Adam Kokesh released from jail (video)

64 thoughts on “Adam Kokesh released from jail (video)

  1. Chuck Moulton

    Yes. He was pulled over for speeding, arrested for drugs, then spun a wackadoodle tinfoil hat conspiracy theory about it rather than taking personal responsibility for his own actions, imploring his followers to harrass the sheriff and prosecutor by phone. Btw, he is running for president and shockingly believes his recent conduct reflects well on his campaign.

    Less surpisingly, he is associated with the Mises Caucus which is full of pathological liars and have a “the ends justify the means” attitude which they apparently think excuses making shit up.

    Chances I will vote for Kokesh in convention: negative 10%.

  2. Andy

    I just talked to Michael Heise today. Adam Kokesh is not a member of the Mises Caucus. Heise has known Adam for several years, and he apparently worked on his old show for I believe he said 3 months, but his efforts with the Mises Caucus, and those of Adam Kokesh, are separate, and should be regarded that way, in spite of Chuck’s guilt-by-association smears.

  3. Andy

    “paulie
    February 3, 2018 at 20:35
    Chuck is correct. They are closely linked even if that association is not formal.”

    They know each other, but Adam Kokesh has not joined the Mises Caucus.

  4. dL

    Yes. He was pulled over for speeding, arrested for drugs, then spun a wackadoodle tinfoil hat conspiracy theory about it rather than taking personal responsibility for his own actions, imploring his followers to harrass the sheriff and prosecutor by phone. Btw, he is running for president and shockingly believes his recent conduct reflects well on his campaign.

    Chuck, you have ridiculed speeding and drug laws on this forum, so I’m unclear as to what crimes you think he needs to take responsibility for. And I certainly will not shed a tear if some bumfuck Texas sheriff and prosecutor get phone harassed. That being said, it is a questionable–if not dubious–proposition that he was politically targeted.

    Less surpisingly, he is associated with the Mises Caucus which is full of pathological liars

    His twitter account did repeat the peckerwood accusations that the LP has an endemic pedophilia problem(in relation to Arvin Vohra). That cancels out whatever sympathy I may have had for him vis a vis the above. As a declared LP Presidential candidate, I think the Mises Caucus is one of his least concerns re: his associations. There are some bad looks there.

  5. Chuck Moulton

    I’m no fan of speeding laws or drug laws. But if I speed or do drugs, then it’s not a mystery or a big conspiracy if I get arrested.

    Additionally, if I were running for office or otherwise had a public profile, I think it would be wise to curtail activities which could lead to arrest, as it would be more embarrassing and hurt my image. As a private citizen, I would have less of an image to guard.

  6. Andy Craig

    Why would a small-town police department in Texas target a guy with several priors rolling through town in an RV almost certain to have drugs in it? I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess it’s not because they give a shit about him joining such esteemed candidates as Deez Nuts and Wanderlustr Dot Com in filing an FEC Form 2.

  7. paulie

    They know each other, but Adam Kokesh has not joined the Mises Caucus.

    Like I said there is a clear association that goes well beyond “they know each other.” I conceded that it may be informal. I don’t know if they even have a formal membership.

  8. Andy

    It is not normal for the police to pull somebody over on a highway for going 9 mph over the speed limit, especially on a rural stretch in a western state that has a high speed limit, and especially since the same individual had been pulled over in the same state shortly before this over license plate questions. It is also not normal for the police to bring out a drug sniffing dog because somebody got pulled over for going 9 mph over the speed limit, and it is quite possible that the cops lied about the dog detecting anything (if he had any marijuana, it would likely have been a small amount, and it would have likely been in a closed container inside his large motor home, so I am quite skeptical of a dog outside of the motor home on the side of a highway on a windy day detecting it).

    As was already brought up in the previous thread on this issue, what likely happened is that him getting pulled over the first time caused the local cops to look into his file in the law enforcement database. They would have read that he is a libertarian political activist who has been arrested several times, and that some of those arrests were marijuana related. So they decided to mess with him, either because they don’t like his politics, or because they were hoping to be able to seize assets from him and/or fine him, or both.

    Anyone who thinks this sounds outrageous is extremely naive.

  9. DJ

    Andy: It is not normal for the police to pull somebody over on a highway for going 9 mph over the speed limit, especially on a rural stretch in a western state that has a high speed limit,

    Me: It wasn’t exactly a rural highway. I was one pulled over for doing 60 in a 55 (going downhill) by the DPS (department of public safety-the highway patrol) just outside Huntsville which at the time was rural, but it was I-45. Where he was pulled over is getting real close to a high population area just west and north of Fort Worth.

    I don’t disagree with your over all assessment about checking his “file”, but, generally that is done on any stop, especially if dealer tags are involved. Why they pulled him over a second time is yet to be determined, but, not likely to be.

  10. Andy

    “DJ
    February 4, 2018 at 11:04
    Andy: It is not normal for the police to pull somebody over on a highway for going 9 mph over the speed limit, especially on a rural stretch in a western state that has a high speed limit,

    Me: It wasn’t exactly a rural highway. I was one pulled over for doing 60 in a 55 (going downhill) by the DPS (department of public safety-the highway patrol) just outside Huntsville which at the time was rural, but it was I-45. Where he was pulled over is getting real close to a high population area just west and north of Fort Worth.”

    I have driven all over this country. I have driven in the 48 contiguous states plus DC. I have driven from the east coast to the west coast, and from the west coast to the east coast, multiple times. I have driven in Texas multiple times, most recently in December of 2016. I have driven in and around the Dallas/Fort Worth area. It is not normal for the police to pull people over for traveling 9 mph over the speed limit on a highway. Yes, it happens sometimes, usually when a cop is bored, and it usually result in the person pulled over getting a warning, or getting a speeding ticket. It is not normal for a person to be pulled over shortly after they were pulled over, which, in this case was when Adam got pulled over due to the first cop questioning his license plate, and then after that first cop ran a make on him, and then let him go. It is not normal for the police to bring out a drug sniffing dog because they pulled somebody over for travelling 9 mph over the speed limit.

    I have been pulled over by the police in multiple states, and I’ve even been harassed by the police for engaging in political activity, but even I have never had them bring out a drug sniffing dog, which, in part, is probably because I’ve never been arrested for drugs.

    If it were common for the police to pull people over for going 9 mph over the speed limit on a highway, then there’d be a lot more people getting pulled over than are pulled over now.

    Some of you people here apparently don’t get out much.

  11. Andy

    “I have driven in Texas multiple times, most recently in December of 2016. ”

    I actually meant to say that the last time I drove in Texas was in December of 2017, as in just recently.

  12. Andy

    This is for the people who think that it is “wackadoodle” to suggest that the police keep files on political activists, and that this likely had something to do with those cops in Texas doing what they did to Adam Kokesh.

    Back in 2002, the Denver Police Department got caught keeping spy files on several activist groups, including the Libertarian Party. Does anyone out there think that the Denver Police Department is the only police department that did this? We know that they were doing this back in 2002, but does anyone out there really think that they are not doing this now? If anything, I’d say that their spy grid has gotten bigger since then.

    Denver Spy Files Target Libertarian Party

    http://www.freecolorado.com/2002/09/spyfiles.html

    From the article: “The Denver Police Department kept secret ‘spy files’ on the Libertarian Party, Walter Schlomer reported in a recent e-mail. Schlomer, who serves on Colorado’s state LP board as Fundraising Director, picked up a copy of the file September 5 at Denver police headquarters.

    Denver police kept files on peaceful protesters and community activists from across the political spectrum, prompting outrage by the ACLU and many other organizations. Because of criticism and threats of legal action, the department is now releasing some of the files.”

  13. DJ

    Andy: Some of you people here apparently don’t get out much.

    Me: I live in Texas. I was born in Fort Worth.

    Me: It wasn’t exactly a rural highway. I was one pulled over for doing 60 in a 55 (going downhill) by the DPS (department of public safety-the highway patrol) just outside Huntsville which at the time was rural, but it was I-45. Where he was pulled over is getting real close to a high population area just west and north of Fort Worth.

    Me: I don’t disagree with your over all assessment about checking his “file”, but, generally that is done on any stop, especially if dealer tags are involved. Why they pulled him over a second time is yet to be determined, but, not likely to be.

    Andy:This is for the people who think that it is “wackadoodle” to suggest that the police keep files on political activists, and that this likely had something to do with those cops in Texas doing what they did to Adam Kokesh.

    Me: Me: I don’t disagree with your over all assessment about checking his “file”.
    Me: Why they pulled him over a second time is yet to be determined, but, not likely to be.

  14. Andy

    “DJ
    February 4, 2018 at 15:32
    ‘Andy: Some of you people here apparently don’t get out much.’

    Me: I live in Texas. I was born in Fort Worth.

    Me: It wasn’t exactly a rural highway. I was one pulled over for doing 60 in a 55 (going downhill) by the DPS (department of public safety-the highway patrol) just outside Huntsville which at the time was rural, but it was I-45. Where he was pulled over is getting real close to a high population area just west and north of Fort Worth.”

    1) Close to an area is not in an area;

    2) I have driven in and around numerous major metropolitan areas all of the country, from Los Angeles, to Phoenix, to Las Vegas, to Denver, to Dallas/Fort Worth, to Austin, to Houston, to Chicago, to Indianapolis, to Philadelphia, to etc… I have driven in every major metropolitan area in the country with the exception of Detroit, Michigan (I’ve never been there), and San Antonio, Texas (I have been there, but I was riding with somebody else and did not drive there myself). Yes, sometimes the police pull people over for going 9 mph over the speed limit, but it is not the norm. People regularly exceed the speed limit. I lived in the Los Angeles area for years and people regularly exceeded the speed limit on the highways. Unless a person was driving well over the speed limit (and 9 mph over the speed limit is not well over the speed limit), the odds of getting pulled over were pretty slim. The odds of getting pulled over for going 9 mph over the speed limit shortly after being pulled over and let go over a license plate question is even more slim.

  15. Andy

    Also, after Adam was pulled over for going 9 mph over the speed limit, the cop could have either issued him a warning, or written him out a speeding citation. There was no reason to bring in the drug sniffing dog, and I seriously doubt they would have done this if they had not read his file in the law enforcement database. I am also highly skeptical that the dog really detected any “illegal” drugs even if he had them. This was just an excuse to fuck with him, and it was either motivated by politics or greed, or both.

  16. Andy

    The simple act of Adam handing, or attempting to hand, his book, Freedom, actually could have triggered the cops into fucking with him (I’m not saying that this is what did it, I’m just saying that it is a possibility). I know that most of the posters here do little or no real world activism (and going to an LP meeting and strutting around like you are important does not really count here), but anyone out there who has done a lot of real world activism knows that you sometimes encounter people who are really hostile to your activism. I have encountered people who are cops or public school teachers or public librarians or tax revenue agents or DEA agents or who work for some other government agency, or who are local politicians, or who are just die hard Democrats or Republicans, and I’ve had them explode on me. Some of them will start screaming like lunatics, and some will call the police and try to have you arrested.

    Asking somebody to sign a petition they don’t like (such as to place Libertarian Party candidates on the ballot, or to legalize marijuana, or to reduce or repeal a tax, or to limit government spending), can send these people into a rage. Offering them a pamphlet or flier or card, or showing them a lamented piece of paper about a candidate/party or issue, or even a World’s Smallest Political Quiz, can set these type of people off. i have had people ask me what a libertarian is, and I showed them a World’s Smallest Political Quiz, and after taking the quiz, they freaked out and got really nasty (these types typically score in the Authoritarian Quadrant of the Nolan Chart), and some of them even threw the quiz back at me. Holding up a political sign that some people don’t like can elicit people yelling at you and calling the police or security. I have had this happen while holding up signs, or having tables with signs attached to them, that said, Ron Paul for President, or Recall Gray Davis, or End The Fed, or Legalize Marijuana.

    I was on a petition drive a few years ago where Libertarian petitioner Jake Witmer handed somebody a card about jury nullification card (Jake designed the card, and he spent his own money to print up several thousand of them, and he handed them out to several thousand people over the course of multiple petition drives). This drive was not for the Libertarian Party, but it was what I’d call for a small “l” libertarian, or libertarian leaning cause. One day I got a phone call from another petition circulator (not Jake), who told me that they had an off duty cop come up to him and started yelling at him, because apparently, a day or two before this at another location from where this incident happened, this same off duty cop had encountered Jake gathering signatures, and he apparently asked Jake about the petitions, and I don’t know if he signed them or not, but Jake had offered him one of his Jury Rights cards, and the off duty cop took it. After this, he apparently read the card and did not like it, so a day or two later, while also off duty, he encountered another petition circulator at another location, and he went up to him and started yelling at him about the Jury Rights card that Jake had handed him (and it was not as though Jake shoved the card on anyone, he only asked people to take the card if they were interested). This other petition called me up and said that this guy who identified himself as an off duty cop was yelling about some other petitioner (Jake), having handed him a “jury scam card,” and that this other petitioner (Jake), was trying to get people to not follow the law. I explained to this petitioner what Jury Nullification was, and that it is not illegal, and that this off duty cop was a moronic authoritarian asshole who should stripped of his badge. Fortunately, nothing became of it after this.

    So yes, it is quite possible that the simple act of Adam offering, or handing out a copy, of his book, Freedom, could be enough to trigger a hardcore statist. Keep in mind that Adam attempted to distribute copies of his book to people in prison, and the US Department of Justice actually banned his book in prisons.

  17. Andy

    “The simple act of Adam handing, or attempting to hand,”

    Should read, “The simple act of Adam handing out, or attempting to hand out…”

  18. Andy

    The Homeland Security Fusion Center in Arkansas admitted that they spy on “anti-government” Americans, and that they share data with local law enforcement.

    Gee, I wonder Homeland Security Fusion Centers have any files on Adam Kokesh.

    Fusion Center Director: We Don’t Spy on All Americans, Just Anti-Government Americans

  19. paulie

    I’ve been all over the country many times too, and I have had drug sniffing dogs called out on me multiple times. I have been pulled over twice in a row in Texas for speeding within a short time frame. My parents got a speeding ticket for 75 in a 70 on a rural stretch of interstate in Mississippi. It happens.

  20. Andy

    “paulie
    February 4, 2018 at 18:18
    I’ve been all over the country many times too, and I have had drug sniffing dogs called out on me multiple times. I have been pulled over twice in a row in Texas for speeding within a short time frame. My parents got a speeding ticket for 75 in a 70 on a rural stretch of interstate in Mississippi. It happens.”

    The cops usually only bring out the drug sniffing dogs if they have reason to believe that a person may have drugs. You have a longer “rap sheet” than I do, as the only times I have been arrested were for petitioning, which was not even legal, and the charges got thrown out.

    I have been pulled over by the police, and I have even been harassed and frisked by the police while walking (and I don’t think that I look like a person who’d be more likely than average to elicit harassment from the police). I have never had drug sniffing dogs called out. I’m not saying that it can’t happen, I’m just saying that I’ve had many police encounters, and that one has not happened to me, most likely because I’ve never been arrested for drugs.

    Yes, it is possible to get a speeding ticket on a highway when not traveling much higher than the speed limit. I’m not saying that it never happens, I’m just saying that it is not the norm.

    Yes, a person can get pulled over more than once in a short, or relatively short, period of time, but once again, it is not likely.

    I seriously doubt that the cops would have brought in the drug sniffing dog on Adam is not for him having marijuana related arrests on his record (and like I said before, I don’t believe that the dog even really detected anything, even if he had it).

  21. Chuck Moulton

    Years ago (2003) during a cross country road trip I was pulled over and given a ticket for going 9 miles over the speed limit. I asked the cops what speed over the speed limit was okay to go without being pulled over and they said 7.

    The next state over (5 hours later) I was pulled over and given a ticket for going 5 miles over the speed limit. When I pointed out the other cop had said 7 miles over was okay, he said states are different and in his state they regularly pull people over for going 1 mile over the speed limit.

  22. paulie

    The cops usually only bring out the drug sniffing dogs if they have reason to believe that a person may have drugs. You have a longer “rap sheet” than I do, as the only times I have been arrested were for petitioning, which was not even legal, and the charges got thrown out.

    It happened to me more than once when I used to drive my own cars in the 90s and I had no rap sheet then. Kokesh does have a rap sheet though, specifically for drugs, so it’s certainly not surprising that he got extra harassment.

  23. Andy

    DJ said: “I don’t disagree with your over all assessment about checking his “file”, but, generally that is done on any stop, especially if dealer tags are involved. Why they pulled him over a second time is yet to be determined, but, not likely to be.”

    Whether or not the second pull over had any connection to the first pullover, I’d say that there is a very high likelihood that calling in the drug sniffing dog was done because they checked his file. I’d also say that there is a very high likelihood that the dog really didn’t detect anything, even if he had marijuana, and that they were just looking for an excuse to search his vehicle, which, once again, was probably motivated by politics, or greed, or both.

  24. Chuck Moulton

    Whether the stop and search was motivated by politics or not (hint: it wasn’t), it is a collossally bad idea for a presidential candidate to be driving around over the speed limit carrying drugs.

    There are many libertarians who are not libertine. I think a straightlaced teetotaler projects a better candidate image than someone with a long rap sheet. I don’t think Gary Johnson seeming stoned all the time reflected well on the LP either.

  25. Andy

    One more time. I have probably done more driving around the country than anyone here, probably by a long shot. I have been pulled over multiple times in multiple states (I have driven in the 48 contiguous states plus DC). I have never been pulled over, and then driven away (after being let go after being questioned or warned, or after receiving a citation), and then been pulled over again in less than an hour. I have also never had drug sniffing dogs called in on me.

  26. DJ

    Andy: I have driven all over this country. I have driven in the 48 contiguous states plus DC.

    Me: I have too. I drove an 18 wheeler coast to coast, border to border for 5 years before retiring.

    Anecdotal evidence is circumstantial.
    Cops have the power of discretion. How they use it is up to them.
    Anecdotally: I’ve had that discretion used against me for minor traffic violations more than once.
    Like I said previously, I doubt we’ll even know the reason. We will hear justifiable excuses.

    CM: Whether the stop and search was motivated by politics or not (hint: it wasn’t),
    Me: You know this how?

  27. paulie

    I have never been pulled over, and then driven away (after being let go after being questioned or warned, or after receiving a citation), and then been pulled over again in less than an hour.

    I have.

    I have also never had drug sniffing dogs called in on me.

    I have.

    So what do these anecdotes prove?

  28. Andy

    “DJ
    February 4, 2018 at 20:44
    Andy: I have driven all over this country. I have driven in the 48 contiguous states plus DC.

    ‘Me: I have too. I drove an 18 wheeler coast to coast, border to border for 5 years before retiring.’

    Anecdotal evidence is circumstantial.
    Cops have the power of discretion. How they use it is up to them.
    Anecdotally: I’ve had that discretion used against me for minor traffic violations more than once.
    Like I said previously, I doubt we’ll even know the reason. We will hear justifiable excuses”

    Adam already knows that the government spies on him. When he was arrested for protesting the missile attack on Syria in front of the White House last year, he said that when the police came up to him, before they even looked at his ID, or even asked who he was, they already knew his name. He said that while he was in custody, some federal agent admitted to him that they are monitoring him.

    You don’t think that with the amount of activism that Adam Kokesh has done, and the number of times that he’s been arrested, that they don’t have files on him, and that these files are not passed around to different law enforcement agencies?

    I’ve done a lot of activism, and I’ve been arrested twice while engaging in activism, and I’ve been ID’d by the police numerous times while doing activism, and I’ve had some weird shit happen to me, including right here on IPR with the trolling. Adam Kokesh has a much higher profile than I do, and has been arrested a lot more times than I have, So speculating that his recent arrest in Texas could have been in full or in part motivated by politics is not a wild stretch of the imagination, and I’d say that it is even more probable that the police looked at his file and saw that he has marijuana related arrests on his record, and that’s why they brought in the drug sniffing dog. This could have been motivated by politics or greed or both.

  29. Starchild

    Regardless of how often the State seeks to rob or kidnap people in circumstances similar to those under which some ethically-challenged government employees decided to treat Adam Kokesh in this manner, they obviously did it, and – to anyone with a clue about libertarianism – it is just as obviously wrong.

    Whether or not I agree with Adam’s reported comments about pedophilia, or like him as a candidate, or think he took any actions which made his mistreatment more likely, or approve of the Mises Caucus or his possible association with that group, are all immaterial here as far as I’m concerned. He was wrongfully victimized, and that’s what I’m focused on. These “laws” are immoral and unconstitutional thuggery, and Libertarians should have the backs of our activists in situations like this.

    When libertarian-curious people come across stories like this online, I want them to see us defending our comrades, not squabbling amongst ourselves and questioning whether the victim is a good guy, or making remarks that seem to amount to, “Oh well, that’s just how it goes, what did he expect”, or worse forms of statist apologism.

    The sex work rights movement certainly has its own issues and faults, but sex worker activists tend to be better about this kind of thing. When we hear about the cops arresting one of ours, the reaction is typically less along the lines of, “She was stupid, she shouldn’t have done ________”, or “Does this make her less of a leader in our movement?” and more like,”That’s horrible and fucked up! How can we help?”

    I’m glad Adam has been released, and only sorry I did not get around to making calls on his behalf to the relevant authorities in a timely fashion. Actually, if anyone does have their contact info please post it, as I’d still like to call and thank them for doing the right thing by letting him go – while also letting them know he never should have been abducted in the first place and that they should stop selling their souls for #GovernmentGreed.

  30. Starchild

    Just watched the video, and am glad to hear Adam say that he did have lots of support, including protesters at the facility where he was being held!

    From his remarks, it also sounds like Lane Akin, the sheriff of (ironically named) Wise County, Texas, is one of the government criminals who could use some people calling his office and letting them know what they think of his extortion racket.

    Looking up the info online, I found the Wise County sheriff’s website is http://sheriff.co.wise.tx.us/, and their phone is (940) 627-5971. There is also a Wise County Crime Stoppers Hotline, at (940) 627-8477, and a “web tips” line at (940) 627-5971. Or submit an anonymous crime tip here – https://www.tipsubmit.com/WebTips.aspx?AgencyID=541

  31. Andy

    Starchild said: “I’m glad Adam has been released, and only sorry I did not get around to making calls on his behalf to the relevant authorities in a timely fashion. Actually, if anyone does have their contact info please post it, as I’d still like to call and thank them for doing the right thing by letting him go – while also letting them know he never should have been abducted in the first place and that they should stop selling their souls for #GovernmentGreed.”

    His supporters paid a bail bondsman to bail him out of jail.

  32. DJ

    Andy: You don’t think that with the amount of activism that Adam Kokesh has done, and the number of times that he’s been arrested, that they don’t have files on him, and that these files are not passed around to different law enforcement agencies?

    Me: Like I said previously, I doubt we’ll even know the reason. We will hear justifiable excuses”

  33. dL

    The sex work rights movement certainly has its own issues and faults, but sex worker activists tend to be better about this kind of thing.

    True…until, of course, they formed the Sex Workers Party.

  34. DJ

    Starchild,
    From an outsiders perspective (me) let me assure you the room full of esoterics here can’t abide by anyone who doesn’t subscribe to the/an esoteric fallacy. Kokesh doesn’t have any admirers in this room, except Andy. (I don’t count because I don’t subscribe to the Party/group think). Just read the comments, which it appears you did- and tell the room, again, why you think they should show concern instead of the venomous animosity. But, be prepared to be ‘set straight’, the “groups” may send their best spokes persons to express an esoteric view of why you should re-think your beliefs.

  35. DJ

    CM: Whether the stop and search was motivated by politics or not (hint: it wasn’t),
    Me: You know this how?

    Second posting of the above- crickets.

  36. Andy

    PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE JAILED; CAMPAIGN TEAM BAILS HIM OUT FOR HIS SAFETY

    http://thefreedomline.com/2018/01/25/presidential-candidate-jailed-campaign-team-bails-him-out-for-his-safety/

    From the article: “Dallas, TX- Libertarian Presidential Campaign Team Remove Candidate from Jail After Safety Concerns Arise

    This past Tuesday January 16th, the first person to file a ‘A Statement of Candidacy’ with the FEC, to run for the highest office in the United States, Adam Kokesh, made his formal campaign announcement. Now nine days later, the campaign team made the executive decision to post bond and remove him from his confinement upon receiving information threatening his safety.

    Earlier this week Kokesh recorded a podcast from within the walls of his imprisonment demanding Sheriff Akin to release him. Over the last few days, there have been numerous threats made via social media that have been traced to what appears to be local law enforcement and today Kokesh received a note in his cell stating, ‘GET OUT NOW’.”

  37. Andy

    “paulie

    LOL. What statistics?”

    I am asserting that it is not the norm for a person to be pulled over twice within an hour, to be pulled over for going 9 mph over the speed limit on a highway, and, after being pulled over, to have drug sniffing dogs brought out.

    Lots of people drive 9 mph over the speed limit, and the vast majority of them do not get pulled over. Is it possible to get pulled over for this? Sure, it is just outside the norm.

    It is even more outside the norm for the police to bring in a drug sniffing dog. I bet the only reason they brought in the drug sniffing dog is because they read a file on him in their law enforcement database.

  38. paulie

    It’s not usual, but all of those things do happen. Personally, I have been pulled over twice in one hour and have had drug dogs called out on me or the people I was riding with a number of times. My parents were pulled over and ticketed for 5 miles over the limit on an interstate. So unusual, yes, but not unprecedented. Yes, it’s likely that they read a file on him, but it’s also likely that he “fit a profile” or gave off audiovisual clues that led them to suspect drug possession, I don’t know. In any case, if he was targeted you don’t really have to go beyond the fact that he had a number of prior drug arrests.

  39. Starchild

    DJ – I get a sympathetic vibe from your comments addressed to me (February 5, 2018 at 09:46), but I’m not sure I understand the point you’re trying to make.

  40. DJ

    Starchild, yes it is a sympathetic vibe.

    Starchild,
    From an outsiders perspective (me) let me assure you the room full of esoterics here can’t abide by anyone who doesn’t subscribe to the/an esoteric fallacy.
    …………………
    I don’t join groups therefore I’m an outsider.
    The arguments here are (mostly) of an esoteric nature which are fallacies in that they will never happen and tend to be divisive even among Libertarians….. who should have a common cause- freedom. Either everybody counts or nobody counts.
    …………………..
    Kokesh doesn’t have any admirers in this room, except Andy.
    …………………..
    Obvious.
    ………………….
    (I don’t count because I don’t subscribe to the Party/group think).
    ………………….
    See above comment on esoteric and I don’t subscribe to deferring my beliefs to another, regardless of the selling points. I am [l]ibertarian. I don’t need or want an esoteric definition to define what being free to choose means. I’m an advocate for the Individual in all matters. If said Individual causes harm to another he is to be punished (preferably by the offended or his/her family). Though I know that will never happen makes it a fallacy but it doesn’t warrant arguing about whose “brand” it agrees with or to what degree, which renders it an esoteric argument, and absolutely pointless. I subscribe to K I S S.
    …………………
    Just read the comments, which it appears you did- and tell the room, again, why you think they should show concern instead of the venomous animosity.
    ………………..
    Your comment was focused on what being libertarian (or human for that matter) is all about as opposed to the animosity displayed by the esoterics in the room.
    ………………..
    But, be prepared to be ‘set straight’, the “groups” may send their best spokes persons to express an esoteric view of why you should re-think your beliefs.
    …………………
    I’m surprised you’ve not been addressed “esoterically” trying to persuade you to see things their way, as that is what generally happens here.
    …………………

    I’ve been here only a few months and I find your commentary excellent, this one in particular.

  41. paulie

    I gave up on trying to make heads or tails of DJ’s incoherent drivel quite some time ago, and recommend others do the same.

  42. Starchild

    dL – In response to my comment that, “The sex work rights movement certainly has its own issues and faults, but sex worker activists tend to be better about this kind of thing”, you write, “True…until, of course, they formed the Sex Workers Party.”

    I’m not aware of a “Sex Workers Party”, and am guessing that you are alluding to the corrupting nature of electoral politics (i.e. if sex workers had their own political party, they would be just as quick to throw people under the bus for the sake of public image and trying to win votes).

    That may well be a factor. Thomas Jefferson once noted, “Whenever a man has cast a longing eye on offices, a rottenness begins in his conduct.”

    If that’s true on an individual level, consider the effects on an entire institution organized around the goal of winning political power! This is why I think it’s a good thing that the Libertarian Party of the United States is not organized around that goal – despite the efforts of some who’ve been seduced by the Ring of Power to have it be otherwise – but around the goal of a world set free in our lifetimes.

    We must not forget that winning in conventional terms and winning in libertarian terms aren’t the same thing. Winning in libertarian terms doesn’t mean Libertarians gaining power (and gradually becoming like the old boss, as the pigs in Orwell’s “Animal Farm”), but rather helping people awake to the meaning and hope of freedom and empowering each individual to reclaim his or her power that has been wrongfully usurped by those who would deny them that freedom.

  43. Starchild

    Apropos of this discussion, this story about sex workers protesting the Green Party in Australia for attempting to throw their rights under the bus by running an anti-sex-work candidate for a “winnable” seat:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-11/gilmore-greens-should-take-their-sex-work-principles-seriously/5881778

    https://sexliesducttape.me/2017/09/27/victorian-greens-still-failing-sex-workers/

    Libertarians should be better than this. We know (or should know) what power is, and be more mindful than others of the dangers of sacrificing our principles to it.

  44. DJ

    Starchild: DJ, thank you for your kind words. But I guess I’m a bit confused by your use of the term “esoteric” in this context.

    Me: The arguments over which brand of Libertarian should be the go to argument for a particular fallacy of what a few want society to be like = an esoteric view requires a knowledge of brand. (intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest) Just go read the ‘new record’ thread in its entirety, or any other lengthy thread. They’re all over the board with economics and borders and each requires a knowledge most don’t have and don’t care to have.

  45. DJ

    paulie: I gave up on trying to make heads or tails of DJ’s incoherent drivel quite some time ago, and recommend others do the same.

    Me: Of course.

  46. dL

    I’m not aware of a “Sex Workers Party”, and am guessing that you are alluding to the corrupting nature of electoral politics (i.e. if sex workers had their own political party, they would be just as quick to throw people under the bus for the sake of public image and trying to win votes).

    yes…

  47. dL

    I gave up on trying to make heads or tails of DJ’s incoherent drivel quite some time ago, and recommend others do the same.

    Well, my opinion of DJ’s commentary has changed…for the better

  48. paulie

    Well, my opinion of DJ’s commentary has changed…for the better

    Every once in a great while I read some of it by accident and it’s still not worth the effort to try to translate it into anything comprehensible for me, but YMMV and to each their own.

  49. Anthony Dlugos

    oof. I predict a desperate plea for money from this guy via YouTube sometime in early 2020, begging his supporters to get him to Austin so that he can “abolish the federal government.”

  50. DJ

    AD: oof. I predict a desperate plea for money from this guy via YouTube sometime in early 2020, begging his supporters to get him to Austin so that he can “abolish the federal government.”

    Me: And?

  51. paulie

    oof. I predict a desperate plea for money from this guy via YouTube sometime in early 2020, begging his supporters to get him to Austin so that he can “abolish the federal government.”

    Kokesh seems to have some money. Whether it’s family money, wealthy backers, or something else, he seems to at least have the means to get around.

  52. Anthony Dlugos

    Well, that’s possible. If that’s the case, I may be stuck buying our resident conspiracy theorist a lunch in 2020. No pictures, please.

  53. Starchild

    DJ writes (February 6, 2018 at 09:09) “The arguments over which brand of Libertarian should be the go to argument for a particular fallacy of what a few want society to be like = an esoteric view requires a knowledge of brand. (intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest)… They’re all over the board with economics and borders and each requires a knowledge most don’t have and don’t care to have.”

    This is why the Non-Aggression Principle is so important to the understanding and application of the libertarian message. While it’s always possible to go deeper into the study of virtually any subject, applying this principle to issues of economics and borders is for the most part quite simple and straightforward: Don’t initiate force or fraud. Far, far less esoteric than the kind of issues that you get into when you start wading into the swamp of centralized government planning.

  54. Andy

    This video is about Adam getting reunited with his dog after his recent arrest.

    Baloo’s back after being arrested! Reunited with his human for his birthday

  55. DJ

    Starchild: This is why the Non-Aggression Principle is so important to the understanding and application of the libertarian message. While it’s always possible to go deeper into the study of virtually any subject, applying this principle to issues of economics and borders is for the most part quite simple and straightforward: Don’t initiate force or fraud. Far, far less esoteric than the kind of issues that you get into when you start wading into the swamp of centralized government planning.

    Me: Don’t initiate force of fraud. Amen! Everybody counts or nobody counts.

    From an outsiders perspective the Party seems to have a problem with a non-aggression principle. I’ve seen it ridiculed often here, and it seems some have a problem with it personally (physically remove someone not liked found in the Vohra thread)- as a non-member libertarian who practices what I preach it would seem to me those who represent the Party (here) are missing the point of being libertarian and prefer “going deeper” over actual problem solving.

    I was thinking about this conversation yesterday and came to this conclusion.
    Faction = esoteric
    Esoteric = divisive
    Divisive = relegated to non-relevance in the political arena

    I think too, reality needs to be accepted and dealt with. Our life time (or our kids kids) will not see any major freedom enhancing actions from any political choice. (That’s not to say supporting a Libertarian candidate isn’t ‘a’ priority). The importance of being libertarian and of the Libertarian Party (IMO) is to sow the seeds of liberty. For everyone.

  56. itdoesntmatterttomuch

    Paulie said:” Kokesh seems to have some money. Whether it’s family money, wealthy backers, or something else, he seems to at least have the means to get around.”

    I read that he got the money from the Russians who paid Jonathan Brandis to fake his death.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *