Bob Barr Now Supports Mitt Romney

Found on Facebook
 

I am pleased to support and endorse Governor Mitt Romney for President

I was honored to support my good friend and fellow Georgian, Newt Gingrich, for President. Newt ran a campaign offering transformational ideas to address the key problems facing America. He contributed in a serious manner to advancing solutions for working Americans. We must continue to move forward for a better America. Our country truly cannot afford four more years of President Obama’s divisive and failed leadership. I stand ready to go to work and join liberty conservatives across Georgia and across America to insure President Obama is a one-term President. Governor Mitt Romney will chart a course to get our nation back on the right track; and get America back to work by reducing the regulatory and tax burdens now strangling American businesses and families. He will reduce the federal deficits that now are an albatross around the neck of America’s economic engine. I am pleased to support and endorse Governor Mitt Romney for President.

 
Bob Barr was the 2008 Libertarian Candidate for President.  He served in the House of Representatives as a Republican from 1995 to 2003.

135 thoughts on “Bob Barr Now Supports Mitt Romney

  1. Andy

    Bob Barr is a disgrace. Thanks to everyone who voted for him for the Libertarian Party’s Presidential nomination in 2008, that is thanks for making our party look like a joke. It didn’t take me very long to see through Barr’s facade, and my assessment of him was dead on right, that is that the guy was a phony who didn’t really give a rat’s as about the Libertarian Party or about libertarianism in general. I, along with others, tried to warn people about Barr, but not enough people listened.

    Tell me Barristas, are you proud of yourself for supporting this traitor, this con-man, this statist slime, Bob Barr?

    Is Bob Barr still a member of the Libertarian Party? If he is (although I wouldn’t be surprised if he is not), then I think that he ought to be kicked out of the party. We ought to pass a resolution condemning Bob Barr, and apologizing to the world for having him as our 2008 candidate for President.

  2. Steve M

    yep Bob Barr has essentially demonstrated that he is what in the south they used to call (starting with the “reconstruction”) a carpet bagger.

  3. Trent Hill

    This is just awful. Endorsing Newt and then Romney.

    He’s clearly angling to revive his GOP career.

  4. Steve M

    even the gop will see him as a carpet bagger. really completely worthless.

  5. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    He sure seems to be holding a grudge, for some reason–as if Libertarians let him down, or something.

  6. Trent Hill

    Oh I don’t think he’s holding a grudge–he said the LP candidate was credible, after all, I think he’s just realizing he really wants to get back into the GOP club.

  7. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt // May 18, 2012 at 2:45 am

    He sure seems to be holding a grudge, for some reason–as if Libertarians let him down, or something.”

    I wouldn’t call it a case of a grudge. I’d say that it is Bob Barr showing his true colors. Bob Barr was never really a libertarian, not by any stretch. His entire stint in the Libertarian Party was nothing more than a con-job, and unfortunately, too many naive Libertarians bought into his bullshit.

  8. George Phillies

    If you wonder who nominated Barr, the list is in the minutes to the 2008 National Convention. I looked at the lists of delegates,etc. The only person who was on stage with Barr in 2008, and who was at this convention, was Steve Gordon. In both cases he was doing his entirely professional job as a publicist, this time for the national party.

  9. Johncjackson

    Meh. Of course I think this is terrible, but it can’t really get me any more upset than John Hospers supporting a worse President/candidate for worse reasons.

  10. Trent Hill

    Johncjackson–I think it’s worse, just because Hospers can at least say “The cold war/911 changed everything!” It’s been a long time since Hospers was LP presidential candidate. Barr endorsed Newt like 2 years after he quit the LP.

  11. Thane Eichenauer

    I voted for Bob Barr for President.

    @3
    “Tell me Barristas, are you proud of yourself for supporting this traitor, this con-man, this statist slime, Bob Barr?”
    Time for the one minute hate eh?

  12. NewFederalist

    Andy… FWIW I also voted for Barr because Baldwin was not on the ballot in my state. I concluded that Baldwin despite being a fundamentalist pastor was actually more libertarian than Barr. I really had no choice. Write-ins in my state are rarely tallied. I voted for the party and not the nominee. Just so you know that not all of us were clueless.

  13. NewFederalist

    BTW Andy… I plan to vote for Johnson despite his position on the “Fair Tax” because he is most certainly the most libertarian candidate in the race. I know you believe that should disqualify him from consideration but this is about sending a message to those in power that we are not happy with they way they have screwed thing up. Just my $0.02 worth.

  14. Oranje Mike

    I voted for Barr in the general election but did not do so proudly. I supported the LP in ’08. Not Barr. Anyone associated with Barr hijacking the convention in Denver should be purged from the LP. Wayne Root is a disgrace for making it happen.

    Gary Johnson is a vast improvement but still not all the way here. His foreign policy is still off though his opinions are better than that of Obama or Romney.

    I say this though, my fellow Libertarians, in ’16 we need to stick to our roots and select a real libertarian as our candidate.

    F@!k Bob Barr!!!!

  15. Thane Eichenauer

    @16
    Did Barr or Root break any party or convention rules in the 08 convention nomination? As far as I can tell your so-called hijacking is simply results you are unhappy with.

  16. ATBAFT

    99.5% of Americans have no idea that Bob Barr was the LP’s candidate four years ago and thus have no concept of him being a “traitor” to the LP or causing us “embarrassment.” There is no reason to keep bringing up Barr’s involvement in the LP. We apparentlyserved his purposes at the time just as he served ours.

  17. Sean Scallon

    One wonders what he thought was so bad about John McCain that he felt he had to run as a Libertarian? It couldn’t have been anything worse than Mitt Romney, they’re both cut from the same cloth.

    That’s the risk with “celebrity” candidates, being used in the faction games of the major parties.

  18. Robert Capozzi

    19 ss: That’s the risk with “celebrity” candidates, being used in the faction games of the major parties.

    me: Is that a risk, or an opportunity? Is it better to be IN the game, in the flow, or is it better to be in a political monastery, piously expounding to one’s fellow monks about the “evils” of the world?

    Barr has done what he’s done. Few will notice. His endorsement means nothing to the LP, does not reflect in any way EXCEPT, perhaps, for monk-ish Ls.

  19. George Whitfield

    I dropped Bob Barr from my Facebook friends when he endorsed Gingrich and I sent him an email why. I think he is hurting for income and is trying to get back into the good graces of the Republican Party so he can get some federal appoinment if Romney is elected. I could be wrong but he seemed pretty desperate when he became Baby Doc’s PR man. Sad to see. And I must admit I was wrong about him when I voted for him at the LP National Convention. So I live and learn.

  20. JT

    I always viewed BB as a savvy political opportunist. So this is just par for the course.

    Unfortunately, there was nobody seeking the Libertarian nomination in 2008 like Gary Johnson (nevermind Harry Browne). Of the top 3 candidates, Barr had a lot of socially conservative baggage, Ruwart was a longtime LP activist with no other distinction (and a surprisingly poor debate performance), and Root was…himself. So most delegates gave Barr the benefit of the doubt.

    Mike: “Anyone associated with Barr hijacking the convention in Denver should be purged from the LP.”

    First, there was no “hijacking.” Second, the LP isn’t a church.

  21. Thomas L. Knapp

    RC@20,

    “Is it better to be IN the game, in the flow, or is it better to be in a political monastery, piously expounding to one’s fellow monks about the ‘evils’ of the world?”

    I’m not awake enough yet to remember the name of that fallacy, but since you’re using a religious analogy:

    It’s better to be IN the game … with one of YOUR players.

    The Holy Roman Catholic Church doesn’t send out Hindu gurus as missionaries, even if those Hindu gurus are better known and have more experience than the Catholic priests also applying for the assignment.

  22. Thomas L. Knapp

    RC@20,

    “Barr has done what he’s done. Few will notice.”

    Interesting take. Why that one now, when in 2008 it was “OMG, OMG, OMG … he will get the MOST media EVAHHH?”

  23. Roger Roots

    I recently listened to Bob Barr being interviewed on a radio show. The segment was previewed as an interview of the former Libertarian Party presidential candidate on the topic of the TSA. When Barr came on the air, his main gripe with the TSA was that he had recently traveled through an airport where TSA goons didn’t recognize his official “U.S. Congress” I.D. card as identification. He had heroicly called for a manager and made a courageous stand over the issue, he told listeners.

    Very telling.

  24. Ryan C

    I held my nose and voted for Barr in 08. Mainly, I voted LP in spite of Barr.

    “He [Romney] will reduce the federal deficits that now are an albatross around the neck of America’s economic engine. ”

    This is not a credible statement. Romney has proposed to spend $100B MORE on the military, and to spend $100B MORE building a fence across the desert on our southern border, and his 20% across the board tax cut is not paid for by any spending cuts, resulting in a projected INCREASE in our deficits going forward, at least according to the only independent scoring of candidate proposals that I have seen:
    http://usbudgetwatch.org/sites/default/files/primary_numbers.pdf
    (see top chart page 5)

    Romney is just another Big Government Republican.
    Obama is a Bigger Government Democrat.
    I will be voting for Gary Johnson in November.

  25. Robert Capozzi

    25 tk: Interesting take. Why that one now, when in 2008 it was “OMG, OMG, OMG … he will get the MOST media EVAHHH?”

    me: Huh? Barr was the LP’s prez candidate in 08, 4 years ago. He did very well in garnering media DURING THE CAMPAIGN. He didn’t do SO well that he became some sort of major national figure, like, for ex., Palin did from being the R veep nominee. Or even Huckabee.

    Near as I can tell, after 08, Barr returned to being just a former congressman and L prez nominee, of little note.

    Root, by contrast, apparently is relentless in seeking media, and he’s of a bit more note, near as I can tell.

    Being a L candidate is not a springboard to chattering-class fame.

  26. Jed Siple

    In ’08 I voted for Nader. Not that I agree with Nader on a lot, but it was a protest on 3 parts: a protest against the Republicans, a protest against the Democrats, and a protest against the Libertarians for nominating such a horrible ticket. All other LP candidates on the ballot (quite a few for PA) got my vote.

  27. Jill Pyeatt Post author

    OM @ 16: ” Wayne Root is a disgrace for making it happen.”

    I’m not in the practice of defending Root, but I don’t know how much he was responsible for making Barr our presidential candidate. He wanted to be the presidential candidate, remember?

  28. Johncjackson

    @12 Trent,
    I get that, but from my perspective rationalizing anything based on the premise that “911 changed everything” Is not a good excuse because it is a stupid belief. I think any libertarian who seriously supported GWB as the best choice for libertarians in 2004 was about as sane and principled as Milnes.

  29. Johncjackson

    As far as who “made it happen.” It’s been mentioned- Stephen Gordon. He used to be very heavily involved in running/writing these LP/”Third party” blogs. If you were around before IPR, you know what I mean. I think it went something like HoT>TPW>IPR as far as the funnel of how writers and readers of LP-heavy 3rd party blogs went. At least that’s how I arrived here as a reader.

    After resigning from his LP job, He appeared with Barr at all kinds of events well before Barr was officially in the running, recruited, and then worked for Barr, along with other Southern Republicans.

  30. paulie

    @16, 33

    Root did endorse Barr in exchange for a VP endorsement from Barr in the final round. I don’t think many (if any) Root supporters would have voted Ruwart over Barr otherwise, but a few may have not voted at all at that point, so it’s conceivable – but unlikely – that Root had much to do with Barr’s nomination.

  31. paulie

    @12, 34

    Hospers was very old when he endorsed Bush and it was many, many years after he was the LP candidate. Whereas Barr has endorsed two very crappy Republicans in the very next presidential election, and one of them while Ron Paul was very actively running against him, the other after the LP nominated a very credible candidate by traditional political standards.

    And he did so explicitly, not arguably (a la Root at one point on a radio show), has not apologized or taken it back, almost certainly will not apologize or take it back.

    So I would say this is worse than Hospers or Root.

    But that is only if you count Barr as LP at all. It is pretty clear by this point that he is not. Root still is, and Hospers was to some extent until the end.

    Barr is more like a person with an addiction – to alcohol, drugs, gambling, violence, or what have you – who makes an attempt at recovery, perhaps sincere but perhaps not, and fails. Political power is a very addictive thing. Having gone through recovery and relapse more than once myself, I understand in some ways.

    That doesn’t mean I excuse it though.

  32. Shawn Levasseur

    Re: JT @24

    JT: “I always viewed BB as a savvy political opportunist. So this is just par for the course.”

    In hindsight, I’d drop “savvy” from the description.

    JT: “…most delegates gave Barr the benefit of the doubt.”

    Benefit of the doubt, sounds like a good way to put it.

    JT: “Root was…himself.”

    I’d say Wayne’s self-promoting tendencies was my big knock against him. After seeing him at a few LNC meetings, (and the fact he has stuck around) he has proven to be a decent team player, but I wouldn’t want him as Chair, or the Presidential nominee.

    JT: “Ruwart was a longtime LP activist with no other distinction (and a surprisingly poor debate performance),”

    It didn’t help when Mary’s video accompanying her nomination speech had an abundance of old photos and achievements, inadvertently signaling a lack of achievements in recent years. She also seemed to be running a campaign that was slapped together rather late in the process as a way to keep Barr off the ballot, and no plan for actually running for president beyond the convention.

    To be fair, Wrights (who was Mary’s campaign manager in ’08) seems to have learned from and run a more issues based campaign, than a resume based one. And it looked like it was targeted at November elections, not the May convention.

    JT: ” there was no “hijacking.”

    6 ballots clearly signals a LACK of hijacking. Though I think the Barr campaign may have assumed they were just going to waltz into the convention and win. (Johnson’s campaign avoided such cockiness. That’s WHY he was able to win by such a wide margin.)

    The seeds of how this year’s Presidential nominating race was a more civil, less dramatic, yet still spirited one, can be seen in the various lessons learned 4 years prior.

  33. George Phillies

    @33 He cut a deal with Barr. First Barr offered the VP to Ruwart in return for her endorsement, and then he offered it to Root.

    If Root had given a ‘we have two fine candidates’ speech the outcome would have been up in the air.

  34. paulie

    GP,

    You really think so? Candidates have limited influence over their supporters. I honestly do not see many Root supporters voting for Ruwart. I do see possibly some of them only stuck around and voted at all to get Wayne on the ticket, which may have made the difference on a close final ballot…maybe. Otherwise I think a few of them would have said pox on both and gone home, or at least off to the nearest liquor serving establishment. The question is would it have been enough people to make a difference?

  35. paulie

    Second, the LP isn’t a church.

    Agreed. Once we started with the purges, everyone will get their turn getting voted off the island. And then there were none…

    Let people purge themselves, as they always have. Case in point, one Bob Barr…

  36. paulie

    The only person who was on stage with Barr in 2008, and who was at this convention, was Steve Gordon.

    Shane Cory was there this time. Not sure if he was a delegate. We talked a few times; he was friendly.

    Steve was obviously there but was not a delegate. Apparently his contracted stipulated that he could not be a delegate.

  37. Shawn Levasseur

    GP, @41.

    He offered Mary VP?! Color me skeptical on that one.

    If it did happen, it would have had to have been without Lee Wrights in the room. He would have either laughed or ranted about the offer so loudly that you would have heard him from Wyoming.

    I’d buy him asking Kubby. Though I doubt he would have made such an endorsement so long as Mary was still in the race.

  38. paulie

    He offered Mary VP?! Color me skeptical on that one.

    It’s true. She said no. No such offer to Kubby. Root did offer VP to Kubby and the answer was also no.

  39. George Phillies

    @46. Since the negotiation was covered live on CSpan, and at one time I had the tape, there can be absolutely no doubt that it happened.

    As it happened, the offer was made on the floor of the convention, where Ruwart was sitting. She negotiated with someone I could not identify, and turned down the offer, and everyone watching on television saw it.

  40. George Phillies

    @42. Limited, not zero.

    Contemplate the Ruwart supporters who were subject to the misapprehension that I was going to endorse their candidate.

  41. JT

    Me: “I always viewed BB as a savvy political opportunist. So this is just par for the course.”

    Shawn: “In hindsight, I’d drop “savvy” from the description.”

    You’re probably right about that, Shawn. “Calculating” is probably a more appropriate term.

    Shawn: “She also seemed to be running a campaign that was slapped together rather late in the process as a way to keep Barr off the ballot, and no plan for actually running for president beyond the convention.”

    Good point. I don’t know this for a fact, but I’d guess that her running for the nomination was in large part a response to Libertarians who were upset about Barr being the clear frontrunner close to the convention.

  42. Paulie

    I did not see Corey on the delegate list.

    Cory, no e. I saw him there on multiple days.

    Limited, not zero.

    I acknowledged that. The question is whether it was enough to put Barr over the top. My answer is I don’t know.

    In re: Ruwart, she did not know Barr would run when she announced.

    What happened was that at the LSLA/LNC in Vegas there was a debate and all the candidates for the nomination failed to impress the audience to say the least. Kubby could have done much better but he had the flu.

    As a result a variety of people convinced Ruwart and Barr to jump in. Barr may have already planned it but people I have talked to deny it. Ruwart definitely had not planned it. She was double crossed by some people she was led to believe would support her who then supported Barr.

    She announced first; Barr, only later. Even the Barr exploratory run was announced only after she was already announced.

  43. JT

    Paulie: “What happened was that at the LSLA/LNC in Vegas there was a debate and all the candidates for the nomination failed to impress the audience to say the least.”

    Agreed. I thought that Ruwart would dominate, given her authorship of Short Answers to the Tough Questions and her past Libertarian experience. That clearly didn’t happen. I think that other people also had higher expectations for her as a speaker & were disappointed as well.

    Paulie: “She announced first; Barr, only later. Even the Barr exploratory run was announced only after she was already announced.”

    Oh right. I was hazy on the timeline because I think both of them announced within a couple of months before the convention.

  44. Rich Moroney

    Voted for the LP candidate in ’08 (as I have since ’80) but I most certainly didn’t vote for B Barr (even though it was his name on the ballot).

  45. RedPhillips

    Trent is correct. He is just trying to get back in the club. Here is his latest FB post.

    “I am looking forward to seeing many good friends at the Georgia Republican Party State Convention this weekend. Be sure and stop by the Georgia for Mitt and Mitt Romney table to show your support for Governor Romney.”

  46. RedPhillips

    Trent and others, to what extent was Barr just a willing accomplice in what was largely a failed Viguerie ploy? For mailing lists, for a credential, for a future platform, etc.

  47. Sean Scallon

    “I am looking forward to seeing many good friends at the Georgia Republican Party State Convention this weekend. Be sure and stop by the Georgia for Mitt and Mitt Romney table to show your support for Governor Romney.”

    Maybe he gets the honor of mowing Mitt’s lawn in return for his endorsement. I think that would be appropriate.

    Viguerie? Now there’s a man who needs to retire.

  48. Robert Capozzi

    56 rp: … a failed Viguerie ploy?

    me: Any evidence it was that? Why throw out a conspiracy theory?

  49. RedPhillips

    RC, it’s no conspiracy theory. It is well known that Vig was supporting Barr’s effort. In fact, IPR exists today because Vig bought the old site, Third Party Watch. Many saw this as an effort to turn TPW into a pro-Barr outlet.

  50. Gene Berkman

    I don’t approve of this, and I don’t want to be seen as defending Bob Barr, but it really does seem that Steve Gordon is the one who convinced a reluctant Bob Barr to accept the Libertarian Party nomination.

    My evidence is the number of posts at Thirdpartywatch.com (IPR predecessor) and Gordon’s own blog plugging Bob Barr as a potentinal candidate.

    From the time Bob Barr joined the Libertarian Party, right-wing friends of mine were asking if he was going to be the LP candidate for President, just because he was a former Congressman and we had no other potential candidates with credentials.

    In the wake of 9/11, American politics became very polarized, and Libertarians split over the proper response. The 2004 campaign was a sign of how low we could go, and yet Barr, a former Congressman supported our candidate rather than Bush that year.

    Barr probably stayed with the LP in 2008 because he saw the Republicans still committed to Bush league statism, but his own performance in the 2008 election probably convinced him the LP was not becoming a viable political vehicle.

  51. Austin Battenberg

    Well I’m embarrassed. I never donated or put up yard signs or anything, but I did vote for Barr in the general and I defended some of his past actions believing him to have turned around. I guess I want to believe people when they say they have changed because I have changed from a liberal mindset to a libertarian one, and I don’t see why it couldn’t happen to others.

    That being said, its interesting that on his facebook page he still has things up like his favorite show is Freedom Watch and favorite movie is Atlas Shrugged. It’s like he saying, “Yea, I’m still a libertarian, but I’m going to go against my principles and support a Keynesian anyways, just so that way I can get back into political office.”

  52. Pingback: 2008 Libertarian Presidential Candidate Bob Barr Endorses Mitt Romney | Conservative Heritage Times

  53. Trent Hill

    I’ve tried emailing Richard Viguerie three times. He never responded. I really wanted the site and the old posts.

  54. JT

    Berkman: “Barr probably stayed with the LP in 2008 because he saw the Republicans still committed to Bush league statism, but his own performance in the 2008 election probably convinced him the LP was not becoming a viable political vehicle.”

    Considering that BB thought he had a decent chance to win, I’m sure that his vote in the election was a huge, bitter disappointment to him. People who are bitterly disappointed to that degree by election results tend not to stay involved with the LP.

    I hope GJ doesn’t seriously believe the same thing. He has made statements that concern me in that regard though. And don’t tell me something like, “Well, if he makes it into the TV debates with Obama & Romney, anything can happen.” If he does that, I’ll chop off my own hand (my left one though; I’m a rightie).

  55. Andy

    JT said: “Considering that BB thought he had a decent chance to win, I’m sure that his vote in the election was a huge, bitter disappointment to him. People who are bitterly disappointed to that degree by election results tend not to stay involved with the LP.”

    Well maybe Bob Barr would have done better in the 2008 election if he hadn’t been such a crappy candidate.

    His campaign was run poorly and he alienated much of the Libertarian Party’s base, as well as much of the potential support he could have received if he and his campaign hadn’t pissed so many people off.

  56. Shane

    @48 George, if she spoke with someone you could not identify, then you really can’t say it was with the Barr camp.

    There were numerous people who came to me at that time trying to “negotiate” who had no relationship with anyone else. They were just trying to convince someone to do something. It was a political convention. Those things happen.

    I can say that no offer was ever made to Ruwart at the convention by the campaign. It was never even considered.

    You must have missed me saying hello to you as you sat on a couch. Regardless, it was good to see you.

  57. Paulie

    Id like to review those old posts from 3rd Party Watch…didn’t his campaign manager buy it then kill it?

    Not exactly. Contrary to what was said above Viguerie was not officially a part of the Barr campaign and as far as I know never even officially endorsed Barr. He did speak at LP conventions, including Orlando LSLA in 2007 and Denver 2008, and his tenure as owner of TPW was ma

  58. Paulie

    hit submit early

    74 cont

    …was marked by an attempt to help Barr get the nomination, but once that happened I am not aware of any ways he helped Barr at all.

    If anyone knows of any post-nomination help that Barr got from Viguerie please let me know the details and references.

    They did try to keep making a go of TPW for several months but it kept losing readership to us and eventually they lost interest and stopped actively managing it, eventually letting it expire and die.

    For some reason it seems to be unavailable at archive.org or any other method of retrieving old posts and comments. Anyone know of one?

  59. Paulie

    to what extent was Barr just a willing accomplice in what was largely a failed Viguerie ploy? For mailing lists, for a credential, for a future platform, etc.

    Unknown. Barr has a good pokerface and his true intentions were hard to read. I interacted with him and his close associates many times and I can’t tell you for sure. I know all the conspiracy theories, including revenge for getting him out of Congress (specious – Linder and redistricting did him in, not the LP; LP took greatly exaggerated credit).

    Everyone including Steve G swore up and down to me that he was a reluctant candidate, but I don’t know what to believe myself.

    I think it is highly likely that he has had mixed feelings for many years. I know how that goes. The negative reaction he got from many in the LP probably has not helped. Nor did losing a lot of his Republican friends and associated income.

    Also, he was concerned about civil liberties abuses under Bush. Now that Obama has continued those abuses and Bush’s wars and has pursued the failed economic policies that he has, Barr may believe that getting Obama out of office trumps whatever pro-liberty instincts he has. Or he may just be desperate for the power, money and influence that a Republican position conveys. It may be a combination of such factors.

  60. Paulie

    really does seem that Steve Gordon is the one who convinced a reluctant Bob Barr to accept the Libertarian Party nomination.

    My evidence is the number of posts at Thirdpartywatch.com (IPR predecessor) and Gordon’s own blog plugging Bob Barr as a potential candidate.

    Gordon was one of a number of people, and he does say Barr was reluctant. I don’t know if I believe that. I have never known Steve to dissemble but then again how would I know if he was?

    Yes, he did plug Barr on 3pw, Gordon Unleashed and so on, but that doesn’t mean Barr was reluctant. Maybe he really was reluctant, or maybe that was the plan all along and he was just being coy and wanted it to seem others talked him into it. It’s even possible that Steve thinks he and others talked Barr into it, not realizing that was exactly what Barr wanted them to do.

  61. Paulie

    at debate was epic! I think I have the only tape of the event as every camera there was brought by my team…

    If you can figure out anyone that knows how and can upload it to the web I would very much appreciate that.

  62. Paulie

    I’ve tried emailing Richard Viguerie three times. He never responded. I really wanted the site and the old posts.

    I wish someone had told me that while it was still up or that I had anticipated it coming down entirely including archive. I was signed up to write there until the end, although Jason made me promise not to as a condition of signing me up here. I could have copied the whole thing, and thought about it, but never did. D’oh!

  63. Paulie

    Which reminds me. Trent, are we making regular backup copies of IPR? If not, we should.

  64. christopher barber

    Where to begin.. I have history with the GA LP.
    And with the 2008 Libertarian Convention in Denver, and the aftermath.
    At our State Convention I WORKED HARD to expell Bob Barr. My resolution lost…….
    When the afternoon was over I lost a lot of respect for a lot of people . Among those….
    Adams
    Pye
    Chastin
    Bittener
    Shock
    I would not give these people a drink of piss if they were dying of thirst in hell.
    I understand why Oregon split in two.
    Incrementalist Republican bullishit in OUR Party is wrong, As Libertarians We should send Any pretender back to the GOP.

  65. paulie

    Shane

    Ruwart sure thought she got an offer from Barr.

    Were you already working for Barr during the convention? My memory is hazy. The first I remember you being officially with the campaign was on stage, but of course I may just have not known or don’t remember.

  66. NewFederalist

    @81… I am not trying to open old wounds or anything like that but didn’t the founding members of the LP come from the GOP? I have been involved with the LP since 1974 and with the exception of Woody Jenkins of Louisiana (who never joined the LP as far as I know) just about everyone who had ever affiliated with a major party that later became a Libertarian came from the Republicans. I cannot think of a Democrat who ever came to the LP (unless the quick cup of coffee that Mike Gravel had counts). I am not suggesting that your viewpoint about Barr and incrementalism is erroneous but I just want to understand if you feel that recruiting Dems makes more sense than recruiting Reps. Thank you.

  67. paulie

    just about everyone who had ever affiliated with a major party that later became a Libertarian came from the Republicans. I cannot think of a Democrat who ever came to the LP

    I am one and have talked to many others, although I don’t remember most of them and I’m not sure which of the rest are cool with me sharing their past history here.

    I just want to understand if you feel that recruiting Dems makes more sense than recruiting Reps. Thank you.

    Can’t speak for anyone else but I say yes. If you want to know why you will have to either wait til the mood to explain it strikes me again, search past archives, or if you happen to be one of those people who does not mind talking to me on the phone (IE not NF among others) you could call me and ask.

    That being said, what if anything in Mr. Barber’s comments leads you to believe that he thinks we should recruit Democrats more so than Republicans? I read his comments more so to say that we should be a party separate and distinct from others, not a temporary venting game for temporarily disaffected Republicans. If so I fully agree, which is not in any way to say I oppose outreach or that I favor outreach only to Democrats and others coming from the left.

    That would be completely not what I mean nor what I understand CB to be saying.

    All that being said, I do agree that up until now most active and especially most vocally active LPers have come from the NSGOP – but I see that as the problem, and correcting it as being both eminently possible and vital to our future.

    I would love to say a lot more about that but I have already spent way too much time on that and will save additional details for a later time, those who know how to and feel like searching the archives, and/or those who want to talk on the phone and actually do so.

  68. Gene Berkman

    NF @ 83 – you are correct.
    John Hospers was a Republican when he received the nomination in 1972.

    Roger MacBride had been a Republican legislator in Vermont (1962-1964) unsuccessful candidate for Governor of Vermont in the GOP primary (1964) and Republican Elector from Virginia (1972)

    Ed Clark had been an enrolled Republican in New York before joining the Free Libertarian Party of New York.

    Ron Paul of course had been a Republican, as had Dick Randolph (Alaska legislator) and the 3 state legislators in New Hampshire who joined the LP in 1992 all came from the Republican Caucus.

    The only really prominent Democrat officeholder to even speak at a Libertarian Party convention was Sen. Proxmire from Wisconsin.

    Anybody who wants to recruits Democrats into the LP, go ahead. It has just not proved to be a very effective strategy so far.

    I meet many Democrats in marijuana legalization efforts, and they respect us, but they either believe in the welfare state and know that we don’t, or they are so afraid of the Republicans – sometimes for good reason – that they will not join.

    That said, our candidates should try for votes from liberals by bringing up social issues and our antiwar message. And we can get some votes from liberals, but they are very unlikely to join the Libertarian Party.

  69. JT

    Andy: “Well maybe Bob Barr would have done better in the 2008 election if he hadn’t been such a crappy candidate.”

    But even if he had been a great candidate with a great campaign, BB wouldn’t have come close to winning, as he thought he could (at least he did a few months before the election). My point is that the higher you set any expectation, the farther you have to fall if that expectation ends up nowhere near being met. Fall far enough & you might not get back up again.

    GJ won’t come anywhere close to winning either, no matter how well his campaign is run or how much he improves as a communicator or whether or not he advocates the Fair Tax. He should set his sights on doing much better than BB did in 2008 & on leaving the LP much stronger than it was when he won the nomination.

  70. JT

    Berkman: “Anybody who wants to recruits Democrats into the LP, go ahead. It has just not proved to be a very effective strategy so far.”

    I don’t really think it has been a strategy per se, so it couldn’t have been an effective one.

    Berkman: “That said, our candidates should try for votes from liberals by bringing up social issues and our antiwar message. And we can get some votes from liberals, but they are very unlikely to join the Libertarian Party.”

    I don’t know if they’re far less likely to join the LP than conservatives are. Many self-identified liberals in certain parts of the country are so primarily because of civil liberties & foreign policy, but they aren’t wedded to the welfare state as much as opposed to crony capitalism. Ditto for many self-identified conservatives in certain parts of the country who are so because of taxes & bureaucracy but not because of an affinity for war or legislated morality. The percentage of such liberals & conservatives varies widely geographically.

    If the LP is perceived as being strong in each sphere, then the people on each side who are strong in one area & open-minded in the other, and who believe that neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are very good in the area they deeply care about, are good prospects.

  71. JT

    I should add that even a majority of those who are “good prospects” in the ways I described above won’t join the LP. But the LP doesn’t need a million actual members to have a real impact on policy.

  72. Andy

    “But even if he had been a great candidate with a great campaign, BB wouldn’t have come close to winning, as he thought he could (at least he did a few months before the election).”

    If Bob Barr really believed that he was going to come close to winning the election, then he was completely delusional.

    If his campaign hadn’t been such a clusterfuck, maybe he could have gotten say 1%-5% of the vote, maybe a little higher if he had really kicked ass, but he wasn’t going to even come remotely close to winning the election.

    It would have taken a much bigger name candidate to have come anywhere near close to winning the election than Bob Barr.

  73. Roger Roots

    By far the highest-ranking “crossover” candidate the LP has ever had was a former Democrat. I am speaking of former U.S. Senator Mike Gravel, who was on stage debating Barr, Root, Ruwart, Phillies and Kubby in ’08. Ron Paul and Bob Barr were members of the lower house of Congress; Gravell was a former U.S. Senator. Even more significant: Gravell had been named as a frontrunner in the selection process for Vice President in 1972.

    Gravell was old when he went Libertarian, but he had been one of the most prominent Democrats of his time during the early 1970s. He was nationally known for trying to end the draft and he personally read the Pentagon Papers into the Congressional Record, at risk of potential prosecution by Nixon’s Justice Department.

  74. Andy

    JT said: “GJ won’t come anywhere close to winning either, no matter how well his campaign is run or how much he improves as a communicator or whether or not he advocates the Fair Tax. He should set his sights on doing much better than BB did in 2008 & on leaving the LP much stronger than it was when he won the nomination.”

    I dislike his advocacy of the Fair Tax, but I will say that I think that Gary Johnson has the potential to break the million vote this year. If things go really well it’s possible that he could smash a million votes. So far, there’s already been one big screw up and that is not making the petition deadline for party status in Oklahoma.

  75. Roger Roots

    I may have mispoke in my post above. Under correct constitutional analysis, Gary Johnson is actually the highest-ranking “crossover” politician to ever seek the LP nomination. As a former governor of a sovereign state, Johnson can be viewed as having attained a higher office than a U.S. Senate Seat.

  76. Andy

    Roger Roots said: “Gravell was old when he went Libertarian, but he had been one of the most prominent Democrats of his time during the early 1970s. ”

    Gravel seemed like a nice guy, but I don’t think that he was ever really a libertarian. I think that he held some views that were libertarian or quasi-libertarian, but he still held a lot of leftist views that were not libertarian, and this was to the point where I’d say that he should not have been the Libertarian Party’s candidate for President, which he wasn’t, but the only problem was that the guy who won the nomination – Bob Barr – was just as bad, actually, I think that Barr was probably worse if anything.

  77. LibertarianGirl

    I gotta say I judged Stephen Gordon upon 1st meeting him due to his connection to Barr , whom I hate so I did not care for Stephen at all!

    But….I sure love him now:) he’s a genuinely talented politico and after his near death accident it was freakin awesome to see him in Vegas

  78. Andy

    LibertarianGirl said: “But….I sure love him now:) he’s a genuinely talented politico and after his near death accident it was freakin awesome to see him in Vegas.”

    What near death accident?

  79. Andy

    “LibertarianGirl // May 19, 2012 at 1:16 am

    oh for shizzle Andy , SG got in , based on pics , literally one of the worst accidents Ive ever seen pics of..EVER…:(

    Well that sucks.

  80. just libertarian

    Which is worse, Barr supporting Romney, or Root supporting Johnson?

  81. Richie

    @101 – Barr supporting Romney is worse. I’m not a fan of WAR at all. However, Johnson is a candidate that seems to appeal to both Radicals and Reformers. I mean, obviously he wasn’t the first choice of the Radicals, but I see a lot of Radicals willing to get behind him (unlike Barr). This is probably because, while he holds to a couple rather unorthodox positions (FairTax), he hasn’t changed his views at all since joining the LP, and has a record that is consistent with his views.

  82. just saying

    Root & Romney seem very similar to me… One is a lower-rent version of the archetype, obviously.

    & Root just strikes me as somehow a bigger warmonger than Romney, though. Hence the question.

  83. JT

    Andy: “If Bob Barr really believed that he was going to come close to winning the election, then he was completely delusional.”

    I said that he thought he *could* come close to winning, not that he thought he was going to. That was unrealistic as well. Of course, it’s hard to tell whether a candidate really believes that or whether he’s just trying to fire people up. I know that BB *said* it a few months ahead of the election. He may have eventually realized that it wasn’t going to happen, but I’m sure that he still expected a result that was well beyond reasonable.

    Andy: “Gravel seemed like a nice guy, but I don’t think that he was ever really a libertarian. I think that he held some views that were libertarian or quasi-libertarian, but he still held a lot of leftist views that were not libertarian, and this was to the point where I’d say that he should not have been the Libertarian Party’s candidate for President…”

    Totally agree. Gravel was obviously a liberal, not a libertarian. I really don’t know why he jumped into the Libertarian nomination race close to the convention, but I was glad he didn’t win it.

  84. Starchild

    Andy @3 writes, “We ought to pass a resolution condemning Bob Barr, and apologizing to the world for having him as our 2008 candidate for President.”

    Moved and seconded! But more importantly, we should strive to be better judges of record and character, less concerned with how well known a candidate is and more concerned with his/her positions on the issues, so we don’t make a similar mistake again.

    Jill @33 – The final rounds of voting for the LP’s 2008 presidential nomination came down to Bob Barr and Mary Ruwart. Root could have endorsed a principled libertarian with a strong history in the movement, and instead he chose the opportunistic former congressman, saying of Barr when nominated as his VP, “I’m here to learn from the master”. What did he learn, I wonder?

    As Barr’s former running mate, W.A.R. would be the most appropriate person to take the lead and introduce Andy’s proposed resolution to be adopted by the Libertarian National Committee. So before introducing the resolution myself, I’ll give him first dibs on it.

    If anyone wants to try their hand at some proposed wording for a resolution, I’m interested in seeing suggestions.

  85. Robert Capozzi

    106 sc, what a profound waste of time! If you believe that condemning Barr makes ANY difference to – well – anything I can think of, please share.

    Forgive Barr, for he knows not what he does.

    Then move on to more productive endeavors.

    Picking over carcasses? Really?

  86. LibertarianGirl

    @107 what it will do is give those folk who supported him and end to their guilt..he’s a black stain on our honor and I think a resolution is a great idea

  87. NewFederalist

    I have to agree with Capozzi on this one except I say ignore him rather than forgive him. To continue to give him any thought at all just gives him power over you. He has proven that he is not worth it. Forget about him, learn the lesson and move on.

  88. Robert Capozzi

    108 LG, thanks for making that explicit. Guilt is not assuaged by projecting on or condemning others. If anything, condemnation INCREASES guilt, though in the moment it might feel good to vilify.

    It is only a “black stain” if you believe it.

    Barr’s just being Barr. I think he’s making a mistake. Obsessing over his mistake only makes it worse….

  89. LibertarianGirl

    obsessing? you gotta love the day and age when info is so fast that a couple of days talking about something is obsessing..My definition of obsessing is much more obsessified ( yes I just made that up)lol

    me personally , I have no guilt , I am embarrassed by his name ever being associated with us and he IS a stain on our honor.

  90. Robert Capozzi

    111 lg, I don’t see how you can be embarrassed by anything anyone else does.

    If is IS a stain in fact, something more than simply YOUR perception of a “stain,” prove it!

    As they say in the ‘hood, “I’m gonna do me, y’all do y’all” contains great wisdom.

  91. Austin Battenberg

    It seems easier to recruit Democrat supporters than former Democrat office holders. I know a lot of people who were Democrats who voted for Obama, and now are Ron Paul supporters and call themselves libertarians. I doubt they registered in the LP, but they are definetly understanding and supporting economic freedom, so I don’t think its out of the realm of possibility to reach out to Democrats. I think its more difficult because if the majority of the LP came from the right, and we have candidates that are more conservative than libertarian like Bob Barr, than that will turn off any hope of getting votes or support from the left.

  92. JT

    I don’t agree with Capozzi talking like Barr is a moron or a child who doesn’t know what he has done or what he’s doing, but I reluctantly agree with him about a resolution. I think it’s worse to formally censure a guy who was in fact nominated at convention by the delegates (albeit on the sixth ballot), no matter what anyone thinks of the guy. I consider him little more than a political opportunist & I don’t think his 2008 candidacy is something to be proud of, but it happened. It’s 4 years later now & it’s old news. I don’t think any more attention should be drawn to it. I understand the sentiment behind it though.

  93. Robert Capozzi

    112 lg: Barr vilified himself all we would be doing is pointing it out

    me: Hmm, well, I can’t read minds, but I sense when I make a mistake I did not set out to “vilify” myself. How ’bout you?

    He has made IMO a mistake. I have to assume he’s doing so because he thinks he’s doing the right thing. I disagree with him.

    I thought Ls believed in minding one’s own business? Fixing other people’s mistakes is too much work, since there’s a world filled with them, unfolding every day. And there will be more mistakes tomorrow, too, make book on that.

    Has it occurred to you that drawing attention to BB’s endorsement might serve to convince others that Romney is the lesser of 2 evils? IOW, condemning Barr might actually backfire.

  94. LibertarianGirl

    you think he made a mistake??LMAO

    thats ridiculous , he’s a very smart , shrewd and intentioned man , he did not make a “mistake” he made a calculated choice…gimme a break

  95. Robert Capozzi

    116 jt: …moron or a child …

    118 lg: …very smart , shrewd and intentioned man…

    me: Not quite my point. Look, back when I was a NAP-solutist L, I was for about a week persuaded that there’s a right to private nukes by another NAP-solutist L. I did my own thinking and concluded he was correct. But then ANOTHER NAP-solutist L gave me yet another way to work through the NAP to conclude that there is no right to private nukes.

    I would say that in that week, I wasn’t exactly a moron, child, etc. I was not fully conscious, though, since by all indications that position is insane.

    Barr’s a smart guy, no doubt, LG. I’d say some of the biggest mistakes are made by the highly intelligent. Their minds are bigger “weapons,” so when such a mind malfunctions, the mistakes are often dramatic.

    Barr’s mind malfunctioned when he defended Baby Doc and it’s malfunctioning now. That big brain of his seems prone to malfunction, I’d say….

  96. starchild

    Bob Barr didn’t *make* a mistake, he *was* a mistake — at least for the Libertarian Party to nominate for president. That represented a major breach of collective judgment, and the sooner we acknowledge it, the sooner we can start rebuilding the credibility that decision cost us among more perceptive observers.

    Who could blame sensible, freedom-loving people for hesitating to support a party that would back such a candidate over an authentic, principled communicator like Mary Ruwart, without our mea culpa? Remaining silent and shamed like an abused spouse is hardly going to inspire anyone’s confidence.

  97. NewFederalist

    Starchild- should we pass a similar resolution to postumously censure Hospers as well?

  98. Robert Capozzi

    121 sc: the sooner we acknowledge it…

    me: Yes, acknowledging error privately seems indicated.

    sc: rebuilding the credibility that decision cost us among more perceptive observers

    me: Yes, if there were a pool of outsiders beating the shit out of the LP on a daily basis for the 08 selection, some PUBLIC acknowledgement may well be in order. And I don’t mean anecdotal grumblings someone heard at an RP meetup or at the grocery check out line, to be clear.

    If you think this is anything like an abused spouse, then I’d say you’ve said your piece on the matter.

    And if you still foster the notion that Ruwart was the better choice, I respect that, of course, but to not acknowledge her shortcomings as a candidate also seems like unhealthy denial.

  99. zapper

    The LP should just ignore and forget Bob Barr. Most of those who ever noticed that he ran at all, or noticed that he was the LP candidate in 2008 – very small percentages of the population – have already forgotten, so why remind them. A week after this thread disappears, I will happily forget as well.

    If someone brings it up, at an event or in the media, just nod and say that yes, it’s sad, he seemed to have finally learned to be a Libertarian, but then it seems that he needed money and so he went back to his old friends.

    Like an old lover from long ago, we should just forget that Bob Barr ran.

  100. JT

    Sorry Robert, but BB was on the LNC & was the Libertarian candidate for President. Libertarian delegates then nominate GJ. BB turns around & endorses Mitt Romney (after endorsing New Gingrich)?? “He knows not what he does” doesn’t make any sense in this case, it’s condescending to boot, & it’s an example of the mind-reading that you so often criticize.

  101. paulie

    Root & Romney seem very similar to me… One is a lower-rent version of the archetype, obviously.

    Wayne was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and has never had to struggle economically any time in his life? Not from any bio read.

    Root just strikes me as somehow a bigger warmonger than Romney

    That says more about you than about Root. You are on here way too much to have missed his evolution on foreign policy, however incomplete.

  102. Robert Capozzi

    125 jt, thanks for the feedback.

    The longer version is “he knows not what he does, near as I can tell.”

    LG is correct: We are perceiving animals. We do have a choice, though, when we perceive that something is “off.” We can rail against it or we can accept/forgive it. I prefer the latter, chill approach.

  103. zapper

    Gotta agree with Paulie regarding Root. He’s getting better, he fits in the Libertarian quadrant and I’m glad to have him in the LP. I hope that he keeps on reading, learning, growing and evolving in a more L direction and doing his best to promote Libertarianism and the LP – and I hope that I can do the same.

  104. Timothy Yung

    I am sorry for beating a dead horse but Bob Barr could have at least said to vote strategically and support Gary Johnson in solidly blue or red states then vote for Mitt Romney in swing states. Bob Barr does not even say that Mitt Romney was the lesser of two evils instead he fully endorses Mitt Romney.

  105. Less Antman

    I spoke with Mary in Las Vegas: she said that she couldn’t remember the Barr camp offering her the VP slot directly, but does believe they talked to Lee and that he turned them down on her behalf. But I have no sense she would have even considered being on the same ticket as Barr.

    Look, I supported Ruwart on all 6 ballots, but don’t doubt the sincerity of those Barr supporters who thought that having a former DOMA sponsor and medical marijuana opponent campaign for the repeal of DOMA and legalization of medical marijuana would be a real feather in the cap of the LP. Many felt betrayed by Barr, he obviously isn’t a part of the LP anymore, and it is time to move on and do what we can to build the party in the future.

  106. Alexander Peak

    Barr endorsed Romney in 2012 over Johnson?  Wow.  I mean, I’m not surprised he abandoned the LP, but I am surprised that he abandoned it so quickly.  I honestly thought he would have stuck around longer than that.  (In 2008, he said that he did not abandon the GOP, that the GOP abandoned him; I guess this means that the GOP has now “unabandoned” him.)

    It can be said that in all three of the elections in which I have been legally permitted to vote for President of the United States of America, I voted for the Libertarian nominee; yet, only in two of those three elections did I vote for a libertarian candidate.

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