California Libertarian Convention Day 1

The Libertarian Party of California convened today in Visalia.

09:15 Came to order with 44 delegates. Kevin Duewel elected Secretary Pro Tem.

09:45 Chair’s report by Kevin Takenaga. Registered Libertarians count is up, surpassing Greens for the first time since c. 1990. Highlighted elected officials and a new College Libertarians group, which held its first convention here yesterday.

10:00 N. Vice Chair’s report by Gale Morgan. Yolo and Madison Placer county affiliates activated. San Mateo county endorsed Doug Radtke for City Council, and has been energized by new Secretary Kevin Duewel. We had 98000 Reglibs in Aug 2013. Set a goal for increase, it’s already been surpassed.

10:11 Treasurer’s report by Brian Darby. $12K operating loss was due to a large donor re-targeting donations to the county level. Switching from DonorPerfect to Neon will cut labor costs from $20K in 2013 to $4500 in 2014. 793 members currently. Cutting convention budget (i.e. floor fees, and thus cutting convention profit from $7000 to $700) did not appreciably increase attendance.

10:20 LNC Representative’s report by Dan Wiener. LNC is purchasing an $825K office ($300K down-payment) to replace Watergate rental office. Will save about $5K/month in cash flow. National convention is in June in Columbus Ohio. LP candidate for VA governor (Sarvis) got 6%. LNC social media outreach is active. Hired Wes Benedict as Executive Director, moved Carla Howell to Political Director.

10:40 College Libertarians founder Antoine Hage spoke. Created 3 campus clubs in 3 months. Focus on local elections.

10:47 Gale Morgan, Treasurer of Candidate Support Committee. Spent $25K fighting Top Two. Donated to several campaigns. Balance is $15K.

10:50 Officer Q&A. Jose Castenada asked about the lack of state-level candidates. Takenaga answered: Top Two. 10,000 signatures needed to waive filing fee, and doesn’t guarantee spot on November ballot. Gale Morgan: RegLib count is high enough that we no longer need 2% in the gubernatorial election.

11:00 Brian Darby: 2012 convention earned $7K profit. 2013 had lower floor fees, earned $700 profit, but no increased attendance. Starchild asked for more spending details.

11:05 Mark Hinkle: we had 3992 members in 1992, but 793 now. Takenaga: RegLibs matter more than paying memberships. LPUS and LPCA used to have joint membership. Hinkle: “you guys are failing”.

11:10 Aaron Starr: Membership revenues discrepency. Brian Darby: page-1 figures are net, combining income and expense. Roughly $6K revenue shared to counties, not shown in data.

11:14 Takenaga explains Coffee Club donor program, says it hasn’t been pushed and has probably gone down.

11:15 Brian Darby: would need a Bylaws change to allow teleconference meetings.

11:18 Q&A extended 10 minutes. Matt Barnes asked what members can do to help. Antoine Hage asked for help for College Libertarians. Darby and Morgan emphasized local politics. Wiener: recruit from new RegLibs.

11:26 Castenada asked about Candidate Support Committee. Morgan: guidelines are: candidate has to be on ballot, endorsed by county, and have a web site.

11:28 Morgan: county chairs association has been meeting by Google hangout.

11:30 Morgan began the Platform report with Proposal 1 to rewrite IV-5 Immigration & Citizenship. Aaron Starr moved to strike 3rd paragraph about “sovereignty of California”. Amendment failed narrowly. Proposal failed 25 for, 14 against.

12:00 Lunch.

2:15 Democracy.com: amy@democracy.com promoted free campaign websites for candidates.

2:20 Libertarian city council members: John Inks of Mountain View, Susan Marie Weber of Palm Desert, Jeffrey Hewitt of Calimesa.

Weber: Everything you do is a chance to promote libertarianism. I’m a tax accountant who tells people that taxation is theft.

Hewitt: I’ve had more libertarian impact as appointed planning commissioner than as elected city councilman, so volunteer for local boards. Libertarians are the mainstream. I’d like to sell legalized drugs and prostitution, but we need to prioritize the freedom to prosper. Told a Tea Party crowd he favored marijuana legalization, and realized he was a libertarian. Got LP donations in his city council race. Planning to bring other candidates into the LP. Once we get one Libertarian in the legislature, then the landslide will begin.

Inks: 5 of 7 current city councilmen in Mountain View did not win first council race. Built resume as commissioner. Staff and colleagues respect my principles. Declined to join Mayors Against Guns, so opponents organized a march against him. Termed out, trying to recruit a replacement.

3:15 Panel of Libertarian water board members Jonathan Hall (Tehachapi Cummings), Jim Hoerricks (West Valley), and Brian Holtz (Purissima Hills). Discussed water supply issues, pricing, and tragedy of the commons from well over-use.

4:00 Platform Proposal 2 to replace IV-1 IV-7 IV-9 and V-8 with a new consolidated IV-1 “Criminal & Civil Laws” plank. Starr moves to not delete IV-9 “Sovereign Immunity”. Votes against his own motion after receiving a clarification, but his motion passes anyway. Amended proposal failed 19 for, 14 against.

4:24 Proposal 3 to replace 11,13 and 14 of IV with a consolidated sub-plank after IV-16 titled “Family, Marriage, and Reproductive Rights”. Starr moved to divide the question, to delete the 3 planks first (by majority vote) before adding the consolidated new plank (by 2/3 vote). Starr’s motion failed, after criticism that it was an attempt to hold the platform hostage. The proposal failed 21 for, 13 against.

4:40 Proposal 4 to delete opposition to laws setting drinking ages and curfews. Starr moves to adjourn because there is not a 2/3 sentiment for approving any platform changes. Motion carries, adjourned at 4:50.

The first 3 platform proposals were major consolidations of multiple planks, but the PlatCom handouts did not include the language being replaced. The full copies of the Platform in the delegate handout did not include plank numbers or section headers, so it was hard for delegates to understand what each proposal was deleting. This may have contributed to the failure of all the proposed platform changes.

Tomorrow: officer elections and Bylaws debate.

2014-03-30 update: Brian Darby’s budget handouts:

LPCAbudget1

LPCAbudget2

52 thoughts on “California Libertarian Convention Day 1

  1. Starchild

    Nice reporting, Brian. Glad to see someone covering this on IPR. Although it’s pathetic that we only have 44 delegates present at the state convention for a state the size of California. It reflects, in my opinion, how badly dysfunctional party leadership has been in this state.

    Of course having a floor fee of $99 (early bird registration) to $130 just to participate in the business sessions doesn’t help (as far as attendance).

  2. Starchild

    Good news from today is we beat back a number of proposals from the Platform Committee that would have deleted a bunch of good language from the California LP Platform. Unlike the national LP Platform, the LPC’s was never gutted and is still strong and detailed. I haven’t heard any overt talk about wanting to water down the Platform this year, but removing a bunch of detail and leaving only broad (if still strong) general principles, is clearly a step in that direction.

    It reminds me of the debate between the Federalists (Alexander Hamilton, et. al.) and the Anti-Federalists (Thomas Jefferson, et. al.) around the time of the U.S. Constitution being adopted. The Anti-Federalists wanted detailed and specific language included in the Bill of Rights that protected Americans’ freedoms in no uncertain language. The Federalists said this was unnecessary, that the Constitution didn’t touch those rights and that everything protected didn’t need to be spelled out.

    History (at least from a libertarian p.o.v.) clearly shows the Anti-Federalists were correct. Imagine how much worse the situation would be today in this country if we didn’t have a First Amendment, a Second Amendment, a Fourth Amendment, with their clear and inspirational language upholding our rights, and were forced to rely only on the overall spirit of the document and the circumstances of its founding without the details contained in the BIll of Rights.

    Unfortunately we seem to have a fair number of people in the LP thinking more like Federalists than like Anti-Federalists.

  3. Jill Pyeatt

    Alan and I would have gone if it were not for the floor fees. Paying them twice put my estimate of the weekend at $850. We could probably have paid $600, but the floor fees made it just too much,

  4. Jill Pyeatt

    I’m really glad to hear you made it, Starchild.

    Any idea where the secretary is/was?

  5. paulie

    What were the other costs? I know Visalia has some cheap motels (I’ve stayed in some) and it’s maybe 200 miles from you or a little less. I guess you would have also had to eat out, but then Visalia has some low cost options for that also. That should not add up to 600. Even if you stayed at the convention hotel 600 sounds high (not including floor fee).

  6. Jill Pyeatt

    Well, the rooms were $99 per night plus tax, a tank of gas is $75, and I would have needed to board my dachshund for 4 days, which would be another $75, although the latter is unique to our circumstances. Add $260 in floor fees, and maybe $150 in meals for 2 people for 2 1/2 days, and the figure is up there. Maybe $850 is a bit high, but not much.

  7. David Colborne

    Regarding “watering down” of the platform, I actually prefer a high-level platform, personally. The more you enumerate, the greater the chance that you’re going to get something wrong or get misinterpreted. Plus, issues that can actually succeed in one area might not work so well elsewhere; to use an example closer to my heart, Reno’s attitudes regarding strip clubs and casinos is vastly different from Las Vegas’. Giving candidates the flexibility to “do no harm” on the issues that resonate less with the populace while letting them advance on more popular issues makes it somewhat easier for them to do what we want them to do – get elected and prove that libertarian principles are the best principles for governing at all levels.

    Besides, I personally think conventions are lousy places to draft philosophy. If you want the philosophy of libertarianism elucidated, there are less effective ways to do so than getting several dozen people in a room and debating them over Robert’s Rules, but I’ll be damned if I can think of any.

    As for the attendance at the LPCA convention, if $99 (Early Bird pricing) is the “discounted” rate, I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the reason attendance didn’t increase after the “discount” is because spending money to party in God-forsaken Visalia is an abominable waste of money regardless of how much is spent. Seriously, if you’re going to have the guts to charge $99 a head, make sure you’ve got a venue that can back that up. Here’s a hint – if it’s on CA-99 and south of Sacramento, stop. You’re doing it wrong.

    Jesus… was Fresno too nice or something? *shakes head in bewilderment*

    (Yes, I know – it was probably an unholy compromise between North and South about “who should host the convention this year”. I bet it was originally suggested tongue-in-cheek, only in classic committee fashion, someone actually took the idea of hosting a convention in the county seat of Tulare County seriously and actually put it to a vote. Then the person that suggested the idea thought it’d be hilarious to go along with it and started “defending” it.

    Seriously California, you got trolled hard.)

  8. Jill Pyeatt

    Well, it kind of came down to “value”. Colorado had Ben Swann as a keynote speaker. I might have stretched to see him. Some Olympics guy is the CA keynote speaker, which certainly would be interesting to some people, but not me. I am very sorry to miss Richard Winger, and I’m sorry I won’t have a chance to see Starchild. Also, not too many people from our area went, so we might not have had much fun..

    Now an outsider would say that I have no right to complain, since I didn’t offer to help, and that would be fair. I just don’t feel like I’m part of the state party for a variety of reasons.

  9. José C

    Jill,

    There is a Motel 6 near by that costs $50 a night also there is a motel used by truckers that costs $31. That is where I am staying. On a more positive note according to Mark Heard candidate for the 33rd Congressional we have 500 more registered Libertarians in Los Angeles County. I will check the Secretary of State’s website and start doing a Los Angeles County registration report.

  10. C. Michael Pickens

    This report is very disappointing, but not surprising in the least. In 2013, there were 68 delegates at the LPCA convention. This year attendance has dropped significantly. Many of the Libertarians I am friends with in California complained of the high prices for attendance. Increase prices, sales will decrease. Lower prices and sales will increase.

    I was appointed the Chairman of the Convention Committee for the 2013 LPWA Convention and I submitted a pricing proposal with no floor fees and much lower prices for everything. That proposal and my counter proposal were voted down, and I much higher pricing structure was voted in. Knowing what the outcome of high convention prices, I moved my focus to Washington State.

    The point of a convention is to motivate and inspire activists around the state to increase their level of activism. Is it better to have more activists in attendance or less?

    The one complaint I have heard about having a no floor fee / low ticket cost convention is that the party will lose money if it doesn’t charge high entry fees. This is absolutely wrong, the LPWA had 118 people in attendance and we were able to make an extra $8,000 when you include fundraising during and in the weeks after the convention. The leaders of the party need to pick up the phone and make some fundraising calls.

    This year, the LPWA is charging $55 for the full convention package, with no floor fees. We have already raised the money to cover Gary Johnson and Judge Jim Gray speak, and there are 82 people already RSVP’d with 2 months to go. We are expecting over 200 people with a maximum capacity of 260.

    I am not saying this to rub it in or brag. I am saying this because it is incredibly sad to see such potential being wasted by inexperienced leadership making bad decisions. California has 5.5 times the population of Washington.

    I hope other states learn from this comparison and Libertarians in California will join the LPWA and attend the 2015 LPCA convention and vote most of the current officers out and vote in some Libertarians ready and willing to take the actions necessary to succeed.

  11. paulie

    Thanks for the comparison, Michael. Not sure why your comment was in moderation; the first comment a person makes at IPR gets held up for moderation but I’m pretty sure you have commented here at some point in the past.

  12. Wes Wagner

    California was ground zero for the Starr chamber. This should give you an idea of how great their ideas are/were.

  13. Andy

    “C. Michael Pickens March 30, 2014 at 5:25 am
    This report is very disappointing, but not surprising in the least. In 2013, there were 68 delegates at the LPCA convention. This year attendance has dropped significantly.”

    This is incredibly and embarrassingly pathetic attendance for a state the size of California. California is the most populated state in the country with over 38.3 million people. The Libertarian Party of Arkansas recently had their state convention, and they had over 100 people attend, and the population of Arkansas is just a little over 2.9 million people. I know damn well that there are a lot of libertarians in California, and that if the Libertarian Party of California was better organized and actually did more that they could attract way more people to their state convention. I lived in California for several years and I was active in the LP of CA during most of that time period and I know damn well that the LP of CA used to be way bigger and way more active. I’m talking late ’90’s to mid 2000’s is when I was active in the party there (I was unable to be very active there my last few years as a CA resident due to my work schedule). I remember the LP of CA State Convention that I attended in 2005 that was held at some hotel near the LAX Airport had a few hundred people in attendance, and the LP of CA was already on a down slide by that point. Things have obviously gotten worse there since then. I know that the passage of Top Two Primary dealt a devastating blow to the LP of CA as well as to other minor party and independent candidates there, but even so, this is still pathetic, and the downward spiral of the LP of CA began well before Top Two Primary was passed in June of 2010.

    Those who are in California and who still care about the Libertarian Party need to do some thinking about why the party has gone downhill there and what they can do to turn things around.

  14. Andy

    It should be pointed out that the LP of CA had EASY ballot access for a long time before Top Two Primary was passed in June of 2010. I’m talking from 1980 the LP of CA had party status and it was pretty easy to place candidates on the general election ballot. California also has better free speech protections than most states, so there are plenty of places to go in California where people can talk to the public to spread the Libertarian message and to ask people to register to vote under the Libertarian Party banner. The LP of CA did elect a bunch of people (relatively speaking) to local offices in the past, but I think that the LP of CA had the potential to do a lot more of this, and they also had a greater potential than a lot of other LP affiliates had to elect people to the state legislature. California is a big state, but if they had targeted some districts, particularly where one or both of the major parties was weak, and if they had taken advantage of California’s good access for free speech activities (as in by stationing Libertarians at various venues with public foot traffic in said districts and having them distribute LP outreach material, sign people up for the LP contact list, and register people to vote under the LP banner), I think that the LP of CA could have elected at least a few people to the state legislature. Heck, the freaking Green Party elected somebody to the state legislature in California and I don’t think that they even had a good strategy to do this. There are certainly enough libertarians in California where the LP of CA could have done this. I said could have, because it is now less possible than it was due to Top Two Primary.

  15. Jill Pyeatt

    Andy “Those who are in California and who still care about the Libertarian Party need to do some thinking about why the party has gone downhill there and what they can do to turn things around.”

    Most of us formerly active people have a good idea of what has happened, and hopefully change will start with a new group of people in charge. However, I don’t know if there’s anyone in the state with the resources to be Chairman. Last year, the only person willing to run against Kevin Takenaga was someone who had been a part of the party less than six months! Kevin has said that this is his last term. We had an excellent candidate in So CA who planned to run, I believe, but this indiviual has recently hit some fairly significant bumps in the road.

    To make it simple, Kevin’s lack of transparency has been his failing. No one ever knew what the Ex Com was doing, even sometimes people on the Ex Com didn’t know.

    Also, the high floor fee was absolutely to keep people out, no question about it.Clearly, it worked.

  16. Jill Pyeatt

    I’ve put Vernon’s last two comments in the trash. Another writer can pull them out, but, personally,I think that racism and homophobia for the sake of trolling doesn’t accomplish anything.

  17. Mark Axinn

    Jill–

    I am sorry the cost kept your husband and you from attending the LPC Convention. As our largest state, California is vital to the continued growth of the LP. Many good people from all sides of the Libertarian Party are based in California, and without a strong local affiliate, much good work won’t be done at the local level.

    You kids are of course welcome to attend the New York Convention on April 26. There is no floor fee for the two business sessions (as far as I know, we have never charged for business sessions in 42 years), but I hope all attendees will support our Capital District chapter and pay the bargain price of $75 for lunch, dinner and four fantastic speakers including Geoff Neale.

    More info at http://www.ny.lp.org.

  18. Jill Pyeatt

    I just got word that I was elected to the Judicial Committee, even though I’m not there. So, I guess I’m back on the Executive Committee!

  19. Jill Pyeatt

    Btw, I haven’t given up on the Ca LP. I’m still chairperson for the Pasadena region of Los Angeles. I have felt that my efforts were more effective locally.

  20. William Saturn

    Then go ahead and put the comments back, William.

    Somebody cleared the trash bin.

  21. Jill Pyeatt

    I see that someone cleared the trash, and it wasn’t me! This is why I suspect that the troll has access to the dashboard. I purposefully leave the comments in trash so someone can pull them out and repost them if they disagree. This certainly is a mystery. The person I think is our most prolific troll isn’t listed as a writer but has some friends who are/ were. Maybe we should all change our passwords.

  22. Starchild

    I nominated Dave Jones of Marin County for California’s LNC regional rep. Unfortunately he got sick earlier in the day and had to leave, so was not present for the election. I had little hope of him beating Dan Wiener in any case, who has been around forever and has long been easily reelected to the regional rep seat he has held for years, but I wanted to have at least some token opposition for the seat.

    So I was pleasantly surprised that even not being present, Dave got 25 votes to 32 for Dan. Since Dave is relatively new to the LP and not many people here know him, I see these close results as a positive indicator that California delegates do value transparency and see the need for fresh faces on the LNC. I had stressed in my nominating comments how we need new blood on the LNC and Dan Wiener has been bad on transparency and accountability issues.

    There was also 1 write-in vote for Ted Brown (a longtime and popular LP member; he nominated Dan Wiener for reelection), and 1 vote for NOTA.

    So Dave got elected to our 2nd representative slot (as I was last year), but in practice this means nothing unless we form a region with some other state(s) that agree to let California appoint both reps, which as Kevin Takenaga pointed out is unlikely.

    Currently we are waiting for the results in the election to the alternate slot. Current LPC secretary Janine Kloss is running against incumbent alternate Scott Lieberman. I’m hoping she gets in, and think she may have a decent shot at it — Scott is not as popular as Dan. But she also may be hurt by not having been here this weekend even though she is state secretary. I haven’t heard an explanation of why she’s not here, but I understand she’s been frustrated with Kevin Takenaga and the current leadership, as I was when on the state executive committee.

  23. Starchild

    LNC regional alternate results just in:

    Scott Lieberman – 25 votes
    Janine Kloss – 20 votes
    Dave Jones – 1 vote (I nominated him for alternate, but then withdrew the nomination so as not to split the vote between Janine and Scott, and because I hadn’t asked him about running for the alternate slot)

    So it looks like Scott is back on the LNC for another term. Disappointing, but not super surprising.

  24. Starchild

    To clarify that last note, I meant to say I withdrew Dave’s nomination so as not to split the anti-incumbent vote between he and Janine. Janine was nominated by Mark Hinkle, but I think he mainly just wanted someone to replace Scott — I was hopeful that Janine would have taken better positions than Mark has on many issues if she’d been chosen.

  25. Starchild

    Jill – Yes, we did earlier. Thanks for the reminder to post that, and also the Judicial Committee results. I’ve been somewhat distracted here focusing on the business and apologize for not trying to multi-task and post more.

    There were 10 candidates for At-Large state Executive Committee representative. Voting was as follows:

    Antoine Hage – 39 (elected 2-year term)
    Leon Weinstein – 38 (elected 2-year term)
    Kevin Duewel – 37 (elected 2-year term)
    Jim Hoerrick – 36 (elected 2-year term)
    Jose Tovar – 32 (elected 2-year term)
    Dana McLorn – 31 (elected 1-year term)
    Flavio Fiumerodo – 25 (elected 1st alternate)
    Stephen Blakeman – 24 (elected 2nd amendment)
    Jose Castenada – 19 (not elected)
    David McDonald – 16 (not elected)

    There were only 3 candidates for 5 Judicial Committee slots, Ted Brown, Aaron Starr, and Jill Pyeatt. The three were elected by acclamation. Presumably the remaining two slots will be filled by ExCom appointment (assuming they find people willing to serve).

  26. Andy

    So how many people exactly are in attendance at the Libertarian Party of California State Convention?

    The Libertarian Party of Arkansas had a little over 100 people at their state convention, and California has about 13.2 times the population of Arkansas. So for the LP of California State Convention to be in ratio scale to the LP of Arkansas State Convention, the LP of California State Convention would need to have over 1,300 people in attendance.

    The LP of Arkansas is making the LP of California look bad.

  27. Andy

    “Jill Pyeatt March 30, 2014 at 5:58 pm
    I see that someone cleared the trash, and it wasn’t me! This is why I suspect that the troll has access to the dashboard. I purposefully leave the comments in trash so someone can pull them out and repost them if they disagree. This certainly is a mystery. The person I think is our most prolific troll isn’t listed as a writer but has some friends who are/ were. Maybe we should all change our passwords.”

    Change the passwords and see what happens.

  28. paulie

    So how many people exactly are in attendance at the Libertarian Party of California State Convention?

    The Libertarian Party of Arkansas had a little over 100 people at their state convention, and California has about 13.2 times the population of Arkansas. So for the LP of California State Convention to be in ratio scale to the LP of Arkansas State Convention, the LP of California State Convention would need to have over 1,300 people in attendance.

    The LP of Arkansas is making the LP of California look bad.

    Arkansas rocks!

  29. paulie

    Scott L.

    12:56 AM (4 hours ago)

    to lnc-discuss

    Mr. Frankel quotes:

    ?Brian Holtz reports at https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2014/03/california-libertarian-convention-day-1-2

    “The Libertarian Party of California convened today in Visalia.

    09:15 Came to order with 44 delegates.”

    Michael Pickens replies in the comments:

    “C. Michael Pickens March 30, 2014 at 5:25 am

    This report is very disappointing, but not surprising in the least. In 2013, there were 68 delegates at the LPCA convention. This year attendance has dropped significantly. Many of the Libertarians I am friends with in California complained of the high prices for attendance. Increase prices, sales will decrease. Lower prices and sales will increase.

    The point of a convention is to motivate and inspire activists around the state to increase their level of activism. Is it better to have more activists in attendance or less??

    LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

    I agree with Mr. Pickens that the attendance at the LP of California Convention this past weekend was lower than optimal.

    However ? on Saturday ? we had 7 ? yes – 7 elected Libertarians in the room. Two Mayors-Pro-Tem, one City Council member,

    3 Water Board members, and one School Board member. That might be the most elected Libertarians ever to be in one room at an LP State Convention anywhere in the USA.

    Wikipedia is a little out of date since John Inks? term as Mayor ended a few months ago, so Wikipedia is a little behind, but it is really nice to see this:

    City of Mountain View

    City

    City Hall and the Center for the Performing Arts in the Downtown area

    Official seal of City of Mountain View
    Seal

    Location of Mountain View within Santa Clara County, California

    Coordinates: [Show location on an interactive map] 37?23?22?N 122?4?55?WCoordinates: [Show location on an interactive map] 37?23?22?N 122?4?55?W

    Country

    United States

    State

    California

    County

    Santa Clara

    Incorporated

    November 7, 1902

    Government

    ? Mayor

    John Inks (L)[1]

    Area[2]

    ? Total

    12.273 sq mi (31.788 km2)

    ? Land

    11.995 sq mi (31.068 km2)

    ? Water

    0.278 sq mi (0.720 km2) 2.26%

    Elevation

    105 ft (32 m)

    Population (2010)

    ? Total

    74,066

    ? Density

    6,000/sq mi (2,300/km2)

    Time zone

    PST (UTC-8)

    _______________________________________________
    Lnc-discuss mailing list
    Lnc-discuss@hq.lp.org
    http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-discuss_hq.lp.org

  30. paulie

    Change the passwords and see what happens.

    I can’t even get a hold of most of the people signed up to post articles at IPR so how would I get them to change their passwords?

    The assumption that the person(s) clearing the trash is the troll or is working with the troll may or may not be correct. It may also, for example, be someone who does not always read comments, but keeps up with the trash and doesn’t even realize there is anything controversial about taking out the garbage. Or it could indeed be the troll, which could mean that he is signed up as an IPR writer….or cracked a password, or shoulder surfed it, or has a keylogger virus on one or more of our computers, or is with the NSA, etc. In other words it doesn’t tell us nearly as much as you and Jill seem to assume. Nor will changing passwords, even if we could get everyone to do it, eliminate possibilities such as keyloggers.

  31. paulie

    I’m still chairperson for the Pasadena region of Los Angeles. I have felt that my efforts were more effective locally.

    You are probably correct.

  32. paulie

    Then go ahead and put the comments back, William.

    I don’t have a problem with removing it. For anyone who is curious, the gist of the troll’s comment was that California and Florida have too few white people to have a successful LP, because almost all Libertarians are white, and that the reason that the Washington State LP has more successful conventions than LPCA the last couple of years has something to do with neo-nazi screwball Harold Covington’s cockamamie plan to get white people to set up a separatist Aryan nation in the Pacific Northwest, which may have caused a few hundred neo-nazi boneheads to move up there (although that is probably a reach). That’s a laughable proposition on its surface. The other comment on the Florida thread also went in to some equally hare brained scheme to move the nation of Israel to Florida and set up a LGBT “quarantine” zone in the Florida Keys. William Saturn can “debate” these kinds of “quality” comments if he wants, but I have no problem with just deleting them.

  33. paulie

    Last year, the only person willing to run against Kevin Takenaga was someone who had been a part of the party less than six months!

    She won’t still have that problem next year.

  34. paulie

    It should be pointed out that the LP of CA had EASY ballot access for a long time before Top Two Primary was passed in June of 2010. I’m talking from 1980 the LP of CA had party status and it was pretty easy to place candidates on the general election ballot. California also has better free speech protections than most states, so there are plenty of places to go in California where people can talk to the public to spread the Libertarian message and to ask people to register to vote under the Libertarian Party banner. The LP of CA did elect a bunch of people (relatively speaking) to local offices in the past, but I think that the LP of CA had the potential to do a lot more of this, and they also had a greater potential than a lot of other LP affiliates had to elect people to the state legislature. California is a big state, but if they had targeted some districts, particularly where one or both of the major parties was weak, and if they had taken advantage of California’s good access for free speech activities (as in by stationing Libertarians at various venues with public foot traffic in said districts and having them distribute LP outreach material, sign people up for the LP contact list, and register people to vote under the LP banner), I think that the LP of CA could have elected at least a few people to the state legislature. Heck, the freaking Green Party elected somebody to the state legislature in California and I don’t think that they even had a good strategy to do this. There are certainly enough libertarians in California where the LP of CA could have done this. I said could have, because it is now less possible than it was due to Top Two Primary.

    Yep, that was a huge missed opportunity.

  35. paulie

    Doug Craig on LNC list:

    back in 1999…we all had 3 to 4 times the members…We need to fiqure out …how to get back there…maybe we need to get back to the shared membership program…right now the states are hurting on money….we are spending extra money to get people to join the state and having to pay for new state brochures…We need to get back working as one two team…..and at the end of the day some of the states will do a better job sp3nding this money then national…just based on the free market…and at the end of the day if membership goes back to 1999 level we all win and everyone’s budget will grow…

    Doug Craig chairman of the libertarian party of Georgia. . and alt board member on the lnc…

  36. Andy

    “paulie March 31, 2014 at 5:09 am

    ‘Change the passwords and see what happens.’

    I can’t even get a hold of most of the people signed up to post articles at IPR so how would I get them to change their passwords?”

    If you can’t get a hold of some of the writers, then the heck with them. They will either pop back up here at some point and ask why they no longer have access to the dashboard, or they will never pop back up, in which case, it is not like they were going to contribute any more material anyway.

    So I say change the passwords and see what happens.

  37. Janine Kloss

    Thanks for the great recap as I couldn’t join the convention this year! Jill, unfortunately, I needed to attend to family obligations that couldn’t be pushed back this weekend. I’m sorry the floor fees inhibited your participation (and many others).

    I wanted to address the remarks about the options for chair last year. You had a viable option for chair, but some felt it would be more interesting to watch leadership fail. I personally don’t believe we have the luxury of time in California. Our rights are being eroded so significantly and our state sets the trend for the Country.

    So how viable was I to serve the… gasp… almost 800ish members…? Well I’ve had an operating budget that will total almost $300,000 for this fiscal year, held over 20 events in Sac County where I serve as chairman (with over 300 unique participants with most returning for 2nd and 3rd events and many returning for 3+ events), held two campaign training schools and over 10 advocacy courses, traveled all throughout California interacting with hundreds of liberty oriented folks, facilitated donations to 5 county organizations (the ones who got their acts together and made a reasonable request), and have 2 full time LP staff here in Sacramento. I guess that’s pretty darn good for my first year. I would have liked to work on the state level in order to spur the kind of growth we need in California in order to turn the state around, but I’m not privy to state party Intel… even as Secretary.

    Honestly, I have very little patience for incompetence and game playing. We are so far behind the curve and the focus should absolutely be on becoming a viable option for California so that we can seize the opportunity to turn this state around. The shift, just over this last year, has been incredible. But universally, the resounding answer when I ask why people haven’t joined the LP is that it isn’t a realistic/viable/serious option. I’m not into fighting over peanuts or eating each other alive in order to be a big fish in a little pond. No one person is to blame… our party culture is in tatters.

  38. Andy

    “However – on Saturday – we had 7 – yes – 7 elected Libertarians in the room. Two Mayors-Pro-Tem, one City Council member,

    3 Water Board members, and one School Board member. That might be the most elected Libertarians ever to be in one room at an LP State Convention anywhere in the USA.”

    This is nice, but I remember the LP of CA was electing people to local offices like this back in the late ’90’s and early to mid 2000’s when I was active there. How is this progress? These are local offices that hardly anybody pays any attention to. Sure, It is better than nothing, but I would have hoped back in the late ’90’s and the early to mid 2000’s that by 2014, the LP of California would have had more progress than this, If anything, the LP of CA is currently a shell of what it was back then. The goal should always be to make the party bigger and more successful. If this is not happening, then it is a sign that things are not being done right.

  39. Jill Pyeatt

    Janine said: “I’m not privy to state party Intel… even as Secretary.”

    IMO, this is the main problem with our leadership. Only a privileged few on the Ex Com knew what was going on, and there’s no excuse for that. I’m not talking about lack of transparency. I’m talking about a delibertately built opaque wall. I don’t get it, unless the purpose was to destroy the CA LP, but I really don’t think that was Kevin’s purpose. That lack of communication was the primary reason my husband quit the committee.

  40. paulie

    If you can’t get a hold of some of the writers, then the heck with them. They will either pop back up here at some point and ask why they no longer have access to the dashboard, or they will never pop back up, in which case, it is not like they were going to contribute any more material anyway.

    So I say change the passwords and see what happens.

    It doesn’t work like that. Each editor is in charge of their own password; I don’t know what their passwords are much less have access to change them. Even when I was an admin here as far as I know I could not change anyone else’s password for them.

  41. paulie

    I wanted to address the remarks about the options for chair last year. You had a viable option for chair, but some felt it would be more interesting to watch leadership fail. I personally don’t believe we have the luxury of time in California. Our rights are being eroded so significantly and our state sets the trend for the Country.

    So how viable was I to serve the… gasp… almost 800ish members…? Well I’ve had an operating budget that will total almost $300,000 for this fiscal year, held over 20 events in Sac County where I serve as chairman (with over 300 unique participants with most returning for 2nd and 3rd events and many returning for 3+ events), held two campaign training schools and over 10 advocacy courses, traveled all throughout California interacting with hundreds of liberty oriented folks, facilitated donations to 5 county organizations (the ones who got their acts together and made a reasonable request), and have 2 full time LP staff here in Sacramento. I guess that’s pretty darn good for my first year. I would have liked to work on the state level in order to spur the kind of growth we need in California in order to turn the state around, but I’m not privy to state party Intel… even as Secretary.

    Honestly, I have very little patience for incompetence and game playing. We are so far behind the curve and the focus should absolutely be on becoming a viable option for California so that we can seize the opportunity to turn this state around. The shift, just over this last year, has been incredible. But universally, the resounding answer when I ask why people haven’t joined the LP is that it isn’t a realistic/viable/serious option. I’m not into fighting over peanuts or eating each other alive in order to be a big fish in a little pond. No one person is to blame… our party culture is in tatters.

    I hope you run again and win next year. The party sorely needs that attitude and aptitude.

  42. paulie

    Mark Hinkle

    2:50 PM (8 minutes ago)

    to lnc-discuss
    Dear LNC,

    U.M.P. will NOT fix the LPC. Only the departure of the Chair and the anti-growth mentality of some of the old “leadership” will begin to repair the damage done to the LPC over the last 13 years.

    They are NOT interested in running partisan candidates, raising money, or prospecting for new members.

    They moved the office from a low rent area in Southern California, where is was staffed most of the time to a higher rent “Executive Suite”, i.e. smaller, office in Sacramento where it is NOT staffed 80% of the time (M-F). And they no longer have paid staff. They do have Gale Morgan (Northern Vice Chair) who volunteers a day in the office every Friday.

    The LPC convention this last weekend was the poorest attended LPC convention in my 40 years in the LP. Also, it never ran on time.

    The ONE local libertarian who attended was heard to say “this is the poorest run meeting I’ve ever attended”. Think he’ll be back?

    Every proposal from the Platform Committee was rejected by the few delegates who did attend and there was absolutely NO Bylaws Report.

    From that prospective is was a complete waste of time.

    On the plus side, and perhaps the only plus, was meeting and getting to know two dynamic new activists: Jonathan Jaeck (pronouced Jake) and Jeff Hewitt.

    Jonathan was elected Southern Vice Chair and is also our only statewide candidate (for Attorney General) and Jeff is Mayor Pro-tem of Calimesa, CA and was the LP candidate in a special election (State Senate district # 23).

    These two are worth watching!!!

    If only I could get those 48 hours back!!!

    I will be attending the LP of Texas convention and I know that will be far better attended, and better run, than the dismal LPC convention.

    I’m really looking forward to that event next month.

    Yours in liberty………………Mark Hinkle,
    LNC At-Large & Retired LP Chair

    “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.”
    – Samuel Adams

  43. paulie

    I personally think conventions are lousy places to draft philosophy. If you want the philosophy of libertarianism elucidated, there are less effective ways to do so than getting several dozen people in a room and debating them over Robert’s Rules, but I’ll be damned if I can think of any.

    Good point.

    As for the attendance at the LPCA convention, if $99 (Early Bird pricing) is the “discounted” rate, I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the reason attendance didn’t increase after the “discount” is because spending money to party in God-forsaken Visalia is an abominable waste of money regardless of how much is spent. Seriously, if you’re going to have the guts to charge $99 a head, make sure you’ve got a venue that can back that up. Here’s a hint – if it’s on CA-99 and south of Sacramento, stop. You’re doing it wrong.

    Jesus… was Fresno too nice or something? *shakes head in bewilderment*

    (Yes, I know – it was probably an unholy compromise between North and South about “who should host the convention this year”. I bet it was originally suggested tongue-in-cheek, only in classic committee fashion, someone actually took the idea of hosting a convention in the county seat of Tulare County seriously and actually put it to a vote. Then the person that suggested the idea thought it’d be hilarious to go along with it and started “defending” it.

    Seriously California, you got trolled hard.)

    It’s worse than that. This is a return to Visalia. The convention was at the same place either last year or a couple of years ago.

  44. Jill Pyeatt

    As far as the venue, I believe Visalia was the site of the convention in 2009. I remember it being a decent place and only a 3 hr drive for Angelenos, although there wasn’t much else around. The southern vice chairperson spent quite a bit of time searching for something in the Palm Springs area, and reported that none of the convention even got back to her with a proposal, and, if they did, they were much too expensive.

  45. paulie

    It does better when it is near a major city (for those driving) with a major airport (California is big enough that a lot of people may prefer to fly in). The LAX area hotel in 2005 served both needs and I would expect SFO to have similar venues. Visalia being the venue assumes that people from LA will want to drive ~200 miles and people from SF/SJ/Sac somewhere around the same distance roughly speaking. It appears not to be true given observed facts. I don’t know what the airport situation may be in Visalia, but I doubt it has a major one.

  46. Andy

    “They moved the office from a low rent area in Southern California, where is was staffed most of the time to a higher rent ‘Executive Suite’, i.e. smaller, office in Sacramento where it is NOT staffed 80% of the time (M-F).”

    I remember the old Libertarian Party of California office. It was in Panorama City which is in the San Fernando Valley. I was there several times. It was cheap, and it got the job done.

    It sounds like moving the office to Sacramento has not accomplished anything positive.

  47. Andy

    “They are NOT interested in running partisan candidates, raising money, or prospecting for new members.”

    This begs the question of, what is it that they are interested in doing?

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