September 2015 Open Thread

Our monthly open thread. Post news tips about alt parties and independent candidates, discuss any story that should be posted here but has not yet been posted, or even delve into completely off-topic stuff…just avoid quarantined thread subject matter and things that could get us and/or you into legal trouble such as threats, libel, and copyright infringement.

News tips can also be sent to the IPR writers who have chosen to make their contact info available at

It’s also become an IPR tradition to post videos in the open threads.  Here’s an interesting video I recently found:

Not funny?  Well, here’s something that might make you laugh.  We’ve reached the five year anniversary of what is perhaps the greatest speech of all-time:

One more.  Here’s something very interesting that Andy posted the other day:

126 thoughts on “September 2015 Open Thread

  1. Jill Pyeatt

    I just went through my copy of the LP News, and I’m delighted to see my state and my own region to be well represented! There’s our state chair Ted Brown on the front page, in a photo taken by my husband Alan Pyeatt, plus Ted is still the Secretary/Treasurer of my Pasadena region. Plus, both Jason Wu and Boomer Shannon, who are featured on page 10, are regular attendees of our monthly meetings. Hopefully, you’ll all be hearing plenty about The LP Ca in the next couple of years!

  2. George Phillies

    Oregon accepts LNC disaffiliation

    A message from Lars Hedbor: Forwarded for your information, a resolution adopted by a vote of 7-0, with 2 absent [GP: the LP of Oregon State Committee]:

    “Be it resolved that the Libertarian Party of Oregon shall boycott the Orlando 2016 National Convention; that we shall not be bound by the Convention’s Presidential nomination; that if any delegation presents itself as the Oregon delegation, they shall be disclaimed.”

    – Lars D. H. Hedbor,
    Chair, Libertarian Party of Oregon

    Hedbor gave an explanation:

    In a nutshell, at the last two national conventions, our delegation has been tampered with – in one case, completely replaced, and in another, “only” taken over – by people associated with the attempted hostile takeover of the LPO by the Oregon GOP.

    Since we have been denied the ability to select our delegation, we cannot possibly be expected to be bound by the decisions of the Convention.

    This resolution brings me no joy, but it was forced on us by this repeated pattern of abuses.

    – Lars D. H. Hedbor,
    Chair, Libertarian Party of Oregon

  3. Wes Wagner

    Nick is correct on both points and further the LPO has not taken any action to disaffiliate and end the relationship with the LNC/National LP at this time.

  4. Caryn Ann Harlos

    The news of the resolution is now a separate IPR article… knock yourselves out…..

  5. Paulie

    [ Fan Group] Shanti Abraham posted:

    You read that right: he’s being charged AS AN ADULT, and will have to register as a sex offender for having “sexually exploitative pictures” …OF HIMSELF. Is this what you think these laws were put in place for?

    Teen Boy Charged As Adult For Having ‘Naked Pictures of a Minor’ Even Though Images Were of Himself
    A high school quarterback is being charged with having ……..

    Pertains to a recent discussion thread. I don’t remember which one.

  6. Paulie

    DWP anything with over one link will do that. Want to get that changed? Email

    Marlon Areola.. yeah, I know you are Nathan Norman, but I happen to like that video so it stays (at least as far as I am concerned, if one of the other editors deletes it I won’t cry about it). Other than that comment though… you still aren’t welcome here.

    Everyone who helped me get the new laptop or may be curious… it is here… thanks to everyone who helped. Trying to figure how to get linux on it now (no CD/DVD slot ….)

  7. Paulie

    Chatting about it with Ken Moellman. He says it can be with a USB stick done but is much easier with a disc. We’ll work on it. Thanks for the suggestion.

  8. Paulie

    Does Jessica know about that?

    Just kidding… thanks for the heads up, I’ll give it a listen.

  9. Caryn Ann Harlos

    LOL… it was more of a description not instructions:) But you might be able to get with him. I see that Bonnie posted about it on FB as well… TAILS

  10. Andy

    Julia Tourianski (interviewed by Alex Jones): This Is What A Feminist Looks Like (Julia comes on around 6 minutes and 27 seconds into the show)

  11. Bondurant

    I’ve been reading the works of Gustav Hasford as of late: The Short-Timers and The Phantom Blooper. The previous is the book upon which the film Full Metal Jacket was based. The latter is the further adventures of Private Joker (portrayed by Matthew Modine in the film). It is also a blistering critique of the Viet Nam war and the federal government of these United States of America. Fantastic reads, both. Highly recommended.

    Both are out-of-print and were acquired via interlibrary loan.

  12. Darryl W. Perry

    @Bondurant: Gus was my first cousin-once removed. I never got to meet him before he passed away, however I’m a fan of his work, especially this piece that was originally published in Penthouse.
    My favorite excerpt:

    Do Vietnam veterans feel guilty? Only one individual in ten ever fired a shot in anger. Even Marines in the field rarely knew if they hit anything. Rambo has “59 confirmed kills,” first tour, and scores another 90 during the film, for a total of 149, not counting blood trails, civilians, and water buffalo. My own score was perhaps more typical. In Vietnam I fired more rounds than the Stonewall Brigade fired at the Battle of Gettysburg. I was highly motivated, but my body count was a standing joke: I killed as many of them as they did of me. Looking back with flawless hindsight, I hope I hit nothing but trees, and I hope the trees lived. If I did kill a human being in Vietnam, it was a tragic accident or self-defense; I regret it, but I do not apologize.

  13. Mark Axinn

    >I just went through my copy of the LP News, and I’m delighted to see my state and my own region to be well represented! There’s our state chair Ted Brown on the front page, in a photo taken by my husband…

    Jill–Congrats. to Alan. Nice to see LPC in a good light.

    Personally, I am partial to the photos and article on page 4.

  14. Gene Berkman

    Today, September 8, Sen. Bernie Sanders turns 74! Hilary Clinton will turn 68 on October 26. If Joe Biden enters the race, the Democrat contest for President will become even more geezerrific, as Biden turns 73 on November 20.
    If Hilary Clinton is elected President, she will be as old as Ronald Reagan was when he took his first oath of office as President. If Sen. Sanders or V-P Biden is elected, he will be older when he enters office than President Reagan was when he began his second term in the White House.

  15. Humongous Fungus

    Trump is 69 years old, so it’s not just the Democrats. People are living longer these days. The presidency is increasingly seen as an attractive retirement hobby for today’s active seniors.

  16. Gene Berkman

    Ramsay Muniz ran for Governor of Texas in 1972 and 1974 on the Raza Unida Party ticket, offering an alternative to the Democrats who ran Texas at the time. After his second run for Governor, in which he received 214,000 votes, Mr Muniz was arrested for conspiracy to import several tons of Marijuana into Texas. He is still in prison many years later, older and in declining health. There is a petition @ urging President Obama to grant clemency to Mr Muniz.
    Ramsay Muniz is serving time in prison for a consensual capitalist activity that many people believe is not a crime. Please go to and sign the petition to urge clemency for Ramsay Muniz

  17. paulie

    There should be a better petition site. Whenever you sign anything at moveon, or many if not all the others you get a lot of spam from them. How about a libertarian-leaning petition site? Is there one? If yes, can we put some of these petitions there? If not, anyone want to help create one?

  18. Losty

    Oregon’s Filing Day…
    We Know the Real LPO (Per SOS) will file some candidates
    Will the Judicial Committee’s LPO file any?

  19. Andy

    The Libertarian Party also can’t grow by sending non-libertarian mercenaries out to talk to the public during ballot access drives.

  20. Matt Hasty

    Andy, The only people whose politics that concern us are the candidates. PERIOD!!! Anyone else is a potential VOTE. The fact that so many of us are worried about the beliefs of our neighbors is a little creepy. THE **ONLY** ones of concern to us are the candidates.

  21. Andy

    So the politics of the people out on the street representing the candidates to the public, therefore, actually speaking to the public on behalf of the party, does not matter? Wow, that’s a pretty fucking stupid opinion, and is a prime example of why the Libertarian Party is not more successful.

    If I made a comment that was as stupid as the one above from “Matt Hasty,” I’d hide behind a fake name too.

  22. George Phillies

    The Judicial Committee has issued a majority and a minority report. The majority language

    “Rescinding our ruling in Wes Wagner vs. the Libertarian National Committee leaves standing the 2011 decisions of the Libertarian National Committee and its Executive Committee concerning the Libertarian Party of Oregon. Those decisions found that on May 21, 2011, Tim Reeves was properly elected Chairperson of the Libertarian Party of Oregon in accordance with the Constitution and Bylaws of the Libertarian Party of Oregon then in effect. Therefore, common sense would indicate that any process that respects the Bylaws of the Libertarian Party of Oregon (the March 2009 Bylaws until March 9, 2013 and the March 2013 Bylaws thereafter) should produce a legitimate successor to Tim Reeves as Chairperson.”

    is reasonably interpreted as meaning that the Reeves faction (chair, Mr. Epstein) is momentarily the affiliate. Of course, the Executive Committee could follow the example of the judicial committee and overturn its prior decision.

    The reports are PDFs, but several of the illustrious editorial contributors also have copies and can post them.

  23. Caryn Ann Harlos


    I have not seen these, can you email a copy or link?

    at icloud
    dot com

  24. Andy Craig

    “Of course, the Executive Committee could follow the example of the judicial committee and overturn its prior decision.”

    That would be rich.

  25. Caryn Ann Harlos


    ==That would be rich.==

    Not likely… but it *should*

    Again, not because I think Wagner was right, but simply a matter of National bylaws authority

  26. Wes Wagner

    Back when the executive committee operated outside of its authority, I petitioned the judicial committee to overturn it because the proper process was not followed.

    Now that the judicial committee has exceeded its authority, and it is an agency that was elected directly by the delegates of the various states in convention and there are no additional avenues of appeal, I have floated discussions with my board about cessation of all relations with the national party permanently since that is what has just been offered to us.

  27. paulie

    “Matt Hasty,” I’d hide behind a fake name too.

    It’s a real name. I know Matt. He’s the leading volunteer on the LP social media teams.

  28. NewFederalist

    Unfortunate word that appears behind Huckabee and Davis!


    The photo I see has their hands covering the “o” and the “y”!

  29. Andy

    OK, sorry for accusing Matt Hasty for posting under a fake name, but his comment seemed like it was another one of the troll posts here. It was still an uniformed and shortsighted thing to say, in my opinion.

  30. Caryn Ann Harlos

    Andy, I too know Matt personally and work with him on FB Social Media….. wonderfully dedicated Libertarian.

  31. NewFederalist

    “Rest in peace Moses Malone” – Nathan Norman

    Really? That’s wonderful if you are sincere. I thought you were anti- black as well as anti-Semitic.

  32. paulie

    NF, please do not reply to NN. If you see his comment here it’s only because we haven’t caught it yet, and while there may be nothing wrong with a particular comment he makes it’s only a short matter of time before he starts in with his usual BS. And we would delete it when we catch it, but if it gets a response in the meantime that creates a dilemma, in that we don’t want to leave a response to a comment that is not there or delete comments from legitimate users.

  33. NewFederalist

    Okay, paulie. I just thought it out of character for him to make a comment like that and I wanted to give such reasonableness positive feedback.

  34. paulie

    Fair enough. But the one after that, which is no longer there, was his usual shit. When he posts something nice, decent or reasonable, it’s only to create an opening.

  35. Andy

    Matt Hasty may very well be a swell guy and a dedicated Libertarian activist, but I still disagree with his comment above. I should have been more tactful in my response, but I mistakenly thought that it was another troll post, or that it was one of the regulars here who I have already been through this with posting under a fake name.

  36. George Phillies


    Big Majority Thinks American Politics Is Broken
    September 14, 2015By Taegan Goddard18 Comments

    Washington Post: “A brand new Washington Post-ABC News poll finds that 72 percent of Americans believe that politicians cannot be trusted and two-thirds think the country’s political system is dysfunctional. A not insignificant share of folks openly embrace radicalism: 21 percent of those polled would rather the next president ‘tear down’ the political system and ‘start over’ than try to ‘fix’ it.”

  37. Darryl W. Perry

    Not exactly third party related; however it involves a debate I’m hosting in Keene, NH:
    I’m moderating a mayoral debate on Tuesday that is going to be broadcast live on the local cable access channel. All three mayoral candidates have agreed to participate, though one sitting city councilor is reportedly not happy that the debate is happening. The claim is that because I’m a “Free Stater” and some “Free Staters” have done things that some people don’t like and are outspoken about their politics, the debate will somehow be a “biased, partisan event” that will turn into a debate between me and the candidates. I’m soliciting questions from people in the area, told the newspaper that I’ll ask submitted questions in place of questions I’ve prepared, and so far only one person has bothered to submit a question.
    I find it curious that the people concerned about what I’m going to ask the mayoral candidates have not submitted their own questions.
    I intend to upload the video to YouTube after it airs, and will share the link for anyone interested in watching.

  38. paulie

    The Real Reason Rand Paul is Losing to Trump and Carson: Republican Voters Want Bigger Government


    The answer is Republican voters don’t really want those things. They’re fed up with the GOP leadership, but not because it’s failed to make the government smaller or less powerful. They’re fed up because it hasn’t made the government bigger, in the areas they want it to be bigger.

    Think about what has resonated with Republican voters. It’s been exactly the opposite of what Paul proposes. Trump and Carson supporters have responded enthusiastically to promises of a bigger, more powerful federal government, led by a strong-willed leader who will trample constitutional limits on his power, run a command economy and pursue an activist foreign policy.

    They want more border security and less immigration. Whether illegal or legal, the real resentment towards immigrants is the competition they bring for jobs. Crime and welfare make good headlines, but deep down everyone knows this is just protectionism in the labor market. It’s the opposite of free markets.

    Second only to his immigration stance is Trump’s protectionist stance on international trade. Trump views the world economy the same way 18th century mercantilists viewed it: as a zero sum game with winners and losers. His answer? Higher taxes, in the form of tariffs, to protect less efficient domestic manufacturing. Adam Smith wrote his seminal economic treatise to refute precisely this world view.

    Ben Carson’s most popular position is the mainstream Republican “strengthen the military” mantra. Republican voters want more money spend on the military, even though it remains larger than the next 10 largest national military establishments combined. Contrary to current Republican talking points, the U.S. military has not been cut in decades. Sequestration only decreased the increases in spending. Actual spending still went up every year. Republican voters don’t care. They want more. Let’s face it. No amount would be too much.

    Trump says he’ll dramatically increase spending on the VA. Like all government programs, the VA has serious problems. But Republicans seem unable to apply the logic they apply to federal spending on education or civilian health care to federal spending on health care for veterans. If it’s for the veterans, they’re all for spending more. Again, no amount is too much.

    Even Rand Paul’s stance on NSA data collection is unpopular with these “small government” voters. Regardless of whether you ultimately agree with Chris Christie, Rand Paul bested Christie on this issue in the first debate. Christie based his whole argument for bulk collection on his experience in the FISA court getting warrants on individuals. Paul pointed out the error of logic and Christie offered no substantive response.

    Rhetorically, it was a knockout. Republican voters didn’t care. Fox News told them Christie won the debate and GOP voters were happy to believe it. Why? Because no amount of power given to the federal government in the “War on Terror’ is too much. That’s how they really think. “Terrorists don’t deserve due process.” Counterintuitive? So, what?

    Most importantly, there is nothing Trump or Carson has said that remotely implies they would reduce the reach of the federal government in any area whatsoever or cut federal spending overall. If they have, no one is talking about it. Find a single social media post about how Trump or Carson are going to get the federal government out of any area of our lives. You won’t.

    Forget style, Washington insider vs. outsider, or anything else the media is saying about why Trump and Carson are so far ahead. The real reason is they’re promising a bigger, more interventionist federal government that will wield massive federal power on things Republican voters like, constitutional limits be damned.

  39. Jill Pyeatt

    I’ve seen several claims on Facebook that the world is going to end tomorrow.

    I’d like to thank everyone for their participation here, and for allowing me to post articles on IPR..

    It’s been fun–


  40. Marc Allan Feldman

    Interesting Wikipedia article involving Libertarian candidates. According to Wikipedia, the announced candidates so far are:

    Nathan Norman
    Actor and musician
    (Constitutionally ineligible – under age 35)

    Robert David Steele

    My comment and their response below:
    The Libertarian Party has published its current list of Presidential candidates. The 2016 Presidential candidates currently recognized by the Libertarian Party are:
    •Marc Allan Feldman
    •Darryl Perry
    •Steve Kerbel
    •Rhett Smith
    •Cecil Ince

    None of these candidates are currently listed on the Wiki page. Those listed under Libertarian Party are not currently recognized Libertarian candidates. [1] Mfeldmanmd (talk) 19:20, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

    None of the above candidates have been shown to meet the notability benchmarks of WP:GNG or WP:POLITICIAN, which presently is a prerequisite for inclusion on the page. Currently, there is talk of revising the inclusion standard (see here and here) to make “recognized by the party” a primary factor for inclusion, though I’m not sure that would include candidates not having standalone wikipedia articles. But for the time being anyway, the ones listed in the article meet the benchmark and the ones listed above do not.–NextUSprez (talk) 14:58, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

  41. George Phillies

    From Massachusetts Libertarians: A glory of city life is the anonymity of the crowd. You and friends go about your business, none challenging your right to pass in silence. People you have never met pass you by, going privately about their own business.

    If you write letters to friends or acquaintances, those letters pass through a paper snowstorm of other pieces of mail, 160 billion pieces a year, each piece reaching its destination with the reasonable expectation that no one is watching you. Indeed, the anonymous pamphlet, distributed through the mails, made an important contribution to the American Revolution.

    Yes, there are search warrants letting people read your mail, just as there are warrants to let people search your home. Those are justly rare. Once upon a time there were a few mail covers, in which human beings recorded the address and return address on mail toa few selected individuals.

    Now all has changed.

    Thanks to computer technology, the Post Office photographs every single piece of mail as it passes through the system. The order in which letters are scanned tells the post office where and when each letter in the system was mailed. Post office records are deleted after a month, but by then the national surveillance state has had ample time to copy the files.

    Your mail anonymity is gone, destroyed by the national surveillance state.

    Oh, by the way, many envelopes are opaque to normal light but transparent to infrared or ultraviolet light. Do not assume that your mail is not being read.

    Do you want your privacy back? If you do, the national surveillance state must be dismantled, its machines scrapped, its records obliterated, its staff sent on their way.

    Do not let national surveillance people claim they are protecting you. They will say that, but they are lying.They are endangering you, your family, and our American way of life.

    And how do you get that result? You write your Congressman, and your state legislators, promising that they will vote the surveillance state out of existence, or you will be voting for their opponent. Then you keep your promise.

    This being Massachusetts, you need to start by making sure that your Congressman *has* an opponent. We’re the Libertarian Party. We’re here to help.

  42. Mark Axinn

    Anyone know a way to cause crap from Cruz to go to Rubio and vice versa?

    Even better would be to cause both of their junk emails to go to Trump.

  43. Wang Tang-Fu

    Mark Axinn:

    Make a note of the PO Box or street address that you want their mail to go to.

    Then send it to the address that is sending you the mail with that as your return address. Write them a letter asking them to update their records of where they are mailing you. Tell them it takes a while for the mail to be forwarded and you want to get it right away. Put the corrected address without any campaign name to give it away in the body of the letter.

    Enclose a check for something trivial, like a dollar or even a penny. Cross off your address if it appears on the check and write in your “new” address.

    Follow it up with a phone call and an email to make sure they got your message. Mention that you are considering a substantial donation but want to make sure they correct your address first.

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