Greens want reparations

Green Party Watch reports

[A recent] vote by the House of Representatives to apologize for slavery and Jim Crow segregation laws may provoke a discussion on reparations for descendants of African slaves. Cynthia McKinney and Rosa Clemente are on record in support of such reparations, and the Green Party platform has the following to say on the subject:

People of color in this country have legitimate claims to reparations in the form of monetary compensation for centuries of discrimination. We also uphold the right of the descendants of African slaves to self-determination, as we do for all indigenous peoples.

The article goes on the discuss what type of reparations would be best, and how they should be administered. Many questions of who exactly should get reparations and who should pay them are also discussed.

57 thoughts on “Greens want reparations

  1. Sivarticus

    Complete and utter trash. The Greens have become the New Black Panther Party. I hope they’re even more of an insignificant fringe party after this election. I’m sure I’m with the vast majority of Americans when I say you will have to pry an apology and money out of my cold, dead, white hands. My ancestors weren’t even in the United States in 1865 or before.

    I will never apologize nor pay for something that neither myself nor my family had anything to do with. Greens and the black nationalists are hellbent on installing reverse racist policies for special handouts.

  2. Sivarticus

    Oh yeah, and that little Greeny platform icon is the usual far left hypocrisy. “Self-determination” eh? Funny how McKinney proudly displays her endorsement from the Worker’s World Party. This is a commie faction that upholds China’s tyranny over countless indigenous peoples, as well as the Soviet interventions that crushed national uprisings in Hungary (1956) and Czechoslovakia (1968).

    Yeah, the Greens and the rest of the far left support self-determination, alright. As long as it’s white capitalists doing the oppressing.

  3. donald raymond lake

    Oh puleeeese!

    The Corporate interests, including high profile smugglers in the Colonial fight for independence from the royal merchantile corporations [West India Company, East India Company, etc]!

    The CEOs [grandsons of Missionaries] bullying the Christain Hawaiian royalty of Honolulu?

    G. E. —–Painting with the biggest brush in the Libertarian Hardware store!

  4. Sivarticus

    Way to ignore communist crimes by citing a few miserable instances of business malfeasance, Don. None of the pathetic instances you mention even come close to the huge brush strokes of red the beastly regimes of the USSR, China, and North Korea have painted the world with. And McKinney is happy to lap up the support of a lapdog organization for communists.

    I guess “self-determination” doesn’t apply to those poor Hungarians, Czechs, Slovaks, East Germans, and others brutalized by the Soviet Empire. At least, Worker’s World loudly and proudly doesn’t think so. And neither does McKinney if she is so happy to have their support. But then, too bad for them, eh? They were white and being held down by commies, so screw ’em!

    No reparations for the slave labor and mass murder that built the Soviet Empire. That would just be too taboo for the radical left demanding taxpayers and business fork over money to ex-slaves, colonies, tribes, etc.

  5. Sivarticus

    Excuse me, I should say the third generation or more descendants of slaves, that is. There are no ex-slaves living to feed our money to, which is just one more reason reparations is an enormous black nationalist scam.

  6. Steven R Linnabary

    I wasn’t aware that the descendants of African slaves were indigenous peoples.

    Didn’t Bill Clinton apologize for slavery ten or twelve years ago?

    Snarkiness aside, a demand for reparations may be a shrewd campaign tactic, albeit one I wouldn’t use.

    PEACE
    Steve

  7. Nexus

    Everyone has the right to self-determination, but no one has the right to someone elses property.

  8. Nexus

    Now that I think about it, reparations is just another form of wealth redistribution. Since the average US voter already puts up with the one, why wouldn’t they put up with the other?

  9. Gail

    Nexus, remember that “slaves” were considered “property.”

    It seems to me that reparations in some form are fair. As a white woman, I understand that even today I economically benefit from slavery. While my ancestors were accumulating wealth and property (that was passed down through the generations to me) slaves were not allowed to own property. After slavery ended in the United States, continuing oppressive discrimination still kept African-Americans from gathering wealth.

    I, for one, am ashamed at this part of our history and would be happy to cough up a few dollars to partially make this situation correct.

  10. Mike Theodore

    Unfortunately, I have no doubt that with media coercion, the voters would take it. Guilt mainly.
    I don’t get it.
    Most of our relatives were out of the country when it went down. My dad’s family came from Greece when he was 16, mom’s side from Poland during the depression. Hell, my mom was part of the civil rights movement for creepers deepers sake!

    But all in all, it’s my fault. I admit it. I was behind the whole bloody thing. Remember…few hundred years ago? I guess not.
    Well, anyway. TAKE ALL I HAVE!!!

  11. Mike Theodore

    “I, for one, am ashamed at this part of our history and would be happy to cough up a few dollars to partially make this situation correct.”

    OK, what’s stopping you?
    If you find yourself responsible for the ages of ignorance, please, claim responsibility. But myself, and my relatives (the one’s I know), were not involved. But we’re white, so why not?
    If you believe that throwing money at people will make them forget the past, go ahead. But you’ll notice that the pages of history remain.

    In the end of the history book, it won’t say “but in the end, Gail made all the problems go away through reparations!”
    (Sorry, not sure if that’s your real name)

    Look, if I had family that were slave owners, I’d apologize on my family’s behalf. If I am somehow related to a few, well I’m sorry. But I don’t remember being there. This, just like most things that are taken out of taxes, won’t fix the designated problem.
    I wish it could.

    Burn the history books next, that might help.

  12. Gail

    Mike:

    It is not your fault, but “we” white folks benefit from discrimination which had its roots in the business of state-endorsed slavery.

    Nothing is stopping me. I have donated a few dollars to C.U.R.E. in the past…..

    My feeling is that since I benefit from this atrocious past act our government and since I reap the benefits derived from it, even today, that it is fair for me to try and make the situation somehow better.

    That said, I understand and respect your opinion. We are just looking at this from different perspectives.

  13. Gail

    PS:

    I said “make the situation correct.” I should have said “help make this situation more correct.” Obviously, reparations will not entirely solve the problem of discrimination, oppression, etc. today…

  14. Nexus

    “Nexus, remember that “slaves” were considered “property.”

    Yes they were. I believe that ended some 150 years ago.

    “It seems to me that reparations in some form are fair.”

    Taking someones private property and giving it to someone else is never fair.

    “As a white woman, I understand that even today I economically benefit from slavery.”

    I understand that economic success is something you earn through hard work, following your dreams, and believing in yourself. Race doesn’t guarentee you success or failure.

    “While my ancestors were accumulating wealth and property (that was passed down through the generations to me) slaves were not allowed to own property. ”

    Wealth has to be created. It doesn’t come from a vacuum. There are no slaves anymore. Anyone can own property and should be free to do with it as they wish.

    “After slavery ended in the United States, continuing oppressive discrimination still kept African-Americans from gathering wealth.”

    Every minority has had to deal with discrimination. It’s a terrible thing, but it doesn’t entitle anyone to my private property.

    “I, for one, am ashamed at this part of our history and would be happy to cough up a few dollars to partially make this situation correct.”

    If you want to live your life that way, your free to do so. I choose not to.

  15. Gail

    “Race doesn’t guarantee you success or failure.”

    No it does not.

    That said, why should one class of people have a societal advantage over another?

    And it seems to me that those who benefit owe it to the ones oppressed to make things “more fair.”

    “There are no slaves anymore.”

    Correct, but as the song says, “the beat goes on….”

  16. Nexus

    “That said, why should one class of people have a societal advantage over another?”

    Life isn’t fair. Get over it. If there are barriers to your success, knock them down! Overcome them. It can be done, you know. There are successful african-americans.

    “And it seems to me that those who benefit owe it to the ones oppressed to make things “more fair.”

    A fair society is a free society. We all want that. But there is nothing fair or free about taking someones private property and giving it to someone else.

  17. Gail

    I guess I don’t understand how, in a just society, that certain groups of people should be given an unfair advantage. Don’t we, as the people who make up society, have an obligation to make it more just?

    I believe that if I have received an advantage (read:wealth) through an injustice, that I, as a member of society, should give up part of that wealth to help correct the problem.

    To me, it’s all about fairness. And I believe it is the government’s (who are We the People) responsibility to facilitate this wealth transfer.

    Thank you, Mike, and others for the respectful discussion.

  18. Mike Theodore

    “Don’t we, as the people who make up society, have an obligation to make it more just?”

    Your living under the light illusion that white people still are the sinister controllers of society. If you haven’t noticed, the vast majority of America doesn’t care what race is in charge. We’re pretty bound to have a black president soon (who’s this McCain chap?).

    “I believe that if I have received an advantage (read:wealth) through an injustice, that I, as a member of society, should give up part of that wealth to help correct the problem.”

    I don’t think I did. My dad was an immigrant, who the past has treated unfairly countless of times, yet he doesn’t believe he should be justified for that. He just worked. As did my mom through med school. Hell, I’ll do the same thing. I actually have to pass the obstacle of colleges picking people for the sake of equality, rather than grades.
    I don’t know a single person who lives on land that there family (and race?) occupied since after the civil war. Everyone buy’s there own property nowadays.

    “To me, it’s all about fairness. ”

    Fairness is your own ability to contribute to yourself. There are no more racial barriers, it’s all individual now.

    “And I believe it is the government’s (who are We the People) responsibility to facilitate this wealth transfer.”

    Gail, the government transferring (stealing) wealth never EVER ends as well intentioned as thought. Hell will be raised, and less than half of that money will not reach it’s little target.

    “Thank you, Mike, and others for the respectful discussion.”

    Just trying to get it out of the way before the other Libertarians come in and yell at you, calling you a socialist. Word of warning, they do that. 😀

  19. Gail

    Is being called a socialist a bad thing? 😉

    “We’re pretty bound to have a black president soon”

    Yes! President McKinney!

    I have to go to work now, but when I get back, we’ll talk a tad about:

    “There are no more racial barriers, it’s all individual now. ”

    Til then….

  20. Fred Church Ortiz

    I’ve been trying to figure out how this would effect me. The article suggests providing reparations to Latinos “many of whom have been modern day slaves working at extremely low wages and in substandard conditions due to the exploitation of illegal immigration.” I get by, and my mother came here legally, but she did work in textiles when she first came, so I’m going to assume I’m getting half a check here.

    My father’s half Russian, and those parts are constituted by ethnic minorities that had some antipathy from the majority Slavs, and we’re also including minorities that were discriminated against in their home countries while “America did nothing”, so I think I’m entitled another 1/4 of a check here. If paulie buys me a beer I’m willing to simmer my angst so the healing can begin, but no need for Uncle Sam to know I’m over it.

    So far I’m up to 3/4 of a check, but as a Church I’m probably liable for at least 1/4 of the Anglo penalty. But having researched my genealogy, I know that the whitest branches of my family tree were dirt farmers that lived in free states for the entire length of time there was such a thing, so I have to assume they’ll get leeway for good behavior and sharing in the plight of the underclass. So my white guilt payment should be pretty steady at about 1/8th the national average.

    Quite the positive feedback loop I have here. But I’ll need to examine Alan Keyes’ reparations plan before I decide which is closer to my rational self interest.

  21. Thomas M. Sipos

    To some extent, reparations have already been paid.

    It’s true that, in the U.S., past collectivist injustices have disproportionately harmed blacks.

    But recent collectivist entitlements (welfare, food stamps, public schooling, affirmative action), have disproportionately benefited blacks. (Assuming a handout is a benefit.)

    Is the past harm greater or lesser than the recent entitlements? How do you measure something like that?

  22. paulie cannoli Post author

    If paulie buys me a beer I’m willing to simmer my angst so the healing can begin, but no need for Uncle Sam to know I’m over it.

    I’ll buy you a beer, but not for the Russian thing. Here in America, all of us who are from ex-USSR are “Russians.” Over there, we were (including most of my people) Jews, and some Buryat (Siberian natives closely related to Mongolians). Only a smidgeon of actual Rus and Ukrainian, along with some Alsatian, and there you have me, A(mong rel)atives.

  23. paulie cannoli Post author

    I wasn’t aware that the descendants of African slaves were indigenous peoples.

    The article also discusses reparations for Native Americans. Have you read it?

    Some of you all may want to leave comments at Green Party Watch as well.

  24. ronaldkanehardy

    One of my grandfather’s ancestors owned one of my grandmother’s ancestors in Virginia.

    Race is a tricky issue in America today. I believe that we are slowly but surely moving away from blatent racial categorization and seeing a rise in mixed race and mixed racial identity, as well as mixed racial self identity.

    It is very important not to forget the past, and to not downplay the level of racism that has existed in America for over 100 years since the “Emancipation”, and that still exists today.

    Few want to take the blame for the actions of their ancestors, nor for the actions of their government. Consider Germany’s recovery from Nazi Germany and the struggle that that nation’s people must have gone through with self-identity, connection to the past, and internalized guilt or no guilt.

    It is easy to take this issue of Reparations and simplify it to “they want a pay off” or “they want to take my proper-tay” but in my opinion it isn’t about that at all. I think dialogue and discussion about the role race has played historically, and the role race plays today, is healthy and good and should continue.

    There is still racism in America today. That can NOT be denied.

    My “known” racial heritage: English, Welsh, Slovak, Dutch, French. In America that translates to: New York, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Indiana, Iowa. That is where my people came from.

    My racial “Identity”: white.

  25. rob in cal

    One question is, would descendants of black slave owners also be on the hook? There weren’t that many, but there were a few. There’s an intresting book about it (sorry can’t recall the name).
    Also, while were at it, how about hitting up the current governments of Algeria and Tunisia for reparations for American slaves of the Barbary Coast pirates. There were thousands of Americans captured by them and then enslaved in horrible conditions.
    Also, what about descendants of all those handed over by the US forces at the end of WW 2 to Soviet forces, under Operation Keelhaul. This represented a clear case of slave trading by the US government, in which US soldiers were ordered to hand over various East European, Russian, Baltic etc peoples to Soviet forces, with many, most likely the majority, then serving in Soviet slave labor camps.

  26. cbennett

    As an African-American I want my reparations not for the same reasons the Green Party cites above. The American people need relief from the Federal Gov’t by abolishing the IRS, Income Tax and overturning the 16th Amendment. That’s true reparations that will benefit everyone!

  27. Fred Church Ortiz

    I’ll buy you a beer, but not for the Russian thing. Here in America, all of us who are from ex-USSR are “Russians.” Over there, we were (including most of my people) Jews, and some Buryat (Siberian natives closely related to Mongolians).

    Well if we were Jews there and Russians here, we’ll have to call it comradeship instead of reparations. But now I have to direct my angst elsewhere, life’s so hard 🙁

    Ron:
    I believe that we are slowly but surely moving away from blatent racial categorization and seeing a rise in mixed race and mixed racial identity, as well as mixed racial self identity.

    I tried earlier to display the conundrum of a mixed race person in the light of this kind of proposal. Need I feel guilty for what members of some of my ancestors’ race did, while elsewhere in the world other branches lived in as great or greater conditions of discrimination and economic underdevelopment? Is a government agency really going to assess my bloodlines to determine how liable I am for what my forefathers and I never did, or are we all going to participate in the same wealth redistribution scheme, so that successful minorities get to pitch in to atone for the white man’s government as well? I don’t think we’re talking “reparations” anymore if the latter.

  28. G.E.

    donald raymond lake, chief welfare agitator — Capitalism is the peaceful exchange of goods and services for mutual benefit. Anyone who engages in acts of oppression is not a capitalist. Idiot.

  29. Nexus

    “I guess I don’t understand how, in a just society, that certain groups of people should be given an unfair advantage.”

    There will always be groups with advantages, fair and unfair. Smart people have an advantage on dumb ones. Beautiful people have an edge on ugly ones. Hard working people have an edge on lazy ones. Many factors give you an edge when it comes to success. Race I think is way down the list.

    “Don’t we, as the people who make up society, have an obligation to make it more just?”

    We obviously have different ideas about what a just society is.

    “I believe that if I have received an advantage (read:wealth) through an injustice, that I, as a member of society, should give up part of that wealth to help correct the problem.”

    Believe it or not, the majority of wealthy people aren’t the Wal Mart airs. Most wealthy people have earned it through building or expanding a business. These are people of vision and energy. Most, if not all, would still be successful no matter what their race. I don’t find it just or fair to punish people for being successful.

    “To me, it’s all about fairness.”

    Fairness of what? Oppertunity or outcome. The former I believe in. The latter doesn’t exist.

    “And I believe it is the government’s (who are We the People) responsibility to facilitate this wealth transfer.”

    The governments responsibility is to protect the rights of the individual. It’s in the Declaration of Independence. The government has been trying wealth redistribution on a large scale since the great depression. Has it ended poverty or racism? Nope, and it’s not going to. All wealth transfer does is lead to calls for more wealth transfer.

  30. Nexus

    “Is being called a socialist a bad thing? ”

    To a libertarian, yes.

    “Yes! President McKinney!”

    I admire your sense of hope, but I believe McKinney will have the lowest vote total in Green history.

  31. G.E.

    1. Slaves were victims of aggression.

    2. Victims of aggression have a right to recover damages from those who aggressed against them.

    3. If the aggressor is dead, then a lien may be placed against his estate.

    4. If the “aggressee” is dead, then his heirs may have title to his claim.

    Anyone who denies the four points above is not a libertarian and does not believe in property rights.

    Now the question is whether these claims can be sorted out. Can an individual prove he is the descendant of a slave, and can he identify the estate of his ancestor’s aggressor? Can he prove, at least by civil standards, that his ancestors, in a direct line, intended him to collect on the judgment they were owed? Can he approve that the aggressor’s estate has been transferred?

    If no, then there is no basis for claims to be paid.

    Demanding blanket slave reparations is no more absurd than me trying to find the descendants of the cave man who clubbed my great*2000 grandma over the head with a rock and raped her and suing them.

  32. Sivarticus

    Again, reparations and an apology for something I had nothing at all to do with will have to be pried from my cold, dead, white hands. Especially if it’s ever imposed by an elected idiot like McNutty who is proud of being supported by a group that covers up the brutish murder and torture of countless Eastern European subjects by the Soviets.

    Forced reparations from white American taxpayers is the quickest path to race and class violence the likes of which this nation hasn’t seen for a century. And, of course, it will be the well meaning lefties and black nationalists who impose it. By the way, if you assholes are feeling so guilty, how about you set up your own organization and donate?

    I will only say this: if the pity party reverse racists EVER actually succeed in passing a reparations bill, they had better kill the Second Amendment and disarm the citizenry before sending the IRS to collect the money.

  33. Fred Church Ortiz

    I chose not to take that route, as we’re dealing with non-libertarians and a blanket proposal. Tough to argue property rights with someone that just plain doesn’t believe in them.

  34. Nexus

    GE
    My father told me once when I was a boy that there were slave owners in my family tree. I don’t know if it’s true or not. I do know that I have no estate. Nothing from those days was passed on to me. Everything I have now, I earned on my own. I do not believe anyone is entitled to my property over something that may or may not have occured 200 years ago. Does this stand mean I’m not a libertarian in your eyes?

    BTW, my great great grandfather fought in the Civil War on the union side from the slave state of Kentucky. He was not a slave owner.

  35. Washington

    Who was the biggest perpetrator of slavery in the US? Government? Nope, it was the Democratic Party (and Whigs) who controlled government. Why aren’t reparations supporters going after the Democratic Party as enemy number 1 to get their payments, that is assuming their rhetoric isn’t empty? And what about other “groups” that have been oppressed or even enslaved by the political parties in control of government. Native American, Mexican, Alaskan, Hawaiian, Women, Chinese, Japanese, Irish, Russian, Catholic, Protestant, Atheist, Agnostic, “other” political party supporters, petitioners, protestors, and a long list of “groups” oppressed by the ruling political parties using the government for their power to do so. Where are the reparation supporters’ calls for reparations for those “groups”, that is if their rhetoric isn’t just empty political hot air? Is it that reparation supporters are also being racist when they purposefully leave out others also enslaved and oppressed? Doesn’t their silence about “others” oppression that continues to this day in fact perpetuate that oppression and make them just as guilty as people of today for black slaveryand discrimination?

    So we’re all guilty of oppression and slavery and we all owe each other reparations. Wonderful, it’s a wash, done deal. And if you don’t believe that and think we need to enslave our current labor to pay descendents then at least its hard to disagree that the aggressors were first the individuals that did it and then the Democratic, Whig, Republican etc. parties and that they used government as a weapon and should held accountable. Government is absolved for blame every election.

  36. Gail

    Wow. there is so much said since I was last here that I don’t know where to start. Since I only have a few minutes, I’ll make one point that I think is important to the discussion:

    A few people have talked about how this would be implemented. That I do not know or have yet to figure out. It is very complicated.

    I feel that the first step would be to pass H.R. 40 which authorizes a study of reparations. At least then we would have a starting point.

    I believe that we must initially recognize that this is a just thing to do. From there we (all parties involved) can start discussing the fair implementation of reparations.

    Discussion is a good thing. A well done study to base it on is a really helpful tool.

    Gotta run….

  37. Trent Hill

    Rediculous.

    My ancestors came from Ireland a little over 100 years ago. They did not own slaves.

    However, if they had come over 200 years ago and owned slaves–no one would be prying my money from my hands to give to someone iv never met, harmed, or wished ill upon. That my great-great-grandfather hurt your great-great-grandfather has nothing to do with me or you. You were born into a nation where if you work hard enough, you make money. And you are afforded the same (in some cases, more) chances as me. For me to have to “pay” you for the historical injustices against your people is absurd. Are these same people going to send their lawyers to Africa to find out which black African sold their ancestors into slavery too? No. This is reverse-racism in action.

  38. G.E.

    My father told me once when I was a boy that there were slave owners in my family tree. I don’t know if it’s true or not. I do know that I have no estate. Nothing from those days was passed on to me. Everything I have now, I earned on my own. I do not believe anyone is entitled to my property over something that may or may not have occured 200 years ago. Does this stand mean I’m not a libertarian in your eyes?

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    Now the question is whether these claims can be sorted out. Can an individual prove he is the descendant of a slave, and can he identify the estate of his ancestor’s aggressor? Can he prove, at least by civil standards, that his ancestors, in a direct line, intended him to collect on the judgment they were owed? Can he approve that the aggressor’s estate has been transferred?

    If no, then there is no basis for claims to be paid.

    But yes, if you disagree with the first four points, then I don’t see how you can possibly be a libertarian.

    Do aggressors owe those they aggress against compensation?

    Is the title to that compensation a transferable asset (property)?

    If you can’t answer yes to both of those questions, then no, you’re not a libertarian in my eyes (or anyone else’s who has any kind of standards).

  39. G.E.

    Trent – Let’s say your family owned a huge plantation back in the day and made the equivalent of millions of dollars via slave labor. Then, the estate was passed directly to the oldest son for x generations, until you received it upon the death of your father.

    Now let’s say the 1,000 slaves all continued to live near the plantation, and intermarried exclusively within that pool of 1,000.

    Question: Would the direct descendants of those 1,000 slaves have a claim on your assets?

    If not, why not?

  40. G.E.

    If a corporation is responsible for damages to me, and the damages go unpaid, the title to those damages can be willed to my heirs.

    So the questions are:

    1. Were slaves victims who were owed compensation?

    2. If so, then why are their heirs not entitled?

    These are separate questions from the question “Who is to pay?”

  41. Trent Hill

    Assuming that only the assets that were passed DIRECTLY from my great-great-great-grandfather are open to claim?

    So if my grandfather made 1million off of these slaves and then died,leaving 1million to my father,who then reinvested that million into silver bonds, which tripled his holdings. Is this 3 million dollars open to claim? Or only the original 1 million in silver-bonds? Or are those silver-bonds now untouchable because they are not the EXACT asset gained from said slaves?

    Frankly–the whole thing is theoretical. First, the slave-descdendent has to find out who his slave-ancestor was,and who owned him. Then he has to determine who the descendent of that slave-owner was. Then he’d have to determine that the descendent somehow profitted from his ancestor’s holdings. Then he’d have to show that he did not similarly profit from the slave-holding. And also that the assets left behind were DIRECTLY transferable to said descendent.

  42. G.E.

    Frankly–the whole thing is theoretical. First, the slave-descdendent has to find out who his slave-ancestor was,and who owned him. Then he has to determine who the descendent of that slave-owner was. Then he’d have to determine that the descendent somehow profitted from his ancestor’s holdings. Then he’d have to show that he did not similarly profit from the slave-holding. And also that the assets left behind were DIRECTLY transferable to said descendent.

    Yes, I agree. I said that above.

  43. TheOriginalAndy

    “Cynthia McKinney and Rosa Clemente are on record in support of such reparations,”

    I like some of the things which Cynthia McKinney supports, but this is a good reason to NOT vote for her.

  44. johncjackson

    I agree with GE on the reparations issue.

    I disagree with Sivarticus that the Green Party is becoming the New Black Panther Party. or maybe I don’t- that depends on if he means a new version of the old Black Panther party or the actual New Black Panther Party ( I just caught that distinction). I don’t know much about the NBPP but I think the old Black Panther Party was awesome.

  45. G.E.

    Not really “awesome” but not villainous either. They were racially collectivist and Marxist. However, I believe their orientation was non-initiation of force, self-determination, self-defense, etc. Murray Rothbard supported them.

  46. G.E.

    Ultimately, it comes to this: In a free society, the descendant of a slave could sue for damages against an entity that he felt owed him. He would have to present evidence that the slaveowner’s estate had been transferred (with documentation) as had the right to collect on it. If he was unable to prove this, then the jury would not award him reparations.

  47. Steven R Linnabary

    If reparations actually becomes an issue, proponents should remember what happens when a person wins a lawsuit against the State of Ohio for something such as wrongful imprisonment.

    Typically, the person wins an amount that is on the order of $50,000 to $75,000 for each year of imprisonment. Then the state says that it ‘s cost to keep them imprisoned was around $30,000 per year, and this amount is deducted.

    If reparations does become a reality, will there be deductions for the free trip over here, free housing and food, guaranteed jobs for life, etc.?

    You can’t underestimate the vulgarity of some people.

    PEACE
    Steve

  48. Steve LaBianca

    What Trent said goes for me as well. All my ancestors came to America between 1911 and 1916.

    Can yo imagine the bureaucacy needed to sort this thing out . . . who pays, who doesn’t, how much to pay to whom, and who should receive how much!

    Yeah, let’s leave this to the most inefficient, unjust organization ever devised, the largest agent of coercion and force . . . government!!!

    Good luck with that.

  49. Fundi

    After the injustice of the Japanese-American Internment, the U.S. government in 1988 (this is Reagan mind you!) officially apologized to Japanese-Americans for actions by the U.S. government were based on “race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership” and $1.6 billion dollars were paid in reparations to internees and next of kins.

    Now I understand the logistical difficulty of disbursing funds to families affected, but I for crying out loud. How about an apology at least. I know it can’t undo what’s been done or its massive reprecussions, but come on. No apology at least?

    While we’re at it, the U.S. government should apologize for the genocide of the Native Americans. Countries such as Canada, Australia, and New Zealand have already apologized to the indigenous peoples in those countries. Let’s put it on the record for future generations.

  50. Sivarticus

    The difference is the Japanese who received payouts were still alive. And Fundi, no, by God, there should not be a single apology. There are no overseers, antebellum Dixie politicians, or slave traders alive. The current government is not the Confederate government, nor the one in place before 1865.

    And if they want to “apologize” on behalf of white Americans, then I will tell them where to shove it. I will not allow my ostensibly representative government to say “I’m sorry” for me when I haven’t done anything wrong. I don’t know the dead slaves from Adam, and had no ancestors who were here to own them, so there is absolutely no reason I should apologize. Nor will I apologize to the Indians, Mexicans, Hawaiians, or any other ethnic group. Neither myself nor the government currently in power owes these groups anything. They are just human groups, like any other, with too many loathsome individuals looking for handouts and somewhere to place blame for their failures in life.

  51. G.E.

    Silvarticus – A debt instrument is not a transferable asset to one’s heirs?

    Why should the evil U.S. government not apologize? Wouldn’t it be appropriate for a U.S. corporation to apologize for working with the Nazis? How is the federal government different from a corporation, with its elected officials much like officers?

    An apology, of course, would be/is meaningless, since the same entity continues to shamelessly perpetuate evil all over the world. Kinda like a serial killer apologizing to the families of one victim, while in the process of murdering another!

  52. G.E.

    Even payments to the Japanese are problematic since the government’s only source of money is tax dollars.

    Better idea: The U.S. government should have disolved in 1988, paid the Japanese their share, paid off the debt, paid reparations to African Ameicans, Naties, etc. I don’t care if I don’t get nothing, so long as the government commits suicide.

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