KNAPPSTER: A Question for Gary Johnson

From an article posted on Knappster:

English: Gary E. JohnsonImage via WikipediaFollowers of third party political news are probably aware that on December 28, former New Mexico governor Gary Johnson abandoned his campaign for the Republican Party’s 2012 presidential nomination and announced that he’ll instead be seeking the nomination of the Libertarian Party.

Libertarian activists seem, for the most part, excited about this development, as well they should be. Cavils about carpet-bagging and bad branding (“the party of Republicans who can’t find support in their own party”) and such aside, it’s probably a net plus that a former two-term governor thinks of the LP as a worthy vehicle for a presidential campaign.

But I have a question — a question that Libertarian Party members and prospective campaign donors should be asking.

Johnson’s presidential campaign committee (“Gary Johnson 2012 Inc.”), like all other presidential campaign committees that have raised or spent more than $5,000, files quarterly reports with the Federal Elections Commission. The report for the 4th quarter of 2011 isn’t due until the 15th, but the report for the 3rd quarter — covering the period through the end of September — shows the campaign with only $10,882 dollars on hand … and debts of $240,067.

I’m just guessing here, but I suspect that the campaign’s financial situation got worse, not better, in the 4th quarter. If I’m right, then we’re looking at a campaign somewhere in the general neighborhood of $250k in the red.

Who’s going to pay off that debt?

If Johnson (who’s independently wealthy) is willing to get his campaign back to the zero point out of his own pocket, well, that’s great.

If not, then Libertarians are being asked to dig their presumptive front-runner out of a campaign finance hole he dug over in GOP-land, before they even begin to finance things like television advertising and putting the candidate on the road to get his message out.

$250k may not be huge over on the “major party” side of things, where presidential campaign expenses are now running into the hundreds of millions of dollars. The Libertarian Party’s recent presidential candidates, on the other hand, have run campaigns in the $1-2 million dollar range, against which $250k is a pretty big deal.

I’ve seen some snarky remarks around the blogosphere about the fact that the rest of the Libertarian presidential field hasn’t raised a whole lot of money. But I suspect that each and every one of those others has a better bottom line than Johnson does at the moment.

Raising money’s important. Spending money’s important too. But especially important is doing more of the former than the latter.

Something to think about, Libertarians.

———–

Read the original article here.

 

A Question for Gary Johnson

68 thoughts on “KNAPPSTER: A Question for Gary Johnson

  1. George Phillies

    So far, according to the FEC reports to date (that’s through 9/30/2011) Johnson has yet to invest a single penny of his own wealth in his own campaign.

  2. Sane LP member

    It was his choice to spend the money. Nobody but his campaign is on the hook to pay off the debt.

  3. George Phillies

    If he gets someone’s nomination, there is a black hole sitting there waiting to swallow that party’s donor’s money, if given to support his campaign.

  4. Art Pedroza

    But Johnson brings valuable name I.D. to the table. And he got a lot of media exposure as a GOP candidate.

    Also, he is no carpetbagger. He paid Libertarian party dues as Governor of New Mexico. Which brings up another thing – he has a solid record to run on. Not so for the other candidates.

    We are lucky to have Johnson as our candidate.

  5. Thomas L. Knapp

    Art @4,

    I specifically discounted the “carpetbagger” argument in this article.

    And you got the tense wrong on that last sentence — Johnson is not yet the LP’s candidate.

  6. Thomas L. Knapp

    @6,

    Could be.

    I’m not sure “I’m $250k in the hole because my government welfare check hasn’t arrived yet” is a much stronger campaign hand in the LP than “I got 250k in the hole trying to get famous and I could still walk across Central Park naked without anyone recognizing me … little help here?” though.

  7. Robert Capozzi

    I thought we’ve heard that GJ’s campaign will be taking matching funds to retire the debt…

  8. George Phillies

    @9 Why do you think he is currently eligible for matching funds? (He may have received them in 4th quarter before he switched parties, though.) Also, from where did you hear this claim…?

  9. Robert Capozzi

    more…

    As you are the LP’s expert in FEC matters (filing complaints, reporting on “limo” expenses), have you found any items in GJ’s filings that will move you to launch one of your patented tirades?

    That you haven’t thus far leads me to believe that, other than the reported campaign deficit, you’ve not found any. Surely there must be SOMETHING. Maybe he used campaign funds for a new wrench for his bicycle. Maybe replaced a shoestring. 😉

  10. Marc Montoni

    As you are the LP’s expert in FEC matters (filing complaints, reporting on “limo” expenses), have you found any items in GJ’s filings that will move you to launch one of your patented tirades?

    The irony: seeing a post from the above quoted individual that I actually agree with.

    ‘Patented tirades’, indeed.

    Phillies’ one consistent M.O. for the past decade and a half has been to blow anthills hyperbolically into outrageous Mount Everests.

  11. Thomas L. Knapp

    RC@14,

    “have you found any items in GJ’s filings”

    On the disbursement side, there aren’t many items as such at all. IIRC there are only four payees: A bank, a law firm, an accounting firm, and a campaign firm, with the bulk of disbursements to that last one.

    Whether making campaign expenditures opaque rather than transparent is the intent of that or just an unintended side effect, I don’t know.

    The geographic placement of three of those four recipients (Salt Lake City) does raise in my occasionally paranoid mind the question of whether or not “technical difficulties” might suddenly ensue if the GOP nominates Romney or Huntsman and find Johnson crushing their buzz.

  12. paulie

    Why do you think he is currently eligible for matching funds? (He may have received them in 4th quarter before he switched parties, though.)

    The part in parentheses is the quarter million dollar question that goes to the heart of the issue raised by this post.

    If no one in the Johnson campaign cares to answer it before then, we’ll learn the answer Jan. 31st.

  13. George Phillies

    I do not expand anthills. It was John Famularo who demonstrated that the Brown campaign had used money laundering to hide payments to LNC staff members in violation of LNC Bylaws. We need not question if there was a violation, because there was a confession. It was FEC reports that revealed that the LNC had made loans to the Browne campaign to help it raise money when it was in difficulty. It is unsurprising that former LNC staff members did not like the bright light of truth shining over the LNC, though it was Perry Willis who did the spectacular job of that.

    And it was Harry Browne who made a deathbed confession to Bill Bradford, who made a deathbed confession to me — they both, I gather, knew that they, sadly, were mortally ill when they spoke, the first to the second, the second to me.

  14. George Phillies

    @4 He is indeed a carpetbagger. Consequent to his briefly paying us dues, he ran for Governor. Twice. As a Republican. That makes him a Republican. And a Carpetbagger. Just like Barr.

  15. Robert Capozzi

    “Carpetbagger” seems off as a label. “Turncoat” seems pejorative but accurate, even if used by a turncoat himself. Even if one doesn’t prefer GJ as the nominee, I don’t get why some would tear him down with pejorative labels. Self loathers often employ such attacking, childish behavior as a means to drag others into their misery…could be that…. “”

  16. Art Pedroza

    A lot of us in the Libertarian Party are former Republicans. How are we going to grow this party if we treat new Libertarians poorly?

    Johnson may not be our candidate yet but he will be.

  17. paulie

    That makes him a Republican. And a Carpetbagger. Just like Barr.

    To my knowledge, Barr first joined the LP in 2006, two years before running.

    Johnson joined in 1993, 18 years ago, and never revoked his membership pledge.

    His record in office is also a lot more libertarian than Barr’s.

    While there are some parallels, I don’t think “just like Barr” is entirely accurate.

  18. Steven Berson

    The figures quoted above from what I can see are 3rd Quarter figures ending September 30, 2011. A recent contribution drive running 12/29/11 – 1/2/12 raised around $48,000 from what I could see on the GJ campaign site ticker. There likely were other expenses, and other donations gained in the 4th Quarter as well. SO – I’d say it’s very likely that the figures have changed from the ones Knapp is quoting.

    Another question to ask when seeking a broader perspective on this – is that even if there is a $250k deficit in the GJ campaign currently – does his ability to fund raise, as well subtracting the cost of already existing campaign organization and materials – still make it equal or better to the abilities and existing organizations of the competing candidates?

  19. paulie

    “X told me so” is certainly a reason, if there is a name for X.

    Not sure I’m at liberty to say.

    One or more people working on Johnson’s campaign.

  20. paulie

    Johnson may not be our candidate yet but he will be.

    Maybe, maybe not. If Ron Paul goes LP, he won’t be. If Ventura runs, he may or may not be.

    With the current field, he probably will be, but don’t count your chickens before they hatch.

  21. paulie

    A lot of us in the Libertarian Party are former Republicans. How are we going to grow this party if we treat new Libertarians poorly?

    There has to be some balance between treating newcomers generously and appointing any recently disgruntled Republican governor or congressman as the the LP’s presidential nominee. Where Johnson falls on that continuum is a legitimate question.

  22. paulie

    But Johnson brings valuable name I.D. to the table. And he got a lot of media exposure as a GOP candidate.

    “A lot”?

    His name recognition is certainly proportionally higher than, say, Lee Wrights, but I’d say at best it’s in the very low single digits among the general public – if even that.

  23. Nominate Dr. Ron Paul to be the 2012 Libertarian Party POTUS Candidate !

    When I researched matching funds a few years back it wasn’t an easy thing to qualify for if you weren’t well known. Anyone may correct me but I think at that time you needed 200 contributers in a minimum of 20 separate states. I sincerely doubt GJ has met the criteria. Sadly many (or few?!) continue to refer to all the media GJ has already received. The standard of most Ls are very low. As TK inferred GJ could walk through Central Park clothed or naked and few if any would know who he is.

    Yes his LP contributers will be filling in the hole before you can start building “anthills” for liberty.

    Now a better way is to nominate Ron Paul and hook your local and state LP orgs to the R(3ov_l)ution and it’s million$. Ride the wave all the way to Nov. and beyond. Lay aside your differences and take full advantage of the situation for the LP.

    Dr.Paul and Son continue to disallow a third Party run, however BEFORE May 4 he and his followers will know the RP run is over. The MAJORITY of followers will want him in the finals in Nov. After All this is his FINAL election. He can carry the message on for 6 more months.

    The LP VP spot would be important if Dr. Paul allows his name to be nominated for LP POTUS nominee ! A broke candidate GJ would still have benefit as (a former two term Gov.) the Veep because of his “title” . If GJ refused, Ventura might could be lured into the fray with Paul.

    NOPE no purity , BUT a whole lot of publicity and some much needed cash floating around to help build the LOCAL and STATE LP orgs.

    Poll: Who is your choice for the LP POTUS Nominee at the current time? http://www.facebook.com/questions/10150681896019251#!/questions/215227378489903/?qa_ref=fqb

    This poll may surprise some !

  24. Steven Berson

    @28 – Ron Paul just passed the deadline for withdrawal from the GOP Texas primary. As Texas has a “sore loser law” that applies to Presidential candidates he would have to cede its large amount of electoral votes in his own home State if he chose to run in the General Election for President as an independent or third party. Ohio is another State with similar law that the withdraw date for the primary is quickly looming. I’d also say based on the precedent of 2008, where he both declined the LNC’s invitation to compete for the LP nomination, and also did not pursue continuing into the General Election on his own that it is very unlikely that he will pursue a 3rd party or independent run. I’m also pretty sure he will pursue going through the entire GOP primary process – instead of withdrawing prior to the LP Convention in May.

  25. Darryl W. Perry

    “sore loser laws” do NOT apply to Presidential candidates – voters are voting for a slate of electors, NOT the Presidential candidate to whom the electors are pledged!

  26. George Phillies

    We already know that Paul pursued the Republican nomination as late as their 2008 convention. Why would he change now?

    The Texas law, I gather, does cover Presidential candidates. If someone wanted to claim to the contrary on Constitutional grounds, they probably get to litigate. Perhaps the matter will be settled in time for the 2020 election.

  27. George Phillies

    @28

    As you researched the matter, thank you for the information.

    Are you referring to the rules for Democrats, Republicans, and candidates of other parties that crossed the vote per cent threshold, or candidates of parties who did not cross the threshold, e..g, ours.

    I also looked at the question, largely so I could answer if asked that the question was a non-issue.

  28. Steven Berson

    @30 – please tell that to the State governments of Texas, Ohio, South Dakota and Mississippi – and please take it to the Courts in those places (for which I will gratefully applaud you for) – as whether it is rightful or not to the best of my knowledge they do in fact laws on their books to that effect.

  29. Thomas L. Knapp

    Both John McCain and Barack Obama failed to meet the requirements to get on the ballot in Texas in 2008, but magically appeared anyway.

    If Paul runs third party and the “sore loser” law is invoked, he just needs to find the Ballot Fairy like they did.

  30. Jose C

    Those who contribute to Gary Johnson’s candidacy can include a note that they want the contribution used to support his candidacy for president of the Libertarian Party. They can further state the contribution is not to be used to pay off any debt incurred while he was a candidate for president of the Republican party.

  31. Gene Berkman

    I would like to point out that after the slaveholder’s rebellion was defeated, Carpetbaggers sacrificed the comforts of civilized life in the north in an apparently unsuccessful attempt to bring civilization to the southern states.

    Why do so many people think calling someone a “carpetbagger” is an insult?

    “Carpetbaggers” were called that because they lived out of their suitcases – at the time bags made out of carpet material. This was in imitation of traveling salesmen, an important part of the capitalist economy.

  32. Robert Capozzi

    31 gp: Why would [RP] change now?

    me: In 08, RP was running for prez and Congress simultaneously. In 12, he’s not.

    He’s running to promote his ideas about liberty and the Constitution more than to get elected, esp in this cycle. My guess is he’s quite focused on NH, SC, and FL now. By March, it’s likely that Romney will have it wrapped up.

    Then, he can decide what advances his agenda: hang in like 08, hang it up, go LP/indie, or something else.

    Maybe he’ll start a foundation to promote Christian Dominionism to while away his twilight years. 😉 We’ll see.

  33. Eric Sundwall

    My answer: Wait a week and see what the Johnson campaign files?

    Nitpickers will probably point out that results won’t be available until the end of the month.

    In furtherance to the question, isn’t a GJ LP candidacy more likely to raise money now that he’s not stuck at the bottom of the big heap and atop the small one now?

  34. Robert Capozzi

    more on 39…

    If my vision were to come to fruition, RP might reach out to GJ and get GJ to agree to playing understudy. This might prove just TOO enticing to RP…Paul/Johnson would be a very credible ticket. Going against Obama/Biden and, say, Romney/Bachmann, the 15% hurdle is conceivable in early polling.

  35. Robert Capozzi

    40 es: ..GJ LP candidacy more likely to raise money now that he’s not stuck at the bottom of the big heap and atop the small one now?

    me: Good question. While we see it more on the D side, I’d think that political “investors” might take a flier on GJ catching fire in the R primaries. That clearly didn’t happen much.

    GJ as L supporters would do so to promote ideas, I’d think, knowing that his chances of winning are close to non-existent.

    RP in the R field may have hurt GJ’s fundraising, too, as RP supporters had “the real thing” to contribute to, in their minds.

    And, then let’s not forget GJ is pro-choice. Conventional wisdom says the GOP will not nominate a pro-choicer. That issue is the GOP’s one clear litmus test, and one reason why I think the GOP is ripe for going away like the Whigs.

    Why would the political “investor” class give to GJ as a R when he cannot win the nomination?

  36. Thomas L. Knapp

    RC@39,

    “By March, it’s likely that Romney will have it wrapped up.”

    The Florida primary is on January 31st, at which point Romney will have convincingly won precisely zero caucuses or primaries.

    I suppose he might hang on through Super Tuesday hoping for a miracle instead of just further humiliation, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

  37. AnthonyD

    Robert @ 41,

    I agree with you on the strength of a Paul/Johnson ticket: 15% would be well within reach.

    That being said, it may be my eternal pessimism coming through, but I put the chances of this scenario coming to fruition as “slim.”

    On the other hand, I have proposed at this site in other threads that, the scenario I can see it happening in would be one in which RPaul is literally left with NO choice but to run 3rd party; a situation where his popularity grows beyond his or anyone’s ability to control it, and his supporters demand it. In any scenario where it is a toss-up whether to run or not, I believe he would declined (for the previously referred to “family” reasons.

  38. Gene Berkman

    TK @ 38 – not totally novel. Actually quite according to the historical record. See “Those Terrible Carpetbaggers” by Richard Nelson Current, published in 1988 by Oxford University Press.

    “Birth of a Nation” is propaganda, not accurate history, regardless of what Woodrow Wilson said.

  39. AnthonyD

    George @ 19, (following up on Robert @ 20 & Gene @ 38),

    I often wonder if those who use the carpetbagger label vis a vi GJohnson or BBarr have ever stopped to consider under what set of circumstances the LP would displace one of the two major parties (likely the GOP) and become a majority party itself.

    I ask this because I think there is an implicit belief (especially among purists) that the LP would somehow be able to “control” the growth of the party, vetting each and every new member for libertarian bona fides before giving them a membership card.

    I would suggest the reality would be much different. Whether it would take some sort of catastrophic event can be up for discussion. I think what is not up for discussion would be how the process would work, and I don’t think it would be in any way controlled. People who were Democrats or Republicans one day would be Libertarians the next. ACTIVE members of Congress or state legislatures who were donkeys or elephants would switch parties en masse. Vetting would not be possible. Considering the 24-hour news cycle these days, no rat would want to be left on a sinking ship. The party will go from a nonentity to a major organization with alacrity. There would be hundreds of politicians who would loosely fit the carpetbagger definition, and millions of nonpurists in the party. They would, in fact, swamp the purists in short order.

    Whether this is a reality you want to be a part of, I leave up to you to decide.

  40. George Phillies

    I am delighted to have Democrats and Republicans join the party. I have not proposed vetting members, though when you later discover that someone is also Party Chair of the American Revolutionary Communist (Maoist) Party you may want to think a bit.

    Vetting members has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Vetting members is entirely not the same as telling them that they are now Church President, Chief Rebbe, and by the way here are the keys to the Treasury.

  41. George Phillies

    @44 The NH delegate selection rules may make life interesting. Delegates are divided proportionately, but candidates under 10% do not count. Thus, Romney smacked Huntsman, because Huntsman is right at the edge, and it might matter

    If R-P-G-H-S are
    40-20-10-10-10 Romney gets 5 delegates, and it is not convincing.

    If they are
    40-20-9-9-9 Romney gets 8 delegates out of 12, which is a convincing win.

    But you may certainly say that Romney appears to be dropping like a Republican flavor of the day in the Suffolk tracking polls, and 40% of the vote is not a convincing victory, and I would agree.

    If Santorum is smashed on Tuesday, way way down, he fades from sight and Gingrich takes NC and likely FL.

  42. Thomas L. Knapp

    GP@49,

    Yes, I’ve been pointing to 40% as the minimum for a credible Romney win in New Hampshire for some time now.

    In today’s Suffolk daily, he’s dropped to 35%. That may be an outlier, but I think he’s going to have a hard time hitting 40% in New Hampshire. I didn’t catch this morning’s debate, but he was off his game last night, sounding shrill and defensive even though Huntsman was the only one really going after him much.

    He came into this thing as the presumed frontrunner, has a home in New Hampshire, and governed the state next door for four years. He should have been able to knock off 50% or better. 40% is a golf clap win, and anything less is a de facto loss.

    Santorum’s Iowa bump is already melting away in New Hampshire, and he doesn’t have time to develop a winning ground game in South Carolina.

    The only one who’s going to gain steam from here on out is Gingrich.

  43. George Phillies

    OK, I agree with your number prediction. If Suffolk has caught a trend, he is almost on the edge where he may lose, namely down to the high 20s and the vote breaks for Gingrich or Paul.

    If he manages to finish third, a high-odds-against bet, he is charcoal toast.

  44. AnthonyD

    George @ 48,

    I guess what I am suggesting that there are going to be a lot of Bob Barrs in this hypothetical major party version of the LP I am theorizing about. And they won’t have supported the Patriot Act years before their switch to the LP (as with Barr), they would have supported it months or weeks before.

  45. AnthonyD

    Thomas @ 50,

    You counting out Perry already? I wouldn’t put a comeback win on his part past the Republican Party as it is currently constituted. Clearly an odds-against situation, I would concede.

    I would still bet on Romney to win the nomination, however.

  46. Thomas L. Knapp

    AnthonyD @53,

    As of the day after Iowa, I wasn’t counting Perry out completely. I figured it came down to him or to Gingrich.

    But:

    The GOP’s primary schedule doesn’t help him.

    Things don’t move west until after South Carolina and Florida, where Gingrich has something like a home-field advantage.

    When they do move west, it’s not to Texas (that’s not until April), where he might hope to rack up a shitload of delegates and get into the driver’s seat. It’s to caucus in Nevada, where Romney and/or Huntsman may make a last stand with the assistance of the state’s Mormon-heavy GOP primary electorate, and where Paul will likely do pretty well, too.

    I’ve not seen anything in his post-Iowa performance to indicate that he’s getting better at this. I hear he’s spending quite a bit of money in South Carolina, but the money only gets you so far.

    Is it possible he’ll pull a comeback? Sure. Likely? In my opinion, very much not so.

  47. paulie

    Going against Obama/Biden and, say, Romney/Bachmann, the 15% hurdle is conceivable in early polling.

    That’s where AE comes in. 15% would be a lot tougher to clear in a 4-way.

  48. Nominate Dr. Ron Paul to be the 2012 Libertarian Party POTUS Candidate !

    They went after Romney this morning, but he has become the Teflon candidate of ’12. The talking heads smooth everything over as soon as the debate concludes. If anyone took the time to read the 7 points why Romney isn’t a sure thing I posted earlier, The “conservative” writer states that the MSM is behind him now, but as soon as he gets the nom the MSM will turn on him to back Obama. Look at this youtube that the Ds have already put together on Romney. This thing makes him look like MUSH….

    MittvMitt.com: The story of two men trapped in one body – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9njHHyRI7g&feature=player_embedded

    I think most will agree this is one of the WEAKER R POTUS fields in a while, if not ever. Now if Paul looked and sounded like say George Clooney, he would have had his best shot at it and WHO knows !!!

    @32 they are the FEC (I should say WERE) rules in ’07 for all POTUS (any Party or Indies) candidates seeking matching funds. I saw a report on GJ that stated he almost entirely funded his Gov. races himself. If so, GJ doesn’t have much experience in fund raising. Let’s be honest, that’s a BIG minus for a LP nom.

    @35 you may think that, but the truth is the majority of males in his national campaign office ’07-’08 were gay. At least that’s what I heard. I didn’t sleep with any of them, but did hear that little tidbit. Sometimes through the years I’ve suspected Dr. Paul was Bi, but he has all those beautiful grandchildren, and keeps it quite if he is. One thing we all can agree upon, Dr. Paul has seen much more female %#@@+ than you or I will ever see….lol Excuse me ladies I couldn’t pass it up. I think about that during the debates when the candidates are all up there with their “cupie” doll wives in the audience and there’s that quirky ol’ guy, without a politician voice, who’s suit jackets just doesn’t quite fit his shoulders correctly anytime. Who everyone on the stage and even everyone at the panel’s table is opposed to and just wish now they would have refused his debate entry in 2007 so they wouldn’t have to “put up” with him now! They want him to go away, but not the Alternative Party Way !!! Just GO AWAY…….

    My prediction !? Romney wins NH closer than he should but the talking heads keep singing “a win is a win is a win. Paul DOESN’t break 20%. A bloodbath happens in SC with Paul finishing 5th or 6th. Remember he received less than 4% there in ’08. FL could deside it all as the money for the also rans will be almost gone.

    The two ads being run in SC currently!

    Ron Paul Ad – He Served – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW08qK0GhHs&feature=player_embedded

    Ron Paul Ad: Staying on the Right Path – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_qBSow4FrE&feature=player_embedded

  49. paulie

    One thing we all can agree upon, Dr. Paul has seen much more female %#@@+ than you or I will ever see…

    Speak for yourself 😛

  50. AnthonyD

    Thomas @ 54,

    I hear you on Perry. The odds are certainly against him, but were I advising him after Iowa, I would have told him to stay in for the time being. He’s not out, and this GOP field is weak.

    That being said, the guy is flub-a-minute on the debate dais. He actually had the temerity to suggest he would send American troops BACK into Iraq due to the recent violence. He must be out of his mind to come up with that gem.

    And I agree with you in #50: Romney was subpar Saturday night. It is beyond me why he seemed to almost completely lose his mind when Stephanopoulos asked him about whether or not states have the right to ban contraception. I mean, it looked like someone asked him if his wife has herpes. What’s his problem? He knows he’s not going to out-santorum Santorum. Why not just say he supports the idea that the right to privacy exists in the Constitution.

  51. Steven Berson

    Paulie – I’ve spoken directly to Richard Winger regarding the sore loser laws in two extensive phone conversations with him when I was researching these points the past fall – in fact he was the one who supplied me with the info I provided above – further verified in the case of Texas and Ohio by looking at pdf’s on their State.gov websites. In the 4 States I mentioned I believe there would have to be a lawsuit in order to get around them.

  52. Nominate Dr. Ron Paul to be the 2012 Libertarian Party POTUS Candidate !

    @59 It’s been 5 years since I researched it Prof. I was just trying to make the point that I don’t think GJ has come anywhere near meeting requirements to receive taxpayer backed matching funds. Would be glad for you to fill in the details, as I certainly don’t recall all of them.

    Seems to me through the years whenever someone mentioned such a practice for or as the LP candidate, it would cause a %&*^storm of controversy within the Party. I understood, however I look at it as a “getting our taxes BACK” to do something good with them. ie I wouldn’t oppose the LP candidate(s) from doing it at this time (hell the “principle” part of the Party is bypassed regularly now). The deck is stacked too much against the LP, not to fight back with “our refunded taxes”.

    NH: Romney volunteer defects to Ron Paul – http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=DhrqFh3o4CM

  53. Johnson/Ventura '12

    Obviously a Ron Paul/Gary Johnson ticket would be ideal but I highly doubt that Ron would risk all the pull his cause has earned in the GOP and ruin his own sons political ambitions to help the LP. That’s why I’m supporting a Gary Johnson/Jesse Ventura ticket because it’s a credible ticket. Getting a Ron Paul endorsement and letting Rand Paul sit the sidelines I don’t think would hurt him. What Ron Paul needs to do is get all the delegates he can get and a prime-time speaking role at the GOP convention while letting Rand Paul be that speaker not Ron Paul, as Rand Paul can get momentum to run for Governor of Kentucky and/or President of the United States.

  54. paulie

    Paulie ? I?ve spoken directly to Richard Winger regarding the sore loser laws in two extensive phone conversations with him when I was researching these points the past fall ? in fact he was the one who supplied me with the info I provided above ? further verified in the case of Texas and Ohio by looking at pdf?s on their State.gov websites. In the 4 States I mentioned I believe there would have to be a lawsuit in order to get around them.

    I’ve had phone conversations with Richard as well and he told me that sore loser laws don’t apply to presidential candidates …and here it is in writing from comments he has left at IPR:

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2011/12/gary-johnson-encourages-supporters-to-vote-for-ron-paul-in-gop-primary/comment-page-2/#comment-723166

    #65, the point of the sore loser laws is that they apply to every partisan office except President.

    And yes, I believe one of Ron Paul?s sons is named Ron Paul Jr.

    https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2011/12/gary-johnson-encourages-supporters-to-vote-for-ron-paul-in-gop-primary/comment-page-2/#comment-723156

    No state can enforce a ?sore loser? law, relating to presidential primaries. No one has ever been kept off a general election ballot for president on the grounds that he or she ran in a presidential primary in a different party. People who have run in presidential primaries, and then appeared on the November ballot under a different label, are Theodore Roosevelt in 1912, Robert La Follette in 1924, John Anderson in 1980, Lyndon LaRouche many times 1984-1996, David Duke in 1988, and Gus Hall in 1976.

    The true candidates in November are the candidates for presidential elector. They are qualified and they aren?t ?sore losers?. The presidential candidates? names are on the ballot in November, not as candidates, but as labels for competing slates of presidential electors. The electors, who are legally eligible, have a free speech right to say whom they would vote for in December if they were elected to the electoral college.

    So if Ron Paul wanted the LP nomination in 2012 (which I don?t think he does), he could do it. If worst came to worst and some state refused, that state?s LP could then just say its elector candidates are pledged to Ron Paul, Jr. And then the electors could tell the world if they are elected to the electoral college, they will really vote for Ron Paul, Sr.

  55. AnthonyD.

    Johnson/Ventura ’12 @ 63,

    I agree with you that Ron Paul will not run LP in 2012, and I agree that he wouldn’t do it for the reasons you mentioned.

    But you gotta rethink this Ventura idea, whether it is for the Pres spot or the VP spot on a Johnson ticket. He somtimes sounds good, but his conspiracy theory nonsense would crucify him and the party. His t.v. show on conspiracies (which is horrible), has some outlandish stuff on it. The 9/11 and Kennedy assassination stuff would be worse…way worse…than the RPaul newslettergate. And he would have no way to deny it, not even the half-assed style denial RPaul has made about the newsletters.

    Additionally, he has made some comments about how some of our troops “deserved” to die in Iraq, like they have some control over the policy.

    Ventura sometimes has a healthy distrust of government. However, he often goes way, WAY off the deep end, and is, in short, toxic to the libertarian movement due to this.

  56. Johnson/Ventura '12

    While I completely respect what you’re saying when it comes to the conspiracy stuff, it doesn’t change the fact that Jesse Ventura was a successful independent governor that helped put strong footing in the State of Minnesota. Jesse Ventura has the executive experience and record showing a libertarian governing.

    Right now, Wayne Root or Steve Kubby would not be an ideal VP running mate. You want someone to run with Gary Johnson that at least has served in some form of government as a libertarian.

    I think tapping into one of the current libertarian mayor’s would be an ideal fit but who really is running for vice president? If Gary Johnson actually goes with Wayne Root, I think I’m going to puke. It’s not a good choice and never will be.

    Jesse Ventura > Wayne Root, if anyone can tell me a better VP choice then Ventura, I would love to hear it.

  57. Nominate Dr. Ron Paul to be the 2012 Libertarian Party POTUS Candidate !

    Jessie denies the lies put out by Fox News and the book hawking sniper that claims he slugged Jessie for making such statements. You will hear more about this soon.

    I think you monkey people who are single bullet theory friends, do the LP a disservice. (Over 75% of Americans {who lived through it} believe in a JFK assassination conspiracy, over 85% believe in a GOD who created the heavens and the earth). Really, I believe in tolerance, some of you need to practice it more, as it makes life better.

    JV would generate CASH, as his followers are enthusiastic like Paul’s. They would walk precincts and place road sides, drop Jeffersons into the treasury. Things that INCREASE vote totals. The local LP mayor (I love them all, but) won’t generate much cash or enthusiasm.

    Build the Party name ID on a Paul/Johnson or Paul/JV ticket and “purify” the newbies at the local level in the future local meeting. I repeat Paul, JV and GJ ALL land in the L quad of the Nolan Chart, hence they are small l and RP & GJ are now Ls officially.

    JV doesn’t plan to run so all Ls need to help GJ become a big time fundraiser QUICK !!! He does have cred, but like many he seems to have holes in his pockets….

    Dr.Paul seems to have a “golden goose”-lol and the LP needs to use some of those eggs! You know, while we can.

    Ron Paul 2012: Our moment is now!- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5_E4EQJhEY&annotation_id=annotation_46987&feature=iv

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *