‘John Monds: A Credible Libertarian Candidate’

Libertarian John Monds has declared his candidacy in the race for governor of Georgia.  In 2008, he received more votes than any other Libertarian in any race in the history of the party, topping one million votes and 33% in an election against a Republican for Georgia Public Service Commission.  The Liberty Papers is calling him a “credible candidate” and he has been featured on FOX News in Atlanta:

The election will be held on November 2, 2010.

124 thoughts on “‘John Monds: A Credible Libertarian Candidate’

  1. VAGreen

    Lincoln Chafee as an Independent in RI, John Monds as a Libertarian in GA, and quite likely Rich Whitney as a Green in IL. Looks like we’ve got some strong challengers to the duopoly in 2010.

  2. Rocky Eades

    John made the governor’s race coverage in the Augusta (Ga) Chronicle this morning. “Strengths: Known community leader; has potential to tap into skepticism about big government.” “It would help if: Developments undermine public confidence in big government.”

  3. Robert Capozzi

    Go, Monds, go!

    This clip of an articulate, reasonable, African-American L is VERY encouraging on a lot of levels. I can imagine he could be a real factor in the race.

  4. Trent Hill

    If John Oxendentine (sp?) loses the Republican Primary, look for Monds to get alot of votes. Also, if the Democratic candidate is white, he’d be smart to try and play to the black-vote.

  5. Donald Raymond Lake

    VAGreen: ya think some one might be far sighted enough concerning the [Vermont] Progressives, The Minnesota ‘new’ Open Progressive party, and Mister Chaffee in Rhode Island to suggest the Teddy Roosevelt and the Theordore Bear plush toy and the Bull Moose as common sense mascot[s]?

    Bob Barr 2008 sure did not hurry to adopt such! [Some one get that dude a watch!]

  6. Rich Vanier

    A common sense Libertarian. We need more candidates like John Monds in the LP.

  7. Wes Benedict

    While some of his presentation sounds Republican, he calls out big business and alludes to the drug issue in the YouTube posted by PTK:

    “Why is it that one in thirteen Georgians are caught up in the web of the criminal justice system? If we truly believe in a free society, we must look closely at the incarceration of individuals involved in non-violoent victimless vices. Should families be broken up, and taxes increased, to house mainly adults in prisons for making personal health choices? Government as we know it, has gone way beyond the scope that was layed down by the founders of this nation.”

    Go John Monds!

  8. Rocky Eades

    He also came out against school vouchers and for private roads. What part did you think sounded republican?

  9. Rocky Eades

    For Wes @ #13 – He also came out against school vouchers and for private roads. What part did you think sounded republican?

  10. Wes Benedict

    Rocky Eades:
    If John Monds gets transferred from Georgia to Texas for some reason (unlikely), put me on his support list for Governor of Texas.

    I’m commending him for going beyond addressing economic issues which many Republicans address (even if only giving lip service to those issues) and addressing victimless incarceration issues.

  11. Robert Capozzi

    I thought Monds handles the roads and vouchers thing well, too. He didn’t hold high the banner of private roads and why govt manipulation of vouchers is “evil,” he simply suggested that toll roads COULD BE a more effective solution and that strings attached to vouchers make them suspect.

    He wasn’t absolutist about it.

    We have much to learn from Mr. Monds!

  12. Tomcat

    I had the chance to chat with John Monds this past weekend. He attended the organizational meeting for our affiliate here in Georgia. A genuinely good guy, personable, charismatic without being “creepy” with it, all in all a great candidate.

    He’s definitely got a good shot. Oxendine is definitely the front runner right about now, but I wouldn’t rule out Ray McBerry on the R ticket, which would actually not be good for Monds, since Ray has some libertarian leanings on a few issues. That could draw away votes from Monds, especially if there’s a strong D candidate.

    Still, we’ll be happy if Monds can pull of 20% (unprecidented so far as I know) since that gives us major party status.

  13. a different paul

    “He’s definitely got a good shot.”

    I hope so, but its more than being a good candidate and saying the right things. He has time, but he’s got to start building organization now.

    How did he get 33 percent before? Was he the lone opponent running in that statewide? How many contacts does he have from that race? Those are key questions now.

    If he has the beginnings of some local organizations – like down to the precinct level – he’s in good shape. If not, the campaign team needs quickly to start doing that.

    If it ends up being a close race, it will come down to GOTV, and you can’t do that without the organized volunteers who already know who their voters are in each precinct.

  14. Tomcat

    I can answer a few of those things. John Monds’ previous campaign was for the Public Service Commission, and he ran against a Republican only, so that definitely helped him get the 33%.

    As for organization, he seems to be working on that one already. He’s using a lot of new techonology such as Facebook and Twitter to connect with potential voters, plus he’s willing to go and speak to almost anyone. In fact, he mentioned getting an invite to speak to a League of the South group, and he’s going to do it.

    Of course, my information is only what I’ve picked up or what I’ve figured out on my own from conversations with him and some of those who are key in helping him.

  15. robert capozzi

    League of the South? If memory serves, isn’t that a revisionist organization? Proceed with extreme caution, if so.

  16. Tomcat

    More like a successionist organization, but Monds plans on being cautious. He’s not going to pander to them, that’s for sure.

    Personally, I think the invite was because they didn’t believe a black man would accept, but who knows 😉

  17. robert capozzi

    If Monds is really clever, he can use the irony of this invite to his advantage.

  18. Erik Geib

    I shudder to associate myself with anyone who associates with the League of the South. Very scary people.

    In fact, it was one of the biggest reasons I lost faith in the Ron Paul campaign – when I was in South Carolina our state (campaign) chair was actively courting their support.

    The League’s core beliefs incorporate in a lot of things many supposed libertarians would like (opposition to central banking, the income tax, etc.), but they also have no grasp of the separation of church and state. Having met with these people in what they thought to be ‘comfortable’ company, I can also assure you that many of them are bigoted racists trying to hide behind the veil of credibility.

    The Lew Rockwell crowd might not see a problem with the League, but I certainly do. I should hope Monds is smart enough to re-consider such a move.

  19. Susan Hogarth

    I shudder to associate myself with anyone who associates with the League of the South.

    Who could need our message more?

    Speak anywhere, to anyone, at any time. But make sure you get a recording! 🙂

  20. Tomcat

    Erik,

    While I can’t comment on the League myself (never been a member and don’t have any intention of being a member), I have to disagree with you about the wisdom of the move. There are probably a fair number of League members who are libertarian in leaning who Monds may be able to court.

    The racists won’t vote for him no matter what, but to paint the entire membership with a broad brush based on one person’s dealings with them seems inappropriate. However, I agree with Susan’s suggestion of having a recording. It’ll help him be protected should they claim he said something he didn’t.

    Besides,I feel that the Libertarian Party isn’t so strong that it can afford to pass up speaking opportunities just because some of the members of a group are racist. Truth be told, that would mean that Monds shouldn’t speak at most any organization here in Georgia, because someone in the crowd is probably a racist on some level. 😉

  21. robert capozzi

    yes, this may be an excellent time to play the Rodney King card. Imagine if King were to introduce Monds. Invite the press. Monds could speak passionately on peace, civil liberties, the hard fought principle of equal protection. Distance the LP from the angry white male rep its developed, and why liberty FOR ALL should be our core message.

    Monds need not play footsie with the shrinking Lester Maddox demographic. For every Lester, there are at least 10, even 100, non Lesters, both black and white.

  22. Erik Geib

    “I feel that the Libertarian Party isn’t so strong that it can afford to pass up speaking opportunities just because some of the members of a group are racist.”

    I don’t believe I said “some,” I believe I said “many.” By using “many,” I also didn’t “paint the entire membership with a broad brush based on one person’s dealings with them.” If I were seeking absolutist answers, I would have said all, but I’m generally careful in regards to making such statements. Obviously I don’t know all of them, nor even if I did could I necessarily gather their sentiments on race. That being said, I could have well said that “all” the members I met were racists, but I chose to use “many” simply to avoid absolute terms.

    I *tried* working with League members for the betterment of a campaign – it wasn’t very productive. Truth be told, seeing a headquarters full of confederate flags when the League’s members were around didn’t do much for “outreach.” I must have heard the ‘n’ word more times than I care to estimate, and it was these crazy assholes who were the among the catalysts for the ‘Obama is a Muslim’ nonsense in the area I lived.

    That being said, I don’t doubt their cleverness. The League, from my experience in dealing with them, appears to be stocked with what I’d call “politically savvy” racists – people who realize that traditional neo-confederate causes or bullshit like stormfront don’t win much in the war of public opinion. This is because they would (obviously) like more acceptance for many of their ‘core beliefs’ (which are primarily opposition to centralized government mixed with Christian theologism), while keeping the racist stuff mum for now (at least openly). Again, when they think they’re in ‘comfortable company’ (I assume they thought it was okay to speak as they did in front of me since I’m a white male from Texas) the members I encountered don’t hesitate to spew racist non-sense.

    I can understand people here playing devil’s advocate, but if you haven’t encountered the League, I’d recommend not attempting to defend them as a part of ‘outreach efforts.’ It wouldn’t come across as news to anyone I know in SC that the League is thought of as intrinsically racist.

  23. Tomcat

    I’m not trying to defend the League. I have had some encounters with many of their members through the years, and most of them weren’t racists. Of course, Georgia and South Carolina are different states, and the make up of a group in one state can be very different than another. Further, I don’t pretend to have met all of the League’s members (and I’m sure you’re the same way).

    I don’t want to get into a discussion about the League. Instead, I’ll just say that I don’t see an issue with Monds speaking to whoever invites him to speak. It’s only through sincere efforts like those that Monds has a shot at making a splash in the election.

  24. Erik Geib

    I respectfully disagree. I think being associated with known/perceived racists only serves to further discredit the LP as a ‘credible’ party.

    It’s also worth noting that some of the people working in the campaign that I met affiliated with the League weren’t exclusively from SC. People poured in from GA, NC, TN, etc. to work.

    To me, this is the equivalent of speaking to a group of Holocaust deniers who just so happen to be for limiting government.

  25. Tomcat

    Fine Erik. I completely disagree with your assessment and opinions, but I’m not going to get into this with you, especially not here.

    Whether this happens or not is completely out of my control, and it was just a passing comment made to me by Mr. Monds. Frankly though, I agree with the approach he seems to be taking, despite YOUR experiences, which don’t coincide with my own.

    If this is indeed the racist organization you feel it is, I sincerely doubt that Monds will ever speak to them. I simply shared this as an example of his willingness to “talk to anyone”. Now I’m regretting ever mentioning a damn thing.

  26. Tomcat

    Tell you what Erik, I’ll pass along your link to Mr. Monds. SPLC HAS called a lot of groups racist through the years, groups that I personally knew members of, but I’ll let Mr. Monds make the decision with all the facts.

  27. Erik Geib

    “In retrospect, it is clear that LOS included hard-liners from the start. One LOS founding member who now sits on the board of directors is Jack Kershaw, who is also a member of the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC).

    As described in an earlier issue of the Intelligence Report (Winter 1999, No. 93), the CCC is directly descended from the White Citizens Councils of the 1950s and 1960s, racist groups known as the “uptown Klan” that fought against desegregation in the South.

    And indeed, Kershaw’s lineage goes back to one of those councils, the Citizens Council of Tennessee, of which he was executive secretary.

    With the help of LOS, Kershaw recently erected in Nashville a huge statue of Confederate general Nathan Bedford Forrest — a man who was also the Ku Klux Klan’s first imperial wizard, a fact the LOS studiously avoids mentioning.

    “Somebody needs to say a good word for slavery,” Kershaw said in 1998. “Where in the world are the Negroes better off today than in America?” ”

    “Finally, there is Phil Beverly, the president of the Birmingham chapter of the League as well as the head of the Central Alabama CCC. Recently, he posted a Webster’s definition of “racism” on the AlaReb list and then explained: “I fail to see why anyone would shrink from the application of the term… . All the evidence supports the above belief. Why should we be afraid of telling the truth?””

    “In his 1996 “President’s Message,” Hill said the South sought by the LOS is one “where the interests of the core population of Anglo-Celts is protected from the ravages of so-called multiculturalism and diversity.” The “European majority,” Hill adds, will accept “productive and sympathetic” people from other ethnic groups — but only “on its own terms.””

    “Hill also suggests that citizens need not be given equal rights: “While the teachings of Holy Scripture speak of a civil society composed of superiors, equals and inferiors, each protected in their legal privileges, Jacobin social theory posits that no adult can be justly denied any privilege due another, except perhaps as punishment for … a crime.” Sadly, Hill writes, most Christian Southerners have fallen prey to this “fatal heresy” of egalitarianism.

    “[T]he evil genie of universal ‘human rights,’ once loosed from its bottle, can never be restrained,” he writes, “because rights for women, racial and ethnic minorities, homosexuals, pedophiles, etc., can be manufactured easily.” ”

    “William Cawthon, a key LOS ideologue and head of the Northeast Georgia LOS chapter, adds that segregation “is not evil or wrong,” but simply a matter of racial “integrity.””

    “Soren Dresch, an LOS member and owner of the Ruffin Flag Co. that specializes in Confederate symbols, was blunt enough. “Sounds like Decatur needs a response to the blacks who think the world is their oyster,” he wrote on AlaReb. “I hope the next group … is armed and ready to hit an afro between the eyes.” Dresch refers to blacks in his postings as “savages,” “beasts” and “animals.””

    “Whether or not the League officially agrees with such sentiments, at least some LOS units are apparently unconcerned with appearances. Recently, the North Carolina chapter of the League added a new name to its Web site’s roster of local group officials.

    Named as official “advisor” to the chapter was Steven Barry — an open white supremacist and anti-Semite who is also the “military coordinator” of the neo-Nazi National Alliance and head of the secretive Special Forces Underground. ”

    ” A few have links to militias and other antigovernment “Patriot” groups. But what may be most remarkable of all is the way that racism, a visceral dislike for black people, has come to characterize the movement.

    “They’re getting frustrated and just dropping their pretenses,” says Ed Sebesta, a longtime researcher of the neo-Confederate movement.

    “They certainly want the revival of the principles of the Confederacy,” adds Arizona State University historian Brooks Simpson (see interview White Lies), “and one of those principles would in fact be white supremacy, unquestioned and explicit. The racism that’s woven into their comments is often quite astonishing.” ”
    (different article: http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=249)

    “But the contemporary neo-Confederate movement did not really take off until the League of the South was founded in 1994. Thanks largely to its veneer as a respectable, non-racist organization led mainly by academics, LOS grew very rapidly, counting 4,000 members by 1998 and more than twice that number now.

    The group mixes clearly racial themes — like its rendering of the South as “Anglo-Celtic” and little else — with anger at the multicultural “New World Order.” LOS also opposes non-white immigration, busing and interracial marriage. ”

  28. Erik Geib

    I’m thinking the SPLC’s assessment in this case is pretty on the mark.

  29. Tomcat

    And, as I said, I’ll pass that link along and let Mr. Monds and his people make a decision. What more can I do?

  30. Erik Geib

    Mr. Monds certainly has the right to “talk to anyone,” as he is a free individual and is free to make his own associations.

    As a member of the LP, however, I also have the right to personally condemn any representative of the party being associated with racist organizations. Of course, many organizations have racists members and there’s no stopping that – I’m not some dreamy-eyed ideologue. But if the *organization* is racist, I most certainly have the right to be offended.

    Obviously, we are all free to share our different various opinions. I’m simply stating that it’s of my opinion that speaking in front of the League would be a horrible move politically for both Mr. Monds and the LP.

  31. a different paul

    Facebook and Twitter are fine side activities, and probably an important part of fundraising, but I’m just not convinced that type of ‘organization’ replaces actual campaign work.

    Get your county offices in place, then try to get precinct captains everywhere you can, and have them interact with voters face to face. From there, you get your supporter lists and volunteers.

    The Democrats and Republicans both can draw on existing offices, existing lists of supporters, existing precinct captains, existing volunteer bases.

    Getting 33 percent when you’re the only other candidate probably means that a lot of those voters just didn’t want to vote for the Republican. I’ll bet most don’t remember Monds name. There’s a lot of work to be done if this is to be a serious campaign.

    As an aside, I think a statewide campaign is beyond the LP’s capacity and would advocate building from the local races up. But I do realize its a pretty good counter argument to say this guy in one state alone got more voters than any LP 50-state presidential candidate (I believe that’s what the article is saying). So maybe there is some name awareness upon which to build a statewide organization.

  32. Erik Geib

    I’m not saying there’s anything you should do beyond that.

    I just wanted to put the evidence concerning the League’s ties on the record so others would be more aware of its racism. In my opinion, which is based on my research and my dealings with League members, this is hardly a matter of debate.

  33. Tomcat

    Erik, I’ve already stated my experience is quite different than yours, so this could be a matter of debate. I simply have no desire to, so please leave it there since you’re not asking me to do anything else than that.

    ADP: I’m not privy to whatever else Mr. Monds is doing so far as campaigning, though I’m confident that he plans on doing far more than that. But 15 months out, it’s a good start IMO, especially for fund raising, as you said.

  34. Trent Hill

    “a man who was also the Ku Klux Klan’s first imperial wizard, a fact the LOS studiously avoids mentioning.”

    Nathan Forest was the first “imperial wizard”–but he also left the organization when it became violent–and denounced it vehemently. He later asked them NOT to use his name.

    As for the LOS–I dont think it is neccesarily racist, though it attracts a great deal of racists. Some of the people involved in the LOS and Abbeville Institute are Tom DiLorenzo and Thomas E. Woods–both of whom revere two jews (Mises and Rothbard) above all other thinkers.

  35. Erik Geib

    Trent,

    The point of that excerpt was the quote from an League founder who said, ““Somebody needs to say a good word for slavery,” Kershaw said in 1998. “Where in the world are the Negroes better off today than in America?” ””

    Also, I believe you can be racist against one group (blacks) and not against others (Jews) and still be considered racist. I’d also note that one’s admiration of another’s ideas doesn’t necessarily mean approval of their race/ancestry (particularly concerning all things Confederate, see: ‘The Jewish Confederates’ by Robert Rosen). It’s an old confederate trick to say “see? we’re not racist! we like Jews!”

    I don’t think the League just “attracts a great deal of racists.” When you factor in that its founders are racist, I think it’s safe to say the organization is racist. This is not to say confused non-racists (to my knowledge) might not belong, such as DiLorenzo, who genuinely intertwine their historical views with the League’s platform.

    It is also noteworthy that Thomas Woods seems to do everything he can to distance himself from the League nowadays. He’s even threatened libel suits against people who try to say he’s still/was a member. I actually think that Woods is a prime example of the League’s racist tendencies, as though he is a radical de-centralist, a Lincoln hater, and a secessionist sympathizer, he still chooses to disassociate himself with past League involvement as much as possible.

  36. Erik Geib

    It’s furthermore of note that Woods has been frantically requesting the removal of past articles for further fear of association with the League. Example: http://reformed-theology.org/html/issue04/christendom.htm

    Nevertheless, the point of my original suggestion was to avoid the League so as to spare the same mess that someone like Woods is going through. Brining up Woods and DiLorenzo is actually quite helpful to this argument.

  37. John C

    I agree with Erik Geib about the LOS being a racist organization. However, I am not so sure speaking to a group is the same as “associating” with them. It’s his call.

  38. Trent Hill

    “It is also noteworthy that Thomas Woods seems to do everything he can to distance himself from the League nowadays. He’s even threatened libel suits against people who try to say he’s still/was a member. I actually think that Woods is a prime example of the League’s racist tendencies, as though he is a radical de-centralist, a Lincoln hater, and a secessionist sympathizer, he still chooses to disassociate himself with past League involvement as much as possible.”

    Erik–I see your point. I believe I misread your points, or misunderstood them, and think you’ve made a very good arguement that the group itself is racist. I dont admit defeat often, but when im wrong, im wrong. Thanks for the education.

  39. Steve Perkins

    Sheesh… ONE positive piece about a Libertarian campaign, to break the monotony of LNC faction squabbling, and it gets picked over for just a moment before the community finds some flimsy peg (League of the South) to hang its “this is terrible!” hat on.

    Look… the Georgia affiliate has an African-American female currently holding elected office (city council). Our likely gubernatorial candidate is head of his local NAACP chapter. At the last national convention I attended, at least 50% of the minorities in the building were Georgia delegates. So don’t sweat our image for diversity or racism… the only bad press we’re likely to get is from Libertarian bloggers elsewhere who are still sore about a certain Presidential nomination, and who seriously believe that we sit around all day scheming against Wiccans and puppies.

    Seriously though, I do respect the sentiment and understand the trouble that Ron Paul encountered. However, let’s acknowledge the obvious difference. An African-American candidate speaking to a Southern heritage group doesn’t raise the same “flags” (no confederate pun intended!) as a white candidate. Awkward, but true.

    Monds is one of the most active candidates I’ve ever seen. In the past, candidates weren’t recruited until shortly before the election-year convention… when it was already far too late to start a campaign. Monds is genuinely running for the nomination… announcing and starting his fundraising almost two years out. He’s been getting serious mainstream coverage, and travels constantly to speaking invitations. He’s open to talking and listening in good faith to people, even when they come from very different perspectives. It’s a very useful attribute, and it we as a national party could use a little of that internally also (fingers honestly not pointing in any particular direction).

  40. Robert Capozzi

    sp: An African-American candidate speaking to a Southern heritage group doesn’t raise the same “flags” (no confederate pun intended!) as a white candidate. Awkward, but true.

    me: Yes, it IS true, if awkward. My gut tells me if Monds were caucasian, I’d say “decline” the LotS. As a black man, however, it becomes a tremendous opportunity IF handled properly.

  41. mdh

    I wish more of my black buddies were into politics. Getting most of my buddies into politics is hard though, most people I know just want nothing to do with it.

  42. G.E.

    “As a libertarian, I’d like to see the private sector get more involved in transportation and roads.”

    “The problem I have with vouchers…”

    Uh oh. Alert the LNC HQ — there’s a REAL libertarian running for office. Quick, demonize him!

    He presented REAL libertarian messages in a very non-threatening manner. Where has this guy been?

  43. G.E.

    If memory serves, isn’t that a revisionist organization?

    Oh nos! Not revisionism! We need to leave the lies in history books alone!

    Capozzi, you are such a sickening toady for the state.

    Eric Gieb cites the fucking SPLC to condemn the LotS. Wow.

    Don’t get me wrong: LotS is no good; but why not talk to them? Jeez.

  44. a different paul

    “As a black man, however, it becomes a tremendous opportunity IF handled properly.”

    I agree, but its a difficult thing. How do you entice the press without implying in media alerts that this is a racist group? The only way to intrigue the media is offer them something newsworthy – the opportunity you’re seeing here is a black candidate speaking before a ‘racist’ group, but how to you prep that without amateurishly insulting your hosts?

    I’m guessing this group may not be as racist as assumed, or as it may have been in the past, just purely on the basis of this invitation.

    Can Monds pull an Obama-on-race here? Well, there is a difference of newsworthiness magnitude. Obama was the first black guy who had a realistic shot at winning the presidency. Monds is only running for governor, and wouldn’t be the first black one in the U.S. Besides, Monds hasn’t demonstrated he has a real shot at winning yet. So just by the political stature of the messenger, there’s little comparison.

    Has this group hosted an LP candidate for governor before? Maybe the better approach is to use the newsworthy angle of a third party candidate who may actually have a shot… and let the reporters’ imaginations fill in the racial sub-plot.

  45. G.E.

    I never thought I’d donate another dime to a libertarian candidate. I just gave Monds $25. Everyone should do the same.

  46. Steve Perkins

    Uhh… a moment ago you were apprehensive about the guy appearing at all. Now you’re suggesting he not only appear, but make his speech (to this bunch of elderly white folks) be about telling black guys to be better fathers, etc. I’m closer to your original position myself.

    At any rate, that sort of thing hasn’t seemed to be Monds’ style thus far. His ethnicity is obvious, and it would be dishonest for the affiliate to pretend that it doesn’t draw publicity. However, the guy really isn’t a “one-trick pony” who leans on that… he’s been a seriously effective and well-rounded candidate.

  47. Chris Bennett

    LibertarianGirl,

    There have been many black LP candidates and members, I being one of them, but over the last 8 years or so, we have been pushed away by the conservatarians running the party. Richard Boddie, a fellow black libertarian, introduced me to the LP; however he is no longer active in the party. When Angela Keaton got a women and minority committee set up through the LNC, the conservatarians on the LNC weren’t all too thrilled with it. Their response basically was “how dare we outreach to those who aren’t angry middle aged white guys! They vote Democrat, they live off the government roles, they are criminals!”

    Hmmm, I guess what they are describing are Congressmen too, don’t ya think?

  48. Steven R Linnabary

    How do you entice the press without implying in media alerts that this is a racist group?

    Nobody will care if the story is presented as a “third party candidate speaks to allegedly racist group”.

    But the story becomes a “man bites dog” story when presented as a “black candidate speaks to allegedly racist group”.

    I wouldn’t use those exact words, but something that makes the media sit up and take notice.

    PEACE

  49. Erik Geib

    “Eric Gieb cites the fucking SPLC to condemn the LotS. Wow.”

    Wow, indeed. Someone sounds like a closet Republican with such frothy condemnation. I see no problem citing the SPLC when they correctly point out founding members of the League’s past/current affiliations with white supremacist groups.

  50. Erik Geib

    On a related note, as I’ve stated before, I’m only saying I would personally advise against this.

    It doesn’t mean I’d withdraw supporting him, nor does it mean I think this hurts his ‘credibility’ as libertarian. What I think it *could* hurt is his credibility with the press (fairly or not). I’m not from the school of “any coverage is good coverage.”

    That being said, I wouldn’t mind hearing more of his views, as I like what I’ve heard so far (League controversy aside).

  51. Robert Capozzi

    sp 58, note that I first expressed concern about the LotS on this thread. Erik research’s confirmed my vague collections of what they stand for.

    I’m seeing this as turning adversity into opportunity. Obviously, Monds’s message would be different from Obama’s. Off the top of my head, I could imagine a theme such as “Toward a Color-Blind Society,” or “Content of Character.” He could use this anomalous venue to at once distance his campaign and L-ism from racism and racists without explicitly embarrassing the hosts. But, he could also reach out to blacks and minorities generally with the idea that playing the victim no longer works. Of course there have been race, gender, and sex-preference based discrimination, and there still are vestiges of that, but government is not the solution. In fact, government often institutionalizes racism/sexism/homophobia.

    All just off the top of my head.

    All the best to Team Monds!

  52. Robert Capozzi

    GE: Not revisionism! We need to leave the lies in history books alone! Capozzi, you are such a sickening toady for the state.

    Me: I love you, too, my man!

    Erik has elaborated on my vague recollections of LotS. I used the term “revisionism” euphemistically. Obviously, history books are replete with incomplete and one-sided accounts of the past. I’m all for challenging conventional history.

    There is an element within the “secession” movement that seems to twist history in ways that I don’t buy and which often has racist overtones. I prefer to distance myself and L-ism generally from that element, even in cases where they may be correct or may seem to be pro liberty. LotS seems to be one such organization that I prefer to distance myself, although, in this specific case of the Monds campaign, I see a tactical opportunity in speaking to them.

    What you do is your business based on your opinions. I’m sticking with mine until they seem contra-indicated.

  53. G.E.

    Yes, I am a “closet Republican” anarchist. Thanks for exposing me Geib.

  54. G.E.

    Geib – And why would a closet Republican like the LotS, anyway? The Republican Party was founded on principals anathema to the best of the Souths’ traditions. Not white supremacy, mind you, which was a prime component of the Grand Old Party from day-one. I hate the Republican Party, which has been evil since its inception. The LotS, like the Confederacy, has a couple of things unforgivably wrong — but at least it has a few things right.

  55. G.E.

    More about Monds: I’ll be interested to see how the bourgeois neocontarians get behind his candidacy. He looks like a tremendously credible candidate — much more than that plutocratic voucher-loving doofus from N.C. that everyone was so excited about in 2008.

  56. Robert Capozzi

    GE, I assume you’re referring to Munger. The only person I know who was involved in the Munger campaign was Susan Hogarth, Chair of the Radical Caucus. Is she a “bourgeois neocontarian”?

    More importantly, do you keep a litmus test and list of “real” Ls and faux (in your book) Ls?

    Maybe you can share those with us, so we know what side we’re on….;-)

  57. G.E.

    Here’s an easy one: if you advocate the government buying “toxic assets” to clear the balance sheets of Federal Reserve member banks, you are NOT a libertarian. Munger failed on many issues before that, of course, such as his support for vouchers and his slavish pandering to the parasite mind-poisoners of public schools, but his statements in favor of the bailouts were solid confirmation of his “faux-ness.”

    Of course I wasn’t talking about Susan. It seemed that Munger was elevated to prime status on the LP web site (maybe I’m remembering it wrong), and he was THE candidate — even though there were MUCH more deserving candidates, such as Scotty Boman, and many others for lower-level offices.

  58. Ross Levin

    Haha, I have no bone in this fight but GE is about as far from the typical Republican as you can get!

  59. Mr. Coffee

    If you feed Seagraves’ ego, you are a stalwart of liberty. If you do not pay Seagraves the attention he craves, you are a neocon. It’s really not all that complicated!

  60. G.E.

    If you feed Seagraves’ ego, you are a stalwart of liberty. If you do not pay Seagraves the attention he craves, you are a neocon. It’s really not all that complicated!

    You are feeding my ego big time by using a pseudonym, Mr. Coffee. You are a true stalwart of liberty!

  61. Erik Geib

    “The LotS, like the Confederacy, has a couple of things unforgivably wrong — but at least it has a few things right.”

    This is still not a credible defense in my mind. I still view this as the equivalent of a limited government type who denies the Holocaust happened. Politically savvy racism and outright racism aren’t much different in my mind.

    And if you can’t understand how the Republican Party has evolved (though is still evil, to that which I agree) enough for me to passingly say you *sound* like a closet Republican (southern, present “socially conservative” republicans), then there’ s little more I can say on this that’s worth anyone’s while.

  62. Robert Capozzi

    GE, I sure hope Monds doesn’t ever wander off the GE-defined reservation. You’re likely to unleash a barrage of name-calling that I’ve not heard since I was on the playground when I was 8.

    Munger is a man with great credibility as Dean of Poly Sci at Duke. He’s a public choice economist, as I recall. Some economists consider “least bad” options, and perhaps something along the lines he suggests was least bad…hard to say. I can say I was reflexively against TARP, but had there been massive bank failures, FDIC would have failed, too. That could have been a supremely grim outcome except perhaps for survivalists.

    Munger ran for governor, and TARP wasn’t a state issue, as I’m sure you know.

    Personally, I don’t think dualistic absolutism is politics, but rather, it’s theorizing…poorly so, IMO.

    I will be curious if Peter Schiff actually runs for Senate, actually wins, and actually continues to toe the absolutist line. Even Ron Paul doesn’t. The real world gets rather complicated sometimes.

  63. Susan Hogarth

    The only person I know who was involved in the Munger campaign was Susan Hogarth, Chair of the Radical Caucus.

    That’s ‘triumvir’, not ‘chair’, to you, bub.

  64. Susan Hogarth

    Munger ran for governor, and TARP wasn’t a state issue, as I’m sure you know.

    It wasn’t an issue AT ALL during that campaign period.

  65. Robert Capozzi

    Susan, sorry, I’d not heard of your change in title. Does “founder” — as it says on Wikipedia — work? I admit I’ve never heard of the term “triumvir,” so I’d prefer to not use it.

    And, just for accuracy’s sake, you WERE involved in the (accursed, according to GE, apparently) Munger campaign, yes? If so, have you repudiated Munger for his GE-reported transgression? Do you guys have wartime tribunals for such things?

  66. a different paul

    Steven: “But the story becomes a “man bites dog” story when presented as a ‘black candidate speaks to allegedly racist group’.”

    And they say Libertarians can’t be let out in public…

    So, Steven, basically you’re saying the LP candidate should accept this invitation, and then the party he represents should put out a release calling the group that invited the candidate a bunch of racists.

    Um, okay. Hopefully you aren’t on the communications committee.

  67. Ross Levin Post author

    In defense of GE, the world is not black and white. Even if someone (or a government) is racist, there can be good things about that person/government.

  68. Robert Capozzi

    diff paul, no, what you say on 80 is contra-indicated. what could work is to ID the Lots in its own code words.

    the contrast speaks for itself. Decoding code without actually decoding the code. 😉

  69. Rocky Eades

    mdh @ #63 – Hell Matt, if I don’t expect to break at least 3 laws a day, I might as well not get out of bed; I’ll still break a couple.

  70. G.E.

    Yeah, and the LotS is “off the reservation” for its racial collectivism. I never said it wasn’t. If there was a group that all thought like Munger — say, the Stato Institute — then sure, John Monds or Scotty Boman or whoever, should talk to them. And the LotS. And whoever else that wants to hear the message. That was my point.

    Interesting how Capozzi uses the term “off the reservation” a lot. As if it’s a bad thing. He wants us all to be ON reservations.

  71. Susan Hogarth

    Susan, sorry, I’d not heard of your change in title.

    ‘Triumvir’ is a joke. Ask Holtz. And buy a dictionary; grow a little. I had to look it up, so you should too.

    I have no title. I’m just a mouthy b****.

    Yes, I worked with Munger’s campaign. Yes, I disagree with him on many issues. It’s hard to hold a tribunal against the guy who’s buying the beer and is such a shameless (and skilled) flatterer as Mike is.

    Oh, no; I’ve been co-opted! And at such a cheap price, too. Buy me a beer and call me clever, and I’m your gal.

    Seriously – I disagree with Mike on a lot, and it makes for interesting conversation. In my little private game of ‘first against the wall when the revolution comes’, though, Mike doesn’t even make the Top 2000. Plus, he’s got more guns than I do!

    Disregard that bit about ‘private game’. I have no such list. Really!

  72. mdh

    No one to pass to right now. My buddy who’s over here is in the midst of DUI classes which involve random screenings. 🙁

  73. Rocky Eades

    lg, mdh – Don’t you know you’re making Libertarians look like nutjobs and junkies? Stop that! Don’t you know that the proper way to present the Libertarian position on drug laws is: “We don’t think that the government should prohibit the use of some drugs – but maybe not all drugs. Lord knows this doesn’t mean that we suggest that people should actually use drugs, except maybe for medicinal purposes with the permission of a state accredited physician. We aren’t nutjobs, after all; because we are a mainstream political party, we do think that the government should, in certain cases, be given the authority to protect people from self-harmful behavior, which we completely agree drug use to be.”

  74. mdh

    Rocky, maybe for some… but you should meet some of us state party folks. Local yokels. We’re a much different breed. 😉

  75. mdh

    He’s allergic to the cat and to our cigarette smoke. 🙁

    I offered to let him stay here. Maybe if we fundraise enough for our petition drive, he can earn enough money petitioning here to buy a laptop. Think about it.

  76. Steven R Linnabary

    a different paul: If you had bothered to read what I had written, you would see I wouldn’t use those exact words, but something that makes the media sit up and take notice.

    Actually, I am sure that the local media are well aware of LotS reputation, so a news release stating the obvious probably would be redundant.

    I still think it would make a good “man bites dog” story.

    PEACE

  77. Robert Capozzi

    GE, actually, my take on reservations — “correct positions,” if you prefer — is that I would never expect another person and I to agree on everything always. Most things most of the time’d be nice.

    I voted for Bob Barr. I’d vote for Ron Paul if I lived in his district. I’d vote for Mike Munger if I lived in NC. I’d even probably vote for you if I lived in your district, though I’d suggest you lose all your seeming hostility to those who don’t agree with you always. None of them do I agree with always. On a few things, I disagree strongly, but all of the above earn my vote because they all want more liberty and less coercion.

    Guess I’m easy…like Susan. 😉

  78. Robert Capozzi

    Susan, I assumed correctly that triumvir is related to triumvirate, which I had heard. I tend to avoid using terms that are new to me, as my vocab’s pretty big as it is. If I’ve not heard it before, it’s likely too obscure. Just a rule of thumb I have.

    But, OK, you’ve no title with the Radical Caucus. I might refer to you in the future as lower case “a founder” or “a leader” unless you object.

    By your description, I’m liking Munger more and more…a natural pol…we need MORE of those!

  79. Cork

    The LP has been pissing me off lately, but I’m quite impressed with this guy!

  80. Cork

    G.E.,

    Uh oh. Alert the LNC HQ — there’s a REAL libertarian running for office. Quick, demonize him!

    LOL! I wouldn’t be surprised.

  81. Robert Capozzi

    Yes, Monds is looking like a GREAT candidate! His speech was good. I’d like to see him get a bit more animated and to pick up the pace a bit.

    Is that his family behind him? They are beautiful!

    Particularly as an African-American, a community disproportionately affected by our insane drug laws, I found his message appropriate and well put (i.e., non-threatening).

    2012’s a long way away, but if Monds continues on this path, he could well be a most excellent national ticket topper!

  82. Tomcat

    Just imagine how great a national candidate he would make if we can get him into the Governor’s Mansion here in Georgia for a couple of terms 😉

  83. robert capozzi

    tc, of course it’d be great. be careful in setting expectations, though.

  84. Tomcat

    Yeah, I’m not. Dreaming is more like it.

    In all honesty, we’re just praying for 20%. If Monds can get that, we’ve got ballot access for anything in the state, and that’s a pretty good consolation prize for us!

  85. a different paul

    Tomcat – even 20 percent might be pie in the sky. It really depends whether his earlier 33 percent was mostly people voting for him, or mostly people voting against the other guy.

    In a two-way race between a major party candidate and a third-party/independent candidate, I think a lot of voters will register their frustration by voting against the major party candidate – knowing its a futile, inconsequential action because that candidate will eventually win. They just don’t want him to win by tooooo much.

    A better question perhaps is how many people in that 33 percent could tell you Monds name five minutes after leaving the polling place?

    Hopefully a lot, but I wouldn’t blindly assume that.

  86. G.E.

    One potential problem, though: Monds’s “About” page is curiously silent about what he’s done for a living for the past 26 years. I know he’s a stay-at-home dad now (that’s great), but he wasn’t married until 1998. What did he do from 1983 to 1998? His volunteer activities are admirable, but it’s kind of weird that his professional life is not mentioned.

  87. a different paul

    Doesn’t hurt him right now, G.E. But if he does gain some traction, he’ll obviously have to transition from obscurity to regular candidate.

  88. robert capozzi

    wouldn’t it be wonderfully ironic if Monds had been a community organizer?

  89. a different paul

    Okay, I’ll take a look at provide my griping review, lol.

    What’s with the butterflies? That’s the first thing I noticed. Not completely weird, but a little bit so.

    Good looking guy in a suit that actually looks like it was tailored for him. Nice.

    Looks like a functional website, too, and easy to find your way around. One thing I like is the donate button is flashing in your face, but that’s probably a bad thing.

    Onto the tabs. And since we’re talking about the ‘about,’ why in the world would anyone mention an out of state high school? That’s just amateurish. Not only is it a weird bit of over-information, but it highlights that Monds isn’t from Georgia. Drop it and just go with the college reference.

    Yeah, the volunteer activities and membership in organizations show someone who is involved – great – but there’s a gaping hole as to what this guy does for a living… or has ever done for a living, other than marrying a doctor.

    Issues, Georgia Budget: good pick of an issue, but… “The Republicrats that Georgia voters have put in office have continued to fail us.” Amateurish. A serious candidate doesn’t play little kid games with the names of opposing parties, and a smart candidate doesn’t highlight the fact the the voters he’s trying to attract are the ones who screwed up. I don’t like the “it doesn’t take a genius” line, either. Doesn’t sound professional.

    Government’s Role: first line sounds whining. Rest needs some work, I think. Can’t pinpoint why, but in general John should hire a writer to take a look at things like this.

    Transportation: focuses on congestion, when I’m guessing that’s a localized problem, and mostly in Atlanta (though not from the state, so just guessing). Sure, I’m glad he’s not going to raise taxes to fix it, but if I’m out in the country I get the idea that he’s an urban focused candidate.

    Equal Access: NO!!! If I was a Georgian, I am not wasting my vote for governor on just an effort to prevent third party volunteers from having to petition in the future. Those couple of sentences seem to give soooo much unintended information away. First and foremost, John himself probably doesn’t see himself as a serious candidate, who is running to win the office. His run is most likely about building his party and not out of his concern for these issues and the Georgians they affect. As true as those statements might be, you can’t let people know that.

    Seriously, get that one down before someone else reads it.

  90. Bryan

    Ok…the butterflies MUST GO!

    Frankly when I saw the page…it looked nice…but when I went into content….I had a much better site for my town council race…In a very small town…

    He needs to work on this…BIG TIME

  91. mdh

    If Starchild ran for office, in SF, he could get away with butterflies on his campaign page. An old guy in a suit running for governor of Georgia, not so much.

  92. sunshinebatman

    I’m sure he was doing something totally innocent during that missing time…

    CPA?
    rodeo clown?
    working microfinance for the Ford Foundation?

    raising butterflies maybe…

  93. G.E.

    ut there’s a gaping hole as to what this guy does for a living… or has ever done for a living, other than marrying a doctor.

    That’s what I said, but come to think of it, marrying a doctor = good strategy!

  94. a different paul

    I kind of think not a lot of effort should go into a campaign website. They don’t win you elections, as only a small percentage of voters ever will go there – and most of those are already supporters of that candidate.

    But any reporter who writes about the candidate will go there for research. Any opponent who is worried about the candidate will have staffers regularly checking to see what’s there.

    Its a box to check, and while checking the website you don’t want it to beg additional questions. Assuming anyone cares to notice, those side-questions just suck the oxygen out of the candidate’s intended message. Every candidate only gets so much air – and you don’t want it used up on questions like: Did you ever have a job? Are you just trying for 20 percent? What’s up with the butterflies?

  95. VOTE LIBERTARIAN

    I DON”T AGREE WITH TOLL ROADS ANYMORE THEN I AGREE WITH PAYING BY THE MILAGE. I think that you can’t have total libertarian. I am a libertarian leaning conservative. There are some things, minor things that should not change. Except get rid of the Liberal socialist.

  96. Third Party Revolution

    We here at Third Party Revolution endorse John Monds in his campaign for Governor of Georgia, along with many other third party and independent candidates for public offices nation-wide, ranging from local to federal levels.

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