Loggiaonfire: Gary Johnson Waggled his Tongue at Aleppo, Nobody Was Injured

johnsonast-2Original article can be found here.

The passing of the first “debate” of candidates – well, some of them – running for the office of President of the United States signals the beginning of the end for this election cycle. And while the leaves have not yet started browning over, make no mistake: November shall be upon us very soon. Barring some catastrophic event, the American People will find ourselves being lead by scum of one variety or another for four more years. A year that should have been The Year of the People instead appears destined to become yet another rung on the ladder upon which we descend into wretchedness.

As expected, at least by some of us, the quest embarked upon by the Libertarian Party to gain “respectability” and win a seat at the table by running “adult” candidates with a “sane” message enjoys very little traction. Indeed, also as expected, the big boys have already deployed countermeasures to ensure the effort comes to naught. These are sad days for the ideals of Freedom and Peace that many people, despite what you may hear on the news, still hold dear.

Matters are made worse for the Libertarian candidate, Gov. Gary Johnson, by the fact that as he attempts to wage war on Goliath, he does not enjoy the full support of his party. The reasons for this are numerous and complicated, and the reaction to his candidacy outside of his core base has ranged from reluctant support for the good of the party all the way to active, vitriolic opposition. In between are many who are mostly waiting it out so they can rebuild on the ruins. And so Johnson can get back to what he loves best.

One pastime shared by the mainstream media, opposition candidates and those that do not support the Johnson candidacy has been the gleeful roasting of Johnson for the abundant gaffes that he serves up. This too was predictable, and some people warned that he was not the man to get the job done. Johnson’s supporters by and large act like this treatment is unfair, but the truth is evident by the savagery inflicted on the mainstream candidates by each other. This is politics, in all its ugliness, and one should have a rather thick skin if they endeavor to participate.

One of these Johnson gaffes was delivered as half a joke – yet another from Johnson that missed home. When asked about global warming, Johnson stated that it mattered little since the Earth was destined to plunge into the sun. He went on to explain that the future of mankind was space exploration, and the colonization of other planets.

Depending on who you ask, Johnson’s position is characterized as either a dodge on the question of global warming or as more fantastic evidence that the man consumes too much dope. The media has had a field day as usual, and many disgruntled Libertarians have joined right in. The rest of us sighed with amazement and said: finally here is some wisdom. Too bad he doesn’t always seem to mean it.

dope

Implicit within the simple scenario described by Johnson is the roots of a much larger issue. For while some “environmentalists” definitely give the impression that they do not care for human beings very much, most reasonable discussions on the health of the planet begin with the assumption that humanity is worth preserving if we can do it. That, whether due to cosmic accident or intelligent design, something special exists in the human species. Most people, including opponents of global warming theory, do seem to believe this, so the question becomes: how do we make it happen?

While we are assured that the probable destiny of Earth being consumed by the Sun is roughly 7.5 billion years off, it is a mistake to stop the discussion by dismissing this outcome as too far off to worry about now. For much can and will happen before then. For example, according to scientists there won’t be any human beings around to lament the Earth plunging into the sun because 4 billion years from now other conditions are guaranteed to make us extinct. A little closer…

chicxulub-impact-2Continuing on backwards, passing by all manner of planetary-wide extinction-level events that we are told could occur at any moment including meteor collision, super-viruses or nuclear holocaust, we can see changes taking place today that will radically alter our relationship with this planet, indeed our very way of life. And they have nothing to do with global warming.

Medical science and futurists have been in the news a lot lately. Medical and technological advances have achieved a rapid enough pace to cause respected futurist and Google engineer Ray Kurzweil to suggest that by 2030 we will have achieved the ability to be largely immortal. The implications for population statistics are staggering, so much so that while the science may come to exist, it will likely be only for the super rich, or be outlawed entirely. Because where do we put all of the people?

Global warming, whether or not it is happening, is – like most of “the issues” under debate – a red herring. It puts the focus on saving a planet that, when all things are considered, is not an adequate answer for sustained humanity in the future, perhaps even the immediate future. If we are to endure, it must be by expanding our reach beyond this planet. Cultivating redundancy, and seeding as much of the universe with humanity as possible. In fact, humanity will not be safe until we can confidently kick this planet behind us like a wasted tin can.

Which isn’t to say that is what we should do. It is reasonable to expect that if we begin offloading portions of our population elsewhere, we would be able to sustain the ecosystem here without sacrificing our preferred lifestyles. Because ultimately, that is what proponents of global-warming response really want. 0The end game of the type of demands they make is for us all to become wretched dirt farmers once again. By all means live like that if you want to, but don’t try to force it on the rest of us. Not while our impending doom as a species will still be staring us in the face as we fatuously tend our assigned carbon-neutral plots.

Gov. Gary Johnson will assuredly not be our next president. But life will go on, and hopefully we can avoid destroying ourselves or being destroyed before the next presidential election comes around. We really only have only one hope at this point – removing all obstacles to meaningful space travel, including obstacles placed in the way of profitability for private individuals and organizations that wish to pursue it. Because until the problems of scarcity are fixed and as long as corruption rules government, they’re the only ones that can get us where we need to be.

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About Caryn Ann Harlos

Caryn Ann Harlos is a paralegal residing in Castle Rock, Colorado and presently serving as the Region 1 Representative on the Libertarian National Committee and is a candidate for LNC Secretary at the 2018 Libertarian Party Convention. Articles posted should NOT be considered the opinions of the LNC nor always those of Caryn Ann Harlos personally. Caryn Ann's goal is to provide information on items of interest and (sometimes) controversy about the Libertarian Party and minor parties in general not to necessarily endorse the contents.

149 thoughts on “Loggiaonfire: Gary Johnson Waggled his Tongue at Aleppo, Nobody Was Injured

  1. Andy

    Here’s another video of Gary Johnson and Bill Weld making asses of themselves on national television.

    Gary Johnson struggles to name his favorite foreign leader

  2. Darcy G Richardson

    You’re right, Andy. The LP struggled for forty-five years to get this kind of opportunity on the national stage, only to see it squandered by a woefully ill-prepared and clueless Republican who was never ready for prime time.

    This morning’s headlines say it all. Anybody who ever took the former New Mexico governor seriously should be embarrassed.

    Johnson’s inexcusably terrible performance last night, moreover, did more damage to the cause of third-party politics in this country than one can imagine.

  3. Thane Eichenauer

    I saw the segment in question. Johnson apparently eventually selected previous President of Mexico Vincente Fox. To me this is another Aleppo-style question. Why should the US President or any elected official have a favorite foreign leader? I think Weld suggested Angela Merkel. Talk about a bad answer.

    Personally I would choose the current President of Switzerland. What is the name of that President? Gotcha!

  4. Darcy G Richardson

    “To me this is another Aleppo-style question.”

    I’m sure it is. On the other hand, I don’t think Jill Stein or, say, Rocky De La Fuente — the latter of whom probably knows Vincente Fox personally — would have had any difficulty answering what you described as a “gotcha” question.

    It’s amazing, simply amazing, the lengths to which some Libertarians will go in defending their clueless candidate.

    Enjoy the rest of your downhill ride…

  5. Andy

    “Darcy G Richardson
    September 29, 2016 at 02:38
    You’re right, Andy. The LP struggled for forty-five years to get this kind of opportunity on the national stage, only to see it squandered by a woefully ill-prepared and clueless Republican who was never ready for prime time.

    This morning’s headlines say it all. Anybody who ever took the former New Mexico governor seriously should be embarrassed.

    Johnson’s inexcusably terrible performance last night, moreover, did more damage to the cause of third-party politics in this country than one can imagine.”

    You know what’s really sad about this is that several Libertarian Party members, some of whom are regular posters here, such as myself, Tom Knapp, George Phillies, and langa, to name just a few, WARNED about all of the problems with Gary Johnson months before the Libertarian National Convention, yet a majority of delegates in Orlando nominated him, and his establishment shill running mate, anyway.

    I TOLD YA SO, Johnson and Weld delegates.

  6. Andy

    “Thane Eichenauer
    September 29, 2016 at 02:51
    I saw the segment in question. Johnson apparently eventually selected previous President of Mexico Vincente Fox. To me this is another Aleppo-style question. Why should the US President or any elected official have a favorite foreign leader?”

    He could have said that he did not have one. This would have been a better answer than the one he gave.

    ” I think Weld suggested Angela Merkel. Talk about a bad answer.”

    Angele Merkel is absolutely terrible. It is rather telling that Weld admires her.

    “Personally I would choose the current President of Switzerland. What is the name of that President? Gotcha!”

    Candidates for President need to do their homework on the issues and current events. I think that I am more informed than most people, but if I were running for office I’d make a point of becoming even more informed on issues and I’d stay even more up to date on current events, and I’d have my campaign staff help prep me on issues and current events and on developing good answers to questions during the course of the campaign.

    I don’t expect anyone to know everything or to be “on” at every moment, but compare Johnson’s performances in interviews and debates to say Harry Browne or Michael Badnarik or Ron Paul, as they were much better than Johnson.

  7. Thane Eichenauer

    DGR> “On the other hand, I don’t think Jill Stein or, say, Rocky De La Fuente — the latter of whom probably knows Vincente Fox personally — would have had any difficulty answering what you described as a “gotcha” question.”

    If the question is relevant then I would agree with your comment. I don’t agree that the question is relevant. I don’t care that Johnson didn’t have a ready answer. I wouldn’t be impressed by a snappy but irrelevant answer provided by Stein or De La Fuente as I am interested in policy answers not answers to lightning quizzes.

    I asked the IPR comment audience “Why should the US President or any elected official have a favorite foreign leader?” – You apparently had no answer to that lightning question. That is the relevant question for this sub-thread not what political candidate maybe/probably had the right answer to an irrelevant question.

    The real world of politics isn’t the TV game Jeopardy.

  8. Andy

    Thane Eichenauer said: “If the question is relevant then I would agree with your comment. I don’t agree that the question is relevant. I don’t care that Johnson didn’t have a ready answer.”

    You should be concerned that he sat there stammering like a dumb ass, and then referred to Vincente Fox (why him?).

    Part of being a candidate it to be able to think quickly and not come off looking like a fool. I understand that everyone makes mistakes, but this is just another thing to add to the list of reasons why Gary Johnson should have never been nominated as a candidate for the Libertarian Party, and the same goes for Bill Weld.

  9. Thane Eichenauer

    Andy> “I think that I am more informed than most people, but if I were running for office I’d make a point of becoming even more informed on issues and I’d stay even more up to date on current events,”

    I wouldn’t disagree with your statement. I would say that I’d rather have a candidate that had good policy positions rather than one that could answer Aleppo/favorite foreign leader type trivia (in the larger scheme of things). I don’t cheer lead for Johnson but I’m not going to give him demerits for not being a political Jeopardy master contestant. I will happily award demerits to Johnson/Weld when they offer awful political positions.

    The podcast Lions of Liberty has been running an ongoing report card (6 episodes) on Gary Johnson/(BANG!)/William Weld for a couple of weeks. So far he has 35 JohnsONs and 42 JOhnsOFFs. I rather agree with the score. Johnson has some qualities I like and quite a few I do not.

    http://lionsofliberty.com/gary

  10. Thane Eichenauer

    Andy> You should be concerned that he sat there stammering like a dumb ass, and then referred to Vincente Fox (why him?).

    Good question. The format offered Johnson doesn’t care to know the answer. Vincente Fox is a very slightly lesser awful answer. Again, few are really interested in “why?”. Certainly not MSNBC. I await being proved wrong by MSNBC. I may be waiting a long time.

  11. Darcy G Richardson

    “You know what’s really sad about this is that several Libertarian Party members, some of whom are regular posters here, such as myself, Tom Knapp, George Phillies, and langa, to name just a few, WARNED about all of the problems with Gary Johnson months before the Libertarian National Convention, yet a majority of delegates in Orlando nominated him, and his establishment shill running mate, anyway.” — Andy

    Exactly, but it’s their problem now — and a particularly embarrassing one at that. Defending gaffe-prone and scatterbrained Gary and his Establishment sidekick, assuming Weld bothers to stick around, won’t be easy as the campaign heads into the homestretch.

  12. Darcy G Richardson

    Instead of worrying about trying to qualify for the second or third nationally-televised debates, Johnson and Weld and their pipe dreaming, highly-compensated consultants would be well-advised to start looking in the rearview mirror and begin paying attention to the green vehicle slowly but surely approaching them in the left passing lane.

    Just saying…

  13. Darcy G Richardson

    “The real world of politics isn’t the TV game Jeopardy.”

    Agreed, but if one is running for president, he or she should be able to at least rattle off the names of at least a few Prime Ministers or heads of state that they could work with. Chris Matthews gave him several opportunities, but Gary Johnson clearly couldn’t name one.

  14. robert capozzi

    dgr: Anybody who ever took the former New Mexico governor seriously should be embarrassed.

    me: Sorry, but your counsel doesn’t apply to me. Compared with Clinton and Trump, I find GJ far less embarrassing.

    I cannot name a favorite foreign leader, either, though Trudeau has nice hair! 😉 It is, after all, a world filled with statist pols.

  15. Anthony Dlugos

    Anyone who thinks the Governor’s non-answer on a dopey question like “Who’s your favorite world leader” is a) something relevant to the job, b) gonna matter to the voters as something relevant to the job, are as dumb as people who thought the Aleppo answer was a problem.

    This non-answer will not matter, just as I said the non-answer to the Aleppo question won’t matter. Period.

    And now we get “I told you so’s” from people who would have recommended nominating the catastrophically unqualified, drugged-addled murder suspects, and asshats. People the only thing we know about is that they would not have had a non-answer to a question like this only because they would have gotten nowhere near a Town Hall at any network.

    Andy, the Libertarian Party delegates en masse are not ever going to be looking to you for advice about whom to nominate. Your advice would run the party into the ground.

  16. Anthony Dlugos

    Darcy,

    Are you implying Stein is gonna pass Johnson in the polls?

    I’ll take that bet. Name your stakes.

  17. Tony From Long Island

    I think this was the moment when I realized I can’t vote for Gov. Johnson. I let Aleppo go. The tongue thing . . . eh . . . but he couldn’t name ONE current or former world leader he admired? Any casual reader of the news could have just said “Shimon Peres was very courageous in starting a peace process with the Palestinians and the world has just lost someone who tried to bring peace to all . . . ” or something similar. I’m sure all of you purists and anarchists will come up with some really bad stuff about Peres – that he sacrificed children to Allah or something . . . but it would have been a way to answer the question and move on.

    He was doing quite well until then. . . . I just can’t do it anymore.

    But he just stammered and couldn’t remember Vincente Fox;’s name . . . the same guy who was president of Mexico while he was Governor of New Mexico.

    I’m disappointed because I now really don’t have anyone to vote for in New York

  18. Anthony Dlugos

    Well, given the real problems that beset thus country, I can’t say that makes a whole lotta sense, but you’re entitled your opinion.

  19. Tony From West Islip

    I am someone who keeps telling Trump supporters to stop apologizing and defending him when he is wrong. It would hypocritical of me to make more excuses as to why Gov. Johnson too often shows a basic grasp of the world around us. Was it a “gotcha” question? Maybe, but it was one that was easily answered.

    To “Thane” who asked why a US President should have a favorite foreign leader. Well, we don’t live in a bubble. Like it or not, the world often looks to the US for leadership. You can still be a non-interventionalist (like I am) and strive for good relations between all nations. Are you saying that the US should dislike EVERY foreign leader? There are no GOOD ones? If they were all bad, the world would truly be a dangerous and sad place. The world NEEDS good leaders.

    As I often say “we are all in this together,” but Thomas Jefferson said it better ” “Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations…entangling alliances with none”

    Maybe my frustration will pass, but I was really really really disappointed last night. Other than that simple question, the forum went quite well.

  20. Tony From Long Island

    I often tell Trump supporters to stop apologizing and defending him. I can’t be a hypocrite and continue to apologize for Gov. Johnson. Too often he just seems to lack basic knowledge of the world around us.

    To “THANE” who asked why a U.S. President needs to have a favorite foreign leader, we don’t live in a bubble. Like it or not, the world often look to the U.S. for leadership. We should WANT there to be great leaders around the world. If every world leader was terrible, the world would be dangerous and sad place.

    I often say “we are all in this together” but Thomas Jefferson said it better: “Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations…entangling alliances with none”

    Was it a “gotcha” question? Maybe – but it was easily answerable.

    I was just very very disappointed because the forum had been going quite well until then.

    I APOLOGIZE IF THIS IS A DOUBLE POST – my browser doesn’t seem to show the one I just made similar to this one.

  21. ATBAFT

    Here’s an interesting observation on who the next LP presidential candidate should be posted yesterday on Reason’s Hit and Run:

    creech|9.28.16 @ 9:44PM|#

    Well, if we want no kvetching, then it has to be the guy who studied under Rothbard at Brooklyn Poly, then took his doctorate at Univ. of Chicago under Milton Friedman, who then built a $1 billion dollar tech giant from the ground up while eschewing patents and copyrights, wrote at least two prize winning books on libertarian ideology, then ran successfully as a Libertarian and won two terms as governor of a large state, then elected to the U.S. Senate and heads the important Foreign Affairs Committee. Also a sharp dresser with a hot Libertarian wife and has made the cover of People, Time, and Forbes. Oh, and gets invited to all the best cocktail parties. You all know exactly who I mean.

  22. Anthony Dlugos

    Here’s an endorsement this morning from the Detroit News. Note what these folks seem to find as important in a president, rather than having an answer for a question more befitting of a Playboy centerfold:

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/editorials/2016/09/28/endorse-johnson-president/91254412/

    But this is an endorsement of conscience, reflecting our confidence that Johnson would be a competent and capable president and an honorable one.

    Johnson has excelled at public service. In his eight years as the Republican governor of New Mexico, he cut taxes while balancing the budget, and left the state in better fiscal shape than when he arrived. He also was a champion of school choice, and the state under his guidance made great strides in improving education.

  23. Bondurant

    If I were running for office I couldn’t answer the question about a foreign leader I admire, I couldn’t. Because I don’t know of any that I actually like. Considering, though, that Johnson has waxed poetic about Hillary in the past he could have easily just tossed a name oui.

    To credit Johnson he does not have the luxury of assistants, handlers and advisors. Most politicians couldn’t find Aleppo on a map. I guarantee even Obama and Hillary wouldn’t know shit about Aleppo if it weren’t for a circle of people around them feeding them details.

    But Johnson’s small band could likely do a bit better. Johnson isn’t ready for prime time when it comes to speaking.

    I have a degree of sympathy as I believe he’s being held to a different standard by the media but I still can’t vote for the guy. He hasn’t earned my vote by bringing Weld into the fold.

  24. George Dance

    Darcy: “Instead of worrying about trying to qualify for the second or third nationally-televised debates, Johnson and Weld and their pipe dreaming, highly-compensated consultants would be well-advised to start looking in the rearview mirror and begin paying attention to the green vehicle slowly but surely approaching them in the left passing lane.”

    If Darcy’s saying that J&W should stop talking about the debates, and start talking about the Greeens – giving Clinton & Trump a pass to turn their guns on Jill Stein – well, that’s just silly. All it would do is give Stein more publicity.

    On the other hand, if he thinks that the Greens really are “slowly but surely” catching up on the Libertarian percentage, then he’s just wrong; as he’d have seen for himself if he’d bothered to look. The very polls Darcy quoted this week to show Johnson’s vote collapsing, for instance – Quinnipiac and WaPo – have Stein at 2% and 1%, respectively.

    Considering how third parties historically lose half their support in the polling booth itself, it looks like Stein will be finishing the year as an asterisk.

  25. Tony From Long Island

    Bringing in Weld was what was KEEPING my vote.

    Bondurant . . . the question was a FOREIGN leader, so the jab at Hillary really made no sense.

    Saying That or President wouldn’t “know shit:” about Aleppo is really baseless. You can dislike the man, but c’mon. You can say a lot of negative things about Hillary Clinton, but her knowledge of world affairs is not one. So, try a logical and well-thought-out post.

    Gov. Johnson may not have the same number of advisors ads Generalissimo Trump and Hillary, but he should have had an answer for that question. It was not a hard one. He had thousands of years to work with.

    Really there’s not ONE foreign leader you admire . . .EVER? Not one? Give me a break.

    The regulars on this board seem to be somewhat well educated and well informed. So, to say there’s not ONE SINGLE foreign leader you can admire EVEN SLIGHTLY is just ridiculous.

  26. Bondurant

    I stand by my comments.

    Johnson gushed over Hillary. He could have easily just picked a random foreign leader and done the same.

    Politicians are public actors. Most don’t anything about what they speak. They have advisors and handlers for a reason. If Obama and Hillary didn’t have these luxuries, I doubt they could answer most questions about foreign policy or leader. This isn’t exclusive to Democrats. The GOP is the same way.

    Johnson actually rebounded after the Aleppo gaffe and discussed the real problem, that of our foreign policy, but the media chose to ignore that part. Ironically he gave the only principled and correct answer. Hillary and Trump just want to carry the water of the duopoly and blow more shit up.

    Why should I admire any foreign leaders? They’re just like ours and not worthy of much respect. Can I dig deep and find something that I agree with someone on? Sure? But one or two issues isn’t deserving of respect. At the end of the day all politicians around the world support theft and war.

  27. George Dance

    robert carpozzi: “I cannot name a favorite foreign leader, either, though Trudeau has nice hair!”

    Well, hair’s important; just ask Nancy Pelosi. According to her, his hair is the reason people are supporting Johnson, and the reason they shouldn’t:

    “Pelosi maintained that the polls showing a close race between Clinton and Trump are due to some young voters gravitating toward Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson, but suggested they would shift when they learn about his positions.
    “‘Do you think most people who have said they’re going to be for the Libertarian because they like his hairstyle, or whatever it is, are going to stick with that?’ she said.
    “Poking fun at both Johnson and Trump’s hair, the California Democrat asked: ‘Can you imagine if a woman had the hairstyle of either one of those presidential candidate — whatever his name is, Trump and the other one? Is that for real?'”

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/27/politics/nancy-pelosi-donald-trump-hair/

  28. George Phillies

    The safe answer is “I’m sorry, how many foreign leaders do you want to get hurt feelings? But who can be offended if I name Elizabeth, the second of her name, Queen of England.”

    And with respect to ‘I told you see’, II expect I will be saying that regularly.

  29. Tony from Long Island

    Bondurant, your comments here really surprise me. Super cynical. Over cynical to the point of hyperbole.

    Speaking generally about ALL politicians is where you lose your credibility. It is not true that EVERY SINGLE politician is a clueless oaf who would be nothing without “handlers.” Is that true for some? Sure. Every single one? C’mon.

    You said: ” . . . all politicians around the world support theft and war. . . ”

    Again, such a broad based statement that it can’t possibly hold up. They ALL support war? Every single one? Are you also referring to that “taxation is theft” kool-ade nonsense that I used to drink in?
    George H.W. Bush was head of the CIA. I’m sure he had just a tad bit of knowledge about world events. Hillary Clinton was secretary of state for 4 years.

    Sure, there are politicians like Rep. Louis Gohmert who just stuns us daily with the stupid things he says, but lumping every politician into one pot really makes your argument lack logic.

  30. George Dance

    Tony from LI: “The regulars on this board seem to be somewhat well educated and well informed. So, to say there’s not ONE SINGLE foreign leader you can admire EVEN SLIGHTLY is just ridiculous.”

    Well, I tried a top-of-the-head, and could name less than 10: Trudeau, Merkel, Netanyahu, Kim, Putin, Cameron. (I also thought “Sarkozy” for France, but I’m sure that’s wrong; and “Mo” for India, but I couldn’t remember his full name.) No one on that list I can admire.

    If I can’t come up with 10, how many would the average American voter come up with?

    Too, unlike the Aleppo ambush, the media can’t give their audience the information in the course of bashing Johnson for not having it.

    So will it hurt him? Not with his committed supporters; and, I suspect not with the voters who don’t pay attention to foreign affairs.

    The silver lining is that these gaffes may be getting him onto TV network news, where (except for 11 seconds on NBC) he’s been blacked out. If so, they may even turn out to be a plus.

  31. George Dance

    George Phillies: “The safe answer is “I’m sorry, how many foreign leaders do you want to get hurt feelings? But who can be offended if I name Elizabeth, the second of her name, Queen of England.”

    What a great answer: A figurehead with little actual power, and who doesn’t use the power (on paper) that she has. Exactly what a Libertarian would like to see in a president.

    Hope you’re filing it away for 2020.

  32. Tony From Long Island

    George Dance: the question was current OR FORMER!!!!!!!! I know you can name more than 10 current or FORMER foreign leaders. Even Bad ones

  33. Bondurant

    Tony.

    Brush up on your reading comprehension and quoting skills. I did not say “EVERY SINGLE” politicians is clueless. I said “most”. Clearly so. Your affinity for all caps angry typing is cute, though.

    Taxation is theft. It’s property seized by threat of violence. You’re a Democrat so I don’t expect you to grasp this concept.

  34. Trent Hill

    What’s hilarious is that Andy and people like him think this is reason to say “TOLD YOU SO!” to Johnson and Weld supporters….

    …on the morning that the Detroit News endorses Johnson. The 4th or 5th major newspaper to endorse him. He also has endorsement from non-Libertarian Party elected officials across the country, has had more TV time than any LP candidate in recent history, and is polling 7-24%, depending upon the state.

    Yeah. You told us.

  35. Jill Pyeatt

    This hideous campaign continues to move excruciatingly slowly. I SOOO want it to be over. At least then we’ll be sure which joker will put the nails in the coffin of the USA.

  36. Andy

    Yeah, non-libertarians are endorsing Johnson/Weld BECAUSE JOHNSON/WELD ARE LINOS, AS IN THEY ARE LIBERTARIANS IN NAME ONLY.

    Why should I be impressed if Johnson/Weld get endorsed by corrupt politicians and corrupt mainstream media/press puppets? Don’t you know that big government has been in bed with big media for a long time in this country?

    Weld is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, and he is a long time crony of the Bush and Clinton families, and Mitt Romney. He’s like a “made guy” in the Mafia.

  37. Tony From Long Island

    Yeah Bondo, I stopped drinking the kool-ade about 8 years ago. It’s when I realized that “shit costs money.”

    I also realized that not everyone has the same means, intelligence or luck.

    I also realized that “charities will help the poor” is a bunch of crap.

    I realized that “promote the general welfare” are among the most important words in the Constitution.

    Taxation is everyone chipping in to help others. If you don’t like helping others then you need to look in the mirror. We are all in this together.

    Now, can there be a long discussion about how much is necessary to “promote the general welfare.” You and I agree that the federal budget can be cut substantially immediately. You and I agree that the defense budget should be chopped in pieces immediately. You and I could probably agree that immigration should be encouraged and made much easier.

    There’s probably more that you and I agree on. So, despite the differences in principle, there are likely many details we agree on.

    Yeah, I probably responded too quickly regarding “most” and “every single,” but thanks for calling me cute. Doesn’t happen often . . . Oh, that was must my typing skills? oh well.

    However, once I work on my reading comprehension, take a few to work on your grammar. You said ” . . . . Most don’t anything about what they speak . . . . ” Most don’t WHAT? Care? Know? Think? Understand?

    🙂

    Oh yeah . . . I just got a YOUGOV.com poll e-mail and still said I am voting for Gov. Johnson, but that is a really tenuous feeling today.

  38. Anthony Dlugos

    Trent,

    We’re all friends here in my book despite the confrontational nature of the threads, but let’s bear in mind I’m pretty sure Andy said he’s gonna be supporting Kokesh for President in 2020.

    I commend him for his purity to message, but he wants to start a revolution. Voters aren’t interested.

  39. Tony From Long Island

    I consider us all friends. . . . . except Andy . . .he’s an embarrassment to humanity. I have absolutely no respect for him in the slightest.

    Despite my back and forth with Bondurant today, I very much enjoy coming on here every day at work and putting in my two cents. It’s actually usually one of my favorite things 🙂 . . . . usually

  40. Joseph Buchman

    If Gary Johnson had been receiving the national security briefings that the two old party candidates get, he would have heard of Aleppo in those briefings, and have been hearing the names of any number of world leaders. Another way the game is played to favor the OLD party candidates.

    But what I wish he had said, “The Dalai Lama because he advocates and works for social change through nonviolence, just like every Libertarian. (I mean the man has been to the top of Everest. You go right by Dharamsala and Tibet to get there, yes?) Sigh.”

  41. George Dance

    Tony from LI: “George Dance: the question was current OR FORMER!!!!!!!!”

    No, the question was: “Who’s your favorite foreign leader? Anybody?”

    I wouldn’t have thought ‘former leader’ from that. I notice Weld did, replying “Shimon Peres.” I suppose Johnson should have picked up on that cue, but it’s not obvious from the question.

    Thinking about former leaders, though, gives me TMI: I still can’t come up with a favorite in 10 seconds or less (which is a long time on network TV).

  42. Be Rational

    Tony From Long Island
    September 29, 2016

    “Gov. Johnson may not have the same number of advisors ads Generalissimo Trump and Hillary, but he should have had an answer for that question. It was not a hard one. He had thousands of years to work with.”

    ” If every world leader was terrible, the world would be dangerous and sad place.”

    **************
    Tony, there was a stipulation for the answer of this gotcha question: the world leader had to be living, not dead, so he had far fewer years and people to work with.

    Still, he IS running for President. And at least since his Aleppo gaff, Gary should have taken the initiative to read a couple of good, daily newspapers every day … Barring that, his campaign should have insisted that Gary read a couple of newspapers each day – NY Times, Wall Street Journal – etc.

    That’s right… Hello Gary Johnson, for God’s sake, read a damn newspaper … Every damn day … You are running for President.

    … Hello to the incompetent campaign staff and manager … You know nothing about advertising, we got that, but did you not realize that a candidate for POTUS has to know something about current events?

    Please hand Gary a copy of the NY Times and WSJ each morning with his coffee.

    ********
    Now these days I’m very busy working about 80 hours per week, so I’m not up on my current world leaders, but there are none that I admire, so I would spin the answer. Actually, Capozzi’s spin could have worked well …

    “There’s no one that I admire, but I do like Trudeau’s hair. … Seriously though …

    … the world IS a dangerous place. There are no truly admirable world leaders. We’ve got Putin, who’s trying to restore the old Soviet Empire and rebuild the Soviet Union, invading the Ukraine and intervening in Syria. We’ve got ISIS. There’s Jongeun Kim, the third in a row and possibly the most dangerous Kim ruling over a dangerous, nuclear armed North Korea. The recent impeachment of the President of Brazil; the failing fascist-socialist leader of Venezuala is ripping that nation to shreds, with bankruptcy, kidnappings, violence, starvation, electricity rationing – they even have to import oil into the country with the world’s biggest oil reserves.

    Sorry, but the world is in trouble. The foreign policy of Clinton and Obama has failed. The foreign policy of Bush was no better. And Trump is a dangerous wild card that threatens our security here at home.

    There is just no one on the world stage today that springs to mind as someone to admire or emulate. That’s why I’m running for President. We need a new foreign policy … one based on non-intervention, peace and free trade; respect for all nations; a strong national defense, but ending our failed attempt to police the world. ”

    ****
    Just off the top of my head, without preparation, that’s my answer.

  43. robert capozzi

    AD, true, almost no one wants a revolution…now. Angrytarians, however, believe that when the globalist NWO starts with the FEMA camps, chip implants, and the like, the cadre will be a vanguard leading the rest of us into anarcho-paradise.

  44. Tony From Long Island

    Matthews added the caveat of former after the initial question.

    Agree with much of what you just said, Senor Rational

  45. Be Rational

    True. Matthews also added the caveat of “living” after Weld chimed in with the late Shimon Peresz of Israel.

  46. Anthony Dlugos

    Mr. Capozzi,

    There’s definitely a Lenninst “Vanguard Party” aspect to the Angrytarian/Purist thought process. What is suggesting a guy like Kokesh for president other than an argument that this person without executive experience at all nonetheless has a political consciousness that’s gonna lead the country to utopia, deposing the NWO/CFR ruling class in the process.

    To wit:

    “Functionally, the Leninist vanguard party was to provide the working class with the political consciousness (education and organisation) and revolutionary leadership necessary to depose capitalism in Imperial Russia.”

  47. Anthony Dlugos

    What’s funny is the “missing the forest for the trees” aspect of the Losertarian histrionics regarding Johnson’s non-answer last night.

    The most remarkable aspect of this event was, as Mr. Sarwark pointed out today, the obvious coordinated response attack on Johnson by the hysterical Left in this country, worried as they are about our candidate cutting into Hillary’s numbers.

    The idea that one of the duopoly party candidates has to spend time and effort on our candidate, and has to do it with alacrity is plain and simple uncharted territory in Libertarian party presidential history.

  48. Be Rational

    Sad to say it, but he looks like he’s been drinking or could be he’s terribly sleep deprived.

  49. Tony From Long Island

    I read Newsday every morning before work. Then check selected articles that interest me online at work.

  50. robert capozzi

    Tony, I saw a Newsday recently. Compared with what it was like in the 70s, it looks like the Pennysaver…thin!

  51. George Dance

    Anthony Dlugos: “Here’s an endorsement this morning from the Detroit News. Note what these folks seem to find as important in a president, rather than having an answer for a question more befitting of a Playboy centerfold:

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/editorials/2016/09/28/endorse-johnson-president/91254412/

    Thanks, Anthony. It’s the lead story on my blog this morning. That makes 4 newspaper endorsements (or 5, counting the Vermont weekly).

  52. Be Rational

    Reading quality newspapers, such as the NYT and WSJ in combination, will give you a much better picture of the world than relying on the newsfeeds on the Internet that are controlled by the cookies on your computer.

    GJ’s feed will be full of marijuana reports but there will be almost nothing about international news.

    Get the man a copy of the NYT and WSJ each morning.

  53. Tony From Long Island

    Yes Robert, Newsday is indeed much thinner. . . I’m just glad it still exists.

    Long island just recently lost its only professional sports team to Brooklyn. Hopefully we won’t lose our only newspaper any time soon.

    Go Islanders!!!!!!!!!!!

  54. Thane Eichenauer

    Johann Schneider-Ammann, the President of the National Council of Switzerland, is my favorite foreign leader. Naturally he is as little known in relation to the amount of bombing that his country engages in.

  55. robert capozzi

    br: Reading quality newspapers, such as the NYT and WSJ in combination, will give you a much better picture of the world than relying on the newsfeeds on the Internet that are controlled by the cookies on your computer.

    me: How do you KNOW it’s a “much better picture”?

    It seems, btw, that you are a world-class campaign strategist and an expert in media. Any other skills you care to share with us? Sushi chef? Bhakti yoga instructor? 😉

  56. Be Rational

    RC, you have declared that you haven’t read a newspaper in 15 years, and you also admitted to not knowing Aleppo and not being able to name a foreign leader … You don’t understand political and advertising strategy … You question everything – not a bad trait by itself – but you have closed yourself off from reading and experts. You continue to repeatedly question knowns that have been asked and answered – again, and again, and again, and again – likea petulant child.

    Research has shown that students learn and perform better with books and printed material, paper and perncil, than with computers.

  57. Darcy G Richardson

    “We can only wonder who wrote that or if he actually read it.” — Be Rational

    Precisely. In his recent New York Times Op-Ed, most likely written by one of his overpaid consultants, Johnson boasts that he “vetoed more than 750 bills” as governor of New Mexico. But what he — or, more accurately, his ghostwriter — didn’t tell you is that he never bothered to read most of the legislation he vetoed.

    As governor — and this is very well documented — journalists and lawmakers in both parties sharply criticized Johnson’s almost casual use of his veto powers, especially since more often than not he didn’t know exactly what he was vetoing.

    “I think he needs to get some experienced people in there to read these bills,” complained State Senator Janice Paster, early in Johnson’s first term. “It’s not an activity that should be taken casually.” (Santa Fe New Mexican, March 21, 1995)

    Obviously, Johnson has never been much of a reader.

  58. robert capozzi

    BR, I named 2 leaders…Trudeau and the Dalai Lama. But my approach has nothing to do with my question about your pronouncements and apparent Renaissance-man-like range.

    But I see we can add to the list of your masteries “educational cognition expert.”

    Myself, I prefer to read what interests me, and online seems far more convenient to me. I read everything with great skepticism, but I tend to latch onto ideas that resonate and seem more serviceable to me, coming from many sources. Yes, I do like to test things down to their core premises. Truth is a kind of virtuous circle, so if hear something that seems on the true side of things, I tend to test it down to the foundation.

    You know what they say about the heat in the kitchen!!!

  59. robert capozzi

    dgr, apparently Jimmy Carter was a voracious reader. Ronald Reagan wasn’t.

    Regardless of what you think of those two’s presidencies, it’s pretty clear to me that Reagan was the more effective leader. A leader’s main job is to keep his or her eye on the big picture, and to drive staff to work the details. Getting bogged down in minutiae is leadership-draining, in my experience and is generally my impression.

    You can rest assured that GJ won’t win, and will probably go back to chillin’ and mountain climbing in a few months, so don’t you fret, now.

  60. George Dance

    Darcy Richardson: “‘I think he needs to get some experienced people in there to read these bills,’ complained State Senator Janice Paster, early in Johnson’s first term. ‘It’s not an activity that should be taken casually.’ (Santa Fe New Mexican, March 21, 1995)
    “Obviously, Johnson has never been much of a reader.”

    Apparently, in Darcy-world, if a Democrat says it, it’s not only true, but ‘obviously’ true.

  61. Darcy G Richardson

    Nice try, George, but Republican lawmakers made similar remarks and complained that Johnson never bothered to reach out to them before vetoing legislation sponsored by one of them.

  62. Darcy G Richardson

    In fact, in the very same March 21, 1995 Santa Fe New Mexican article that I cited earlier, Rep. Richard Knowles, a Republican from Roswell, was highly critical of Johnson for vetoing bipartisan legislation that he had sponsored concerning business partnerships.

    “The governor’s office,” he said, “didn’t even check with me, as a matter of courtesy, about what the bill meant. I could have given them all my material.”

  63. Darcy G Richardson

    There are dozens and dozens of similar examples if anybody had ever taken the time to actually scrutinize Johnson’s record as governor.

  64. George Dance

    Be Rational: “you have declared that you haven’t read a newspaper in 15 years, and you also admitted to not knowing Aleppo and not being able to name a foreign leader … You don’t understand political and advertising strategy … You question everything – not a bad trait by itself – but you have closed yourself off from reading and experts. You continue to repeatedly question knowns that have been asked and answered – again, and again, and again, and again – likea petulant child.”

    Oh, so *that’s* how an “expert” handles a question he can’t answer. Thanks for the demonstration.

  65. Anthony Dlugos

    “There are dozens and dozens of similar examples if anybody had ever taken the time to actually scrutinize Johnson’s record as governor.”

    As opposed to the much better libertarian records of the OTHER governors that were running for the LP nomination in Orlando.

    Hell, as opposed to the much better libertarian records of the OTHER individuals who previously held ANY elective office that were running for the LP nomination in Orlando.

  66. Andy

    Why should anyone automatically give a rat’s ass if a candidate has been elected Governor or anything else? This is politician worship, just like the shiny badge worshipers who like to lick the boots of the police.

    Mitt Romney is a former Governor of Massachusetts, and he even has experience in running for President. If Mitt Romney were to show up in the Libertarian Party in 2020 claiming that he is a Libertarian and saying that he wants to run for our presidential nomination, should Libertarian delegates at the 2020 convention give him the nomination? How about Jeb Bush?

    Are fancy titles more important than ideology?

  67. robert capozzi

    gd: Oh, so *that’s* how an “expert” handles a question he can’t answer. Thanks for the demonstration.

    me: Bingo! BR obviously knows a thing or two about advertising and s/he apparently reads what s/he believes are the “best” newspapers. While I respect that there a level of expertise there, his/her pronouncements feel like those we often hear from GOVERNMENT experts. There’s a condescending “We’ve studied the problem and WE HAVE THE ANSWER.”

    We as Ls should be the first to see and acknowledge this “expert” posturing is bullshit. We should also see the difference between a knowledge base and wisdom. For ex., Paul Krugman has a PhD in economics. His head is jammed full of economic understanding. However, in my view, his philosophical assumptions and his interpretation of the data jammed in his head are, sorry, mostly nonsense.

    Does BR defer to Krugman on economics?

    I once deferred to Rothbard in a similarly unthinking way. But then I read some Hayek, and I began to realize that deference to experts — even ones I tend to agree with — is a disservice to oneself.

    That, or I’m a “petulant child”! 😉 If so, this petulant child notes that BR’s (anonymous) approach of claiming expertise and this his/her are the One True Way doesn’t work for me. In my experience, greater minds RELISH being challenged. It helps them hone their ideas further. Lesser minds deflect when challenged. Deflecting as a tactic very often signals that the deflector recognizes the weakness of his/her argument, which is why they quickly turn to ad hominem attacks as a means to distract from the argument’s weakness.

  68. Root's Teeth Are Awesome

    I suspect Stein’s support is more hardcore and firm than is Johnson’s.

    Stein’s mostly attracting true believers. Whereas Johnson, in addition to libertarians, is also attracting squishy Democrats, Republicans, and independents.

    Most of Stein’s supporters will vote for her in November. Many of Johnson’s will “go home” to the major parties, or simply stay home.

    So it’s quite possible that Stein will get more votes than Johnson in November. 50/50, I’d say.

  69. robert capozzi

    more…

    Conventional wisdom is often incorrect. Sometimes playing along with conventional wisdom as an unnecessary battle can also make sense. And, sometimes, conventional wisdom is serviceable enough, at least for the time being.

  70. Darcy G Richardson

    Great observation by RTAA. By mid-to-late October, Stein will match, if not exceed, the discredited and widely-ridiculed Libertarian nominee in most national polls. He brought it on himself, but Johnson is now almost universally viewed as something of a joke. Even the foreign press is having fun with his constant blunders…

  71. robert capozzi

    rtaa: Whereas Johnson, in addition to libertarians, is also attracting squishy Democrats, Republicans, and independents.

    me: You say this as if it were a BAD thing. Why? Most are “squishy.” Politics is a numbers game, and the ~80% in the center are not political junkies and are really not dogmatists. They are persuadable. They need to hear sound arguments well put from credible sources.

  72. robert capozzi

    dgr, and we should be concerned with the foreign press why, exactly?

    In a sane world, GJ’s knowledge gaps should compare favorably compared with DJT’s hate and HRC’s fairly obvious corruption and truth-challenged nature.

    Remember: Ignore, laugh at, fight, win.

    We’re transitioning from laugh at to fight, as the Ds are turning up the heat on the “spoiler” argument in recent days. While “win” seems unlikely, Gandhi was onto something that has a universal feel.

    btw, yes, Reagan read more than we might have thought, but he was largely not in the weeds of minutiae like Carter. Facts are not truth, and jamming one’s head full of facts sometimes leads to analysis paralysis.

  73. robert capozzi

    iow, missing the forest for the trees. The deontological mind is highly prone to this, studying each tree while missing the big picture.

  74. Anthony Dlugos

    Darcy,

    “By mid-to-late October, Stein will match, if not exceed, the discredited and widely-ridiculed Libertarian nominee in most national polls.”

    Care to make it interesting? I’ll bet you an ice cream your wrong.

  75. Thomas Knapp

    Quoth Darcy,

    “On the other hand, I don’t think Jill Stein or, say, Rocky De La Fuente — the latter of whom probably knows Vincente Fox personally — would have had any difficulty answering what you described as a ‘gotcha’ question”

    Stein got to answer the question in her own good time and still managed to blow it.

  76. Be Rational

    BR, I named 2 leaders…Trudeau and the Dalai Lama. But my approach has nothing to do with my question about your pronouncements and apparent Renaissance-man-like range.

    But I see we can add to the list of your masteries “educational cognition expert.” – RC

    *
    Yes, I have several decades of training and experience in maximization of learning and retention. The studies have been done and computers are considered detrimental to learning and retention, although useful for research and communication.

  77. Be Rational

    Be Rational: “you have declared that you haven’t read a newspaper in 15 years, and you also admitted to not knowing Aleppo and not being able to name a foreign leader … You don’t understand political and advertising strategy … You question everything – not a bad trait by itself – but you have closed yourself off from reading and experts. You continue to repeatedly question knowns that have been asked and answered – again, and again, and again, and again – likea petulant child.”

    Oh, so *that’s* how an “expert” handles a question he can’t answer. Thanks for the demonstration. – GD

    *
    Nope. That’s how a busy individual answers a question from someone who has been repeatedly asking the same questions again and again to the point of annoyance, after the questions have been repeatedly answered.

  78. Be Rational

    Jimmy Carter suffers a bad reputation, much of it undeserved. He inherited most of the economic problems he takes the blame for, from the bad economic policies of FDR, LBJ, and Nixon along with decades of malfeasance by the Federal Reserve.

    There was a blizzard of unintended economic consequences that landed in a perfect storm on President Carter along with disruptive international events, blowback in Iran built up since the reinstatement of the Shaw in the 1950s by the CIA, and the power shift to OPEC enabled by the continuance of price controls and regulations on oil imposed by Nixon and engineered by Kissinger to shift money to oil-rich US allies to pay for their mililtary expansion.

  79. Be Rational

    “btw, yes, Reagan read more than we might have thought, but he was largely not in the weeds of minutiae like Carter. Facts are not truth, and jamming one’s head full of facts sometimes leads to analysis paralysis.” – RC

    *
    Reagan was better at delegating, essential for a US President.

  80. Chuck Moulton

    I said earlier I thought the Aleppo flub was making a mountain out of a molehill.

    This week I talked with my mother, who follows politics but is independent and often splits her ballot. She has many friends all across the spectrum — some of whom follow politics closely; others barely at all. She has no dog in this fight and neither do her friends. A large number of her friends told her they were planning to vote for Gary Johnson. Then, after the Aleppo gaff, those same friends told her they can no longer vote for Gary Johnson because he seems so clueless about world events.

    Just some anecdotal information from outside our bubble.

    Of course, I am still voting for Gary Johnson in November — for the many reasons I outlined on an earlier thread.

  81. Chuck Moulton

    I would suggest the President of Estonia: Toomas Hendrik Ilves. If former foreign leader is allowed, go for the former Prime Minister of Estonia: Mart Laar (who received the 2006 Milton Friedman Prize from the Cato Institute).

  82. Andy

    Chuck Moulton said: “Of course, I am still voting for Gary Johnson in November — for the many reasons I outlined on an earlier thread.”

    Chuck, if you are unhappy with Gary Johnson and Bill Weld, the worst thing that you can do is vote for them. Why? Because it provides ammunition to Johnson/Weld supporters to nominate more candidates like this in the future. Voting for them sends the wrong message, as it rewards them in spite of all of the many times they have campaigned against the Libertarian Party’s platform or otherwise been poor representatives for the party, as well as for all of the problems with the way that their campaign has been run.

    I assume that you will be voting in either Virginia or Pennsylvania. If so, note that in Virginia, Gary Johnson would have to get 10% of the vote to get the Libertarian Party ballot access in 2018, which I doubt is likely to happen (I’m pretty sure the vote test retention for ballot access in Virginia is only good for one election, so the party will still likely have to petition for ballot access in Virginia in 2020, even under the unlikely scenario of Johnson getting 10% or more of the vote in Virginia), and note that in Pennsylvania, there is no vote test for obtaining ballot access, so Johnson could carry Pennsylvania, and the Libertarian Party of Pennsylvania will still have to petition for ballot access in 2018 and 2020.

    I believe in principle over party, because political parties can become corrupted, or do things that are just plain stupid, both of which led to the nomination of Johnson/Weld. I do not want to reward corruption and stupidity.

  83. Andy

    “Chuck Moulton
    September 30, 2016 at 10:43
    I would suggest the President of Estonia: Toomas Hendrik Ilves. If former foreign leader is allowed, go for the former Prime Minister of Estonia: Mart Laar (who received the 2006 Milton Friedman Prize from the Cato Institute).”

    Here is a better answer (in my opinion): Vít Jedli?ka.

    Who is Vít Jedli?ka? He is the President of Liberland.

    What is Liberland? It is a new libertarian oriented nation that is on land which was unclaimed between Serbia and Croatia.

    This is from the Liberland website: https://liberland.org/en/about/

    “Free Republic of Liberland (hereinafter ‘Liberland’) is a sovereign state located between Croatia and Serbia on the west bank of the Danube river. The nearest towns are Zmajevac (Croatia) and Ba?ki Monoštor (Autonomous Province of Vojvodina, Serbia). On some maps, this area is referred to as
    Gornja Siga’.

    Liberland came into existence due to a border dispute between Croatia and Serbia. This area along the west bank of the Danube river is not claimed by Croatia, Serbia or any other country. It was therefore terra nullius, a no man’s land, until Vít Jedli?ka seized the opportunity and on 13 April 2015 formed a new state in this territory – Liberland. The boundary was defined so as not to interfere with the territory of Croatia or Serbia. Its total area of approximately 7 km² is now the third smallest sovereign state, after the Vatican and Monaco. For more information regarding the border dispute between Croatia and Serbia see an article on Wikipedia.

    The motto of Liberland is “To live and let live” because Liberland prides itself on personal and economic freedom of its people, which is guaranteed by the Constitution, which significantly limits the power of politicians so they could not interfere too much in the freedoms of the Liberland nation.”

  84. Trent Hill

    “By mid-to-late October, Stein will match, if not exceed, the discredited and widely-ridiculed Libertarian nominee in most national polls.”

    A daring prediction. We’ve already got a bet on this, but I wish I’d bet heavier.

    Meanwhile, in the past two days Gary Johnson has collected newspaper endorsements from the Detroit News and Chicago Tribune. Wow.

  85. robert capozzi

    br: That’s how a busy individual answers a question from someone who has been repeatedly asking the same questions again and again to the point of annoyance, after the questions have been repeatedly answered.

    me: Funny how memory can be selective. I asked for just a bit more detail — the next level down — on the Be Rational Strategy and you never even tried to provide it. At least that’s how I recall it. You iirc just kept repeating your targeted states and broadcast media buys in those states as optimal. Then you suggested GJ and WW lend their campaign money. I asked for details on why those states and why broadcast, and you just said, effectively, because it’s better and has been “proven.” I asked for your proof, and none was forthcoming.

    I was actually hoping you had actually done the work and that you’d share it. Instead, we all heard vague rationalizations. I was persuadable, actually, and the BRS had some surface appeal for me.

    “I’m too busy to flesh it out,” would have been a perfecly acceptable answer, but I suspect that would have been an admission that you really hadn’t done the work, you were instead brainstorming, which is a perfectly valid approach. It’s — I trust you agree — incomplete, however.

    Water most definitely under the bridge now….

  86. Andy

    The President of Liberland is actually Vit Jedlicka. A question mark popped up in place of the letter c when I cut and pasted the name above.

  87. Trent Hill

    Liberland isn’t a country anyone recognizes, Andy. It’s a whackadoodle answer on national tv. Not a good look for someone hoping to be taken seriously.

  88. Anthony Dlugos

    Trent,

    To the purist, every election is…or should be fashioned by the Libertarian candidate to be…intellectual warfare between competing ideologies. They assume everyone thinks like we think, when almost no one does.

    Thus, they convince themselves Stein will outpoll/secure more votes than, Governor Johnson because she is a purer representation of her particular ideology, and it’s only a matter of time before left-wingers, socialists hear this siren call and get drawn to her like moths to a flame.

    Of course, the reality is that almost every voter looks at the presidency more like a job interview, which means right out of the gate Stein has an extremely low ceiling due to having no relevant experience, and she makes herself even less appealing by delivering a pure message when voters are looking for the practical.

    The Doom and Gloom Caucus has been predicting, well, doom and gloom, from BEFORE the convention because they insist on the delusion that the tens of millions of voters think like we do, or are desperate to think like we do. The reality is that WE are the outliers, and the Governors are a ticket built to actually represent what the voters are looking for, NOT what we think they are looking for, or should want.

    That’s why the Libertarian polling numbers are holding. Don’t let anyone tell you differently. Had we nominated anyone else, even with Trump and Clinton as the candidates, we’d be at less than 5% right now, with NO legit endorsements, NO media attention, and thus on the EXACT trajectory that they predicted for Johnson Weld…to the netherworld of less than 1%.

    Of course, at that point, all blame will be on the voters for not accepting the purity of our message, followed by a series of “F you” articles to the voters too stoopid to know how smart we are.

  89. Thomas L. Knapp

    “To the purist, every election is…or should be fashioned by the Libertarian candidate to be…intellectual warfare between competing ideologies. They assume everyone thinks like we think, when almost no one does.”

    On the contrary.

    The “purist” assumption is that everyone DOESN’T think like we think, and that in order to accomplish our purpose — which is to implement our Statement of Principles and platform — we must first GET them thinking like we do.

    That’s also the pragmatic assumption, IF the party’s purpose is to actually implement its Statement of Principles and platform.

    If the party’s purpose is to masturbate in public on the utopian premise that if we just look enough like the other guys we might be able to fool the electorate, on the other hand, then the pragmatic assumption would look something like Johnson/Weld.

  90. Anthony Dlugos

    “…we must first GET them thinking like we do.”

    Oh, is that all? lol.

    Not me. I just want their vote for now. Don’t need to explain the mechanics of the internal combustion engine, just gotta get ’em to say yes to this jalopi I’m trying to sell them. May not be a Maserati, but it’ll get ’em where they need to go.

  91. robert capozzi

    BR, I thought you were supporting GJ? Have you retracted your support?

    If so, be honest: is this really about the campaign not adopting the Be Rational Plan?

  92. Be Rational

    Gary Johnson was the best choice available to the LP at the convention.
    Gary Johnson is still the best choice available as an annuonced write-in or the ballot in November.
    Gary Johnson’s campaign is still a train-wreck when it comes to management of resources, advertising strategy and now, I can add, managing and assisting the candidate.

    So, voting for Johnson/Weld is still the best choice against Clinton and Trump.

    But, you have to laugh at the comedy while you cry at the tragedy.

    Perhaps this is what baseball fans feel like when they loyally support a franchise team that never wins the pennant.

  93. Trent Hill

    I find it interesting that some of the biggest developments regarding one of the most successful third party campaigns since IPR was founded are not covered here. Like the various newspaper endorsements (some of which have been reported, others have not) or the securing of the Independence Party of NY ballot line.

    The IP ballot-line in NY is huge. Basically guarantees tens of thousands of extra votes.

  94. Be Rational

    “Obama:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws
    Now, I’m sure Obama knows there’s 50 states, and yet he actually said this.
    What does that tell you, BR?
    It tells me that being on stage or in front of the camera might look easy to the dogmatist spouting dogma, but to real people…not so much.” – RC

    *
    Yes, I remember that happening. It made Obama look like a bigger idiot than Johnson. But the reach of the Internet and influence of social media was far less important in 2008. And the Obama campaign had enough money to spend on advertising to drown the negative fallout from Obama’s ignorance of US geography. I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t know there were 50 states at that time.

  95. robert capozzi

    The analogy doesn’t work for me. For me, the LP has been like a single-A team that suddenly is an expansion team in the majors this year. I’m not surprised at the gaffes.

    I’m glad we (finally) agree that candidate handling is the area where the campaign is weak. Whether ordering the NYT and WSJ to his hotel door in the morning would have solved the problem, I’m not so sure. GJ needed an Axelrod or Jarrett in early 2016 or earlier, grooming him.

    Still, despite the bumbling, it’s pretty cool to see an L semi-breaking through.

  96. Be Rational

    “The IP ballot-line in NY is huge. Basically guarantees tens of thousands of extra votes.”

    It also makes it theoretically much harder for Johnson to win in New York, unless they have solved the presidential elector problem.

    The LP and the IP have different slates of electors. So, the two parties are competing against each other as well as Clinton and Trump for the most votes in order to elect their slate of electors. Either the LP or the IP would have to finish first alone in order to carry NY.

  97. Anthony Dlugos

    “I’m glad we (finally) agree that candidate handling is the area where the campaign is weak.”

    I agree with this too.

  98. Jill Pyeatt

    Trent, you make a good point. As you may have noticed, there’s a lot of negative on this site right now. This presidential campaign seems to have brought out some bad traits in many people, and I suppose it’s natural this is has been part of IPR. Personally, I just burned out after our convention. We worked so hard covering people running for our nomination, and to have it wind down like this has been depressing for me. Since I have problems with depression anyway, I try to monitor this site so it’s salvageable after the election, but for now I’m doing other things.

    I don’t know about the other writers. Paulie has been busy with ballot access things. I do think most people will be back after the election, which can’t happen soon enough for me.

  99. Trent Hill

    “It also makes it theoretically much harder for Johnson to win in New York, unless they have solved the presidential elector problem.”

    Be Rational,

    Be rational. That’s not going to happen. Not an issue.

  100. Darcy G Richardson

    In trying to defend its ridiculous endorsement of Gary Johnson during an interview on NPR yesterday, an obviously embarrassed Nolan Finley, the editorial page editor of the Detroit News, described Johnson as “an intelligent man” and even “a little bit wonkish.”

    Seriously. He really said that, but quickly added that they probably wouldn’t encourage Johnson to continue doing off-the-cuff interviews.

    In other words, they endorsed a candidate for President that they would only trust with a prepared script.

    That pretty much tells you everything you need to know about that newspaper. It’s no wonder they’ve been thoroughly lambasted these past few days.

  101. Darcy G Richardson

    …and this is the same newspaper that bemoaned Gary’s exclusion from Monday’s presidential debate — an event in which he wouldn’t have had the luxury of a script and would have been required to be quick on his feet.

  102. Be Rational

    “It also makes it theoretically much harder for Johnson to win in New York, unless they have solved the presidential elector problem.”

    Be Rational,

    “Be rational. That’s not going to happen. Not an issue.” – TH
    *
    The issue is that it would have been better to avoid the problem. It could discourage some voters.

  103. Thomas L. Knapp

    “May not be a Maserati, but it’ll get ’em where they need to go.”

    Sure it will, if where they want to go is (based on Johnson/Weld’s records and public statements):

    Government spending and government debt increased faster than under Obama; no Second Amendment; no Fifth Amendment; every man, woman and child in the United States on a cradle to grave monthly federal government welfare check; Jews, please report to the bakery, your Nazis are calling.

    Thing is, even if that’s where you want to go and where the voters want to go, it’s not where the Libertarian Party says it wants to go. Which is why nominating Johnson/Weld, then continuing to pretend they represent the party when they publicly repudiate it on a constant basis, is a mentally retarded, morally reprobate and completely impractical approach to politics for the party.

  104. Thomas L. Knapp

    The problem with the Independence Party ballot line, if there is one, is not that it makes it harder for Johnson/Weld to win New York. Not only is that not going to happen, that was never going to happen.

    The problem with the Independence Party ballot line, if there is one, is that it reduces likely Libertarian Party votes in New York — not just for Johnson but for down-ticket candidates.

    If that problem exists, I don’t know if it is outweighed by, or outweighs, the benefits of having that ballot line (possibly more total presidential votes, some prestige, who knows, maybe an ongoing party alliance of some sort).

    If I’m not mistaken, “major party” status is tied solely to the gubernatorial race, not the presidential race, so at least Weld doesn’t have the opportunity to fuck us again on that.

  105. robert capozzi

    tk, would you say that L. Neil Smith for president was a PRACTICAL approach? If so, why so?

  106. Andy

    Anthony Dlugos said: “That’s why the Libertarian polling numbers are holding. Don’t let anyone tell you differently. Had we nominated anyone else, even with Trump and Clinton as the candidates, we’d be at less than 5% right now, with NO legit endorsements, NO media attention, and thus on the EXACT trajectory that they predicted for Johnson Weld…to the netherworld of less than 1%.”

    First of all, this is merely conjecture on your part. Nobody knows for sure how well the other candidates for the nomination would be doing right now it terms of polls, endorsement, and coverage.

    Second of all, our goal is not just to get coverage and endorsements and votes, just for the sake of doing these things. Our goal is to move the country in a more libertarian direction. Given all of the ways that Johnson/Weld have advocated against the Libertarian Party’s platform, and all the ways that they have pandered to the political establishment, they are doing a poor job of this.

  107. Andy

    Thomas Knapp said: “If I’m not mistaken, ‘major party’ status is tied solely to the gubernatorial race, not the presidential race, so at least Weld doesn’t have the opportunity to fuck us again on that.”

    I am pretty sure that in New York, the vote test for ballot retention applies to vote totals for Governor and for President.

  108. Thomas L. Knapp

    “tk, would you say that L. Neil Smith for president was a PRACTICAL approach? If so, why so?”

    I’d have to know what year and what locale you are referring to in order to offer an opinion of whether it weighs in at “more” or “less” on the continuum of practicality and why. I can, however, say with some assurance that there has never to this point been a year when running L. Neil Smith would have been as impractical* as running Gary Johnson has been this year.

    * Vis a vis contributing to the achievement of the party’s purposes.

  109. Be Rational

    Ballot status for a party in New York requires winning 50,000 votes for Governor. The LP can’t win ballot status this year in NY.

  110. George Dance

    Trent Hill – “I find it interesting that some of the biggest developments regarding one of the most successful third party campaigns since IPR was founded are not covered here. Like the various newspaper endorsements (some of which have been reported, others have not) or the securing of the Independence Party of NY ballot line.”

    Gaining the second ballot line in NY was nice; but I’ve read that, unlike Donald and Hillary (who will have all their votes, on different ballot lines, counted together), Johnson’s 2 totals will be counted separately. So they’ve got him running against himself.

  111. Andy

    “Anthony Dlugos
    September 30, 2016 at 17:25
    Sharpe can get 50,000 votes for governor in 2018, no?”

    I believe that Sharpe, or whoever the LP nominates for Governor of New York in 2018, is capable of doing it, but there is a lot that can happen between now and then, so who knows?

  112. George Dance

    Andy – “Why should anyone automatically give a rat’s ass if a candidate has been elected Governor or anything else?”

    The same reason that, if more than one person is a ‘candidate’ for a job for barber, or librarian, the selection committee should “give a rat’s ass” about who has experience working as a barber or librarian.

  113. George Dance

    Trent Hill – “I find it interesting that some of the biggest developments regarding one of the most successful third party campaigns since IPR was founded are not covered here.”

    One might think that those and other facts (such as the fact of a Libertarian Senatorial candidate polling in second place, with 30% of the vote) might be worthy of a story.

  114. Andy

    “George Dance
    September 30, 2016 at 19:11
    Andy – ‘Why should anyone automatically give a rat’s ass if a candidate has been elected Governor or anything else?’

    The same reason that, if more than one person is a ‘candidate’ for a job for barber, or librarian, the selection committee should ‘give a rat’s ass’ about who has experience working as a barber or librarian.”

    Yeah, but Libertarians should not be interested in candidates whose experience as elected office holders is that they grew the size of government while in office (note that under Governor Gary Johnson, New Mexico’s state debt went from $1.6 billion to $4.8 billion).

    We don’t want candidates who are going to grow government, we want candidates who are going to shut down government, or at least make large cuts to the size of government.

    I’d rather have a person who has never held office than have a candidate who greatly increased government debt, or who signed gun control bills (like Bill Weld did).

  115. George Dance

    Andy – “Yeah, but Libertarians should not be interested in candidates whose experience as elected office holders is that they grew the size of government while in office (note that under Governor Gary Johnson, New Mexico’s state debt went from $1.6 billion to $4.8 billion).”

    Well, that may be all a Libertarian government CEO might be able to do without a Libertarian people and legislature supporting him – fight a holding action against the growth of government. I don’t know of anyone who’s been able to do anything more. That’s something one can learn only be experience.

    As for the NM debt: all that indicates that Johnson was less successul in vetoing, or not having his vetoes overridden when it came to spending increases, than he was when it came to tax increases. Considering how much “we, the people” hate taxes and love government spending, that’s a likely hypothesis.

    I should also point out that much of the undeniable spending increases in Mexico during Johnson’s time in office came from federal mandates, over which he had no power.

  116. Root's Teeth Are Awesome

    rtaa: Whereas Johnson, in addition to libertarians, is also attracting squishy Democrats, Republicans, and independents.

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    On Election Day, squishes go home or stay home. So my point was that Johnson’s “high” polling numbers are unreliable, because his squish support will evaporate come November.

  117. George Dance

    Gary Johnson endorses George W. Bush
    “George Bush would make a great president.” Gary Johnson

    Johnson was a Republican. Republicans endorse the Republicans candidates). (Rand Paul endorsed both Romney and Trump, eg.; so did Root; Hospers endorsed GWB; etc.) That’s what political parties do. (It’s only in the LIbertarian Party that it’s considered normal to make “libertarian” (or any ideological equivalent) more important than “party”.

    In 2008, Johnson endorsed Ron Paul – and saved the Paul campaign. For me, that was a far more significant endorsement.

  118. Andy

    George Dance, can you tell us how many people Gary Johnson pardoned for victimless crimes while Governor of New Mexico? How many speeches did he give about Jury nullification? Did he ever invoke the 10th amendment and kick the feds out of New Mexico when it came to issues that are supposed to be left for the state or for the people? How about government spending? Did spending go up or down when Gary Johnson was Governor?

  119. Thomas L. Knapp

    “As for the NM debt: all that indicates that Johnson was less successul in vetoing, or not having his vetoes overridden when it came to spending increases”

    Nice try. The bulk of the increased government debt in New Mexico was from two projects that Johnson himself pushed — a giant highway expansion and the construction of new prisons.

  120. Andy

    “George Dance
    September 30, 2016 at 19:51
    Gary Johnson endorses George W. Bush
    “George Bush would make a great president.” Gary Johnson

    Johnson was a Republican. Republicans endorse the Republicans candidates). (Rand Paul endorsed both Romney and Trump, eg.; so did Root; Hospers endorsed GWB; etc.) ”

    Rand Paul was rightly criticized for this as well, but at least Rand has the excuse of running for office again and needing to do political favors. Johnson was not running for office again, so what was his excuse for endorsing Bush?

    I discovered the Libertarian Party at a young age in the 1990’s. How come I had enough sense to see George W. Bush for what he really is, a lying authoritarian sociopath scumbag politician, but Gary Johnson was not capable of figuring this out?

    Remember, Gary Johnson was already a self proclaimed libertarian YEARS before the 2000 election when he endorsed George W. Bush.

  121. Andy

    George Dance said: “In 2008, Johnson endorsed Ron Paul – and saved the Paul campaign”

    That was nice that he endorsed Ron Paul (certainly better than endorsing George W. Bush), but saying that he “saved” the Ron Paul campaign is a ridiculous exaggeration of epic proportions.

  122. Anthony Dlugos

    “Did he ever invoke the 10th amendment and kick the feds out of New Mexico when it came to issues that are supposed to be left for the state or for the people?”

    lol.

    Andy’s getting ready for Civil War II.

  123. Anthony Dlugos

    “On Election Day, squishes go home or stay home. So my point was that Johnson’s “high” polling numbers are unreliable, because his squish support will evaporate come November.”

    Care to wager on that, Root’s Teeth Are Awesome?

    Not that it matters, its not like any of the other candidates would have done anything other than disappear into the obscurity of internet podcast interviews.

  124. George Dance

    Andy – “That was nice that he endorsed Ron Paul (certainly better than endorsing George W. Bush), but saying that he “saved” the Ron Paul campaign is a ridiculous exaggeration of epic proportions.”

    Do you know what I’m talking about? Johnson’s endorsement came a week or so after the New Republic broke the story (again) of the anti-Jewish, anti-black Ron Paul Newsletters. Before that the media had been hammering Paul about them non-stop, and after it they stopped talking about them. That was yuge.

  125. Anthony Dlugos

    Since no one else in Orlando had elective office experience, criticizing Johnson’s record (incorrectly, I might add), is a pointless endeavor, the null set.

    The only honorable response, frankly speaking, is Andy’s hallucination that experience in office either doesn’t matter, or is a disqualification, for the most powerful executive office in human history.

  126. George Dance

    Andy: “Remember, Gary Johnson was already a self proclaimed libertarian YEARS before the 2000 election when he endorsed George W. Bush.”

    And a Libertarian, too; but he left the Libertarian Party when he decided to run for Governor. After that, he was a member of the Republican Party, which means endorsing other Republicans. That’s part of what being in a party entails.

  127. George Dance

    GD: “As for the NM debt: all that indicates that Johnson was less successul in vetoing, or not having his vetoes overridden when it came to spending increases”

    TK: “Nice try. The bulk of the increased government debt in New Mexico was from two projects that Johnson himself pushed — a giant highway expansion and the construction of new prisons.”

    I have seen a report, directly commenting on the Johnson-grew-spending-faster-than-Obama one you keep quoting, that says that more than $3 billion of that $7 billion increase came from Federal mandates: something Johnson had no control over.

    I didn’t bookmark the article, so I haven’t been able to cite it in reply to you before; but since you cut my point about those mandates, I have to bring it up here.

  128. George Dance

    Andy – ” Did he ever invoke the 10th amendment and kick the feds out of New Mexico when it came to issues that are supposed to be left for the state or for the people?

    No. Maybe it occurred to him to fight federal mandates that way. But by all indications the state (the legislaure) and the people wanted that spending.

    “How about government spending? Did spending go up or down when Gary Johnson was Governor?”

    Up. But how much of that was due to Johnson? And how much to the legislature and the feds? Is there any evidence that Johnson tried or wanted to increase spending?

  129. Andy

    George Dance said: “After that, he was a member of the Republican Party, which means endorsing other Republicans. That’s part of what being in a party entails.”

    Gary Johnson did not have to endorse George W. Bush for President. He was not running for re-election, or for anything else.

    Sure, this was 16 years ago, and I understand that people make mistakes. Maybe I’d even forgive him for it if there were not all of these other transgressions on his record, both current and past.

  130. Andy

    Anthony Dlugos
    September 30, 2016 at 20:43
    Since no one else in Orlando had elective office experience, criticizing Johnson’s record (incorrectly, I might add), is a pointless endeavor, the null set.

    The only honorable response, frankly speaking, is Andy’s hallucination that experience in office either doesn’t matter, or is a disqualification, for the most powerful executive office in human history.”

    Johnson’s record, both as Governor, and from his 2012 campaign, should have been enough to disqualify him from being nominated in Orlando.

    The party should have taken a chance with Perry or McAfee or Petersen, or the late Dr. Feldman.

  131. Anthony Dlugos

    You can’t use record in office as a measure stick when he was the ONLY one with a record in office. You can say you don’t give a crap at all about ANYONE’s record in office and ignore it entirely (a looney tunes position, but at least consistent. ), but you can’t review his record when no one else had a record to review, only their bloviating.

  132. Andy

    “Anthony Dlugos
    September 30, 2016 at 21:34
    You can’t use record in office as a measure stick when he was the ONLY one with a record in office. You can say you don’t give a crap at all about ANYONE’s record in office and ignore it entirely (a looney tunes position, but at least consistent. ), but you can’t review his record when no one else had a record to review, only their bloviating.”

    Yes, none of the other candidates had ever held elected office before, just like Donald Trump and Ralph Nader and Ross Perot and Pat Buchanan.

    I first discovered the Libertarian Party back in 1996 when Harry Browne was running for President. I did not give a shit that Harry Browne had not held office before. I actually saw him not having been a career politician as a good thing.

    Would it be nice if we had real libertarians who were elected as Governors or US Senators, and who then ran for President? Sure, that would be great, but reality is that we don’t have this.

    So being that we don’t have any real libertarians who have been elected as Governors or US Senators who are jumping at the chance to run for the Libertarian Party’s presidential nomination, it is no reason for us to nominate PHONIES who have been elected to these offices.

    I would much rather have a real, hardcore libertarian activist, who has a long track record of libertarian activism, and who can inspire and educate people, as our candidate, than nominate some phony who waves around their former elected official status like it is a “shiny object” that everyone is supposed to admire, and actual libertarian activism be damned.

  133. Thomas L. Knapp

    “You can’t use record in office as a measure stick when he was the ONLY one with a record in office.”

    Every prisoner in every cell in America will be glad to know that what they actually did doesn’t matter unless everyone else did the same things.

  134. natural born citizen

    @knapp 17:11 is obviously ignorant of Libertarian Party history.

    L. Neil Smith was the Arizona Libertarian Part’s nominee for President in the year 2000.

  135. Andy

    This kid who made this video has a lot more sense than the adults who voted for Gary Johnson and Bill Weld to be our nominees for President and Vice President.

    Gary Johnson is NOT a Libertarian

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