself when you support a catastrophically unqualified candidate with no fancy credentials. As I noted, voters wouldn’t vote for Kokesh for president, arrest or not. That’s exactly the point. The arrest is irrelevant.”

    You mean Democratic and Republican party loyalist voters, who are not the people whom Libertarians should appeal.

    Unlike you, I have talked to a lot of “regular people” (in this case, I mean people who are not dues paying LP members), who said that they voted for Johnson/Weld, and not one person said that they voted for them because they are former governors. The biggest reason by far that people voted for them was because they were not Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. Lots of people even called it a protest vote.

    Ralph Nader didn’t have any fancy titles next to his name, and he did almost as well as Johnson/Weld in terms of raw votes and vote percent in 2000, and the 2000 election had a more difficult set of circumstances for minor party and independent candidates than the 2016 election had.

  54. Andy

    Anthony Dlugos said: “Yes, an ex-governor advocating for the legalization of marijuana could lend credence to the message.

    Kokesh’s arrest is just a dopehead driving through Texas.”

    You put a lot more value on fancy titles than a lot of people do. There are already political parties for people who worship fancy titles. They are called the Democrats and the Republicans.

    There are millions of Americans who have been unfairly harassed, and in some cases, unfairly arrested or fined by the police. These are all people who can identify with what happened to Adam Kokesh.

    People who worship authority figures and who think that everything is fine and dandy with the police in this country are not the target audience for the Libertarian Party.

  55. Anthony Dlugos

    “You mean Democratic and Republican party loyalist voters, who are not the people whom Libertarians should appeal.”

    We have voluminous polling in this country, voters, non-voters, and just the general public overall. There is zero data that points to any constituency for some radical message of abolishing the government delivered by the catastrophically unqualified. In fact, there’s not anything more than 10% of the most dyed-in-the-wool Libertarians (delegates to a convention) for such a message.

    The idea that such a message would play better in the larger populace, that there is a hidden constituency for a radical message, is not just fantasyland thinking, its contradicted by the evidence.

    Most radicals tacitly understand this, which is why they fall back to:

    1) winning is not important
    2) at least my guy is a “real” libertarian.
    3) the constituency for radical libertarianism is “4 or 5” election cycles down the road, just trust us.

    “Unlike you, I have talked to a lot of “regular people” (in this case, I mean people who are not dues paying LP members), who said that they voted for Johnson/Weld, and not one person said that they voted for them because they are former governors.”

    Of course they won’t mention that. That’s because its a given that candidates for office have some sort of resume, or “fancy credentials” as the fringe calls it. I’d no more expect them to mention that our candidate was an ex-governor than for my Cleveland Browns to mention that their first draft pick this year was a former college football player. Its a given.

    “Fancy Credentials” CAN be a Princeton/Harvard educated attorney with multiple decades in the public eye “fighting” for consumer advocacy, or whatever Ralph calls it. Even that is far outside the mainstream of what voters typically want in a president.

    I can assure you a no-name felon wandering around the country in an RV with zero name recognition and no advanced degree, does not equal Ralph Nader. If Kokesh wants to prove to me he has the chops to “abolish the government,” go run for mayor of some small town, abolish that government, then go run for the LP nomination. Otherwise, he’s just a snake-oil salesman looking for the easily duped, and frankly you’re his prey.

  56. Chuck Moulton

    Anthony Dlugos wrote:

    I’d no more expect them to mention that our candidate was an ex-governor than for my Cleveland Browns to mention that their first draft pick this year was a former college football player. Its a given.

    I’d no more expect libertarians to memtion that they want a candidate who espouses libertarian positions than for your Cleveland Browns to mention that they want their first round draft pick to score points for them and not the other team. It’s a given.

  57. dL

    There were about 130,000,000 voters in the last presidential election.

    To be blunt, for those 130,000,000 you speak of, I would guess Iraqi war veteran would be a more impressive credential than a degree from haaaarrrvard…just saying

  58. Andy Craig

    Above it was cited that Ralph Nader in 2000 (2.7%) did almost as well as Johnson in 2016 (3.3%). Both being well in excess of the pre-Johnson norm for the LP (~0.4%).

    So it’s true Nader did relatively well… and that rather proves the point. No, it’s not about “fancy titles” and it’s not about necessarily running somebody who’s held office before. Being an ex-governor is just one of many ways a presidential candidate can acquire some degree of credibility and notability. Another, is being an prominent well-known national celebrity, which Ralph Nader had been for decades prior to running for President, including a lot of work involving government regulatory agencies. He may well have had higher name-ID with the general public than Johnson did. He might still.

    In spite of the oft-repeated strawman, I’ve never seen anybody insist that the LP nominee for POTUS *has* to be an elected officeholder. But there’s a lot of room on the spectrum between “ex-Governor” and “random nobody.” If we’re talking about a CEO with experience running a big business and a lot of personal wealth, or a well-known national figure whose name the average person on the street would recognize, then OK. Then we can talk about the merits of running that person vs. the somewhat larger pool of more traditional politicians. But just like Donald Trump, the takeaway is *not* that random unqualified person who nobody’s ever heard of can run for President and do well…. it’s that celebrity and name-ID, and really only at the highest A-list level, can sometimes be an acceptable substitute for more conventional political experience.

  59. dL

    But just like Donald Trump, the takeaway is *not* that random unqualified person who nobody’s ever heard of can run for President and do well…. it’s that celebrity and name-ID, and really only at the highest A-list level, can sometimes be an acceptable substitute for more conventional political experience.

    How did Trump do with that 2000 Reform Party run? Trump was at 1-2% in the GOP polls in 2016 until he started ranting like George Wallace(hard core right wing populist). It had nothing to with celebrity and name-ID. It had more to do with the fact he was able to pose as an outsider, was willing to say the unthinkable…and, of course, had a 100 million dollars on hand.

  60. steve m

    yea…

    as Anthony Dlugos stated…

    “Multiply that by about 100,000,000 other voters, and you’ll understand why our candidate, given our general message, has to be above reproach, fair or unfair.”

    Any political party that runs a candidate that isn’t above reproach will end up just like the 2016 Republicans who ran Trump…. They might just win.

  61. Andy Craig

    If Trump had been the Reform Party nominee, I think he would have got more votes than Nader ended up getting that year. But I also think it’s a mistake Trump ever really intended to become the Reform Party nominee in 2000.

    Trump was also never polling as low as 1-3% for the 2016 GOP primary, except maybe a few random very early polls before he entered the race. When he did, he took a very early lead almost immediately, for a while as the only candidate in double-digits, and kept that lead for the remainder of the primary. Of course the message he ran on was part of the equation– it always is– but without his notoriety and brand and instant ability to generate unlimited media coverage, the same ideological/issues message is just another Tom Tancredo. If not for his pre-existing celebrity status, it’s unlikely Trump would have run at all.

  62. Anthony Dlugos

    steve m,

    As you quoted me, I said “given our general message.”

    The LP candidate is not just making a play to essentially kick the can down the road, with some formulation of previous tried government solutions. As I may have mentioned before here, moderate or not, the LP candidate, from the perspective of the general voting public…is essentially arguing for some level of the largest managed bankruptcy in the history of humanity.

    So, not only does the Radical absurdly suggest that Trump…a man with 100% name recognition, 40 years in the public eye, and decades of experience at the head of a billion dollar organization…prove that literally ANYONE can win…they are suggesting that the fact that a message of the same tired old hackneyed government “solutions” ended up winning essentially proves that a message of the dissolution of a 2.8 million employee organization with a $4 trillion annual budget conducted by a no-name nobody with no experience at the head of anything at all is a message that would potentially be considered by voters. It never has, wouldn’t, and never will. The only people who will listen to it are the already converted. Hell, the LP doesn’t even buy that message: it got 7% of the delegates when faced with a far more qualified moderate candidate.

    Actually, as I have previously remarked. radicals rarely hold this position when faced with it because of its astonishing absurdity, so they fall back to saying some variation of “winning isn’t important,” or that what matter is the candidate is a “real” libertarian. In other words, it doesn’t matter what the voters we are trying to appeal to think, what matters is what we think. A LP member I know said it best: a significant fraction of our party acts likes the LP is a Member Services Organization that needs to appeal to its members first, instead of an Outreach organization that needs to appeal to people outside the organization first.

  63. Andy

    The LP stands no chance 9f electing anyone President, regardless of who the party runs, and radical changes would have to occur in this country before a presidential election year to even make the possibility of the LP electing somebody President anything beyond a pipe dream.

    Given this reality, the LP running a presidential ticket to win is not really an option that is on the table.

    So why should the LP run a presidential ticket at all? Because it is an outreach tool for spreading the Libertarian message, and building the party and movement for future success.

    Running candidate who water down and/or stray from the LP’s platform to the extent that Johnson/Weld did is actually counterproductive to the purpose of the party.

    The purpose of the LP is not to get votes for the sake of getting votes, it is to build support for the LP’s platform.

  64. Andy

    Johnson/Weld spent tens times as much money as the other candidates at the national convention spent combined, yet they still only won their nominations by a narrow margin, and that is only because they stacked the convention with the most delegates (I have heard that they were literally paying people to fill conventions seats and vote for Johnson/Weld).

    If more real libertarians had gotten off of their asses and gone to that convention, Johnson and Weld would have lost.

    So this was hardly a case of the best candidates winning. It waa more a case of some slick outside hustlers coming into a weakened minor party and taking advantage of its weakened state by throwing some money around and stacking its delegation. They also hyped up a bunch of bullshit promises that only the most naive party members believed.

  65. Andy

    If there waa a gathering of more legitimate libertarians, let’s say Porcfest or Anachapulco, or perhaps a Mises Institute gathering, Johnson/Weld would certainly not win much , if any, support, and they may well get booed off stage.

  66. Anthony Dlugos

    “So why should the LP run a presidential ticket at all? Because it is an outreach tool for spreading the Libertarian message, and building the party and movement for future success.”

    sorry, try again, that’s not in the job description of the President of the USA, per the Constitution.

  67. Anthony Dlugos

    “If there waa a gathering of more legitimate libertarians, let’s say Porcfest or Anachapulco, or perhaps a Mises Institute gathering, Johnson/Weld would certainly not win much , if any, support, and they may well get booed off stage.”

    lol.

  68. Andy

    Yes, it is pretty funny that Johnson/Weld could not win in a room full of actual libertarians. They won by stacking empty convention seats with people who were not really libertarians.

  69. Andy

    The platform of Johnson/Weld was outside the bounds of the US Constitution, but it is not as though they ever stood any chance at being elected.

  70. Anthony Dlugos

    ha, I normally don’t as you know. I was posting something in caps lock for work and forgot to undo.

  71. Starchild

    When a libertarian activist is arrested for something that libertarians agree shouldn’t be a crime, or at most should be a citation (if you agree with the state robbing people by that means for things like exceeding arbitrary speed limits), this is a time for voicing support for the victim.

    When the State goes after people in the freedom movement, those responsible need to pay a price – they should be slammed in our media (and the mainstream media to the extent we can get such outlets to listen) and feel public pressure over their unjustifiable actions. We want them to think twice before targeting our people for persecution.

    In short, such circumstances are a time for movement solidarity, and for us to speak with as close to one voice as a movement of individualist free thinkers can ever manage. It is reprehensible, in my opinion, for libertarians to fault such an arrestee for making bad choices, or opine about such an arrest making the individual less worthy of representing the Libertarian Party as a candidate. That is not only punishing the victim, it is making future persecution of libertarians more likely, and undermining our movement as a whole.

  72. Andy

    Starchild said: “In short, such circumstances are a time for movement solidarity, and for us to speak with as close to one voice as a movement of individualist free thinkers can ever manage. It is reprehensible, in my opinion, for libertarians to fault such an arrestee for making bad choices, or opine about such an arrest making the individual less worthy of representing the Libertarian Party as a candidate. That is not only punishing the victim, it is making future persecution of libertarians more likely, and undermining our movement as a whole.”

    Well said. I agree.

  73. Anthony Dlugos

    Starchild writes,

    “It is reprehensible, in my opinion, for libertarians to fault such an arrestee for making bad choices, or opine about such an arrest making the individual less worthy of representing the Libertarian Party as a candidate.”

    The arrest absolutely makes him less worthy of representing the Libertarian Party as a candidate, for the simple reason that it makes him less viable to the voting public. This is just reality.

    This arrest comes on top of the fact that he is a complete political neophyte apparently nutty enough to think he is qualified to run for president on a platform of abolishing the federal government, AND on top of the stories about him being less than respectful of the women in his entourage, making them sign screwball contracts, apparently.

    As a private citizen, he deserves our support for being charged with a victimless crimes. As an activist, he deserves the same.

    HOWEVER, when he declares himself a candidate for public office, intending to secure our ballot access line, that changes EVERYTHING. No one is coercing him into doing that, and EVERYTHING in his or her past is fair game for our criticism. Everything. How the public views such a person is relevant. His or her past is relevant.

    This is not an unusual concept. I have a sister who runs a preschool in Northeast Ohio. Last year, she advised a newly graduated cousin of ours who was getting into the teaching world not to post ANYTHING on any social networking site that she wouldn’t want a potential employer, now or in the future, to see, whether that post is public or private. Nothing. Everything this cousin says and does is reflects on her character to her potential employers, and those potential employers have every reason to see, say, a Facebook picture of my cousin imbibing alcohol in a compromising position and deciding that that is NOT an image they want associated with someone in their employ, regardless of when and where the photo was taken.

    I am sorry, but Kokesh is attempting to secure the single most important thing anyone can ask of the Libertarian Party: our ballot access line for President. You ask for that, and I am considering all the people who have come before you, all the people who sacrificed countless hours working for this party, and I am telling you you better be above reproach. I will make your life an open book and shine a flashlight into every crevasse and make sure there is nothing at all that is going to come back and bite us in the butt. You want that ballot access line, I am gonna cut you zero slack. Zero. Fair or unfair, if there is something in your past that could cause our party a problem, you are disqualified, period. The good name and brand image of our party is far more important than any one person.

    At that point, my sympathy for his arrest for a victimless crime returns. But as long as he wants that ballot access line, he is held to a different set of standards.

  74. Cheryl Mattsen

    I think he is out of jail, but I can’t find out exactly what happened. I saw a video dated Feb 22nd and he got a new bus/motorhome to tour in.

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