Chelene Nightingale Receives the Endorsement of Former Congressman Tom Tancredo

Chelene Nightingale, a candidate for Governor of California under the banner of the American Independent Party, spent the weekend campaigning at the California Eagle Forum, which was held in San Diego with over 350 attendees. The Eagle Forum is an organization of non-partisan conservatives headed by Phyllis Schlafly. This article describes the event’s happenings:

Also attending and speaking at the Conservative forum were California Senatorial candidate Chuck DeVore, local San Diego sheriff candidate Jay LaSuer and two gubernatorial candidates – independent Chelene Nightingale and Republican Larry Naritelli, who both resonated with the conservative crowd more than the two leading contenders; billionaire Republicans Meg Whitman and Steve Poizner.

The article then goes on to state that the big shock of the weekend was Tom Tancredo’s endorsement of Chelene Nightingale.

A big announcement was also made at the weekend event by Nightingale who said she was endorsed by former Republican Congressman and presidential candidate Tom Tancredo of Colorado.

Nightingale has only one opponent in the AIP gubernatorial race, Markham Robinson. Other individuals appearing at the convention include Michelle Bachmann, Orly Taitz, Duncan Hunter Sr., and James O’Keefe.

UPDATE: This press release comes via the Chelene Nightingale Campaign

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

May 19, 2010

Former Congressman Republican Tom Tancredo Endorses Nightingale for Governor

Los Angeles, CA – California’s number one blog site, Californiality, recently stated that “the Chelene Nightingale for Governor Campaign is anything but dull.” The campaign’s latest endorsement continues to prove that the Nightingale for Governor Campaign continues to create interest and excitement in an otherwise pedestrian campaign.

Although the two main Republican Gubernatorial candidates make claims about being allies of voters who demand secure borders, America’s leading voice for border security, former Colorado Congressman, Tom Tancredo, has opted to cross party lines and endorse Chelene Nightingale for Governor of California.

Tancredo, who continues to be the nation’s acknowledged leader in the battle against illegal immigration and amnesty and for secure borders declare, “California is on the edge of a political and financial abyss. It is desperately in need of leadership that does not come out of the ’let’s do it the way it has always been done and expect things to be different’ school for politicians. Chelene Nightingale went to the college of constitutional principles instead and graduated at the head of her class. It’s a school all Americans should attend, or at least elect leaders who did.”

Chelene Nightingale has been one of California’s leading activists for the cause of secure borders and against amnesty for illegal aliens for the past several years. Chelene met Mr. Tancredo in Washington DC back in 2007 while lobbying on these issues as a private citizen. “Since Tom spent his career on Capitol Hill, he truly understands the dangers and damaging effects that open borders have on our nation’s sovereignty and security. Our team is humbly honored with this prestigious endorsement,” enthused Nightingale.

The 2010 Nightingale Campaign has also been honored with endorsements by the Constitution Party National Committee, Chuck Baldwin, G. Edward Griffin, the National Veterans Coalition, and many others. http://www.nightingaleforgovernor.com/pages/Endorsements.html

With the primary election fast approaching, voters are reminded that have until May 24th to register American Independent in order to vote for Chelene Nightingale on June 8th.

To contact the campaign, please call the office at 310-237-5590 or email contact@nightingaleforgovernor.com

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243 thoughts on “Chelene Nightingale Receives the Endorsement of Former Congressman Tom Tancredo

  1. Don Grundmann

    Certainly Tom Tancredo recognized the superior candidate who will truly fight for the state and nation. If he knew how utterly corrupt Mark Robinson is I am sure that his endorsement would have been even more emphatic. Another victory for the REAL AIP, the non-corruption faction of the party.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  2. Cody Quirk

    Looks like you beat me to this story Trent.

    But Robinson doesn’t stand a chance in the primary now, unless he can get the endorsement and support of someone that’s of equal stature to Tancredo.

  3. Trent Hill Post author

    Cody,

    Only because someone beat ME to it.

    This endorsement won’t reach most of the primary voters–this thing is far from decided yet, though I understand the CP-affiliated group is giving this effort the old college try.

  4. Mark Seidenberg

    T): Trent Hill,

    You are in error. The American Independent Party is not affiliated with the CP. On June 27,
    2008, the AIP State Central Committee voted
    to affliated with the America’s Independent
    Party.

    California Secretary of State Debra Bowen lists
    the AIP website under its quilified political
    party chairman’s name, viz. Markham Robinson.

    http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_f.htm

    This website will link you to

    http://www.aipca.org/

    Then click on the national affiliation website. You will be connected to the America’s Independent Party of Fenton, Michigan.

    Bottom line, the CP is just past history with the
    AIP.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party & Chairman of
    the Orange County Central Committee of the
    American Independent Party.

  5. Trent Hill Post author

    “though I understand the CP-affiliated group is giving this effort the old college try.”

    I meant the CP affiliated group of AIP activists. I.e., most of them. I know the AIP of CA currently is recognized by the SoS as being affiliated with the America’s Independent Party of Alan Keyes.

  6. Peter Gemma

    I hope someone in Chelene Nightingale’s campaign is smart enough to raise the money and do a solid mail piece to AIP voters citing her credentials and the fact that just about all credible AIP, CP, independent, and conservative leaders are backing her bid. It’s about time the CA AIP had someone out in front who is articulate and disassociates herself from petty squabbling.

  7. Patriot

    Okay, seriously though…How could voters that know anything of Ms. Nightingale’s background, accept that their candidate filed for bankruptcy last year, and has hidden this? Just like any other candidate running for a PUBLIC seat…Public Office is a Public TRUST”..When you lie to the public…you should not be entrusted to public office. “Patriotism is the last refuge for scoundrels”

  8. Trent Hill Post author

    Davi,

    If you’re saying you doubt the endorsement, then I think that’s silly. This news report, and now IPRs, have appeared in Google News, there 350 people in the audience who heard Tancredo’s endorsement (according to this story) and…to top it all off, I have inside sources which can confirm the endorsement.

  9. Trent Hill Post author

    Patriot and wolfeman are the same person, likely Mark Seidenberg or Markham Robinson.

    If it IS either of those men questioning Chelene Nightingale’s reputation and integrity, then it’s laughable–considering their hijacking of the AIP in CA.

  10. Trent Hill Post author

    Davi,

    For the record, I believe the endorsement came from Tancredo personally, not from Team America PAC.

  11. Patriot

    I might add about this forum that candidates attended…Orly Taliz was a speaker at this event…Ms. Taliz a “birther” extremist….that has recently been cited by a court to pay a fine for frivolous lawsuits….This was a fringe forum….also, I would like to see anyone of import from California that supports Nightingale…for her run…and whom approves of her views that are extreme and off the charts…such has “chemtrails” (the government is trying to poison us from the sky) Micro-chips being implanted in Americans…Internment camps are being built for americans and the grand daddy of them all that the Government was BEHIND 9-11!!! If you can in good conscience back these views from this candidate…have at it….I personally will be voting for someone with Better education and reasoning skills. Not a “loose cannon” (and I quote from an article that said serveral gov candidates have referred to Nightingale as this)

  12. patriot

    Trent, I am not Sedenberg I am a concerned citizen of CA….why is it anyone that speaks their mind about these candidates get called these other people….personally I will be voting for Jerry Brown….the AIP is not my cup of tea….Please don’t discredit my views my saying I am someone I am not…thank you

  13. Trent Hill Post author

    Please document Nightingale’s claims about 9/11 and internment camps. I have not seen any statements like that from her.

  14. Patriot

    Trent, there are youtube videos..one titled “what in the world are they spraying” by a mike Murphy…its actually a 4 part series…she talks about 9-11 and other topics…

  15. Patriot

    Trent… google “a radical conversation with chelene Nightingale” by mike murphy….

  16. patriot

    You know I just wanted to add one more thing…I have posted before and I am discredited saying I am these other people etc….I want to say why and who runs for California really riles me. I am a native californian, I love california…my kids were all born here…my wife..etc.. I saw what Swartzeneggar didn’t do….I actually voted for Jerry Brown…when he ran the first time….so you see I LOVE my california. I love the land (the people, not so much, lol) It tears me up to see what has happen to my sweet state. I still go to the beach just to pick up random trash…I have taugh my kids to do the same….I know we need someone with SOUND economic principles for our state…and sound reasoning skills. It scares the heck out of me to think that someone like Nightingale..would try to win this seat. Okay, everyone is entitled to their opinion..and freedom of speech and a freedom to run for an office….I think she is more of an activist than someone that could understand the complex workings of running a state.
    When I read about her qualifications and her own financial ruin…I hit myself in the head and say WTH!!! How how could people not see. But, with that said…the proof will be in the elections….look I just want people to see candidates without the “sound bites” and sugar coating…do some investigation…character and background do count. I can’t see CA go down the drain…thanks

  17. Davi Rodrigues

    trent,

    It is one thing for a politician to make an oral statement, and quite another for them to put it in writing. Maybe he does endorse her; but it is not silly to ask to see it in writing.
    Nightingale has always existed in a state of virtual propriety. She has made many statements that appear to be something, but in practice are unproven.
    She makes a claim to have been a vice president of a distribution company, but there is no proof or even a reference to the name of this company

    She makes a claim that she was managing director of a 501c3, but upon research, there was nothing in writing from the Attorney Generals office to support that claim. In fact, it appears that she was operating/managing the 501c3 illegally for years in California.

    I could go on and on about her claims, and the lack of substantiation, but the point is, there is talk, and their is documentation. Nightingale has proven herself as a talker. Based upon my experience, the lack of her substantiation, and the evidence of her falsehoods thus far, I think it very sensible to question anything she says.

    And yes, she was quite the theory buff during her time at SOS. Not just a buff, but if you didn’t subscribe and support her theories/campaigns/assertations or whatever you want to call them in relation to 9-11, the fed, the chemtrails, the Obama birth, etc, she marginalized, demonized, or belittled you, if not outright banishing you from the organization

  18. Don Grundmann

    ” Patriot ” – You complain about Chelenes bankruptcy; a process that literally thousands of Americans go through every day. Why don’t you complain about the far more serious actions of Mark Robinson, her opponent and also a candidate for Governor, deliberately filing false documents with the Secretary of State to deceive that office in an attack against the AIP?? Thousands of people file for bankruptcy. ONLY THREE people have conspired to and have deliberately filed false documents with the SOS office – Mark Robinson, Mark Seidenberg, and Ed Noonan. Why and how do you, as a self-styled ” Joe Sixpack,” know about and bring up all of this supposed anti-Chelene information?? Answer – Because you are a lying fake. You are in reality Mark Seidenberg writing under yet another fake name.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  19. Patriot

    Don g. even If I called you personally you would accuse me of being set up by sedenberg…your hatret of these people colors your world. I have a right to voice my opinion just as you do I have a right to be acknowleged as a person with an opinion…its your problem if you think everyone posting anything negative about Nightingale is part of the aip…I am not part of the aip I back jerry Brown…If there was a candidate that held any type of viability in that party I would take note…so far I have not seen anyone that reprsents my views. Jerry Brown as a democrat actually is more a republican (of old) than the modern day reps…ala Whitman and Poizoner…Jerry brown has educational and government experience that We need in CA in my opinion..I will back him…I think he has shown solid credentials..and right now we in CA don’t need to play around with silly people that don’t know how to run their own lives…have a good one

  20. Don Grundmann

    ” Patriot ” – You didn’t answer my question regarding the ultra corrupt Mark Robinson? Why don’t you complain about him? Why complain about a bankruptcy and not about deliberately filing false documents with a government agency??

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  21. Davi Rodrigues

    Filing false papers with a government agency should have triggered an investigation and public records of their finding. Are there any current documents from that government agency that state this?

  22. nobody cares

    these are the same clowns that post on everythig about nightingale. Seems like someone is paying these people to post on nightingale links. Dirty trick by opposition, but it seems pretty obvious now. These posters are the same posters that are on every nightingale story. So, it seems as if 3 or 4 people don’t like nightingale and are probably getting paid to post smear posts against her.

    She definitely has my vote! anybody to have been endorsed by Tom Tancredo gets my vote. Finally real candidates to vote for and the establishment is fearful-hence the smear tactics used on the blog sites against nightingale.

    give it up boys! nightingale AIP or Constitutional Party whatever-we have a REAL candiate for governor this year. Every one in these parties should be jumping for joy that she is getting the momentum she is-AIP or Constitutional Party. She is the face and name that either of those parties need to get any credibility. An AIP or Constitutional Party needs a voice and face like nightingale’s to have any clout with voters.
    I dont care what party she is in, she has a large batch of supporters for her bid for governor.

    I think Robinson or Sedenberg is running against her, but nobody has ever heard of these guys. Nobody knows who they, or what they are. 10’s of 1,000’s know who Chelene is. She has been all over the state campaigning on liberty and freedom. These other guys (whether they run the AIP CP whatever) don’t even have websites. Thats pretty pathetic if they plan to run for governor.

    nightingale is the best choice for CA and these 3 or 4 clowns want to smear her???? I hope nobody thinks that the posts about her past are true. It is pretty obvious that smear tactics used by opposition will say anything to make nightingale look bad. But these 3-4 people make themselves look bad when they post all over the internet the same bs that nobody cares about. Especially that whole save our state stuff. Nobody cares. As far as most know, there are 2 different organizations. one is .org and the other .net or someting. So, I guess the one can say anything about her in relation to THEIR organization even though she had nothing to do with that organization.

    anyways, I am starting to look like these clowns who write long and boring junk nobody reads anyways. better stop here.

    GO NIGHTINGALE ALL THE WAY!!!!!!

  23. MORE .......... Lake

    Trent Hill // May 19, 2010:

    “Patriot and wolfeman are the same person, *yeah, right, sure* likely Mark Seidenberg or Markham Robinson (and Edward Noonan ?????)” (says whom, a constant liar like Mister Hill ??????????? Spin doctor in the Tom Knapp tradition.) “If it IS either of those men questioning Chelene Nightingale’s reputation and integrity, then it’s laughable–considering their hijacking of the AIP in CA.”

    *sarcasm* and they did it all alone, with little or no help! There is little more but petty, personal spit ball pillow fights. *sarcasm* and it is not like other states have not disaffiliated (big bad Texas and some other jurisdiction ……) and *both personal experience and duplicate verification* it is not like other states are not only grumbling, but planning to bail out of the CP orbit.

    Remember, Doctor Coo Coo Grundmann and Nevadan Space Cadet Captain Cody Banks Quirk (Quirk, Q u i r k, Q * U * I * R * K, the victimless victim), have yelled and screamed long and loud on this site ’bout Don Lake making up the CP dissatisfaction as a personal fiction.

    They also presented the world with a P2008 ‘guarantee’ that Pastor Chuck Baldwin would the the the ‘fer ser’ American Independent Party (nee, non existent California Constitution Party) ballot candidate. (NOT!) Nightingale and Lussenheide and veterans neglector Jim King have joined the chorus off site.

    Whom to believe, whom to believe ………

    [This stuff would be so funny (like former Vice President Daniel Quayle) if it were not so sad!]

  24. MORE .......... Lake

    nobody cares // May 19, 2010:
    “…….. these are the same clowns that post on everythig about nightingale ……”

    Liar! As the June 8th primary looms, numerous interested parties have weighed in on the creditability and future of the non Republican conservatives ………..

    Out right liar!

  25. paulie

    Well, a lot of them seem to share the same IP address. It must be a big house with a lot of people in it.

  26. Patriot

    lol…nobody cares thats right..Nobody cares about third parties for the most part. I want to say something interesting to note…I actually know REAl people in the real world…that are vp of companies with more than 1 employee…lol and we all talk about politics….They are of all ages etc….and when ever I bring up third parties or Nightingale etc…they stare balnkly at me…and say “who?” then they say why do you even pay attention to those “people.” I admit..I feel stupid and realize that I get sucked into petty garbage…and that real REAl candidates not bankrupt…no background activists are just that. No smear…and If Nightingale herslef would address her “Bankruptcy” maybe the talk would die down. Just like the senator..yesterday from Conn. Who had to address his “fake vietnam” story. Why doesn’t Nightingale Adress this issue Bring it out in the open…Put it to rest. Wouldn’t that behoove her campaign? wouldn’t that put an end to it. Its the hiding and secrecy of it all that makes her suspect.

  27. patriot

    hi, I just had a funny thought…rofl so the same 5 people come on these blogs to defend her….and the same 5 people come on to trash her….so that makes 10 people that give a damn…lol Let the games begin…lol

  28. Davi Rodrigues

    There’s nothing to debate as to Nightingale filed Bankruptcy. It’s a matter of public record.
    The debate begins as to whether she perjured herself on the petition or not. We’re trying to get her creditors to weigh in on that one, but in the meantime, the recent court case she lost last week affirmed that she:

    Had a debt she didn’t disclose on her petition

    Did not disclose her BK to the lender for over a year after the loan

    Has not repaid the loan

    But this article is about Nightingales endorsements. Thus far, most, if not all of her endorsements have come from people who stand to lose nothing by endorsing her.
    Tancredo might not know about all of this, and may feel differently after having the knowledge.
    Maybe not though.

  29. Don Grundmann

    ” If Nightingale herslef would address her “Bankruptcy” maybe the talk would die down”

    Response – ” Patriot ” – Who puts out all of this so-called ” talk ” about Chelene? Answer – Rodents like you. YOU are making a mountain out of less than a molehill. Why? Because you support the utter corruption of her opponent Mark Robinson. Why don’t you ” talk ” about the outright corruption and fantastically greater than bankruptcy criminality of her opponent, Mark Robinson, deliberately filing fake documents with the state? You make not a peep regarding his corruption and criminality. Hence you expose exactly who you are.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  30. Don Grundmann

    ” Tancredo might not know about all of this, and may feel differently after having the knowledge.”

    Response – 1) Perhaps he knows who the best candidate is and, more importantly, what is important about that candidate, and 2) if he knew how corrupt Robinson is he would support Chelene even more.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  31. Don Grundmann

    ” Filing false papers with a government agency should have triggered an investigation and public records of their finding.”

    Response – Yes, it should have. UNLESS the agency involved was more than happy to see the AIP attacked and destroyed. UNLESS they were more than happy to have what they have long wanted to do done by other forces so that they could claim clean hands in the murder.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  32. Don Grundmann

    Gene – The REAL AIP, the non-corruption faction of Chairman Jim King and our wonderful candidate Chelene Nightingale, has no ” bad feelings ” except for the ultra corrupt attackers of our party and their supporters. The REAL AIP, as compared to our opponents, is filled with fun-loving lovers of life who are happily fighting to defend our nation. We don’t support ” factionalism ” because we are the only REAL ” faction.” Our opponents are just like cancer. We will defeat them and have a totally healthy body again. Come on over for fun and, especially, the principles of liberty.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  33. Conspiracy

    The agency involved wished to bring down the aip? paranoia will destroy ya….

  34. MORE .......... Lake

    Conspiracy // May 19, 2010:
    “……… wished to bring down the aip? paranoia will destroy ya ….” If not already has:

    2000: deform / reform movement

    2004: Natural Law Party

    2008: National Constitutional Party

  35. Don Grundmann

    The AIP, as the only truly conservative party in the state, has been infiltrated by Republican moles who are involved in the current attack. Additionally Debra Bowen, the Secretary of State, is a foaming-at-the-mouth abortion supporter who is only too happy to see the only true pro-life party in the state destroyed. Additionally the CP, being the 3rd largest party in the nation is a potential refuge for those who are sick of the ” Big Tent ” of the Republican Party which allows a ” Log Cabin Club ” to exert the fantastic influence of the homosexual community as part of a sub-division of the ” moderates ” and ” Rockefeller Republicans ” who are more than willing to sell the nation into the hands of globalization, the United Nations, and the New World Order. Lastly ( and the most important reason ) the CP demands that our wars be authorized by Congress according to that old-fashioned document known as the Constitution. For those who may wish to use the US military as muscle to accomplish their aims, let’s say Israel as a possibility, the CP adherence to the Constitution and the resultant ability of our nation to control our political structures and hence limit the usage of our military in foreign wars is a potential threat that must be stopped. Hence a foreign state sends in their domestion espionage unit, known as the ADL ( an organization that works hand-in-glove with the Southern Poverty Law Center; a noted attacker of the CP and another domestic espionage organization ), and their agents set to work to destroy potential opposition. Combine all of those forces plus the standard greed and lust for power of sinning humans who are willing to betray the nation and stab their grandmother in the back for their moment of glory, not to mention their own payment of ” 30 pieces,” and we have the current situation of the AIP under attack.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  36. wolfefan

    Hi Trent –

    I’m not sure why you think I’m the same person as “Patriot”. I don’t post a ton, but when I do I post on a few topics, not just on AIP/CP items. I hope that my posts are generally properly formatted, with paragraph breaks and the like, and I try to make sure things are spelled correctly. I don’t always succeed, but I try.

    I don’t call names, I apologize when I’m wrong, I ask questions and I hope I provide helpful information from time to time. I don’t think my posts look anything like or cover the same material as either Patriot or the Marks that you mentioned. (I’ve never actually seen a post attributed to Mark Robinson.) I also don’t engage in the back and forth that some of the other posters you’ve mentioned do.

    I know we’re required to provide our e-mail address in order to post here. If you have access to that as an administrator, feel free to drop me a note and we’ll see if we can figure out a way to confirm that I am not Mark Seidenberg or Robinson, should it matter for some reason. At the end of the day each post (mine and/or others) stands or falls on it’s own merits, regardless of who wrote it or what their real name is.

    FWIW, I’m not challenging Chelene Nightingale’s credibility. Someone else noted that the Tancredo PAC site didn’t mention it, and so I checked tancredo.org where it wasn’t mentioned either (at that time) and passed along that information. I have no reason to disbelieve her – I just wondered if there was independent verification of a claim. I did the same thing on one of the Root/Manning threads when someone made a claim about an executive order. Later I did the research and posted the link that I found to the order in question. Patriot, Seidenberg, et. al. rarely if ever post on non-CP/AIP threads.

    Best wishes and thanks for your work (and thanks to paulie, Ross, Cody and the others) on this site. I enjoy visiting and reading several times a day.

  37. MORE .......... Lake

    The only true ………..

    the only true ………….

    the only true ………..

    LP as the only true peace party ……….

    deluded, deluded, deluded ………..

  38. -

    Don Grundmann does not pay imcome tax he has been arrested several times and tried in the court of law…(this guy we should all follow)….

  39. MORE .......... Lake

    paulie // May 19, 2010:
    ” ……… a lot of them seem to share the same IP address. It must be a big house with a lot of people in it ………..”

    This is beyond my scope and I am surprised and I am dubious ………..

  40. MORE .......... Lake

    http://www.newscience.com

    ……… the latest incarnation of denialism, the systematic rejection of a body of science in favour of make-believe. What motivates people to retreat from the real world into denial?

    ………. denial movements have much in common with one another, not least the use of similar tactics (see “How to be a denialist”).

    …… All set themselves up as courageous underdogs fighting a corrupt elite engaged in a conspiracy to suppress the truth or foist a malicious lie on ordinary people. This conspiracy is usually claimed to be promoting a sinister agenda.

  41. Cody Quirk

    Patriot and wolfeman are the same person, likely Mark Seidenberg or Markham Robinson.
    If it IS either of those men questioning Chelene Nightingale’s reputation and integrity, then it’s laughable–considering their hijacking of the AIP in CA.

    = Agreed, if Mark or Markham want to criticize Nightingale on here, they should do it under their own names, not pretending to be someone else; that’s a petty and below-the-belt tactic and only makes you look more and more like scumbags.

    And Paulie is right that these people do strangely share the same IP addresses, I’ve checked myself too. So you’re not really fooling anyone, including me.

    And BTW Lake, I know you do it too, just by looking at the style of writing.

  42. MORE .......... Lake

    Quirk Boy: “And BTW Lake, I know you do it too, just by looking at the style of writing ……….”

    [a] Liar: Wrong spin breath.

    [b] How did Pastor Chuck Baldwin do on the California ballot ?????????

    [c] How is the California Constitution Party doing (as it never existed!) ??????????

    [d] How is the present and future defectors from the National Constitution Party doing, as they are just made up by Don Lake (NOT!) ……….

    [e] How come people all over are now agreeing that California’s Chelene Nightingale’s fitness for Governor is highly suspect ????

    [f] How come folks from all over are now pointing to potential CP defectors ????????

    ah,’tis a puzzlement ……….

  43. Cody Quirk

    Lake, admit that you don’t post under one name- obviously shouting insults and changing the subject only proves your guilt.

  44. Don Grundmann

    ” How come people all over are now agreeing that California’s Chelene Nightingale’s fitness for Governor is highly suspect ????”

    Response – Only ” The Fool ” and the ultra corrupt rodents that he supports ” question ” Chelene. There are NO ” people all over ” attacking Chelene but there ARE ” people all over ” who totally support her.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  45. Don Grundmann

    ” Observation // May 19, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    Why is Don Grundmann ALWAYS talking about homosexuality?”

    Response – To stop molestors like you from attacking more children.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  46. Brian Holtz

    If we’re going to suffer from the trolling enabled by the anonymous-posting policy here on IPR, can we moderators at least pretend to follow it?

    Please do not reveal any information you might learn reading identity information about commenters.

    Just don’t.

  47. paulie

    I don’t out anyone, but I occasionally defend the falsely accused.

    And, if one person wants to create the impression that they have a lot of support by posting the same views under numerous names, I might say something, especially when it happens constantly.

    Generally, I do not reveal what I know about where people are posting from or their alter egos.

  48. Mark Seidenberg

    Cody Quirk,

    First it is good to find a website that you are currently on. Question: Was your Jewish Great
    Grandmother your mother’s material grandmother?

    Next, I have never posted under another name
    on any website.

    Next, Dr. Don Grundmann has not been a member of the American Independent Party state central committee since September 2, 2008. He has never been the Vice Chairman of
    the American Independent Party. However,
    he claim he was elected vice chairman at a
    convention in Los Angeles on three different dates in June, 2008, viz., June 6, 2008; June 27,
    2008; & June 28 – 29, 2008. That is the reason
    he is called THREE DATES DON.

    The reason Dr. Don Grundmann is not now on the AIP State Central Committee is because he was elected to the National Committee of the
    American Independent Party’s State Central
    Committee meeting election on September 3,
    2006 at the City of Rancho Cordova, Sacramento County, California, for a two year
    term.

    The California Election Code, Division 7, Part 4,
    Chapter 2, Article 1, Section 7561 states:
    “If a person is a delegate to the state convention
    and quilfied independently of that fact to be a
    delegate to the same state convention, he or she
    shall be a delegate by reason of the most recent
    election at which he or she became a delegate. The resulting vacancy shall be filled pursuant to
    section 7557.”

    Dr. Don Grundmann was a delegate to the AIP
    Convention at the Auditorium of the California
    Secretary of State Building in Sacramento, CA
    on July 5, 2008, because he was a member of the
    National Committee and elected as such on September 3, 2006 at the State Central Committee meeting in the City of Rancho Cordova, Sacramento County, California.

    This was the July 5, 2008 state convention that picked the ticket of Alan Keyes for President and Wiley Drake for Vice President. I was the elected chairman of that state convention.

    Don Grundmann is the source of disinformation.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  49. Patriot

    I have been doing some reading and Chelene Nightingale states she would NOT do anything Pres. Obama asked..(if she became governor of california) until SHE saw his birth certificate…
    Well how about this challenge…How about you Chelene Telling us about the bankruptcy filing..before we Vote for you? If you want to know about your leader…..we the people would like to know about this issue. It seems fair…She can address this…When you run for an office YOUR life does become an open book…Governor candidates Whitman Poizner and Borwn have all agreed to show 5 years worth of tax returns Will Chelene?

  50. Trent Hill

    “and it is not like other states have not disaffiliated (big bad Texas and some other jurisdiction ……)”

    Texas has not disaffiliated. You keep saying that, but they have not.

  51. Don Grundmann

    ” Patriot “/a.k.a. Mark Seidenberg : Mark – Why don’t you and Mark Robinson confess that you deliberately made fake documents and filed them with Secretary of State office in order to deceive that office regarding the true status of the AIP? As you say – ” we the people would like to know about this issue.” When you confess your criminality I will suggest to Chelene that she talk about her bankruptcy. Meanwhile we all know that deliberately filing fake documents with the SOS in order to commit Grand Theft Fraud, as was done by Mark Robinson ( the most corrupt Governor candidate in the history of the AIP if not the state or nation ), is far more serious ( and criminal ) than the common practice of filing for bankruptcy.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  52. Don Grundmann

    ” Texas has not disaffiliated. You keep saying that, but they have not..”

    Response – ” The Fool ” says a lot of things. All with the intelligence of a turnip.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  53. Trent Hill

    Brian,

    We have not revealed anyone’s identity, anonymity is maintained. But we’ll occasionally defend someone from false accusations of trolling, or out trollers (Thanks Paulie and wolfeman for straightening me out).

  54. Brian Holtz

    So when someone gets truthfully accused of anonymous trolling, your silence will convict them, no?

    If we’re going to allow anonymous/pseudonymous commenting, then we should treat the identity of such commenters like we would the identity of confidential sources for our stories. That means no confirmations or denials of accusations. The only exception I can think of is if someone wants to decloak and publicly claim their anonymous/pseudonymous comments.

  55. MORE .......... Lake

    Cody Quirk // May 19, 2010 at 7:47 pm
    “Lake, admit that you don’t post under one name- obviously shouting insults and changing the subject only proves your guilt ……….”

    as usual, you have no idea what you are typing about. Is your middle name REALLY ‘Making It Up As He Goes Along’ ??????????

  56. Trent Hill

    Lake,

    Nothing on that site, that I could find, says they’ve disaffiliated. There are, however, two groups of CP supporters in Texas.

  57. Cody Quirk

    First it is good to find a website that you are currently on. Question: Was your Jewish Great
    Grandmother your mother’s material grandmother?

    = I believe I already said YES. I have her blood in me.

  58. Thomas L. Knapp

    Tancredo is sort of like one of those legendary “self-hating Jews.” If Nightingale becomes governor, the next time Tancredo visits California, he’ll be forced to produce papers revealing what planet he’s from.

  59. paulie

    I updated the article with the text of the endorsement press release for those who have questions, it contains a direct quote from Tancredo.

  60. patriot

    Okay, don’t shoot the messenger BUT the “Southern Poverty Law center ) SPLC.com has a headline report today that speaks about Tancredo being at a racist rally in Arizona on June 5th where neo-nazi will be attending…also mentions that Chelene Nightingale is “an incurable racist” and that a William Ghreen pulled out of the rally because of this. Look it for yourself…Title “stung by Racsism Nativist leader pull out of rallys”…

  61. patriot

    William gheen of “alipac” pulling out of June 5, rally in arizona because former Colo. Congreeman Tom Tancredo is supporting an event in which racist skinhead and neo-nazi’s will be involved. Chelene Nightingale is attending this event. Now I ask, Why would Chelene Nightingale who is running for governor of ca go to this type of rally in arizona….Arizona has already passed the immigration bill…what could she possibly gain by this…unless she just has so much hatred for immigrants…This type of rally and press from this could only hurt her…But, the article says she is incurable racist…..This type of stuff is why I question..people who seek office.
    Why would a candidate of seriousness..actually attend this event? I know here come the defenders, personally…Nightingale has her own agenda and running for governor is just a side show.

  62. Davi Rodrigues

    the SPLC is a propaganda mill, and William Gheen is a self serving opportunist whose claims cannot be trusted.
    For all of Chelene’s negative traits, racism is not really one of them. She’s a fraud, a deadbeat, a manipulator, a liar, and a foolish ass of a woman, but she’s not a racist. I seriously doubt Tancredo is either.
    The SPLC is a tool of the leftist social media, and Morris Dees is little else than ambulance chasing lawyer that specializes in racial promotion injuries

  63. patriot

    davi why would nightingale even go to this event….how would it help her in CA….thats my point just for the attention?

  64. MORE .......... Lake

    paulie // May 20, 2010:
    Per Space Cadet Captain Cody Banks Quirk:
    “Under Rabbinical law, that makes you Jewish.”

    and in a Census year no less ……..

    ………. and all the world was counted,
    and, with Mary pregnant, they went to
    the city of David …………

    Since others are making this secular
    political blog into a de facto religious
    site: Jesus Christ was not born in the
    Roman Year Zero and possibly not
    in the Tenth Month (of December
    [‘Decimer’] ) and most probably not
    on mid winter solstice and /or
    Saturn’s Day near December 25th.

  65. patriot

    wow right now on cnn…report that Rand paul has stated “that business its okay to discrimate on who you hire” You can’t make this stuff up…CNN right now….this country is going apeS*it over race..its not a good thing….this is hateful stuff….

  66. patriot

    states what rand paul stands for is repulsive to mainstream america…wow thats a quote from a louisville paper…per cnn

  67. MORE .......... Lake

    Trent Hill // May 19, 2010:
    “Brian, We have not revealed anyone’s identity, anonymity is maintained. But we’ll occasionally defend someone from false accusations of trolling ……”

    Thx for standing up to habitual liars Donald Grundmann and Cody Banks Quirk, whom you like, against good guy Don Lake, whom you don’t! Oh ……….. never mind!

  68. Davi Rodrigues

    “davi why would nightingale even go to this event….how would it help her in CA….thats my point just for the attention”.

    Yes of course just for the attention. She needs it; thrives on it, and lives for it. The cheering crowds; the thrill of it all. It’s the equivilent to getting an academy award in her own narrow world. the way she sees it, she emerges fom these events as the sanctioned leader and prominent mouthpiece of all California citizens.

  69. spin, spin, spin, spin .......... Lake

    “just for the attention …………”

    and with a LOT LESS WORK than communicating with individuals and groups, building alliances, working out co-oporation, returning phone calls, ditto on email, shared statements, web postings, letters to the editor, other standard, ‘grunt work’ ……… \\

    [a] Again, a wide range of folks complained of her lack of work ethic as early as early summer

    [b] Again, I complained of her lack of profile in San Bernardino County

    [c] low profile[s] exist[s] to this day

    [d] tossed out of ‘Save Our State’

    [e] losing civil law suit

    we told ya so, we told ya so ……….

  70. Don Grundmann

    ” patriot “/a.k.a. Mark Seidenberg – Mark – Just write under your own name and stop this fool ” patriot ” stuff. You refuse to debate us ( the REAL AIP, the non-corruption faction of the party ) but you instead put out smears wherever you can such as this latest one that Chelene is a racist. How pathetic you are and how pathetic such a lie and smear is.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  71. Don Grundmann

    Mr. Rodrigues – I would have a lot more respect for you than the continually diminishing amount that I do have if you were not on your continual cry-baby revenge campaign against Chelene. The Chelene that I know is an extremely honorable woman who in fighting to save our nation is being viciously attacked by outright rodents and criminals of the lowest scum character who are desperate to smear her with any and all lies possible since she is a threat to the continuance of their criminality and criminal actions. Whatever she said about you I have no idea what it is and I doubt that very many people at all do. But whatever it may have been you are certainly busy giving far more credibility to it than it would normally get and/or may deserve by your continuous attacks as noted above in comment #86. The more you attack her character and make a federal case out her bankruptcy ( and especially to me downplay the outright criminality of Robinson and Seidenberg ) the less respect I have for your work of whatever degree it is and the more I think that whatever Chelene may have said that she must have been justified in saying it. If you let your work stand on its own I say that you will get more respect than attempting to air your personal grievance ( which no one knows what it is ) via character slanders against Chelene. If she is not perfect I know of at least 3 people; Robinson, Seidenberg, and Noonan; who can make her look like Mother Mary with themselves as outright demons relevant to the evil which they both have performed and are currently still in the process of performing.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  72. Don Grundmann

    : b] Again, I complained of her lack of profile in San Bernardino County
    [c] low profile[s] exist[s] to this day

    Response – And here again we have the nitwit ravings of ” The Fool ” 1) What ” profile ” does ” The Fool ” have? Just that countless people know that he is indeed ” The Fool.” 2) I am told that the endorsement of Chelene by Tom Tancredo has been mentioned in Forbes magazine. Certainly it has been mentioned throughout the state as Chelene was even before such endorsement. And yet ” The Fool,” stating ” low profile exists to this day,” makes yet another totally stupid, moronic, nitwit, assinine, blockhead, idiotic comment in his continuously growing string of such. I must though give credit to ” The Fool.” He does not ” rest on his laurels.” He takes his natural innate stupidity and diligently works each day to make himself the greatest ” Fool ” that he can be. You can’t get THAT stupid without a LOT of hard work.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  73. Davi Rodrigues

    Mr Grundmann,

    I’m not trying to earn your respect. You may not be interested in what I have to say, but others seem to be.
    And by the way; Chelene’s bankruptcy actually IS a federal case.

  74. Don Grundmann

    to ” The Fool ” – Now what endorsements have you gotten in your campaign?? Oh, that’s right. You don’t HAVE a campaign. In fact you could not be elected dog-catcher. But you WOULD be elected as the ” Town Dunce; something you ARE eminently qualified for. ”

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  75. renoza

    Chelene Nightingale for governor 2010 is considered a joke. She says on her rebel report…”if you don’t like what I say too bad don’t vote for me” well, I don’t like it and I won’t. She comes off as a bully ignorant person….with the attitude of a 10 year old. a shrew to be sure…..

  76. Cody Quirk

    Okay, don’t shoot the messenger BUT the “Southern Poverty Law center ) SPLC.com has a headline report today that speaks about Tancredo being at a racist rally in Arizona on June 5th where neo-nazi will be attending…also mentions that Chelene Nightingale is “an incurable racist” and that a William Ghreen pulled out of the rally because of this. Look it for yourself…Title “stung by Racsism Nativist leader pull out of rallys”…

    = No, basically you are now trying to smear Tancredo as you have been doing Nightingale, only somebody as petty as Seidenberg would do that.

    BTW, the SPLC is a Leftist propaganda mill, period.

  77. Mark Seidenberg

    TO: Don Lake.

    Jim King at his depo on Monday would not produce his affidavit. Kreep’s law office will
    go to the next step to get that affidavit that
    King did not produce via the court of Judge
    Wm C. Harrison in KING vs. ROBINSON.

    For others Don Grundmann has not been on the
    State Central Committee of the American Independent Party since September 2, 2008.

    TO: Don Lake

    I originally thought you were wrong in post # 89.
    but you are correct. According to Johannes Kepler in his “Tabulae Rudolphinae: quibus
    astronomicae scientide temporum longinquitate collapsae restauratio continetur”, published in
    1627. There is a year zero which is the same as
    BC 1 of the Julian Year.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  78. Sanity Clause and the Eastern Bunny ????????? .......... Lake

    “published in
    1627. There is a year zero which is the same as
    BC 1 of the Julian Year………….”

    (Does it even matter on a secular political site ????????) If theology / religion / spirituality is soooooooooo important, then isn’t it worth investigating a little ??????????

    That is how then entire Nightingale thing got to unravel. “High profile ??????” “Well Known ????????” “San Bernardino County ???????”

    Like fellow San Bernardino / Los Angeles bull shitter Jim King, pure smoke and mirrors, pure ‘bovine escretia’ ……….

    Is CHRIST mass and Eastern (sun rise) important ????? Well they are to me! Should they be followed religiously ??????????? No, nothing should!

  79. paulie

    Lake, keep with the sequence here.

    @ 54 Observation “Why is Don Grundmann ALWAYS talking about homosexuality?”

    @ 55 Paulie – Might have something to do with…(video: Pet Shop BoysAlways on My Mind).

    CQ@ 61 : “LOL , But Don (G) is a good guy”

  80. Don Grundmann

    ” Jim King at his depo on Monday would not produce his affidavit. Kreep’s law office will
    go to the next step to get that affidavit that
    King did not produce via the court of Judge
    Wm C. Harrison in KING vs. ROBINSON.”

    to ” The Fool ” – What your ” patriot ” hero did not mention is that his rodent lawyer didn’t even show up at said deposition. Just part of the continuing fakery and delay tactics by the ultra liars.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  81. Don Grundmann

    ” renoza “/ Mark Seidenberg – Another day and another fake name for the ultra corrupt liar Mark Seidenberg to write under. Unsurpassed corruption that keeps on lying and backstabbing the nation 24/7/365.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  82. renoza

    The retarded AIP constipation party whatever IS A NOTHING sick twisted party. As you can read from these A-holes….they are a bunch of dorks. I wouldn’t ever advocate voting for anyone in this assinine party EVER!!! what a bunch of losers!!

  83. Julius Ceasar and Ceasar Augustus ????????? .......... Lake

    oh, it is not up to the POSTER,
    (say Space Cadet Captain Cody
    Banks Quirk or Doctor Coo Coo)
    to ‘say what he means and mean
    what he says’ ………

    Don, (Lake, Knotts, Grundman) ?

    Cody is too lazy or incompetent
    to take a nano second to add a
    last name or even an initial ?

    And I am the bad guy ?

    This is the same Cody Quirk
    with a multi year reputation
    of unethical, sneakie behavior
    at TPW, BAN, and now IPR!

    Have you ever caught me in
    such behavior. Even you
    (and your attempts at fair
    ness make most of these
    posters look like federal
    felons …….) had to admit
    that appearances indicated
    that I had a reasonable case
    on Lib Steve King (P2008).

    Cody knew of anti CP decent
    out side of California’s AIP
    when he claimed ‘none’!

    Cody is an enthusiastic,
    immature ‘the cause justifies
    the action’ unethical zealot!

    He was in California, he
    remains so in Nevada!

    He is supposedly LDS
    whom not only does not
    act like a pious Christain,
    but claims anti LDS bias,
    FROM MORMONS!

    Keep with your ethics!

    Plz tell the world, (all
    right, IPR) when you
    have caught Don Lake
    being unethical,
    including and especially
    posting by lines.

    I ain’t perfect, and I
    no of no one who is,
    but I do not choose to
    deceive. My occasional
    senior moments, fat
    finger typos, and swap
    meet Romanian Spell
    Check do not compare
    with the on going sub
    rosa of Quirk and Don
    (Grundmann, Knotts,
    Lake ?????????)

    Again, as far as bi lines
    is Don Lake one of the
    good guys ???????

    You never phoned!
    I lay here with visions
    of ex Siberian patriots
    reaching out for me!

    Any way, if you need
    one of two Sandy Ego
    County [California]
    street mailing addies
    and no cost first class
    forwarding I can
    provide. If not, that is
    fine too ………

    I may occasionally
    mis type or remember
    the details wrongly,
    but I strive mightily
    to present

    [a] first hand knowledge

    and / or

    [b] multiple references

    Cody, as his cause is
    infinitely and ultimately
    just, will *yell* at the four
    horse men [Mark, Marklan,
    Ed (ward Noonan), Don (Lake) ]
    even when completely
    unnecessary. Spell his name
    correctly ????? Does not
    matter that the entire
    ether world can see the bull
    shit! He will, and has, *yelled*
    ‘spell my name right’ !

    Your comments ……….

  84. paulie

    I’m not sure what I was supposed to call you about?

    I have a snail mailing address, my parents house, trouble is I am not usually here for the vast majority of time, so I don’t actually get the snail mail until months later, if at all. Also, since none of my snail mail is generally very useful, it’s really not a big deal for me.

    I didn’t read all the way through your comment because the formatting gives me a headache when I try, and it’s really not worth it. If there was anything else in there that you think is important for me to address, please format it properly and post separately.

  85. Grab the barf bag ????????? .......... Lake

    renoza // May 21, 2010:
    “Nightingale for governor 2010 is considered a joke ……”

    and even her promoters get it wrong!

    http://www.borderfirereport.net/sher-zieve/chelene-nightingale-the-conservative-ca-gubernatorial-candidate-pick.php

    Hold ya nose! This gal is either ignorant
    or a lying conniving ‘true believer’! No
    reference on being criticized by potential
    allies from almost day one! No comment
    on being ‘let go from Save Our State’ or
    losing the civil law suit.

    Not one that she was not the automatic
    November AIP general election candidate
    Not one mention that she has a primary
    candidate and heavy heavy intra partisan
    opposition. Not one that there is no
    ‘California Constitution Party’ —– never
    has been!

    Again, ignorance or will full deceit ???????

  86. Don Grundmann

    to ” The Fool ” – 1) Chelene is the automatic candidate because Mark Robinson is an ultra corrupt liar whose only support comes from his fellow liars and total nitwits like you. 2) There is NO intra partisan opposition except, as mentioned in 1) above, liars and nitwits like you. 3) Another day and another string of incoherent babbling comments by ” The Fool ” interspersed with his standard moronic fart of staggering proportions.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  87. paulie

    Your screen names generally include “lake” or some version thereof, and/or “citizens for…” in the past. Your style is easy to recognize, in any case.

    As far as the brouhaha about bylines on articles, Trent and I already explained that, if that has anything to do with what you are talking about.

  88. Grab the barf bag ????????? .......... Lake

    Well what ’bout the dozens of anti Chelene comments in the blogosphere ?????????????

    http://www.minutemanus.com

    “In the case of Chelene Nightingale, a failed wannabe actress, the source of her angst against all other minuteman-like groups is that they take the spotlight away from her.

    She reminds me of a reckless parent who would abandon her own children if there was some notoriety in it for her.

    Both Gheen and Nightingale are the very reason why the minuteman movement and substantive immigration law enforcement progress has been lethargic and essentially ineffective with our political governors during the past two years.

    They are anathema to any respectable resolve to the illegal alien invasion of the United States and they will certainly go down in history as two of the several selfish, greedy ego maniacs who were instrumental in the failure of the altruistic intentions of the minuteman movement.

    Most unfortunately, the silly and infantile conduct of William Gheen/ALIPAC and Chelene Nightingale/SOS will probably continue until their instability results in nervous breakdowns and they are committed to a mental institution, or when the illegal alien invasion crisis becomes so massive that any further fight against it will be futile. Sadly, the latter is more probable.

    Jim Gilchrist,
    Founder and President,
    The Minuteman Project”

  89. Davi Rodrigues

    Jim,

    I take exception to two of your statements

    The first is that Chelene Nightingale is still associated with the management of SOS. She is not, and we’ve spent some time making that public.

    The second is your continuing reference to the effort of resisting the invasion as inevitably futile.

    I appreciate you work in the past, but I believe that you should be providing words of encouragement instead of spreading words of impending doom.

  90. CA Voter

    What amazes me is how Gilly The Clown can type while wearing that strait jacket! This is great, Gilly and Davi, two *urds throwing crap at one another while steeping in the same toilet together!! LOL Please keep it up, I love it!

  91. CA Voter

    Chelene Nightingale is an obnoxious, boorish bully!! She must better suited in the “livestock” area of the county fair!! moooooooo

  92. Grab the barf bag ????????? .......... Lake

    REgarding Davi Rodrigues / Jim Gilchrist:

    Lake: mea culpa, mea culpa!

    As some one whom knows that the California American Independent Party (as affiliated with the national Constitution Party) WAS dysfunctional from at least the 1990s I wanted to counter zealot wing nuts Grundmann and Quirk.

    These semi professional liars contend, falsely, that it is a small band of personal malcontents that are ‘smearing’ the near saintly Chelene Ward Nightingale.

    Ah contriare defenders of our culture! The biggest argument against Chelene is Chelene, and her former allies are now among the legions of detractors. (As you {October 2009} and Don Lake {July 2009} well know!)

    I, Don Lake, cut and pasted the Jim Gilchrist piece and either the blog did not have a date or I did not include it. Blame me (with whom you get along famously) not Jim Gilchrist (whom I can not stand —– personally, not politically!)

  93. Ca Voter

    Found a VERY interesting interview. You all must go to Plains radio network..the “california Rebel show” that chelene nightingale has on her website archive show….This show broadcast on the internet…The producer of the show a dubious character “Ed Hale” spoke on the Chelene Report toward the end of the interview..chelene was having with Bill Lussenheide…Ed Hale asks them both “Hey, do y’all know Ed Noonan??? (silence) Ed then says “I have him on the show alot he is a great guy!!” Lussenheide responds with “well, I am glad you like him” rofl ahhaha Chelenes producer of this show ED HALE loves ED NOONAN..Guess old Ed Hale is not privy to the internal fighting of the AIP…maybe ole Ed hale should be informed….Ed Noonan former chair of the AIP and anti-Chelene Nightingale and Bill Lussenheide….interesting stuff folks.Ed Noonan maybe you should speak with your friend Ed Hale about the shennanigans of CN and BL….

  94. Ca Voter

    ED HALE PLAINS RADIO NETWORK loves ED NOONAN!! its on the plans netword radio….go listen for yourself

  95. Cody Quirk

    Ca Voter is obviously another alias for you-know-who.

    So CA, why is it that Chelene is getting all these major endorsements and yet Markham hasn’t been getting anything?

  96. Ca Voter

    Cody, I am not making anything up…go listen for yourself…I was giving them the benefit of the doubt..btw I am not an alias of anyone….I looked up markham robinson…his twitter acct# says he has 24,000 followers…maybe he doesn’t use the internet as a devise…maybe he talks elsewhere….who knows

  97. Ca Voter

    I think the fact that he is the current Chairman of AIP would be enough to garner attention….

  98. Grab the barf bag ????????? .......... Lake

    well, you have to under stand what I did years ago. Cody is an emotional eleven year old, zealous in his beliefs and sloppy in his ethics.

    Basically the best ‘friend’ that the Democans and the Republicrats have, out side of complete coo coos like Doctor Donald J. Grundmann ……….

  99. Davi Pantload

    Look, as long as we keep the borders wide open like Jim and I want, we will continue to get boatloads of money from Americans who are stupid enough to think we are patriots. Let’s all ask Gilly EXACTLY how much of the money that he collected in the names of Ramos and Compean actually went to them or their families. And what has Aytollah Peckersmoker ever done for anyone but himself?

  100. Davi Rodrigues

    Well CA Voter, if an alias is what you prefer,
    We’ve been asking the same question of nightingale. How much was donated while she was “managing director”? Where did it go? She’s not talking about that either. Strange how there aren’t any records.

  101. Grab the barf bag ????????? .......... Lake

    Only Don Lake and Davi Rodrigues dislike the antics of Ms Nightingale and Company *sarcasm* —- oh wait, her are two more!

    “Kjl, I [Ayatollah Gondola] am fed up with the wackos on both sides siezing the stage on immigration matters in my country.

    I am sick to death of my hard work being twisted into someone else’s devious plan for personal gain.

    Some of these big mouths that have gravitated to the front line of the immigration debate are presuming to represent me, and my wishes.

    Further, the press then annoints some of them as spokesholes for the lot of us and that gets distributed through a vast network of generally read and all too often trusted as fact sources. Then, guess what happens?

    The same press then knock those representatives down with all of their own crazy statements, shady history, and doublespeaking idiotic answers to questions. Those people representing the movement are going to turn people away from the issue.

    Then, instead of enforcement reform, we’re going to get comprehensive reform that we all hate so much. I don’t want Gheen representing me, I don’t want Jeff Schwilk speaking for me, I don’t want John McCain representing me, nor do I want Jim Gilchrist representing me, and yes, I don’t want Chelene Nightingale representing me in this regard.

    Is it too much to ask that we find saner sounding, less ludicrous, and more responsive front persons to our representatives?

    Now that I can understand. But who would you want? And don’t say someone you know wouldn’t run or couldn’t run.”

  102. Don Grundmann

    ” ED HALE PLAINS RADIO NETWORK loves ED NOONAN!!”

    Response – Unfortunately Ed Hale is yet another fake in the patriot movement. He runs interference for, and is a shill for, the criminal gang of Alan Keyes. As with Noonan himself and his friends of Robinson and Seidenberg he chooses to betray the nation for his ” 30 pieces ” and is a willing agent of higher powers.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  103. bingo

    “Why is Don Grundmann ALWAYS talking about homosexuality?”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnzMHKtlMmk

    Neil:]
    In denial
    No, my life’s a trial
    I’m not denying that every little bit hurts
    It’s a problem, that I’m not solving
    Don’t mind admitting I feel like quitting this job
    For a while, Getting away before it gets any worse today

    [Kylie:]
    Your in denial, and that is final
    Your not admitting, you should be quitting
    All these queens and fairies, and muscle Mary’s
    The rough trade boyfriend, who in his pathetic own way denies he gay
    Why can’t he see this is a fantasy

    [Neil:]
    I think I’m going mad
    How’d you know if your going mad?

    [Kylie:]
    Look at me I’m lonely

    [Neil:]
    Look at me I’m sad
    I’m not denying, I could be trying, a little harder
    to deal with some of this stuff

    [Kylie:]
    Know what I’m thinking, less drugs and drinking
    No cigarettes, and you’ll feel a little less worth

    [Neil:]
    Is that enough? my life is absurd
    I’m living it upside down
    Like a vampire working at night, Sleeping all day
    A dad with a girl who knows he’s gay

    [Both:]
    Can you love me anyway?

  104. Davi Pantload

    No real answers, right? Fight questions with questions. Ayotoilet and Gilly so busy with their 69 thing they got no time for facts. Just keep pretending to be Minutia Men, little boys. We know you are about collecting money for being little tin soldiers pulling your little signs around until La Raza gives you a paying gig. BTW, what exactly does your wife do to support you, little Minutia man?

  105. Cody Quirk

    I think the fact that he is the current Chairman of AIP would be enough to garner attention….

    = Yet he isn’t picking up any major endorsements, and how many of his Twitter followers live in California? How many are AIP?

    Why is Chelene getting more publicity then him?

  106. Davi Rodrigues

    Chelene gets more publicity simply because that’s what her main goal is. Fame. But you’ll notice that her publicity is limited to media that basically preach to the choir, and that has, and is still relegated to a small stage. No one outside that knows anything about her, and that’s been her salvation thus far. The people within that demographic want to see her a certain way, so they will not accept anything other than that. Had she been in a larger spotlight, she would have had to defend all those things she’s been saying that aren’t true, and forced to defend her past.
    think of it it she wins the AIP ticket. She’ll have to be out there in front of the world with real reporters asking the hard questions.
    they’ll be asking about the recent bankruptcy
    They’ll be asking about what she did and didn’t put on her petition
    They’ll be asking about the vice presidency of a distribution company
    They’ll be asking her about SOS during her directorship. I could go on here, but you get the picture. And at that point, she’s going to be representing not only the best of the AIP, but also the best of the third parties. She’s not Ross perot; She’s Chelene Nightingale, and without a scripted speech and a pointed discussion, she’s on her own, and she won’t have the ability to just ban people who ask the wrong questions.
    And she’ll be your voice. For years people will link the AIP, and third party voters to her personna.
    If you think that’s a good thing, just wait ’till you hear her in the recording from her recent court case. I don’t know if I’ll get it uploaded before the primary or not, but for sure it will be after. In any case, you will hear it from her own mouth that she doesn’t have all the answers. You will hear it in her own words that she doesn’t keep track of her own debts, even after the BK. This is the woman some of you want to manage billions of dollars in debt and income. Someone who cannot remember if it was 2 or 3 payments she made on a loan of less than 7K.

  107. Don Grundmann

    ” Chelene gets more publicity simply because that’s what her main goal is.”

    Response – Mr. Rodrigues – As you continue to deteriorate due to your revenge campaign your commentary is beginning to inch close to that of ” The Fool.” ANY political campaign will seek publicity but your inane commentary of course claims that Chelene simply wants such publicity to glorify her own ego – just like you in your commentaries and revenge campaign. Your ego has been bruised so you seek to defend it by going on and on and on about the bankruptcy of Chelene and how bad it is. Yet again I reiterate that I do not ( and WHO does beyond you and Chelene? ) know how you were slighted and what was said about you. But you certainly are busy making yourself look continually worse by such inane commentary as above. I will take Chelene any day over a simple revenge seeker who magnifies a bankruptcy case but ignores actions such as her opponent deliberately filing false documents with the government. I will venture to say that Chelene will hold up far better under more concentrated and directed questions than you would. Of course the difference is that Chelene will answer regarding the topic(s) while you will/would answer by blaming everything on Chelene. I have seen Chelene speak on several occasions and she has not had a scripted speech ( yet another derogatory comment from you ) but I will take her unscripted commentary over your ever and ongoing pettiness any time. As I partially commented on before, and as is true as a general principle, your revenge campaign will never be satisfied. I predict that your piddling complaining will go on and on to the equivalent of when your elderly peers talk about their various physical ailments you will respond ” But did you know that Chelene Nightingale was in bankruptcy court?”

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  108. Davi Rodrigues

    Mr Grundmann,

    I’ve stated this before, but for the heard of comprehension, one more time:
    Bankruptcy is not a bad thing, nor should it be held against a person. Cheating and lying during your bankruptcy should be held against someone. Hypocrisy should also be held to answer. Chelene spews all of her 10th amendment cause, but went crawling to the feds for their protection during her BK. Apparently she thinks nobody but herself should be entitled to federal protection.
    And you may be right about the tenacity of my effort. I do tend to be persistent. I’ve also mentioned this before, but again won’t hurt: It’s not about her campaign. It’s about her damaging the movement and injecting her bizarre rantings into it as if she were the spokeshole for us all. So she should expect this to carry on for some years well after she slips from the public limelight

  109. Gina

    Well, after the huffington post about the CONSTITUTION PARTY….being anti-gay EXTREME right biblical in teaching I hope Chelene Nightingale for governor and Bill Lussenheide for congress ca-45 hold steadfast with their PARTY!!! STAND AND BE PROUD OF your “rebel” party….thats what you like to be seen as rebels??? Rebels for the world…..rebels for Freedom…..the “others” who view this party as extreme and non viable for a real world….should be banished as “not seeing the world through the true party the “constitution party” the party for FREEDOM…(unless of course you are gay…or you don’t want to follow biblical teachings to a T etc..)
    Well, stand proud with your rebel party….stand and shout it from the rooftops……good luck to you all….

  110. Bess truman

    Chelene Nightingale comes accross as a dolt. She is an uneducated snake in the grass…slithering along also, I heard from a person who donated money to her campaign and this person wonders what they are doing with all the Donation money? Running to arizona to harrass immigrants. This person also wonders why Chelene is hawking for for more DONATIONS right before the primary…when she knows she will lose…she needs to scamble to get some more money to pay her light bill or her taco bell bill no dount. Is this a smear…probably but I have listened to her SMEAR all kinds of people..listen to her assinine internet program on Plains radio…she smears everyone..this “christian woman!!” HA! This is no Christian…this is a bad person…a hateful bad person…

  111. bess truman

    AND she loves being a loose cannon!! She said as much…This is a very immature egotist…..

  112. Don Grundmann

    ” It’s about her damaging the movement ”

    Response – Mr. Rodrigues – As I mentioned you are inching ever closer to the territory of ” The Fool.” Chelene does not, and did not, have the ability to ” damage the movement.” Such an idea is preposterous. The movement to stop illegal immigration is stronger than ever. So get real. Your attack against Chelene is not to save the illegal immigration movement, nor can it, nor does it need to be ” saved;” especially by you and especially via an infantile campaign. This is about your personal revenge and nothing else. You write of posting a recording of her bankruptcy hearing on the Internet. Absolutely ludicrous and totally an act of revenge. Nothing more. Singing your country tune of ” She done me wrong ” is sounding more and more like Tiny Tim and ” Tiptoe through the tulips.” Good for ” entertainment ” value but zero and below on the substance, value, and meaning scales. Grow up and get over it.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  113. constitution party

    If the odd chance she ever made it to the Governor role she would be impeached immediately after the federal government examined her background. You can only lie for so long. There are federal requirements that leaders must meet. They must also pass Drug tests….

  114. Don Grundmann

    ” bess truman “/a.k.a. Mark Seidenberg – Mark – It is you that is the ” dolt.” And if anyone knows about being ” a snake in the grass ” it is you. How beyond pathetic of you to keep attacking Chelene with your nitwit comments and especially under your continuous parade of fake names. Just a open expression of how sick you are.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  115. Gloria

    Nut grundmann Is no one that can pass judgement on anyone. This man who is videotaped wearing a devil costume and an anti-gay sign should be locked up. He is a tax defier..(admitted himself) He is 60 years old never married no children yet he tried to run for a school board seat…why? that on its own merit would raise red flags. This guy is weird…I bet he is like this guy in a movie I just watched…”The lovely bones” the creepy neighbor…who lives alone…lights candles etc….watch out…

  116. Don Grundmann

    Just as Mark Seidenberg writes one moment as ” bess truman ” he comes right back as ” constitution party.” A psychotic sociopath out from under his rock.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  117. Gloria

    and I just read about the racist in the Constitution party….that party is now OUT in the media for what it is…a sick twisted racist Loonie tunes extrme group. Anti-gay agrees with segregation…believed in slavery….You are being exposed….and many people want to distance themselves from this party. Lets see how long rand paul..hangs around this crowd,,The CP is sick…bigoted party.

  118. Don Grundmann

    ” Gloria ” – You are obviously a sick rodent who does not care about the facts as follows – The Constitution Party is the only party that stands in opposition to the biggest racist organization in the history of the nation; one that has killed literally millions of citizens especially those who are non-white. That organization, as documented at blackgenocide.org, is Planned Parenthood. Of course you, as a rat rodent, no doubt support the racist and mass murder that Planned Parenthood practices and committs. But the Constitution Party stands in defense of non-white communities which have been attacked by the racist monsters, your friends, of Planned Parenthood. Truly it is you that are sick and bigoted.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  119. Davi Rodrigues

    Mr Grundmann,

    I am not speaking about posting a recording of Chelene’s bankruptcy hearing, but rather a court case she just had.
    I’ve stated all along that I am partially motivated by revenge, but not at all entirely so. So let me ask; Why do you think I’m not entitled? And how does my effort concerning Nightingale differ from yours with Mark and Markham? You seem to have been at it longer, use more derogatory terms in reference to them, and devote more time to addressing them.

  120. Don Grundmann

    Mr. Rodrigues – You are certainly ” entitled ” to all the revenge you wish to get. In my biased opinion the efforts of Davi Rodrigues will produce far more benefit for our nation via his actions against illegal immigration than his current apparently predominant focus of seeking revenge against a perceived enemy relative to a personal slight of unknown ( to others ) magnitude. At this moment I would recommend to anyone who mentions your name ( and none have ) that if they wish to achieve some constructive action to aid the nation that it would be better for them to check with you another time when you have finished your pity party. Our efforts differ because I am opposing criminal activity and my opponents have the backing of both foreign nations and domestic intelligence services; specifically the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center, both of which I consider to be representatives of what I refer to as the ” Plantation Masters ” of our nation; i.e.; those forces which truly control our nation and rule us. Robinson and Seidenberg are fronts for organized criminal activity that is a far greater threat to our nation than a singular isolated person such as Chelene Nightingale. Any so-called fraud by Chelene of any degree is matched and beaten by multiple orders of magnitude with the actions of Robinson and Seidenberg. It is like a size comparison between a banana and the moon. One is definately bigger but some will tell you that it is the banana.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  121. Don Grundmann

    ” to every one but Grundmann: it is the FRAUD with Chelene Ward Nightingale’s bank ruptcy that is of central focus.”

    Response – to ” The Fool ” – In the beginning you did not care about so-called ” fraud ” at all. You have simply been happy to accuse Chelene of the capital crime of filing for bankruptcy. It is the same today. You, as the dumb-s–t moron that you are, care only about slamming Chelene with ANY charge. So don’t hide behind this ” fraud ” crap.” You are happy to spread any lie against her for any reason. That is why you are ” The Fool.”

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  122. Amen, amen, amen ????????? .......... Lake

    [a] the fraud is not a lie, it is now a formal judgment and public record ……..

    [b] how ever, I am just one of a small, small group working against Chelene Ward Nightingale as we are just sooooooooooo jealous of her high morals and wonderful demeanor! THERE ARE NO OTHERS! (Oops!)

    [ OleCuss, OleCuss is offline, Member]

    [Join Date: Jun 2009
    Location: Kalifornia
    Posts: 467]

    Default
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by slamfire View Post

    [All I have to go on is whats on the internet.On youtube in a speech she gave she said that Larry from AIP asked her to run as candidate from their party I have no reason to doubt that.]

    [Response, (not Lake or the Three Horse Men): Actually, if you look at how Chelene presented herself on this forum, I think you should doubt anything she says which you have not verified ………]

  123. Davi Rodrigues

    So let me understand this Mr Grundmann,

    Foreign governments, the ADL, The SPLC, domestic intelligence, all are spending their funding on insuring that a party with miniscule membership doesn’t choose a know-nothing, never-was, insolvent, unemployed poser as their candidate instead of just promoting the historically proven, experienced, educated, financially sound ones’ of their own? You believe that Nightingale or the AIP is truly a credible enough threat to them that they would invest their time, money, and risk their clandestine network over this?

  124. Trent Hill Post author

    “instead of just promoting the historically proven, experienced, educated, financially sound ones’ of their own?”

    I understand you dislike Chelene, but I’d be careful about throwing your lot in with Seidenberg and Noonan–i’d hardly call them experienced, educated, and financially sound.

  125. Don Grundmann

    Mr. Rodrigues – A) As a short summary which will unfortunately most likely be over your head – The United States has been involved in virtually continuous war for many years and is viewed by some as the muscle to be used by other nations and organizations to enforce their desires upon the world. The Constitution Party is the 3rd largest in the nation and could be a respite for Republican voters who are fed up with the ” Big Tent ” compromising of their party leaders. As the Constitution Party believes in only going to war via the formal process of the Constitution such action could potentially compromise the usage of the United States military as enforcement muscle by foreign elements who have adequate control of our government to use the military for their own means. Such powers can send in their agents to effectively neutralize any possibility that the CP would be any different from the Republican Party; a process that has in fact has been intended to be accomplished by Alan Keyes and his gang of criminals who are agents of those forces. Some people have a much bigger understanding of a ” big picture ” than you do and also a far better understanding of the ability to do small things now which cripple their enemies mightily in the future. B) I will take ” a know-nothing, never-was, insolvent, unemployed poser ” who is a true fighter for the nation over a whiner like you any day of the week. Like the foolness of ” The Fool ” I am getting sick of your continuous silly crusade against Chelene. When we have ultra corrupt people like Robinson and Seidenberg as agents working to destroy the nation your pathetic whining about how you have been wronged by Chelene makes you totally useless in any potential defense of the nation. Evil advances upon the nation each day and while it does ” The Fool ” is ” The Fool ” and you are equally useless.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  126. Amen, amen, amen ????????? .......... Lake

    Trent Hill // May 25, 2010:

    “instead of just promoting the historically proven, experienced, educated, financially sound ones’ of their own?”

    “I understand you dislike Chelene, but I’d be careful about throwing your lot in with Seidenberg and Noonan–—– i’d hardly call them experienced, educated, and financially sound ……..”

    [Lake: I under stand that you have your own ax to grind, but I’d be adverse to taking your advise on pretty much any thing: the time of day, stock picks, and any thing with ethics ……]

  127. Don Grundmann

    to ” The Fool ” – Trent is making a solid and logical ( something you would never know or dream of ) point. It is pretty disgusting and sickening that YOU, of all people, attack Trent regarding ethics when you are busy spreading continous and outright lies regarding Chelene, Bill, and myself, and the CP 24/7. You are one of the last ( after your ” patriot ” rodent heroes of Seidenberg, Robinson, and Noonan ) people who should talk about ” ethics.”

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  128. Davi Rodrigues

    Mr Grundmann,

    Most of that actually went way under my head. I’m going to point out a few things in a minute, but first I’d like to address mr Trent Hill’s Comment.
    Mr Hill, I wasn’t referring to Mark or Markham when I was asking Mr Grundmann those questions. Not that they aren’t in that category per se, but that they also aren’t a credible threat to the big two at this point, so I didn’t include them in the scenario I was asking Mr Grundmann about. I meant the likes of Gerry Brown, Whitman, Poisner, etc. those are the candidates and their respective parties that would be reacting to any real threat by Chelene Nightingale’s candidacy. But as you both can see, they’re not showing any concern.
    I’d suggest that both of the big two, their cadidates, and interests that finance and influence them are pleased as punch to have a Nightingale on the AIP or Constitution party ticket. If there’s anything that would keep a voter from straying from the big two, it’s a far out, wild eyed, fool with a big mouth and just enough wit to draw attention to it all as their only other option. It’s my guess that the big two are both secretly promoting her.

  129. More like Fifth ????????? .......... Lake

    Don Grundmann // May 25, 2010 at 12:31 am
    ” The Constitution Party is the 3rd largest in the nation ………….”

    if you group the environmentalists and or the socialists together, more like seventh!

    Doctor Donald J. Grundmann is such a liar!

  130. -

    To mark Seidenberg:
    I found this webpage on Ron paul Forums: TITLE: HOW TO PREVENT NEOCONS FROM WINNING AND MAKE YOUR VOTE COUNT. (I have it copied and will send to you)

    it continues to say: If you would like to help the AIP keep the party from being hijacked please email Bill.Lussenheide@verizon.net To vote for only loyal AIP candidiates you must vote for Chelene Nightingale Go
    Jim King Lt. Gov
    Don grundman Senate
    Nathan Johnson controller…..It tells you to download the application (link which they provide) to change your affliation…says you must DO IT TODAY…it stresses how the AIP is being hijacked by neocons…..

    You can reach this site by typing Bill Lussenheide constitution party on about page 8…..title The June 8th primary and how to prevent Neocons from winning………

  131. Ca Voter

    Truly a desperate measure by some desperate losers. So afraid to lose they will Beg borrow or steal…..Chelene Nightingale Bill Lussenheide and the rest of these misfit…liars and criminals…should be ashamed to try and fool the people YOU the voters…to dupe you into their petty little game…You will never have anything to do with the AIP Noonan can’t stand you…robinson and seidenberg all have your numbers….Go start a constitution party in CA. The aip is not affliated anymore with the constitution party…so quit your cry baby antics. All your lies and background has been outed. Don grundman arrested for be a tax defier. Chelene Nightingale and her ties to racist groups the minutemen of sd….and her bankruptcy and foreclosure….Lussenheide a window washer with a criminal past from the 80’s…..(yes we have proof) all these horrible twisted people cons and scam artists….Go away…THE AIP does not want you….Go pull your garbage elsewhere.Leave the AIP alone. YOU ARE NOT WANTED….CAN YOU HEAR US NOW!!!!

  132. paulie

    This has probably been answered before, but if so, I’ve forgotten the answer: who will make the final determination on who the official AIP candidates will be on the November ballot — the voters in the primary, or the AIP convention?

  133. Don Grundmann

    paulie – The candidates for the AIP will be decided by the primary voters.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  134. Don Grundmann

    ” Ca Voter “/a.k.a. Mark Seidenberg – Another day and another sick screed by you writing under a fake name. Too cowardly to debate but you continue to put out endless lies against Bill, Chelene, and myself. What a pathetic coward you are!!

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  135. -

    What about the post on ron paul forum That wasn’t made up its there it was not written by seidenberg it has bill lussenheides name on it…quit lying grundam you say “everyone is smearing us” waa waa NO I have read and heard all those smearing the whole AIP and there are other people in the AIP You don’t own S*it! and you don’t run the AIP…time to go watch your little kids video’s…perv

  136. Don Grundmann

    ” – ” – Mark – It is so incredibly psychotic and cowardly of you to keep writing under fake names and now even NO name!! You are truly a sick sick sick guy.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  137. Aip is being hijacked

    Chelene Nightingale for governor Bill Lussenheide for congress ca-45 Don grundman (exmental patient) are all trying to steal the AIP. These people do not care about winning their elections. No, they wish to run dummies in the election because anyone that runs in an election can become part of the AIP committee….This little game of theirs is truly childish. THE AIP do not want these people in their party so they are trying hostile measures like this scam. VOTERS you deserve better than being used by these people..whose only goal is to try and hijack a politcal party. Americans I ask you not to buy into this scam…They are all criminals have records and will lie to the full extent even under penalty of perjury…(chelene Nightingale lied to the feds) documents are online….Patriots and voters I had a duty to inform you…thank you A memeber of the AIP and an american…

  138. Davi Rodrigues

    Hey, I have a question for anyone in the know:

    On the constitution party website about Nightingale, there’s a claim that she has a B/A from University of Washington. But during her interview with the Sacramento Bee there’s a reference to her only “attending the U of Wash. So does anyone with the Nightingale campaign care to set us straight here? Is she an attendee or graduate with a degree?

  139. ha ha

    davi…lol like we would really get a straight answer…her campaign manager also posted other lies…and actually used some of his credentials as hers…..The lies grow on and on…but, like you said….if she ever got the REAL media to pay attention they would chop her down to size…they think we outers of her fakery are bad…just wait….they will dig up all the dope on her. btw…does she have a drinking or “other” type of problem…on some videos..she sounds like she is slurring her words..

  140. ha ha

    of course it would be very easy to find out…media always investigates the candidates…I found some info on Lussenheide he only attended a Junior college…2 years….It would be easy to find about chelene lets contact washington u….

  141. Don Grundmann

    ” ha ha “/a.k.a. Mark Seidenberg – Bill may have attended ” only ” 2 years of junior College but he is far more successful than you, as a lying rodent are. He has formed 2!!! successful companies!! YOU have formed ZERO. And far more importantly Bill has fantastic integrity compared to you – a walking turd who is the scum of the earth.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  142. And on the West Coast ????????? .......... Lake

    “ha ha” so you also have view the play / (Richard Burton) film ‘Equus’ ????????

    on a more serious note, I just hope the average person, and more over, the regular primary voter sees that Chelene Ward Nightergale that my *personal experience* AGAIN is being verified!

    I have attempted to work with ‘Save Our State’ (now under new management) since early 2009. I have tried to link with ‘San Bernardino County’ Nightingale since mid 2009. Lots of nothing. She just does not pass the smell test —– repeatedly!

  143. And on the West Coast ????????? .......... Lake

    And on the West Coast ????????? ………. Lake // May 25, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    “ha ha” so you also have view the play / (Richard Burton) film ‘Equus’ ????????

    And some of the dysinformation, misinformation being thrown around is so indirect. Like the references on TPW, BAN, and IPR!

    This is where the poster, knowing better, places a ultra conservative, theogratic, or libertarian based ‘reform’ or similar remark with out mentioning the party.

    It would then seem that the entire site was a de facto conservative, theological, or lib site. Not cricket. Not ethical. And the bad guys, say Cody Quirk, know it (is sneakie, snarkie, unethical) while it is happening.

    Also when some one else’s original comment is not attributed to an out side individual or group, then it is customary and logical that the original comment is an official policy of the secondary organization (TPW, BAN, IPE).

  144. Don Grundmann

    ” Chelene Ward Nightingale, how many children and why does she not know the answer ?

    Response – to ” The Fool ” – You have complained about Cody supposedly smearing your mother but, as demonstrated so well by the above comment, you are smearing and degrading your mother far better than Cody or anyone else could or would ever do. What mother could do anything but hang her head in total shame in seeing her son attack Chelene as you do? What a total disgrace you are!!! If your family name ever had any honor and/or if your mother did you are doing everything that you can to drag her and the family name through the mud and to total disgrace by your own actions. It is you who attack your own family name and especially the memory of your own mother by doing the atrocious, outrageous, revolting, and disgusting actions that you do. I feel sorry for your mother. I am sure that she did not raise her son to be such a disgusting revolting rat as you continually are busy proving yourself to be.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  145. Don Grundmann

    To readers of this thread – Comment #179 above is, yet again, Mark Seidenberg writing under a fake name. His personal corruption is documented at TheCorruptionOfAlanKeyes.blogspot.com.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  146. And on the West Coast ????????? .......... Lake

    At least my mother knew how many births she had participated in and how many of her birth children were alive! Noticed that you and Mister Quirk are not concerned with the wide variety on such a basic and simple question from highly criticized primary candidate Chelene Ward Nightingale.

    And your Nevada buddy Space Cadet Captain Cody Banks Quirk, unnecessarily dissing my long dead maternal parent; lying about ‘California Constitution Party’ (a non entity); and knowing lying about unhappy CP organizations out side of California and Texas.

    Plz Doctor, plz, plz, plz join with the Quirk Boy on giving the rest of us long obnoxious lectures on ethics and morality. Great for a laugh!

  147. Aip being hijacked

    Post 189 is a man posing as Don grundmann yet another fake posing as Don G.

  148. aip being hijacked

    Dear readers any posting under Don Grundmann is really…A fake poser..who wishes to discredit the aip..the real leaders Markham Robinson running for governor 2010 CA mark Seidenberg Vice chairman AIP fine people…please disregard any postings by don grundmann….

  149. Don Grundmann

    to ” The Fool ” – You know nothing about ethics or, especially, morality so I won’t waste my time. You are just a stinking revolting lying rat. You and your fellow rats will be defeated here and in the life to come. The evil you love and represent will be defeated. You will all richly deserve your eternal reward in Hell. You happily disgrace your mother and your family name.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  150. And on the West Coast ????????? .......... Lake

    aip being hijacked // May 25, 2010:
    “……. the aip …….. the real leaders Markham Robinson running for governor 2010 CA mark Seidenberg Vice chairman AIP fine people ….…”

    [Lake: I can not 100% verify the ‘hijacked’ statement. I can say that I have not seen unethical and discredited behavior. I do not yet see Cody Quirk or Don Grundmann in Mark and Mark ………]

    [I am a former supporter of Quirk and Grundmann —– since 2004. But I saw a lot of Quirk in Grundmann and a lot of Grundmann and Quirk.]

    [ I kept on waiting for them to ‘man up’ but they just got more and more immature and deceitful!]

  151. Don Grundmann

    ” fine people ”

    Response – Your endorsement of ultra corrupt outright traitors to the nation tells everything needed to know of your own total corruption and exactly why you are ” The Fool.”

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  152. Cody Quirk

    Noonan is a Apostate that shouldn’t hold a Temple Recommend for what he has done to the AIP.

    Its really petty, all these comments under false names here; the Seidenberg/Robinson crowd are so spiteful and irrational, its no wonder why Tancredo and Griffin chose Nightingale over Robinson!

  153. Mark Seidenberg

    Cody Quirk

    First, what does the LDS Church have to do with
    the AIP? Ed Noonan is on the National Committee of the AIP. Why is being on the National Committee a reason for not holding
    a Temple Recommend?

    Second, since you are Jewish in the view of the
    State of Israel, you can take advantage of the Law of Return. BYU has a great program in Jerusalem. With your background I believe
    the LDS could use you in Israel.

    My tribe is Levi and half-tribe is Kohen. Cody do
    you know your tribe?

    You state that Noonan is an Apostate. That is
    news to me. When did Noonan become an
    Apostate and how?

    You state that I am “spiteful and irrational”. Does this having anything to do with the fact
    that Dr. Don J. Grundmann will not be let into
    the 2010 convention of the AIP? If so, you are
    just wrong. Don Grundmann termed out at Mid-night on September 2 – 3, 2008 as a National Committeeman of the AIP. His status as a “Nominee Delegate” ended on September 3, 2006 after being elected a National Committeeman for a two year term.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman,
    American Independent Party

  154. -

    Tancredo who will be at a rally in arizona on june 5th with neo nazi’s (look up the article) and griffin a conspiracy wack…..thats why they support CN because thats all she can get NUTS!!

  155. -

    No sane person would back this woman. She is not qualified to run…she is a scam artist wishing to illict money from unsuspecting dopes…
    disgrace!

  156. Don Grundmann

    Mark SeidenRat – Since you put your name on your writing in comment #201 why can’t you do the same to your writings in #202 and #203? Answer – Because they openly reveal what a lying psychotic coward you are and so you hide behind a pathetic ” – .” Too cowardly to debate you keep on writing your insane screeds under all of your different fakes names and even non-names. You simply expose your character sickness and what a pathetic creep you are by playing such silly games.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  157. Davi Rodrigues

    A response when researching Chelene’s claim that she was vice president of Mustang Films

    On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Davi Rodrigues wrote:

    Hello,

    I am from Public Document Distributors.

    I would like to ask if you can confirm a claim that Chelene Nightingale, a candidate for governor of California, makes on her interview with the Sacramento Bee,

    The claim is made that she was Vice President of Mustang Films.

    “Education: Home courses, workshops and classes on issues ranging from real estate investing to public speaking. Attended University of Washington.
    Experience: Managing director for http://www.saveourstate.org; campaign manager for 2006 Libertarian gubernatorial candidate Art Olivier; vice president, Mustang Films; production coordinator; stage director. ”

    Read more: http://www.thevoterguide.org/v/sacbee/index.do?i=2#ixzz0ozA9NDhH

    Ms Nightingale may have used Chelene Ward, or Chelene Harris, her previous married name or maiden name.

    If you are able to confirm this, or are have any information in regards to this claim, please respond to this e-mail or at the contact information listed below:

    Sincerely,

    Davi Rodrigues

    Public Document Distributors
    PO Box 160965
    Sacramento, CA 95816-0965

    Hello Davi:

    I am the owner of Mustang Films, and I’ve never employed Chelene Nightingale. However, I must add that Mustang Films is a Hungarian film production company and I doubt she is referring to this one. I am sure there are several other Mustang Films companies worldwide.

    Best,

    steven

    http://www.mustangfilms.com/index.php?target=submenu&submenu_id=17&menu_id=

    OK, so Mustang Films does operate in Hollywood if you go to the above link from their website. I’m wondering if the candidate can shed some light upon this for the official record?

    “Steven Lovy is a native of Hollywood, California. A writer/director graduate of the prestigious UCLA Film and Television department in Los Angeles, California, he divides his time between his homes in Manhattan Beach, California and Budapest, Hungary.”

  158. Gilchrist rules, chelene slobs and drools

    She probably ment the porno films mustang films the presedents name was Mr Ed and she did videos sucking his balls and gettin covered in horse cum lol

  159. Gilchrist rules, chelene slobs and drools

    And before that bitch grundman talks shit i’m not that jew bitch seidenberg…fuck em both…deport all mexicans and gas all jews kthx

  160. Don Grundmann

    To the moderator – Please note that while Chelene Nightingale has been viciously attacked on many threads of this forum the above attack ( comment #206 ), by I believe yet again Mark Seidenberg, is totally beyond any decency and must be removed immediately.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  161. Don Lake

    early on, Save Our State (now UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT!) just did not pass the smell test. Thank good ness she was ‘shown the door’ ………..

  162. Don Grundmann

    to ” The Fool ” – Did you post #206?

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  163. Gilchrist rules, chelene slobs and drools

    Fuck you bitch, I told you I am not that bitch ass jew fuck seidenberg, WHITE POWER! chelene is a stupid cunt mexican donkey show whore kthx

    WHITE ARYAN SKINHEAD

  164. _

    There is a white skinhead poster also, posting outrageous posts on the rand paul site Mostly about white power…Mark would type such filth…maybe someone wrote this so that Don G. could say ban seidenberg….thats not right….despites the fighting on this site.,..I will be the first to say..that the last few posts are horrible…and no one should be talked about like that….

  165. _

    would not write* I repeat I don’t know mark but it does not fit his character….
    also, despite the punting back and forth I would like to say That Chelene Nightingale does not deserve to be talked about like that…..I sincerely mean this….and we should all keep things civil….peace

  166. _

    I would like to apologize now…and say may the best man win….I am not mark…I have an iron in the fire…but, we are all human…and I don’t wish to keep this banter up. so I apoligize and again please don’t blame mark seidenberg….___ is my post…not marks…enough is enough….

  167. _

    Btw, Looks like the “Trough Feed” banquet raided the nearby nursing home for “alzheimers” patients, to fill seats. I mean seriously, isn’t there something illegal about promising old people food in trade for their vote? shame on you!

  168. markie mark

    Why is Chelene nightingale for governor’s CAMPAIGN Donations filed with the ca sec. of state listed as this ‘LEGAL DEFENSE FUND?” Maybe because she wants to use the money to pay off her lawsuit that was filed against her for non payment of a loan? PEOPLE Stop giving your hard earned money to a fraud thats using the money to live on and to pay her own debts!!!

  169. Good luck and lessons from history ----- on the current corrupt system .... Lake

    _ // Aug 19, 2010:
    “……… isn’t there something illegal about promising old people food in trade for their vote ………..”

    Lake: Hey, hey, hey, this is the same campaign that publicly and illegally urged non AIP folks to temporarily [and unlawfully] change their non AIP registration to AIP, vote Nightmare Nightingale on June 8th, 2010, and then slink back to their base party.

    Lake: So how come political tramps like Don Grundmann and Bill Lussenheide still sing the praises of ‘California Constitution Party’ Chelene Ward Nightingale? Like Cody ‘Where is the over grown scamp?’ Quirk, they are true believers, unpreturbed by the facts!

  170. Don Grundmann

    Lake – I had not seen your lies continuing against Chelene so I thought that you may have finally reformed. No – you are the same damn liar you have always been. People change their registration all the time. Nothing illegal about it except when a liar like you uses it to smear Chelene for nothing and trying to make it seem illegal.

    ” “……… isn’t there something illegal about promising old people food in trade for their vote ………..””

    Never happened but what difference does that make to a liar like you? None. You lie today just like you lie every day. You don’t give a damn about facts. You continually manufacture new lies based on nothing. Truly you are below the bottom of the barrel – the scum of humanity.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  171. FenderC

    If you want to talk about Nightingale being an activist or organizer and down her for that, look who is the PofUS. Real Californians are going to threaten the status quo that’s been driving this state into the ground. The corporate VPs, state reps who are on the take, illegals, etc. better learn who Nightingale is if they are saying “Who?” when they hear her name. If she loses, and it’s possible this time around, the people will find more just like her to fill in over time. The free ride is over.

  172. We the people

    btw Cn didn’t even win her own city..Palmdale wtf? She didn’t win orange County and she didn’t win FRESNO. She only got 1500 votes in fresno. so give it up, btw She is not a lawyer she has no College egress and YES people look at that. She speaks as a loose cannon. AND it shows. It makes her look ignorant. Her level od comprehension, goes to “Conspiracy theories. She is not educated, she memorizes crap. Thats the truth the truth hurts DEAL: with it…

  173. Don Grundmann

    ” We the people ” – So we have Mark Seidenberg; Republican Party mole and agent of the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center and whose personal corruption is documented at TheCorruptionOfAlanKeyes.blogspot.com; continuing to attack Chelene under fake names, a practice which he has now done for months. Mark – Chelene beat Mark Robinson, your friend in corruption and the most corrupt candidate for Governor in the history of the state if not the nation. Even ignoring the thousands of votes and many endorsements after that her victory over the Robinson criminal enterprise, including you, was a wonderful victory over evil. And speaking of victory your attacks against Chelene did not save your patron Meg Whitman from defeat. Your pathetic attacks against Chelene failed to aid Whitman.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  174. I am not mark

    All this false pride still spells you lose…wasting time and energy and others money for what? For nothing, you won nothing except negative publicity. But, I think all you turd parties know you can’t really compete, so you wallow with the fringers (big fish small pond?) perhaps, but you haven’t changed one damn thing in politcs or government. All the tea partiers didn’t gain one thing, except point to the weirdo’s that were nominated and lost. If you back non viable wacks, you still get bad candidates. Third parties, can’t run with the big boys they just toil at the bottom with the bottom feeders, the dysfunctionals, the anti-establishment misfits. You make no difference in the real world you are just flies swarming around till someone swats you. And you were are swatted! I am mean I know, I just think of all the poor people that gave their last $10.00 so you all could eat out, buy new computers fill up the gas tank, for what? hey, its a free country and if people want to throw money at unviable crooks have at it. I personally want to see a difference. So I am glad Jerry brown won. he represents CA! if you don’t like democrats then leave. We don’t need you here. You third party people should move to Montana or somewhere , with other like minded, because CA will always lean liberal and dats the name of dat tune. I am not mark 🙂

  175. paulie

    Not Mark,

    Actually, third parties have spurred many – quite possibly most – of the changes the big parties eventually made law. Without third parties pushing those ideas to begin with and putting some electoral pressure on bigger parties, we’d be living in a very different world today.

    Very rarely, third parties become big parties. When the Republican Party started the big parties were the Democrats and Whigs. The Democrats were fractured and the Whigs collapsed. No telling when or if that may happen again.

    No telling how California will “always” lean (or any other state). Why did the elect Reagan, Nixon, Schwarzenegger, Pete Wilson, Deukmejian, etc? Some may have once said the South would always be Democratic. Now, not so much. Things change…sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.

  176. not mark

    Well, having lived here all my life 50’s forward, the demographics of CA have changed, since the days of reagan wilson etc..and not just illgeal immihration. The Hispanic community “Legal” have made large contributions (not only in numbers) Far beyond the “mexifornia” (which I resent the name, its clearly racist) California has always been a melting pot. Always been pretty liberal. If you notice the winning area for Brown, it was clearly the northern coastal areas and Los Angeles. The democratic registration, is far and beyond any other. Third parties that run unviable, religious themed candidates will always be out numbered here in CA. When I see people become so incensed at democrats, I always suggest they move out. Because clearly CA is going to be gaining more democratic voters in the future. For me its not a bad thing. Being a small minority (third parties) does not justify them to call democrats socialist and make up cronspiracy fear mongering rhetoric. It just makes that party (teaparty et al) seem further and further drifting off to a make believe world, they long to go back to. CA has changed some for the better some for the worse, but creating fear and division is not the answer. Any party not wanting to appear fringe must attract all people, other wise be delegated to small fish in big pond.

  177. paulie

    Actually, what is or is not considered liberal can itself change. It has in the past, and can again.

    The parties can realign – for example, before the 1930s, the Democrats were rhetorically the party of smaller government when it came to economic issues as opposed to the Republicans.

    Also, before the 1930s, the overwhelming majority of African-Americans supported the Republican Party while most white Southerners supported the Democrats for quite a while after that.

    The very term liberal meant someone who supports smaller government for most of its history.

    So, demographic and party coalitions and ideologies can certainly change as well.

  178. joazinha

    Earlier this month, it was reported that the Southern California Patriots Coalition asked Chelene Nightingale to be their director. Considering.her penchant for lies and manipulation, it may be more likely that Nightingale appointed herself director or weasled her way into it. Sure hope the coalition finds out who Nightingale really is before she utterly destroys them like she did SOS (Save Our State)

  179. Don Grundmann

    Well people should know that ” joazinha ” is Mark Seidenberg; an agent of the Anti-Defamation League ( ADL ) and the Southern Poverty Law Center ( SPLC ), 2 organizations that are enemies of our nation and all that it stands for. Why is he, a master of lies and manipulation, attacking Chelene Nightingale almost 2 months after the election? Because the ADL and the SPLC are dedicated to destroying the patriot and conservative movements in our nation. Hence since he has already been lying about Chelene everywhere possible even before the election it is logical that he continue that attack, lying continuously under multiple fake names, since the ADL/SPLC objective of destroying the nation still has a lot of work required for its fulfillment. Especially since no one is going to believe his current lie against Chelene. The patriot organizations recognized Chelene for the fighting patriot that she is. They also already know Mark Seidenberg for the ultra lying cowardly traitor that he is.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  180. Don Grundmann

    Lake – What patriot organization would appoint YOU for anything? Answer – zero. None. No true patriot would be fool enough to associate with a lying rat like you for anything. I notice that you have yet to apologize to Chelene for the endless lies which you have told about her.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  181. Opeach Obama, I mean, is this the best we can do? [Lake]

    [Lake: Legal Fund, Hmmmmmmmmmmmm]

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  182. Don Grundmann

    Lake – You accused her of being convicted of fraud. AN OUTRIGHT LIE. You accused her of having ” pay to play;” requiring people to pay her in order to talk to her. AN OUTRIGHT LIE. You so sickly and outrageously accused her of not knowing how many children she had. AN OUTRIGHT LIE. Those are only 3 of many other OUTRIGHT LIES. And YOU, of all people, accuse her of being a fake. SHE has done more to fight for the people of the state and nation than YOU ever have! She is recognized by true patriots and those fighting to save our nation as a leader. YOU are recognized, by your own actions, as a lying psychotic scumbag rodent. Anyone shaking your hand will have to wash the slime off and to follow the travelers advice for shaking hands – don’t shake the left hand. With you it applies to both and for the same reason.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  183. Dr. Medical Help

    These rantings clearly are those of a person in need of psychiatric help. The extent of the vitriol, should be warranted. Let the people on the site be advised, these rantings of the above are not normal.

  184. Don Grundmann

    ” Dr. Medical Help “/Mark Seidenberg : Mark – I am simply exposing what a liar and coward Don Lake is although you certainly beat him on both counts. What is ” not normal ” is your continually writing under fake names. I have never done so. You, in contrast, write under a fake name more than 99% of the time. For a human being ( giving you credit for possibly being one ) to lie continuously day after day after day as you do that is most definately ” not normal;” i.e.; it is not normal to be a pathological liar such as you are.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  185. Observer

    Maybe Don has sought treatment for his psychiatric issues. I’ve never seen him comment so long on a thread and not bring up his favorite subject, homosexuals.

  186. Don Grundmann

    You see Lake, you and Seidenberg ( ” observer ” ) are natural friends as you are both cowards and traitors. You know nothing about health but, as the idiot nitwit fool that you are will complain to the state board about me for whatever reasons you ” make up as you go along ” – the phrase you use to accuse Cody but which you continually do yourself; i.e.; you, like Mark, are a never ending liar. As I said you could work to get that $300,000 but you are too lazy and stupid to do so. And then you have the nerve to, as with the traitor Seidenberg, continually lie about Chelene who is a true American patriot that you and your rat friend can never be. What a pathetic fake human you are. Truly at the bottom of the barrel.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

  187. Not mark, Truth Teller

    Don Grundmann seek HELP. You are truly disturbed apparent by your rantings and paranoia that anyone one posting the truth about you Nightingale and other lunatics is mark seidenberg. I hope he sues your arse for slander you are sick and anyone wishing to see how unstable this wack is google Don grundmann and see a youtube video of this nut wearing a devil costume ranting about gays. Seriously folks I think grundmann should be reported to mental health authorities, he has threaten amny of us online. Let me be the first to document this for future reference.

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