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Libertarian National Convention Results

The votes were

Angela McArdle — 691

Steve Dasbach – 151

Tony D’Orazio – 103

Caryn Ann Harlos has been elected as National Secretary

Harlos – 694 Gain of 3 from McArdle
Wilford – 239 Loss of 15 from Dasbach and D’Orazio

Todd Hagopian has been elected as National Treasurer

Hagopian – 731 Gain of 40 from McArdle
Hagan – 206 Loss of 48 from Dasbach + D’Orazio

Joshua Smith has been elected National Vice Chair.  He beat NOTA.   Kudos to Uncle Dave for catching my copy and paste error that had him elected Secretary.

The At-Large Members have been elected. The elected members and their votes are
Dustin Blankenship — 629
Rich Bowen — 651

Bryan Elliott — 584

Steven Nekhaila — 663

Mike Rufo — 651

and the leading votegetters among the many who were not elected were

Whitney Bilyeu — 288

John Wilford — 338

Elected to the Judicial Committee were

Ken Krawchuck — 626
Stephan Kinsella — 604
Rob Latham — 650
Marc Montoni — 626
Michael Seebeck — 587
Rob Stratton — 597
Blay Tarnoff — 564

These were 63-73% of the vote. The leading defeated were
Jim Turney — 250
Evan McMahan — 229
Tricia Sprankle — 191
Ryan Graham — 164
Tyler Danke — 145

The convention voted, 512-268, a simple majority being required, to delete the abortion plank and remove it from the platform.

 

 

 

86 Comments

  1. Andy Andy May 28, 2022

    ALL RIGHT!!!!!!

    I am one of the delegates who voted for Angela.

  2. Andrew Andrew May 28, 2022

    Game over. LP just died.

  3. Sammy H Sammy H May 28, 2022

    Wonder how many of these nonvaxed dolts will give each other covid

  4. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | May 28, 2022

    Harlos elected National Secretary
    Harlos – 694
    Wilford – 239

    Harlos up 3 from McCardle. Wilford down 15 from D’Orazio+Dasbach.

  5. NewFederalist NewFederalist May 28, 2022

    Geez… where’s Ed Crane when you need him? 😉

  6. Walt Walt May 28, 2022

    Sammy sounds like a commie

  7. Steven Berson Steven Berson May 28, 2022

    I have been a sustaining member of the Libertarian Party since 2011, but I will not associate with an organization now led by a dog whistling bigot enabler like Angela McArdle. As such I will not renew my membership nor ever donate to the National Libertarian Party, and I renounce my current membership in it. Enjoy your dung heap, Mises Causus. #WalkAway

  8. Hooray for Angela Hooray for Angela May 28, 2022

    The libertarians are finally in charge again! Angela will be a fantastic chair!

  9. Andy Andy May 28, 2022

    The Mises Caucus had an event last night, and two of the speakers, Maj Toure, and Zuby, are black. They both received warm receptions. So enough with all of their racist/hater/bigot accusations.

  10. Question Question May 28, 2022

    How long before George Phillies officially quits the party?

  11. Tommy Tommy May 28, 2022

    No votes for NOTA, or does Phillies refuse to post the full numbers?

  12. Jared Jared May 28, 2022

    I wonder how long before Harlos starts streaming “Reset LNC abandons radical party principles! Shame on you, hypocrites! Whitewashed tombs!” videos on her YouTube channel. McArdle had better be a bylaws junkie autistically well acquainted with RONR, who doesn’t push the paleo cultural agenda too hard, if she plans to avoid burning the Pink Flame.

  13. Aiden Aiden May 28, 2022

    LP back to the party of do nothing no bodies that bitch about everything but will never actually have a chance of contributing to changing public policy, because their policies are too extreme for the mainstream and will never be voted into office in any meaningful numbers to matter.

    It’s like you all don’t actually want to have influence to effect anything, so can perpetually bitch about everything. The reason why the FDP in Germany gets elected is specifically because they’re MODERATE libertarians…. aka Classical Liberals; the public will not let minarchists or anarchists anywhere near government without first being introduced to a watered down version by classical liberals. The LP could have been that classical liberal party which then slowly morphed into a more minarchist party; but nope the “burn it all down NOW” faction won and killed 6 years of an effort to become that classical liberal focused party. Now, we’ll have a fascist dictatorship long before we’ll see any libertarian-leaning parties in federal office. And it’s entirely your fault mises caucus.

  14. Steven Berson Steven Berson May 28, 2022

    Andy – not all Mises Caucus members are bigots – but many are, or are willing to associate and enable bigots – and the bigotry of many Mises Caucus members extends into numerous different areas than just racism against African-Americans. Maj Toure himself has expressed bigotry against immigrants and LGBTQ individuals.

  15. Jimmy Jimmy May 28, 2022

    Apparently Aiden prefers the do nothingness and corruption of the old LNC.

    Mises makes the Libertarian Party libertarian.

  16. Jared Jared May 28, 2022

    Oddly enough, Dave Smith is one of the least toxic in LPMC leadership, considering the crap he catches from Fakertarians and others, but his Rothbardo-Hoppean disdain for impoverished people, especially addicts and the homeless, regarding them as pests in the way of the middle class, I do find appalling. AFAIK, Heise is the biggest source in leadership for callousness and toxicity, and he’s gotten worse.

  17. Aiden Aiden May 28, 2022

    @ Jimmy…. No it makes it anarchist (coupled with confused nationalist). Libertarianism at its core goes back to historical liberal thought from John Locke, John Stuart Mill, and members of the enlightenment era. The Mises caucus does NOTHING to favor these ways of thinking. The Mises caucus is just mad a government and wants the government to go away because they’re mad at government (likely for some personal – read self-centered – reason), not because they hold some cohesive ideological stances that speak to the rights of free individuals. They’re liberty for me (because I’ve been screwed before) and none for thee (because your rights don’t matter to me) people.

  18. George Phillies George Phillies May 28, 2022

    If you want to type out all the other votes, no one is stopping you from doing so. If you want to complain about me, you will take it someplace else.

  19. George Phillies George Phillies May 28, 2022

    Round 3 vote was Raudsep-Smith-NOTA, and neither Raudsep nor Smith — who was ahead — got 50% of the vote, because NOTA got 56 votes. They are now doing round 4, Smith vs. NOTA.

  20. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | May 28, 2022

    I have no plans of quitting the National Party. I paid for a life membership, many years ago, and see no reason not to keep it. My LAMA dues to the Crawford-Everett wing of the party are actually current at the moment.

  21. Uncle Dave Uncle Dave May 28, 2022

    Both Harlos and Smith were elected secretary? Huh? Did Phillies mess up yet again?

  22. Uncle Dave Uncle Dave May 28, 2022

    Phillies has a beef because someone is correcting his errors and omissions?

  23. robert capozzi robert capozzi May 28, 2022

    stick a fork in it…

  24. Thane Eichenauer Thane Eichenauer May 30, 2022

    > Wonder how many of these nonvaxed dolts will give each other covid

    Still worried about COVID two plus years later? Those that are still worried should stay in their hermetically sealed caves or move to China.

  25. Thane Eichenauer Thane Eichenauer May 30, 2022

    > I will not associate with an organization now led by a dog whistling bigot enabler like Angela McArdle.

    More and more this sounds like people with a bad case of tinitus or the same old call people racist line that they, them, those have been flinging for years. Points for not re-using racist but I have seen more folks of Jewish and Black extraction in the LP than ever before.

  26. Thane Eichenauer Thane Eichenauer May 30, 2022

    > How long before George Phillies officially quits the party?

    Given that I haven’t noticed him prejudging the new LP my two guesses are one) at least a month or two) perhaps not for a couple of years.

  27. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 30, 2022

    Jared,

    I’d put the over-under on the Mises PAC throwing Ms. Harlos under the bus at three months. They got their use out of her, and she asks too many inconvenient questions.

    McArdle in particular doesn’t like to be asked things like “why did you try to rig a Soho Forum debate you should have won easily anyway by asking Mises supporters to lie in the initial balloting so they could later pretend you ‘convinced’ them?”

    On the LNC, the questions will presumably run to more weighty matters like “where did that money actually go?” and “why did we just get court papers from the FEC over reports that seem to have been completed by a thousand monkeys with a thousand burnt umber crayons?”

  28. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | May 30, 2022

    “How long before George Phillies officially quits the party?

    Given that I haven’t noticed him prejudging the new LP my two guesses are one) at least a month or two) perhaps not for a couple of years.”

    Do I have to quit? Or is it going to implode? Or will the Mises plans work in an acceptable way?

  29. Sammy H Sammy H May 30, 2022

    “ Still worried about COVID two plus years later? Those that are still worried should stay in their hermetically sealed caves or move to China.”

    I’m vaccinated not worried. But the kooks in the LP are a different story and wasn’t the chairwoman airlifted to the hospital? What are the odds at least one or two delegates die from covidnin the next six weeks? Pretty high.

    “Respect muh free dumb!”

  30. George Phillies George Phillies May 30, 2022

    I have been asked for a list of Regional Representatives, but have not yet seen it. I gather that the Mises supporters took at least six of them, but the non-Mises people perhaps took one or two.

    I have seen reports that the Keystone Party of Pennsylvania may be gaining a national branch.

  31. Thane Eichenauer Thane Eichenauer May 30, 2022

    George Phillies> Or will the Mises plans work in an acceptable way?

    Such is my hope.

  32. Gene Berkman Gene Berkman May 30, 2022

    Angela McArdle says The Libertarian Party should be Bold! Not like Gary Johnson and Bill Weld!

    I am watching yesterday’s session of the convention, and I have reached the point where the Mises Caucus delegates push through deletion of the abortion plank.

    They have decided the Libertarian Party should Boldly Shut the Fuck Up! when a very real freedom is under very real attack!

    In some post on her website, Ms McCardle suggests you should argue – or discuss – with grocery clerks why you are not going to where a mask in a grocery store filled with other people. I guess not wearing masks is a way to show that you belived you should control your own body. So I guess a woman who was made pregnant by a rapist should be happy she does have to wear a mask in a public place.

    At least Gary Johnson and Bill Weld have defended a woman’s right to control her body for many years.

    Where else should the Libertarian Party boldly shut up? Maybe marijuana legalization. Ms McCardle is part of the Libertarian Party of California that opposed the initiative that did legalize marijuana – so I guess she has that covered..

    When will the Libertarian Party under the new regime Boldly defend Freedom? I hear the sounds of silence.

  33. Pete Pete May 30, 2022

    Gene, before you spout garbage about the new chair, you might want to spell her name correctly. McArdle.
    COVID fears? Really? That’s the best you have? You are more likely to die in a car crash, I hope you never drive or ride in a vehicle.

    Knapp and Philies are just sad. Where did the money go? Why didn’t you ask that to the recently dethroned LNC? They took out a loan and the members have to pay fees and interest remember?
    Where’s the comments on Sarwark’s fake assault? He’s your hero, why aren’t you defending him? Is he even too pathetic for you now?
    Mises are actual libertarians. Freedom and liberty and responsibility, something Sarwark and Bilyeu and Weld hate. It’s obvious Knapp and Phillies are not real libertarians.

  34. Bob Bob May 30, 2022

    If we define libertarians by the Libertarian Party, then Pete is correct. If you are not a far-right edge-lord who’s okay promoting bigots, then at this point, you probably aren’t a real libertarian anymore. The party has moved on from being pro-choice and anti-authoritarian. This is probably a realization that many are going to have to face. They don’t want you if you’re going to say that bigotry is bad.

  35. Gene Berkman Gene Berkman May 30, 2022

    Pete – my point was about the Mises Caucus deleting the abortion plank – so the Party is not on record in favor of a woman controlling her own body.

    But then they make a big deal out of wearing a face mask – and I oppose mandates too – but wearing a face mask is less control over a person’s body than giving the government power to control ones own reproduction.

    All the people you put down are committed to freedom and responsibility. Not sure that McArdle and the Mises Caucus are committed to freedom. Certainly they already have a messaging problem, since they have alienated many long time activists in the Libertarian Party.

  36. Pete Pete May 30, 2022

    Bob is just a troll, probably flopper Sarwark himself.
    Gene really thinks Bill Weld is for freedom? Nick Sarwark? Whitney Bilyeu? These three are globalists. They support mandates. They support the Fed. They hate guns. They don’t support free speech. They support murder which is what abortion is. Gene supports murder too. Gene probably agrees with the woman who said it is always her right to choose, even if her baby is two years old, she should have the right to kill it. By that logic, Gene’s mother (if she is alive) has the right to kill him right now. N’s choice, right?

  37. Eddie Young Eddie Young May 30, 2022

    I don’t know which is dumber, the obvious lies about Mises by Knapp Phillies “Bob” “Sammy” “Jared” and Berkman, or the troll comments on Ballot Access News.

  38. Thane Eichenauer Thane Eichenauer May 30, 2022

    Bob> The party has moved on from being pro-choice and anti-authoritarian.

    It certainly looks a shade less pro-choice for which I do not cry.

    As for being anti-authoritarian, I disagree.

  39. Gene Berkman Gene Berkman May 30, 2022

    I have not made any dishonest comments about Ludwig von Mises, only about the misnamed “Mises” Caucus. The Mises Caucus clearly had no understanding the the views of Ludwig von Mises on abortion or on Russian imperialism.
    I have long promoted the views of Ludwig von Mises https://www.antiwar.com/berkman/mises.html

    The Russian state military has over the last 3 months engaged in a number of rocket attacks on Lviv, the birthplace of Ludwig von Mises, but the “Mises” Caucus does not condemn Russian state aggression.
    https://calibertarianreport.com/2022/03/18/birthplace-of-ludwig-von-mises-under-attack/

    Pete – Bill Weld and Nick Sarwark support a woman’s right to control her own body, unlike some in the “Mises” Caucus, and Weld has a practical history of cutting the cost of government in Massachusetts. After Ron Paul’s many years in Congress, the federal government is bigger and more expensive than ever. Results matter.

    Neither Bill Weld nor I support infanticide. Roe vs Wade actually allows for regulation of abortion after the first trimester, and I have never opposed that part of Roe.

    Clearly, you would find your words more appreciated if you respected people you disagree with enough to not intentionally misread what they right.

  40. Thane Eichenauer Thane Eichenauer May 30, 2022

    Gene Berkman> but wearing a face mask is less control over a person’s body than giving the government power to control ones own reproduction.

    Speaking as a man living in the US and being ordered to mask and vaccinate under threat of firing for the last two years, I disagree Gene Berkman, I disagree.

    Gene Berkman> Certainly they already have a messaging problem, since they have alienated many long time activists in the Libertarian Party.

    The question is whether their strategies will overcome the loss of some former supporters and former activists. That question has not yet been answered. I believe that the new LP will be better and that the 2024 LP candidate for President will be better.

    Time will tell.

  41. Thane Eichenauer Thane Eichenauer May 30, 2022

    Pete> Bob is just a troll, probably flopper Sarwark himself.

    Ya think? Within the realm of possibility but I rather think not.

    Pete, as for the rest, really?!? Really?

  42. Thane Eichenauer Thane Eichenauer May 30, 2022

    Gene Berkman> Clearly, you would find your words more appreciated if you respected people you disagree with enough to not intentionally misread what they right.

    Excellent point.

  43. Jared Jared May 31, 2022

    The abortion plank was hotly contested long before the Mises Caucus ever came along. David Nolan, from what I understand, despite being moderately pro-choice himself, disagreed with its inclusion. Justin Amash favors its removal and clearly isn’t a fan of the LPMC.

    While I have no strong feelings for or against a bigotry plank in the platform, that the caucus prioritized its removal is concerning to me.

  44. Ryan Ryan May 31, 2022

    For people upset, I understand. One reason I’m a Libertarian and got involved in politics where I previously considered myself a conservative independent that mostly voted Republican (some Libertarians occassionally) is Donald Trump infuriated the hell out of me. I tried to get myself into Republican politics for a couple years in the aftermath and realized that was a dead end to achieve anything of value. I’ve accomplished more as a capital-L Libertarian in a year than I did in Republican Party politics for 4. I was actually elected to a grassroots political office as a Republican and even counting that achieved literally one thing of value in my 4 years trying to be in GOP politics: voted out the Attorney General at State Convention.

    Find your local county party and input all your energy there. The stuff Mises Caucus talk about largely do not matter at the county level. County politics are also incredibly retail politicking about issues that matter in a community because it affects everyone. Your county party could probably use the members as well as the people that are involved activists almost everywhere are smaller in number so your influence matters more. And from experience I can state you never deal with the national party.

  45. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 31, 2022

    At one time, I was very much in favor of deleting the abortion plank. Then I got to where I didn’t care much one way or another whether we had a milquetoast, say-nothing-while-pretending-to-say-something plank, mainly because it was a matter of settled law that didn’t have any real marginal political value for the LP insofar as the GOP had the pro-lifer market cornered and the Democrats had the pro-choice market cornered.

    Of course, now it looks like it’s about to become very much unsettled as a matter of law and be a real political issue again instead of just an interest-group market for the major political parties.

    Fortunately, after deleting the abortion plank, the delegates modified the “medical freedom” plank to more clearly apply to, among other things, abortion and the gender transition drugs that some doctors, in consultation with parents, prescribe for children.

    I strongly suspect that some of them didn’t intend that outcome, and thought they were just sticking it (pun intended) to the pro-vax-mandate crowd. But the fact remains that the LP’s platform is actually now more clearly pro-choice than it was with the poorly written abortion plank in it, and that the party’s platform is also now, for the next two years at least, on the so-called “woke” side vis a vis minors and gender transition.

  46. Root's Teeth Are Awesome Root's Teeth Are Awesome May 31, 2022

    Gene Berkman: “Weld has a practical history of cutting the cost of government in Massachusetts. After Ron Paul’s many years in Congress, the federal government is bigger and more expensive than ever. Results matter.”

    Apples and oranges. Weld was a governor, and thus could affect state finances. Paul was only one voice among many Representatives. Weld wouldn’t have done any better, or even as good, in that role.

  47. Austin Cassidy Austin Cassidy May 31, 2022

    You guys are aware that Bill Weld left the party and ran for president as a Republican in 2020, right? Was there this much reflection and consternation about Bob Barr? He also rejoined the GOP after a brief adventure in the Libertarian Party. It happens. Can’t people get over it and move forward?

    Meanwhile, Gary Johnson joined the party 11 years ago and has run for office 3 times… never signaling any interest in a return to the GOP. Ron Paul never demonstrated that kind of loyalty to the party.

  48. Gene Berkman Gene Berkman May 31, 2022

    Tom Knapp – I agree that the abortion plank that was removed was poorly written – it gave too much importance to the minority of libertarians who oppose abortion choice. The plank that it replaced was more clearly in favor of protecting a woman’s control over her own body.

    When I heard the new plank on “medical freedom” I did think that optimistically it also means that a woman has a right to choose any medical procedure, including abortion. So libertarians who are pro-choice can point to that wording.

    Still, I think that crowd that took out the abortion plank will quote the medical freedom plank only when they talk about vaccines etc, and or course not mention the question of a woman having bodily autonomy in other ways.

  49. Gene Berkman Gene Berkman May 31, 2022

    Austin – you make a couple good points, especially contrasting Gary Johnson’s continuing support for The Libertarian Party, in contrast to Ron Paul.

    Since his run for President as a Libertarian in 1988, I only know of two times that Ron Paul endorsed Libertarian Party candidates for office. In 1992, I ran for Congress in southern California, and Ron Paul sent a statement endorsing me, after I wrote him and requested it.

    In 2018, Ron Paul endorsed Murray Sabrin for U S Senator from New Jersey. Sabrin received less than one percent of the vote. That same year, Gary Johnson received 15.5% of the vote for Senator from New Mexico. (Sen. Rand Paul did endorse Gary Johnson for Senate that year)

    But it is clear that Libertarians have been more loyal to Ron Paul than he has been to the Libertarian Party. Ron Paul has endorsed many Republican candidates that support much more government than Bill Weld supports.

  50. Gene Berkman Gene Berkman May 31, 2022

    Thane – if you had to wear a mask at work because your employer requires it, that is a matter between you and your employer. If you have a contract that protects you, you can refer to it. If not, it looks like a prerogative of your employer.

  51. Root's Teeth Are Awesome Root's Teeth Are Awesome May 31, 2022

    Austin: Ron Paul never demonstrated that kind of loyalty to the party.

    But Paul did much more to popularize the libertarian philosophy than Weld, Johnson, Barr, and the entire LP combined.

    A decade ago, Paul was the face of libertarianism. More Americans were exposed to Paul — had seen, heard, or read about Paul — than to every LP candidate of the past 20 years combined.

    So Paul actually did more for libertarianism than did the LP.

    Ironically, Paul continues to do more for libertarianism than does the LP. Paul is not as visible as he was 20 years ago. But the LP is completely invisible this year in California. A Governor’s race, TWO U.S. Senate races, and other state wide offices, and not a single LPC candidate. And none in any local races here in Los Angeles.

    The Green Party, Peace & Freedom Party, and even the non-ballot qualified Constitution Party, all managed to field candidates. Not the LPC.

  52. Nathan Norman Nathan Norman May 31, 2022

    Gary Johnson misinformed America on what being libertarian is all about. It is not the Fair Tax. It is not forcing bakers to bake gay cakes. It is not Socially Liberal / Fiscally Conservative. Libertarianism is a philosophical movement. Ron Paul portrayed that better than anyone and he explained it in an honest and clear manner without watering down the message. In contrast, Gary Johnson is obviously confused about the philosophy and that comes off in his appearances. He is seen as a confused, ignorant stoner. The people who voted for him voted for him not because of the libertarian philosophy but because Republicans nominated an outsider and the Democrats nominated a crook. Johnson just happened to have more ballot access than ultimate insider Egg McMuffin, who most of Johnson’s voters probably would have preferred.

  53. Joe Wendt Joe Wendt May 31, 2022

    I find it funny that a group that nearly bankrupted the LPF and couldn’t file their PAC information correctly is now in charge of the LNC. Too funny.

  54. Rick Rick May 31, 2022

    The former LNC nearly bankrupted the party. Mises will clean it up.

  55. Austin Cassidy Austin Cassidy May 31, 2022

    Ron Paul was very skilled at building a cult of personality around himself and employing his immediate and extended family in the process. He was also tremendously successful blending his own flavor of right-leaning libertarianism into the Republican Party. To the point where his repeated campaigns for president within the GOP probably did more to hurt the LP than they did to grow it, mixing and cross-pollinating libertarianism with right-wing populist Republicanism.

  56. Austin Cassidy Austin Cassidy May 31, 2022

    As it stands, traditional Libertarian positions on (lack of) gun control and small-government economic policies (theoretically) have become pretty much mainstream in the GOP.

    And traditional Libertarian positions on criminal justice reform, immigration, marriage equality and drug-legalization have mostly been co-opted within the Democratic Party… to varying degrees.

    Gary Johnson (and others) smartly tried to sell voters on the LP as offering a “best of both worlds” mixture of economic conservatism without regressive social conservatism. I know the shorthand of “gay rights and gun rights” was used frequently. Civil rights without higher taxes. Peace and prosperity.

    I can see an audience for that.

    But a party centered on provocative podcasters and online trolls? Many of whom seem to genuinely admire Donald Trump? That already exists!

    What purpose does the new LP serve in this post-Trump American political landscape? I’m not totally sure I know. Then again, it’s not my party so it’s not really my problem.

  57. Joe Wendt Joe Wendt May 31, 2022

    Rick,

    LPF was bankrupted by one convention, that Nekhaila was involved with as were other Mise Caucus members, sorry you are a twit

  58. robert capozzi robert capozzi May 31, 2022

    AC: What purpose does the new LP serve in this post-Trump American political landscape? I’m not totally sure I know. Then again, it’s not my party so it’s not really my problem.

    Me: My guess is that this developing macho-flashing, heavily-right-tinged, NAP-absolutist LP is likely to trip off far more deeply into the fringes and irrelevancy. This is part of why I too lapsed my membership.

  59. Ryan Ryan May 31, 2022

    “He was also tremendously successful blending his own flavor of right-leaning libertarianism into the Republican Party.”

    I roll my eyes at this statement. Ron Paul ran for president in 2008 and 2012, years a Democrat won the presidency. He was an also-ran both times that unlike Bernie Sanders (the left-wing version of Paul) never won a caucus or primary. The next time a Republican was elected president was Donald Trump in 2016, a man that was easily more statist/anti-libertarian in philosophy than Richard Nixon, the man directly responsible for the creation of the Libertarian Party.

    If Ron Paul was successful, Donald Trump would have never won the Republican Party nomination, let alone the presidency, and those members since 2017 would’ve been a lot more vocal than they have been. To say otherwise is to try and make the argument Robespierre and company should be considered a success when the French Revolution in the end led to Napoleon bringing back the monarchy.

  60. Nathan Norman Nathan Norman May 31, 2022

    “post-Trump”

    I hate to break it to you but we are not in a post-Trump era. We are still in the Trump era. In the most likely scenario, Trump wins the 2024 election and becomes president again. In that way Joe Biden is the Benjamin Harrison of today.

  61. Ryan Ryan May 31, 2022

    Somehow a Biden-Trump 2024 rematch strikes me as more depressing than Clinton-Trump 2016. I think the odds are it happens though because the Democrats have no one else (Harris would do worse than Biden) and Trump is going to bully everyone. It looks like DeSantis, Pence, and Larry Hogan will definitely run, but I don’t see Trump even dignifying them with showing up to primary debates, the RNC will be too castrated to do anything, and if Trump doesn’t do them he knows the ratings will be reduced, and less TV networks will host GOP debates then. It’s not in his interest to do so then.

    Pence is dead on arrival to me. Hogan is interesting as a kind of avant garde to the party’s current direction but I think like with Ron Paul his potential has a low ceiling as far as real support. DeSantis it depends on whether primary voters want to move on or not.

  62. Austin Cassidy Austin Cassidy May 31, 2022

    Nathan:

    We disagree on whether a Trump victory in 2024 is the most likely scenario, but I concede it is not impossible. The cancer is in remission, but the nation is not out of the woods yet.

  63. Root's Teeth Are Awesome Root's Teeth Are Awesome June 1, 2022

    Ryan: :If Ron Paul was successful, Donald Trump would have never won the Republican Party nomination, let alone the presidency,

    Ron Paul is not identical to Trump, but Paul did pave the way for Trump’s America First.

    Trump’s America First suggests “No Foreign Aid, No Foreign Wars” and is a rejection of Neocon Nation Building.

    Paul set the tone for a reassessment of America’s decades-long foreign policy. He showed there was an audience for foreign non-intervention, and today most GOP politicians at least pay lip service to it.

    That’s a significant achievement for one man.

    Without Paul planting the intellectual seeds, you might not see serious resistance today to the policy of supplying Ukraine. Most of that resistance is coming from the libertarian and populist right.

  64. William Saturn William Saturn June 1, 2022

    Whatever happened to the Kropotkin Caucus you were promoting earlier this year?

  65. SocraticGadfly SocraticGadfly June 1, 2022

    Saturn: Kropotkin dissolved into anarchy. Didn’t you get the memo? Oh, wait, that got lost in anarchy too.

  66. Ryan Ryan June 1, 2022

    “Paul set the tone for a reassessment of America’s decades-long foreign policy. He showed there was an audience for foreign non-intervention, and today most GOP politicians at least pay lip service to it.

    That’s a significant achievement for one man.”

    Please. Trump aped everything the Democrats were saying about foreign wars because it had become acceptable to hate Bush because populist Republicans saw the Republican Party establishment and national-level politicians like Bush, McCain, Romney, and Boehner as losers that sold them out resulting in 8 years of Obama as president. The Tea Party were Trump’s forerunners in this, and while Ron Paul was instrumental in the start of the Tea Party, that Tea Party left him very quickly and got hijacked by other power-ambitious conservative politicians. The Tea Party was effectively a leaderless rudderless organization for 6 years that were only united by their hate of Republican Party establishment. A complete non-entity of a national politician in Rick Santorum performed relatively strongly against Romney simply due to Tea Partier fury when Santorum with hindsight had incredibly little going for him.

    If he was sat down in front of me with a lie detector hooked up to him, I would bet you a thousand dollars Donald Trump wouldn’t know what the hell Ron Paul stood for and it is intellectually disingenuous to say otherwise. I say this as a person that gave Paul a $100 check in 2008. Ron Paul for gadfly effectiveness in recent memory in a major party primary ranks less influential than Bernie Sanders, more influential than Dennis Kucinich.

    Let’s also discount the notion that Trump’s isolationism on one topic somehow justifies Paul’s influence. You have to consider the whole scope of the man. Where was Ron Paul’s influence when Trump put into place tariffs on Chinese goods leading to him having to bail out the U.S. agriculture industry with subsidies of $12 billion?

  67. Nathan Norman Nathan Norman June 1, 2022

    Look at the tweets for evidence:

    Donald J. Trump
    @realdonaldtrump

    Ron Paul is right when he says we are wasting lives and money in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Aug 17th 2011 – 4:04:27 PM EST

    Donald J. Trump
    @realdonaldtrump

    Ron Paul is right that we are wasting trillions of dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Aug 13th 2011 – 9:28:58 AM EST

    Donald J. Trump
    @realdonaldtrump

    @RonPaul has some serious ideas which deserve serious consideration. Wrong for media to ignore him.
    Aug 23rd 2011 – 10:33:16 AM EST

  68. Jared Jared June 1, 2022

    SG: “Kropotkin dissolved into anarchy.”

    Seems quite appropriate.

  69. Jared Jared June 1, 2022

    RTAA: “Ron Paul is not identical to Trump, but Paul did pave the way for Trump’s America First.”

    Pretty sure that was Pat Buchanan.

  70. None of your business None of your business June 1, 2022

    Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan both helped pave the way for Donald Trump, as did Ronald Reagan, George Wallace, Lester Maddox, Bob Barr, John Schmitz, Ross Perot, Barry Goldwater, and many others. I am proud to have voted for and supported all of them. Thank God or Trump. Trump 2024. Save America and Deo Vindice.

  71. Not important Not important June 1, 2022

    The Libertarian National Committee condemns the Soviet Propaganda Lie Center as irrational and repugnant. Bravo and amen!

  72. Ryan Ryan June 2, 2022

    Nathan,

    Howard Dean was saying that back in the 2004 Democratic primaries. Yes, Paul was a very lonely voice in the 2008 GOP primaries saying it. And Chris Wallace in a Fox News debate asked Paul if he was running in the wrong party. The 2012 primaries I paid almost no attention to because in mid-2011 you could tell none of those candidates were going to beat Obama so it was a giant waste of time and money.

  73. Root's Teeth Are Awesome Root's Teeth Are Awesome June 2, 2022

    Ryan Trump aped everything the Democrats were saying about foreign wars …

    No, the Democrats were only briefly (for about 5 years) saying stuff against Bush’s Iraq War.

    The Democrats supported Clinton’s wars. As Madeline Albright said of NATO’s attacks on Serbia, “What’s the point of having the world’s more powerful military if you never use it?”

    Democrats supported Obama’s wars on Syrian and Libya.

    Over the past 30 years, Democrats were rarely antiwar. Only for five or so years after Bush attacked Iraq.

    Democrats are so prowar, they attacked Trump for not being prowar enough. I remember when Trump finally sent a few missiles against a Syrian airfield. MSNBC laid off the anti-Trump rhetoric for a brief moment, and approvingly reported on his Syrian attack.

    One reason the Democrats hated Trump was because Trump was antiwar. Democrats like to pretend that they’re antiwar. They like to play Good Cop and have the Republicans play Bad Cop. But when Trump resisted attacking Syria and Iran, the Democrats were forced to come out of the closet as Bad Cop in order to push Trump into war.

  74. Bob Bob June 2, 2022

    You make Trump sound like such an incompetent pushover if a little MSNBC criticism made him bomb Syria.

  75. NewFederalist NewFederalist June 2, 2022

    When one has no moral compass nor solid philosophical grounding… anything and everything is possible.

  76. Root's Teeth Are Awesome Root's Teeth Are Awesome June 2, 2022

    Trump You make Trump sound like such an incompetent pushover if a little MSNBC criticism made him bomb Syria.

    I never said that MSNBC “made” Trump attack Syria. Only that MSNBC approved it, exposing progressives’ true prowar feelings.

    Nor did I say the Democratic Party “made” Trump attack Syria. Only that Democrats wanted and approved the attack.

    My point is simply that Democrats are not the antiwar party Ryan makes them out to be. Trump’s antiwar rhetoric in 2016 was not taken from Democrats, but from the libertarian/populist right. The Tea Party, Ron Paul. and yes, Pat Buchanan.

    Many groups pressured Trump to attack Syria, both “Bad Cop” Republican Never-Trumpers and the “Good Cop” Democrats (who had to drop their playacting). Even Jared and Ivanka reportedly urged Trump to attack.

  77. Jared Jared June 3, 2022

    RTAA: “Trump’s antiwar rhetoric in 2016 was not taken from Democrats, but from the libertarian/populist right. The Tea Party, Ron Paul. and yes, Pat Buchanan.”

    Trump was a registered Democrat from 2001-2009, in other words, during the Bush II years when Democrats had an antiwar movement. The Tea Party initially, until establishment neocons coopted it, was a movement for fiscal restraint formed in reaction to domestic spending by Democrats who controlled the House, the Senate, and the presidency. Trump’s nationalist rhetoric was ripped from Buchanan’s 1992 campaign slogan: “Make America First Again.” If Trump may be said to espouse any political ideology apart from his own impressions and whims, it would be paleoconservatism, which is isolationist in the true sense—militarily non-interventionist plus economically and culturally protectionist—i.e., Buchananite.

    I understand some right-libertarians want to credit Ron Paul for Trump not being a total warmonger, but I think they’re mostly trying to reassure themselves after the COVID era that Dr. Paul’s “Revolution” had some lasting positive effect. The evidence is lacking. Donald Trump already agreed with Ron Paul’s opposition to military adventurism. If his congressman’s influence on him was so great, I think we would’ve seen at least some movement from 2016-2020 to audit the Federal Reserve, but there was nothing of the kind. Trump congratulated the Fed for lowering interest rates.

  78. Jared Jared June 3, 2022

    if the congressman’s influence* Not his.

    I know Trump was not Ron Paul’s constituent. Also, I’m not Andy just because I’m noting a correction. I’m autistic, like every other self-respecting libertarian.

  79. dL dL June 4, 2022

    The Russian state military has over the last 3 months engaged in a number of rocket attacks on Lviv, the birthplace of Ludwig von Mises, but the “Mises” Caucus does not condemn Russian state aggression.

    It’s this kind of nonsense which allows the Mises Caucus tards to invite the pro-life nutjobs in and still retain the moral high ground. Sarwark et al basically ceded the anti-war position to the paleos, just like the paleos said they would do.

  80. Jared Jared June 4, 2022

    dL,

    Of all the reasons to criticize the LPMC, admitting pro-life libertarians is not one of them, unless you believe there’s something about their pro-life views in particular that makes them nutjobs. Amash is pro-life and non-Mises. It isn’t as though pro-life people were denied entry or barred from holding certain offices because they dissented from the most contentious plank in the LP platform, one that David Nolan himself wanted to omit.

  81. George Phillies George Phillies June 7, 2022

    dL Your language is at the edge of the acceptable.

  82. None of your business None of your business June 8, 2022

    Speaking as what dL would call a pro-life nutjob (I believe abortion is murder and should be treated no differently than the murder of any born individual), I think it constrains the free exchange of ideas far too much to disallow him to call us thusly, if that is what he thinks. That is, in my mind, not the same thing as purely individual ad hominem, and more in the realm of general political opinion. Whatever your rules of conduct are or will be, they should be posted clearly and prominently. Hopefully, you are not aiming for a narrowly constrained range of opinion under the constant threat of communist-like speech control and the ever present threat of being disappeared in the midst of the night and erased from the official record.

  83. None of your business None of your business June 8, 2022

    ” The Russian state military has over the last 3 months engaged in a number of rocket attacks on Lviv, the birthplace of Ludwig von Mises, but the “Mises” Caucus does not condemn Russian state aggression. ”

    Russia’s heroic mission of national self-defense against Ukrainian nazis and expansionist NATO aggression is by no means state aggression.

  84. None of your business None of your business June 8, 2022

    Ron Paul and Patrick Buchanan are indeed important influences on Donald Trump. I am proud to have voted for and supported Ron Paul in 1988 (general election), 2008 and 2012 (primaries), Pat Buchanan in 1992 and 1996 (primaries) and 2000 (general election), as well as a write-in vote for Pat in 2004 when he no longer sought the Presidency. I am likewise proud to have voted for and supported Donald Trump in the primary and general elections of 2016 and 2020, and look forward to so doing again in 2024.

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