Caryn Ann Harlos speaks for Will Coley at LP convention

IPR’s Caryn Ann Harlos spoke for Libertarian Party vice presidential candidate Will Coley at the LP national convention this past weekend (6 minute video):

42 thoughts on “Caryn Ann Harlos speaks for Will Coley at LP convention

  1. Kevin Bjornson

    A passionate speech, but she got 3/4 the way through before she even gave a reason for supporting Coley.
    That reason? Affirmative action for Muslims, an under-represented group in the US and the LP.

    Her other reason is, she feels that Coley is more libertarian than Weld. Perhaps that could be true, if we don’t count Coley’s support for Sharia law (which applies not just to voluntary Muslims, but to all). I don’t care to live under Sharia, even if the economy might be more free for Muslims.

    Coley came to the LP only after noticing some Tea Partiers are anti-Sharia. He came here to neutralize infidel opposition to Sharia. Islam is his main focus. Economic freedom he probably views instrumentally, as a way to empower a Muslim society, much like Christian right-wingers who want a strong US economy but also government-enforced social conservatism.

  2. Phil Gerber

    “Sharia law (which applies not just to voluntary Muslims, but to all)”

    Really? Where did you get your degree in Islamic Jurisprudence, if I may ask? And are you referring to the Maliki, Hanafi, Hanbali, Shafi’i, or Jafari madhhab?

    Also, do you have any real evidence that Mr. Coley is part of the vast Islamist conspiracy to take over the world and condemn all us unbelievers to dhimmitudinal servitude, or are you just pulling this out of your ass?

  3. Kevin Bjornson

    He favors Sharia law. Which is opposite to natural law.

    Yes, I have studied the issue. I’m not impressed by degrees, and doubt that Islamic schools would long tolerate an infidel in their midst. So your suggestion, even if serious, is a non-starter.

    I don’t have a degree in Nazism either, but have studied the issue. Hitler was allied with the grand mufti of Jerusalem, who organized two all-Muslim SS brigades.

    Do you have a degree in libertarianism? No? Yet you speak as if you know the topic..

    I’ve read hundreds of articles and viewed dozens of videos on the Shlaria issue.

    Almost all Muslims have the same basic texts, which contain numerous troublesome passages. Unlike with Judeo-christianity, these have not been modified by higher criticism.

  4. Kevin Bjornson

    Here’s a small introductory sample, please enjoy reading/analyzing
    (from Wiki on Sharia):

    “Sharia is a significant source of legislation in many Muslim countries where some countries apply a majority or some of the sharia code, and these include Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Brunei, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Yemen and Mauritania. In these countries, sharia-prescribed punishments such as beheading, flogging and stoning continue to be practiced judicially or extra-judicially. There has been controversy over what some perceive as a movement by various Islamist groups to introduce and implement sharia throughout the world, including in Western countries, but attempts to impose sharia have been accompanied by controversy, violence, and even warfare.”

    “The concept of crime, judicial process, justice and punishment embodied in sharia is different from that of secular law. The differences between sharia and secular law have led to an ongoing controversy as to whether sharia is compatible with secular forms of government, human rights, freedom of thought, and women’s rights.”

  5. Phil Gerber

    “I don’t have a degree in Nazism either, but have studied the issue. Hitler was allied with the grand mufti of Jerusalem, who organized two all-Muslim SS brigades.”

    Apparently you didn’t study it enough. The number of Muslims who fought for the allies – Britain and France particularly, in the units recruited from their overseas colonies – outnumbered those who wore SS uniforms by several orders of magnitude. And anyhoo, the one Waffen-SS division that was recruited was always understrength, poorly equipped, and was never trusted enough to be sent into actual combat.

    “Almost all Muslims have the same basic texts, which contain numerous troublesome passages. Unlike with Judeo-christianity, these have not been modified by higher criticism.”

    This is why I asked if you have a degree, or at least some kind of education from any credible source. I was not being flippant. There is no shortage of anti-Muslim websites and videos and speakers’ bureaus – all the product of a propaganda industry funded by tens of millions of dollars annually from shady ‘foundations’. Buying into their bullshit doesn’t make you an expert on Islam any more than reading Mein Kampf makes you an expert on Jews. Without some base of knowledge that isn’t coming from people being paid to make stuff up, it is impossible for you to make any real effort to discern what is true and what is false when you’re watching your videos.

    To your specific point here, in fact there is an overwhelmingly extensive body of literature which interprets and contextualizes (I expect most Christians and Jews would also take great exception to your wording of ‘critics’ who “modify” the Torah and the New Testament) those “troublesome passages” (many of which are very deliberately *mis*interpreted by the “experts” you rely on). Obviously, you are completely ignorant of this – which means you are, in fact, talking out of your ass.

  6. Deran

    Mr Bjornson, instead of reading more conspiracy prittle-prattle it would behoove you to study up on how the Irish, Italians, Chinese, Roman Catholics, Mormons, etc were talked about by the nativist Know Nothings of the day. You will be surprised how similar that hate propoganda sounds to the prittle-prattle islamaphobes nowadays spout.

    Your sort of Know Nothing nativism is farore of a threat to our republic than the bogeyman of “Sharia law” taking over the United States.

  7. Caryn Ann Harlos

    I had limited time- my main thrust was for a candidate that would represent more of the radical base – and pointed out that reaching more people would help.

  8. langa

    Do you have a degree in libertarianism?

    I don’t know of any school that offers such a degree. I do, however, have a BA in Political Science, and I completed all the coursework required for an MA in Political Theory (though I never finished my thesis). In doing so, I wrote numerous papers on libertarianism, including ones analyzing the thought of Locke, Hayek, Nozick, and other prominent libertarian scholars. Is that good enough for you?

    Anyway, ignorant propaganda aside, there’s no reason why Sharia law is inherently incompatible with a free society. In fact, according to this article, Medina, in the time of Muhammad, was a diverse society composed of Muslims, Jews, and Pagans living together in a polycentric legal order, quite similar to the ones envisioned by many radical libertarians:

    http://www.muslims4liberty.org/is-libertarianism-compatible-with-islam/

  9. Kevin Bjornson

    I am a libertarian. At least enough to know, that coercing people to join a cult is not libertarian. That is one of the things that Sharia law can do, and has done, repeatedly in history and to this day.

    I do not indulge in disrespect, and use vulgar language like “ass” to describe those with whom i disagree. Nor do I claim an indisputable monopoly to the “radical” title, refuse to debate those with whom i disagree, and then bar them from discussion unless they already agree.

  10. Kevin Bjornson

    The Muslims who fought for Britain and France were, as you say, part of the regular colonial army. At the time, Germany had no such colonial armies; the Muslims who fought for them, were volunteers and recruited by a fanatically anti-Jewish leader, the grand mufti of Jerusalem, who had previously organized pogroms in Palaestina. They joined for religious reasons, not because they were colonial subjects and nominal Muslims.

    Sure, that SS division was under-supplied. As were most of the German forces. That’s where the term “Jerry-rigged” came from. Germans made do with what they had, which wasn’t sufficient to win. Which is why they lost.

  11. Kevin Bjornson

    Phil has already pre-judged my sources, even though the only two i cited were introductory passages from Wikipedia. No matter how much evidence I provide, it will never be enough, because Phil already knows the truth. Do you have a degree in Islamic studies? Virtually all the programs are funded from islamist sources, such as Saudi Arabia, which also funds terrorists and hate propaganda. Those who oppose that, are the “shady” ones?

    Sharia law is based on religious faith, and imposes itself on infidels as well as believers. Do you deny that people are murdered for apostasy, stoned for adultery, in the name of Sharia? A law that is spelled out in Islamic holy texts.

  12. Kevin Bjornson

    Phil, your version of history is incomplete. There are two versions of Islam, the Meccan and Medinan.
    As you say, during the Medina stage, Islam preached tolerance. But very few converted voluntarily. About 150 did so.

    The real success came from raiding caravans to Mecca, and murdering or raping those Jews and other infidels they got along with so famously in the earlier stage. Which explains why there is no Jewish, pagan, or Christian community in Saudi Arabia today.

    Here is a good text on the topic, from Dr. Warner, a physicist who now studies political Islam:

    https://www.politicalislam.com/fundamental-errors/

  13. Jill Pyeatt

    Kevin, we’ve had millions of Muslims living in the country for years. Why do you think they’re going to suddenly take over?

  14. Kevin Bjornson

    Phil seems very proud of his studies for his unfinished MA degree. Generally i don’t focus on degree or schooling, as i have seen the low levels to which liberal arts generally have descended.

    Often, academicians resent businessmen, who achieve things in the real world, and seem to often get more rewards than those who pride themselves on academic pedigree.

    but since Phil asked about my academic background, I will say, I too studied Austrian economists at my own unfinished MA. Also liberal philosophers at accredited undergraduate college courses.

    But actually, I learned far more in the real world, and by independent study.

    Since Phil knows so much, perhaps he would care to tell us, where and when did the theory of non-interventionism arise? Who were the first libertarian thinkers, what did they call their theory, and how did it evolve?

  15. Andy

    Jill, I like Coley, and he even won me over at the convention and I voted for him, but in the name of accuracy, Muslims are .9% of the US population (as in less than 1%, and this is after increased Muslim immigration in recent years/I just looked it up).

    Going by my own anecdotal evidence, when I have encountered Muslims while gathering petition signatures for the LP, their response to libertarianism is usually pretty hostile (there are exceptions of course). I have had Muslims scream at me after they found out that Libertarians think that gays should be able to marry. I have encountered more than one Muslim who said that gays should be rounded up and executed.

    This notion that everyone on the planet is the same and we can all get along is a fantasy that had no bearing in reality. Ideology matters, and you won’t have freedom unless you surround yourself with a critical mass of people who actually want freedom (and this means getting away from most Democrats and Republicans too).

  16. Kevin Bjornson

    Andy made some good points, though I do not think they lead to his conclusion (support for Coley).

    We discover natural law through reason. Muslims believe in Sharia law, through religious faith. That the two methods come to nearly opposite conclusions is not surprising.

    What is ironic, is that “radical” libertarians are OK with Johnson, who would force bakers to make and sell cakes for gay weddings; and also OK with Muslims, who tend overwhelmingly to side with Christian fundamentalists that gay marriages are wrong.

    That does not mean, Sharia is libertarian. Because Sharia would outlaw not just sale of goods intended for gay weddings, they also oppose gay weddings and gay relationships, and would punish or execute offenders:

    https://islamqa.info/en/38622

    As a general rule, the sale of goods, for whatever purpose, should be neither required nor prohibited.

  17. Andy

    I voted for Coley on the first ballot for VP because I believe that he is very pro-liberty, and because he was a very passionate and persuasive speaker. I voted for Larry Sharpe on the second ballot. Sharpe also impressed me, and I would have been happy with either one as our VP candidate.

  18. Kevin Bjornson

    Coley is primarily Islamic. He favors liberty instrumentally, to the extent it helps Islam.
    His faith encourages him to lie for the sake of Islam; this doctrine is called “taqiya”.

    He is passionate in his support of liberty, within an Islamic context. Similarly,
    “Islam” is said to mean “peace”, but only the peace that comes after submission to Islam.

    Islam is a political ideology with a religious element. Like Nazism, which has pagan and occult roots. Coley claims, the political part is pro-liberty. However, in every example where Sharia has been implemented, infidels have been oppressed. Liberal elements within Islam are few and far between.

    So, Coley supports some kind of different Sharia, that exists in his imagination but has no examples
    from the real world. He could as easily promote a different kind of Nazism, that wouldn’t have the bad
    aspects from the real-world example of Nazism.

  19. Phil Gerber

    ” They joined for religious reasons, not because they were colonial subjects and nominal Muslims. ”

    Really? Where’s the evidence for your claim? Do you have documentation from primary sources to that effect from these SS recruits? The reality is that Muslims saved (tens of?) thousands of Jews from the Holocaust. The largest Mosque in Paris secreted scores or hundreds of French Jews until they could be smuggled out to safety. Albania’s (which I imagine I need to point out to you is a predominately Muslims country) Jewish community had one of the highest survival rates of any of the Jewish communities in Europe.

    “unfinished MA degree”

    Bzzzt! Wrong on both.

    “Do you have a degree in Islamic studies? Virtually all the programs are funded from islamist sources, such as Saudi Arabia, which also funds terrorists and hate propaganda. Those who oppose that, are the “shady” ones?”

    Once again, you’re full of shit and have no clue what you’re talking about. At the university where I got my undergrad (a degree in history with an unofficial emphasis on Islamic Civ), the Islamic history classes were all taught by an elderly chain-smoking liquor-drinking white guy who went to an Epicoscopalian (IIRC) Church every Sunday. If you look at prominent experts on Islamic history in America, you will strangely find that the vast majority of them aren’t even Muslims. Man, those Saudis are really good about covering their tracks – their operatives have all suckered the world into believing they’re not even Muslims!

    “As you say, during the Medina stage, Islam preached tolerance. But very few converted voluntarily. About 150 did so.”

    Actually, I haven’t said it – you’re reading ahead on your list of talking points. As for the claim that only 150 converted voluntarily, this is way off. Two years after the Hijrah (and before there was any of these supposed fantastical riches gotten by looting the people who had driven the Muslims from their original homes and deprived them of their property) the Muslims community numbered over a thousand. To put that in perspective, the population of Mecca at the time was almost certainly less than 20,000. I imagine if 5-10% of Americans converted to Islam tomorrow, you would not describe that as “very few”.

    “there is no Jewish, pagan, or Christian community in Saudi Arabia today. ”

    Wrong. Saudi Arabia has a fairly large community of ‘foreign guest workers’ that are largely Christian and Hindu. And anyhoo, why anyone would want to live in Saudi Arabia – Muslim or not – is a far more relevant question to be asking.

    “Here is a good text on the topic, from Dr. Warner, a physicist who now studies political Islam:”

    LOL, do you also turn to historians to get your expert knowledge about physics? I guess this explains a lot.

    “Often, academicians resent businessmen, who achieve things in the real world, and seem to often get more rewards than those who pride themselves on academic pedigree. ”

    Wrong again. I actually was a businessman far longer than I was in academia. You’re batting like 0 and 20 here – I’m actually starting to feel sorry for you.

    “Because Sharia would outlaw not just sale of goods intended for gay weddings, they also oppose gay weddings and gay relationships, and would punish or execute offenders”

    Yeah, “they” are all so universally opposed to homosexuality that the Ottoman Empire legalized homosexuality a hundred years before Britain and America, and Muslim poetry is replete with all kinds of gay love affairs. Gay Muslim rulers took little effort to hide their sexual orientation. But we can’t let facts get in the way of our broad generalization about a religion followed by over a billion people that stretches back over fourteen centuries.

    “I do not indulge in disrespect, and use vulgar language like “ass” to describe those with whom i disagree”

    LOL! You are hilarious. You have no qualms about accusing someone without the slightest shred of evidence of being part of a grand conspiracy to take over the world and kill billions of people, but you’re offended at being described as an ass. You make a dozen posts with made-up BS claims to demonize people who aren’t around to defend themselves, then you cry fowl when someone points out how full of it you are. Your sense of fairness is definitely in need of re-calibration. I probably won’t bother responding to your next round, so you can get the last word in, but hopefully anyone else reading this has gotten the point and won’t be taking you seriously anyways.

  20. Kevin Bjornson

    Phil–there you go again. Using the “shit” word in debate, on the heels of your “ass” reference. Do you honestly believe that you are right to use foul language, just because we disagree on Islam? Where is your anger coming from, and why the repeated scatological references?

    I said, many Islamic degrees and programs in the US are funded by Saudis, who also fund terrorism. Do you mean to say, you dispute that? Really?

    Your shotgun approach to debate is tiring, as you provide no references for your claims, which we are supposed to take on faith because you have taken college courses; but I must prove all my claims down to primary sources. Very well, here is documentation of the funding:

    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=213
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/10340
    http://college.usatoday.com/2015/09/13/yale-islamic-law-center/
    and so on, I could cite dozens more articles.

  21. Kevin Bjornson

    I don’t think church-going, whiskey-drinking, cigarette smoking, etc., are qualifications for a professor, so am not impressed by your “unofficial emphasis” on Islamic history. I didn’t say, every single college course is funded by the Saudis, Quatar, etc. Though since your professor was elderly, probably he doesn’t teach any more. Who teaches those courses now?

    I said, the Muslims who fought for the allies (in WWII) did so as part of a colonial army. Yet you dispute that too, even though I practically parroted your own comments:

    “The number of Muslims who fought for the allies – Britain and France particularly, in the units recruited from their overseas colonies – …”

    The colonial armies for which they fought, were not all-Muslim or anti-Jewish; like the SS divisions the grand mufti organized for Hitler.

  22. Kevin Bjornson

    Concerning the first 13 years of islam, in Mecca: as you point out, they were a minority, perhaps 5-10%
    You provide no sources for your claim, and dispute my lower figure. As if there were accurate census records for that time/place, particularly when broken down by religion. Yet, for the sake of discussion, I will accept your figures (a few hundred higher than mine) as they still prove my claim they were in the minority, and this explains their emphasis on peaceful persuasion.

    But after moving to Medina, Muslims there were the vast majority, and the aggressive Jihad began.
    The vast majority of references to “Jihad” were from this aggressive period.

    You sniff that Dr. Warner is a physicist, and doesn’t have an Islamic degree. Yet you don’t have such a degree either. (Not clear if you even have an M.A. in history, as that usually requires a dissertation.) He is a trained scientist, and uses statistical methods to analyze Islam. For instance, Islamic holy texts have a higher proportion of Jew-hatred language than Mein Kampf.

  23. Kevin Bjornson

    Concerning gay rights in the Islamic world, I realize there are more gays there, due to their segregation of the sexes, covering up of women, restrictions on movement of unmarried women, etc. Perhaps the late Ottoman empire was more liberal, but the Sharia penalty for gay sex is quite severe. In the real world as it exists today. Do you seriously dispute that? Here is evidence:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/02/24/here-are-the-10-countries-where-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death/

    Of the 10 countries today where gay sex has a death penalty, all are Islamic countries.

    You claim, Saudi Arabia has non-Muslim communities, guest workers. What happened to native christians, pagans and jews, who used to live there? What if America were run by a hereditary in-bred Christian aristocracy; non-Christians were forbidden to be in the two largest cities; and about the only non-Christians living in America, were imported guest workers, who have no voting rights?

    Coley was raised in the bible belt, by bible-thumping christian parents. His migration to Islam is not an improvement.

  24. Kevin Bjornson

    Caryn did a video criticizing Austin Petersen for bad language, like calling people “stupid”. I hadn’t heard him using such language, but accepted her story, and that was one of the reasons I didn’t support Austin at first.

    But notice, Caryn is silent on Phil’s use of worse language.

    I had assumed that Phil to be an academician, due to his emphasis on college courses and his apparent requirement that I have a related college degree in order to comment on this particular topic. A standard he doesn’t apply to himself.

    There are double standards here. If you want an echo chamber, why post something in an open forum like this one? Why react with such visceral hostility to dissenting views?

    I realize that online comments tend to be more combative. Because we don’t experience other people in the flesh, but are simply interacting with words on a screen. But still, I had expected better, from self-described libertarians.

  25. Phil Gerber

    “Phil–there you go again. Using the “shit” word in debate, on the heels of your “ass” reference. Do you honestly believe that you are right to use foul language, just because we disagree on Islam? Where is your anger coming from, and why the repeated scatological references?”

    #SorryNotSorry.

    You want to know why I’m pissed off? I’ll tell you.

    A few years ago, someone just like you who received the “real truth about Islam” from the internet slaughtered 77 people – mostly little kids at a summer camp – in Norway. You sound just like him, with your fake ‘experts’, links to semi-news stories that you think mean Saudi Arabia has taken over American universities, and your theory that it was actually a Muslim – not the Nazis – who was the real architect of the Holocaust. You claim a candidate for the LP VP nomination is part of a conspiracy to take over the country, impose “Sharia law” and kill billions of people – including, I imagine, some who have posted on this thread – citing as “evidence” nothing more than the fact that he’s part of a religion that is the object of your paranoid delusions.

    Reading between the lines with people like you, the ultimate answer to the Muslim Question is clear. They can’t assimilate, they’re not going to stop until they kill or subjugate all non-believers, yadda yadda yadda. Obviously, we’re supposed to go round them up and kill them all. Nuke the countries they came from. Because that’s the only way we can deal with this mortal threat to civilization.

    I speak to you with disrespect because you don’t deserve any. You’re a delusional whackjob, and in another time and place you would’ve been sitting with your buds in some Munich bar late at night ranting about the threat of the Judeo-Bolshevists, secretly hoping for the day when you, too, could kill one of those child-killing blood-drinking threats to Western Civilization. I suspect the only reason you haven’t gone and bombed a mosque or shot some guy in a turban at the nearest 7-11 is because you’re also – fortunately – a coward. Your emotional commitment to your Islam-trutherism is such that there is no hope of persuading you, but my fear is that some casual bystander might read this thread and make the mistake of taking you seriously if he doesn’t see anyone pointing out just how ridiculous and absurd your claims are.

    That’s really the only reason I’m here. Believe me, I have other things I’d rather be doing.

  26. Jill Pyeatt

    I find it to be sad and a bit disingenuous that Kevin writes out long, paranoid comments filled with nastiness about a large group of people, yet claims to have issues with a few unsavory words.

    It’s the content of a comment that I care about. I find Kevin’s to be so unpleasant and incorrect that I won’t be reading any more of them.

  27. Phil Gerber

    Now, to this round of claims:

    “Very well, here is documentation of the funding:”

    Actually, your original claim was that ” Virtually all the [Islamic] programs [at universities] are funded from islamist sources, such as Saudi Arabia”. But your first cite isn’t even talking about university programs; it’s an alleged plot to Islamize K-12. Your second and third cites both claim donations made in the hundreds of millions to universities over (apparently) several decades, but considering that tens or hundreds of billions that are spent on American universities annually, this is the metaphorical drop in a bucket.

    “Sharia law is based on religious faith, and imposes itself on infidels as well as believers.”

    Wrong again. Historically (and like all broad generalizations, there are exceptions), Muslim countries have allowed non-Muslim communities to run themselves in return for paying a share of the cost of their defense. In the Ottoman Empire, for instance, this took the form of the Millet system – where every non-Muslim community set up their own civil and judicial systems with minimal oversight from the Ottoman authorities.

    “I said, the Muslims who fought for the allies (in WWII) did so as part of a colonial army”

    Actually, *I* said this. You were obviously completely ignorant of this little factoid. I’m glad you’ve accepted it, however.

    “You provide no sources for your claim, and dispute my lower figure.”

    My sources are in a bunch of boxes that need to be unpacked. You provided no source for your claim, either. Considering that the Muslim army numbered 300 at Badr – which didn’t even include all the men – and adding the women & children, the idea that only 150 emigrated to Medina is absurd.

    “He is a trained scientist, and uses statistical methods to analyze Islam. For instance, Islamic holy texts have a higher proportion of Jew-hatred language than Mein Kampf.”

    Really? I made the mistake of following the link you provided. It’s more ridiculous crap. Exactly 9,282 words/16.9% of the “Medinan Koran” is anti-Jewish? A claim provided with no supporting documentation, and is obviously just made up to anyone who has actually bothered to read the thing. If that were actually the case, there would be no room left over for all those long boring passages on Muslim inheritance laws. He also claims that “‘no compulsion in religion’ is an early verse”. Presumably, he’s referring to 2:256, but Surah 2 was one of the last to be revealed, from the late Medina period! Apparently, your physicist thinks the Surahs of the Quran are arranged chronologically – a mistake from ignorance if ever there was one. If this is the caliber of the experts you are relying on, it’s no wonder you’re so misinformed.

    “But after moving to Medina, Muslims there were the vast majority, and the aggressive Jihad began.”

    LOL, your Dr. Warner says that half the population of Medina was Jewish. Apparently, you don’t even bother to read your own source. How sad.

    “The vast majority of references to “Jihad” were from this aggressive period. ”

    Yes, they were so aggressive they were constantly fighting the Meccan armies trying to conquer Medina and exterminate them. At Badr, Uhud, and The Trench the Muslims were all on defense.

    “Of the 10 countries today where gay sex has a death penalty, all are Islamic countries. ”

    Umm… Nigeria is a majority Christian country. And the claim that “all are Islamic countries” is nowhere made in the article you linked to. Are you really this stupid? Or just lazy? And at any rate, as your Physicist “expert” on Islam should be able to point out through a statistical analysis, MOST Islamic countries do NOT have a death penalty for homosexuality according to your article.

    “I had assumed that Phil to be an academician, due to his emphasis on college courses and his apparent requirement that I have a related college degree in order to comment on this particular topic.”

    Where did I require you to have a college degree to comment? I was asking to see if you had any kind of education from a credible source (which need not have included a university). It is obvious you do not, instead relying on bigoted anti-Muslim propaganda websites that you’re apparently just skimming through.

  28. Kevin Bjornson

    Jill and Phil appear to be appalled that I would have the rudeness to criticize a mass movement. Apparently this logic applies only to Islam, unless Nazism and communism too are exempt from criticism. Many millions were true believers and enablers of those murderous ideologies. Yet Islam has equivalent numbers of victims in history (such as the conquest of India), and the religiously-inspired force-initiation continues to this day.

    Phil imagines me in a Munich bar, muttering about Judeo-communists like a Nazi. That goes beyond “shit” and “ass”. Now I am like a Nazi, and would be a mass murderer if I were not a “coward”.

    In other words, if I don’t sign off a clean bill of health for Islam, I am beyond the pale, and a legitimate target of his repeated anal references. Coupled with his extreme hostility, this does raise concerns about his emotional stability and the appropriateness of his anal fixation.

  29. Kevin Bjornson

    I don’t think being a candidate for the LP VP nomination provides any kind of exemption from criticism.
    In many ways, Bill Weld is as bad; he’s not remotely a libertarian, and endorsed Obama.

    Now Phil accuses me of conspiracy-mongering, when i say that Coley wants to impose Sharia law. But Coley does favor Sharia, while asserting: “There are no Sharia compliant countries on the face of the Earth today.”

    Where have we heard that kind of thing before? Socialism has been tried many times, and always failed. Yet, true believers assert, that wasn’t true socialism.

  30. Kevin Bjornson

    So, he provides no examples of the Sharia he favors, except those lost in the mists of time. We are supposed to become scholars of history. Yet how many have time for that? I’m not getting paid to write here, much less to delve into his many historical assertions. Like Phil’s shotgun approach, I have to become a full-time scholar to refute them all.

  31. Kevin Bjornson

    Is Coley an expert at history? He has a habit of attributing all things good in the west, to Islam. Here he is,
    asserting that:

    http://www.examiner.com/article/transcript-of-interview-with-william-coley-of-muslims-for-liberty
    ” When the King of France set up the first jury system he openly stated that it was modeled on the system used by the Saracens, the Muslims in Palestine.”

    However, that is counter-factual:

    http://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-17-4-b-when-roman-law-ruled-the-western-world
    “Around 80 B.C., toward the end of the republic, the government created jury courts that specialized in particular crimes. Each court had a presiding judge and up to 75 jury members, who were chosen by lot to decide a case. At first, only patrician senators could serve as jurors, but later, juries included men from other propertied classes.”

  32. Kevin Bjornson

    There is a doctrine in Islam, called “Taqiya”. Essentially, this instructs obedient Muslims that they may lie to protect Islam.

    Coley claims, he is for the internal Jihad, not the Jihad that slaughters infidels. That does seem an odd choice of words, from a marketing viewpoint. Is he telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

  33. Kevin Bjornson

    Here is Coley, talking about our fearless leader, Gary Johnson:

    https://amthirdpartyreport.com/2016/06/05/will-coley-on-gary-johnson-if-he-lives-up-to-his-word-ill-do-what-i-can-to-put-our-activists-behind-him/

    “He also took notes on my platform of changing the conversation, and adopting the language used by people like Hamza Yusuf, Yasir Qadhi, Zaid Shakir, and Suhaib Webb when discussing groups like al qaeda and ISIS”

    Hmmm…I’d be interested to learn what new “language” Coley would have people adopt; perhaps he would join our conversation and answer questions. In the meantime, let me ask, who is Suhaib Webb?

  34. Kevin Bjornson

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suhaib_Webb
    “According to FBI surveillance documents, Webb joined Al Qaeda operative Anwar Awlaki (killed by U.S drone strike in 2011) two days before 9/11 in headlining a fundraiser on behalf of H Rap Brown (aka Jamil al Amin), who had been accused of murdering a sheriff’s deputy and wounding another deputy in Georgia the year before. That night, Webb and Awlaki raised $100,000 to pay for Brown’s defense. Brown was found guilty of the murder and was unanimously denied an appeal by Georgia’s Supreme Court.”

    “The Islamic Society of Boston Cultural Center (ISBCC) confirmed that Webb had in fact worked with Anwar Awlaki but claimed Webb did not know the full extent of al-Awlaki’s terrorist agenda when Webb was “working with him (Awlaki).”’

  35. Kevin Bjornson

    Nor is that Coley’s only second-hand link to terrorists. Another of his mentors, is a person I’ve known for many years, and have respected greatly in the past. He helped me when he was on the LNC (I believe it used to be called NatCom). In the eighties, he was the only honest person on the national board. In my capacity as an international activist, i arranged scholarships for his son and daughter-in-law, to a liberty camp in Sweden.

    He goes by another name now, I knew him as Dean Ahmad. Here is Coley, promoting Dean:

    http://www.muslims4liberty.org/islam-and-liberty/

  36. Kevin Bjornson

    I first noticed the change in Dean, when he gave a talk at the ISIL conference in Vilnius. He was supposed to be part of a debate, instead we got an hour-long one-sided diatribe against Israel, that sought to put terrorism against Israelis in context, viewed through Islamist lenses.

    Go to Dean’s website, Minaret of Freedom. There, he proudly posts a photo of himself, with Hezbollah leaders at an Islamist conference in Beirut. There also, he talks about his third conference, that had Sami al-Arian as feautured speaker. I do have a problem with that, in view of Sami’s federal conviction for funding terrorism.

  37. Kevin Bjornson

    Elsewhere, Coley was asked, does he acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist. He answered, no, he doesn’t believe in any “states”. Seriously.

    This is similar to other “anarcho-capitalists”, who claim they oppose all government, but then define “government” in such a way as to exclude rightful gov’t, that would be limited to defensive-retaliatory force, and would organize force socially to counter organized aggression.

    Of course he opposes nation-states. That doesn’t mean, he doesn’t want force to be socially organized. He simply calls his proposed government by another name. “Caliphate”?

  38. Kevin Bjornson

    Phil, there is no way I have time to research and refute all your points. Easy to make assertions, longer to refute. You make so many, none with documentation. While you demand I document everything I say, down to primary sources.

    As Dr. Warner points out, the Koran is not arranged chronologically. It is arranged by length of the chapters, so that only dedicated scholars may see the whole picture in context.

    Warner’s point is, when Islam is weak, they tend to preach tolerance, and try for temporary peace called “Hudna”. But when they are strong, they preach the external Jihad. The vast majority of references to “Jihad” as to the external Jihad, which in most cases, consists of aggression.

  39. Kevin Bjornson

    Of course, and fortunately, Islamic studies comprise but a small fraction of the vast sums of money wasted in US academia. But most of the funding is from Islamic sources, particularly Arabia, flush with oil money from their nationalization of the oil infrastructure (built by western companies). So, besides the usual left-wing bias found in liberal arts academic generally, there is now bias from the funding source. This is why I find Phil’s line of inquiry (if i have studied Islam at school) odd, if not disingenuous.

  40. Jill Pyeatt

    Kevin, you might want to stop posting long enough to notice that you’re talking to yourself. Phil hasn’t been on this thread for a while.

  41. Kevin Bjornson

    Jill, perhaps you didn’t notice, but my last posts were dated June 7 or 8 (posted around midnight). Because when i try to post longer, I get timed out. Which is why I break them up into short posts.
    Phil seems able to make longer posts, perhaps he has a better internet connection.

    Phil wrote last on June 4. I didn’t respond right away, because I have other things to do.

    Phil is interesting to me, because he is a challenging debater, and his IQ is above 100. I wasn’t able to respond to your posts, I don”t think you intend to debate. Though I thank you for not using gutter language, I don’t understand why you seem to feel his language justified by my opinion.

    Phil can easily make unreferenced points, he makes many, and to refute them takes more work.

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