Posted to IPR on Facebook
LET THE REVOLUTION BEGIN.
People from; the left, right, and center, cry out, “Take Back America.”
The only way to take back our country is to do as our forefathers did in 1776, start a revolution against the powers that be.
We don’t want a violent revolution but we the people of America must revolt if we want to take back our government from the two party, Democrat-Republican oligarchy, now in power.
Imagine a government controlled not by political parties controlled by special interest and Wall Street but by parties controlled by the people and Main Street. The government might start representing the American people instead of the people at Goldman Sacks, Bank of America and, Koch Industries.
Imagine what would happen if all conservatives supported the Constitution Party, all progressives supported the Green Party and all libertarians supported the Libertarian Party. We would have three major parties in the United States, the Democrat and Republican parties would no longer dominate the American political system and we would have some honest debate on the issues facing the American people. We would have no one party majority rule or two party divided government, one the the three parties would always command the balance of power to break any gridlock.
We no longer live under a government by the consent of the governed but an oligarchy ruled by corporate interest and other big money contributors.
The first words of our constitution read, “We the People of the United States,” not we the corporations and elites of the United States. Clearly the founding fathers intended ours to be a government, of, by and for the people.
The time has come to say, “No More,”
The founding fathers did leave, we the people, the power to take back our government and the ultimate weapon to peacefully do so, with the ballot not the bullet. We do have a vote in the governance of our republic.
The Democrats tell the progressives, “don’t support the Green Party, you will divide the vote of the Democrat Party.”
The Republicans tell the conservatives and libertarians, “don’t support the Constitution Party or the Libertarian Party, you will divide the vote of the Republican Party.”
And the true conservatives, libertarians and progressives fall for this argument and we end up with a Democrat-Republican Party dictatorship controlling our government, not in the interest of, we the people, but in the interest of those who pay for their campaigns.
Stop doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
Divide and conquer.
Yes, supporting the Constitution, Green and Libertarian parties divides the Democrat and Republican parties and that’s a good thing. Supporting the Democrat and Republican parties over and over again is insanity. Divide the Democrat and Republican parties and then divide them again until they are no more.
The Democrats and Republicans no longer represent the American people and therefore must be replaced. End the two party dictatorship and take back America. Under no circumstances support political parties that don’t represent, “We the people.” Don’t give aid and comfort to the Democrats and Republicans. Don’t collaborate with the parties who our corrupting our political system.
Revolt and take back America.
Let the Second American Revolution begin.
For God and country,
Bob Haran,
Chairman,
Constitution Party of Arizona.
I have no copyright of this, anyone can use it, improve it or take credit for it, my only request is that they do it, it is the only way I know to peacefully take back America.
One of our top viewed articles in 2014….
Psycho Andy the defective detective: there is nothing to out. I am not part of any operation (although you might very well be!) and I have nothing against this site although its subject matter (political party gangs and campaigns for office in the rigged phony pretense at elections system) is a huge waste of time, especially for well-meaning libertarians who get fooled into participating in that nonsense. I do absolutely plan to sabotage the Libertarian Party by showing its members how it is completely counterproductive to its stated goals. It’s funny for you to say that I am an annoying, pathetic individual, when with every comment you make you prove further, well beyond any shadow of a doubt, how pathetic and crazy you are yourself (I won’t say annoying as I find you to be more of a mix of amusing and sad). Who exactly do you think you are fooling by ridiculously claiming to not care about me and what I have to say (that the LP is worse than worthless) when it is clearly consuming you? I am obviously your master, the object of all your thoughts; I am the first thing you think of when you wake up and the last thing on your mind as you drift off to sleep. You are burning with an overwhelming need to know more about me, but it isn’t going to happen. Spence is all you will ever know. That, and that the LP is worse than worthless. Deal with it!
“Spence January 25, 2014 at 3:53 pm
Yes wackjob Andy, your comments are indeed a load of manure. You obviously care a lot about who I am because you keep going on and on about it like a mentally deranged energizer bunny.”
The only thing that I’m interested in when it comes to you it outing you. Why? Because I suspect that it may be a part of a sabotage operation against the site and the Libertarian Party. You, at the very least, are an annoying, pathetic individual. I don’t really give a rat’s ass about you, or anything you have to say beyond that.
Yes wackjob Andy, your comments are indeed a load of manure. You obviously care a lot about who I am because you keep going on and on about it like a mentally deranged energizer bunny. That makes it obvious that if demented Andy, the defective detective, ever found out more about me there would be endless ad hominem attacks, harassment, and off-line stalking. No thanks! And this is clearly because you care a lot about what I have to say, because it is getting under your skin and causing massive cognitive dissonance and rage induced temper tantrums and out of control hyperventilation on your part. Lots of people post under their full names and lots of people do not; so what? The point is not who is posting under a full name (I’m not) or a real name (I am) but that the LP is counterproductive to its stated purpose. That’s what you keep trying, and failing, to run from.
Not knowing who I am is just an excuse to not deal with it. If you knew more about me you would find new excuses to avoid dealing with the fact that your party is an utter failure.
“Spence January 25, 2014 at 3:39 pm
No crazy Andy, that has been addressed. I do post under my real name, I just don’t give you as much information as you want so off your rocker psycho stalkers can harass me in real life or so you can shift the focus to ad hominem attacks away from the issue that the LP is worse than worthless.”
What a load of shit! Lots of other people post here under their real names. This is just an excuse. Like anybody gives enough of a rat’s ass about you or what you have to say.
No crazy Andy, that has been addressed. I do post under my real name, I just don’t give you as much information as you want so off your rocker psycho stalkers can harass me in real life or so you can shift the focus to ad hominem attacks away from the issue that the LP is worse than worthless. That has been addressed multiple times so you are not making your “argument” (more accurately, failed attempt at distraction) any more credible by endlessly repeating it. The issue remains what I say – LP is worse than worthless – not who said it. You want to avoid the issue so you keep trying to change the subject. If you learned more about me you would find things about me to try to shift the focus to (ad hominem) and perhaps harass and stalk me offline. No thanks. What I say is equally true regardless of who says it, so quit the failed attempts to change the subject – all they do is show you are trying to run away from addressing the real issue: that the LP is counterproductive to its stated purpose.
‘Spence January 25, 2014 at 1:43 pm
I didn’t post as Ancient Aryan Astronaut or any other name besides Spence. I’m not a racist.”
You also do not post under your real name, so you therefore have no credibility. Nobody should believe anything that you say.
I didn’t post as Ancient Aryan Astronaut or any other name besides Spence. I’m not a racist. I don’t have access to the dashboard, whatever that is. I’m not signed up as a writer for IPR. I haven’t been monitoring the site for a long time. The similarities you imagine between my writing and Thomas Knapp’s are entirely a figment of your imagination, and no one else sees them except for you. I am not a troll. You, psycho Andy, however, are a troll, and have been monitoring the site for a long time apparently. Perhaps you have somehow gained access to this “dashboard.” You also seem to have a lot of expertise in government infiltration, most likely from having engaged in it yourself. The LP is worse than worthless.
“William Saturn January 25, 2014 at 4:09 am
The most disturbing aspect of this thread is the haphazard revealing of IP addresses and the removal of Ancient Aryan Astronaut post(s) from the trash bin.”
The fact that whoever this person is, they can have access to the IPR dashboard and can remove things from the trash is a piece of evidence that points to the culprit being signed up as a writer at IPR. This, along with the fact that whoever has been doing this has been monitoring the site for a long time, as well as the similarities in writing style and content between “Spence’s” posts and post from Tom Knapp, are what leads me to list Tom Knapp as a top suspect for being the troll (though perhaps I should say a troll, since there may be more than one of them).
Unhinged Andy is just repeating stuff I’ve already addressed, without addressing the substance – because he can’t. So here’s the reply that was already posted that addresses everything he just said. And I can see he is an expert on trolls and government agents, most likely because he is one himself!
Of course lunatic Andy is not failing to notice that everyone can see his failure to address the substance (that the LP is worse than worthless), his failure to guess my identity (which doesn’t matter anyway and is just a deflection from his failure to address the substance), his utter failure to produce what anyone else except himself considers to be evidence for his contention that I am Thomas Knapp, his failure to act sane, and his overall failure in all respects. This is driving bats in the belfry Andy into paraxysms of red faced rage and uncontrolled hyperventilation. Too bad, because despite his two year old like temper tantrums he will continue to not get what he wants. No more info and I’m not going away.
Since nutbar Andy keeps repeating the same discredited nonsense over and over again I will just cut and paste….
Andy the untreated mental patient troll:
“What you call a “circus” I call investigating the facts and seeing where they take me, which is back to you.”
Does it bother you at all that nobody agrees with your “analysis” of the “facts” and that even the LP suckers here find your crazy train of non-sequiturs and poorly strung together delusions to be laughable? Such monumental failure would drive any sane man away with deep, everlasting shame.
“The writing style and comments from “Spence” sound very much like you. Is this a coincidence?”
No, it’s a delusion (hallucination) on your part. Does anyone else besides crazy Andy think my style sounds like Thomas Knapp’s?
” Is it a coincidence that “Spence” brought up Claire Wolfe and you just so happen to have multiple posts on Claire Wolfe’s blog?”
Yes, it is. It just happened to be a handy list of some other things some of which people here could do for liberty which actually work as opposed to the LP which doesn’t. First thing that popped into my head when someone asked. If I had the article from Wendy McElroy that Tom Blanton posted in front of me at that time, I may have mentioned her list instead.
” Why is “Spence,” who is trying to keep his/her identity secret,”
I’m not trying to keep my identity secret. I’m not interested in telling you anything beyond my first name and getting into ad hominem arguments. I am however interested in keeping my comments separate from other people’s. Therefore, I have repeatedly told you already, I am not anyone else who has posted under any other name here.
“claiming that they are not Tom Knapp?”
I am just one man, not a they, and there’s no claim involved; I’m simply not Tom Knapp, or Randy (I still haven’t even seen his comments), or a troll, a nazi, a racist, a Republican, an LP member, an IPR author, a government agent or any of the other things you claim I am. I am just me and my comments stand on their own, period end of story. You are only pursuing these distractions since you don’t want to confront the substance of my comments and because you are a mentally ill paranoid troll and possible government agent yourself.
” Wouldn’t being mistaken for Tom Knapp be good for “Spence” if “Spence” was not really Tom Knapp?”
No. I don’t want to be mistaken for anyone else no matter who they are. This has already been explained to you, yet you keep repeating yourself like a crazy person wandering the streets downtown. Nor do I want ad hominem attacks, or stalkers, or crazy people like you finding out where I live etc., so no, I will not give you anything beyond a first name. I don’t care if you don’t like it. Deal with the substance of what I say. The fact that you can’t and won’t speaks volumes.
“If you were not really Tom Knapp, why the fuck would you give a rat’s ass if anyone thought you were Tom Knapp. ”
I don’t want to be mistaken for anyone else or have them mistaken for me. On the other hand I hope YOU keep thinking and claiming I am Tom Knapp, since nobody’s buying it and it just makes you look crazier every time you repeat it.
“Being mistaken for Tom Knapp would benefit a real troll who was not Tom Knapp. ”
So you want to be mistake for Tom Knapp? LOL.
” The feds probably monitor this site just like they were doing to Anti-War.com.”
Yeah, I’m sure YOU would know!
Thomas,
“There is no “fire” to add “fuel” to. I am not Spence. Spence is not me. Those are the facts.
The only real takeaway from this teapot tempest obsession of yours is that your curious ideas of what constitutes “evidence” seem to me to shed light on your other ideas regarding other topics.”
True, but why be so polite? Let’s just all agree that Andy is a paranoid, mentally ill troll who may well be a government plant.
Paulio,
“Milnes blog.
http://rwm4prez2012.wordpress.com/ ”
Wow, that guy sounds almost as paranoid and crazy as Andy. I could see why the antirevolutionary thinks they would be a good fit together.
Andy with his inept “investigation” has been playing ringleader, and clown all at the same time.
“His campaign was going nowhere. Ending the campaign was a mercy killing. ”
This would be true for the whole party as well! It is going nowhere and ending the LP would be a mercy killing. Let’s focus on that instead of Andy’s paranoid “investigations” of his hallucinations.
Robert provides a perfect illustration of how I view all of your participation in the counterproductive LP:
Well, what would do if you saw a person repeatedly put his/her nose to a grindstone? One could walk on by. Or one could bring – with as much compassion as possible – the fact that putting one’s nose to the grindstone is not only unproductive, it’s damaging!
All of you who are in the LP are putting your nose to the grindstone and I feel the need to let you know!
Andy
“You being a troll here would certainly explain a lot.”
Except that you are the troll, not me.
“We know that somebody has been trolling here for a long time. We know that this person closely monitors the cite…. and is also an LP member, or at least a former LP member.”
Yep, sounds like Andy. I guess that proves Andy is the troll. As for me none of those pertain to me so I am not your troll. But maybe Andy is.
“nose to the grindstone PLUS a self-inflicted hammer to the head!” Perfect description of both Andy and the LP.
Thomas to Andy:
“I occasionally wonder whether you really live in some strange dream world or whether you’re an active, intentional promulgator of lies. But there’s no doubt it’s one or the other.”
I highly suspect it is both.
Robert:
“Given A’s propensity to adopt half-baked conspiracy theories, he has a predisposition to accept (“we know”) scraps of perception as full-blown evidence. There may be a deep-seated paranoia there that’s projected out as intense, stark conspiracies that he shares with others as “fact.”
Given his consistency of storytelling, he seems quite sincere in his beliefs, although like many paranoids, there seems to be a willingness to lie to maintain the constructed belief system, for the alternative is unbearable for them. So deep is the denial that it’s an open question whether the lies are done consciously or not. Living in a constant state of terror disorients.
Compassionate firmness seems in order.”
Very perceptive and accurate diagnosis of Andy. And, while I am at it, of the LP as a whole!
Anyway back to the subject…the LP is worse than worthless and more of its candidates need to follow Lee Wrights’s lead here and drop out. Encourage them to do so by not donating!
Everyone just quit the LP. Last one to leave don’t forget to turn out the lights!
William Saturn, I don’t know if it’s the most disturbing aspect or not, but I do agree that IP addresses should not be posted unless there’s a compelling reason although they did not reveal anything in this case other than that some people are using an IP anonymizing service that many people have presumably used). I also agree that the trash should not be cleared right away like that.
The most disturbing aspect of this thread is the haphazard revealing of IP addresses and the removal of Ancient Aryan Astronaut post(s) from the trash bin. We need to have a 24 hour rule or some length of time between deletion and complete deletion so that we can see what trolls post and compare it to what others post.
Internet Shills & Hired Trolls-What You NEED to Know
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTnttBj4lT4
Confirmed Government employing Internet Trolls and Astroturfers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygk7U5dq9vM
BUSTED! Governments Hire Web Trolls to Sway Public Opinion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYqyDiB3EYM
Undercover FBI Informant Infiltrates Peace Movement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF3zhD_tP00
Government Spy Infiltrated Twin Cities Antiwar Groups Before FBI Raids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdA7_2IOxYg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0d5OBnmxw4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhlvN96FF2o
Here’s a news story about a peace group in Washington being infiltrated by a fed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRWY5m9W_SI
“Spence January 25, 2014 at 1:31 am
Since nutbar Andy keeps repeating the same discredited nonsense over and over again I will just cut and paste….”
Unmask you coward. You are a shit stain on the underwear of IPR. Until you post under a real name which can be verified, everything you say should be deleted. The fact that you hide behind a fake name means that you’ve got no courage in your convictions.
Since nutbar Andy keeps repeating the same discredited nonsense over and over again I will just cut and paste….
Andy the untreated mental patient troll:
“What you call a “circus” I call investigating the facts and seeing where they take me, which is back to you.”
Does it bother you at all that nobody agrees with your “analysis” of the “facts” and that even the LP suckers here find your crazy train of non-sequiturs and poorly strung together delusions to be laughable? Such monumental failure would drive any sane man away with deep, everlasting shame.
“The writing style and comments from “Spence” sound very much like you. Is this a coincidence?”
No, it’s a delusion (hallucination) on your part. Does anyone else besides crazy Andy think my style sounds like Thomas Knapp’s?
” Is it a coincidence that “Spence” brought up Claire Wolfe and you just so happen to have multiple posts on Claire Wolfe’s blog?”
Yes, it is. It just happened to be a handy list of some other things some of which people here could do for liberty which actually work as opposed to the LP which doesn’t. First thing that popped into my head when someone asked. If I had the article from Wendy McElroy that Tom Blanton posted in front of me at that time, I may have mentioned her list instead.
” Why is “Spence,” who is trying to keep his/her identity secret,”
I’m not trying to keep my identity secret. I’m not interested in telling you anything beyond my first name and getting into ad hominem arguments. I am however interested in keeping my comments separate from other people’s. Therefore, I have repeatedly told you already, I am not anyone else who has posted under any other name here.
“claiming that they are not Tom Knapp?”
I am just one man, not a they, and there’s no claim involved; I’m simply not Tom Knapp, or Randy (I still haven’t even seen his comments), or a troll, a nazi, a racist, a Republican, an LP member, an IPR author, a government agent or any of the other things you claim I am. I am just me and my comments stand on their own, period end of story. You are only pursuing these distractions since you don’t want to confront the substance of my comments and because you are a mentally ill paranoid troll and possible government agent yourself.
” Wouldn’t being mistaken for Tom Knapp be good for “Spence” if “Spence” was not really Tom Knapp?”
No. I don’t want to be mistaken for anyone else no matter who they are. This has already been explained to you, yet you keep repeating yourself like a crazy person wandering the streets downtown. Nor do I want ad hominem attacks, or stalkers, or crazy people like you finding out where I live etc., so no, I will not give you anything beyond a first name. I don’t care if you don’t like it. Deal with the substance of what I say. The fact that you can’t and won’t speaks volumes.
“If you were not really Tom Knapp, why the fuck would you give a rat’s ass if anyone thought you were Tom Knapp. ”
I don’t want to be mistaken for anyone else or have them mistaken for me. On the other hand I hope YOU keep thinking and claiming I am Tom Knapp, since nobody’s buying it and it just makes you look crazier every time you repeat it.
“Being mistaken for Tom Knapp would benefit a real troll who was not Tom Knapp. ”
So you want to be mistake for Tom Knapp? LOL.
” The feds probably monitor this site just like they were doing to Anti-War.com.”
Yeah, I’m sure YOU would know!
Thomas,
“There is no “fire” to add “fuel” to. I am not Spence. Spence is not me. Those are the facts.
The only real takeaway from this teapot tempest obsession of yours is that your curious ideas of what constitutes “evidence” seem to me to shed light on your other ideas regarding other topics.”
True, but why be so polite? Let’s just all agree that Andy is a paranoid, mentally ill troll who may well be a government plant.
Paulio,
“Milnes blog.
http://rwm4prez2012.wordpress.com/ ”
Wow, that guy sounds almost as paranoid and crazy as Andy. I could see why the antirevolutionary thinks they would be a good fit together.
Andy with his inept “investigation” has been playing ringleader, and clown all at the same time.
“His campaign was going nowhere. Ending the campaign was a mercy killing. ”
This would be true for the whole party as well! It is going nowhere and ending the LP would be a mercy killing. Let’s focus on that instead of Andy’s paranoid “investigations” of his hallucinations.
Robert provides a perfect illustration of how I view all of your participation in the counterproductive LP:
Well, what would do if you saw a person repeatedly put his/her nose to a grindstone? One could walk on by. Or one could bring – with as much compassion as possible – the fact that putting one’s nose to the grindstone is not only unproductive, it’s damaging!
All of you who are in the LP are putting your nose to the grindstone and I feel the need to let you know!
Andy
“You being a troll here would certainly explain a lot.”
Except that you are the troll, not me.
“We know that somebody has been trolling here for a long time. We know that this person closely monitors the cite…. and is also an LP member, or at least a former LP member.”
Yep, sounds like Andy. I guess that proves Andy is the troll. As for me none of those pertain to me so I am not your troll. But maybe Andy is.
“nose to the grindstone PLUS a self-inflicted hammer to the head!” Perfect description of both Andy and the LP.
Thomas to Andy:
“I occasionally wonder whether you really live in some strange dream world or whether you’re an active, intentional promulgator of lies. But there’s no doubt it’s one or the other.”
I highly suspect it is both.
Robert:
“Given A’s propensity to adopt half-baked conspiracy theories, he has a predisposition to accept (“we know”) scraps of perception as full-blown evidence. There may be a deep-seated paranoia there that’s projected out as intense, stark conspiracies that he shares with others as “fact.”
Given his consistency of storytelling, he seems quite sincere in his beliefs, although like many paranoids, there seems to be a willingness to lie to maintain the constructed belief system, for the alternative is unbearable for them. So deep is the denial that it’s an open question whether the lies are done consciously or not. Living in a constant state of terror disorients.
Compassionate firmness seems in order.”
Very perceptive and accurate diagnosis of Andy. And, while I am at it, of the LP as a whole!
Anyway back to the subject…the LP is worse than worthless and more of its candidates need to follow Lee Wrights’s lead here and drop out. Encourage them to do so by not donating!
Everyone just quit the LP. Last one to leave don’t forget to turn out the lights!
“Spence January 25, 2014 at 12:39 am
All of you immature amateur detectives are barking up the wrong tree. I am not a nazi, racist, or troll and we have been over this a bunch of times. I have not posted any hateful comments. I am not Tom Knapp.”
If you were not really Tom Knapp, why the fuck would you give a rat’s ass if anyone thought you were Tom Knapp. Being mistaken for Tom Knapp would benefit a real troll who was not Tom Knapp.
Perhaps a FOIA ought to be done on Thomas Knapp, as well as all of the campaigns he’s worked. I wonder if it will be found out that there was a government mole on any of those campaigns. The same goes for IPR. The feds probably monitor this site just like they were doing to Anti-War.com.
Jill…best idea yet 🙂
Hopefully, if we all ignore Spence, he’ll get tired of repeating the same thing over and over again to himself and find some other blog to frequent.
All of you immature amateur detectives are barking up the wrong tree. I am not a nazi, racist, or troll and we have been over this a bunch of times. I have not posted any hateful comments. I am not Tom Knapp. I am not this Randy person whose comments I have yet to even see (can someone at least point to where they were?). I am not dodging anything; I don’t want ad hominem attacks or crazy stalkers like moonbat Andy harassing me in real life. I am not a Republican or Libertarian, I don’t write for IPR, simply put none of this is true no matter how many times the same lies get repeated by the same liars and one wacked out psychopath Andy who is actually probably the troll himself (we already know he is a troll and probably a government agent to boot). All of this is just a failed attempt on your part to avoid dealing with the reality I am pointing out that the LP is worse than worthless. You are failing to keep yourselves from being made aware of it, you are failing to impress me, you are failing in the battle of logic and wits and you are failing just like your party is failing. I will keep rubbing your noses in it some more. You don’t have to like it but you will deal with it.
Jill …both of those IPs, and a bunch of others in the 193.200.150s are from http://anonymouse.org/ which anonymizes IPs so they may or may not be the same person.
Either way Spence is a troll, but he may or may not be THE troll.
“Spence January 24, 2014 at 11:39 pm
The LP, voting and political party gangs …all of that is just pissing in the wind. And notice how Jed challenges me to rational, reasoned debate on the issue, I accept, and he runs away?”
Notice how “Spence” dodges verifying his real name and location.
“Jill Pyeatt January 25, 2014 at 12:02 am
I agree that we should all just ignore Spence. Whenever he’s online, I have to monitor his comments, and I’m too busy for that now. His IP is one number off from the Nazi troll I deleted earlier so I guess that’s not him, but I still suspect he has posted some of the more hateful comments which have to be deleted.
Spence’s IP: 193.200.150.125
Ancient Aryan Astronaut: 193.200.150.152”
OK, I think that it is pretty obvious that “Spence” is indeed the Nazi Troll, and was in fact the same person posting personal attacks on here a while back, and has also posted “Spence” like material under the name “Randy.”
I also think that I have already likely outed “Spence” as Tom Knapp. I doubt that the similarities in the posts from “Spence” and from Tom Knapp are just a coincidence. Give it up Tom, the jig is up.
I agree that we should all just ignore Spence. Whenever he’s online, I have to monitor his comments, and I’m too busy for that now. His IP is one number off from the Nazi troll I deleted earlier so I guess that’s not him, but I still suspect he has posted some of the more hateful comments which have to be deleted.
Spence’s IP: 193.200.150.125
Ancient Aryan Astronaut: 193.200.150.152
The LP, voting and political party gangs …all of that is just pissing in the wind. And notice how Jed challenges me to rational, reasoned debate on the issue, I accept, and he runs away?
Responding to Spence is just pissing into the wind.
I don’t even read his posts anymore, and I’d encourage everyone else to do the same.
S[pence and you are just pissing into the wind.
Jed I am more than willing to have rational, reasoned debate on the issue, what arguments do you have to present? Please by all means …
Steve yes it goes to the heart but the LP is just tying yourselves in knots and shooting yourself in the foot….nothing more and nothing less….it is just that simple. The sooner you get it the better off you will be. Some like poor cuckoo Andy may never get it but I have high hopes for you anyway. I will keep trying to shine the light and hope you see your way out of the darkness.
But Spence doesn’t argue. He trolls. If he was willing to have rational, reasoned debate on the issue, fine. But Spence’s posts basically amount to “LP SUCKS YER ALL LOSER LULZ”
Paulio, obviously you are in need of remedial education. Let’s review again for the slow learners in the class such as yourself: Craaaaaaaaaaaaazy Andy is the troll here, not me. Anyone got any paulio vaccine handy to vaccinate against paulio and wacko nut Andy?
Steve, you still trust the system way too much. You underestimate their capability to manipulate and lull people into complacency.
Churchill, valid thoughts…thank you!
Bondurant, the Republicans are just another political gang and they are overly paranoid about other political gangs stepping on what they consider to be their turf, no matter how tiny and inconsequential the trespassing gang is. Like nutbar Andy, the Republicans are way to paranoid….but that does not mean that their paranoia is justified. In both cases it is not.
I disagree paulie, this goes to the heart of the issue about whether or not to participate in the electoral system. Those like Spence who argue that we shouldn’t dream of other ways of changing the system but I disagree that as long as you have a method of non-violently changing the system then that will work far before you have to break the economics of the country to enact change. As in effective as the Libertarian Party has been, it exists as a way when the system starts to break to effect change in a non-violent and non-destructive way.
As far as Spence goes
‘Treason’, equates to any centralized form of government that prefers/dictates Authoritarianism over sovereign Individual and State Rights in complete dis-regard of the Declaration of Independence and the original TEN AMENDMENTS of the US Constitution. The concept of a revolution without the shedding of blood is rather amusing, as, it never happened before in WORLD HISTORY. Ghandi’s so called ”Peaceful Revolution’ brought India into the arms of the UN.. The American Constitutional Republic was based on Individual and State sovereignty , the current form since the American Civil War is based on a Corporate/Government Authoritarianism as like the economy, taxation, fees, permits, licenses and etc that they have created for us. ‘Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness’, what a concept as, no one alive in the US to date has ever has been given the right or permission to sample actual freedom.
Spence it isn’t about trusting the system. It is about understanding the behavior of people. The NSA and the rest of the security/spy services are delusional if they think that they can have thousands of employees and then engage in spying on the population without someone eventually leaking the documents. According to the NIMH about 1 in 4 Americans have a mental health issue and about 1 in 17 has a serious issue. If an agency has 10 thousand of employees then it will have a fair number that will get fed up and spill the beans no mater how much they punish the last person who did it.
Its one thing to change the vote count in a couple of states in a couple of precincts to sway a close election its another thing to do it on a wide scale basis in the event of a voter uprising.
Iran did this in their 2009 election and had to use their armed gangs of thugs to suppress their demonstrations which had 100’s of thousands demonstrating in the streets of Tehran.
Good points, Bondurant.
If the LP was worthless then the National GOP would not have put their Arizona affiliates on the war path. Alternative choices are becoming more appreciated from voters who continue to flock away from the GOP (and Democrats).
It must be a slow Friday when trolling on IPR is the height of weekend entertainment.
Andy, I know you are mentally deranged and that you have strong cognitive dissonance leading to uncontrolled rage over the fact that I have conclusively proven that the LP is worse than worthless. However, I am not going to give you any information for your loony tunes crazy self to stalk or harass me with nor will I shut up or go away no matter how much you scream in all caps, curse or call names. You’ll just have to keep dealing with the reality I am putting forward – that your party is just shooting yourselves in the foot and nothing more – no matter how much you hate having your nose rubbed in it. And I see you really hate it a lot!
“Spence January 24, 2014 at 10:14 pm
Yes, loony Andy, deflection is exactly what you are trying to do but you are failing”
Listen you piece of chickenshit, either “man up” and reveal your full name and location or SHUT THE FUCK UP.
How about this, either “Spence” unmask as a real person who can be independently verified, or all of “his” posts get automatically taken down?
I still think that you are probably Tom Knapp, but regardless of this, FUCK OFF AND DIE.
Yes, loony Andy, deflection is exactly what you are trying to do but you are failing. Even your fellow LP suckers are all saying you are crazy, paranoid, off your rocker, a liar, living in a dream world, a troll and/or a government plant which is exactly what you accuse others of being. Everyone finds your standards of “evidence” to be laughable, pathetic or both. No one except you think I am Tom Knapp and they all think you are out of your mind for insisting that I am. So keep up the good work…you are convincing no one of anything except what a whack job you are and nothing is sticking to me while the crazy stink is sticking all over you. You are failing at deflecting your own or anyone else’s attention away from the substance I am bringing forth, that the LP is worse than useless, as well. Keep it up!
Steve, you trust the system way too much. That is all I have for you right now.
“Spence January 24, 2014 at 7:11 pm
The most likely scenario here, is that nutjob Andy is actually all or at least some of the things he accuses others of being, which he is just doing to draw suspicion away from himself.”
Ah, the old deflection tactic. I am rubber you are glue, whatever you say about me bounces of me and sticks to you. Good one, Tom.
“I’ve been voting third party in general elections for years now.”
Same. Started in ’08, voted for Nader for President & Libertarians for other offices. Have grown even more hostile to the duopoly ever since. They’re ruining this country.
spence, more delusions. In a close election funny business may swing the election…. but if their is a large popular swing in one direction then funny business causes demonstrations if not riots.
When you include the observers at polling places, the exit polls and the large conspiracy that it would take to totally steal an election…. there would be hundreds of Edward Snowden’s exposing them.
So no, I am not paranoid to think that a popular enough vote would lose to theft.
I’ve been voting third party in general elections for years now. There is no mention of political parties in the Constitution, anyway; so, why on Earth have only two??? With only two parties, the tendency is for one to become similar to the other, until the term “two sides of one coin” are eventually fact; and, this is what we have today.
Bob Haran of Arizona is absolutely correct. It IS time we take our country back; it IS ours, is it not? For all those who don’t agree and are totally satisfied with the status quo, I’ll leave a relevant quote for you to consider.
“You have been sat too long here for any good you have been doing, Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!” ~ Oliver Cromwell
Rather than trying to tackle the Feds, work out by osmosis from the local. Local government, starting with the City Councils, are much more amenable to the interests of their constituents. You can actually sit down and have a beer and conversation with them.
If you have a enough people together on an issue, be it urban farms, eminent domain, fracking, gun ownership, school issues, city ordinances or supply of local resources to the NSA, you can change you local environment.
Movements grow incrementally and combine tangendentaly until new ideas take over…much like planting beneficial plants to disploace weeds in the yard. Our collective “yard” has not been weeded in decades.
Both the Tea Party and Occupy were infiltrated. I recall being there and watching the money, power players, camp followers and denigrators filter in.
In effective social change, only about 3.5% of people are active. While I do not know the percent of the original Tea Party particioants, Occupy was 1%. They both were excellent beginnings! Except for a few notes, they were singing the same song.
You must be being sarcastic.
Well, this became a really interesting thread over the past few hours.
Mr. Mealer, I am sure you and Mr. Hess agree on any given number of issues. My preference for Mr. Hess would be his solid libertarian philosophy, opposition to Clean Elections and his history of running for office in AZ. He’s also been instrumental in fighting against HB2305.
The most likely scenario here, is that nutjob Andy is actually all or at least some of the things he accuses others of being, which he is just doing to draw suspicion away from himself.
Refocus
The electonic townhall idea has the same problem as any other voting (most especially electronic ballots). It’s not those that vote that count but those that count the votes. Mr. Perot has a longstanding relationship with military intelligence agencies that is well documented and I would suggest that people look towards other solutions that do not involve voting at all.
Steve
“Adam, it wasn’t Gandhi working alone the made England capitulate to his demands. Same for Martin Luther King Jr. A peaceful revolution works when enough people decide to jointly resist and take part in work stoppages, refuse to pay taxes, refuse to do the bidding of the government.
But, another argument goes, if you can get that level of support you can win the election and take over the government and make it into what you want.”
That argument goes…right out the window, when you consider, as has been mentioned by others in the thread that it’s not those that vote that count, but those that count the votes.
So now that we all understand that voting is worse than useless and is just legitimizing an illegitimate system we are back to looking at other means to create change, whether it was those preferred by Mahatma Ghandi, those preferred by America’s Founders, or some others….anything but the sham, mirage, dead end path of voting and political parties. That one is truly a road to nowhere and just sucks up the time, money and energy of people who understand many of the problems and could be putting those resources to good use instead.
“Fine, but Mr. Evenson wasn’t trolling, he was merely stating an opinion.”
Same thing I did, but then psycho Andy and some of the rest of you (starting with crazy Andy) right away started claiming that I’m a troll, a nazi, a Republican, a Libertarian, a government agent, a racist, one of your writers, various other people that posted in the past here whose comments I haven’t even read much less write, etc, etc, none of which is true. And when I dispelled those myths wacko Andy just kept repeating them as if that would make them true.
No, I’m not your Knapp culprit, Andy. I’m no regular, either. One might call me “doctor,” though, as I do inject reality into situations occasionally. Your call for revolution is but one voice among a growing chorus these days. As for me, personally, I did my revolutionary thang a long time ago, standing entirely alone, sort of as Gandhi did his, except that mine was a long way from peaceful, and the world is just beginning to catch up behind me. You need to get acclimated to the troll, however, as the Pentagon hires them (with your bucks, of course), by the hundreds of thousand. There may be as many as a million by now. Let’s see, at $50,000 per year per troll, that would come to only $50,000,000,000.00 per year, which is only peanuts to the Pentagon. Nonetheless, because I slightly disagree with your whole package does not indicate troll. Trolls are so easy to spot. All one has to do is open eyes and look.
During the 1992 Presidential campaign Ross Perot observed that “a
general lack of accountability among elected officials and those in the bureaucracy was the one specific reason that the people in America suffered”.
Mr. Perot then suggested that the best and perhaps only way to make government officials accountable was to include the citizens in the decision making process. He went on to note that this can easily be done with computers and called the proposed mechanism THE ELECTRONIC TOWNHALL.
With this computer program every citizen can indicate whether or not they agree or disagree with every law, policy and program on the books or that was being advanced. It can work for every level of government and in every jurisdiction.
The Constitution and Bill of Rights would be exempt from review but the various laws and government policies that do effect each and every one of us would be available for the citizens ratification or annulment. The program would even allow a citizen to go back and change his vote as he matured.
The gray area…
As the data is collected, a reasonable person would expect that the
government officials would modify the laws, policies, and programs and make them congruent with the will of the people they are supposed to be representing.
With tens of millions of laws there is plenty of work to be done.
According to Mr. Perot, this, the harnessed experience and the combined intelligence of hundreds of thousands or even millions of citizens focused like a laser light on the real issues, will, as surely as night follows the day, perfect every law in our country and eventually it will right every wrong.
Mr. Perot publicly announced his intention to give the people in America the ELECTRONIC TOWNHALL if he was elected President.
But this modern concept for truly representative self government was so far removed from the business-as-usual-two-party-system that the talking heads, trolls, and cointelpro agents yelled out that Mr. Perot was trying to destroy our Constitution, our government and our way of life.
A reading of The Constitution shows that the founders specified the representation of one congressman for every thirty five thousand persons. Today we have one congressman for every 650,000 persons. None the less, and certainly not to be swayed by the facts, the media was so intensely negative towards the ELECTRONIC TOWNHALL that Mr. Perot was forced to stop talking about it.
We now enter our fifth national election cycle since the introduction of the concept. No other person of national reputation or of significant influence has since picked up the idea, but the talking heads for both parties regularly stage “townhall meetings” where they talk of “reform” and “returning power to the people”. Thus they try to ingratiate themselves with those who share a favorable sub-consciousness towards the idea without actually adding to its manifestation.
We are offered only one solution: “candidates with a sense of morality and respect for the Constitution who really understand true brotherhood, justice and democracy and who will do the right thing for us each and every time”. Many of these same people denounce the ELECTONIC TOWNHALL as unworkable. They claim that allowing the average citizen to pass judgment on public law is tantamount to anarchy. But the truth is: only the concerned will bother to participate.
While we cannot make light of sincere individuals we must acknowledge the fact that regardless of who has been elected to public office the problems in our government get more complicated and our people continue to suffer.
It appears obvious; we need something besides business as usual.
Could we possibly admit that our national situation, now being made global, is far too complicated for the President and the 535 elected members of the legislature to manage in our best interests?
You, the person reading this know some of the things we need.
Your friends, our fellow countrymen have their solutions too.
But the only way to organize the workable ideas is to create a device that will enable all of us to simultaneously contribute our best thinking and most benevolent experience towards solving our most complicated problems.
That device is THE ELECTRONIC TOWNHALL and the place to begin is with our existing laws.
In 1996 Rush Limbaugh mentioned the site by accident. We got 15 thousand hits in 24 hours and 4 thousand people answered the homepage survey question: (after some preamble)
*How long should a legally arrived elderly immigrant have to wait before they start collecting social security?*
In less than two weeks the US Congress changed the criteria from 6 months to two years.
As living witnesses to the political power this device holds for civilized humanity, we urge you to participate fully in the prototype ELECTRONIC TOWNHALL and forward the news of its existence to all those you know to be interested in the future well being of the people of our country.
Adam, it wasn’t Gandhi working alone the made England capitulate to his demands. Same for Martin Luther King Jr. A peaceful revolution works when enough people decide to jointly resist and take part in work stoppages, refuse to pay taxes, refuse to do the bidding of the government.
But, another argument goes, if you can get that level of support you can win the election and take over the government and make it into what you want.
“It’s not an obsession with Tom Knapp, it is a wanting to find the piece of shit or pieces of shit who have been trolling here for years.”
Fine, but Mr. Evenson wasn’t trolling, he was merely stating an opinion.
The reason that Andy is so butthurt is that I have conclusively proven that his beloved Libertarian Party is actually worse than useless and is in fact counterproductive, and he just doesn’t want to face those facts, so he has to make up bullshit and lies to try to change the subject. However, that is just not going to work, and even his fellow LP suckers are all agreeing that he is paranoid, mentally ill and even a troll and possible government plant.
“It’s not an obsession with Tom Knapp, it is a wanting to find the piece of shit or pieces of shit who have been trolling here for years.”
Look in the mirror, Bubba.
Just look at the ignominous, shameful defeat poor crazy Andy suffered in the latest comments in this thread:
http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2014/01/lee-wrights-drops-out-of-texas-gubernatorial-race/
BTW – great points from the new folks coming over from Rense.com about how the vote counting/electoral system is a sham and about pursuing non-electoral strategies for freedom that actually work (unlike voting and politics) earlier in this thread!
“Jed Ziggler Post authorJanuary 24, 2014 at 6:03 pm
Andy, please stop accusing everybody of being Tom Knapp. Your obsession with him leads me to question your sanity.”
It’s not an obsession with Tom Knapp, it is a wanting to find the piece of shit or pieces of shit who have been trolling here for years.
There’s no question about Andy’s sanity. He’s clearly nuts!
Andy, please stop accusing everybody of being Tom Knapp. Your obsession with him leads me to question your sanity.
I have no idea if Tom Knapp does post under different names, nor do I care, he’s free to. My name isn’t really Jed Ziggler.
“Adam Evenson January 24, 2014 at 5:24 pm”
Tom Knapp, or some other IPR writer or regular commenter posting under a fake name?
Those that call for revolution in order to take back the country, as the Fathers did in 1776, continue to call for revolution of the same kind Gandhi employed to take his country back from England. This means that no revolution is called for in the spirit of 1776, as the Fathers didn’t specify: “Let us take our country from England, but we must do it only by peaceful means.” A Continental Army was raised up and a lot of blood was shed. Sometimes revolution can be peaceful, as Gandhi did it, but the entire world has to be lined up like little ducks in a row for such an even to occur. Generally, revolution is a violent proposition or it doesn’t work. If I were to go to Washington and sit outside the Legislative Capitol Building, as Gandhi did it in India (assuming I could do so without being arrested, imprisoned for life or killed), how long does one suppose I would have to sit there waiting on the United States government to capitulate? I’ll bet I would perish of old age first, even if I lived to be 200. I’d be the most famous oldster on the planet, but I don’t believe the government would capitulate.
“Jill Pyeatt January 24, 2014 at 4:21 pm
IP from: Ancient Aryan Astronaut
[email protected]
193.200.150.152″
Jill, I don’t know if there is a connection, but here is where http://www.fire.com goes.
http://www.fire.com/C.html
They have an address in La Canada, CA. That’s close to your neck of the woods. Any ideas?
It could of course be Tom Knapp or somebody else using a fake email address.
“Is this Tom Knapp, or is it another IPR writer posting under a fake name this time?”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cNgxyL5zEAk
I think it’s time to recheck your medication levels, folks.
Some of you are talking about destruction of our union because you have personal issues and opinions that do not mesh with others. That is Anti-Constitutional and as Jack mentioned. One cannot fight High Treason with High Treason.
The Law has been bent so much as to allow the government to consider any citizen or individual a target for treasonous acts and they will use it. There is only one way to fix it and I explain it herein. Now we all know that the NSA, FBI, DHS, et al., know what I intend and I expect them to actually drop their unlawful activity and step up to make this nation NUMBER ONE through Arizona’s lead.
We have an option and it can be done in from one state of the union, by a single elected Governor. Both the millions (combined) federal and state “agents”, police, sheriff departments, et al (sans the nutcases in Chicago and other large cities) would fall right into line and support the Constitutional reversion.
It’s all about Revitalizing and Re-stabilizing our nation. NOT destroying it because you feel bad about yourself.
Do you know the Clean Hands Doctrine? Are you aware that every elected official has committed crimes and is in violation of their oath of office (fraud)?
Are you aware that a newly elected official who has made the stance of enforcing the law and takes a pre-oath as such can then have those criminals charged and arrested, if need be, once elected?
It certainly beats trying to convince millions of people from not voting. We CAN fix it from the inside out, but there is only one way. Read this booklet.
http://jlmealer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/MEALER_Initiative_Jan_2014_2nd_Ed_AzGov1.pdf
NOTE TO BONDURANT- Barry Hess and I have discussed this. He agrees with me.
Keep your guns at home for now folks… Let’s do this the easy way.
IP from: Ancient Aryan Astronaut
[email protected]
193.200.150.152
“Ancient Aryan Astronaut January 24, 2014 at 4:03 pm”
Is this Tom Knapp, or is it another IPR writer posting under a fake name this time?
“The comments are clearly calling for insurrection by any means necessary. That amounts to high treason. Ah, one more site to bring to the attention of my sister-in-law who works for the F.B.I.”
Last I checked we still had freedom of speech in this country, and treason is a very high bar to pass.
As for your sister-in-law, tell her to get a real job.
Steve, that is not entirely true.
Do you know the Clean Hands Doctrine? Are you aware that every elected official has committed crimes and is in violation of their oath of office (fraud)?
Are you aware that a newly elected official who has made the stance of enforcing the law and takes a pre-oath as such can then have those criminals charged and arrested, if need be, once elected?
It certainly beats trying to convince millions of people from not voting. We CAN fix it from the inside out, but there is only one way. Read this booklet.
http://jlmealer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/MEALER_Initiative_Jan_2014_2nd_Ed_AzGov1.pdf
Not saying it’s a bad thing.
jack you are a good little boot licker
rense.com
I wondered the same thing, Paulie, although I’m happy to have new people.
So where are all these people that never commented at IPR ever before coming from? Is this linked somewhere?
The comments are clearly calling for insurrection by any means necessary. That amounts to high treason. Ah, one more site to bring to the attention of my sister-in-law who works for the F.B.I.
Anyone who tells you to vote to change the system is either ignorant or is intentionally part of the problem. The political chameleons will just morph into the new entity and continue their business as usual. The Tea Party is a good example of this. By voting you are legitimizing the system and in so doing giving them the excuse to abuse you. If you want anything to change you must stop voting altogether. Vote for yourself and become your own leader. Opt out of their system. Stop banking, stop buying crap except for necessities, educate your children even if they attend school. Grow a garden and become as self sufficient as you possibly can. Whatever it is that they want you to do, do exactly the opposite. By doing as much for yourself as you can you will shrink their world and their influence over you. That is the best way to reform the system so that all these bastards will finally have to develop some real skill to survive instead of taxing the shit out off us so that they can live a lavish lifestyle.
I’m tired of hearing “we don’t want a violent revolution”
What bs there’s no way shit is going to get done any other way….its long passed due and the only thing that will back these vipers down is force! Absolute, unwavering force!
That’s what’s our forefathers did…took it to the enemy “boot in ass”!
It won’t work to try to keep the whole country as one unit – it’s just too damn big to be controlled by the people. The constitution was meant to apply to 13 tiny states.
Mr. Haran is right! The federal government is out of control and openly hostile to the US Constitution, truth, justice, and liberty! Government officials don’t even bother to pretend to be honest, representative, or accountable anymore. We need to overturn the moneychangers’ tables in the Temple on the Hill in the District of Criminals. We might risk being hung as rebels by the Empire, at the demand of the priests of Wall Street. But we must live free or die trying! Let’s rekindle the “Spirit of ’76”!
WALLY and Freedom Lost- There is a way, Please read this and begin to grasp the easily hidden Clean Hands Doctrine. Someone who has the duty to enforce the laws and the ability to pardon must be elected to make it happen.
http://jlmealer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/MEALER_Initiative_Jan_2014_2nd_Ed_AzGov1.pdf
The Vote is fixed, stop passing along false info…like our vote counts. Even the President is selected by a few chosen ones in the electoral college. Wake up people..you do not matter to them unless you stop working for them, thats all they care about is the value of your labor.
” Its not who votes that counts, its who counts the votes. “
Sorry folks, but this country can’t be saved at the ballot box. The elections are rigged. There is only one way to take this country back, and you all know what i’m talking about. When someone finally steps forward to lead the real revolution, let me know.
We shall see.
“My sentiments exactly. I am glad I voted Diane Sare for Governor of NJ in 2013.”
Thank you for doing so. 🙂 I’m in Pennsylvania, and will likely vote for Ken Krawchuk, but I will evaluate the other non-duopoly candidates before making a firm decision.
http://www.facebook.com/libertarians
Jed Ziggler, “I say vote third party or stay home, period. If enough of us do it, and keep doing it, the duopoly loses its power over us and we can get back to a governance that works for its citizens, not for the machine.”
My sentiments exactly. I am glad I voted Diane Sare for Governor of NJ in 2013.
Exactly.
I’m hoping the AZLP has a good slate of candidates again. Looking forward to casting a vote for Barry Hess again should he decide to run for governor again.
I say vote third party or stay home, period. If enough of us do it, and keep doing it, the duopoly loses its power over us and we can get back to a governance that works for its citizens, not for the machine.
IMO, right message, wrong party.
If Arizona constitutionalists want a revolution, then they can carry it out through the AZ affiliate of the National Independent American Party: the Americans Elect of Arizona, since they’re on the ballot and the CP isn’t.
Arizona Constitution Party has the opportunity to do it right. They know I was there in the beginning of the official Constitution Party (Arizona Tax Party IE, US Tax Party).
I am the only gubernatorial candidate in the race with both a 100% Constitutional outline and the means to have investors and tax maneuvers pay for reinvigorating Arizona.
Plus, I kill the I-11 Corridor and turn it into a State Highway, dead-ending it before it reaches anywhere near the Hoover Dam bypass).
THIS IS THE LAST OPPORTUNITY WE AMERICANS HAVE to control the globalist NAFTA inroads and their human trafficking route that would otherwise (without me as Arizona Governor) be protected internationally if I am not elected.
Think about that for a moment folks.
The rest of the states can follow my lead.
http://jlmealer.com
FUCK. YES.