February 2018 Open Thread

Welcome to this month’s edition of the open thread, our place for off-topic conversations, news tips, suggestions, discussions of stories. February opens with Facebook banning all cryptocurrency advertising, the LNC pursuing an apparent de facto partnership with Facebook to censure libertarian speech on the social media platform, and a released outer party memo alleging inner party surveillance of key Ingsoc members. In typical fashion, John McCain blames Emmanuel Goldstein.

116 thoughts on “February 2018 Open Thread

  1. Carol Moore/Secession.net

    This sounds like the beginning of a big circle jerk. So won’t follow it.

  2. Bondurant

    It’s a shame most people I know rely on Facebook as the only form of communication. I debate removing my page but never do so knowing that it will mean I cease to exist to many I know. Perhaps their not worth knowing and I should duck out anyway.

  3. dL Post author

    It’s a shame most people I know rely on Facebook as the only form of communication. I debate removing my page but never do so knowing that it will mean I cease to exist to many I know. Perhaps their not worth knowing and I should duck out anyway.

    Q: Why do people use facebook despite being fully aware it functions in part as a controlled surveillance platform?

    A: Avoiding it imposes a perceived social penalty

  4. Thomas L. Knapp

    Addtional answers:

    1) Using it brings a perceived social reward; and

    2) Most of the public Internet is full of hooks into the overall controlled surveillance platform anyway, and avoiding those hooks is a gigantic pain in the ass, so most people are just getting used to the idea of living in a panopticon no matter what they do. Which makes Facebook not really a bridge farther.

  5. George Phillies

    On the Arvin vote, both sides appear to be warming up fora holy war at the National Convention.

    An appropriate slogan that both sides seem to support is “Kill Them! Kill them all! God will sort them out!”

  6. Thomas L. Knapp

    I doubt there will be anything resembling “holy war.”

    My expectation is that if a credible opponent throws hat in ring, Mr. Vohra will not be re-elected as vice chair. Heck, I was prepared to take a hard, positive look at his one current opponent I know of until that opponent threw in with the Get Arvin Brigade. And if a better candidate does show up, I might be persuaded to vote for that candidate.

    So far, Mr. Sarwark doesn’t seem to have any credible opponents either.

    Usually in-between-convention dust-ups don’t seem to greatly affect LNC election outcomes. And with a couple of exceptions (Hagan and Harlos), this seems to have been a “usual suspects and their fuckery” affair.

    Harlos is probably safe because she used an “I am slavishly representing my region, when the chairs in that region start acting retarded I guess I have to act retarded with them” smokescreen.

    Hagan is probably safe because he has a well-earned reputation for integrity. I’m sorry he got conned, but I doubt anyone is going to hate him for it.

    And it’s likely that a small minority of delegates will have even heard about this crap, let alone formed an opinion on it, as of their arrival in New Orleans.

  7. Chuck Moulton

    I see Root’s Teeth Are Awesome has been duped by the pathological liars in the so-called Mises Caucus.

    In other news my Bastiat Caucus pledged to raise $100 million dollars to dig up Bastiat’s corpse, re-animate it, and pay his speaking fee, but the Libertarian Party refused to put Bastiat on their convention agenda and advertising because they hate liberty.

  8. Steven Berson

    Regarding a credible opponent to Arvin Vohra for LNC Vice Chair- Alex Merced has a long history working hard for the New York Libertarian Party, including doing a few well organized runs as a candidate for NYC local offices, and maintains an excellent social media presence – and to me would be a most excellent choice as Vice Chair – in particular because he knows how to maintain rhetoric that works to bring in more people towards pushing the ideals of liberty, not scare them away (as Vohra has done in a major way on two occasions during his term as Vice Chair). http://alexmerced.com & https://www.facebook.com/AlexMercedLP/ for more info.

  9. Thomas L. Knapp

    Root’s Teeth,

    A group offered to raise the money to bring Ron Paul as a speaker, then didn’t. At some point the convention committee chair said something like “well, I guess Paul’s out, then.” That’s all that happened. There was no “rejection” of Paul. You got conned.

    Pro tip: 99% of the time, that will be the case if your source is Liberty Hangout. The other 1% of the time is when the site doesn’t load correctly.

  10. Chuck Moulton

    It seems Alex Merced is associated with the Mises Caucus, which has publicly demonstrated it is full of pathological liars who will make up whatever bullshit they can if they believe it will further their agenda. There is zero chance I would ever vote for Alex Merced for LNC or NYC dog catcher.

  11. Bondurant

    Another reason to hate Facebook/social media: idiots are spreading the “Ron Paul banned from LP convention” bullshit. Huge difference between a ban and not wanting to pay a 5 digit speaking fee.

  12. George Phillies

    Michael, These appears to be appreciable overlap between one of those groups and the hooded key holders. Mind you, I am equally disimpressed with the other group.

  13. dL Post author

    2) Most of the public Internet is full of hooks into the overall controlled surveillance platform anyway, and avoiding those hooks is a gigantic pain in the ass, so most people are just getting used to the idea of living in a panopticon no matter what they do. Which makes Facebook not really a bridge farther.

    You don’t have to make it (real-time) easy for them. You wouldn’t get my politics if you rifled my smart phone and/or graphed my amazon profile or github account.

  14. Anon-Tipper

    Chuck Moulton: “It seems Alex Merced is associated with the Mises Caucus”

    Is this true? I thought he was pretty reasonable in his debate for comptroller, he seems more level headed than them. However, I’ve noticed that Ramsey is supporting him, it could be just his hatred of Vohra (I think Ramsey thinks that Vohra is running a pedo ring or something else really crazy). Hope this isn’t the case.

  15. dL Post author

    Chuck Moulton: “It seems Alex Merced is associated with the Mises Caucus”

    Endorsed by them.I don’t know if he is one. However, his views–to the extent that I’ve digested them– are too sympathetic to that point of view for my taste.

  16. dL Post author

    This sounds like the beginning of a big circle jerk. So won’t follow it.

    Look forward to seeing ya back in March!

  17. Andy

    “George Phillies
    February 4, 2018 at 00:18
    What are the views, DL, of the Mises caucus?”

    Here is the website for the LP Mises Caucus.

    http://lpmisescaucus.com/

    I spoke to Michael Heise yesterday. He said that members of the LP Mises Caucus generally agree, but that they do have some differences among their membership ranks as well.

  18. Thomas L. Knapp

    Merced disqualified himself as a candidate when he threw in with the Vohra witch hunt. I don’t claim to know whether he did so as a matter of appallingly poor general judgment, complete dishonesty, or laughably miscalculated political opportunism, but it was one, or a combination of, those three things.

  19. dL Post author

    What are the views, DL, of the Mises caucus?

    Merced, in a video on immigration, equally balanced the liberty to travel against human migration as suicide pact attractor. Human migration is not a suicide pact. A suicide pact is arguing that the State as a redistributive agent thusly confers it the authority to regulate every scintilla of human behavior.

    The Mises Institute, under the influence of Hoppe, has advanced the idea that the redistributive state opens up the question of libertarian violations being justified in the name of managing political competition.

    The Mises Caucus has openly engaged in behavior that suggests it is in the business of replacing LP leadership that is publicly at odds with Hoppean sympathies. So, George, if you want a LP chair to go on the right-wing talk circuit and sympathize with the notion that immigration is a suicide pact for the American way of life, throw in with the Mises Caucus.

  20. Anon-Tipper

    “Merced, in a video on immigration, equally balanced the liberty to travel against human migration as suicide pact attractor”

    Oh, so it’s confirmed, he’s a hoppean cultist, damn, another one.

  21. George Phillies

    dL I was thanking Andy for providing the link, since I was mildly curious as to what they stood for or who their candidates were. That does not mean that I support their stands or candidates. At this point they appear to have a Chair and a Vice Chair candidate. Given their Paul outburst, I am currently disinclined to support their people, though it depends who else is running. I can think of people who I am sure are even worse.

    Keep in mind that the LNC has no say in the platform.

  22. dL Post author

    Oh, so it’s confirmed, he’s a hoppean cultist, damn, another one.

    To be fair, I said he was sympathetic to it. For him, liberty of movement in the left hand weighs in at 1, suicide pact in the right weighs in at .9, so it tips in the favor of liberty of movement. But it’s real easy to tip that the other way.

    The proper argument is that lady liberty doesn’t hold out her hands. Liberty of movement is the default presumption(the torch). Suicide pact is laughed out of the court room(the middle finger)…

  23. George Phillies

    Behold the highly sensible statement of our National Chair on the Ron Paul issue:

    If Ron Paul decides he wants to attend the Libertarian Party national convention in New Orleans and speak, I’ll make sure he gets time on the stage.

    He’s a life member, former Presidential nominee, and Hall of Liberty award winner. It’s the least we can do if he’s able to attend the convention.

    The party never said no, that’s a lie being spread by some people trying to divide us.

  24. dL Post author

    since I was mildly curious as to what they stood for or who their candidates were.

    By their fruits(the shit they stir up), ye shall know them…

  25. Andy

    “dL Post author
    February 4, 2018 at 11:31
    ‘What are the views, DL, of the Mises caucus?’

    Merced, in a video on immigration, equally balanced the liberty to travel against human migration as suicide pact attractor”:

    So in other words, he’s got common sense.

    Swedish woman who believed in “equality” and open borders executed and beheaded in Africa

    http://diversitymachtfrei.blogspot.com.au/2017/05/swedish-woman-who-believed-in-equality.html

    From the article: “Zaida Catalán (6 October 1980 – March 2017) was a Swedish politician who was a member of the Green Party and leader of the Young Greens of Sweden between 2001 and 2005. She was known for her work in animal rights, equality and the sex purchase law (which she supported).

    Equality is one of the cornerstones of the Greens’ ideology. They promised equal pay for equal work, breaking gender segregation in employment, splitting parental leave into three parts (one for each parents and one freely transferable including to a third person close to the child), fighting violence against women, quotas for women on the boards of stock market-listed companies, investments in school health (to fight mental health problems), laws against sexist advertising which perpetuate gender norms, improving sex ed, improving support to people who have faced abuse and a law on gender mainstreaming.

    In line with this, the Greens are the most pro-immigration party, enthusiastically supporting open borders (or a world without borders). Its manifesto endorsed a liberalization of asylum laws (an automatic right to a permanent residence permit if an asylum seeker hasn’t been deported within 2 years, facilitating family reunification, people born and permanently residing in Sweden should automatically obtain citizenship); better integration (easier access to housing and jobs for new arrivals) and fighting discrimination.”

    Yeah, inviting hostile, violent people, many of whom hold Marxist and/or theorcratic ideologies, into the society where you live, and even enticing them to come in with government welfare money, is really going to make that society more free….not!

  26. Andy

    dL said: “The proper argument is that lady liberty doesn’t hold out her hands. Liberty of movement is the default presumption(the torch). Suicide pact is laughed out of the court room(the middle finger)”

    There is no liberty to movement on property that is already owned and occupied by other people. The present day USA is not an open frontier (there are over 325 million people here, and this is the 3rd most population country in the world). Those days ended a long time ago.

  27. paulie

    dL is correct. Freedom of movement applies to public spaces and property. No one is claiming freedom of movement on anyone’s personal property here. We just reject the absurd notion that the present day regime is the rightful owner of everything else and rightfully entitled to act is if some people are trespassing against it in entering spaces that seem to be open to all. We also reject the equally pernicious notion that it has some right to tell property owners who do in fact want certain people as employees, tenants, consumers, etc., that they can’t have them on their own property.

  28. paulie

    By rumor Sam Goldstein is running for Vice Chair. Trent Somes has a Facebook page up calling him a candidate, but that page has not been used recently.

    Somes has told me he is not running. I’ve seen something to the effect that Joe Hauptmann (IN) is running.

    I also something saying Somes resigned from LNC, but not on the LNC list. Anyone here know the facts?

  29. Andy

    “this is the 3rd most population country in the world”

    Should read, “this is the 3rd most populated country in the world…”

  30. paulie

    . Human migration is not a suicide pact. A suicide pact is arguing that the State as a redistributive agent thusly confers it the authority to regulate every scintilla of human behavior.

    Exactly!

  31. DJ

    Andy: Yeah, inviting hostile, violent people, many of whom hold Marxist and/or theorcratic ideologies, into the society where you live, and even enticing them to come in with government welfare money, is really going to make that society more free….not!

    Me: Inviting-enticing is not the same as not discouraging.

    Andy: many of whom hold Marxist and/or theorcratic ideologies, into the society where you live,

    Me: How many don’t? There are theocratic ideologies on many corners of many familial streets in America. They’re called church. Not that I agree with church theocracy, I don’t. I also don’t believe any entity or Individual has the right to restrict another based on hearsay (theocracy) or the fear (theocracy) of what ‘might’ happen. You’re advocating for what you want policed. That makes no sense.
    What ‘might’ happen is thought policing (see your argument about Kokesh being in jail for thought policing [files]), and thought policing isn’t inviting or enticing migration, though it is funded from the public coffers. However, it is, at this point in time less invasive than being shot, though that too happens with “thought police” who “fear” for their life. How free is that? How free is Kokesh? Can you say national ID card? Is that what you want? Will that guarantee your being free?

    The only thing that will make anybody (that society) more free is to be the example more free in “that society” on a large scale which can come from education founded in self evident Truth- “all men are created equal and have certain unalienable rights Endowed.” Truth is constant. Knowledge evolves. What was true yesterday is true today and will be true tomorrow.

  32. Andy

    “paulie
    February 4, 2018 at 15:39
    dL is correct. Freedom of movement applies to public spaces and property.”

    Only for the people who paid for the public property, as in the resident taxpayers (ie-the “citizens”) of the country. A person from say Pakistan, or China, or Saudi Arabia, or Russia, or Korea, or Brazil, or anywhere else, has no property claims in the USA. They can apply to become American citizens, and if they make it though the application and Naturalization process (which I think ought to be made more difficult), they can then gain the right to use the public property/commons (although I’d design the test so about 80% of those currently applying would would fail, because I want to keep out Marxists, theocrats, welfare leeches, and common criminals, and if they sneak in anyway I would not offer them, or any offspring they have, any taxpayer funded services, with the exception of deportation).

  33. Andy

    If a foreigner is visiting the USA on vacation, or they are here under a work VISA, they should be able to use the public commons/infrastructure while they are here, but this does not give them them same right to the public commons/infrastructure as do the resident taxpayers (ie-the “citizens” of the country).

    This is how the world is arranged right now, and if the society we live in was rearranged under the principles of anarcho-capitalism, the same function of regulating borders/migration would be performed by private property owners, like the condominium or apartment complex examples I provided in recent posts here, as well as past examples I gave about private cities (like my Disney World/Disney Land private city example).

  34. Chuck Moulton

    I have seen private confirmation from a LNC member that Sharpe and Somes resigned. It is very odd that this isn’t on the LNC business list though.

  35. paulie

    I saw screen shots on FB regarding Sharpe so I can confirm that one. This is now the second confirmation I got about Somes.

  36. DJ

    Andy: This is how the world is arranged right now

    Me: It is, whether you approve or not. Adapt or die.

    Why don’t you just come out and say what you’re inferring? IMO, what you’re saying is; Freedom is good as long as someone (many or a majority of like minded) says it’s okay, but, it’s not for everybody.
    Either everybody counts, or nobody counts.

  37. Steve m

    So there is a story going around about the ceo of Guinness the ceo of Miller and the ceo of Budweiser getting together for a drink. The Miller ceo ordered a Miller Lite. The Budweiser ceo ordered a bud lite. The ceo of Guinness ordered a coke. The ceos of miller and bud were shocked aren’t you going to have a beer they asked. To which the ceo Guinness replied if your not going to have a beer then nether am I.

    I used to think the libertarians were the Guinness party lots a flavor some what bitter but real.

    Now rhwy seem more like a bud lite. No taste unsatisfying.

  38. dL Post author

    I used to think the libertarians were the Guinness party lots a flavor some what bitter but real.

    The LP is not the end all or be all of libertarianism. The same incentive problems that infect other political parties will infect a libertarian political party, too(although granted, one would think those problems might be a bit more suppressed when you are only hovering around ~1%) .

  39. Steve m

    If the LP had been around in the mid 177os they would have taken a position against the Declaration of Independece as it beeing too inflamitory and they would have sencured Patrick Henry.

  40. steve m

    I need to stop using my cell phone or these comments… it only enables me to spell even worse…

    Look if the LP is going to just be a me too another lite beer then it will never go anywhere.

    If one lesson should be learned from Trump it is that if you take strong stances that make people sit up and go what did you say? Then you can get their attention and you have a very brief moment to get your message across.

    We need firebrands that raise difficult issues. Without them we are just bud lite. And going no where.

    Who besides Arvin is not bud lite in our party?

  41. Anon-Tipper

    dL:”To be fair, I said he was sympathetic to it. For him, liberty of movement in the left hand weighs in at 1, suicide pact in the right weighs in at .9, so it tips in the favor of liberty of movement. But it’s real easy to tip that the other way.”

    “Mises” Caucus must think they can either tip it or he’s the most sympathetic to their “cause.” tbh, anyone that they think is “good” we should be suspicious of since they’re dead set on shaping the LP in their own vision.

  42. Anon-Tipper

    Does anyone think that Liberty Hangout, 71 Republic, The Mises Caucus, and some of the white-nationalists in the FLP are connected in some way?

    They were all parroting the same story about the convention “controversy” with Ron Paul. Liberty Hangout still publishes pro-Augustus articles, they seem pro Mises Caucus. And 71R also has a lot of pro Mises Caucus, pro Joshua Smith, etc. stories. Liberty Hangout seems to think that there’s a pedo-ring in the LP, something Ramsey has been screaming about too. It’s just weird that they are seem to just say the same thing at the same time.

  43. paulie

    Crabby Abby Presents :

    The Dramatarians Guide to Surviving Drama

    Latest Libertarian kerfluffle got your knickers in your nanny? Crabby Abby tells us how to deal with the dish of the day :

    1. Shut it down by shutting off your phone and volunteer for your state or a campaign instead of QUITTING 4EVAR (FOR REAL THIS TIME!!!).

    2. Consider the source. Did you even pass 8th grade English? Stop squawking in all your favorite gossip groups and use common sense before giving more ad revenue to trolls (looking at you Liberty Hangout ?)

    3. Deep breaths. Surfacing for oxygen, always helps Crabby Abby remember the internet isn’t real life.

    4. Mad because the LNC won’t buy you a pony like our pal Vermin Supreme or put you on the campaign gravy train? That’s cute.

    5. Calm your tits. Abby’s tits are calm and yours can be too!

    Do you have burning questions? Need life advice? Want sagely input on someone or something? Inbox us and your question will be featured in Abby’s new monthly advice column!

  44. sludgepuppy

    I’m wondering if someone isn’t playing this to get control of the party because of ballot access the list of contributors, or something else?

  45. Anon-Tipper

    “I’m wondering if someone isn’t playing this to get control of the party because of ballot access the list of contributors, or something else?”

    Ballot access definitely. Also, I think, to gain legitimacy by using the libertarian label, since most other groups on the right (I know placing libertarians on the right isn’t exactly correct, depends on the person, etc. but I’m just going with the popular usage) are either intellectually bankrupt, or have damaged their own reputation. If you look at the Liberty Hangout staff page (who are pushing this), a lot of them are young conservatives/trumpkins. The rest are hoppean cultists/alt-righters pulling the old fascist trick of co-opting a label.

  46. paulie

    More from Dramatarians

    Hey Hey, Ho Ho, Hayes Has Got to GO!
    ~ by Snarky Mark

    Readers, I am furious. Furious! I am so mad I could spit fire. I’m madder than the time Birdy almost burned the entire office down.

    The other day we shared with you some revolting statements made by Daniel Hayes where he refused a kind and sincere request by the Libertarian Party Audacious Caucus to invite Libertarian activist and bitcoin expert MK Lords to speak and perform a strip tease at the 2018 Libertarian Party National Convention.

    Screen shots have recently surfaced showing Hayes denying other requests from party members. Not only does Hayes absolutely HATE Ron Paul AND MK Lords, but he apparently doesn’t care enough to bring Harambe back to life and pay a small number of bananas upfront to cover his speaking fee.

    This goes against the core of libertarianism itself! I am absolutely disgusted with the behavior of Hayes at this point. I can live without seeing Ron Paul speak for the 500th time (seriously, you can watch him for free on Facebook every day. Who cares), but MK Lords would be PERFECT and the Audacious Caucus would make sincere efforts to try to pay the party back eventually (maybe). What about Harambe as well? His speaking fee is a few bananas, but Hayes is too biased against Harambe to even consider.

    We hope that the Libertarian Party Mises Caucus will share our complete outrage over this and handle it with as much vigor as they have their fake Ron Paul prank.

    Why do you hate MK Lords and Harambe, Hayes? We demand answers! Our readers should as well. Please message Hayes and demand MK Lords and Harambe speak at the 2018 convention, or else. Send us your screenshots.

    #ousthayes #OustHayes #unseathayes #UnseatHayes

  47. paulie

    Dramatarians
    16 hrs ·
    Don’t you DARE call Liberty Hangout Alt Right or they will unleash their triggertarian TJ Roberts and sue you, The Jack News!

    Anarchyball came by to say “well they aren’t wrong”. After Christopher “Making White Babies is What We Fight For” Rachles/Radical Capitalist said he was an Alt Right Hoppean AnCap (we still are unsure as to what that is), Moldow said he couldn’t find anything to disagree with Rachels on.

    We anxiously await the lawsuit. Whatever you do, don’t call them Alt Right. So, for example: Liberty Hangout is Alt Right. Liberty Hangout supports the Alt Right. Liberty Hangout are Alt Right; don’t say any of that……. or else!

    I guess we’ll get a legal notice soon enough. ~ Snarky Mark

  48. paulie

    Dramatarians
    February 4 at 5:30pm ·
    The Mises Caucus…. sans the Mises
    ~ by Snarky Mark

    Andy Craig for Congress recently posted some screen shots showing odd statements from the Libertarian Party Mises Caucus. Since their founding, the caucus has been rumored to be a group of nationalists that adore Hans-Hermann Hoppe and have more in common with “Radical Capitalist” than Ludwig von Mises.

    As they move forward, trying to oust those that espouse nationalistic beliefs, it seems that they do not share the beliefs of Mises. Here we can see a side by side from Craig, with his words that reflect Mises, and the Mises Caucus rejecting them.

    Has the Mises Caucus actually read Mises? If not, then who?

    https://www.facebook.com/dramatartians/photos/a.1535123303186081.1073741828.1535067816524963/1791726177525791/?type=3

  49. paulie

    Dramatarians
    February 4 at 1:30pm ·
    BREAKING! Pro Trump Bordertarians Liberty Hangout Endorse Chair Candidate!
    ~ by Snarky Mark

    A few hours ago we shared a tweet from Liberty Hangout, the notorious fakertarians that brought you such hits like “our goal is simple: to infiltrate the LP and make it right wing” and “if you don’t like Trump, you’re probably a communist” (see here: https://tinyurl.com/y7ynbm3k).

    Now the Alt Right group has come out and directly expressed their support for Joshua Smith For LNC Chair 2018. This is a strange alliance, to be sure. Smith – and the Libertarian Party Mises Caucus which he isn’t-a-part-of-but-in-but-not – promotes himself saying that the LP needs to be principled. If this is so, then why does Mr. Smith support the endorsement of an Alt Right group that was the #1 reason for the creation of the page Fakertarians? (lest one believe that Mr. Smith does not accept the support of Liberty Hangup, we have screen shots that show he is not opposed)

    Why would Mr. Smith accept the endorsement of a Pro Trump group that until just last week employed skin heads and were making inroads with white nationalists? Is there something Mr. Smith is hiding about his beliefs? Or is this an alliance that is only skin deep in an attempt to remove a mutual enemy (Sarwark)?

  50. paulie

    Dramatarians shared Finley Collins’s note.
    January 28 at 6:37pm ·
    Third time, and we’ll keep reposting it until the Radical Capitalist frog army stops snowflaking. Keep honking, we’re reloading. Share this in every group since they’re so determined that no one sees it.

    Snowflaked, Degenerate, and Laid Bare!
    ~ by Snarky Mark

    Just an hour ago, our newest editor wrote a great piece about the latest drama about Christopher Chase Rachels of the white power Alt Right blog Radical Capitalist. Immediately, it was removed and thrown down the Facebook memory hole. CCR and his army of Green Men can try to remove this, but we will make backups, and will distribute it even more this time. No one takes our articles down. No one.

    THAT SAID… BREAKING NEWS!!

    A former lover of Rachels (a Female to Male transgender) has written in detail about Rachels’ past, his obsession with IQ, genetics, and making babies, and his long history of supporting white supremacy (it was just more low-key until the rise of Trump and the Alt Right). The full note, can be found here: https://www.facebook.com/notes/finley-collins/what-i-know-about-ccr/1596727760362637/. An archived version of the post (which will not go away no matter how hard Rachels and his Green Army of Snowflakes try) can be found here: http://archive.is/kau1M

    This isn’t new for Rachels. Previously, Fakertarians had broken a story – later confirmed by Rachels – that he had a child out of wedlock with a woman who was in a relationship (he was sexually active with both male and female partners of the relationship). This child has since been abandoned by Rachels, claiming that the mother wants nothing to do with him and it’s okay because there is a man in the child’s life. Likewise, Rachels’ friend and associate Jared Howe has recently had a child out wedlock……. this is what they call “degeneracy”..

  51. Bondurant

    @ steve m

    I believe the key to Trump’s success was a crowded GOP primary and the overtly corrupt DNC. If Trump had gone independent, third party or if the GOP had wised up earlier or if the Democrats went with anyone other that Hillary, I’d wager Trump is not president today.

  52. Anon-Tipper

    We really need to do more to push out the alt-right. What sort of mechanisms are there in the LP to prevent them from installing their own puppet (Joshua Smith)? Should the LP have “official” and “unofficial” designations for caucuses? Should people associated with the LPMC be denied LP membership? Should more dramatic (i.e. disaffiliation) actions be taken against the FLP? Is the process to become a delegate restrictive enough to keep most/all of the LPMC members out? We absolutely need to come up with strategies. What are some solutions people here have thought of?

  53. Gina

    How about spiking all their drinks with ex lax at the convention? Itchy powder in their shorts?

  54. George Phillies

    2018 LSLA Conference
    Denver, Colorado
    March 24, 2018
    Full Day Candidate/Activist Training Session

    Please circulate news to Libertarian contacts

    In collaboration with the Libertarian Party of Colorado, the Libertarian State Leadership Alliance presents our first 2018 Conference. The LPCO is kindly handling the site, tickets, meals, and is providing most of the panels in conjunction with their 2018 state convention.

    Candidate Training by Larry Sharpe
    Saturday, all day

    Saturday Afternoon – Hour Panels:
    Alternative Paths to a Libertarian Future (George Philllies, David Demarest)
    Building a County Affiliate — Wayne Harlos
    Approval Voting – A Better Way to Make Group Decisions (Frank Atwood/Blake Huber)
    Nuts and Bolts of a Colorado Candidacy (Kim Tavendale)
    Regulatory Barriers to Running a Small Business (Susan Kochevar) (Title TBC)
    Building a Libertarian Base (Laura Ebke) (Title TBC)
    Marijuana, PTSD and the Opioid Crisis (Todd Mitchem/Matt Kahl/Third Speaker TBC)
    Topic TBC (Trevor Burrus from Cato)

    The hotel is the DoubleTree in Thornton, Colorado. Thornton is a northern suburb of Denver. The hotel is immediately off I-25, about 22 miles (40 minutes) from the airport. Street address: 83 East 120th Avenue.

    Special Room rates have been arranged.
    http://doubletree.hilton.com/en/dt/groups/personalized/D/DENTNDT-LIB-20180323/index.jhtml?WT.mc_id=POG

    Ticket prices
    For Tickets: http://store.lpcolorado.org/

    Candidate Training and Panels only—$10
    Saturday Lunch—$50 (keynote: Senator Laura Ebke)
    Saturday Banquet—$70 (Libertarian entertainment featuring Larry Sharpe, Nick Sarwark, and Laura Ebke. )
    Saturday All Day—$125

  55. Anon-Tipper

    Gina:”How about spiking all their drinks with ex lax at the convention? Itchy powder in their shorts?”

    Yeah, forget what I said, let’s just do that!

    George:”Approval Voting”

    Glad that this type of voting is being discussed, seems to work better than rank choice. It’s easier for the voter, has a higher voter satisfaction rating, and can support more than two parties. From what I understand, rank choice can’t really support more than two, and can result in non-optimal (compared to approval) outcomes when a third party has sufficient support.

  56. George Phillies

    I am not sure why anyone thought I was advocating approval voting, which does not work in the real world.

    Very rapidly, voters realize that the way to win an approval voting contest is the BULLET BALLOT–you vote for only one candidate. Note that there has been an LP NatCon vote using approval voting, and someone last time got up and whined at people to vote for lots of candidates. As he did not add “…because otherwise it will be painfully obvious that approval voting is a worthless crock…”

  57. Anon-Tipper

    I was responding to this part of your comment, I didn’t assume you were advocating for it:
    “Approval Voting – A Better Way to Make Group Decisions (Frank Atwood/Blake Huber)”

    “which does not work in the real world.”
    “Very rapidly, voters realize that the way to win an approval voting contest is the BULLET BALLOT–you vote for only one candidate.”

    This is not true on average. There’s been a number of studies done on approval showing better results on average than plurality:

    https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,33&qsp=1&q=%22approval+voting%22+elections

    A conclusion from one study in the google scholar results:
    “We analyze 10 three-candidate elections (and mock elections) conducted under approval voting (AV) using a method developed by Falmagne and Regenwetter (1996) that allows us to construct a distribution of rank orders from subset choice data … On the basis of these distributions of preferences we find strong evidence that AV would have selected Condorcet winners when they exist and would have always selected the Borda winner. Thus, we find that AV is not just simple to use, but also gives rise to outcomes that well reflect voter preferences.”

  58. Anon-Tipper

    * It’s vulnerable to bullet voting, but on average produces “better” (as in higher voter satisfaction) results.

  59. Chuck Moulton

    I agree with George. Approval voting is a terrible way to vote on candidates. Single transferable voting or cumulative voting would be far better for multi-member district elections — like LNC at-large or JC.

    However, approval voting is appropriate for voting on things like convention locations and meeting times/days.

  60. Anon-Tipper

    “Single transferable voting or cumulative voting would be far better for multi-member district elections”

    I didn’t know George was talking about multiple winner voting situations, he didn’t say that in his comment, he condemned approval for any voting situation, which is just untrue.

    But I agree that those methods seem to work better for multi-seat elections.

  61. Steven Wilson

    Missouri State LP Convention
    Feb 24, 8:00am
    Double Tree by Hilton
    $50 early bird, Feb 14
    $60 at the door
    We will nominate US senator and state auditor candidates. Arvin Vohra is scheduled to speak. We should have quite a few candidates this year; myself included. If you care to join us in Jefferson City, please come. 12 rooms have been made available at a special rate. Donations will go to filing fees for all candidates.

    Any questions,
    Contact Email: RickVandeven@sbcglobal.net
    Contact Name: Rick Vandeven
    Contact Phone: 573-318-5564

    Steven

  62. Anon-Tipper

    https://niskanencenter.org/blog/future-liberalism-politicization-everything/
    “the facile “libertarian” argument that asserts freedom of expression is a “negative right” distinct from the “privilege” conferred by, say, voting or marriage rights. Instead, universal suffrage, marriage equality, and freedom of expression all derive from the same mechanics explained above”

    I’ve never heard a non-paleo assert something like gay marriage wasn’t a rights issue, it’s been on the LP platform since the founding. tbh, I just hate read Hammond now, I really don’t know why he insists on libertarian = paleo.

  63. Anon-Tipper

    “I have seen approval voting in action. Very rapidly, most voters in a somewhat partisan community use the bullet ballot.”

    Yes, it’s definitely not perfect, it’s just on average has better results than plurality. (I mentioned it earlier, but I agree with Chuck on the other voting systems for the multi-seat elections). I’ve heard that score can perform better than approval, but I imagine that with highly partisan people they’ll just assign a score to their party. I’m not confident that we can improve voting much more than the current system.

  64. George Phillies

    For electing multiple people, multiple cycles of STV work very poorly–I had to count this for Faculty elections. The Cambridge MA system, while slightly hard to explain actually works decently well.

  65. paulie

    LIBERTARIAN VICE CHAIRMAN CANDIDATE DEBATE
    Sponsored by 71 Republic
    Candidates attending:
    Arvin Vohra
    Alex Merced
    Joe Hauptmann
    Joe Paschal
    James Weeks
    Steve Scheetz
    Moderated by:
    Matt Geiger
    Andrew Zirkle
    Time:
    Saturday, February 10th, 7 PM EST – 8:30 PM EST
    How to watch:
    At the start of the debate, click the link below:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKu8zPQj_8w
    Can I submit questions to be asked?
    Yes, email 71republicco@gmail.com with your question, and we will try to fit it in.

  66. Carol Moore/Secession.net

    Crane was very sexy in the 1970s-early 80s and easily got women. Once he got bloated and older and married, he obviously stopped having as much luck.

  67. Thomas L. Knapp

    “I’m wondering if someone isn’t playing this [Mises Caucus, etc.] to get control of the party because of ballot access the list of contributors, or something else?”

    That’s one possibility.

    Another, if we want to go “conspiracy theory” on it, is that it’s a government COINTELPRO provocateur project aimed at keeping the party ineffectual by fomenting internal arguments that marginalize the organization because one side of them is so obviously Cuckoo for Coco Puffs that any party taking it seriously is by definition dumb.

    Anecdotal evidence for that proposition: The most obviously likely government provocateur mole in the LP if there are any, Andy Jacobs, has gone all in on deranged Hoppebotism in preference to his previous attempts at making the LP look like a bunch of fucking idiots (e.g. “anyone who doesn’t believe that 9/11 was an inside job just because there’s no evidence that it was is a FOOL” and “every mass shooting is a government false flag attack using paid actors”).

  68. Andy

    Hey Tom, I have been in the LP for a long time, and I have associated with a lot of party members, so it is rather telling that none of the people who actually know me in person are saying this.

    If were a part of some nefarious plot why have I been the chief person blowing the whistle on the fact that most of the people the LP hires to gather ballot access signatures are not even libertarians, and that some of the people misrepresent the party to the public (either because they are dishonest, ignorant, or both), and that Libertarians should get up off of their asses and get their own signatures (whether for pay or as unpaid volunteers), rather than needlessly funneling the in person field outreach work out to people who don’t give a rat’s ass about the Libertarian Party or libertarianism?

    Why would I promote jury nullification of victimless crimes?

    Why would I advocate that Libertarians work to elect a Libertarian Sheriff and implement the Deputize ‘Em plan, that is appointing Libertarians as deputies?

    Why would I promote cryptocurrencies and gold & silver?

    Why would I have turned down so much campaign work for anti-liberty causes over the years that it has caused me to be in a much less comfortable financial situation than I would be otherwise (ask Paul Fankel or Jake Witmer if you do not believe me)?

    Why would I have enthusiastically supported Harry Browne and Michael Badnarik, but I did not support Bob Barr and Gary Johnson (of course, anyone who thinks that Barr and Johnson really represented libertarianism may disagree with me, but I do not care what those people think)?

    I have busted my ass for the Libertarian Party and movement for years. I am far more skeptical of the people who sit on the sidelines doing little to no real world activism, and who put down down those who do.

  69. Thomas L. Knapp

    Andy,

    You ask “If were a part of some nefarious plot … ?”

    I didn’t say you are. I’m just saying that if such a nefarious plot exists, you are the most likely suspect.

    “why have I been the chief person blowing the whistle on the fact that most of the people the LP hires to gather ballot access signatures are not even libertarians”

    Another way of phrasing that question would be “why have you been the chief person demanding that the LP increase the costs of, and decrease the effectiveness of, its ballot access efforts by restricting the supply of a particular service to those who pass an ideological test, rather than focusing entirely on who can get the job done most quickly, most cheaply, and most effectively?”

    There are several possible answers to that question, only one of which is that your’e a saboteur. It could be rent-seeking (the more artificially restricted the supply, the more you can charge as one of the suppliers pre-qualified by your suggested regulation). It could be simple economic idiocy. It could be self-imposed ideological blindness. It could be a specific intention to harm the party. Or it could be some combination of those.

    “Why would I have enthusiastically supported Harry Browne and Michael Badnarik, but I did not support Bob Barr and Gary Johnson”

    For the same reason that any provocateur will spend a certain amount of time establishing credibility before getting to work on the sabotage.

    But, once again, I am not saying you are a government mole. You could just be a crank or an idiot. But if there is a government mole, your actions make you the most likely suspect.

  70. dL Post author

    Crane was very sexy in the 1970s-early 80s and easily got women. Once he got bloated and older and married, he obviously stopped having as much luck.

    Isn’t Crane the progenitor of libertarianism for the serious people? Well, the problem, Ed, is that what is respectable to the cocktail circuit today can often change to tomorrow’s pariah. And now Crane/Cato are the embarrassments. And no one–yesterday, today or tomorrow–will ever have have to respond to an inquiry about James Weeks with the lines “I’m sorry, I can’t comment on alleged cases or remedies” or “Cato now has strict title VII compliant sensitivity programs in place.”

  71. DJ

    TK: You ask “If were a part of some nefarious plot … ?”

    I didn’t say you are. I’m just saying that if such a nefarious plot exists, you are the most likely suspect.

    Me: Why? Because you disagree with him on some issues? As on outsider I can easily say, all of you look guilty. And for the record I don’t agree with Andy’s stance on immigration. There is, however, plenty of evidence that 9/11 was a set up by other than those accused. Denying it makes one look like an apologist for the status quo. Pro or con doesn’t equate (IMNSHO) to a nefarious plot as an infiltrator, but I’d be much more concerned about a denier. I’d also say that all the esoteric socio-economics discussions are far more harmful to the Party since none of them will ever happen (and do require more in depth understanding= esoteric = outsiders won’t understand), but are discussed as though they may/could. You’d all be better off to focus on true nefarious perpetrators who will ensure and insure and change of substance will never occur; That which you know exists- not what you wish would exist- In fighting and accusations prove nor help anyone or anything. “Putting out others light doesn’t make your’s shine brighter”.

  72. Thomas L. Knapp

    DJ,

    No, not because I disagree with him on some issues. Because he consistently picks out the issue that would seem most likely to damage and embarrass any party associated with it, and tries to associate that issue with the Libertarian Party.

    If we’re going to assume that the LP is infiltrated by government moles — and Andy leans hard toward that assumption — then it follows that we should use standard criteria to figure out who those moles are.

  73. DJ

    TK,
    Why bother with it? Unless they (moles) are in a majority all they can do is disparage. BFD. It’s not like there’s none occurring already (factions in the Party). People are going to think/believe what they think/believe, but, those can be influenced in the negative a lot easier than influencing in the positive. Attacking each other in public is a negative influence easily picked up on by everyone (including moles) adding fuel to an already existing negative fire.

    Preach freedom! Always and forever. If people don’t believe it, lead by example and ignore those who choose (or are differently influenced) to follow the nefarious and blatant path to serfdom. Andy has very little influence (except on creating personal attacks from Party members). He is one person.

  74. Andy

    The Libertarian Party is already infiltrated with government plants, and has been since its inception (according to FOIA requests I have heard about from multiple people, including one from 1978 California gubernatorial candidate, and 1980 presidential candidate, Ed Clark). Unfortunately the names of the plants were redacted and nobody bother to do any follow-up investigation. I would have loved to see the rats get outted.

    The establishment clearly upped its infiltration and sabotage game against the LP in the last three presidential elections, due to the growth of the internet and the Ron Paul r3VOLution making libeetarianism more popular, which is why the LP has ended up with such lame candidates who were not really libertarian in those elections.

    The establishment fears an effective Libertarian Party.

    If anyone thinks this is far fetched, keep in mind that the government has already been caught spying on and infiltrating groups that are smaller than the LP.

  75. George Phillies

    Actual Florida vote totals
    Actual Florida vote totals

    Democrat: Margaret Good – 23,054 Votes.

    Republican: James Buchanan – 19,796 Votes.

    Libertarian: Alison Foxall – 1,338 Votes.

  76. Anon-Tipper

    “For electing multiple people, multiple cycles of STV work very poorly–I had to count this for Faculty elections. The Cambridge MA system, while slightly hard to explain actually works decently well.”

    Sorry this reply is kind of late, but thanks I haven’t heard of the Cambridge one before.

  77. Anon-Tipper

    Looks like Marion Marechal-Le Pen is invited to CPAC, another example of why we need to extract ourselves from the right.

  78. paulie

    another example of why we need to extract ourselves from the right.

    They are legion. I’m not sure that anyone who fails to see these myriad reasons already can be convinced by anything whatsoever.

  79. Anon-Tipper

    You’re right, they’re quite attached to the right or it’s more, they’re anti-left to the point of lunacy. The LP should try to get Gary Johnson to not attend (he’s an invited speaker), we really don’t need to go down this path with the right.

  80. paulie

    Johnson emphasized a lot of issues which libertarians and the left share more so than libertarians and the right, though. It’s true he was a Republican governor but within the LP and l-movement he is relatively left-leaning.

    For a better illustration, see how much more skepticism Cynthia McKinney is getting now that she has converted to the LP as opposed to for example Bob Barr or Wayne Root when they were (temporarily) in the LP.

  81. dL Post author

    For a better illustration, see how much more skepticism Cynthia McKinney is getting now that she has converted to the LP as opposed to for example Bob Barr or Wayne Root when they were (temporarily) in the LP.

    Root is the gift that keeps on giving…

  82. Anon-Tipper

    “Johnson emphasized a lot of issues which libertarians and the left share more so than libertarians and the right, though. It’s true he was a Republican governor but within the LP and l-movement he is relatively left-leaning.”

    Oh no, I meant he’s invited to be a speaker at CPAC, I’m worried about libertarians continued association with the right by attending their conferences.

    “For a better illustration, see how much more skepticism Cynthia McKinney is getting now that she has converted to the LP as opposed to for example Bob Barr or Wayne Root when they were (temporarily) in the LP.”

    And it seems she has voted more in favor of libertarian positions when in office than either of them, from what I know.

  83. Anon-Tipper

    I don’t think Johnson was too right, but was commenting on him being invited to CPAC and how conservatives continue to invite us (in general) to their events, and maybe we should be way more skeptical before accepting a speaking invitation or attending such an event so we don’t get caught up in the right’s nonsense. I have no idea if that makes any sense.

  84. paulie

    And it seems she has voted more in favor of libertarian positions when in office than either of them, from what I know.

    Root was never in office. If he had been I’m sure you would be correct.

  85. paulie

    If you actually mean skeptical I think we were a majority. I know some of the people who voted for them were skeptical but got talked into it, or decided that Ruwart was even worse than Barr, or that once Barr was nominated it did not matter who the VP would be, and so on. I guess you can say they were skeptical, but not skeptical enough.

  86. dL Post author

    If you actually mean skeptical I think we were a majority. I know some of the people who voted for them were skeptical but got talked into it, or decided that Ruwart was even worse than Barr, or that once Barr was nominated it did not matter who the VP would be, and so on. I guess you can say they were skeptical, but not skeptical enough.

    I can still recall the Georgia delegation on CSPAN commending Root–after securing the VP nomination– for “saving the party.”

  87. dL Post author

    Oy vey. That would work out really well.

    In the parallel universe where Johnson/Weld win the presidency, Romney would have been all over that. Essentially, a de facto Romney staffed administration. The poor libertarian saps in that universe are now dealing with the consequences of libertarianism eternally discredited. Libertarian==flip flopping republican with a hand out for a corporate subsidy.

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