David F. Nolan, founding member of the Libertarian Party and creator of the “Nolan Chart,” discusses his reasons for running for US Senate from Arizona (on a site named after said chart):
I was not originally planning to run, but the thought of going up against John McCain — and some hapless Democrat — eventually proved irresistible. McCain embodies almost everything that is wrong with our political system. He’s been in the Senate for 24 years, he’s out of touch with his constituents, he’s bad on almost every issue you can think of, and he’s just a nasty, arrogant man.
@77: What? Dr Donald Grundmann is headed for prison??? WITH ALL THOSE HOMOSEXUALS???
Ok, just wondered as I see that some of the things we see eye to eye on, and I just like to know people who are mostly on the same page and sometimes you can connect to others and blah blah blah. I completely understand on the privacy. What I found that some people who you think you can talk to, that are not on the same page will run with things to make a person look worse than it actually is and they don’t have a clue about the person. Who is about and whom the person knows and etc. But some things are best left unsaid, and hopefully whatever is shared is kept private.
Robert Milnes- Nope. I just consider the source.
New Federalist, does it bend you out of shape when I say Ron Paul is a dinosaur fossil prick?
[a] as uncomfortable as I am with anonymous and or semi anonymous posters [Libertarian Girl, ‘paulie’] be aware *personal experience* that I have friends and family between jobs or houses and they know that the powers that be DO GOOGLE YOU!
So be your own best friend, and as much as I admire Cody Quirk’s and Doctor Donald J. Grundmann’s honesty and courage —— if I were a potential employer or loan officer I would sure ‘fall out of my chair’ after reading ’bout them and of them!
But hey, Grundmann is headed for Corcoran [California State Prison] or Leavenworth, any way!
[b] are you a Californian ??????
[c] CP ????????? The &#%$@$# national CP ?????????? Call me, any time, 619.420.0209
Nope to the website and yes to the libertarian. I consider myself either a constitutional libertarian or a libertarian constitutionalist. That is what I define as a NewFederalist which is why I use that moniker. While I don’t use my name online for privacy reasons I joined the LP in 1974 and resigned in 1985. I also regularly contribute to the CP but I always refuse the membership card they send me as I used to do with the LP until they stopped sending them. Thanks for your interest but I can assure you I am nobody special.
Do you have a website? Are you a libertarian?
I contribute to help support alternative parties. I have been a candidate in the past but not in the past 26 years.
Are you running for anything or do you just help with the party?
he talking rhetorically lol
“I can spend up to 5000 of my personal funds on my campaign before having to file with FEC.”
That’s a joke, right? I thought you said you were so poor you couldn’t even pay attention!
Like I said on 62 & before. If you want to try to win in 2010 & set up 2012, you better make some noise & rattle some cages soon-NOW!
A good start would be to go to my website
http://milnes2008.freeservers.com/ & click the donations button.
I can spend up to 5000 of my personal funds on my campaign before having to file with FEC.
Response to your last sentence. No thanks. You can find a nice ranch somewhere more your speed.
To Mr. Milnes, I’m not interested in anything Wayne has to say. Yet IPR comments flood with Root comments every time his minions engineer a way on. For example.
& notice how often HE deigns to comment here? Once I saw. & it was comment & it’s late, good night. I’ve seen many a comment very late at night with no mention of it as to say don’t expect commenter to reply again.
Anybody with any sense knows what I write is my opinion. All are free to react as they will. Just like anybody else’s comments.
So fuck you.
quit pushing your views on other people. Some of us are not interested.
Kevin, you should care about the Green party in Ohio because neither party has enough wherewithall to win.
Ohio may be the heart of it all but it is not all that.
True the LP is doing better than GP in Ohio.But generally the LP does better than the GP in several areas. DESPITE the fact that The Libertarian Vote is about 1/2 the Green vote which makes it about 1/3 the overall inclusive progressive/libertarian vote.
The LP & GP are like Siamese twins. Sure they want their individuality, but they are inseparately linked. Winning an election would be like a pole vault. They better get coordinated & try together at once, or they are not going anywhere.
Why do I care about the Green Party in Ohio? The LP has distanced itself from all other minor parties in Ohio to be the true “alternative” to the major parties from the 19th century. We may still be in the AA-league, but the other minor parties are in A-league or development stage.
Frankly, the LP in Ohio has taken the lead for ballot access and the other parties are riding our coat tails. So just why would I want to delute the LP message in Ohio, when we are growing in membership, funds, and candidates. In fact, we had more people register for the LP in Ohio than all the other minor parties combined in the recent Ohio primary. I believe in free-market principles and it applies to political parties. If they can build an organization, fundraise, field viable and articulate candidates, and be taken seriously, more power to them.
Interesting challenge. Actually one of Tom K.’s criticisms of my campaign is that he thinks my positions-personal platform as it were, was not acceptable to either progressives or libertarians.
One thing about progressivism is that it does not endorse socialism. One of its vulnerabilities is that the reactionaries accused progressives of being commies or aiding/abetting or accepting assistance/guidance from the Communist Party. Of course Teddy Roosevelt in 1912 was invulnerable to that; it was mostly in the 1924 & esp. 1948 elections.
I vill a little tink.
Milnes, here’s a challenge for you.
Let’s see if you’re serious about this PLAS of yours — serious enough to do a little work on it.
Here’s my challenge: You are to draft a detailed political, economic, and foreign policy platform that would excite (or at least be acceptable to) both Libertarians and Greens.
There won’t be a PLAS without a platform, vision, goal, doctrine, philosophy — whatever you want to call it — that pleases both socialist progressives and free market libertarians.
Care to rise to my challenge and draft such a platform?
Like I said, if you want to try PLAS this election cycle, you’d better speak up. Not just here at IPR. The cndidates, the parties, etc. November is coming quick.
Milnes: “As soon as you do not then take my advice, I’m gone.”
Nobody is ever taking your advice here. Can you be gone?
Michael H. Wilson, why, thank you for your huge comment.
Point taken.
& I take it that you are dedicated activist what with going out collecting signatures? Not necessarily if it being done for pay which Dondero & paulie have described as somewhat lucrative. But on the other hand you have made the further point that not all available ballots have been filled.
So my first suggestion would be a biparty effort to determine where the remaining available ballots are & getting on & candidates for ALL of them.
Simultaneously the other priority is educating voters about this new strategy.So maybe trying a combo GOTV/registration/education by knocking on doors. & setting up booths outside party offices & high pedestrian/people areas?
& all candidates hve websites & do videos & tv.
& we don’t focus on the issues. The priority focus should be on the strategy & how we are going for a close plurality upset victory. Get the potential voters informed & involved at least to the extent that they have an idea of what’s going on & what’s expected of them. To actually be registered & actually know which ballot to vote for. Especially where there is mix & match.
Okay Milnes with this PLAS what do you recommend for mailings and door to door strategy? How many mailings should we do?
Any particular place to purchase printing services?
How about yard signs?
And what specific issues should be the focus?
Do we do the traditional door hanger or would a newspaper type hand out be more effective?
Where do we get the walking maps if we decide to do door to door?
And what do you think they’ll costs?
What form of media advertising should we do?
Is TV better or websites?
Should the focus be on the candidate or the issues?
Or do we do a mix?
If so what percentage of each makes up the mix?
Just for starters. I have to go collect signatures this morning. I can ask more later if you wish.
Thanks,
You guys are to blame for not presenting to the 40% something they can sink their teeth into. Nader/Gonzles-lame. Not fusion ticket. No downticket slate. McKinney/Clemente-lame. Barr/Root-lame. Gravel/Ruwart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Had possibilities. Fusion ticket. Plenty of downticket Libs complemented by Greens. Milnes/Ruwart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bingo. Because unlike Gravel & Ruwart, Milnes knows what he is doing.
The first few PLAS campaigns will probably satrt out as the usual-upper single digits. However with the first few press conferences called with cause-one candidate withdrawing & endorsing the other e.g. the next one should spike-lower double digits. Upon reaching 15%-threshold for debates-press conference. @20%, that is msm type press conference & subsequent spike.
All this is possible because of the vast untapped reservoir of potential sympathetic progressive & libertarian voters. 40%. They are starving for a viable candidate & slate.
LOL.
Except I’m serious.
“A press conference at each climb in polls of 5%.”
I’d recommend a press conference after each 1% rise in the polls. That provides the potential for five times as many press conferences. The additional press conferences might in turn produce positive feedback to further speed up the climb in the polls. Eventually that could generate such a media feeding frenzy that several press conferences a day would need to be scheduled.
The only danger would be peaking too early and hitting the maximum 100% level long before election day. The press conferences would then have to stop, since there’d be no more 1% increases. The resulting lack of press conference publicity would exacerbate the sudden lack of positive momentum, which in turn could cause a catastrophic plunge in the polls all the way down to 0%.
The subsequent turn-around after hitting rock bottom would likely be aborted before the polling numbers could rise back up to more than 1% or 2%, due to the arrival of the actual election. The election results would end up being indistinguishable from those of a typical minor party finish, making the impact of Robert’s assistance impossible to quantify.
A press conference at each climb in polls of 5%.
“I want lots of press conferences followed by polling.”
Two old sayings come to mind:
1) People in hell want icewater, too.
2) Want in one hand, shit in the other, see which one gets full first.
Don’t get me wrong. I would rely on your crew for local info etc & probably usually agree. But if I disagree, my advice must get priority. If you want to run a PLAS campaign & try to win. If you are just kickin it, or trifling, etc., count me out.
I would be glad to listen to your crew. Then give you my advice. As soon as you do not then take my advice, I’m gone.
OK. You are going to lose.
Good luck!
Yes. There are few ballots this cycle in my district. There is already a Green for U.S. Rep. Lt. Gov. was available-only a rep on the ballot. But deadline passed June 8.
How are you listed on the ballot? Libertarian, Independent, What?
If you are the Lib., fine. Use the word frequently on your website.
If you are libertarian Independent & there is no Lib, same.
If there is a Lib, then you & the Lib need to talk about which will withdraw & endorse the other at a press conference.
If there is Green, same.
You then campaign with former candidate that has endorsed you whenever possible.
You actively campaign for the inclusive libertarian vote. And the inclusive progressive vote. Your district is small enough that you try to reach EVERY voter, educating them about PLAS.
I want lots of press conferences followed by polling.
Robert, I appreciate the offer, but I already have a crew assembled with local knowledge up here that I’ve known for years and trust helping me with my campaign. Since County Commissioner is fundamentally a local campaign and since people in Washoe County are somewhat sensitive to out-of-state influence in local politics (we’re next to California, after all), I’m going to stick to my locally assembled crew and let them take me where they can.
I appreciate the offer, though. Have you thought about applying your strategies personally in a local campaign?
I notice that you do not use the l word on your website. Kind of like Wayne, are we?
David, first, if you want me to help you win, you must listen to me; no one else except yourself-after you listen to me, ok?
Now, Washoe County Commissioner. I’ve been to Reno many times. But I am concerned that after we win, somebody will say-yeah but he would’ve won anyway.
So, what is your polling NOW?
cont.
Thomas – Understood. I just kept seeing that acronym everywhere and it was bugging me that I couldn’t search for it to find what it stood for. Now that I know, I may read in peace.
PLAS is passe… PSLA is the new way!!
tk, the AS actually stand for “Alchemy & Synergy.”
David,
Ah, but you’re missing the ellipses in Bob’s PLAS!
Remember the Underpants Gnomes’ formula?
1. Collect underpants.
2. …
3. Profits!
The PLAS formula is:
1. Add the 1% LP vote and the 1% Green vote.
2. …
3. Plurality!
Bob’s pretty refuses to tell us what magical formula behind those ellipses will make 1+1=34, but I’m sure he’s just being coy.
Ah – see, the trouble here is that, where I live, the Green Party is even less active than the Libertarian Party (my affiliation). Working together with the Greens, my vote totals might go up a percentage point or two. Worse yet, my county is not *quite* the conservative anchor of Nevada, but it definitely leans more conservatively than anything. As it stands, the only way most Democrats get very far up here is if they largely ape GOP talking points.
Where I live, working with the IAPN/Constitutionalists is probably a more viable strategy, if you can imagine that. They’re wildly active out here.
David Colborne, Progressive Libertarian Alliance Strategy.
Vote & ballot coordination by the GP & LP.
I see your link to campaign website. I formulated an approximation of your positions. But it would help for you to state 1. your ballot description-Independent, Third party, etc., 2. identification-tea party, progressive, Green, Libertarian, Independent centrist etc.
From that I think I can tell you whether I can help you win or not.
OMFG David , now you’ve done it! 🙂 LOL
and they now have a nearly 12 month vehicle ready road to the rest of the world ………..
“… PLAS has evolved. If it is given a fair try & fails, I’m outta here. & good riddance to you all. I’ll enjoy the solitude of the Yukon.”
I hear Dawson City is lovely at Christmas.
Milnes – At the risk of opening a gigantic can of pre-cooked worms, what is “PLAS”?
JT, my take on The Libertarian Vote is that 7% of The Libertarian Vote of 20% is potential crossover. That’s a lot. About 35%.
PLAS could work in AZ just about like anywhere else.
GP, noticed? Why, yes, there have been pro-life Ls for 40 years!!!!
Perhaps you characterize a pro-life L as a “religious rightist.” Interesting view, since I know atheist Ls who are pro-life.
You again sidestep the issue. Perhaps you use the term “religious right” in ways that differ from the common usage, which involves several issues, not just life/choice.
jt, gp’s ability to make oblique statements that require much interpretation seems frequent, even the default position.
In this case, my guess is the pivotal clause is “thanks to the market….” IOW, thanks to the market going down, no one will be rich, therefore everyone will be, regardless of party.
Tortured speculation IMO, if my Philloglyphics read is close to accurate.
Of course, even if the market goes down, some can make money through shorts and puts.
No, I got out of politics about 30 years ago; I could do it again.
I got back in to try to win. From that PLAS has evolved. If it is given a fair try & fails, I’m outta here. & good riddance to you all. I’ll enjoy the solitude of the Yukon.
Ive noticed Libertarians who want to move us in a conservative direction , none of which are overtly religious . I think using the term religious right is disingenuous
If you haven’t noticed any Libertarians who want us to advance by moving in the antiabortion direction, the states rights on abortion direction, or other variations on this theme, I probably can’t help you.
who says we should become the party of the religious right??
Milnes: “If David Nolan was a leader worth voting for, he would try PLAS.”
Again, Arizona is a largely conservative state. Even if your PLAS strategy wasn’t dumb–which it is–there’s no benefit to a Libertarian joining forces with a Green there. Fortunately, Libertarians can appeal to both left AND right, unlike Greens.
Phillies: “And for the people who attack us as the party of the rich, well, thanks to the market, that’s where everyone is going to be in due time.”
What does this mean? That everyone is going to be in the party of the rich? Or that everyone is going to be rich? Both claims obviously aren’t true.
clarifying, of COURSE there are — and always have been — Ls that want to associate more with conservatives. The term “religious right” connotes for me Moral Majority, prayer in the schools, religious displays in public places, and of course pro-life. I can’t think of any Ls who want to see the LP move in that narrow, contra-indicated direction.
Of course, there are also people of faith in the LP who have understandably felt that the party leans in an ANTI-religious direction, which for a number of reasons is an obvious non-starter.
gp: The people who are saying we should become a party of the religious right…
me: Strawman point of information. Who says this?
It is likely McCain will be the R nominee. He is not as vulnerable as was, say, Arlen Specter, who changed political parties in order to be elected and had his opponent use a clip of him saying that in advertisements.
Mr. Nolan will have to work on his name recognition, and he is probably in the best position of anyone in the LP to do that. Handing out Nolan Charts will serve a double purpose.
Demographics and our party positions:
Read
http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2010/06/pdf/voter_demographics.pdf
another analysis by Ruy Teixera and colleagues. The part about what the Republicans should do is based on the *anything to win* rather than the *convert them to follow you* doctrine of politics, but the rest is very clear.
The decidedly non-Christian and non-believing population is increasing far faster than our ability to recruit them, ditto the socially liberal factions. The people who are saying we should become a party of the religious right, well, they are that rare case to paraphrase Churchill of rats seen swimming toward a sinking ship. They ought not be followed.
And for the people who attack us as the party of the rich, well, thanks to the market, that’s where everyone is going to be in due time.
I doubt you would move on, your addicted.
Matt Cholko, DEAL!
Somebody give it a fair try. Then when it succeeds or comes close enough to raise eyebrows, like TR’s 27% in 1912, I won’t need to shut up.
But, if a fair try fails, I’ll move on. & good riddance to you all.
I wish somebody would try Milnes’ PLAS plan. Then, when it fails, maybe he will shut up………well, he probably won’t.
John Jay Meyers, are you totally oblivious as to how #6 comment is completely contrary to the radicals’ position on immigration?
Yeah, thanks for running, David. McCain & I could use a good laugh.
Another would be to campaign together, like Cobb & Bad’n.
Thane, as soon as that ballot is on, the Lib & Green are guaranteed losers. First thing I would say to Nolan-get together with the Green candidate & agree which continues & which withdraws at a press conference & endorses the other. That would be a part of PLAS. The other would be to educate the voters-libertarians & progressives vote for the one on the ballot.
Thank you for running David.
@6 Dan Wiener thank you for a post worth reading.
We are lucky to have people like you and David Nolan.
What if J.D. Hayworth wins the Republican primary? Then Nolan will have to change one of his talking points, about going against the head of the Republican Party.
I am looking forward to being present for the Democrat/Republican/Libertarian/Green contest for US Senate in Arizona.
” [Arid Zona’s] McCain embodies almost everything that is wrong with our political system. He’s been in the Senate for 24 years, he’s out of touch with his constituents, he’s bad on almost every issue you can think of, and he’s just a nasty, arrogant man ……….”
and a horrible, horrible military ‘leader’! Naval Accademy, air craft carrier blaze, ‘Song Bird’ of Hanio Hilton ………..
obamaimpeachment.org
impeachobamacampaign.com
……… the only ‘change’ Don Lake has found with Obama, my Yokohoma Momma, is the loose coinage in the sofa cushions!
No, no, no, you SHOULD be the Crummongen and Chief’s poker pal and bestest bud! Forget competance. Job security via butt kissing!
Obama, my Yokohoma Momma, and first black Prez to be impeached!
Has Nolan pledged to object to the 2012 electoral college vote if they hand the office to a Panamanian citizen or British subject?
Or does he support foreign dictatorship and usurpation?
How about doing something out of the ordinary. Say you will work for less money than your opponent, maybe that might get people attention.
Tell the people you won’t fly and live at the expense of the tax payer if you get elected. How many of these other politicians are willing to do that. NOOOO of course not. They want comfort on our dime.
Dave, since Arizona seems to be ground-zero in the country’s immigration debate, I hope you can utilize the soapbox of your Senate race to turn that to the advantage of libertarians. I’ve ranted on the subject before, so for what it’s worth I’m reprinting my rant below:
The immigration issue is a great opportunity to put forth a libertarian solution which will be popular and which will also begin to erode the welfare state. Unsponsored immigrants should be denied all access to government-paid non-emergency services.
This means no welfare of any kind, no public education, no health services (except true medical emergencies, and then only until the medical condition is stabilized so the person can go elsewhere), no social security, no access to the civil courts, etc. As a result immigrants will no longer be perceived by the general public as constituting a significant burden, while the “free-loading” financial incentive to come to this country will be eliminated.
Then anyone who still undertakes the effort of uprooting himself and moving to this country is far more likely to be motivated by the desire to live in a freer society where individual advancement and accomplishment is possible. And most people already living here will have no objection to that kind of immigrant, be he initially rich or poor, skilled or unskilled, legal or even “illegal”.
However, there is a reasonable intuition that there are hundreds of millions (if not billions) of impoverished people in the world who would love to flood into this country and take advantage of a welfare state which provides a better standard of living than the upper-middle classes enjoy in most other countries. Since that is financially unsupportable, the general public in this country will reject open borders and unlimited immigration under the existing circumstances.
The ramifications of cutting off unsponsored immigrants from government-paid welfare and other services are that they will have to turn to non-government alternatives. That means private schools and private charities and privately paid medical care. In the long run immigrants will actually be better off for doing so. Just as importantly, it will demonstrate to the rest of the country that it is possible to do without government services, and that dismantling the welfare state is a practical and desirable option.
Note, by the way, that I limit the above to “unsponsored” immigrants. What we now call a “legal” immigrant should become what I call a “sponsored” immigrant, i.e., someone who has been sponsored by people already living in this country who agree to cover that immigrant’s living costs and educational costs and medical costs for an adequate period of time (say 15 or 20 years) if the immigrant is unable to do so. This could be accomplished via bonds or insurance policies. Again, it has the effect of eliminating both the perception and reality that those immigrants could freeload on the existing population.
Immigration is a wedge issue, and libertarians are in the unique position of being able to drive the wedge in the correct direction to cleave apart the welfare state while at the same time opening our country to immigrants who will enhance our society and our heritage of liberty and individual rights.
PLAS is passe… PSLA is the path to victory!
You give us hope, David.
Hey, that’s Obama’s gift!
The Nolan will lose-spectacularly!
If David Nolan was a leader worth voting for, he would try PLAS.
You give us hope, David!
This could be one of the most important campaigns for Libertarians this year. Dave Nolan, founding member of The Libertarian Party, is challenging the titular head of the Republican Party.
Arizona is a state with many people who believe in limited government, as exemplified by native son Barry Goldwater. Sen McCain’s support for many big government programs – No Child Left Behind, the Patriot Act, and the Iraq War – all show that he does not represent the small government beliefs of Arizona voters.
If you believe in free speech, send a contribution to Dave Nolan, who is challenging the lead author ofthe McCain-Feingold limitation of free speech act.
If you were ever active in The Libertarian Party, even if you have given up on it, send a contribution to Dave Nolan to thank him for organizing an alternative to the Nixon Republicans.
Most importantly, a high profile campaign in a small state can show the way for future Libertarian campaigns.
Good luck Dave on an important campaign for liberty!