By Chuck Baldwin, 2008 Constitution Party Presidential Candidate
ChuckBaldwinLive.com
During Patrick Henry’s famous “Give me liberty or give me death” speech, he said the following:
“Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth and listen to the song of that siren, till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst and to provide for it.”
Later in his historic speech Henry said, “Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, Sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, Sir, is not to the strong alone. It is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, Sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable. And let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come!”
Of course, Henry ended his stirring speech with the immortal words, “Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!”
(The complete text of Patrick Henry’s immortal address on March 23, 1775, is found in my giant compilation of great, historic documents called THE FREEDOM DOCUMENTS, which may be ordered exclusively at http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/products.html )
Many people today (including the vast majority of my Christian brethren) are doing exactly what Patrick Henry said many were doing 234 years ago: they prefer to “shut [their] eyes against a painful truth.” Just as in 1775, many today, “having eyes, see not, and having ears, hear not.”
Serious students of history, however, cannot mistake the similarities between the British Crown in 1775 and the federal government in Washington, D.C., today. In fact, I would argue that federal usurpations of State sovereignty, personal liberty, and constitutional government are far more egregious today than at any time during the reign of old King George III. Were America’s Founding Fathers alive today, they would have waged another war for independence years ago. Compared to the violations of liberty by the federal government in 2009, the abridgements of liberty committed by the Crown in 1775 were miniscule. We should all hang our heads in shame that we have not already exerted our right and responsibility as free people to “throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for [our] future security” (Declaration of Independence, Paragraph 2). Were we as righteous as our forebears, we would have already done so.
If we were writing a Declaration of Independence today, in which we would “let Facts be submitted to a candid world,” the examples of federal abuse of power would be so multitudinous it would be difficult to contain them to a single document. The question is not, “Has the current federal government become tyrannical?” The question is, “How long will the States continue to tolerate it?”
For example, within the last couple of months, the States of Montana and Tennessee have each passed their own “Firearms Freedom Act.” Briefly stated, the bills provide that any firearms or ammunition that are manufactured, sold, and kept within the State are not subject to federal law or federal regulation. Clearly, Montana and Tennessee have the Second, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution on their side.
Of course, the Constitution doesn’t matter to the federal government. On July 16 of this year, BATFE Assistant Director Carson Carroll sent an “Open Letter” to all firearms dealers within the States of Tennessee and Montana, telling them in no uncertain terms, “Federal law supersedes the [Tennessee or Montana] Act, and all provisions of the Gun Control Act and the National Firearms Act, and their corresponding regulations, continue to apply.”
You see folks, in the minds of the politicians and bureaucrats in Washington, D.C., there is no such thing as constitutional government. There is no such thing as State autonomy. There is no such thing as balance of power. To the miscreants in Washington, D.C., there is only federal authority. To them, these States United are merely colony-subjects, who must bow to an omnipotent, ubiquitous federal power that knows no limits and no boundaries.
I hope and pray that the Tennessee and Montana governors, State legislatures, and State supreme courts will tell Mr. Carroll “where to go,” and will defend their State sovereignties “to the end.” And by the same token, I hope and pray that dozens more states will put teeth to their State Sovereignty resolutions and follow the examples of Montana and Tennessee.
Add to the continual usurpations of State sovereignty the fact that both the Republican and Democratic parties in Washington, D.C., have allowed our once-great free enterprise system to become a giant socialist economy, and the outlook only gets bleaker. This is why Republicans in D.C. have no moral credibility in opposing President Barack Obama’s Marxist-style universal health care proposals. Under George W. Bush, the Republican Party expanded socialism in America like no administration in recent history. Now they are going to oppose the Democrat version of socialism? What a joke!
The only difference between the economic policies of the Democrats and Republicans in Washington, D.C., is Democrats want to tax-and-spend America into socialism for the benefit of the Welfare State, while Republicans want to borrow-and-spend America into socialism for the benefit of the Warfare State. Neither party wants to confine Washington, D.C., to the prescribed limits of the U.S. Constitution. And neither party in Washington, D.C., is willing to recognize the constitutional authority and autonomy of the States United.
Given the fact that both parties are hell-bent on destroying constitutional government, dismantling State sovereignty, and trampling individual liberties, it seems painfully obvious to me that a war for State independence is inevitable. Just exactly what that means is unknown at this point, but all of the elements and ingredients that existed in 1775 exist today. In fact, in view of the battle currently taking place between Nashville/Helena and Washington, D.C., the war has–for all intents and purposes–already begun. And unlike many of my Christian brethren who want to “shut [their] eyes against a painful truth,” I say with Patrick Henry, “Let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come!”
Summing up 182-192:
Hetrerosexual anal sex. Check. Vice in a chair with enough rope. Check. Exciting new holes. Check. Adult women in schoolgirl outfits. Check. Cheerleaders on crack. Check.
Not a face of Christ’s love, but a face full of hatred. Attack on our children by the pro-initiation of coercion movement: Check please.
Further exchange with Davidson on lpanarchists:
Re: Logic and Davidson – contradiction in terms?
— In [email protected], “Jim” wrote:
J> You are a thug, a violent criminal, and a convicted felon. These things speak to your character. Even Diogenes looked for an honest man.
>
> Because Americans rely on thugs, liars, and thieves, in place of decent men and women, in politics, they fail to find freedom there. You might want to ask yourself what business you have being involved in the freedom movement, given your past indelicacies.
p] Actually, it’s the best reason I know of to be involved in the freedom movement. I can’t change the past, but I can try to change the future.
P > > my long ago involvement in criminal violence
>
> > I acknowledge it
>
> > I deeply regret many of my actions.
J > But have you made any meaningful act of contrition?
p] Absolutely. In fact, that is what my political involvement is all about.
p > > Anyway, what is your obsession with the LP and what is your
> > new obsession with me?
J > Obsession? I get invited to LP discussions all the time. Every once in a while, I respond by posting my ideas. This sort of thing isn’t an obsession. It is a courtesy.
p] There is nothing courteous about it, and you getting involved in LP
discussions all the time is indeed an obsession, given that you have stated that there is no future in electoral politics for freedom.
p> > A few weeks ago you start attacking me out of the blue
> > for no apparent reason.
J > You have but to look at your character and at your actions to find the many reasons.
p] There have been no such reasons. My distant past is not exactly news. You have known about it for a long time. Nevertheless, you treated me as a friend and ally, as I did you. Then, suddenly, for no reason that I can see, you started attacking me out of the blue and escalating your aggressive rhetoric to the point that you are now making threats.
Nothing I have done in the interim has caused any of these actions on your part; if there is, what was it?
J > > “Paulie. You are an evil malicious wart on the liberty
> > movement’s nose. You are a thug. Fuck yourself. If I see
> > you, I’ll hurt you, any way I please.”
J2 > Evidently, I felt hurt by your words. Perhaps I’ll hurt you with words. Or actions.
p] Many people feel hurt by your words. Are you sure that is the standard you want to set to excuse physical violence (”actions”)?
J > You are outside the protection of the zero aggression principle because of your past violent actions.
p] Ah, I see.
I used to do bad things and so that means I should never try to do good things in the present or future. Gotcha.
J > I can retaliate against you at any time for any of those past violent actions.
p] How do you know there were any victims? Maybe the force was retaliatory? Maybe I was acting under duress? Maybe I made it up?
You seem to think you know a lot when it is obvious that you know nothing whatsoever.
P > > Keep in mind that you initiated verbal aggression,
J > There is no such thing.
p] Of course there is.
P > > have escalated it, and now are apparently threatening to
> > initiate physical violence.
J > Apparent to whom? I don’t find it at all apparent. I’m certainly
> capable of using defensive and retaliatory force.
P] Apparent to anyone who can read. You are clearly and repeatedly threatening violence against me.
P > > I’m the thug yet you are the one threatening me for…what?
J > Indeed you are, good that you know yourself.
p] No, I’m far from being a thug. If I was the thug you want people to think I am, I would have already had you killed just for your threats alone. Instead, I am much more likely to become your victim, and probably won’t even defend myself. I’m a lot different now than I was then.
J > Threatening you?
p] Yes, you are.
J> I’m stating my opinions.
p] The “opinion” that you will hurt me with your actions, yes.
J> I’m expressing my desires.
p] The desire to inflict violence against me. Yes.
J] If you feel threatened, defend yourself.
p] Maybe I will, but probably not.
J] How many of those people you beat up and put into hospitals with your violence felt threatened by you? Did you send flowers?
p] Dunno. I don’t remember that time of my life very well. I was using a lot of drugs all the time. I may have false memories. What does that have to do with anything in the present?
P > > Maybe I struck a nerve with the agent provocateur guess?
J > No, you are evidently an agent provocateur who cannot stand to have anyone beat you to the punch. You want to be the first to mention the idea that violence has worked in the past in political action. Maybe your masters told you that the recipe I posted for Molotov cocktails was too effective.
p] I have no masters, and I’m not the one exhorting other people to commit violence — the job of the archetypal agent provocateur. I see Davidson exhorting people to commit violence against police, politicians, etc. Is he doing so himself?
P > > Finally, Jim: what is it you want?
J > I want you to fuck off and die. I’d like to be left alone.
P] I’d be happy to leave you alone, preferably in solitary confinement in a secure mental health facility for the criminally insane, or somewhere else where you can’t hurt peaceful people like me. And yes, I am now a peaceful person.
Please do fuck off, since you have no interest in making the Libertarian Party work and do not believe it can be a force for good, and thus are in the wrong place here. In fact, you are only here to be disruptive, and I believe that is intentionally.
As for death, we’ll all die eventually, although it seems you are planning to take action to hasten my death, at least if your words are to be believed.
P > > Which aspects of my free expression do I have to curtail for
> > you to withdraw your threat of initiating violence against me?
J > You have to make a meaningful act of contrition to every single individual you have ever beaten physically. I suggest you crawl over broken glass on your knees to each of their homes to beg forgiveness.
p] How do you know any such individuals exist? If they do exist, how do you know that they were innocent? Maybe I was acting in self defense? Maybe I was acting under duress and threat of my own life?
Meanwhile, you are threatening to beat me up or perhaps kill me. If you refrain from doing so, you won’t have to feel morally compelled to not be a hypocrite, as following your own advice will then mean you will have to crawl on your knees over broken glass to beg my forgiveness.
J > I have made not threat to initiate violence. I have said that I’ll hurt you any way I please. That might include physical hurt, or emotional hurt, or humiliation. Maybe I’ll make you look stupid by throwing a drink in your face. You never know. Hurt is a broad category.
p] Any of those are a form of violence, specifically assault. You have
threatened it repeatedly, publicly and specifically, and have done so again just now.
Whereas Jim Davidson admits to being a thug who fantasizes about (and possibly does) engage in violence due to sadistic sociopathy.
But mostly, he is an apparent agent provocateur who exhorts others to engage in violence, while not having shown any evidence of personally following through on his repeated calls for violence against police and numerous others.
The referenced material on lpanarchists:
Me > Wouldn’t logic dictate that a freedom activist who believes
> that “there is no future in electoral politics for freedom”
> could find many more productive uses for his time?
Davidson: Paulie the drug gang enforcer who used to enjoy beating people up for his drug gang, as he has frequently bragged.
Clearly I don’t need to take logic lessons from a gang banger. How many murders were you involved in or witnessed, Paulie?
p] Argumentum ad hominem. The question is no less valid regardless who posted
it.
The events you speak of took place over 20 years ago, when I was between the ages of 11 and 15. I’m now 37. In no ways is my long ago involvement in criminal
violence something I brag about, although I acknowledge it as part of my evolution through life. I deeply regret many of my actions.
I’m not a gang banger and I didn’t say anything about any murders – where did you dream that up?
Anyway, what is your obsession with the LP and what is your new obsession with me?
A few weeks ago you start attacking me out of the blue for no apparent reason. Now you have threatened to ….
“Paulie. You are an evil malicious wart on the liberty movement’s nose. You are
a thug. Fuck yourself. If I see you, I’ll hurt you, any way I please.”
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2009/07/tom-knapp-on-controversy-over-cambridge-arrest-of-dr-henry-louis-gates-its-not-about-race/#comment-83786
Keep in mind that you initiated verbal aggression, have escalated it, and now
are apparently threatening to initiate physical violence.
I’m the thug, yet you are the one threatening me for?what? Posting videos on IPR? ?. Add psychological projection to Jim’s laundry list of issues.
Maybe I struck a nerve with the agent provocateur guess?
Finally, Jim: what is it you want? Which aspects of my free expression do I have to curtail for you to withdraw your threat of initiating violence against me?
@192 On the lpanarchists list at groups.yahoo Paulie admits to having been a thug who engaged in violence for pay.
@6 It is odd that I cannot find any indication that Chuck Baldwin claims to be a libertarian. Perhaps you think he ought to be one, even though he doesn’t wish to be one?
Not a face of Christ’s love, but a face full of hatred.
Good point.
Don, I don’t say this too often, and you should take it to heart. You REALLY should let your medication kick in before you start typing!
Grundmann, Lake or both?
For a vice chairman, you have a rather low opinion of vice.
I think vice and chairs are a great combination.
I don?t think any post about Chuck Baldwin on IPR has ever gotten this much attention, even when he was actually running for something.
Still a little ways to go…
https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/10/independent-political-report-will-liveblog-the-free-and-equal-debate-tonight-between-ralph-nader-and-chuck-baldwin/
Don, I have a query for you
No one should feel ajudicated to be niggardly with their queries at IPR.
If your spine didn’t get in the way, wouldn’t you spend your time doing something useful, like perform oral sex on yourself, rather than waste it posting to a political blog?
Absolutely.
Thongs for elementary girls??
Repulsive!
I prefer adult women in schoolgirl outfits. We need to infantilize adults more, not make children grow up sooner.
OTOH, even Junior High cheerleaders do some rather seductive dance routines. Even in “Christian” schools.
Much more than that, once they become addicted to crack.
only myself, Floyd, and Cody have in this thread expressed any opposition to this attack upon our children by the homosexual movement.
How about the attack on our children by the pro-initiation of coercion movement?
the longer a straight couple is together or gay for that matter the more you explore places to put it . LOL funny but true
#
practice anal sex, while anal sex *is* practiced by a majority of heterosexuals.
#
151 patriot1 // Aug 5, 2009 at 7:42 pm
give someone enough rope..
Excellent combination.
Amen, Libertarian Girl!
DG__The promoters of homosexuality will always, 100% of the time, claim that any opposition to homosexuality is hate.
me_the promoters of religious intolerance will always , 100% of the time , claim that opposition to their “truth” is evil.
Don Lake – You want to protect veterans but your comments for defense of children – ” Nada, nothing. Not one word!” I realize that I have blanket expectations of people such as expecting that all veterans would automatically step up to the plate and defend children from attack. You are obviously a exception and hopefully the only one.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
” Not a face of Christ’s love, but a face full of hatred.”
Response – Jill : There is really no polite way to acknowledge that you are, at best, a fool. The promoters of homosexuality will always, 100% of the time, claim that any opposition to homosexuality is hate. The mindless drones who automatically agree with such a statement have no concept of ” Christs love ” which they claim to be total acceptance of everyone, especially themselves, as they are; i.e.; their sinning self with no intention for repentance or change. In their view God accepts and endorses them just as they are and no matter how rotten that may be. This is the Devils definition of God’s love. The love of our Creator is chastizement; to, as our loving Father, change us from what we want to be – evil – to what He wants us to be. Those who are outright evil will use the ” hater ” charge against those who oppose perverts to advance the pervert agenda of attacking the children of our nation with their anti-morality poison. Hence you are at best a fool if not outright evil. But the Creator will sort it all out as He always does. Your ” chickens will come home to roost ” in your own existence. Unfortunately your child, as countless others through the genrations have experienced, will pay the price for your support of evil. This is not because of me but rather has already been foretold in the Bible as I noted before – I will bless them that bless me and curse them that curse me unto the 3rd and 4th generations of them that hate me. There is nothing that I can do about it. Only you can change and stop it. This is the unfortunate result of parents who endorse evil leading to tragedy afflicting their children. My suggestion would be for your repentance if simply to save your child; a occurance which I doubt will occur due to your love of your ego above all else. Don’t say that you weren’t warned. I will hate to know that any tragedy will occur but I have no power to stop it except to warn you. It will be your choice to allow it to happen or not. As I have stated religious beliefs express into political action as you so clearly show. They unfortunately also express into personal tragedy which is brought upon the believer entirely by themselves.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
Don, I don’t say this too often, and you should take it to heart. You REALLY should let your medication kick in before you start typing! That last statement of your’s is what people have in mind when they say “he made a rambling, incoherent statement”
PEACE
I kind of backed off from responding directly to Mr. Grundmann because I got really creeped out. I did a Google search on him to see if he’s for real (since he’s so over-the-top I thought maybe it was a joke). There’s a picture from the San Francisco paper, obviously right after gay marriage was legal this state. There are jubilant couples hugging, so happy to finally be allowed what most of the population takes for granted. And there’s one lone protester holding a sign which said something about perversion. Don’ sface was the anomoly in this photo. Not a face of Christ’s love, but a face full of hatred.
And to think he proudly gave his name to the reporter so that this photo identifying him will go down in history. What a legacy, and what a pathetic waste.
Lib Grrl: Correspondence Camp ?????
The sad thing about Grundmann’s obsession with anti homosexual, anti abortion, and other slightly right of Attila the Hun stands is his abandonment of common sense and veterans issues.
In California I was involved in the eventual Pulitzer Prize [richly undeserved by an establishment rag which has since been sold] and FBI investigation of a federal felon whom is also known as the worst congress member in house history. Not one word from Grundmann!
All the time he has spent on bashing those roving bands of homos out to convert Innocent straights to the smarmy side of the street? The Democratic Lt. Governor of California, whom has exactly no official connection to the horrible state veterans programs has been busy — trying to round up votes for Governor in 2010.
Scary Kerry’s 2004 apologist, Wade Sanders was selected by John Garamendi at an exorbitant salary as the do nothing, no office, no reason to be employed ‘Veterans Advocate’ of the Lt. Governor’s office. [Purely a make work position never previously concocted!]
Well, maybe he [Sanders] was there to be an official check against the horrible mismanagement of CALVETS and CDVA. Oops, he always took THEIR side of the complaint.
Where is Wade Sanders now? Joining ‘Puke’ Cunningham in federal stir! Cunningham the bribe master. Sanders the Kiddie Pornography King.
Grundmann’s out rage at Sanders? Nada, nothing. Not one word! [Too busy aiming at at those packs of predatory homosexuals ????]
In FLorida, a man with tons of kiddie porn on his computer [a la Sanders] claimed the family cat walked across the key board.
And Sanders ??????????
DG__To challenge such evil would, since you are in harmony with it, be to challenge its home inside of you and would hence be a fantastic pain to your ego from which you would then, as you do now, retreat into your excuse mantra in order to avoid the destruction of your ego by the light of conscience/truth.
me __ somebody took psych 101 at community college lol
” you did not convince me either , your so-called ‘proof’ is weak , weak , weak .
your a homophobe , nothing more”
Response – There is nothing on the face of the earth that will ” convince ” either you or Jill of any threat to children from the homosexual community with the only possibility for your objection being that a child was molested right in front of you. Even then you would be searching for excuses to justify it since to actually confront the evil would be to confront something which you yourself have been busy promoting. To challenge such evil would, since you are in harmony with it, be to challenge its home inside of you and would hence be a fantastic pain to your ego from which you would then, as you do now, retreat into your excuse mantra in order to avoid the destruction of your ego by the light of conscience/truth. You could and would never possibly admit that you were wrong for promoting perversion. Your ego could not handle it. Your ” homophobe ” screed is direct proof of my commentary regarding Social Engineering as is Jills defense of pervert children rather than normal children from being attacked by perversion. Her defense of children is to lie to them regarding their normality while minimally implicitly greasing the skids for the attack of the homosexual movement upon the normal children of our nation. In past times the very possibility, much less the actuality, of any attack against children occuring such as I have described would bring a mob of people to confront the school administrators or any other perpetrators who even dreamed of succeeding with such a plan. The perpetrators would be ” run out of town on a rail ” for daring to attack children at all much less in the sickened way of homosexual perversion. Fast forward to now when foaming-at-the-mouth supporters of perversion such as yourselves attack defenders of children such as myself and jump to the defense of the pervert community no matter how outrageous/sick their conduct and actions are. Of course your actions, as with this entire thread, are simply expressions of religious belief expressed into political action. Anti-Christians lead the anti-morality parade and anything which destroys morality is judged and endorsed by them to be good. Morality is ” oppressive ” ( even if it protects those who complain against it ) or even ( a real winner ) ” coercive ” and those who stand for it are automatically branded as ” haters,” the term which is used whenever ANY opposition of the slightest degree is expressed against the sin and emotional perversion and pathology of homosexuality. Of course the hatred of Christianity by the caster of the hatred term is considered ” enlightened.”
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
Don, I have a query for you (yes, that was a clever play on words):: You’re convinced that children choose to be gay. Why then heck would they do that? It undoubtedly breaks their parents’ hearts, significantly decreases the likelihood that they can form their own family unit as an adult, and targets them for ridicule, hatred (from the likes of you) and even, horrifyingly, possible violence from Neandethals. Why would someone choose that?
By the way, that was a rhetorical question. I don’t really want to know your answer. I’d like you to think about.it.
Here’s another thing to ponder, while you sit alone in your home wondering why you’re single and have no children: when science devises a way to predict in utero which babies are likely to be homosexual, would that be grounds for abortion? You know, one less “pervert” in the world. .
I’m going to repeat something I said earlier, Don, since you must have missed it the first time: this whole thread is about protecting children from the harm that comes from narrow-minded, hypocritical, hate-filled (and undoubtedly lonely) people like YOU! You are the enemy!
@155
Melty,
I was tempted to revise my “spread” statement out of fear of childish responses, but then I thought: where’s the fun in that? 🙂
@158
Don,
I seriously doubt that those posting here are spineless. If your spine didn’t get in the way, wouldn’t you spend your time doing something useful, like perform oral sex on yourself, rather than waste it posting to a political blog?
but the gay community ….eh , I dont think so!
Those are my thoughts!
I had a LOT of lesbian friends that helped me with my kids. Culturally (music, dress, etc) they are pretty conservative! I appreciated that.
And now I have a couple of pretty well adjusted kids!
PEACE
absolutely popular culture is responsible for the early sexualization of our youth .music , videos , tv , cable , video games , advertising … all are culprits
but the gay community ….eh , I dont think so!
That’s EXACTLY what I’m talking about!
Thongs for elementary girls??
Repulsive!
But that isn’t a problem with government schools. It is a problem with so-called culture.
OTOH, even Junior High cheerleaders do some rather seductive dance routines. Even in “Christian” schools.
PEACE
have you seen the hoochie mama clothes they make for even toddler aged girls?
yuck yuck!
I object to sexualizing children at the youngest ages …
If you had stopped there, I might have agreed somewhat. Children ARE becoming sexualized at an earlier age than ever before.
But I would say that it is a problem with contemporary “culture” than with government schools, per se.
It would be a lot easier to blame music video’s and rampant consumerism and even Disney characters such as Hannah Montana for some of the more disgusting displays.
But that’s culture.
I was pretty involved with my kid’s schooling, active with the PTA, and watched what the teachers were teaching. IMHO, most of the teachers were fairly conservative in what they taught.
I didn’t have cable tv back in those days, but obviously many of the other kids came from homes where music videos were a featured part of their entertainment. It was NOT uncommon to see a first or second grader break into a rather suggestive dance routine!
PEACE
you did not convince me either , your so-called ‘proof’ is weak , weak , weak .
your a homophobe , nothing more
That’s because we don’t believe there’s an organized movement toward our children about homosexuality. You did not convince me.
” is it homosexuality or anal sex you have a problem with? ”
Response – Nate : Homosexuals may do whatever they want in the privacy of their home and I have absolutely no objection. I DO object to a cultural and social movement that works to teach children that all things homosexual are equal to, if not better than, all things heterosexual. The agenda includes mandatory teaching of children in public schools starting in KINDERGARTEN. I object to sexualizing children at the youngest ages in order to recruit them into the homosexual movement. And I additionally object to the pathetic weakening of the American people which manifests in virtually countless spineless persons, as can be noted simply on this thread, who not only have have no objection to this open attack against children, especially of our future generations, but who actually endorse it for their own sick and pathetic reasons. It is a astounding expression of how totally successful Social Engineering has been in molding the minds and souls of the American people as easily as silly putty into accepting the emotional pathology of homosexuality; this being just one example of why our nation is going down the tubes due to the pathetic weakness of our citizens in resisting the tyranny and slavery which is attacking them and moving toward Its ultimate victory. A victory which will be attained only by the collapse of morality in those who are attacked. A collapse well documented here by the opposition shown to my stand in protection of children. As I noted in a earlier comment only myself, Floyd, and Cody have in this thread expressed any opposition to this attack upon our children by the homosexual movement. Not a peep from anyone else.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
ROFL ! oh what an entertaining thread this one has been .
LG, I thought is was the longer an incumbent is in office they will find more places to put it, and always at our expense. 😀
Nate,
might this mean da krauts pack a lot of ass?
da yanks “tend to have a rather large spread” eh?
the longer a straight couple is together or gay for that matter the more you explore places to put it . LOL funny but true
Peter,
I was basing that on a recent survey done in Germany. It seems the numbers in the US could be lower, although they tend to have a rather large spread depending on the survey, somewhere between 25% and 70%. So perhaps I was wrong to claim a majority, perhaps not. It is most certainly not an act performed only by homosexual males, however. And neither do all homosexual males perform it. And yet you’ll always hear stuff like:
“homosexual ” pride parades ” ( ” proud ” of their sodomy, ” proud ” of inserting their penis into a anus )”
There are plenty of heterosexual men “proud” of themselves for that.
But yes, until recently I didn’t think anal sex was *that* common either. I think most people just keep their sex life more or less private and people make assumptions.
give someone enough rope..and they will hang themself……
peace
Don,
is it homosexuality or anal sex you have a problem with? Often times people can’t seem to keep these two separate, although there are quite a lot of homosexual men (and even more homosexual women) who do not practice anal sex, while anal sex *is* practiced by a majority of heterosexuals.
Posted by Citizens For A Better Veterans Home and Donald Raymond Lake: ”
A man who sprayed bullets into a fitness class filled with women, killing three and then himself, apparently kept a Web page in which he wrote about years of rejection by women and an earlier plan for violence at the gym in which he said he “chickened out.”
Neighbors described 48-year-old George Sodini, who worked in a law firm’s finance department, as anti-social, and the Web page in his name showcased a resume setting forth his credentials as an unhappy loner. It listed his date of death — Aug. 4, 2009 — and his status of “Never married.”
He complained of not having a girlfriend since 1984, not having a date since May 2008 and not having sex for 19 years.
“Women just don’t like me. There are 30 million desirable women in the US (my estimate) and I cannot find one,” he wrote. The page ended with the words “Death Lives!
On Tuesday night, the gunman walked into his gym wearing workout gear and a headband, entered a “Latin impact” dance aerobics class and placed a duffel bag on the ground. He rooted around in the bag for a moment, turned off the lights, took out at least two guns and started shooting.
Three women were killed and nine women were wounded. Police say he may have fired as many as 52 shots before turning the gun on himself and committing suicide.
“He walked right into the room where the shootings occurred as if he knew exactly where he was going,” Allegheny County police Superintendent Charles Moffatt said. “I think he went in with the idea of doing what he did.”
Authorities on Wednesday identified the gunman as Sodini, of nearby Scott Township. The three women who died were Heidi Overmier, 46, of Carnegie; Elizabeth Gannon, 49, of Pittsburgh; and Jody Billingsley, 38, of Mount Lebanon.
The 4,610-word Web page, on a domain registered in Sodini’s name, appeared to be a nine-month chronology of his plans for the shooting, his decision to delay it and the process that led to the eventual carnage at his health club Tuesday. Authorities did not immediately confirm that the site belonged to Sodini, but the elaborate nature of the comments suggested authenticity.”
I agree with you, Patriot 1. Also, he’s working so hard to use big words and fancy sentences so that we’ll think he’s smart, that a lot of what he writes simply doesn’t make sense. In fact, his ramblings/disjointed writings indicate mental illness. I’m so glad he hasn’t had any children to pass his pathology on to.
Frankly, methink he protesteth WAY too much.
If your child becomes homosexual it is NOT because they were ” born that way ” but, as with ALL other families experiencing the same thing, as a result of the child reacting with resentment ( hatred ) to the interaction between you and your husband and the resulting interaction of this with the child. To truly ” love ” the child you would aid him/her in recognizing how YOUR OWN ACTIONS ( such as resentments of you and your husband, and your marital superiority wars, as just 2 of countless possible examples ) have harmed them and you would bring to their attention that it was their own reaction to you which had hurt them so deeply; enough so to shatter their soul and totally warp them from who they originally were and were developing to be. A true confession of repentance from a truly loving parent to their child that they were remorseful for hurting them so badly. A true confession leading to a change of heart and, especially, action by the confessor to repent of their sin and to ” go and sin no more.” A true confession recognizing that the attacker ( the parent ) had hurt, close to mortally, the very soul of their own child. The only real way to save their child and, especially, their childs soul from damnation. Of course this would require that you admit your own error; i.e.; to admit that you are/were wrong – a fantastic pain to any pathological ego maniac. So instead of actually telling the truth ( as in – I am/was wrong ) our oh-so-modern-and-enlightened defenders of homosexuality will of course blame God first ( he made my child homosexual ) instead of actually admitting how they destroyed their own child through their own resentments, bitterness, stupidity, etc. They will endorse their own childs perversion via fellow collections of sick excuse makers such as PFLAG rather than admit their own soul error and contamination which has poisoned their own child as predicted by the Biblical verse – I will bless them that bless me and curse them that curse me even unto the 3rd and 4th generations of them that hate me. Sickened parents will pass their own soul sin through the generations to follow rather than admitting their own sin and contamination/infection. A classic real life example, multiplied by literally hundreds of thousands, of my earlier comment regarding the basic law of existence that ALL supporters of homosexuality and all other sinners exist by – Better a king in hell than a servant in heaven. They will ” protect ” their child from so-called ” hatred ” ( which is actually known as ” reality ” ) when they are actually ” protecting ” their child from the realization that their own ” loving ” parent has sacrificed them on the altar of expediency to avoid being confronted with their own poison and ego sickness which has been, and always will be, more important for them to protect from harm than their child or anything or anyone else. The multiplication of this mass psychotic denial produces homosexual ” pride parades ” ( ” proud ” of their sodomy, ” proud ” of inserting their penis into a anus ), the planned for pervert marriage legalization, and the then following legalization of child molestation. Political results springing from a religious base. All without a peep of protest along the way of those who claim to follow ” Jesus teachings ” which they have deliberately perverted to accomodate their anti-Christian religion which masquarades as Christianity in yet another ego-soothing fantasy within the sinners head that they are something ( Christian in this case ) which they are in reality no even close to and are actually totally opposed to. P.S. – There is no such thing as ” GAY.” The term stands for Going After Youth and as previously stated is simply a marketing lipstick-on-a-pig term.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
hmm, I think Don Grundmann was an abused child. I am not making a joke here. Did you know, that children that were abused become huge advocates as adults for others that might…or have been abused. It actually becomes their life’s work. Unless of course they have had therapy and understand the anger and feelings of being powerless were not any fault of their own. Don was made to feel victimized, and swore to never ever be that vulnerable again. We should feel empathy for Don..as he has learned that negative attention is still attention. That poor kid.
peace
Commentary from the Popcorn Gallery:
paulie @136 (and everyone else, too!):
Sin is theologically defined as “Deliberate disobedience to the known Will of God”.
(munch, munch)
Now, if God is this Great Unknown Mystery Beyond All Human Comprehension (thus requiring things like Bibles and Team Tent Revival to fail at explaining It), then it follows that we are also unable to comprehend God’s Will as well since It is a part of HIM. If we cannot know God’s Will, then how can we know we’re deliberately disobeying Iit? It only follows that a “sin” cannot be knowingly done as well, since the terms to do a sin cannot be met. So we also cannot know if we are sinning or if we are even sinners at all.
(munch, munch)
Since we cannot know one way or another, it is equally as valid to claim not that I am a sinner, but that I am not a sinner. I so do claim right now, as can anyone else.
So what is a sin, really then? A violation of “divine law”? Who sets that up? Man, right? Doesn’t sound very divine to me.
(pass the butter and salt)
“But it’s man being inspired by God, so it’s divine!” people will reply. Yet man is unable to comprehend God’s Will, so there is no proof that that so-called inspiration is from God, Satan (if you believe in that nonsense), the Great Spirit, or the last joint one smoked. Yet this argument is needed (more on why below) and the last resort to hold it up is either, “It’s a matter of faith” or “God made it so, so it must be true!”–both of which indicate nothing of logical or empirical support whatsoever.
(munch, munch)
So this means “sin” must be some sort of artificial construct that was concocted to dictate behaviors, to control people. Now we’re getting closer to the truth of the matter–“Do this because we tell you to, or else you will be condemned! You don’t want to be shunned from our holier-than-thou cliq, do you?” In the socio-politico-economic world, replace “sin” with “crime” and you get a similar idea. “Sin” is about control in the theological sense in the same way “crime” is about control in the legal sense.
It’s about controlling people, dictating to them, doing aggression on them.
This is where the schism between the LP and the CP lies, folks. The CP folks are perfectly happy to use the force of the state to impose their theological controls on people, to merge “sin” and “crime” together, and they see no aggression in that, because they are merely doing God’s Will, that thing that we’ve already shown that non of us can possibly understand. The LP folks deny that use of force by the state, and they object to others claiming it as well. In areas of clear aggression against another there is no debate–even CPers and LPers agree that assault, robbery, fraud, and murder are wrong on most all counts. But when it gets into sex, look out!–and here we are.
Hence the core of the argument here. The sex issues of incest, pedophilia, homosexuality, etc, are simply covering on top of that core issue.
(munch, munch)
So ask yourselves this, folks–what makes more sense–embracing your own Free Will and being responsible for your own choices through Liberty and Freedom, or having them restricted and dictated to you by the state in the form of “crime” or “sin” or whatever other label one wants to put on it?
Me, being a non-sinner, I’ll take the former and take my chances, and I’ll be able to stand proud and confident at whatever Judgment I may have beyond this world and say, “I did my best with what I had, and if that’s not good enough for you, then so be it, but I have no regrets.”
You aren’t getting it: we are protecting children from your hatred. Why is that so hard to understand?
I only make mistakes in punctuation when I’m angry, by the way. I’m actually very slow to anger, but your idiocy is finally getting to me.
YOU are the one with the ego problem. Your anwers are generic; you don’t really respond to the specifics of what we say. This whole thread is in response to gay children, whom I will protect with my own life.
THAT has nothing to do with ego; it has to do with loving and caring for all children, all the while thanking God for the precious child He has given me.
I even care for poor, lonely, misguided Don Grundmann, which is the only reason I’m still responding. That’s because I follow Jesus’ teachings.
Quite the opposite: I oppose those who would attack children by passing on a world where initiation of coercion is acceptable when done under the color of authority.
Do you?
MY ENTIRE RESPONSE THIS ENTIRE THREAD ARE IN DEFENSE OF CHILDREN: GAY CHILDREN!!!
I notice that only myself, Cody Quirk, and Floyd Whitley have any opposition to those who are, and who intend to, attack children. Not a peep of defense for children from anyone else. For this we are continuously attacked and defamed. How telling. This simply proves all of the points which I have expressed; especially regarding the importance to those who carry ” the infection ” ( the soul harmony vibration with perversion and pathology ) to protect their ego at all costs, children and anyone/thing else which could tarnish their ego glow be damned.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
I guess the reason Don is uptight is because, according to his website, he’s single and has no children (how DARE you talk about raising children). Since he’s such a “Christian”, he’s undoubtedly abstaining from sex. That would make anyone crazy.
I’ll try to be nicer to you.
How’s that Senate race coming?
Don, did you ever eat a cheeseburger? (two meat products in one meal)
Or pick up a pencil or turn off a light switch on the Sabbath? (prohibition of work, keeping the Sabbath holy)
Or are you a Cafeterian, picking and choosing which of G-d’s laws to obey?
PEACE
If you claim to be without sin, then perhaps you may judge, but judge not unless you are prepared to be judged.
None of us are without sin, for example excessive pride (hubris) and wrath (anger) are sins too, are they not? When you point a finger, how many point back? Whose place is it to judge?
” Oh, Don, you might want to change your webpage because it’s inaccurate. The part where you say: “All men anre created equal”, you should probably add “unless you’re homosexual”..”
Response – The Creator did, and does, create us all as equal. We choose to sin or not. It is we ( including you ) that make ourselves unequal ( less than ) by our own choices and actions.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
To the extent that independent candidates and alternative political parties discuss religion, it is an appropriate topic here.
Only with you as my wide receiver, deb
Seebeck , bring your popcorn , Team Liberty WILL PREVAIL 🙂 lol
Again, I stand for morality (opposition to initiation of coercion); you are for initiating coercion under some circumstances, thus against morality.
Why is this complicated for you? An adult brother and sister having sex is different from an adult parent molesting his young child. And the latter would still be just as much a crime if he is an unrelated guardian of the child, or for that matter a neighbor or a stranger.
Again: more religion on a secular site!
I couldn’t (and apparently didn’t) have said it better myself, Mike!
*Munching popcorn from the sidelines*
Weelll, ain’t this a fine comedy we got here!
On one side we got Don “Solomonn” Grundmann with his tent-revival schtick that’s only missing the line “Gimme a HALLELUJAH!” and his trusty sidekick Floyd “Everyone’s a Hypocrite Except Me, and I can’t spell the term most fundamental to my religious beliefs” Whitley, whose claim to fame appears to be that Don’s tent fell on top of him, giving him a concussion and a severe case of mahcranius addledius maximus.
On the other side we’ve got paulie, and LG, flying the flag of secular moralism, which is a concept totally lost on the tent folks, joined by newlyweds and happily married and hardly gay Allan and Jill Pyeatt, with featured guest Steve Linnabary.
Cameos by Don Lake and Cody Quirk, among others.
This late in the game–at least to this MO Synod Lutheran pastor’s grandson who happens to be a recovering Catholic as well, making him tri-religious and most assuredly now spiritual and beyond practicing unsafe sects–it appears that Team Tent Revival needs some serious reviving as they have crumbled under their own failed bombast that’s been adeptly deflected and boomeranged right back at them by Team Liberty.
Will Team Liberty triumph in the end as is the betting odds (1776:1), or will Team Tent Revival find their missing central stake, which they’d LOVE to have, and make a startling comeback into relevancy and be happy and gay? Or will they continue to HATE to lose?
Stay tuned! More after these commercial messages. This episode of Religious Deathmatch 2000 is brought to you by the Pet Shop Boys, who remind you to dance in your white underwear around a nun in a dorm, and that:
Everything I’ve ever done
Everything I ever do
Every place I’ve ever been
Everywhere I’m going to
It’s a sin!
What a pathetic waste of intellect.
Oh, Don, you might want to change your webpage because it’s inaccurate. The part where you say: “All men anre created equal”, you should probably add “unless you’re homosexual”..
Dude, you couldn’t be more wrong about me. What a waste of time.
Jill – I am glad that you write because you so perfectly illustrate the pathology which is attacking the nation and which children must be defended from. The ” self-hatred ” which you refer to is known as ” conscience,” something the homosexual movement, and obviously you also, flee from as your greatest enemy – which it is since it is the Creator telling you in your soul that you are wrong and in error; i.e.; a sinner and sinning. Of course the homosexual movement has mass productions around the nation and world, known as ” Pride Parades,” in order to drown out that conscience since they recognize it as their mortal enemy. Of course it is instead their ( and your ) best friend as it is the voiceless voice of your loving Creator telling you to come back to obedience to Him instead of your normal everyday action(s) of telling Him to go to hell. Yet many people will commit suicide rather than confess and admit that they are wrong as the most important thing in their existence ( not life ) is, as with you, to protect your ego. Your ego and its protection is task #1 and NOTHING, such as the protection of children from molestation and attack, will EVER get in the way of the protection of your first love – you and your ego. So when I write of defending children and give concrete examples of current and planned attacks against them you will accuse me of ” spewing hatred.” This is the common-as-sand line that I always hear from perverts and their defenders. They who will never admit their own hatred of Christianity and of God Himself but will instead blame their soul pathology, which came from their own resentment of their parents and not from being ” born that way,” on God as part of their never ending effort to blame everything on everyone else and pretend that they are as pure as the driven snow. No, God did NOT make perverts – they make themselves by their own hatred/resentment – just as you do. Pride Parades are a outward expression of the mass psychosis which expresses through countless manifestations – such as lying that God ” accepts you as you are.” No, He does not. He corrects you ( via conscience ) from what you want to be to what He wants you to be. Your own current assignment by your Master, His enemy, is to defend perversion since the same process which made the perverts is what makes pervert supporters who hence vibrate in harmony with their fellow enemies of God and humanity. I have expressed numerous examples of current attacks against children? Have you had ONE agreement that such actions must be stopped? Of course not as you, being a anti-Christian, are in total harmony with them. Instead you will claim that I am ” evil ” for confronting the evil attacking children. Can you give a example, just one, of ” non-Christian venom ” that I have expressed? Of course you will claim that any opposition to homosexuality is ” hatred.” This is only a example of your own soul sickness and not mine. As Don Lake said in #117 above – ” You guys constantly breath religion into a secular site,” He does not understand that there is no such thing as a non-religious person including you. For you are simply expressing your own anti-God/humanity religion which justifies defending the attackers of children instead of the children. The political expression of this into the real world allows the homosexual movement to advance their agenda knowing that you, and unfortunately countless like you, would rather die, or commit suicide, before you would defend children and then be accused of being ” homophobic ” or, galactically worse, ” Christian.” Your ego could never recover from such shame and so you will gladly toss any and all children ” under the bus ” in order to protect your precious ego. Of course if anyone ever does accuse you of being a Christian please come to me and I will defend you at no charge. I will quickly prove that there is no possible evidence for such a charge and you will be quickly, and permanently, aquitted.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
Don, if you really cared about children you would stop spewing hatred and your decidedly non-Christian venom. Someone who really cares about God’s children, some of whom were born homosexual, would use his energy toward some other goal than driving them toward self-hatred and often suicide. You obviously have some admirers, which means at one point you were possibly a decent human being. Why not use the intellect that you have left to do some good? Listen to what Christ really tells you. He is NOT telling to alienate people by this one issue. You are negating any good you could have ever accomplished. Is it possible Jesus sent you to this site for some correction? That what Jesus has told me.
cruci-fiction
hahahahaha
that will never get old:)
” 1) Laws against incest are for, among other things, protecting children and especially young girls.
See prior post; the problem with that is rape, not incest per se.”
Response – A very reassuring comment for those young ladies unfortunately abused by their fathers and one indicative of our nations moral collapse. Instead of a blanket understanding that sexual relations between father and daughter or mother and son are perverse and therefore threatening to the health of the children the ” evolutionary process ” ( motivated and driven by the religion of anti-Christianity ) has ” evolved ” incest to a ” per se ” possibility of being right or wrong depending on your viewpoint; exactly the same argument and process that will allow child molestation to be normalized and main-streamed by the same people and for the same reasons that have made incest acceptable. When we stand for no morality we abandon the defense which it provides to all of humanity against those who would attack them when, as in Star Trek, the morality ” shields are down.”
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
lol. I don’t think so.
poster “Floyd W. Whitley” me thinks
is really Chuck Baldwin. Don’t be afraid to “muddy” your “political aspirations” by arguing with us “common” folk. as you have stated
come out….and “let it come.”
See prior post; the problem with that is rape, not incest per se.
Also already addressed by prior comment. Can the child legally contract, work, drive, make decisions about alcohol and tobacco, etc? Can she support herself financially? Obviously there is an evolutionary process that happens in young people; when it comes to sex, nature seems to indicate what that age is by the process of puberty, but there can be some reasonable social variation without violating basic libertarian principle.
Ah Quirk and Grundmann, you guys COULD BE 100% correct, but it is still a popularity sport. You guys constantly breath religion into a secular site, which is at least illogical.
And you guys do a great job of uniting the rest of us hopeless, pagan, heathen sinners against your tirades ……….. and you know that I am a former supporter and endorser.
” Out side of that, you are shooing potential allies away —- and even into the enemy camp!”
Response – My greatest action on this thread has been to complain, by giving numerous examples, about the advance of the homosexual movement against the children of both now and especially of the future generations. Yet as can be seen there is tremendous opposition and hostility to the idea of protecting children from such attacks. I am declared as ” evil ” or compared ( completely idiotically ) to fanatical Muslims for standing in defense of children. This shows 1) how parties such as the Libertarians relate to the idea of protecting children and 2) ( especially ) the cultural trends of our time where increasing numbers of citizens are minimally indifferent to protecting children if not outrightly hostile because such actions conflict with and are in opposition to their cultural and religious agendas. So if by my complaints I am ” shooing potential allies away ” then 1) they were never potential allies to begin with, and 2) they were already in the enemy camp to begin with. And they have no intention of ever coming out of it.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
The CP is truly the ONLY party that will protect children and fight for them without any compromise.
Umm, yeah…sort of like the way Muslims “protect” women from all sorts of vices, worldly desires and the leering of men in general.
The Libertarians will sacrifice them on the altar of anti-morality…
No, we TEACH our children at an early age how to protect themselves, to be able to recognize bullshit before they step in it, to be productive adults.
We recognize that while we might not appreciate the vices, worldly desires of many, or the leering of dirty old men, there isn’t a whole lot we can do about it.
Besides, while catching a dirty old man cast an appreciative eye toward your 14 year old daughter might be disgusting, it pales in comparison to what our government is doing to us and our children.
Our priorities are on what we can change.
PEACE
Ah, the scene evolves. Mister Quirk is still the same Mormon promoting loose cannon living in Egypt [in Denial].
Doctor Donald Grundmann, formerly a lauded veterans advocate, now merely a unifying factor for all non reactionary non theorists on this site.
Ah, what Cody did [undid ???] for [so called] Third Party Watch, you seem to take an unchristian delight in ‘dusting up’ the heathen paeans rallying against the Establishment Duopoly.
Silly silly Doctor Grundmann, you use to be great on abused veterans. I can only assume that it was not controversial or attention getting enuf for the little boy whom dwells inside you.
How much ‘good’ are you doing in you theocratic tirades on a political site? Issuing a formal complaint to the world? Giving the ‘little bird’ to the swooping, devouring, uncaring Eagle of the current establishment ?
After the Keystone Kops Komedy of non Dems and non GOP in P2008 I can sure sympathize and empathize. Out side of that, all I see from a lot of the bloggers on this potential wonderful site and rallying point is the karma of supposed good intentions and the results of unintended consequences
I do not diminish the need for ‘filing a complaint’! Ya get arrested [falsely and with out proper provocation] and ya do not file a complaint, then the establishment offense never happened.
Out side of that, you are shooing potential allies away —- and even into the enemy camp!
Cody – Excellent point. The CP is truly the ONLY party that will protect children and fight for them without any compromise. ALL other parties, even the Republicans with their pervert ” Log Cabin Club,” will sell children out in a second in exchange for a vote. The Libertarians will sacrifice them on the altar of anti-morality/anti-Christianity as will the Greens with their own addition of just being anti-humanity in their base philosophy/religion. P.S. – I need your new phone number. Can you call me? Thanks,
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
At least the CP doesn’t have crazies that oppose laws against child pornography and underage sex.
” Incest? Is it concensual? If so, none of the regime business.
Pedophilia: if the child is too young to contract in an informed fashion, it can not be concensual, but at what age the transition takes place can be debatable.”
Response – 1) Laws against incest are for, among other things, protecting children and especially young girls. But the good old libertarian response will withdraw such protection in favor of letting the no morality position not only rule the day philosophically but open the child to attack by their predator. Ah, the glories of pure philosophy ( survival of the fittest ) when screeching against being stopped by ” coercion ” from committing whatever crime ( especially sexual ) that you want, or want others, to be allowed to do. 2) A ” debatable ” age of transition. EXACTLY my point! In the libertarian world why is ANY age too young? Isn’t ANY limitation of age simply a bigoted, religious ( i.e.’ Christian ), anti-freedom, homophobic, anti-diversity, cultural indoctrination that cannot be justified because it is based on that phony ” Christian morality?” Hence the same arguments that are now used in favor of pervert/homosexual marriage will be used to advance child molestation. And the same people who fight for the first will at best not lift a finger to stop the second when not being outright supporters of it.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
The one upside to the sudden invasion of the CP crazies is less LP in-fighting. 🙂
The Bolsheviks were anarchists??? That’s news to just about anyone with a remote knowledge of history. The Bolsheviks were more or less the quintessential statists.
More interesting of note is that they (being the Bolsheviks, being the Red Army) actually fought AGAINST anarchists (they being the followers of Batko, the Black Army) in the Ukraine during the Russian Civil War.
What a shallow understanding of anarchy/ism, libertarianism, and other ideas/philosophies these scary CP folks seem to have (or not).
Tad
“Baldwin is great at invoking the Founding Fathers though. Something the LP needs to do a lot
moreless of.”fixed
I too have rights in the public square. And one of them is to not be “forced” to see perverted sexual acts
Good point. Why should decent people have to put up with floy’s masturbatory verbiage in public fora? The part where he gets a woody while fantasizing about abusing people through the regime korts and kops is quite disgusting and perverse.
The “initiation” of force, as you deem it, occurred by making the disgusting and inflammatory statements that Gates made in the first place, and because he refused to cease.
Duh, floy does not realize that the initiation of force (no scare quotes) was failing to leave the gentleman’s property immediately when asked to do so
Folks say hello to floy
He is repeating the grade once again
Case in point is Gates. The statements he made of Crowley, by “rights” under the law could have, and probably should have, drawn a fist upside his head, if Crowley were not in uniform.
What the hell would he have been doing in Gates’ house then? Nevermind words, Gates would have been well within his rights to order him off the property immediately with a shotgun. And, morally anyway, would have been right to do so in this case, although under the present regimist system under the evil state, that would be “suicide by cop”
property rights as we understand them today,
I said something about how we understand them today? No, the whole point is that they are not understood today; see links provided earlier in thread. Read the essays (unless of course you are floy, who has problems with definitions of simple words, so reading would probably not help ….maybe a coloring book? Try the video no. 102)
I believe that anarchists became totalitarians, yes, when they are vested with power over a governmental apparatus. Absolutely.
Yikes, time for everyone to laugh at floy…….what government apparatus? Anarchism means no more such apparatus.
Floy must have been repeatedly dribbled like a basketball, head down, as a small child, what else would account for such a fundamentally retarded statement — although that is not fair to the mentally challenged?
regime initiation of coercion = organized mass rape, murder, theft
call it what you want to, a hat and a badge changes nothing
Paulie, you’re the one who should write a memoir.
LOL, no. Way too many problems with that
Im in Southern Nevada , we have an affiliate up North but we dont dictate that they go to gun shows.
and my story was back in the day when Chris ran the IAP in Nevada and when Sheriff Mack was the spokesman for the GOA , yrs ago .
Me_ LPNevada used to have sign we flew at gunshows , saying ‘ the LP , the only 100% pro-gun party ‘ . W/o fail , everytime we would get into a debate and argument with Chris Hansen who swore the IAP was also 100% pro-gun . we always won that one .
= Well, Chris is no longer active in the IAP, in fact I don’t think he’s still IAP. And currently we’ve been showing up at all the recent gun shows in northern Nevada, including a recent one at Fuji park in Carson. But we didn’t see you guys there.
cruci-fiction …
LOL , thats gonna make me laugh for a long long time
oh man
Floyd__, it was not I who waived around the claim of “100% gun owner rights”–
Me_ LPNevada used to have sign we flew at gunshows , saying ‘ the LP , the only 100% pro-gun party ‘ . W/o fail , everytime we would get into a debate and argument with Chris Hansen who swore the IAP was also 100% pro-gun . we always won that one .
good ole chris
for fucks sake floyd is isnt the misspelling that made me giggle , as in i think your stupid for spelling something wrong .its the irony of the meaning of the misspelled word , i.e you are SO SURE of your religious superiority and your mis-step was ironic cause it said FICTION , as in fake . Its the particular irony f it all , not the fact you misspelled .i FREQUENTLY misspell
So Floyd, according to you, somebody with a gun has a “right” to barge into somebodies home and demand a state issued ID?
I’ll stipulate that this issue has nothing to do with race. It has ONLY to do with an arrogant cop having fun harrassing a citizen, for kicks. But Gates is immersed in black history, so his retort is understandable. Much as if the cop had barged into the home of the head of the “Womens Studies” program might have been suspected sexism. Or a cop barging into the home of a Jewish scholar might have prompted a charge of anti-semitism.
As disgusting as the charge of racism might be, it is easier and more palatable for Obama and the power mongers to digest than getting to the root of the problem, the epidemic of out of control cops getting their kicks harrassing citizens.
PEACE
I believe that anarchists became totalitarians, yes, when they are vested with power over a governmental apparatus. Absolutely.
But you, ludicrously, believe that there is such a thing as “property rights respecting” anarchists, or that rights, much less property rights as we understand them today, can even exist in anarchy.
Get a clue. “Rights” of any kind do not exist in anarchy.
You again use a lot of disconnected dissembling sophistry and outright nonsensical coining of various “calibrations”…deflections…slights of hand…pretense.
You say, oh, you mean only “regime” government; and oh, you “believe” in law but just not in “monopoly government.”
You claim you “oppose initiation of force” but yet your offensive and disgusting statements here are inflammatory.
You make them; and then attempt to not be responsible for them, to distance yourself from their consequence, and if not that, then at least to cover them over with a mea culpa beer, and an I a-hope-a you don’t publish that incident transcript.
Under the law, which you SAY you believe in, by way of example, there are some such statements when made are considered to be actionable; and they are prohibited, and have long been so, since the violence that they elicit is, has been, and can be considered a legitimate “responsive” action.
Case in point is Gates. The statements he made of Crowley, by “rights” under the law could have, and probably should have, drawn a fist upside his head, if Crowley were not in uniform. The “initiation” of force, as you deem it, occurred by making the disgusting and inflammatory statements that Gates made in the first place, and because he refused to cease. The “responsive” force was to arrest him, in this case for disorderly, but it could have just as easily been the more serious crime of obstructions of justice given the officer was responding to a reported possible burglary.
Seems to me, if you were not a hypocrite, you would oppose “initiating” such incendiary statements here. It also seems to me that if the purpose your homosexual allies was to have “privacy”, they would not deliberately engage in and “initiate” public gross displays of lewd and perverted behavior. Because neither of you do so, you both remain hypocritical. This is true because the both of you “initiate force” even though you here deny that you do.
You and your “property rights respecting anarchists” pogrom will indeed devolve (or metastasize) into totalitarianism. Yes, I do think that, especially since you have heretofore had no moral problem expending public decency (which is not yours to forcefully “initiate” the taking of). And especially too, since you are as disingenuous as you are even over these little words here.
I too have rights in the public square. And one of them is to not be “forced” to see perverted sexual acts therein brought about by the “initiation” of others who believe they have the “right” to force the public’s attentions.
You and your allies take from me and others what is not yours to take. You have no authority nor “right” to do so. But because that violation does not seem to bother you, I see no reason to believe, based on your group’s actions, that you won’t take even more if empowered…to the point of totalitarianism, yes.
I simply think a fool, and only a fool alone, would ever buy into your double speak “system”, or model, or nirvana, or utopia, or whatever it is in your twisted mental state you deem as “the” one…the “property respecting rights anarchist” homosexual enabling abortion slaughtering “thing” or place in which no one judges any others, not being “allowed” to so judge…which leads again of course TO totalitarianism.
But America today does have many fools, you being among the best of them.
Question droogies, what do you rekkon Floy is trying to overcompensate for
…cameltoe, cameltoe, cameltoe, cameltoe…
Like rev chuckie sez
LET IT CUM!
…..amen…..
Grundmann, do try to follow…I have morality (oppose initiation of force), you don’t.
Example: two gay people do their thing. Their business.
Incest? Is it concensual? If so, none of the regime business.
Pedophilia: if the child is too young to contract in an informed fashion, it can not be concensual, but at what age the transition takes place can be debatable. I don’t think 20-something women I had sex with when I was a teen molested me. YMMV.
LOLOL
Reich wing con-servitude “floy” thinks totalitarian bolsheviks were anarchist libertarians?
Would somebody please fist floy….the putz floy is just not being clear headed, there must be some blockage!
” They talk about documented cases of school children being taught fisting, but provide no such documentation. ”
Response – I did provide the documentation. As I said it can be found at massresistance.org. All you have to do is 1) that uncommon thing called ” read,” and 2) the far more difficult ( for you ) action of admitting the truth.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
” There is no comparison with legislating your sexual preferences.”
Response – This is part of the common screed that perverts and their supporters ALWAYS spout – You are intefering with my ” liberty,” You are interfering with my ” happiness,” your religious bigotry is taking away my ” freedom.” So goes the arguments in favor of pervert marriage and these same arguments will be automatically used to support incest and then child molestation by the same defenders of perversion who squeal the above arguments. When you have no morality then you claim that ” legislating sexual preferences ” is ” immoral ” – the exact argument of the child molestors.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
“That was regimes, not property rights respecting anarchists”
Now you deflect, now you modify…”property rights respecting anarchists”
Yeah, right! Yet another new class that you leftist liberals continue to coin as quickly as possible to attempt the straighten out your own contorted twisted so-called logic.
Oh, it was “regimes” of anarchists but what did it. We’be’s “property rights respecting” anarchists.
Can you not see you own idiotic contradictions?
And no, I’m not against self defense at all.
But I would point out that it was Leftists with guns imposing their liberal agendas but what has caused the majority of the suffering in the past century.
And to turn your phrase, then keep Leftist liberal agendas with guns far away from me…as I would hate to have to exterminate the miscreants.
Well put!
” Oh, Don, # 45: I think it’s hilarious that you automatically assume I’m gay. News flash: you don’t have to be gay to have compassion for others. Just so you’ll know.”
Response – 1) I do not presume this. You are simply in harmony with the evil which the homosexual movement expresses. You don’t have to be a open pervert in order to war against humanity. 2) I have compassion for the great tragedies which have produced the homosexual population. They have endured horrific sorrows and tragedies which have shattered them from their original state to the emotional pathology of homosexuality. Unfortunately they, like vampires, choose to inflict the same evil on the rest of humanity. And you are there to aid their attack.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
Squeaky,
McKinley was indeed assassinated by an anarchist in Buffalo.
An anarchist’s bullets did indeed spark the First World War.
And anarchists were the core of the Bolshevik movement…which then consolidated under the Soviet banner when power was to be had.
It is YOU who need a history book.
Every human society, all of them, has boundaries on individual behavior and actions within that society. That is not Stalinist, nor capitalist…it is fact.
It is you who speaks your anarchistic madness which make zero sense, Squeaky.
And floy is also a satanist. Stalinist satanist, SS, like hitler, this floy. Maron!
That’s because “floy” IS a stalinist.
Oh, so this jackass is against self defense as well? Figures.
System my ass. How’s about I build you a new porch you did not ask for with a big hole in the floor, charge you ten times what a good porch is worth, and claim you owe me?
Reading is fundamental. Of course I judge, I just don’t enforce judgments or delegate others to do so unless it is responsive force. A simple concept, but to difficult in your topsy turvy world.
Boy, up is down and black is white for this jibroni kid “floy”. That was regimes, not property rights respecting anarchists; ROFL!
What a maroon this “floy” is….
Good point, I think you are 100% correct here.
“Floy”
…………rest of that comment makes zero sense, nothing to respond to………
As for your straw man tactics, I would remind you that it was anarchists (like you libertarians) who were the ones who sparked World War One, and who assassinated William McKinley, and who spawned the Bolshevics, the self same who spawned the murderous Second World War and starved 20 million in the Ukraine through their “persuasion”
WOW!!! Speaking of straw man tactics!! Whew! Somebody needs to pick up a simple history book.
1. Woodrow Wilson got us into the “Great War”, the War to End All Wars. He was a democrat.
2. McKinley was shot by a deranged REPUBLICAN who had attended some anarchist meetings, but was believed to be a government plant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Czolgosz
3. FDR started WWII, not any anarchist. And it was Stalin that starved the people of the Ukraine.
You REALLY need to learn some facts.
When human beings assemble in a society and in a civilization, that necessarily places restrictions on behavior, limitations on boundaries, controls on actions, and obligations on resources.
Spoken like a true Stalinist.
PEACE
Note here, it was not I who waived around the claim of “100% gun owner rights”–one of YOUR side did so while simultaneously advocating “0% taxes”…and strangely he finds no personal hypocrisy in his own parasitic use of the system that he speaks freely against here;…but as he “judges” himself, I suppose he is incapable of seeing his own hypocrisy.
The dissembling of you so-called “intellectual giants” (all of whom are in fact anarchists if one bothers to sort through the gobbledey-gook contortions of your rhetoric), is what is the real lunacy, and is the real sociopathic mind set.
As for your straw man tactics, I would remind you that it was anarchists (like you libertarians) who were the ones who sparked World War One, and who assassinated William McKinley, and who spawned the Bolshevics, the self same who spawned the murderous Second World War and starved 20 million in the Ukraine through their “persuasion”…and I remind again that it was your boy pauli who was the one waiving his gun around here like Squeaky Fromme; not me.
And incidentally, I most certainly will be the judge of any of you, should any of you come before me in my capacity as juror.
There is NO such utopia called a “country where people are able to live according to their own consciences.”
When human beings assemble in a society and in a civilization, that necessarily places restrictions on behavior, limitations on boundaries, controls on actions, and obligations on resources.
When the “consciousness” of an individual is at askance with the law and society (or this so-called “monopoly” government which is an absurd concept, apparently made by libertarian Leftists), when that happens, that individual’s “consciousness” and “self judgment” can indeed be coerced if necessary. That is the law. Justice, after all, holds a sword I remind.
Allan,
You write: “They embody everything our Founding Fathers fought against!”
MY understanding…(and my understanding MUST be considered correctly acceptable under the definition here “that every man is free to be the judge of himself” and that no one can condemn me for my understanding under the definitions that you and your group espouse hereon)…is this:
It is you and yours who represent the mindset today of the British Parliament back then, and do so with the airs (so amply demonstrated here) of an aloof aristocratic “superior” class…a class so “enlightened” in social discourse and “uplifting” of the human spirit as to detail their lewdness in filthy sadistic sodomistic posts hereon, and then to applaud them, finding them “humorous”.
Those who retain conservative ideals under Judeo-Christian values are the actual Patriots here who fight against your style of liberal despotism.
You and yours would use the coercion of the mob (for example, Gay “Pride” parades of criminal exhibitionism, Stonewall riots, etc.) to force your agenda into each and every community in this nation, whether those communities accept YOUR concept of “free” or not. Ditto dope. Ditto abortion. Ditto domestic and foreign policy. Ditto et al.
Armed rebellion in this nation will indeed come. In fact, I rather suspect that it is inevitable.
And it will most likely be sparked in “responsive” defense against some liberal or anarchist group making yet more demands upon this people, by their never ending rioting and demonstrating, their never ending false Gate’s-type accusations of racism, etc….eventually the people and the States will indeed say enough.
Good luck with your liberal Leftist sophistry at that point, for you will surely need your luck, as God is certainly not on your side.
Why are you people arguing with a bunch of lunatics? Forget their anti-homosexual agenda, did nobody notice that Chuck Baldwin’s first post calls for ARMED REVOLUTION? How did that work out in 1861? And why would anybody who wants freedom think that these guys would be on our side, anyway? They embody everything our Founding Fathers fought against!
They don’t want freedom, they just want to build a world where THEY will be the boss! (By the way, please note that as Ludwig von Mises pointed out, this is the motivation that leads to so much infighting among SOCIALISTS. Not much irony there!) These people are the “Christian” equivalents of the Muslims who stone women to death for appearing in public without wearing burkhas, being accused of adultery, etc. If they have their way, the entire world will be engulfed in crusades and jihads until the prophecy of Armageddon is self-fulfilled.
They call themselves Christians, but how many innocent people will they murder in the name of “righteousness”? How many have already been murdered in the Middle East?
They talk about documented cases of school children being taught fisting, but provide no such documentation. They chide others for their religious views, but apparently have never heard of the Sermon On the Mount. Excuse me, but WHO are the hypocrites?
These people are insane, delusional religious extremists, who apparently have no sense of compassion whatsoever. Anybody heard of the Spanish Inquisition?
Please go back and read the first post again. Then think about the recent cold-blooded murder of an abortion doctor IN CHURCH.
If you enjoy sparring with sociopaths, then by all means, go ahead. Frankly, I think our time would be much better spent preparing for the day when “God” – or maybe just those voices in their heads – tells them take up arms and smite those of us who actually want to live in a free country. That is, a country where people are able to live according to their own consciences, and decide for themselves how to interpret God’s word (or for that matter, if any such thing exists).
liberalgirl__”I dont find fault with your spelling”
dont–as in do not
as in don’t
The “game” is not over, you see, despite your hubris belief of your own superiority.
What I find ironic is your refusal to rebuke that disgusting post in the first place.
And I find it hypocritical that you do indeed, despite your new lie, find more at fault with my misspelling of a single word than you do in your own acknowledgment, and approval, and acceptance of the entire disgusting post to which I spoke.
Again, you are are a hypocrite.
I dont find fault with your spelling i find irony
and I NEVER said I was perfect…
thanks for playing
i win
PS. and liberal girl, what is actually humorous is that evidently you too did not recognize the misspelling, until your second pass.
Otherwise, you would have noted it in your first dismissive post, instead of your second post and third post…and for all I care a fourth post.
But then again, as I do address you, a hypocrite, I certainly don’t expect you to get the humor of that.
Yes, I misspelled it. It is a word I have trouble with. There are several others besides that one as well.
I am not perfect, and do not profess to be… unlike you.
My error is the spelling, but yours is your arrogant hypocracy.
It is not called “out-grossing”, it is called disgusting. And you find such disgusting behavior and statements humorous, which is itself pathetic.
You find more fault in my misspelling than you do in the filthy post. You would correct me, but not attempt to correct the filthy poster.
That too speaks volumes.about your own “enlightenment”.
And yes, above I also misspelled hypocrisy, and intentionally so…as what you liberal leftists espouse is not democracy, but rather hypocracy…the root word of hippie-crite.
And that would be you.
Floyd__who found the crucifiction of Jesus
me __ that has to be the funniest Freudian(?) slip , misspelled karmic accident whatcha ma callit in a long long time.
hey soldier of jesus the spelling is crucifixion , oh god knowing one … supposedly
LOL , fucking classic
cruci-fiction
haha
crucifiction…
cruci–fiction
fiction
LOL , and all this entertainment for free , how cool is that .
Floyd , it WAS disgusting , but I thought it was just to poke fun at you and Don in a more severe way than you cut people down . Its called out-grossing the other guy . And yes , it was funny.
It was not humorous.
It was disgusting filth, in which you admit you took glee.
At any rate, the both of you represent extreme liberal perverted hysterics well enough.
Unfortunately, your hissing laughter at the filth of that post’s “humor” binds you likewise with a similar mob who found the crucifiction of Jesus equally as funny.
You are no different than they.
Its called humor people … I think:)
So, Donald, you have now taken us into the Twilight Zone…You’ve just written the most bizaare thing I’ve read in a long time. Don’t bother to respond, because I’m done reading.
I will continue to pray for you , however.
“Pauli”
a) “Hubris is exactly the term for those who presume to judge on behalf of God.”
+ “Of course I am for anarchy, as is Jesus:”
= hypocrite.
b) “Monopoly” government
= nonsense
+ double speak in order to ignore the above conclusion under a):
which is that you are a hypocrite.
But I do appreciate you agreeing that liberal Leftists insist that no one (other that yourselves of course) should be allowed to have judgment.
You do evil.
And that you would expend as much effort as you did to apparently attempt to silence me, and yet say nothing, nor condemn in any manner the absolute and disgusting filth here posted by the Donald writer again confirms the conclusion found under a) above.
You are a hypocrite.
ROFLMAO , DRL today you are my favorite.
LOL so funny , so so funny .
thanks for the laugh
Unlike these objective, well documented experts:
“Fisting and God’s Will
The sex act called fisting is a source of confusion and misconceptions for many Christians. This is unfortunate, because it means that many Christian men and women are depriving themselves of what could be the most spiritual sexual experience of their lives.
Like anal sex and BDSM, fisting is often mistakenly associated with the gay community or is considered a sex act too extreme to be appropriate for Christian couples. Not only are these views incorrect, but fisting actually has a scriptural precedent, as we will show.
The Fist of Might
Over and over in the scriptures, the hand and fist of God are described as a symbol of His awesome power and the means through which this power manifests: “O God, God of our ancestors, are you not God in heaven above and ruler of all kingdoms below? You hold all power and might in your fist.” (2 Chronicles 20:6) ……..”
[as taught in Ms Johnson’s first grade ??????]
Since this has become ‘Independent Religion Watch’ ——- soooooooooo much of the old testament is originally from the greek [ya know, where ‘day’ can mean an indeterminate amount of time as well as merely 24 hours] and soooooooo much of the new testament is not only from the roman, but originated by a Jewish traitor named Josephis after the fall of Jerusalem and Masada.
Israeli slaves and Joseph and Moses building the Egyptian pyramids? Not according to thousands of years of writings and ruins of professional villages of highly paid and well motivated locals.
To quote the American philosopher, H. Model T Ford: ‘History [as taught in the public schools] is bunk!’ When you know of some of the back ground to events [the hard fought OTHER pitched battle right before the Normandy invasion at Hastings] dumb assed stuff actually starts to make sense!
As many of the bloggers here are layered with hidden agenda ……….
the bible is meaningless and heres why…
do you remember the childhood game of sitting in a circle , and s/o whispers a phrase to the 1st person m then they whisper it the next and around the circle it goes .
Inevitably the end phrase was nothing like the original . thats with dsay 10-15 peeps and 5 minutes or so .
Imagine the distortions of thousands of years and millions of mens interpretations.
to quote scripture or rely on that book for ‘truth’ is asinine .
god is within , and it doesnt matter what doctrine you believe or building you go to , it only matters what you do to make the world a better place , with love and with kndness and with tolerance .
Grundman you are disgrace to Gods love .
anything that teaches separation is a lie.
In other words there can be legitimate laws against coercive acts, but laws against non-coercive acts are illegitimate by nature.
” Initiation of coercion is inherently immoral.”
Response – What total and inane B.S. Laws against murder are ” coercive ” as are laws against child molesting, rape, and many other crimes.
All the acts you list are coercive. DUH!
again, by extension, you argue for anarchy because you herewith make the law itself impotent, and thereby useless, by suggesting that no one can or should judge.
Of course I am for anarchy, as is Jesus:
http://www.anti-state.com/redford/redford4.html
(read link before responding please).
Anarchy does not mean chaos (actually, monopoly government is far more closely associated with chaos).
It does not mean you can not personally pass judgment (although I would not recommend it: remove the beam from your own eye, etc.), or use persuasion; you can do all those things, as well as use responsive (only!) force.
But you can not initiate (non-responsive) coercion on behalf of your judgment unless you are God, and you are not God.
Again, that is not what Christianity teaches. Christ teaches that when we do judge that we do so not as hypocrites.
Please don’t tell me you are claiming to be free from sin. If you are, I’ll just have to laugh at you and leave it at that.
If you are not free from sin, how do you know whose sin is greater?
You, by extension, argue for abolition of all law…to wit: no one can judge, or no one will be allowed to judge.
Depends on what you mean by law. See above.
But by this, your “utopia” of liberal thought
I am in no way utopian.
Liberal: depends on what you mean by the term. I’m for making the regime as small as possible, and doing away with it entirely whenever and wherever possible. Is that liberal?
ends in the nightmare of a barbaric assemblage (versus a society), in an assemblage without judgment whatsoever…and that is a prescription for extinction.
Nonsense on stilts. See http://praxeology.net/anarcres.htm and read the essays there before perpetuating this old regimist propaganda.
It is also a prescription for the loss of your liberties, because you would take away an inherent responsibility of free people to judge themselves in accordance with the law. You thus turn this obligation over to others, and they become your masters.
Exactly the opposite. I say you are free to judge yourself, persuade others and use responsive force. You say that sinful humans are free to make themselves masters by falsely claiming to rule on behalf of God, whose judgment they can not possibly know, thereby engaging in fraud.
The more the liberal Left spouts this
Again that depends on what you call left.
Does 100% support for gun owners rights and 0% taxation mean left liberal to you?
nonsensical mantra of “who’s place is it to judge?”, the more you condemn yourselves into the hands of others who will make your judgments for you…for them.
Impossible by definition under the system I advocate.
You now attempt to rewrite the law of millenniums to meet ephemeral carnal “wants”
Who said anything about carnal wants? I personally have no interest in gay sex, but ….
“First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me–
and there was no one left to speak out for me.”
As for the laws of millenia, does that include slavery, monarchy, religious wars, etc.? If so, you can have all that, but please keep it far away from me.
(versus rights),
Incorrect, rights are all that concern me.
but you fail to understand that if you do, such “law” can be therefore also be made to “change” again, and this perhaps wholly against you, and yet again, and again.
Non-initiation of force can not be changed, and it can’t be against me because it is voluntary by definition.
That is not a stable foundation for any civilization.
Coercion leads to more coercion, which is the essence of both tyranny and chaos. No wonder they go hand in hand.
We all are required to judge, but do so in accordance with the law.
Yes, and that law is simple: non-initiation of coercion.
You call the good bad, and the bad good.
False.
And thereby somehow believe you have established a “right”. But you only do so in the eyes of the vile hypocrite…who is a detested creature in the eyes of God.
No, actually, there is nothing hypocritical here.
I am saying that I am a sinner and thus not in a position to judge, so who’s the hypocrite?
Bottom line, you will be judged, whether you like it of not…for you will be held accountable.
Not by you.
You do assume a hubris beyond your capacity
Hubris is exactly the term for those who presume to judge on behalf of God.
Of course government DOES have a place in ” legislating morality.” Exhibit A – Thou shalt not kill – the genesis of our laws against murder.
Laws against murder are responsive force, not initiations of force. There is no comparison with legislating your sexual preferences.
You need to make your paragraphs a lot shorter if you want me to read the rest of your response.
I seem to recall too several condemnations Jesus certainly made, not the least of which was his driving out at the tip of a whip those who debauched the Temple.
A) The people driven out were engaged in fraud, which is an initiation of force, and thus can be rightly responded to with force.
B) If you accept that Jesus is God, He does have the right to judge, from which it does not follow that you or I do.
You are in no position to speak for Jesus, nor for His intent, libertariangirl.
Neither are you. For what sin was Lucifer cast out of heaven? Why did God give humans free will? Vengeance is whose says the Lord? etc.
Your arguments, pauli are sophomoric.
Who’s pauli?
And, no.
They illustrate your abject naivete regarding civil sturcture.
On the contrary.
“Initiation of coercion is inherently immoral.” By extension of your “reasoning” all government is therefore ultimately immoral, as is all law.
Monopoly government yes. Law is a different matter. Legitimate law does not involve the initiation of coercion, only response thereto.
For in both government, and in law, coercion exists in many degrees and in many circumstances.
Exists =/= should exist, and regime monopoly edicts =/= law.
You use sophistry here, nothing more.
If anyone is doing so here, it is you, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you ate operating from ignorance.
Oh, Don, # 45: I think it’s hilarious that you automatically assume I’m gay. News flash: you don’t have to be gay to have compassion for others. Just so you’ll know.
Libertarian girl has the right response: ROFL
It’s just that it’s so pathetic that Floyd and Don are serious.
I’ll spend my time with activities that may actually accomplish something. Clearly these men are so sure they’re right they don’t know how full of nastiness
(and bigotry, at least in Don’s case).
Hilariously, I am not from the “Liberal Left”. Just so you’ll know.
I walk among you.
” Initiation of coercion is inherently immoral.”
Response – What total and inane B.S. Laws against murder are ” coercive ” as are laws against child molesting, rape, and many other crimes. Only a nitwit libertarian could come up with such total foolishness.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
” Don Grundmann # 10: YOU are the face of evil. I was going to tell you to go to Hell, but I don’t need to because that’s where sinners go.
People who judge others are sinners. Jesus commanded his followers to love followers didn’t He? Do you faux-Christians REALLY think your behavior is What Jesus would do?
You make me sick. I’m going to go to church and pray for you.
Response – 1) I presume that you can explain your 1st comment as to why. Is it because I challenge your support of perversion? 2) ” people who judge others are sinners?” Looks like you are sinning in writing that sentence. But actually your silly sentence is the standard response of those who are caught being their rodent selves and then complain about it while having absolutely no intention of changing their behavior. 3) When God ” loves ” you He, as your Father and similar to a loving earthly father, chastizes you. He tells you that you are wrong so that you can change to be right. He does NOT ” love you as you are ” which is a fake liberal/rodent ” love ” and distortion of His message. 3) You are apparently already sick. 4) I presume you live in San Francisco as it and only a few other cities have Church of Satan churches.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
” Jesus preached forgiveness , non-judgementalism , unconditional love , and fanatics such as yourself have been mucking it up since he taught it.”
Response – The message of the Bible and of Jesus is that man is separated from God by sin and can be reconciled to Him ONLY by repentance and belief in Christ as our Savior from sin. 1) God forgives or He does not as per your belief. Reject His son and you reject Him. 2) Judgement is God’s and is what you bring upon yourself by your rejection of HIM. 3) His ” unconditional love ” is known as conscience which chastizes you for your rejection of Him. God does NOT accept you as you are. He changes you into what He wants you to be and NOT the reverse. Your phrase is the common as sand statement of humanists who will claim that they save themselves and God either doesn’t exist or He is their trained dog which asks not why but how high when they tell Him to jump. 4) I take the word ” fanatic ” as a compliment as those who you would not call such are simply those fakes who repeat and accept the same drivel/nonsense as in your statement.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
Steven: You demonstrate, too, nothing more than Leftist sophistry.
“To put MAN’S law on par with God’s law is blasphemous. A form of idolatry.”?
Actually, you have it wrong. To take God’s law out of man’s law is what is blasphemous, or better said perhaps is that to disregard God’s law in man’s law is not only blasphemous but hubris as well.
Your evidently espoused system (which is really nothing more nor anything less than anarchy) is destined to fail. And it is destined to place actual real despots over you.
Leftist liberal thinkers, philosophers, love to dissemble. The problem is, after they are done, the whole is worse for it.
You are disingenuous unless you say that you are hereby advocating the abolition of all law…which is where you end up, should your “logic” be extended.
libertariangirl,
“free will is the covenant , not force.”
“But I will remember for them the covenants of their ancestors”–Leviticus.
Even though you forget.
“And whose place is it to judge?”
More inane sophistry on your part…again, by extension, you argue for anarchy because you herewith make the law itself impotent, and thereby useless, by suggesting that no one can or should judge.
Again, that is not what Christianity teaches. Christ teaches that when we do judge that we do so not as hypocrites.
You, by extension, argue for abolition of all law…to wit: no one can judge, or no one will be allowed to judge.
But by this, your “utopia” of liberal thought ends in the nightmare of a barbaric assemblage (versus a society), in an assemblage without judgment whatsoever…and that is a prescription for extinction.
It is also a prescription for the loss of your liberties, because you would take away an inherent responsibility of free people to judge themselves in accordance with the law. You thus turn this obligation over to others, and they become your masters.
The more the liberal Left spouts this nonsensical mantra of “who’s place is it to judge?”, the more you condemn yourselves into the hands of others who will make your judgments for you…for them.
You now attempt to rewrite the law of millenniums to meet ephemeral carnal “wants” (versus rights), but you fail to understand that if you do, such “law” can be therefore also be made to “change” again, and this perhaps wholly against you, and yet again, and again. That is not a stable foundation for any civilization.
Every sentient free citizen is required “to judge” their own actions, and the actions of their peers in respect to the law, and in respect to a host of societal decency requirements, and yes even constraints in advanced civilizations. That is what free people do.
We all are required to judge, but do so in accordance with the law. This is true because we are all members of the jury under this our Anglo-Saxon common law…which again is the organic law in these United States.
But today, this “modern” generation consumes all that has come before it in way of heritage and decency, and it consumes all after it in way of not providing innocence and sacred trust to the unborn who wait in the ethereal reaches that are beyond our ken.
You call the good bad, and the bad good. And thereby somehow believe you have established a “right”. But you only do so in the eyes of the vile hypocrite…who is a detested creature in the eyes of God.
Bottom line, you will be judged, whether you like it of not…for you will be held accountable.
By extension of your “reasoning” all government is therefore ultimately immoral, as is all law.
Of course.
It is hard enough to follow God’s laws, all 612 of them. Thankfully, we have a merciful God.
To put MAN’S law on par with God’s law is blasphemous. A form of idolatry.
PEACE
Your arguments, pauli are sophomoric. They illustrate your abject naivete regarding civil sturcture.
“Initiation of coercion is inherently immoral.” By extension of your “reasoning” all government is therefore ultimately immoral, as is all law.
For in both government, and in law, coercion exists in many degrees and in many circumstances. You use sophistry here, nothing more.
free will is the covenant , not force.
Forgiveness? Yes, but there are some sins that are unpardonable AND each will be held accountable who do them
And whose place is it to judge?
Morality is the very basis of law, without which no society will survive…including our own, however sophisticated, and regardless of how technologically advanced.
Initiation of coercion is inherently immoral.
People who judge others are sinners.”
This is not true, and is again, a demonstrable error in liberal Leftist thinking, as already pointed out. You are called to discern the truth, and to not judge as do the hypocrites.
I do not pretend to speak for the poster Mr. Grundmann.
But my own observations are that you confuse love with lust. You confuse it with desire. You confuse it with carnal wants.
And you confuse not judging like the hypocrites with the oblivious inability to discern, or the deliberate refusal to do so.
Ever learning, to paraphrase, and ever evolving, but still never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
When you go to Church, as you claim you will do, you would condemn yourself by any such prayer that you here threaten to make in your mockery…but then you know this, and will still nevertheless “judge” all else other than yourself. YOU passed judgment upon the man yourself.
You are therefore a hypocrite.
Still, love dictates that you too may have salvation. The first step of which is to go and sin no more.
It apparently is a step that you are incapable of making. Whether by ignorance or cowardice, is not mine to speculate.
Don Grundmann # 10: YOU are the face of evil. I was going to tell you to go to Hell, but I don’t need to because that’s where sinners go.
People who judge others are sinners. Jesus commanded his followers to love followers didn’t He? Do you faux-Christians REALLY think your behavior is What Jesus would do?
You make me sick. I’m going to go to church and pray for you.
You__”and how will we even know right from wrong w/o the government or church telling us…”
He__”When the light within is out, how great is that darkness.”
You are in no position to speak for Jesus, nor for His intent, libertariangirl. You have here on purpose distorted completely His teachings.
You say: “Jesus preached forgiveness , non-judgementalism, unconditional love…” But you bastardize His teachings to fit your own twisted agenda…indeed demonstrating your own “fanaticism.”
Forgiveness? Yes, but there are some sins that are unpardonable AND each will be held accountable who do them…not the least of which is leading the children astray. That is the reason Jesus said, “Let them come unto Me.”
Unconditional love? Yes, and that is defined as obeying the laws and commandments of God.
“Non-judgementalism”? Here you are definitely in error.
We are called to be wise in our judgments. No where are we told to abandon judgment, or to make no judgments. We are told to judge not like hypocrites.
Liberals, like you, confuse Jesus’ teachings.
You would point out the fact that he forgave the adulterous woman, but will completely forget the part where He told her to go and sin no more. Sin no more.
If the adulterous woman loved Jesus, then she would have gone and done as he asked…for as Jesus pointed out, you love me if you do as I ask.
I seem to recall too several condemnations Jesus certainly made, not the least of which was his driving out at the tip of a whip those who debauched the Temple.
It was for this He was crucified…a characteristic habit of despots not unlike the liberal Left of today who mock and defame and demand blood sport. You do not make that action any more legitimate, regardless the size of your Leftist lynch mob…or the size of the mob pounding upon Lot’s door.
You know nothing of being a lamb of God. That is evident. You cannot recognize the Shepherd’s voice because you are not of His flock.
Bottom line, libertariangirl, you are not qualified to speak as to Jesus’ intent, or His message.
You do assume a hubris beyond your capacity…as Leftists are often wont to do. For nothing to them is sacred beyond satisfying their own crotch’s lusts, or their gluttonous appetite for intoxicants and ephemeral earthly power.
**Morality is the very basis of law, without which no society will survive
me__ and how will we even know right from wrong w/o the government or church telling us…
without control mechanisms chaos will ensue and debauchery will reign !
rofl
“Morality” is indeed legislated all the time, despite liberal claims to the contrary.
Society does have a vested interest, as it always has had, ever since there was even an entity known as a society…and before that, the actual organic concept of a family.
Laws of nature, common law, and written or proclamation law are all of them based on morality.
That you yourselves may have abandoned morality in your own pursuits and agendas, and even indeed though you may do so as a “modern” majority, the abandonment en mass does nothing to lessen the truth.
Morality is the very basis of law, without which no society will survive…including our own, however sophisticated, and regardless of how technologically advanced.
and this is why , sometimes , we can’t work with the CP .
howvere Im gonna go with the guess that Don is a ‘fundamental’ of his Party and that his attitude is not indicative of the majority.
DG_ The attack upon the children of our nation is easy to document.
me__ i think our standards of proof differ as to what is valid “documentation” LOL
DG_who are simply too loveless and cowardly to stand up in defense of our current generation
me __oh I stand masquerader
I said American religiousness can be scary , I never said christian . and quite frankly the vast majority of christians are genuine good people . put the ‘fundamental’ in front of it and then its becomes frightening. but that goes for Muslim and every other religion as well Im sure has a small minority sect making the rest look bad .
Jesus preached forgiveness , non-judgementalism , unconditional love , and fanatics such as yourself have been mucking it up since he taught it.
Thou shalt not kill, unless DoD or local/ state law enforcement trains you, clothes you, arms you!
” where we agree is that government has no place in dictating morality .”
Response – Of course government DOES have a place in ” legislating morality.” Exhibit A – Thou shalt not kill – the genesis of our laws against murder. Of course this could be claimed to be ” bigoted , fundamentalist religious facism ” ( of which, instead of giving thanks for the protections which spring from the Christian religion, we are counseled to consider it as ” fascism ” and to be afraid of it ) and if the masses are programmed to accept this argument the loss is minimally theirs but will also involve ” collateral damage ” for the countless people who are affected by the endorsed societal mayhem and violence both now and in the generations to come which follows the breakdown of morality. Similarly as the homosexual culture advances its agenda ( of which I above provided multiple current examples of which the reader either ” gets it ” or not and by choice or – most commonly – not ) the collapse of morality will lead to countless tragedies of ever increasing magnitude that will be greeted by the refrain of the sheep – you can’t legislate morality – who are simply too loveless and cowardly to stand up in defense of our current generation and especially of those to come. Of course those who are pulling the strings and advancing the agenda, the Plantation Masters of our nation, totally understand this moral weakness and indeed rely on its continuance and expansion ( via the LP among countless other allies ) to achieve their control over ( from their view ) the ” cattle/mice.” The attack upon the children of our nation is easy to document. You just have to decide if you give a damn about it. If not it is a clear indicator of which side you have chosen in the battle for humanity.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
[a] just got up ??????
[b] intentional attempt at humor ???????
[c] darn Romanian Spell Check ???????
[d] can I get a money refund from the swap meet ?????
[e] at least I am smart enuf to demand documentation [‘fisting’ ????}|
(I didn’t mean for that to come out sounding so harsh. I was just trying to point out the irony of spelling ‘Mensa’ incorrectly.)
Somehow I doubt you have such a ‘quality IQ’…. you know, considering you botched the spelling of Mensa (which, for some reason, I doubt was a typo).
Lib Grrl: again, if a short haired, Mid Western, marathon running, ROTC type can see thru the lies [OK with a Menza quality IQ] then there is hope for us all —- altho California’s sham Proposition 8 was a study in Josef Gerbels’ typ0 of public relations!
Progressive, being better today than yesterday and not as good as tomorrow!
And government dictating morality and political parties spewing known lies, lies, lies!
Bad, bad, bad!
DG__base moral philosophy which then expresses through the Libertarian Party which I perceive is similarly disinterested
we dont want to ‘ LEGISLATE’ morality is doesnt mean we dont have any . some of us are pearly white and square as they come , some not so much:)
where we agree is that government has no place in dictating morality .
Birds of a feather , flock together , voluntarily or not at all .
Im far more afraid of a bigoted , fundamentalist religious facism , much like Islamo Facsism but in the american religious form , taking foothold and damaging my children than I am of some non existent gay agenda
Don , I do not believe homosexuals are attacking our Children.
if anything is it is media and t.v and easily accessible sexual content on the internet.
i do not believe in a great conspiracy of gay people to distort and abuse our children
Debra – 1) I am happy for your accomplishments but the relevant question to the topic is do you really give a damn regarding the attack of the homosexual community against children? Of course the philosphies from which we both approach the question will lead to our current difference of opinion and action. I believe from a moral perspective that the early sexualization of children as intended by the homosexual movement, and as directly expressed by their actions and open plans for action, is a direct social engineering attack upon the core of the child, their soul, which will lead to, and is intended to do so, psychological and social damage and aberrations of virtually countless forms in their later existence ( instead of life ). Is it ” judgement ” or simply observation, perhaps inaccurate, that you could care less about such incalculable damage to the child? I would presume that such perspectives spring from your own base moral philosophy which then expresses through the Libertarian Party which I perceive is similarly disinterested in such moral damage to the child if not outright encouraging of it. Is such a perception inaccurate regarding the LP? Does it have ANY moral perspective which would protect children except what I suspect that it would claim – that it would ” protect ” children from ” bigotry ” as imagined via Christian opposition to homosexuality? 2) If someone attacks you and I see it I am not ” judging ” them to know that A) they are evil ( yes, it does exist ) and B) they must be stopped. Your simplistic and out of context ” judging ” remark is the standard squeal of those who are busy performing evil and object to being challenged, and especially stopped, for doing so. It is the moral equivalent of the pig wanting to keep their lipstick on to avoid being told the obvious – they ARE a pig.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
Instructive videos in fisting are available at your local pornshop. Any fisting vid will do fine as fisting is gender-neutral, including the self-fisting.
Judge not lest you be judged Don.
debra dedmon
Vice Chair , Clark County LP
At Large Rep , LPNevada
former Vice Chair , LPNevada
former member of Judicial Comm . LPNevada
former correspondence secretary , Clark County LP
regional director for November Coalition
former LP candidate for State Assembly
and County Commission .
” im still laughing too hard to even address your post , I may not at all , it should stand alone as a ridiculously , hysterically funny testament to your character, intelligence and spirit.
ROFL , can you even believe people actually think this shit?”
Response – As a typical response from the enemies of the generations to come my post is ridiculed since it cannot be refuted as it is entirely factual. This can be demonstrated by the public record of everything which I document. So the enemies of humanity, those who support and promote the perversion which I document and especially its attack upon the children of our nation, will actually LAUGH at the documented attack upon the children of our nation. How sick the nation has become. My ” character, intelligence, and spirit ” will stand in defense of the children of the generations to come. Yours obviously will not.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
with 2 you get eggroll
….time for basketweaving class
lol
DG__program; B) ( a current reality ) even before homosexual marriage was legalized in Massachusetts the first opportunity that homosexual advocates had to instruct students in their schools was used to conduct ELEMENTARY school classes in ” fisting ” ( insertion of fist up the anus – go to massresistance.org for the proof and to see parents attempts to fight back to protect their children )
oh im goin..
LOL
seriously Grundman , your the VP of a state party?
im still laughing too hard to even address your post , I may not at all , it should stand alone as a ridiculously , hysterically funny testament to your character, intelligence and spirit.
ROFL , can you even believe people actually think this shit?
“Doth speakth too much”
Me thinks. or “It takes one to know one?” Okay that was mean. But, seriously you really have it bad for “gays.” Btw, do you have any children?
peace
” The myth of male homosexual organized mayhem, inspite of NAMBLA and homosexual Catholic priests, is grossly over stated. Kinda like lies spouted [sucessfully] in the shameful pro Proposition 8 effort.”
Response : 1) The homosexual population is approximately 2% of our overall population. The number of child molestors within the 98% of the population that is ” straight ” is hence automatically larger than the number within the homosexual 2% but the number per capita of molestors within the 2% is far higher than that within the 98%. 2) The homosexual community claims that ” lies ” were used to pass Prop 8; specifically regarding the intention of teaching homosexuality in public schools. This was NOT a lie but the ABSOLUTE TRUTH as shown by A) ( a current reality ) school districts throughout California introducing homosexual indoctrination starting in KINDERGARTEN under the guise of a so-called ” Safe Schools ” program; B) ( a current reality ) even before homosexual marriage was legalized in Massachusetts the first opportunity that homosexual advocates had to instruct students in their schools was used to conduct ELEMENTARY school classes in ” fisting ” ( insertion of fist up the anus – go to massresistance.org for the proof and to see parents attempts to fight back to protect their children ); and C) ( the planned result ) the legalization of homosexual marriage is not a end in itself but is a planned key step to file lawsuits shortly following that legalization which will demand that ALL textbooks of ALL grades be revised to show that all things homosexual are equal to ( if not better than ) all things heterosexual; i.e.; the planned mass indoctrination of and attack upon the children of our nation. Even during the campaign itself a FIRST GRADE class was taken out of class and over to San Francisco City Hall to observe a homosexual marriage ceremony. Why is it so important to the homosexual community to indoctrinate and sexualize children in KNIDERGARTEN and FIRST GRADE on upwards? Because homosexual philosophers have declared that the entire homosexual community can NEVER be ” free ” until ALL children are “free;” i.e.; they can have sex at any age with anyone and at any time. Additionally the authors of the recent ” hate crimes ” bill introduced in the US Senate REF– USED to add a amendment which would deny pedophiles the ability to claim to be a special protected class of person. Hence when the bill passes pedophiles will gain special protection as will, according to the language of the bill, people who urinate on each other, those who deficate on each other, and those who eat and drink such body waste; known by normal people as psychotics. Lastly the homosexual movement claims that pedophiles have been discriminated against by culture and religion and that rather than being criminals they should, as just one example, be awarded a special place of honor at the head of the table in any family gathering as they have a special type of ” love ” which liberates children and allows them to grow up more properly and fully; free from the ” religious restraints ” imposed by their parents and our culture. Proposition 8 was a noble and God-blessed attempt to protect our children for generations to come from the nightmare which legalization of homosexual marriage will produce. As illustrated on this thread and in unfortunately countless other venues in our nation those generations have multitudes of enemies who will willingly and happily sacrifice them in order to establish, for the attackers, a anti-Christian paradise in the remains of our nation where morality is totally destroyed in practice as well as in the result of countless children being turned into emotional psychotic zombies via the attack of homsexual culture and society upon their bodies and minds. Proposition 8 stands in defense of all future generations as do its political supporters inclusive of the American Independent Party and the Constitution Party.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
Bad fashion sense?
Queen Elton John?
Along with straight women, the twisted logic of female clothing?
There is three right here!
As a former Southern Baptist ‘Royal Ambassador’ and Eagle Scout and Tribe of Micosay, I was entirely wrong. It is not blatant adult male homosexuals whom are in an organized search for young male recruits to abuse.
It is people like me whom are the profiled danger. Straight white males. The number of female children prayed upon by fathers, step fathers, and straight males dwarfs female homosexual and or male homosexual misbehavior. The myth of male homosexual organized mayhem, inspite of NAMBLA and homosexual Catholic priests, is grossly over stated. Kinda like lies spouted [sucessfully] in the shameful pro Proposition 8 effort.
Don,
Would you be able to name a specific attack the gay community has launched against our nation?
mdh – Thank you for your compliment regarding my website. As a clarification I must point out that there is no such thing as a ” homophobe ” or a condition such as ” homophobia.” These are both marketing terms used by the homosexual community in its attack upon our nation.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
Baldwin is a theocrat and also a homophobe. I like some of his policies, but he’s no Ron Paul, and he’s certainly no libertarian. Honestly though, the homophobic slant is what really bugs me about the Constitution Party overall. Don Grundman’s website is rife with such sentiments, and Baldwin has written plenty himself on the matter.
I can much more easily get over the protectionist crap or the bible-thumping.
New Federalist,
Saying “cheap shot” implies I am trying to insult Baldwin. I am not. He is a theocrat. Why deny that?
Donald,
Ad-hominem attacks does not make my original point wrong.
Well, tab does not have a whole lot to begin with.
It is scary how much I agree with this self described conservative GOP.
[But his style is that of an agent provocateur.]
Cheap shot, tab.
Wow, that is a great release. If only he wasn’t a theocrat.
Baldwin is great at invoking the Founding Fathers though. Something the LP needs to do a lot more of.
As a Libertarian fan of Pastor Baldwin, I join him in saying, LET IT COME! This is basically the only way that we can be awakened as a nation to fight back the forces of Federal fascist/socialist/statist tyranny. The states MUST take back their legitimate constitutional sovereignty and independence, no matter what B.O. and his elitist thugs say. Along with this, a renewed reliance on the Sovereign Lord of creation that gave us our rights and freedoms in the first place. It seems that we must reach that “critical mass” crisis point of frogs boiling in the statist pot for the populace to figure out that the government only “cares” about maintaining and expanding its own power and privilege, and sees us only as the ATM machine to pay for their utter disdain and mistrust of their “supporters”. Good thing the LPWI and the CPWI are working together….we agree on far more than we disagree.