Far right Christian Nationalist “Texas Freedom Party” making play to take over Libertarian Party of Texas at county conventions today

Texas state law lays out a multi-step process by which delegates are chosen to the national convention from the state convention of every state-recognized party, to the state convention (Apr 13-15 in Houston) from county conventions being held throughout Texas today, to those from precinct conventions which had already been held, etc.

Video of the Harris County (Houston area) convention is live at Clayton Hunt For Texas House District 145 on facebook. It had been my intention to liveblog this meeting but due to a combination of vehicular issues and computer problems, the coverage will be as best I can provide. Help from others will be welcome in the comment section here.

Kathie Glass, two-time LPTx nominee for Governor now seeking her third nomination, is according to my sources on the side of the Texas Freedom Party and its effort to radically change the platform of the Texas LP. I have not had an opportunity to ask Ms. Glass whether this is true. Clarification is welcome in the comments.

So far watching Clayton Hunt’s video I have observed Kathie Glass win over LNC region rep Whitney Bilyeu 37-19 for county chair, some wrangling over voting procedures and secrecy, and my understanding that as I type this delegates to the state convention are being voted on. A ten minute recess just started and the meeting is scheduled from 10-4 central time today, so we are still in the first hour, but I don’t know if the time allotted will be used up. Further blogging will take place in the comment section.

105 thoughts on “Far right Christian Nationalist “Texas Freedom Party” making play to take over Libertarian Party of Texas at county conventions today

  1. paulie Post author

    Tom Glass, husband of Kathie, wins with 39 votes for Treasurer. I missed who ran against him, how many votes that person got, the race for Secretary and the tiebreaker or second round for Vice Chair due to computer issues. Someone please fill this in when you get a chance.

  2. paulie Post author

    Kerfuffle between Glasses and Clayton Hunt – Glasses will NOTA Hunt because he has them blocked on FB and because he will not promise to “not pull a or celebrate” a “James Weeks,” referring to the national convention striptease. Hunt responds by talking about other things James Weeks does such as working as the campaign manager for a LP candidate who is getting international press attention for proposing arming the homeless and refuses to renounce Weeks.

  3. paulie Post author

    Glass says another candidate who is not there has withdrawn. Does not provide proof, says people will just have to take her word for it.

  4. paulie Post author

    Clayton Hunt clarifies he will not personally strip or do things to embarrass the party and is nominated. Says his audaciousness consists of taking consistent libertarian stances.

  5. Anon-Tipper

    I had linked this story from the Liberty Vindicator (or something like that) in the open thread. Does it look like this is an actual real story? Wow, fuck off right-wingers.

  6. paulie Post author

    Yes, it’s a real story. I have more than what I published so far. I will get to it when I get a chance. I missed your posting in open thread as I was sick for a few days and went to the hospital passing a kidney stone after spending several days in bed with the flu and moving to Texas, would you post it here too?

  7. paulie Post author

    Thanks for the link. Definitely feel better health-wise and have a ton of crap online to catch up on. Having some other issues, the van probably blew a head gasket and the RV most likely engine rod thru engine. Both at mechanics and will get damage reports early next week. In the meantime the Jamesons and Papa Johns diet is keeping me alive and healthy as ever.

  8. Jill Pyeatt

    I’ve heard that Kathie Glass is a problem for a few years now.

    The hubris of those people thinking they can walk right in and take over! It’s sickening.

  9. paulie Post author

    The hubris of those people thinking they can walk right in and take over! It’s sickening.

    They can if they have the numbers. There are over 250 counties in Texas and this is just one of them, but less than a hundred have any LP presence at all and all or almost all the others are smaller than Harris County. In a month we will see if they have enough numbers to take over at the state level and in late June/early July we will see the same thing at the national level.

  10. Anthony Dlugos

    its disturbing and disappointing, but long-term, I don’t see it being a problem. These people can’t be the smartest tools in the shed there is already a far bigger, richer party for many of their positions (GOP), and the ones the GOP doesn’t subscribe to (secession) are sheer lunacy and guaranteed keep their fiefdom small, and easily recaptured.

    In other words, if these were companies, their far right-wing startup has limited appeal and a larger, better known, richer competitor. A moderately libertarian message/platform has massive appeal and no competitors.

    Like any market, long-term victory of the latter is inevitable.

  11. Jill Pyeatt

    What part of Texas did you move to, Paulie? Do you plan to be there for a while?

    I wouldn’t expect this plan to work. At least, I hope not.

    We’ve had some takeover nonsense in CA, but it appears to have been completely unsuccessful.
    We’ll probably have some drama at our next convention, but I doubt if they’ll succeed there, either.

  12. paulie Post author

    What part of Texas did you move to, Paulie? Do you plan to be there for a while?

    Greenville, TX about an hour east of Dallas at the moment. My tentative plans include Oklahoma convention at the end of March, Louisiana convention in the NO area the week after that, Houston for the LPTX convention the week after that and Denver/LNC the week after that. Then New Orleans again for national. At some point will probably need to go by Wichita Falls if and when the other RV is fixed. If there’s time may spend some time in or around Austin, Ft Worth or both. Other than that not sure. I do still have stuff and family in Alabama but I brought enough of my stuff and with intention to stay here indefinitely enough to justify calling it a move. But I am bouncing around within and near Texas so my snail mail still goes to Alabama for now.

  13. Jill Pyeatt

    Good luck there! My friends Ted and Laura Brown just moved to Austin.

    I used to think I could live in Texas, but now I just don’t know. I’m committed to my job for maybe another 5 years, and then I’ll consider leaving CA. Another of my friends moved to Florida. I visited there last month and liked it.

    I will be attending the CA convention late April, and will try to do some live-blogging there.

  14. dL

    its disturbing and disappointing, but long-term, I don’t see it being a problem.

    In other words, if these were companies, their far right-wing startup has limited appeal and a larger, better known, richer competitor. A moderately libertarian message/platform has massive appeal and no competitors.

    What kind of business nonsense is this? If, say, Taco Bell had a franchise caught serving dog shit in the meat–even for a non-corporate owned franchise located in bumfuck nowhere–it would have devastating consequences on the overall corporate brand.

    It was trivial to predict that weakening the platform and running GOP retreads would open the party up to this kind of garbage from the far right. Just as it is easily predictable that moderates and pragmatics serve up only a maginot line defense against it.

  15. Andy

    I’d wager that this party is not even close to being big enough, or organized enough, to take over the LP.

    I’d be far more concerned about the mainstream political establishment types and government spooks who successfully hijacked the last three LP presidential tickets.

  16. Joe Wendt

    So, the alt-right took over the LPF and now the far right is taking over Texas. Libertarians better wake up.

  17. paulie Post author

    So, the alt-right took over the LPF and now the far right is taking over Texas. Libertarians better wake up.

    Yep.

  18. paulie Post author

    I’d wager that this party is not even close to being big enough, or organized enough, to take over the LP.

    Wager…based on what? It seems to be a serious concern for those who are active in LPTX and keeping a close eye on what is going on with the precinct and county conventions. I’m guessing you are not doing that.

  19. Carol Moore/Secession.net

    Hopefully we’ll get a good summary of what happened in all the counties soon.

  20. Bondurant

    Tommy Attaway drinks Coco-Cola, appears on internet talk shows that garner under 20 views on YouTube, publishes electronic books and claims to have been on Perot’s campaign staff in ’92.

    Maybe there’s more to this guy than meets the eye but I have doubts he has enough clout to takeover the LP in Texas.

  21. Carol Moore/Secession.net

    OK. Went to TX LP FB page. Here’s one interesting report. Someone else can figure out over all picture, or it may be reported here at some point: https://www.facebook.com/groups/txlibertarian/

    Bobby Condon wrote Sunday AM 3/18 on FB (and hopefully most meetings went this well):

    I’d like to speak out about my county’s personal experience with FTPP aka “the group trying to take over the party”. I’m in Brazoria county, we had a higher number of new members from or affiliated with FTPP show up for precinct and county conventions than anywhere else I’ve heard of. In fact they made up 11 of the 20 voters present at convention. They had the numbers, they could have taken the county leadership as well as all delegates and alternates. There was nothing “we” could do to stop them.

    But you know what, it didn’t happen. We took the time to meet with each other, to talk and to learn. We discussed similarities and difference and in the end voted as a cohesive county to elect 2 FTPP delegates & 2 long time party supporter delegates to send to state. We even collectively agreed to elect a Kory Watkins supporter as an alternate, which completely goes against the narrative we have heard about this group.

    We shouldn’t have been able to do any of this because they had to numbers to take over. The point is that many of us across the party (my self included) allowed fear to effect our vision. It almost cost us dearly. Fortunately time was taken to have a conversation instead of just giving into fear and the Brazoria county party is stronger and full of new life because of it.

  22. Anon-Tipper

    “We discussed similarities and difference and in the end voted as a cohesive county to elect 2 FTPP delegates & 2 long time party supporter delegates to send to state. We even collectively agreed to elect a Kory Watkins supporter as an alternate, which completely goes against the narrative we have heard about this group.”

    Uhh, so turn over let then slowly take over the party instead of all at once. Am I reading that FB post correctly?

  23. Anthony Dlugos

    dL,

    “What kind of business nonsense is this? If, say, Taco Bell had a franchise caught serving dog shit in the meat–even for a non-corporate owned franchise located in bumfuck nowhere–it would have devastating consequences on the overall corporate brand.

    It was trivial to predict that weakening the platform and running GOP retreads would open the party up to this kind of garbage from the far right. Just as it is easily predictable that moderates and pragmatics serve up only a maginot line defense against it.”

    You’re not seriously arguing that running pro-choice, pro-immigrant, avowedly centrist candidates like Johnson/Weld, who had nice things to say about Hillary Clinton somehow inadvertently drew in the far right lunatics, are you? That’s lunacy. The dopes in this far right movement are trying to run away from that, not to it. Whoever these people are in Texas, I can assure you a grand total of zero of them would have supported Johnson/Weld in Orlando, 2016.

    Read what this Tommy Attaway character wrote above: there are parts of the platform they don’t like, but the party is small and easily captured. That’s all that matters. No platform, no matter how philosophically strong, is impervious to change if it also keeps the party in question small.

    A moderately libertarian LP is the real security against takeover by far right (or far left, for that matter) lunatics, not because its philosophically pure, but because its philosophically APPEALING. Its sheer size will deter attempts at take over.

    The irony is that its philosophical consistency that you are apparently arguing for that is the real Maginot Line in the arena of electoral politics. It keeps the party small and vulnerable to take over.

    Electoral politics is a popularity contest, not a philosophical debate. And it really doesn’t matter whether or not the founders of this party saw some other mission for this political partyh. Once they put the organization in the arena of electoral politics, it was inevitable that it was going to evolve into a popularity seeking enterprise.

    Tommy Attaway, and paulie, for that matter (see post at March 17, 2018 at 14:11) understand what you apparently refuse to see: philosophy is largely irrelevant in this contest. Whoever has the votes, wins. Its that simple. If you don’t like that then once again, I must remind you that electoral politics is not for you.

    In other words, we’ve beenlargely serving dog sh*t for several decades. No one has been buying it. Then, we we catch a glimpse of what the potential is when we serve something other than dog sh*t (from the point of view of the average voters, not the already converted), the results are incontrovertible: Dog sh*t purity gets trounced in a room full of the already converted, and a moderate message the public can understand and swallow gets bought and levels unprecedented in our party history.

  24. Anthony Dlugos

    I’ll remind everyone once again that, when Goat Blood Boy gave his goodbye youtube speech, he said the party screwed up nominating Johnson-Weld and should have nominated Petersen-Sharpe.

    That’s not because he had any philosophical/policy agreement with Petersen-Sharpe. Its because, as someone who internalized the truism that electoral politics is a popularity contest, he knew a party willing to nominate Petersen-Sharpe is willing to stay small and easily captured, and the philosophy, laid out in the platform, can easily be changed to whatever he wants it to be once he grabs control.

  25. paulie Post author

    Uhh, so turn over let then slowly take over the party instead of all at once. Am I reading that FB post correctly?

    Sounds that way to me too.

  26. Joe Wendt

    @ Knapp,

    Considering there are now 3 members of the American Guard on the Executive Committee now, yes, the LPF has been taken over by the alt-right

  27. Michael Chastain

    Thanks for the liveblogging from Harris County, Paulie. Much appreciated.

  28. Thomas L. Knapp

    “You’re not seriously arguing that running pro-choice, pro-immigrant, avowedly centrist candidates like Johnson/Weld, who had nice things to say about Hillary Clinton somehow inadvertently drew in the far right lunatics, are you? That’s lunacy. ”

    Well, yes, it was lunacy to run, for the third time in a row, one or a pair of washed up Republican retreads. Not because it drew in the far right lunatics specifically, but because it broadcast to every other group of con artists plying their trade that here is a rudderless, ripe for takeover shell of a formerly purpose-driven organization that can be talked into pretty much anything — and more than once, whether that anything works or not.

    Fortunately that impression is a little over-hyped. The LP is showing signs of recovery. It took the Nielson scammers two ballots each to put their ringers over the line this time. But we can still expect that gang, and various other bad actors, to keep trying.

  29. Andy

    Another ridiculous statement above from Anthony Dlugos in regard to Augustus Invictus having endorsed Austin Petersen/Larry Sharpe to have been the LP’s presidential ticket in 2016, instead of Johnson /Weld. Petersen/Sharpe were more libertarian than Johnson/Weld (who I do not think we’re really libertarian at all), and they were also both better public speakers than Johnson/Weld. The LP would have been better off had Petersen/Sharpe been nominated, and if they had, I would likely have put my differences with Petersen aside and supported the ticket.

  30. Anthony Dlugos

    “…but because it broadcast to every other group of con artists plying their trade that here is a rudderless, ripe for takeover shell of a formerly purpose-driven organization that can be talked into pretty much anything —and more than once, whether that anything works or not.”

    If we are specifically talking about the presidential nomination, I’m willing to be talked into just about anything as long as its coming from the mouth of an ex-governor.

    Otherwise, don’t waste my time with what you say your principles are, because if they have never been put to the test in an actual executive position, preferably in the public sector, it is by definition pointless blather. Such a person has no clue what they would do once faced with the ACTUAL job, their protestations to the contrary only indicating how deluded they are.

  31. Thomas L. Knapp

    “Such a person has no clue what they would do once faced with the ACTUAL job, their protestations to the contrary only indicating how deluded they are.”

    Well, yes, Gary Johnson knew what to do once faced with the ACTUAL job.

    Raise state spending and state debt faster than Barack Obama raised federal spending and federal debt.

    Try to fire university officials for not giving construction bids to his company.

    Get held in contempt by the state’s Supreme Court for attempting to rule by decree when the legislature wouldn’t give him his way.

    Attempt to raise taxes on foreign soil (Indian reservations).

    Become the first governor of the state in 40 years to order the killing of an inmate, just before first trying to horse-trade abolition of the death penalty for other stuff, then discovering that he’s actually against it.

    The problem with his governorship wasn’t so much that he didn’t know what to do, as that damn near everything he knew to do was fucked up.

  32. Anthony Dlugos

    Its funny that a ticket of Johnson-Weld is supposed to signal to con men that this party is ripe for takeover, but when you listen to the actual con men (e.g., Goat Blood Boy, the now Republican Petersen,erstwhile Cyber Party candidate turned “libertarian” McAfee , they all agreed that Johnson was a mistake, and Weld a bigger mistake.

    You’d think they’d be ecstatic about J-W, rather than leave the party.

  33. Anthony Dlugos

    Given that none of the other candidates had records to run on, comparing job performance is pointless.

    The worst college quarterback in the NCAA is better than some blogger talking about what it takes to be a good quarterback. If the blogger has a problem with that, go become a quarterback and do better. You’ll have no problem getting discovered by a team that wants to win.

  34. Thomas L. Knapp

    Why would a bunch of con artists be ecstatic that they got beat out by another con artist?

    They, and those like them, will be back because they have multiple times in a row proof of concept that the LP tends to nominate grifters.

    And not just ideologically incompatible grifters, and not always the candidates themselves. For examples, read George Phillies’s books on the 1996 and 2000 presidential campaigns, or look at the management of Michael Badnarik’s 2006 congressional campaign.

  35. Andy

    Who gives a flying fuck whether or not something comes out of the mouth of a former Governor or US Senator or any other politician? Most of these people are completely full of shit.

  36. Anthony Dlugos

    “Who gives a flying fuck whether or not something comes out of the mouth of a former Governor or US Senator or any other politician?”

    When it comes to the office of the President? The voters do. That’s who. You know, the people we are supposed to be appealing to? They don’t vote, nor even listen to, a candidate for President with zilch in the way of executive experience.

    I am willing to concede any group, including the Libertarian Party, is capable of getting sucked in by a con man. My way tells them they have to go be a governor first. Go “con” a state to elect you first, in other words, before we listen to what they have to say.

    Your way tells them that they merely have to say they are a libertarian, or, worse yet, say what they believe is actually libertarian, and we’ll listen to what they have to say.

    Now, which way do you think is going to attract more cons?

    We already got one in your boy Kokesh. He must think this party is manna from heaven. He has no executive experience, no previous runs for office, no visible means of support, a felony record, and he says he’s going to “abolish the federal government on his first day in office.” And we actually have people considering giving him 50-state ballot access.

    Like I said, he must think we are manna from heaven.

  37. Andy

    Adam Kokesh has over 10 years worth of experience as a hardcore libertarian activist. This qualifies him for the job.

  38. dL

    You’re not seriously arguing that running pro-choice, pro-immigrant, avowedly centrist candidates like Johnson/Weld, who had nice things to say about Hillary Clinton somehow inadvertently drew in the far right lunatics, are you?

    Yes, weakening the platform on immigration and abortion rights, eliminating the children rights plank, etc, etc…nominating republicans for 12 straight years, including the guy who authored “The Defense of Marriage Act,” nominating a vice presidential candidate who is a flat out bigot, nominating a vice presidential candidate who is a gun grabber, etc, etc… has a cumulative effect of extending an open invitation to the far right fringe that otherwise would not be there.

    I would also be remiss not to point out that these right wingers would argue that a “pro-life, build the wall libertarian” would be much more popular with the voters in Texas than a “Hillary Clinton libertarian(i.e, William Weld),” and by your own criteria, you would have to side with the far right nutters in Texas. That is, when you are not abandoning your criteria RE: unimportance of principle and threatening to storm over to the Democratic Party.

  39. dL

    no previous runs for office, no visible means of support, a felony record

    Kokesh did run for congress as a republican. New Mexico, I believe. He manages to tour frequently around the entire country and outside the United States. It is quite visible that he has enough means not to be broke. And his felony record is a result of an act civil disobedience and drug possession. Frankly, that should be a plus in any libertarian’s book.

  40. Andy

    I came into the LP during the Harry Browne days, and I think that left “libertarians” are wrong on abortion (although I do not consider it to be a high priority issue) and “open borders, into democratic welfare states with public property and forced association laws to be a legitimate libertarian position. I favor physically removing foreign born welfare leeches, criminals, Marxists, and theocrats. If we lived in a private property ancap society, private security would kick people like this out, or private militias would kick them out. Given that private actors can’t do this under the statist paradigm in which we live, the state should do it (just like the state should arrest and prosecute murders, rapists, car hackers, etc…., or at the very least, the state should not invite these people in or entice them with welfare and other government services and citizenship.

    Every government on the planet regulates migration and borders. The USA should not bectge dumping ground for the world.

    Mass welfare statist migration is part of the NWO agenda. It is not libertarian. It is actually anti-liberty.

    I never supported Bob Barr or Wayne Root or Gary Johnson or Jim Gray (although I did vote for Gray when he ran for US Senate in California years ago, even though I had some disagreements with him) or Bill Weld.

  41. Gina

    Wow, Andy sounds just like one of these Texas Freedom Patriot Party usurpers/invaders. Maybe he was part of the advance infiltration team establishing a long term beachhead in the LP to welcome later invaders such as Augustus Invictus, Michael Heise, Ryan Ramsey, Tommy Attaway, and so on?

  42. Anthony Dlugos

    “And his felony record is a result of an act civil disobedience and drug possession. Frankly, that should be a plus in any libertarian’s book.”

    He has less fear to put his principles in action than I do. I’d rather not go to jail. I fully admit that.

    He is still nowhere near qualified to be President, objectively speaking, nor is he qualified subjectively speaking from the perspective of the voters. Those voters have jobs, mortgages, other debts, pensions and other investments, plans for the future, children, businesses, etc.

    In other words, skin in the game.

    Its been my experience that a lot of Libertarians, especially the purists, do not, and so would either not be bothered by the prospects of dystopia, but some of them positively would welcome it. They have lots of bullets and RTE’s.

    Even a moderate Libertarian, from the average voter perspective, is arguing for something akin to the largest managed bankruptcy in the history of humanity.

    You cannot suggest to them, “here is a man who conducted an act of civil disobedience by bringing a gun into an unauthorized area. Trust him with that process.”

    One man’s opinion.

  43. Thomas L. Knapp

    “He is still nowhere near qualified to be President, objectively speaking”

    OBJECTIVELY speaking, the qualifications are to be a natural born citizen of the United States, to have resided in the United States for at least 14 years, and to be at least 35 years of age. Which one of these is he missing?

    Everything else is entirely subjective. Yes, voters seem to have a subjective preference for executive experience in either the government or the military, but they do make exceptions (for example, Abraham Lincoln’s “executive experience” consisted of a few weeks of being elected captain of a militia unit during the Blackhawk War).

  44. dL

    Its been my experience that a lot of some Libertarians, especially the purists moderates, do not, and so would either not be bothered by the prospects of dystopia

    I have found that an organization like, say, Cato, has never let war, mass murder, mass imprisonment, mass deportation, mass surveillance stand in the way of the liberating benefits of capitalism. If the regime is “capitalist,” dystopia is just a friction coefficient.

  45. Steven R Linnabary

    “Even a moderate Libertarian, from the average voter perspective, is arguing for something akin to the largest managed bankruptcy in the history of humanity.”

    No, the moderates removed debt repudiation from the LP platform over a decade ago.

    PEACE

  46. Chuck Moulton

    Anthony Dlugos wrote:

    I’m willing to be talked into just about anything as long as its [sic] coming from the mouth of an ex-governor.

    Wow!! Just… wow!

    I have never seen a clearer explanation from the shiny badge caucus of their wholesale repudiation of libertarian philosophy and their eagerness to be slaves to politicians.

    Do not under any circumstances put Anthony Dlugos in any decision making capacity within the LP — including delegate anywhere.

  47. Chuck Moulton

    Any updates from the other county conventions? Did Whitney get a delegate slot?

    This is why state convention delegates should strongly consider NOTA rather than running a conservative. Letting the paleos run on the Libertarian line just gives them a platform to recruit others to hurt the LP.

  48. Anthony Dlugos

    lol. Dilly, dilly, Chuck!

    Relax, sir. No one is suggesting anything as dramatic as “wholesale repudiation of libertarian philosophy.” Just joining the party demonstrates an affinity for libertarian philosophy, and a desire to move the country in a libertarian direction Given how far away from individual liberty and limited government this country currently is, ANY steps in a libertarian direction would be a good

    The only thing I am repudiating is a wildly unrealistic vision of a libertopia fit only for science fiction novels, a vision that appeals to NO ONE other than a small faction of the already converted.

    If you are going to accuse me of not caring at all what such a faction thinks, and instead focusing on the policy ideas the general voting public…who are not libertarians…might buy,, then I stand guilty as charged.

  49. Anthony Dlugos

    Should read, “its a good idea to rethink your principles if you end up agreeing with Andy” above.

  50. Thomas L. Knapp

    “The only thing I am repudiating is a wildly unrealistic vision of a libertopia fit only for science fiction novels”

    Glad to hear you’re finally dropping the utopian fantasy that Republican rejects who come to the LP because they can’t get out of low single digits in their own party’s races are going to magically take the LP to the Big Time.

  51. paulie Post author

    Any updates from the other county conventions?

    Some sporadic here and there. It sounds like the TFPP have taken over a few counties and made inroads in others. Hard to say whether that’s enough to give them effective control in the upcoming state convention from the partial and anecdotal data I have seen. I’ll try to report live.

    Did Whitney get a delegate slot?

    I believe so but would have to check.

  52. paulie Post author

    Congressional District conventions were after county conventions. The only one I heard about was CD 10, which stretches from parts of the Houston area to parts of the Austin area and a bunch of rural areas in between. A Trumpster fire of a LPublitarian got the nomination. Not sure if that’s fully indicative of what will happen at the state level yet.

  53. Andy

    I know Adam Kokesh is going to be there. I think he’s going to be bringing in a lot of delegates, and Kokesh is a hardcore libertarian, and any delegates he gets to go to the convention are going to be strong libertarians.

    This entire thread is idiotic. Some tiny oddball third party is not going to stand a snowballs chance in hell of taking over the LP of Texas.

    A much bigger and more realistic threat of taking over the Libertarian Party has already happened, as at the last three presidential nominating conventions, the LP’s presidential tickets were hijacked by Deep State operatives and opportunistic hustlers.

  54. Andy

    “Anthony Dlugos
    March 20, 2018 at 13:45
    lol. Dilly, dilly, Chuck!

    Relax, sir. No one is suggesting anything as dramatic as “wholesale repudiation of libertarian philosophy.” Just joining the party demonstrates an affinity for libertarian philosophy, and a desire to move the country in a libertarian direction ”

    So you don’t think that anyone can lie, especially a politician, who are in fact known for lying?

  55. Andy

    “Gina
    March 19, 2018 at 09:05
    Wow, Andy sounds just like one of these Texas Freedom Patriot Party usurpers/invaders.”

    Wow, “Gina” sounds like a man in drag, hiding behind a fake name and an IP anonymizer.

  56. Andy

    “paulie Post author
    March 19, 2018 at 08:32
    Yeah, and Harry Browne disagreed with you on those issues too.”

    Harry Browne was pro-life. He did not think that the government could do anything about abortion, and as he was running for President, he said it was a state or local issue. He clearly thought that abortion was immoral and anti-libertarian, he just did not see getting government involved with it to be productive.

    I was actually pro-abortion when Harry Browne was running. I did not reexamine and modify my abortion position until the mid 2000’s.

    If abortion is murder, which I think that a compelling case can be made that it is, it should be considered to be illegal (even in an ancap society, murder would still be illegal, or at least it violates libertarian principles and would not be acceptable), however, given that half of the population does not see it that way, and given that at least half of the liberty movement does not see it that way, I do not think that this is politically achievable, or practical, and given that there are what I’d consider to be more pressing problems threatening our liberty, like the Federal Reserve System/fiat currency, taxes, a growing police state, military imperialism, the War on Drugs, the attack on gun rights, etc…, I think that it is counterproductive to get involved in abortion arguments. So I actually prefer to keep abortion off the table (outside of cutting off taxpayer funding for it, which has always been a standard stance for all Libertarians, until Johnson/Weld 2016 came along). I don’t really care that much where a candidate stands on abortion.

    Now as for immigration, Harry Browne said that cutting off the welfare state would mean that freeloaders who come here to take advantage of government welfare/services would no longer be encouraged to come here. Harry Browne’s platform including completely eliminating the welfare state. I agree that ending the welfare state would reduce a lot of the problems associated with immigration. Here we are 18 years after the death of Harry Browne, and instead of the welfare state being eliminated, the problems have only gotten worse.

    Would Harry Browne advocate for “open borders” in the face of a welfare state and mass democracy if he were alive today, like a left wing “cuck” libertarian? I don’t know. I do know that his old friend and fellow investor and investment adviser, Doug Casey, is not that foolish. Doug is a long time anarcho-capitalist, and he said in a recent interview that “open borders” would only work under the context of a private property anarcho-capitalist society, and he said that the mass immigration that is happening today in a lot of countries in Europe and in the USA is not being driven by the free market. Doug is also a member of The Freedom and Property Society, founded by Hans-Hermann Hoppe, and he has spoken at several of their events.

    We don’t know for sure what Harry Browne would say if he were alive today, but even if he were alive, and he advocated for “open borders” under our current conditions, I would not throw him under the bus. I followed Harry Browne enough to know that I respect him. I still like Larken Rose and Adam Kokesh, even though they advocate “open borders” regardless of anything else (note that Adam’s campaign platform is kind of bypassing this issue, since he is running on abolishing the entire federal government, and throwing all other issues back to the state or local level).

    I don’t automatically throw people under the bus and throw a tantrum because I disagree with them on something.

    Also, I don’t think that coercive government should exist, so I don’t really support government control over borders or immigration either. I just think that while government exists, and is monopolizing this function, just as it monopolizes criminal justice, fire fighting, roads, and a lot of other things, that the government should manage borders and immigration in a way that is not destructive or overwhelming to the existing population. Attracting foreign migrants with Marxist or theocratic or other totalitarian views is destructive to the liberty of the existing population. Attracting welfare seekers or criminals or people with communicable diseases is destructive to the existing population. Most people don’t mind some immigrants, but most people also do not wish to be overwhelmed, or demographically replaced, by immigrants. Any policy concerning migration/immigration while the state exists and manages the land and public infrastructure is going to be a statist policy (including open up the borders and allow everyone in), and that’s just all there is to it. Allowing anyone to flood in, no questions asked, particularly when the state is a democratic welfare state with forced association laws, is a destructive and overwhelming policy, and this would not be acceptable if we lived in an anarcho-capitalist society, nor does it reflect the will of most of the existing population who pay the taxes that built and maintain the public infrastructure.

  57. DJ

    Andy: I just think that while government exists, and is monopolizing this function, just as it monopolizes criminal justice, fire fighting, roads, and a lot of other things, that the government should manage borders and immigration in a way that is not destructive or overwhelming to the existing population.

    Me: That boat sailed a long time ago. Everything the gov’t does is overwhelming and destructive because it requires taxes and everyone (including migrants legal and illegal) pays taxes. Demanding from gov’t empowers gov’t regardless of how ‘pure’ the demand.

    Win hearts, minds will follow. Growing gov’t forces servitude.

  58. Andy

    DJ, there are other countries in this world, all of which have governments, that do not have immigration policies that are destructive or overwhelming to the existing population. Japan, Poland, Hungry, Switzerland, and Israel are not being overrun by unwanted foreign migrants. Even the micronations of Lechtenstein and Luxembourg are not being overrun by destructive, unwanted foreigners. Also, the USA really did not have much of an immigration problem pre-welfare state and pre-1965. The current situation is being done intentionally to subvert the US Constitution and implement the New World Order agenda, and it is being carried out by traitors within our own government.

  59. Andy

    Demanding that government not give welfare and other government services to immigrants does not empower government. Demanding that government make the citizenship process more difficult does not empower government. These steps would greatly reduce government.

    The USA had a much smaller government prior to being hit with modern mass immigration. This is something that has only happened in recent decades.

  60. Thomas L. Knapp

    Actually, as a percentage of the US population, immigrants are about where they were 100 years ago, and lower than at any point before that going back to 1860. There was a big dip in immigrants starting in the 1920s and we’re just now getting back to normal.

  61. Anthony Dlugos

    “Demanding that government not give welfare and other government services to immigrants does not empower government.”

    Maybe, maybe not, but it definitely shows a total lack of perspective about what problems face the federal and state governments. A lack of perspective born of xenophobia, and likely racism too.

    “Demanding that government make the citizenship process more difficult does not empower government.”

    Yes, it does. Clearly.

  62. DJ

    I understand, Andy. But, the countries you listed don’t have our constitution nor do they have our numbers.

    I agree with the traitors in our gov’t too- but, demanding from gov’t will beget more gov’t, no matter how pure the intent.

    I don’t believe the majority of those coming here are ‘intent’ on the destruction of US. I do believe there are those in gov’t who do believe themselves impervious to the destruction they’re creating, but not through a loose immigration policy. I believe we have much more serious matters to attend-

  63. DJ

    Andy: The USA had a much smaller government prior to being hit with modern mass immigration. This is something that has only happened in recent decades.

    Me: Those were in different times- the recent decades have been infected with an unlimited credit card via the fed reserve- if a finger is to be pointed and a time line assigned start with the fed reserve act, followed by Nixon’s removal of the gold standard and the creation of the Petro-dollar with Saudi. However, the people migrating here, “illegally” are using an age old practice of going where the grass is greener. That doesn’t equate to destruction, but, it is an unspoken admission of where they are and what’s happening there is not conducive to one’s well being.

  64. Andy

    I made a mistake when I said that we are 18 years past the death of Harry Browne. Harry Browne passed away in 2006, which was 12 years ago. 18 years ago was Harry Browne’s last presidential run.

  65. Andy

    Anything we do in politics is demanding something from government. I demand that the government cut taxes. I demand that government respect the 2nd amendment. I demand that government not get into any unnecessary wars. I demand that while government manages the roads, that they fix the potholes and keep the traffic lights working. I demand that while government monopolized fire fighting, that they put out fires. I demand that while government monopolizes criminal justice, that they arrest and prosecute murderers, rapist, and theives. Etc….

  66. Andy

    DJ, the mass immigration agenda is not just being used to destroy the USA, it is being pushed to destroy all of European based civilization, and the world in general. This is a globalist agenda. It is the NWO. It is for world totalitarian government.

  67. Thomas L. Knapp

    “The mass migration agenda” is:

    People moving around without Andy’s permission.

    That’s something that libertarians are fine with. Only authoritarians think they should get to decide where people travel or settle down.

  68. DJ

    Andy: DJ, the mass immigration agenda is not just being used to destroy the USA, it is being pushed to destroy all of European based civilization, and the world in general. This is a globalist agenda. It is the NWO. It is for world totalitarian government.

    Me: That doesn’t negate anything I said. You’re ‘projecting’. While your fears have some truth, that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen because of immigration. Out of curiosity though; What did migration mean in the past?

    We’re way past the point of no return Andy. It takes more time, and effort, to rebuild or build than it does to tear down. It’s taken centuries to get this far. Stopping immigration is a mere drop in the bucket, and honestly, the least of our worries.

    And, I might add; I question the word civilization. If you’re referring to ‘just’ a coming together of like minded, fine. But, we, and Europe, are far from civilized. When servants are called leaders and the alleged leaders implement a policy of comply or die, locally or foreign, it might be time to consider a different thought process- that has to start at home. Home is the sovereign citizen. Change hearts, minds will follow. Force beliefs and there will be rebellion, and likely retaliation, with force. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. ALL conflict starts with one forcing his will on another.

    I used to say about myself: You could ‘lead’ me through a bed of broken glass, barefoot, into hell- but I will not be pushed into heaven. Not everyone feels that way, but, that is their worry, not mine, until/unless they start pushing me.

    It is simple. Simple rarely equates to easy. If it were easy it wouldn’t be worth having. We have a propensity to make the simple difficult by over thinking and especially ‘projecting’ our fears. If you project yourself into a situation it’s a pretty safe bet you’ll find yourself in that situation. In and of itself that’s fine, but, when others are dragged in then it ain’t so fine.

    I posted a link about how much gov’t has grown recently with Border Patrol people and how much the budget has increased- growth and increase in budget is the result of demanding the gov’t take care of it.
    It also empowers the boots on the ground to commit atrocities, which the article I posted pointed out- the boots on the ground, Andy, not acting in a humane manner, (inhumane actually) and BTW, Trump has deported fewer than Obama, yet, he’s recruiting the National Guard- for what? A show? Of what? His power? No, because he feels he’s been empowered. The boots on the ground have been empowered.

    Disclaimer: I’m not pro Trump, or Obama, Democrat or Republican.

  69. Andy

    DJ said: “However, the people migrating here, ‘illegally’ are using an age old practice of going where the grass is greener. That doesn’t equate to destruction, but, it is an unspoken admission of where they are and what’s happening there is not conducive to one’s well being.”

    They could go where the “grass is greener” somewhere else, like say Japan, or Poland, or Israel, but none of those countries are foolish enough to take them (Israel only takes people who have Jewish ancestry, and can back it up in a DNA test).

    Also, considering that a super-majority of modern day immigrants (I use the term loosely, since most of these people should more accurately be described as being invaders rather than immigrants), and their offspring, are on government welfare, and that after obtaining citizenship, which allows them to vote, they vote in super-majority numbers for expanding the welfare state and enacting more gun control laws. This shows that most of them are not coming for the freedom, they are coming for the “free” stuff (“free” at the expense of the rest of the taxpayers). This is also clearly apparent when you observe the general hostility some of these people have for things like the Western European tradition of free speech.

  70. Andy

    Note that Mexico also takes very few migrants. Mexico regularly deports people who break their immigration laws, and it is in the Mexican Constitution that it is illegal to pass an immigration law that results in altering the demographics of Mexico. They of course want the opposite in the USA, because they use the USA as a dumping ground for poor Mexicans. They encourage them to go to the USA so they become America’s problem.

  71. Andy

    DJ said: “I posted a link about how much gov’t has grown recently with Border Patrol people and how much the budget has increased- growth and increase in budget is the result of demanding the gov’t take care of it.
    It also empowers the boots on the ground to commit atrocities, which the article I posted pointed out- the boots on the ground, Andy, not acting in a humane manner, (inhumane actually) and BTW, Trump has deported fewer than Obama, yet, he’s recruiting the National Guard- for what? A show? Of what? His power? No, because he feels he’s been empowered. The boots on the ground have been empowered.”

    Hey guess what? I was just in Mexico. I flew in and was greeted at the airport by Mexicans with machine guns. I had to go through an immigration check point. I had to tell the Mexican government where I was staying in Mexico, and how long I was planning to be there. I had to go through the Mexican version of the TSA, which included sending my bags through an X-ray scanner, and going through a metal detector, and being patted down. Two people from the plane who were in line behind me had their bags opened up and searched by the Mexican version of the TSA (I don’t think that they found anything incriminating, but they must have suspected something).

    Oh, and when I got to the hotel were Anarchapulco was being held, the hotel had several guards outside with machine guns. They also gave hotel guests a write band, and hotel staff periodically checked to see if people had their wrist bands on when using hotel facilities.

    “Disclaimer: I’m not pro Trump, or Obama, Democrat or Republican”

    Nobody said that you were. Neither am I.

  72. Thomas L. Knapp

    “Hey guess what? I was just in Mexico. I flew in and was greeted at the airport by Mexicans with machine guns. I had to go through an immigration check point. I had to tell the Mexican government where I was staying in Mexico, and how long I was planning to be there. I had to go through the Mexican version of the TSA, which included sending my bags through an X-ray scanner, and going through a metal detector, and being patted down. Two people from the plane who were in line behind me had their bags opened up and searched by the Mexican version of the TSA (I don’t think that they found anything incriminating, but they must have suspected something).”

    And you want the US to be like that.

    An authoritarian shithole like Mexico.

    No sale.

  73. Andy

    Globalists likes George Soros are not interested in bringing down government borders so they can create an anarcho-capitalist society, they are doing it because they want global government, which they control. These people are anti-liberty.

  74. Anthony Dlugos

    You really oughta think of that Constitution Party, Andy. Your xenophobia is right up their alley.

  75. paulie Post author

    This entire thread is idiotic. Some tiny oddball third party is not going to stand a snowballs chance in hell of taking over the LP of Texas.

    One of their people got the LP nomination for US Senate. Others got various nominations including US House. It’s not an oddball third party, it’s a pressure group that has mainly worked within the Republican Party.

  76. paulie Post author

    Harry Browne was pro-life.

    False. He said if abortion was outlawed it would become more common, which is probably true. Didn’t rid the rest of your blathering.

  77. paulie Post author

    “Gina
    March 19, 2018 at 09:05
    Wow, Andy sounds just like one of these Texas Freedom Patriot Party usurpers/invaders.”

    Hate to say it but she has a point there.

  78. Anthony Dlugos

    “Hate to say it but she has a point there.”

    As I’ve said before, he’s in the wrong party. That’s not an attempt at purging him, I’m just quite confident that any variety of the Nolan Chart that included a gauge that allowed the test taker to dial up how important each particular issue is would almost assuredly put him in the Constitution Party, not the LP.

    Frankly, given the hard right turn of the GOP on immigration, my guess is that the GOP would finish ahead of the LP on the sympatico test.

    I think the only reason he sticks in the LP is inertia, and a predisposition to want to be in a group where he is the persecuted remnant.

  79. DJ

    Andy: Hey guess what? I was just in Mexico. I flew in and was greeted at the airport by Mexicans with machine guns. I had to go through an immigration check point. I had to tell the Mexican government where I was staying in Mexico, and how long I was planning to be there. I had to go through the Mexican version of the TSA, which included sending my bags through an X-ray scanner, and going through a metal detector, and being patted down. Two people from the plane who were in line behind me had their bags opened up and searched by the Mexican version of the TSA (I don’t think that they found anything incriminating, but they must have suspected something).

    Me: Hey guess what? I had the same thing happen to me when I worked in Bahrain. That still doesn’t negate anything I said, and, I will not fly, inside, or out, of this country again because of the TSA, not what I might experience at arrival, but because of the TSA here in this country which was sold using fear as the tool and has served only to enrich a few and done absolutely nothing to secure us- nor do I have the desire to travel out of the country, mainly because of the hatred the fear sellers have stirred up toward US which I had 0 to do with, but, because I am a veteran I’m considered a possible threat. To what? To whom?
    And, swimming to Japan is a bit difficult- but, there were no armed guards anywhere when I the ship I was on made port there. Or in the Philippines, Or Bangkok, or Norway or Hong Kong, or the times I visited Mexico- in the past. You don’t seem to want to acknowledge there are differences between other places and here. Mainly, citizens here are armed.

    And, I’m very aware of what George Soros does- mainly pick on the weak who are in groups of like minded weakness or are easily bought- neither of which is lasting.

  80. Chuck Moulton

    Paulie wrote:

    One of their people got the LP nomination for US Senate. Others got various nominations including US House.

    That is the only relevant comment that has been posted on this article in weeks.

    Is there some place I can read a followup report of the Texas convention? Who is their U.S. Senate candidate? What is his or her platform? Who was elected to the party leadership? Were they or weren’t they part of the takeover group? Who was selected as national convention delegates? Were they or weren’t they part of the takeover group?

    This whole takeover attempt is concerning. Instead of reading about it, all I see is Andy spewing alt-right garbage and various people responding to his debunked whackadoodle nonsense.

  81. paulie Post author

    Mexico regularly deports people who break their immigration laws

    There are a lot of stupid laws in Mexico which should not be adopted in the US, which has always been a nation of immigrants and always should be.

  82. paulie Post author

    Is there some place I can read a followup report of the Texas convention?

    Unfortunately, not here. I was going to go and report on it but wasn’t able to make it to this one or Louisiana, which I was going to attend last week. Also will have to cancel my plans to attend LNC in Denver next weekend.

    I’ll share news when I find it. Just getting back online today myself and haven’t looked at much yet except email and IPR. I’ve been told there are accounts on FB, so maybe someone else can beat me to it, find and share them here.

    Reports I have heard so far is that the Senate candidate Neil Dikeman (sp?) is part of the takeover group as is at least one US House candidate. On the other hand they did not succeed in getting their friend Kathie Glass a third nomination for governor, but initial reports are that the Glass faction which includes the takeover group has a 2-1 majority on the new state exec comm. I have not heard anything about national convention delegates yet.

    Instead of reading about it, all I see is Andy spewing alt-right garbage and various people responding to his debunked whackadoodle nonsense.

    True, it’s a cancer on this site.

  83. dL

    An authoritarian shithole like Mexico.

    Mexico changed their immigration laws back in 2011, partly out of sheer embarrassment that they were more authoritarian than the United States. The authoritarian shit hole these days is the United States.

  84. Thane Eichenauer

    TLK> I flew in and was greeted at the airport by Mexicans with machine guns. I had to go through an immigration check point.

    Down with airports! They are a magnet to don’t-touch-my-junk-itarians! I’ll stick with driving to Nogales, Arizona, crossing over the border on foot to Mexico, perhaps nodding and perhaps not nodding to the Mexican border soldier (rifle on his back) dressed all in black resting on top of the border crossing picnic table. Returning to the US was considerably less casual. All I could think of upon returning was “What a bunch of make-work jobs!”

    ¡Arriba, Arriba! ¡Ándale, Ándale! More batmobiles, less airports!

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