Robert Ringer: The Truth About the Israeli “Occupiers”

Now that our dear leader has again shown his contempt for Israel and his sentimental attachment to radical Muslims, Israelis are feeling the heat from Jew haters worldwide more than at any time since World War II.  Obama’s modern-day version of the final solution is for Israel to simply cooperate in its own suicide by giving up the Golan Heights, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.  (Predictably, he has since fudged a bit on the issue for political purposes.)

In exchange, the Israelis would get … you guessed it … absolutely nothing!  The Muslims don’t even need the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.  If Israel just gave the Golan Heights back to Syria (whom, we are reminded by Hillary Goofus, is ruled by a “reformer”), it would cease to exist in about a month.  Nothing like looking down on your enemies from above and having the luxury of choosing the most efficient way to destroy them.

In 1967, after years of threatening to “wipe Israel off the map,” Egypt and other Arab countries finally mustered the courage to attack.  They huffed and they puffed and … well, they blew their own house down, humiliating themselves and the entire Arab world in the process.  Israel’s superior military forces crushed the puff-prone Arabs in six days, from whence came the name “Six-Day War.”

Since then, land annexed by the Israelis following that war has been referred to by the Muslim world and progressives in the Western world as “the occupied territories.”  But what those who rail on about “Israeli occupation” of these territories either don’t realize or fail to acknowledge is that immediately following the Six-Day War, the Israeli government, in a gesture of goodwill, offered to return the Golan Heights to Syria, the Sinai peninsula to Egypt, and most of the West Bank to Jordan in exchange for peace.

The defeated Arab nations responded to Israel’s offer by arrogantly declaring “no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, and no negotiations with Israel.”  Hmm … not a whole lot of incentive for Israel to try to please their attackers.

An important fact of life that no one ever seems to mention when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian land dispute is that when you win a war, you take whatever pleases you (unless, of course, you’re the United States of America).  When a bunch of lunatics who spend their lives focused on death and destruction threaten to kill you, then attack you, why in the world would they expect you to give back their land after you crush them?  It’s simply not the way life works.

Here’s a tip to nations around the globe who harbor fantasies about hegemony:  If you don’t want your land taken from you, don’t attack another country.  Period.  The Arab world needs to man up and take responsibility for the consequences of its actions.  I think most Americans have passed the point of compassion fatigue when it comes to the Arab victimization game.

But there’s yet a harsher reality.  Even if someone attacks you, and you lose, history teaches us that you’re still likely to have to give up some or all of your land.  After the Normans invaded England in 1066 A.D., they didn’t negotiate with the Anglo-Saxons.  They simply took over, and today, nearly a thousand years later, no one questions the legitimacy of the British Royal Family.

It all comes under the heading of the Kick-Butt Reality of War, which is a subheading of life’s number-one rule:  Life Isn’t Fair.  Thus, it’s not surprising that neither the Maoris in New Zealand nor the Aboriginals in Australia ever got their lands back from the English.  Though they are now independent nations, the descendents of their English conquerors pretty much run things Down Under.

The Maoris aren’t naïve enough to believe they’re ever going to get New Zealand back, nor do the Aboriginals believe they’re going to be handed the keys to Australia.  Instead, the Maoris have pretty much fit into the Western way of life, and even the Aboriginals, who were treated much more shabbily than the Maoris, are making significant strides in acclimating to Western culture.

What makes the so-called Palestinian situation unique is that the Jews were already in old Jerusalem as far back as 6,000 years ago.  But who got there first is a mute point, at best, because the city has been destroyed twice and changed hands forty-four times over the millennium.

Further, the Jews insist that God gave them the land, and that’s a pretty strong debating point to overcome, even if you don’t agree with it.  The truth is that the situation is so complex that no one knows all the facts, and, worse, most of the loudest voices (such as those in Hollywood) know almost none of the facts.  But some things are crystal clear.

First, Israel took a virtual wasteland and built it into a modern, democratic, wealthy nation that has given the world incredible breakthroughs in medicine, science, and technology.

Second, the so-called Palestinians have spent sixty-four years painting themselves as victims, living in poverty as a result of corrupt leaders (such as Yasser Arafat, who diverted billions in foreign-aid to his personal bank accounts abroad), failing to engage in entrepreneurship, and dissipating their energies by focusing on their hatred of Israelis.

Third, thousands of wars throughout history have left millions of people unhappy. Again, life isn’t fair, and the Kick-Butt Reality of Life always prevails, regardless of whether it displeases some people. (Think American Indians.) What I’m saying here is that the so-called Palestinian displacement is not unique. It’s time for Arabs to get over it and start focusing on living productive lives.

The “Mid-East peace process” is a myth. When TV talking heads use a cliché like “jumpstart the Mid-East peace talks,” you have to wonder if they’re serious. The reality is that there will never be peace between Muslims and Israelis. How can you have peace when the stated goal of one side is to exterminate the other?

To make matters worse, we now have a U.S. president who encouraged the removal of one of our strongest allies, Hosni Mubarak, which opened the door for his beloved Muslim Brotherhood pals to take power. This, in turn, will likely lead to the abrogation of Egypt’s peace treaty with Israel.

Having said all this, I will make an unequivocal prediction right here and now: If Israel were ever to be destroyed and the Jews were banished from the Holy Land, nothing would change for Mid-East Muslims. Nothing!

In other words, the fact that Jews now control Israel is a red herring. If Israel disappeared tomorrow, radical Muslims would start a frantic search for a new devil to blame for their dysfunctional lives. Nothing will change for the so-called Palestinians until they start acting like responsible adults and hold themselves accountable for their own failures.

They need to understand that when you continue to do the same thing over and over again, you’re going to get the same result. Muslims worldwide need to start getting up every morning and focusing on constructive pursuits rather than spending all their time plotting new ways to kill Jews. To use a well-worn cliché, they need to get a life.

You have permission to reprint this article so long as you place the following wording at the end of the article:
Copyright © 2011 Robert Ringer
ROBERT RINGER is the author of three #1 bestsellers and host of the highly acclaimed Liberty Education Interview Series, which features interviews with top political, economic, and social leaders. Ringer has appeared on numerous national talk shows and has been the subject of feature articles in such major publications as Time, People, The Wall Street Journal, Fortune, Barron’s, and The New York Times.

 

77 thoughts on “Robert Ringer: The Truth About the Israeli “Occupiers”

  1. Aaron Starr Post author

    Robert Ringer wrote the book “Restoring the American Dream” back in 1980. The book urged people to join the Libertarian Party.

    I was one of those bright-eyed recruits. I have been actively involved with the LP ever since.

  2. The Price of Conquered Land

    Even if someone attacks you, and you lose, history teaches us that you’re still likely to have to give up some or all of your land.

    America annexed Mexican territory — and granted citizenship to its residents.

    Israel should annex the land — and grant citizenship to its Arab residents.

    Instead, Israel wants to keep the land, but not the people. Unlike the U.S.

  3. Just Asking

    Yeah, Michael’s right. Take your pro-Israel propaganda to another forum…

  4. Deran

    This sort of pandering to the Israeli government has nothing at all to do with US, or even non-US, minor parties or independent candaites or office holders.

    This article is full of offensive racialist lies and is not a basis for any open discussion — on a forum where such a discussion would be appropriate.

    I would hope IPR will remove this.

    Frankly, I’d rather read that crackpot Milnes drone on and on than read this sort of claptrap.

  5. Jill Pyeatt

    Okay, I read it. What is this article supposed to convince me of, again?

  6. LibertarianGirl

    Aaron , what are your thoughts on the perfectly executed but very uncool purge of all of Nevadas county affiliates? Pretty sure you know by now , im a little tiffed over it..:)

  7. Kleptocracy and You

    Hey, Milnes is a RESPECTED member of this little group !!! As soon as they get WW3 completely fired up you will know what it has to do with all of us. Then you’ll wish you had adored Milnes more.

    The truly sad part is these people are cousins but have been at odds for thousands of years and will be for thousands more. That is if Gov’t doesn’t completely scorch the place and the globe while they are working on Mideast PEACE.

    I too read the book and learned which party I should join. Most important I learned to shun government handouts in any form. I’ve tried to retain that for the past three decades. We must travel gov’t roads, but we don’t have to work a gov’t job !!!

    Israel is ahead of most but Ringer, a jew, fails to mention the $3 billion a year that is FORCED from US Taxpayers to help them. I have an idea !

    End All Foreign Aid Including Israel: http://rongstad.blogspot.com/2011/02/end-all-foreign-aid-including-israel.html

    Liberals believe government should take people’s earnings to give to poor people. Conservatives disagree. They think government should confiscate people’s earnings and give them to farmers and insolvent banks. The compelling issue to both conservatives and liberals is not whether it is legitimate for government to confiscate one’s property to give to another, the debate is over the disposition of the pillage. – Walter Williams

    Republicans campaign like Libertarians and govern like Democrats. – Harry Browne

  8. Palestinians ARE Victims

    the Jews insist that God gave them the land, and that’s a pretty strong debating point to overcome, even if you don’t agree with it.

    Huh? Is Ringer seriously saying that claiming that God told you to do something is a strong argument?

    Christian crusaders killed Jews and Muslims in the name of God.

    Al Queda kills non-Muslims in the name of God.

    I suppose there are serial killers who claim God’s voice told them to do it.

    Invoking God is a “pretty strong debating point”? I don’t think so!

    the so-called Palestinians…

    “So-called” Palestinians?

    If they’re not Palestinians, then what are they?

    Well, they live in Israel-occupied territory. If that land belongs to Israel, and they’re not Palestinians, then they must be Israeli Arabs.

    So annex the land, and give these Israeli Arabs the vote!

    …have spent sixty-four years painting themselves as victims…

    You mean the Palestinians aren’t victims?

    In 1948, though Palestinian Arabs were the majority, the U.N. partition gave most of the land to the Jewish state. The Palestinians kept resisted (understandably), lost (several times), and are treated as second-class citizens in Israel, and conquered subjects in the territories. How are they not victims?

    failing to engage in entrepreneurship, and dissipating their energies by focusing on their hatred of Israelis.

    It’s hard for Palestinians to engage in entrepreneurship when Israel can at any time confiscate their land, tear down their homes and farms, deny their right to extract water from their own land, deny building permits, deny business permits, freeze assets, close borders, deny freedom of travel, etc…

    Starr or Ringer should try to engage in “entrepreneurship” in a land that treats him by law as a second class citizen, due to his religion or ethnicity, whose rights can at any time be revoked by the whims, desires, or needs of the conquerors/occupiers.

  9. Robert Capozzi

    rr: Life Isn’t Fair. Thus, it’s not surprising that neither the Maoris in New Zealand nor the Aboriginals in Australia ever got their lands back from the English. …Instead, the Maoris have pretty much fit into the Western way of life, and even the Aboriginals, who were treated much more shabbily than the Maoris, are making significant strides in acclimating to Western culture.

    Me: Ouch. This sounds like: You lose. Tough. I do agree that “life isn’t fair” a lot of the time, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t do my best for it to be as fair as possible. If someone steals from me or Ringer, I dunno, I think it’s virtuous to have a justice system that makes the wrong right. Doesn’t Ringer?

    By Ringer’s logic, if the entire Arab world took Israel back, that might not be “fair,” but it’d be OK by him? Does he REALLY want to go there? I’m sure I don’t. The contemptuous tone he uses here doesn’t work for me.

    rr: If Israel disappeared tomorrow, radical Muslims would start a frantic search for a new devil to blame for their dysfunctional lives. Nothing will change for the so-called Palestinians until they start acting like responsible adults and hold themselves accountable for their own failures.

    Me: I see. So Ringer wants us to believe that the Palestinians are somehow inherently dysfunctional? “Their” childish behavior and “failures” is 100% on them?

    Really? So, as ObamaCare is imposed on US citizens, we get what we deserve.

    I’m sorry. This is a very dark worldview, one I don’t subscribe to. Yes, we should deal with injustice, for it’s a world full of injustice. But reversing injustice seems worthwhile, too.

    The more interesting question is what the US should or should not do about this seemingly intractable conflict. Manipulating it is not working, IMO. Tactfully extricating from it makes a lot more sense to me.

  10. Robert Capozzi

    As for taking this down, I disagree. I like that it’s up on IPR. Now I’d like to see an essay from an L who is hysterically anti Israel, too.

    Neither argument makes sense, but the extreme poles illustrate how neither is pro peace and liberty.

    The Middle Way is not always optimal, but my goodness it often is!

  11. Steven R Linnabary

    But who got there first is a mute point,

    And when a writer mangle’s the English language, everything he says becomes moot…

    PEACE

  12. George Phillies

    “In 1967, after years of threatening to “wipe Israel off the map,” Egypt and other Arab countries finally mustered the courage to attack. ”

    This is historically backwards.

    “If you don’t want your land taken from you, don’t attack another country. ” In 1967 the Arabs did not launch the war, the Jews did.

    Readers may also recall the Franco Prussian war, in which the French were provoked into attacking, the Prussians to Alsace-Lorraine, that the Prussians thus guaranteed that the French would be their enemy in every future war, until in the end Prussia was quite literally wiped from the map, Prussia now being part of Poland, Lithuania, and Russia, and populated by those peoples.

    Careful readers will also recall that the ancient Romans conquered the place and expelled its Jewish inhabitants, thus rendering their claims one with the claims of the prior long list of owners, such as the Egyptians and the Caliphate.

    Indeed, the reasonable suggestion is that the entire piece is satire, an effort to see if you can publish something so nonsensical that no one will take it seriously. After all, you’d have to be a total idiot to propose that it is a strong argument that a particular piece of land belongs to you because you believe that your god gave it to you, a non-verifiable claim made by a substantial number of major religions, such as the Catholics and the Baptists and the Lutherans, many of which on an interesting day deny that the others are Christians.

  13. AroundtheblockAFT

    Big contradiction – if Syria got the Golan Heights it would be able to fire down on Israel and it would “cease to exist in about a month?” Yet Ringer also says the Israelis offered the GH back to Syria at the end of the 6 day war. So just how strategic is this “high ground” given today’s military technology? An artillery platform like GH was important in the Napoleonic wars or our Civil War, but today any attempt to use it would put Damascus under the thumb of a pretty darn effective Israeli air force. I guess Ringer meant that it would by Syria that would “cease to exist in about a month!”

  14. George Phillies

    Actually, using warfare to seize someone else’s territory is a war crime. And launching an attack on a nuclear power is rather certainly a suicidal act.

    On the other hand, if you are a really completely off the wall type, you satirize yourself, and make your allies out to be fools and lunatics.

  15. Darryl W. Perry

    “when you win a war, you take whatever pleases you (unless, of course, you’re the United States of America). “

    That must explain why there are still only 13 States in the Union… not to mention absolutely NO territories and no “puppet” governments around the world controlled by the US gov’t.

  16. NewFederalist

    Yes… this reaffirms my dedication to Vote Prohibition! (That was the point of this, right?)

  17. Perry's Blind Spot

    Perry @ 20 seemed to have missed (or intentionally ignored?) the point @3.

    Perry: That must explain why there are still only 13 States in the Union…blah, blah, blah

    As was written @3:

    America annexed Mexican territory — and granted citizenship to its residents.

    Israel should annex the land — and grant citizenship to its Arab residents.

    Instead, Israel wants to keep the land, but not the people. Unlike the U.S.

    Israel is NOT like the U.S.

    IF Israel annexed its conquered territory and gave full voting citizenship rights to the Arabs living there, THEN Israel would be comparable to the U.S.

    You take the land, you take the people — even if it does change your nation’s racial/religious makeup.

    But if you don’t care for people of a “wrong” race, ethnicity, or religion, and you don’t want to incorporate those people — then don’t incorporate their land.

  18. Ras Putin

    What does this article have to do with third parties

    The connection does seem rather weak.

    Israel should annex the land — and grant citizenship to its Arab residents.

    Instead, Israel wants to keep the land, but not the people.

    The Arabs and the UN strenuously oppose annexation.

    This does seem logical, though.

  19. Steve

    Dr. Phillies: You’re the “serious man” who wanted to be trusted with the nukes in the last election?

    ““In 1967, after years of threatening to “wipe Israel off the map,” Egypt and other Arab countries finally mustered the courage to attack. ”

    This is historically backwards.”

    Then you should know that blockading the Straits of Tiran and re-militarizing the Sinai were acts of war and violations of the international agreements made after the Suez War.

  20. LibertarianGirl

    Aa.S-“Robert Ringer wrote the book “Restoring the American Dream” back in 1980. The book urged people to join the Libertarian Party.

    I was one of those bright-eyed recruits. I have been actively involved with the LP ever since.”

    me_http://www.huffingtonpost.com/terry-krepel/robert-ringers-voice-of-i_b_682646.html

    ” Robert Ringer made his name in the 1970s as the author of Me Decade motivational classics like “Winning Through Intimidation” and “Looking Out for Number One.” Ringer has brought that kind of selfish intimidation approach …”

    sigh** why does this make perfect sense??

  21. Jill Pyeatt

    DWP @ 20: “when you win a war, you take whatever pleases you (unless, of course, you’re the United States of America). “

    This sentence made me laugh out loud. This is when I knew the whole article is a joke. Maybe Aaron and Wayne just want to know if we’re paying attention.

    Oh yeah, guys, we’re paying attention.

  22. Jill Pyeatt

    My whole objection to Wayne’s tirade about Obama and Israel was not to be a discussion about Israel. My complaint is that his broad brush strokes infer all Palestinians are monsters. All attempts by him to explain himself, in my view, simply make him look more like a racist.

    Since I haven’t noticed racism from Aaron before, I’m going to give him the benefit of a doubt, and assume this little article is just a big joke.

  23. Michael H. Wilson

    It may be that this entire debate about the borders has much more to do with access to the water of the Jordan River than anything else.

    Other than that Ringer’s essay is B.S.

  24. Jill Pyeatt

    Here is what I posted last night on another thread:

    “Okay, so here’s the thing: I learned long ago not to talk about Israel or abortion, because everyone always gets wound up, and no one is ever going to change their mind. Until last Memorial Day weekend, I deliberately stayed away from the Israel/Palestine debate because it’s very complicated and I don’t live there–I don’t think I can understand it without living there. Last year when those people were killed on the Freedom Flotilla, I decided it was time to form an opinion about Israel/Palestine. My observation is that pro-Israel people throw around terrible accusations about the Palestinians that are so over-the-top that I find them hard to believe (like the child suicide bomber thing). I continue to think this is a very complicated issue that I’ll probably never understand. As a Libertarian, I think we should stop finding Israel, along with every other country, and I think we should stay out of their affairs. But when I read someone painting all Palestinians as monsters, I see that as racism. And since I abhor racist talk, I get upset at the person who is doing the talking, especially when that person says he represents me and my party.

    Wayne, seriously, why don’t you hire someone to proof your articles before you publish them? Someone else else might have noticed that your words might have been construed differently than you might have meant. Clearly Israel is an issue you feel strongly about, but racism–painting a group of people as exhibiting certain bad behaviors because of their race or ethnicity–is something I feel strongly about. It’s a core value for me, which will never change.”

  25. LibertarianGirl

    Aaron is far more measured in his approach to speaking , wayne speaks from the cuff and frequently says things he has take back..

    but yes , i think the article is an attempt to toy with us , in that light , it is rather amusing

  26. Libertarians for Mubarak-Duvalier 2012

    Ringer saith:

    To make matters worse, we now have a U.S. president who encouraged the removal of one of our strongest allies, Hosni Mubarak, which opened the door for his beloved Muslim Brotherhood pals to take power. This, in turn, will likely lead to the abrogation of Egypt’s peace treaty with Israel.

    Courageous and forthright.

    Libertarians need to face the facts: Mubarak and Duvalier are the Libertarian leaders we need. The ones who can win by intimidation and look out for number one.

    See you in Las Vegas next year!

  27. Libertarians for Mubarak-Duvalier 2012

    Hosni Mubarak is ready to move up to the big leagues as the USA’s first Libertarian President and restore the American dream! We need an experienced President as a Libertarian candidate who is already known as one of our strongest allies!

    Take that, you Muslim Brotherhood-Anarcho-Fascist followers of the Twelfth Imam!

  28. Libertarians for Mubarak-Duvalier 2012

    http://server.theadvocates.org/celebrities/robert-ringer.html

    To the world at large, Ringer is most famous as one of the most widely read and influential authors of books that teach people how to be more successful at business and life. Two of his books — Winning Through Intimidation (1975) and Looking Out for Number #1 (1977) — were listed by the New York Times among the 15 best-selling motivational books of all time. Those two books also hit #1 on the New York Times national bestseller list.

    In addition, Ringer is the author of Million Dollar Habits (1990), Getting What You Want: The Seven Principles of Rational Living (2000), and Action! Nothing Happens Until Something Moves (2004). In 2004, he also published an updated and rewritten version of Winning Through Intimidation entitled To Be or Not to Be Intimidated?. His books have been reprinted in a half-dozen languages, and have been praised by business leaders, coaches, politicians, and other public figures. Laissez Faire Books said Ringer’s books “are always an engaging blend of storytelling and no-nonsense practical and moral insight.”

    Can anyone on this Godforsaken website serious argue against the fact that Hosni Mubarak is the very embodiment of the ideas reflected in the titles of Ringer’s books?

    I mean …Million Dollar Habits? Hah. That must have been pre-inflation dollars.

    No wonder Ringer is saying such good things about Mubarak, in preparation for Hosni’s LP campaign for President of the US in 2012.

  29. Michael H. Wilson

    I think we should promote Mr. Ringer for something. What it is I don’t know. But here we have a man who promotes the idea that people who have no decision in the making of a war pay the price for the decisions imposed on them by others. Dictators, kings and even elected politicians commit nations to wars and it is the everyday person, often women, the elderly and children who suffer the most.

    Yup don’t ask for or expect a handout, but you better be damn ready to pay the price. Nice idea to pass onto a five year old child.

  30. Thomas L. Knapp

    Wayne didn’t answer my question. Maybe Ringer will.

    Netanyahu — and Root, and Ringer — say that Israel can’t go back to its 1967 borders because those borders are “indefensible.” Ringer even states that Israel would cease to exist within a day of giving up the Golan Heights.

    In 1967, Israel’s borders were … um … those “indefensible” 1967 borders!.

    In 1967, Israel had more enemies than it does now, most of them sponsored and equipped by the Soviets. Today, Iraq and Iran are gone from the 1967 order of battle and Syria is coming apart at the seams.

    In 1967, Israel’s air force had a total of about 200 aircraft. Today, Israel’s aircraft has twice as many fighters alone, and those fighters are modern, US-made F-16s, not old 1950s-era French Mysteres.

    In 1967, Israel had only conventional weapons. Now it has nukes.

    So how are the 1967 borders now less “defensible” than they were when Israel WHIPPED ASS ACROSS THEM IN 1967?

  31. Marc Montoni

    In 1967 the Arabs did not launch the war, the Jews did…

    Why not say “In 1967 the MUSLIMS did not launch the war, the Jews did.”?

    Careful, George.

  32. Robert Capozzi

    Tk, I’d like to hear the answer as well re: “indefensible.” My guess is that the term is overstatement for effect…they likely REALLY mean “difficult to defend.”

  33. Michael H. Wilson

    BTW the 1967 war was the war where the USS Liberty was attacked by the Israelis. Thirty-four American were killed and 170 injured.

    Many people have serious questions about the integrity of the investigation that followed.

  34. WT actual F?!

    Is this article supposed to be a joke? If so, it’s not funny, and if not …it is just offensive…and I am not even easily offended…

  35. Thomas L. Knapp

    I’m also interested in why this article appears on IPR.

    Is there a third party angle?

    My recollection is that Ringer may have endorsed either Root or Barr for the 2008 LP presidential nomination, which might constitute such an angle — especially if he wrote this article specifically to try and help Wayne get his ass out of the sling it’s apparently in over this whole thing, or if his intent is arguably to generally assist in the hijacking of the LP by the GOP-quisling “liberventionist” splinter group, etc.

    But if it’s just a general piece on Israel, etc., with no other angle or hook, it doesn’t seem very IPRish to me.

  36. NewFederalist

    Tom Knapp at #42… I think this is a Prohibition Party promotional piece. I believe that because nearly everyone who has commented has done their own party no good. Since no known Prohibitionists have commented they are the de facto winner.

  37. Aaron Starr's Motive

    Knapp: I’m also interested in why this article appears on IPR.

    I assume it’s posted because Starr thought this article made a powerful case for Israel.

    And he wanted to post a “powerful” case for Israel.

    That he thought it would go over well demonstrates the delusional mindset of the Root faction.

  38. Thomas L. Knapp

    ASM@44,

    I’ve long detected a strong tendency among Aaron Starr’s opponents in the LP to infer rather more detail from the facts than those facts actually warrant.

    I found that tendency annoying even when I was one of Aaron Starr’s opponents in the LP. Now that I’m not, it’s something akin to fingernails on a chalkboard.

  39. Don Lake, FYI, not necessarily a unilateral endorsement

    Michael H. Wilson // May 26, 2011:

    BTW the 1967 war was the war where the USS Liberty was attacked by the Israelis. [in international waters]

    Thirty-four American were killed and 170 injured. [on a non combatant vessel]

    Many people have serious questions about the integrity of the investigation that followed.”

    [Lake: and Israel First stealth American Zionists John Dennis Coffey, John Blare, and John Bambey along with Valli Sharpe Geisler worked day and night in 2005 to kill the Reform Party USA monthly print organ to deflect the USS Liberty article. Citizens For A Better Veterans Home co founder Coffey denied being in contact with the other anti American thugs. but not according to missing money, computer time, and voice mail ———- right in my abode.

    Religious zealots evolve in to studied liars. And (so called) Libertarian Bruce Cohen. He assures me that there is more to the USS Liberty story ………… Yeah, Right, Sure]

    [Lake: Hey, Wilson, give me a postal address for youse self, POB and or PMB be fine ………… ]

  40. LibertarianGirl

    No shit , the things I heard made him out to be nearly epic at manipulating and powerful due to inhuman evil , im overstating to be funny but not by much
    seriously it is pretty funny amusing because anytime anyone does anything bad or whatever , the blame gamers always include him name , always

    if he was that goddamned omnipotent why would he waste his powers on our sorry asses.

    ROFL , we arent playing dungeons and dragons people

  41. Tom Blanton

    …the so-called Palestinians have spent sixty-four years painting themselves as victims….

    I’ve noticed a lot of that going around the Holy Land.

    …the Jews insist that God gave them the land, and that’s a pretty strong debating point to overcome…

    Maybe so, but any decent real estate lawyer would advise a first-time homeland buyer to get title insurance.

    How can you have peace when the stated goal of one side is to exterminate the other?

    Bibi needs to tell Avignor to zip it – those nightclub bouncers are always trying to pick a fight.

    Muslims worldwide need to start getting up every morning and focusing on constructive pursuits rather than spending all their time plotting new ways to kill Jews.

    No kidding. The Palestinians have no talent for it. They should take up dry cleaning or furniture sales.

    In operation cast lead, the IDF killed 1,166 Palestinians – 709 combatants and the rest non-combatants including 138 women and children, according to the IDF.

    Only 13 Israelis were killed according to the IDF – 10 soldiers and 3 non-combatants. And four of the soldiers were killed by the IDF themselves!

    Obviously the Palestinians need to focus on something they can do well. It sure ain’t killing Jews.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_War

  42. Steven Wilson

    It really is enjoyable to see so many new recruits entering the big tent craptown. Ringer…motivational theorist of Trotsky.

    It that don’t agree, then they will obey me…in fear

    This must be the motivational-speakers- are-a-real-occupation section of the new LP.

    The bottle of wine is getting me fine and I feel really good about this new section of LP.

    Shiraz cabernet really should go with great news.

    Fart

  43. Michael H. Wilson

    re Don at 46. Mail anything to me at this address and mark to my attention:

    LIBERTARIAN PARTY of WASHINGTON STATE
    10522 Lake City Way NE
    Ste C 103
    Seattle, WA 98125

    Thank you.

  44. Aaron Starr's Motive

    the things I heard made [Starr] out to be nearly epic at manipulating and powerful due to inhuman evil … if he was that goddamned omnipotent …

    Okay, but I don’t think that applies to my speculation @ 44.

    I merely surmised that Starr posted this piece because he wanted to post what he thought was a powerful argument for Israel.

    It’s a logical supposition.

    Why post an argument in favor of Israel, other than that one wishes to promote Israel?

    (Especially since this piece is not related to third party issues.)

  45. Thomas L. Knapp

    ASN@53,

    “Why post an argument in favor of Israel, other than that one wishes to promote Israel?”

    Because one wants to promote the article’s author for some reason not necessarily strictly related to the topic?

    Because one wants to use the article’s argument and/or its author’s credibility to backstop some other person who’s taking a ration of shit at the moment, but whom this article/author agrees with?

    Because it just seemed interesting?

    I can think of a lot of reasons.

    I’m not saying that the reason you offer ISN’T the actual reason, just that the inference isn’t an obviosity.

  46. Steven R Linnabary

    Two of his books — Winning Through Intimidation (1975) and Looking Out for Number #1 (1977) — were listed by the New York Times among the 15 best-selling motivational books of all time. Those two books also hit #1 on the New York Times national bestseller list.

    That’s EXACTLY what these books are…motivational books. I’ve read “Winning Through Intimidation”, and it is quite good, one that I would recommend. And it has absolutely nothing to do with intimidation.

    I read someplace that the book’s title was chosen by the publisher. Chosen to be provocative. And it seems to have worked.

    Ringer has also written a great treatise on “bullying”, I highly recommend it also.
    http://www.robertringer.com/bullying.html

    I suspect that all authors will occasionally write a poorly reasoned article. The above qualifies.

    We shouldn’t allow ourselves to let this essay cloud our opinion of Ringer, no matter how outrageous his claims are.

    PEACE

  47. NewFederalist

    I thought the Likud bloc was a major party the other one being the Labor party. Can anyone confirm?

  48. Deran

    I’ve always thought the best solution would be the ’67 borders, part of E jerusalem as Palestines capitol, and all the jewish settlers in the West bank that want, can stay and become full Palestinian citizens, and of course the same would have to apply to Arabs living in Israel. They would have to be given full citizenship, no more aparttheid-style segregation of amenities etc.. And put the “holy” sites under some sort of multi-faith admin commission.

    I think the poster above who said it’s really abt water is correct. And I think Palestine should be given full control of all their natural resources.

  49. Team United

    Israeli Parliament

    Type Unicameral

    Leadership
    Speaker Reuven Rivlin, Likud
    since March 30, 2009
    Leader of the Opposition Tzipi Livni, Kadima
    since March 30, 2009
    Members 120

    Political groups Coalition members: Likud, Yisrael Beiteinu, Independence, Shas, The Jewish Home, United Torah Judaism

    Opposition: Kadima, Labor, National Union, New Movement – Meretz, Hadash, United Arab List, Balad, Ta’al

  50. Johncjackson

    If the author’s persuasive Libertarian book was written in a style like this, I’m glad I never read it and happy I found my way to libertarianism without reading this type of bullshit. It sounds like some kind of W.A.R. email or something, not something that appeals to people who are above name-calling and the like.

  51. Darryl W. Perry

    @22 – “IF Israel annexed its conquered territory and gave full voting citizenship rights to the Arabs living there, THEN Israel would be comparable to the U.S.”

    I must have missed the legislation giving inhabitants of Puerto Rico, Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Northern Mariana Islands & the other territories “full voting citizenship rights”… if you could please provide this for me…

  52. U.S. and Israel are NOT Comparable

    @ 63: I must have missed the legislation giving inhabitants of Puerto Rico, Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Northern Mariana Islands & the other territories “full voting citizenship rights”… if you could please provide this for me…

    Puerto Rico was given the right (in several referendums) to choose between independence, territorial status, or statehood. Puerto Rican voters always chose territory.

    Even so, Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens. Did you know that? They have full rights to travel and live in the U.S., serve in the military, and become voting citizens in any of the 50 states.

    Arabs living in the territories, under Israeli State power, were never given a choice — become citizens, status quo, or independence.

    Israel and the U.S. are very different.

    When the U.S. takes land, it offers full citizenship to its residents, most of whom accept it. Unlike Israel.

    Israel wants the land, but not the people. Wrong religion, wrong ethnicity.

    Some Israelis (read Antiwar.com) suggest that Israel is making life miserable for its Arabs citizens (not just those in the territories) to pressure them to emigrate. A sort of “soft ethnic cleansing.”

    Israel uses State Power to maintain its Jewish majority status.

    If the U.S. treated its non-white, non-Christian residents the way Israel treats its non-Jewish residents, it’d be called theocracy and racism.

  53. Team United

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_parliament

    Wikipedia wrote:
    In 1996, then-Justice Minister Yossi Beilin[4] backed the ultimately unsuccessful institution of the so-called “Norwegian law”, which would require appointed members of the cabinet to resign their seats in the Knesset and allow other members of their parties to take their positions while they serve in the cabinet;

    and…
    Israeli in practice, the Knesset’s ability to legislate has often been limited due to the consequences of Israel’s low 2% threshold of eligibility for a party to obtain a seat (one of the world’s lowest; though it was previously at 1%, then 1.5%). As a result, no party has ever gained a majority on its own (the most being 56 seats), and thus the government is formed on the basis of a coalition. The inherent instability of the coalitions (the average life span of an Israeli government is 25 months) results in numerous successful no-confidence motions, which automatically dissolve the Knesset and necessitates an early election call.

    Me:
    This is a reference to the Sainte-lague system used in Norway, but the issue should be about the math and not Cabinet resignations, for sure!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sainte-Lague

    Under the Sainte-lague system, the threshold should be 1/121ths (or .826%) plus one vote, which wins one of the 120 seats.

  54. Alan Pyeatt

    Boy, the pro-Israeli propaganda on IPR has reached astonishing, jaw-dropping proportions. Way to stand up for people’s right to self-governance, Robert!

    I never read Mr. Ringer’s books either. It’s probably a good thing, because they might have driven me right out of the LP.

    BTW, the U.S didn’t exactly give the “conquered people” on the mainland any choice about becoming citizens either. They forced citizenship on Indians in 1924 so they could be drafted. Didn’t give them much choice about keeping their land, either. Ever heard of the Oklahoma land runs?

    Back to the Middle East: Naomi Wolf posted this article about Netanyahu’s speech on Facebook today: http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/05/201152512623687256.html.

  55. U.S. and Israel are NOT Comparable

    I’m not saying the U.S. has behaved well to conquered peoples, only that it’s become better over the years.

    Whereas Israel isn’t even trying.

    The U.S. has admitted it did wrong, and has made some amends. It largely accepts that it will no longer be a white majority country by 2050 (maybe sooner), and it openly celebrates multicultural diversity (despite some anger from the older generations).

    Whereas Israel (its governments, establishment, and supporters in the U.S.) admits to no wrong-doing, and insists that it’s fully the victim. Even most of its “liberals” reject any plan that would dilute its Jewish majority status.

  56. Don Lake, FYI, not necessarily a unilateral endorsement

    Reform Party USA – Action Group Newsletter ~ Vol.9, No.10 [247th Edition]

    28 MAY 2011 ~ PROVIDED TO RPUSA STATE PARTY ORGANIZATIONS & ALLIES

    SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS! ? ‘SPIRITUS MONTIUM’ ? JUSTITIA OMNIBUS!
    “Reporting what others think…but won’t say publicly!”

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    NEW Reform Party USA ASKS: WHEN DO “LIES” EVER BECOME “FACTS”?

    Every Spring, or so it seems, Americans are subjected to the Great Extortion Racket of the Organized Crime Syndicate known as “AIPAC” (American-Israeli Public Affairs Council), aka, the “Zionist Lobby” which supports the International Crime Syndicate of the Israeli Occupational Forces (IOF) in Palestine.

    For close to seven-decades now, the Khazars-Ashkenazis who collectively call themselves “Israelis & Jews”, having adopted the Babylonian Talmud in the 7th Century A.D./C.E. while living in their original homeland east of Turkey; first invaded Palestine after being driven from Europe during WWII, only to terrorize the Palestinians via gangs of organized criminals, then stole the lands & homes of the indigenous Palestinians, driving them into exile in Jordan & Lebanon, after the Arabs had lived in Palestine since the Assyrians captured the Biblical Israelites and relocated them to the base of the Caucasus Mountains, whereby the real descendants of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob then migrated through the Dariel Pass in the Caucasus Mountains all across Europe, to England, America, Canada, Australia, Sud Afrika, and elsewhere – hence Western Europeans are called “Caucasians”!

    Read the Biblical accounts: detailed in 2 Kings 17 – 25 & summarized in 2 Chronicles 32-36. Then see “Tracing Our Ancestors”, by Frederick Haberman (1932).

    Meanwhile, for the past 63+ years, the IOF has been living off the “Golden Calf”, aka, the American Taxpayers, to the tune of BILLIONS of DOLLARS per/year via no less than $3Bn in foreign aid per/year, & an untold amount in billions in military war materiel to such an extent that the 5+ Million Israelis now boast to being the “fifth largest” military in the world behind China, USA, Russia & India, etc. Yet the real facts show that the Israelis take the war materiel they receive from the USA, and then resell what they have to other nations – and while close to the brink of economic collapse a decade ago, since 9/11 the Israelis are now the world’s largest suppliers of electronic surveillance equipment, both software & hardware, so no wonder a group of Israelis were reported cheering when the World Trade Center came tumbling down!

    Oh, that’s right, after being arrested these nine-Israelis were hustled out of the country ASAP!

    And as we all know, there are many reports which indicate the Israelis had a direct & bloody-hand in the attack!

  57. Don Lake, FYI, not necessarily a unilateral endorsement

    Boy what a public spanking!

    I believe this now supplants Dim Bulb Chuck ‘Constitutional Party’ Baldwin’s unfactual diatribe on the Patriotic AMERICAN heroes of the [Mexican] Alamo!

    Hey, aren’t the down troddened Jews the good guys ?????? Aren’t they the morally superior ones ?????? Why are they acting like fascists ????????

  58. Darryl W. Perry

    @65“Puerto Rico was given the right (in several referendums) to choose between independence, territorial status, or statehood. Puerto Rican voters always chose territory.

    That’s not entirely true. While they have had 3 votes (plebiscites), the results were non-binding and no, they have not “always chose[n] territory”.

    1967 plebiscite
    “Commonwealth” 60.4%
    Statehood 39.0%
    Independence 0.6%

    1993 plebiscite
    Statehood 46.3%
    Commonwealth 48.6%
    Independence 4.4%

    1998 plebiscite
    “Territorial” Commonwealth 0.1%
    Free Association 0.3%
    Statehood 46.5%
    Independence 2.5%
    None of the Above 50.3%

    “If the U.S. treated its non-white, non-Christian residents the way Israel treats its non-Jewish residents, it’d be called theocracy and racism.AGREED

  59. Don Lake, FYI, not necessarily a unilateral endorsement

    Oh you probably abhor Somali Pirates but if they starting flying the star of david ………….

    Thank you for showing your true colors, Adoph Junior! Taking the side of killer thugs against unarmed innocents, are we?

    Kindred souls: [so called reformists:] John Dennis Coffey, John Bambey, John Blare, Valli Sharpe Giesler; [Libertarian Israel First American Zionists]: Bruce Cohen and WAR; and of course the fakey dakey CP!

    You sure fit into the Grundmann, Nightingale, Quirk clique *not a compliment*.

  60. None

    Wouldn’t ending our annual $3 billion welfare program for Israel be a better way to reduce the US government’s size?

  61. Alaska Constitution Party

    Now I am amused! I consider it an honor to be attacked by the likes of the SPLC and the haters of Israel. As to #75, I agree, let’s remove ALL international welfare. Let Israel act in self defense without all the dollars, and the strings attached.

  62. Don Lake, FYI, not necessarily a unilateral endorsement

    oh, no, Alaska (whom ever you are) …………. WE are amused (yes it is a mouse in our collective pockets!)

    you come down against innocents in international waters, being murdered by Israeli (so called) Defense Force. [Hey its on tape, and in the case of the non combatant dead and dying of the USS Liberty, voice recorders]

    Then you want Judea to go it alone. You are as screwy and illogical as the (co called) Constitution Party.

    Your Party Leadership now has copies of Eric Margolis (Toronto Sun) ‘s 2001 ‘American’s Most Shame full Secret’. Hope they are monitoring loose cannons like your 40 watt self.

    What next, the glorious AMERICAN patriotism as the Defenders of the MEXICAN San Antonio and MEXICAN Alamo against authorized MEXICAN General Santa Ana and his MEXICAN troops? Duh!

    The CP was screwy two decades ago.

    The CP is screwy in 2011!

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