The hacker group Anonymous took down the American Third Position Party’s website Tuesday and posted the following:
Fellow anons: we are pleased to bring you the dismantling of a major US-based white supremacist network known as the “American Third Position”(A3P). These racist losers have chapters across the US, operate several white power websites, forums and online stores, and are even running a candidate in the 2012 elections. Although they try hard to maintain a professional public image to camouflage their vile racism, we’re now airing all their dirty laundry all over the internet. Contained in this major dump are several thousand private forum messages, personal emails, internal organization notes, names, phone numbers, home addresses and other information on all of their members and supporters. It’s time for these cowardly suit and tie white supremacists to sleep with one eye open. Scared much?
In addition to finding the usual racist rants and interactions with other white power groups, we also found a disturbingly high amount of members who are also involved in campaigning for Ron Paul. According to these messages, Ron Paul has regularly met with many A3P members, even engaging in conference calls with their board of directors. Ron Paul’s racist politics and affiliations are already well known, being viciously anti-immigrant, anti-abortion and against gay marriage — not to mention having authored the racist “Ron Paul Papers” and receiving financial support from other white power groups (pictured with Don Black from stormfront.org). Hard to believe Ron Paul draws some support from the left and the occupation movements, especially now that it is confirmed Ron Paul hangs out with straight up racist hate groups.
We put extra effort in ruining the life of A3P webmaster Jamie Kelso. On top of being on the board of directors of A3P, former $cientologist, and high ranking Ron Paul organizer, he also is the account owner of german nazi forums and store nsl-forum.org, rhs-versand.com. We went ahead and wiped those websites off the internet as well, dumping private messages and order information. Aside from us releasing his information such as his social security number, address, resume and private discussions, we also heard some folks went on a joyride with Kelso’s credit card and made some lulzy purchases, including sex toy purchases and making donations to the Anti Defamation League and many others. Oops.
We call upon not only other antifascists but all those opposed to white supremacy to utilize this information and make hell for these white nationalist scumbags. It is essential if we wish to live in a world free from oppression to expose and confront racists at their jobs, their schools, at their homes and in the streets.
The A3P was founded in 2010 and supports white nationalism and third position politics.
The Guardian reported the hacking on Wednesday, and the IB Times and Orange County Weekly ran articles about it yesterday.
I want to clarify that A3P’s website was hacked after a Gmail account was initially hacked. A member of A3P kept confidential information about our server (hosted by Godaddy) in his email archives. This was the source of the email addresses. (On a side note, this points out the risk of maintaining private emails on a public mail host.)
And additionally, Jeremy Hammond, whom we suspect as the cyber-hacker, defaced the A3P website, stole private member information, and posted credit card numbers. The A3P was required to report the theft. Jeremy Hammond is now in Federal custody for the Strafor hack and theft of 30,000 credit card numbers. We reported him and other ARA/Antifa cyber-criminals to the FBI and Secret Service. The hackers transferred funds from our bank account (since reimbursed) to the ADL and made purchases elsewhere. Ironically, they transferred $88.00 to the ADL. Pretty cute! 88 dollars. And the ADL accepted it!
Despite the portrayal of these backdoor “script kiddies” as social heroes it turns out they are petty criminals who dislike free speech if it disagrees with their point of view. We hope Jeremy Hammond and his compatriots enjoy picking up the soap. Also, the FBI, Secret Service and other law enforcement agencies were supportive and we thank them for being so professional. We also thank the web hosts who remove the hacked member information when notified.
I’d like to invite anyone reading this to join the American Third Position party, especially if they are tired of the two dominant political parties and their policies.
Support Merlin Miller, Presidential Candidate 2012, a West Point graduate and experienced military man who served in the armed forces. Merlin Miller is a true American hero in our opinion. No one can question his patriotism! And he has four daughters who also graduated from West Point Military Academy.
RP@34,
“The constituency for ‘limited government’ in whatever form IS overwhelmingly white”
I suspect that that’s not exactly true, and the phenomenon you’re describing is something more along the lines of “the constituency for ‘limited government rhetoric as that rhetoric has traditionally been formulated’ is overwhelmingly white.”
Give me a focus group of people of various races, and I suspect that if I ask them what they understand me to mean when I say “limited government,” they’ll come up with things like lower income taxes, getting away from gun control, opposing ObamaCare, etc.
And to the extent that’s the case, I suspect you’re right that more of the white members than the black or hispanic members of that focus group will approve of “limited government.”
On the other hand, if I explain “limited government” to the non-white members in terms of ending the drug war (legalizing marijuana, getting rid of mandatory minimum sentences, especially ones that send blacks to prison for much longer than whites for the same offense, etc.), rolling back licensing schemes that keep low-income people from starting their own businesses, and so on, they’ll respond more positively.
And I know from experience that trying to convince a “conservative white Republican” that “limited government” might mean ending his non-recourse, government-guaranteed farm loans, letting him pick up his own old-age medical insurance, or not spending 23.9% of the federal budget guaranteeing his union-scale job at a “defense” plant is a great way to turn him into a froth-at-the-mouth marxoid lunatic in about 30 seconds flat.
@36 Ron Paulizzle Twenty-twizzle fo shizzle!
Ron Paul is the only major ™ pro -human candidate hence he draws support from pro /white people as well as pro /black people eg Snoop Dogg
The constituency for “limited government” in whatever form IS overwhelmingly white which is face obvious to anyone who looks.
It’s not obvious to me. Random phone polling found as much or more support for libertarian positions, broadly defined, among non-whites as among whites. I’ve found the same thing in my own (admittedly non-random, but fairly extensive) polling. It’s true that the organized libertarian constituency is rather pale.
Of course, it also depends on what you mean by white. Most white nationalists don’t consider Jews to be white, and Jews are over-represented among libertarians. Most, but not all, Jews “look white” and are classified as white by the US Census bureau among others.
White nats are not libertarian
Much as I hate to admit it, some actually are. Most, however, are not. Some adopt libertarian rhetoric to help end forced integration, but would be happy to institute forced segregation if they could.
Who do these brain-dead antifa jokers expect white nats to support, Newt Gingrich?
Why would they have to support anyone?
They might, for example, consider elections to be a liberal and/or zionist sham, and violence to be the only answer, as some of them do.
I’m not sure that the “implicitly white” terminology is very meaningful, but that the Ron Paul movement is “implicitly white” is true in the sense that the white nats mean it. They often say the same thing about the Tea Party. It would be more meaningful IMO to say it is overwhelmingly white. The constituency for “limited government” in whatever form IS overwhelmingly white which is face obvious to anyone who looks. The libs notice it and are quick to point out its homogenous nature and think it is inherently malevolent because of it. (Since most self-conscious libs are white see my self-loathing comment above.) Limited government advocates who bother to notice are aware of it too which is why they are always so desperate to point out any black or Hispanic they can find to prove they’re not racists. (If the libs are self-loather, many limited government whites are stricken with white-guilt and have internalized the narrative of their enemy.) But these few blacks and Hispanics are the exceptions that prove the rule.
White nats are not libertarian and are more than most other “rightist” elements openly critical of libertarianism and even capitalism. Many are also critical of originalist Constitutionalism because they see it as an impediment to their “third position” agenda. But is it any surprise that people who are far from the political mainstream are more likely to support a candidate who is also far from the political mainstream? That people who see the current status quo and the Powers That Be as inimitable to them would support the candidate most hostile to the current Regime? Who do these brain-dead antifa jokers expect white nats to support, Newt Gingrich? This is feigned outrage, and it is a childish rhetorical ploy. This is like the mainstream “conservatives” who feign outrage that anti-Semites support Ron Paul. Well who in the Hell do they think anti-Semites are going to support, the candidate who wants to practice neutrality toward Israel or the rest of the candidates who act as if Israel is the 51st state? Feigned outrage to score political points drives me nuts.
there is no Fascist element of any size to be anti.
There certainly is in the hardcore music scene, among other places.
They are Cultural Marxist anti-white haters.
Few, if any, of the antifa friends and acquaintances I have had hate whites. Some are marxists, but some are both anti-fascist and anti-marxist.
Since most “antifa” are white, they are self-loathers
Opposing fascism is not self-loathing unless one is a secret fascist.
They condemn as the worst of all possible thought crimes any sort of racial consciousness in whites
In Russia, where open fascists are currently more prevalent than in the west, some of my antifa friends have noted the irony of allegedly “slavic pride” boneheads constantly aping German, English and American music, fashion, etc. Many of them are big fans of Hitler, even though Hitler considered Slavs inferior.
And, there as here, many “white pride” types turn out in fact to be not so white, especially by their own definition, which is narrower than, say, that of the US Census bureau. Talk about self loathing!
Deran, the “antifa” knuckleheads are not anti-Fascist in any meaningful sense because there is no Fascist element of any size to be anti. They are Cultural Marxist anti-white haters. Since most “antifa” are white, they are self-loathers who need to spend less time thought policing and more time in therapy.
They condemn as the worst of all possible thought crimes any sort of racial consciousness in whites but take for granted as healthy and natural the same attitude in minorities. This is plain to see and cannot credibly be denied. They are not antifa. They are palpably anti-white.
Well, what are all the Paul haters waiting for?
Buried in these reports are claims that Paul met various people regularly in a public restaurant ona regular schedule. Someplace between searching schedules and bribing the bartender there are any number of journalistic paths for ascertaining whether the claims are true or even marginally possible. The paths seem not to have been exploited.
The only thing funnier that Anon’s actions are the comments in this thread.
Old people trying to understand the internet is hilarious.
The original message hacking the website, accused the anti-abortion of being racist, which is idiotic and false. Ironically Guy Fawkes, who was the inspiration of Anonymous, was a strong Catholic and definitely would have been anti-abortion himself.
Paul @24, thanks very much. I guess I thought it wasn’t important enough to go to the trouble of fixing, but it looks much better now — much appreciated.
Tom @25, good points.
JCY@20,
“Since the primary purpose here seems to have been to take down Ron Paul, doesn’t that counteract the extreme libertarianism of most Anonymous actions?”
Well, let’s unpack that.
First, why assume that the purpose of the hack was to take down Ron Paul? They may have hacked A3P for other reasons (A3P is not a very likable group) and been surprised to find so much Paul-related material.
Secondly, Anonymous is not politically monolithic. It’s possible to arrive at a number of positions which affiliation with Anonymous implies without being an ideological libertarian.
Third, while Paul enjoys a very high level of support within the ideological libertarian movement, it’s certainly not unanimous. Some libertarians don’t support him at all (I’m one of them), and that set of libertarians probably overlaps to a considerable degree with the set of libertarians one might expect to support, or be affiliated with, Anonymous (once again, c’est moi).
Fixed. You could also do that yourself.
@20 It seems to me a complete mischaracterization of “Anonymous” to suggest all persons working behind the Guy Fawkes masks as libertarian capitalists.
Again, look at any assortment of vids put out before and during OWS by people using the Anon moniker. Antiauthoritarian, yes, “libertarian capitalist”, not necessarily. And even if all Anons are “libertarians”, why wouldn’t they also be antifascist? I’m not getting the logic?
I do believe this op could be an attempt not just to smackdown the fascists, but to try and smear Pual too. The two would not be mutually exclusive to left libertarians.
I would think even people who like to watch pirated videos, and are pissed abt the shutdown of Megavideo, can be antifascist too?
@19 Yes, from what you’re saying it does not seem a false flag.
I’m not convinced that Paul is affiliated consciously with A3P-types. But I will be interested to hear what you find.
That second paragraph should be in blockquotes. I am really out of it tonight!
Here’s the message Red couldn’t post @4, from the A3P’s FB page:
The image is a Guy Fawkes mask.
Incidentally, I tend to agree with Red that these are not the same Anonymous who have been fighting for Megaupload and Wikileaks. Since the primary purpose here seems to have been to take down Ron Paul, doesn’t that counteract the extreme libertarianism of most Anonymous actions? I think Red put that rather nicely.
Deran @17,
I agree that given Anonymous’s decentralized/affinity mode of operations and its … well, its anonymity, that “false flag” stuff is always a possibility, and that any specific group doing things under the “Anonymous” umbrella will generally be operating without the approval or foreknowledge of many who consider themselves affiliated with Anonymous (like, for example, me).
Having now spent a few hours with the A3P dump, it is my considered opinion that it is a genuine unauthorized release rather than a “false flag.”
I would expect a “false flag” to include more alleged information intended to promote or damage a beneficiary or target, and less of the trivial, but verisimilitude-producing, material that I noticed.
But, once again — there’s a lot of stuff in the dump, and I’ve only read bits and pieces. I’m trying not to jump to any sweeping conclusions.
The Anonymous dump of A3P material is pretty large. I’ve been searching for various strings (“Ron Paul,” “Board of Directors,” etc.) in an effort to verify or debunk the following two claims from the Anonymous communique:
1) A “disturbingly high amount of members” of a3P “are also involved in campaigning for Ron Paul.”
This is a pretty fuzzy claim in the first place, insofar as “disturbingly high” is a subjective evaluation and “involved in campaigning for” can mean a lot of things.
What I found were several references to A3P members attending Paul campaign events; a couple of references to A3P members talking with low-level Paul volunteers whom the A3P people perceived as “with us” or “pro-White;” and one suggestion that a film/video guy who had done work for the Paul campaign be approached about doing the same kind of work for A3P.
None of the campaign events mentioned were portrayed as Paul intentionally addressing A3P-type audiences — it was stuff like “we went to see Paul speak at CPAC” and “we went to Paul’s GOP convention rally in Minneapolis” and so on.
2) “Ron Paul has regularly met with many A3P members, even engaging in conference calls with their board of directors.”
The closest thing I found to Paul “meeting” with A3P members were references like “managed to get my picture taken with Paul when I attended the Minneapolis convention rally.”
I found references to A3P’s board of directors, and I found references to conference calls, but I found no references to Paul or his campaign being involved in said conference calls.
Just because I didn’t find any evidence for these claims, that doesn’t mean they’re false — there are indeed thousands of internal forum posts, emails, etc. in the dump, and all I’ve done is run some obvious searches.
But if the evidence IS there, it’s the job of those making the claims to make it more accessible. This is not the kind of thing to just take someone’s word on.
I trust that no one will mistake me for a Paul apologist, but the picture I get from the A3P dump is this:
The A3P types consider the Paul movement, and the wider “paleo” movement (other referenced people, pubs and groups included Pat Buchanan, Thomas diLorenzo, The American Conservative, the John Birch Society, et. al), to be “implicitly pro-White” (their terminology) and are attempting to build a “bridge” (their terminology) between those movements and “explicitly pro-White” (their terminology) groups including (named in the dump) A3P, White News Network, Stormfront, et. al.
I don’t think that belief on the part of A3P types is entirely unreasonable, given that the Rothbard/Rockwell “paleo strategy” which Paul used to raise money in the 80s and 90s was intended to specifically cater to such tendencies.
On the other hand, I think the A3P types are probably
1) Under-estimating the extent to which Rothbard, Rockwell and Paul were using the “paleo strategy” to cynically exploit them — suckering them for political “seed money” and so forth — as opposed to genuinely make common cause with them; and
2) Seriously over-estimating the extent to which the now-existing Paul movement, which is not a largely a product of the “paleo strategy,” is composed of people likely to be sympathetic to the A3P-type fringe.
That’s my initial opinion, anyway, based on what I’ve mined from the Anonymous dump as it complements past discoveries (the newsletters, etc.). It doesn’t exactly make Paul look good, but neither does it lead me to suspect that he keeps a reproduction SS uniform in his closet and goose-steps back and forth across his bedroom in it when he thinks nobody is looking, or anything like that.
Various Anonymous Ops have attacked far right websites, racist websites etc in the past. From what I’ve seen Anon is a network of unaffiliated affinity groups and individuals, acting on their own, under the guise of the friendly face of Guy Fawkes.
Besides, Anonymous seems obviously antifascist. They are antiauthoritarian, and so by definition antifascist. Look at all the pro OWS vids various “Anons” put up. All critical of concentrated power, financial or state.
I wouldn’t be surprised if some anons have already set up an anti-A3P Op. Seems easy pickings.
Of course, on the other hand, a lot of what is claimed as Anon ops are exagerations, falsehoods or false flags (A3P desperate for attention so put out a fake Anon vid pretending scary anarchist Anonymous is out to get their sorry little fascist behinds).
I agree that the deleted comments were trash.
It is in fact possible for us to edit any comment, not just delete it.
I’ve done that from time to time.
Berkman was obviously correct.
It would be nice if the site had a mechanism that replaced unacceptable messages with a message from Message Deleted, so that when the virtuous editors delete a message they do not mess up numbering more than necessary.
@3 was @deleted @2, not @ Phillies comment.
@#12 – I just did.
Someone might want to clean up a comment on the previous A3P post, too.
@10 Good call. It added nothing to the discourse.
FYI – I unapproved the doggeral that besmirched the comments section of this article. I assume nobody will consider good taste to be “censorship.”
GP@3,
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The assertion that “anonymous” made ‘a major dump’ of emails, etc., as also reported in the International Business Times does not seem to be matched by a URL for the alleged dump.
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Anonymous dumps are temporarily available via Pastebin or similar sites — they’re put up, announced, and people grab them if they can before they’re erased (as they quickly will be if they contain information that site operators in trouble for continuing to host).
However, this appears to be the dump in question.
They noted they’ve taken down VirgilGoode2012.com, which as far as I know wasn’t a live website. Virgil Goode has on several instances said white nationalism was dangerous and has at least one Indian staffer from what I hear.
This hacking may have the unintended effect of garnering sympathy for A3P.
I just checked their Facebook page. It is still intact.
http://www.facebook.com/american3p
They have a post up addressing the situation, but I couldn’t get it to cut and paste. They say they know who the perps are and have turned the information over to the FBI and Secret Service. Don’t know if that is true or bluster.
I am the first to suggest that RP chooses some unpleasant associates. Standing in front of a Rebel flag is also a mistake, though I’d note that it’s flying over several state capitols, last I checked.
Still, meeting with unsavory haters doesn’t prove anything.
I don’t agree with his revisionist take on the Confederate Elite Insurrection, but that interpretation is a popular one in L circles. It’s not without some merit, but I’d love to see the revisionism disappear, as it’s hurtful to the biggest cause of liberty.
First of all, I’m not convinced that all these attacks by this “Anonymous” group are really the same people. This is clearly an agenda driven attack based on Cultural Marxist PC thought policing and is out of character for the other “Anonymous” hacks. “Anonymous” has already hacked some other un-PC sites so this looks like some kind of coordinated operation, likely distinct from the other “Anonymous” hacks. These sort of rabid PC ideologues like to call themselves “antifa,” short for anti-Fascist. This reads and smells like an “antifa” operation.
Second, what kind of operation is IB Times? Are they legit? The article about the A3P hack is horribly written. It is bad even by the standards of SPLC type guilt by association hackery. It is clearly not any kind of real journalism.
Third, enabling the commission of identity theft is both criminal and despicable. Taking joy in the fact that they facilitated a crime tells you what sort of moral degenerates we are dealing with here.
@2 Follow your fuehrer; aim and fire at yourself.
The assertion that “anonymous” made ‘a major dump’ of emails, etc., as also reported in the International Business Times does not seem to be matched by a URL for the alleged dump.
In the absence of this URL , one might wonder if the claims are true or a hoax by people who were only able to hack the web site, for the purpose of discrediting Ron Paul. Mind you, after the video that LittleGreenFootballs.com put up a few days ago, the Congressman in front of a Confederate flag with audio, many people did not need further persuasion, but politics these days has become a bit nasty.