Press "Enter" to skip to content

Orthodox Libertarians on the Move

Notwithstanding the recent Mises Caucus takeover of the LNC, orthodox Libertarians across America are advancing.

In New Hampshire, orthodox Libertarians are running candidates for U.S. Senate (Kevin Kahn), Governor (Kelly Halldorson), and lower offices.

In Pennsylvania, orthodox Libertarians blocked from their state party have reformed as the Pennsylvania Keystone Party, and are running candidates for statewide office.

In Massachusetts, the Libertarian Association of Massachusetts, despite having had its delegates to the 2022 Libertarian National Convention rejected, is running candidates for five of the six Massachusetts statewide offices.

In Illinois, the LPIL Vice Chair’s resolution, ending

“BE IT RESOLVED, LPIL condemns bigotry as irrational and repugnant; and

BE IT RESOLVED, LPIL does not welcome any individual as a Member or Candidate who expresses hate in their hearts for anyone based on immutable characteristics; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, LPIL unites behind the inclusion of all individuals who adhere to a lifestyle of non-aggression and stands in steadfast dedication to the defense of their natural right to Life, Liberty, and Property.”

was passed by the LP Illinois State Committee with only one vote in opposition.

25 Comments

  1. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | July 1, 2022

    Well, no. The Libertarian Party wisely jettisoned its contact with Ron Paul over the racist content of his newsletters, which he originally agreed was his work but claimed was being taken out of context, but when that became politically inexpedient he blamed on his ghostwriters and staff. He did become a rallying point for founders of the League of the South, Confederate reconstructionists, folks denying that the slaveholders revolted because they thought Lincoln was coming to take their slaves, advocates of a ‘libertarianism’ in which schools had compulsory Christian prayer, gold fetishists, and, more recently, antivaxxers. These are people whose support Libertarians should not welcome.

  2. NewFederalist NewFederalist June 30, 2022

    That would be orthodic libertarians. 😉

  3. Seebeck Seebeck June 30, 2022

    “Orthodox Libertarians?”

    How many foot doctors are in the LP anyway? 2?

    /s

  4. David Niggemeyer David Niggemeyer June 30, 2022

    Regarding the Mises Caucus,

    Its popularity and growth came at a time when party leadership attempted to wash the Libertarian Party image clean of Ron Paul due to his Politically InCorrect statements regarding NULLIFICATION & SECESSION.

    Ron Paul’s presidential bids launched a true grassroots movement throughout the nation, especially among the youth. Many gravitated towards Tom Woods, Lew Rockwell, Judge Napolitano, Thomas DeLorenzo, and others who were and still are promoting the Mises Caucus, especially Tom Woods as he is a source of Ancap education and a gateway to the Mises Caucus.

    Each of these individuals possess what may be called “conservative” views on certain issues, especially the Right to Life issue as well as similar comments regarding NULLIFICATION and SECESSION.

    The Mises Caucus wants to continue in a kind of Ron Paul Revolution 2.0 version and I support that.

    However, I fear that they are too rigid in their ideology of anarchism and more than a few are immature zealots. Still, this situation was totally avoidable because previous leadership added fuel to the fire by supporting the Mask Mandates, Lockdowns, BLM, and smearing the reputations of such fine torch bearers.

  5. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | June 29, 2022

    “Classical” sounds good. So it shall be.

  6. Eric Sundwall Eric Sundwall June 29, 2022

    I saw Redlich in March . . . liv’n the dream in Florida.
    GRATZZZZ Prof. Phillies. GRATZZZZZ

    I’d go with “Classic” Libertarian over “Orthodox” after the seminar on branding. Both open themselves up to snarky accusations from the CringeLords . . . depending on one’s perspective. Scratching my chin . . . what about the NO NUKES LIBS? That could be Big Tent, fast. Worldwide influence and acceptance. Think Big Peeps.

    I’ve decided to run a write in campaign for NY Governor. Happy to discuss. If there’s an outlet that will take me.
    Tagline: ” 130k w/o Permission”
    #bold>SUN4GUV<bold# (stencil in subway plz)

    SUN4GOV – no URL yet . . . just an under ground sticker campaign with local "skaters', not boarders!
    Always feel like Rip Van Winkle here . . . at least I can see the Catskills from my porch.
    Long Live Seth Warner!

  7. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | June 28, 2022

    We are having an issue with the comment thread getting off topic. The topic here is what the non-Mises people are doing with respect to political action.

    Graham asks a legitimate question, which justifies a post, especially since the LNC Vice Chair has recently had his Twitter account suspended.

  8. Libertydave Libertydave June 28, 2022

    Contrary to what other have said, I have not tried to force my views on anyone. What I tried to say is that Libertarians should quit trying to label or group other people. We support Individual rights not group rights.

    While I don’t like to group other people, I will take people at their word when they take on labels to describe themselves like, “Social Conservative”.

    From Wikipedia “Social conservatism in the United States is a political ideology focused on the preservation of traditional values and beliefs. It focuses on a concern with moral and social values which proponents of the ideology see as degraded in modern society by liberalism. In the United States, one of the largest forces of social conservatism is the Christian right.

    Social conservatives in the United States are concerned with many social issues such as opposition to abortion, opposition to feminism, support for traditional family values, opposition to pornography, support for abstinence-only sex education, opposition to LGBT rights, support for school prayer, support for school vouchers, support for Sunday blue laws, opposition to gambling, and opposition to recreational drug use, among others.”

    In contrast from Libertarianism.org, ”

    Libertarians believe that, in politics, liberty is the most important value. Almost everyone wants freedom for themselves, but a libertarian also seeks to protect and expand the freedom of others.

    When people are free, we can create a more just, more prosperous, safer, and better world for everyone.”

    While we can see libertarians and social conservatives share some views, they do not have the same core values and are not the same, if you are a social conservative then you are not a libertarian. That being said, I am willing to work with anyone to advance the cause of liberty regardless of their personal beliefs. That doesn’t mean that I will not call them out when they misrepresent what Libertarianism is.

    People also shouldn’t exaggerate in their communication, it to easy to check and makes them look desperate and dishonest.

  9. Jared Jared June 28, 2022

    How about humane, mainline, general, or broad libertarianism? “Orthodox” makes it sound more theological than political.

  10. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | June 28, 2022

    On a different sort of note, this sort of dispute about libertarianism, Green meanings, the Constitution, socialism, phalangism, etc., will by and by be advancing to Third Party Watch.

  11. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | June 28, 2022

    Shawn,

    I am sympathetic to your point of view, but would need a better word. The word would need to be one word, would need to be positive as a descriptor, and would need to be broad rather than narrow. Given that Libertarians as part of their doctrine disagree with each other, ‘orthodox’ seemed to work.

    George, owner

  12. Shawn Levasseur Shawn Levasseur June 28, 2022

    I don’t know what term to use, but “Orthodox” really doesn’t fit. It’s pretty much “everyone but Mises” and encompasses quite a few points of view.

  13. Andy Andy June 28, 2022

    Liberty Dave said:: “Social Conservatives or Traditionalists’ are not Libertarian. While you may support some libertarian ideas your willingness to control other people you don’t like or approve of while claiming to be a libertarian make you a hypocrite.”

    Not true at all. A person can personally oppose drug use, and not want drugs used in their home, but still oppose the government’s War on Drugs. A person can not like Gay Pride events, and can chose not to attend them, but still believe in the right of gay to have Gay Pride events,

    “Bigotry and intolerance are the excuses used to take away rights and freedoms not defend them.”

    Sure, they can be used as excuses to take away rights, but bigotry and intolerance in and of themselves do not take anyone’s rights away.

    Randy Weaver moved to Ruby Ridge, Idaho because he wanted to live somewhere where there were few non-whites around. This did not violate anyone’s rights, and he was in fact not violating anyone’s rights when an undercover federal agent set him up on an absurd gun control charge by baiting him into selling a shotgun where the barrel was a quarter of an incher shorter than federal law allowed.

    It is rather astounding the number of people who have been in the Libertarian Party and movement for many years who STILL don’t understand the philosophy. No wonder the Libertarian Party and movement are not more successful.

  14. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | June 28, 2022

    Parts of the above posts are a bit on the edge of being less than civil. Addressing the idea rather than the author sometimes helps, and sometimes is the wrong answer. Tune it down a bit, though.

  15. David Niggemeyer David Niggemeyer June 27, 2022

    A Response to LibertyDave,

    During the 2016 Gary Johnson presidential campaign, I heard him ask the viewers to visit ISideWith.com, answer the quiz questions, and see the results of which candidate and party that we actually agree with the most. So, I did. My top 3 results are:

    1) Constitution Party 85%; 2) Libertarian Party 84%; and 3) American Solidarity Party 73%.

    Considering that neither the Constitution Party nor American Solidarity Party cannot legitimately consider themselves a national party able to take on the entrenched duopoly of Democrips & Rebloodlicans (Jesse Ventura reference), the Libertarian Party is the only viable alternative for me. However, even though I overwhelmingly agree with them on the issues, there is a loud and irate sect within the party who view me and others as a threat because of our personal beliefs. How is that rational?

    Your fear of people with either a similar or the same worldview as I do is irrational because in the name of “liberty” you are forcing your personal beliefs on me because you think me a “bigot” who wants to “control others”. Your focus and sight is on us rather than The State. Besides, where is it in the bylaws that states that all party members must approve of each other and work together without disagreement?

    You are not opposing actual policy as I have neither presented nor advocated for any specific policy, but a type of person who is rooted with a strong sense of Western Culture and Christian Identity who believes in Natural Law. If you want to be tolerant of others and welcome people with differing views, then you should extend your right hand of fellowship towards “Social Conservatives”, embrace them as political allies in the fight against tyranny, and work together in our shared common cause. Otherwise, I feel that you are being selfish because you are placing your personal feelings above the party and the cause who’s only chance of success is dependent on coalition building.

  16. graham graham June 27, 2022

    Is there an open thread somewhere or a more appropriate place to discuss the latest public LP regime and their “wtf?” statist public statements and positions? Like, mostly, I want to seek to understand what Mises has to do with big-government surveillance states, rounding up and punishing abortion doctors, having as many kids as possible whether you can support them or even see them because it’s a blessing from God, “physically removing liberals” (I guess because “real” Libertarians are cultural conservatives and everyone else needs to go join the Dems), among other things according to elected LNC officials. And that’s just a typical afternoon browsing the twitter feeds of these folks. I used to assume the Mises folks were “more anarchist” or however you want to put it, but these folks sure love big gov. Maybe personal stuff shouldn’t matter. Honestly, I used to be a little embarrassed by the number of unemployed socially awkward nerds and assorted weirdos running for office and LP spots. Many of those labels apply to myself, btw. However, now we have edgelord grifters with baby-mama drama all over social media proposing violence and government expansion. Like Herschel Walker-level of family life cringe but with none of the fame or accomplishments. Bring back the nerdy policy wonks and weirdos who just want to be left alone and not be attacked by some dorks who think they are cool now because they have a couple edgy podcast buddies and MMA friends who would have stolen their lunch money in Jr High.

  17. Libertydave Libertydave June 27, 2022

    According to the LP platform the libertarian party advocates for everyone’s rights and freedoms. This means that it doesn’t matter how you want to group people, be it “Mises Caucus” or “Orthodox Libertarians”, because the LP advocates for the individuals rights and freedoms regardless of labels. In order for liberty to work everyone has to have the same rights and freedoms. So can we quit grouping people and treat everyone as individuals.

    The LP welcomes anyone who wants to advocate for liberty. You don’t have to be libertarian to support the libertarian party. All we ask is that when you are claiming to be Libertarian that you advocate for liberty.

    Social Conservatives or “Traditionalists” are not Libertarian. While you may support some libertarian ideas your willingness to control other people you don’t like or approve of while claiming to be a libertarian make you a hypocrite.

    Bigotry and intolerance are the excuses used to take away rights and freedoms not defend them.

    Also Social Conservatives are not Traditionalists when it come to abortion and immigration. For the entire history of mankind, society has allowed abortion up to about 25th week of pregnancy and all countries have had open borders unless they were at war until about 50 to 100 years ago.

  18. Andy Andy June 26, 2022

    Most of the delegates at the LP of Pennsylvania Convention were from Pennsylvania. There were some out-of-state members there who were NOT with the Mises Caucus (like Nicholas Sarwark), and some who were. The Mises Caucus still would have won at this convention if no out of state people were there.

  19. David Niggemeyer David Niggemeyer June 25, 2022

    In Response to George Phillies,

    The Libertarian Party would be making a fundamental mistake by becoming, yet another socially-conservative party.

    Abiding by the Non-Aggression Principle, the Libertarian Party has a legitimate case to offer both “Social Conservatives” & “Social Liberals” to join the Libertarian Party as neither the Republican Party nor the Democratic Party adhere to their constitutional restraints and they actively oppose those who do try. Regarding the Constitution Party, it is not on the ballot in most States and of the States that it is on the ballot there are typically few candidates.

  20. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | June 25, 2022

    The United States already has two social conservative parties, the Republican Party and the Constitution Party. They already divide up a minority of the vote. Why would a third social conservative party make any sense, especially a party that has a long tradition of being socially radical-liberal?.

  21. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | June 25, 2022

    The owner anticipates that there may be some vigorous discussion of Mr. Niggemeyer’s comments. Writers are encouraged to remember that discussion must stay on issues, not lapse into personal attacks on other writers.

  22. David Niggemeyer David Niggemeyer June 25, 2022

    Regarding these RESOLUTIONS.

    The “Woke” faction of the Libertarian Party seeks to root out “Social Conservatives” within the Libertarian Party. They use these Political Correct tactics with language that has lost its absolute, definitive meaning within our society due to Cultural Marxism under the guise of “tolerance”. Such resolutions are a clever tactic because 1) they offer a framework to expel unwanted party members and 2) whoever opposes the resolution(s) open themselves up for personal attacks on their character.

    Social Conservatives are better labeled as Traditionalists because they hold to a set of longstanding core values that have held culture and society together for the entire history of mankind. The Libertarian Party cannot achieve exponential growth without Traditionalists making up a large portion of the party.

    A successful party requires coalition building.

  23. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | June 25, 2022

    Andy asks several fair questions.

    First, all comments are now moderated. That means that if you comment while the Editors and Admins are asleep, you get to wait.

    Second, how were the orthodox Libertarians blocked in Pennsylvania? They were outvoted. Our sources say that the Mises caucus advanced because its supporters from nearby states showed up and were allowed to vote. That was allowed under Pennsylvania LP bylaws.

    Third, the Libertarian Party is now very deeply factionalized. On one side is the Mises Caucus, with its openings to the right as seen, for example, in the repeal of the abortion plank and the change in the bigotry language. The other side, which is still disorganized, needs a descriptive name, so we are applying one, ‘orthodox’.

  24. Andy Andy June 25, 2022

    What defines one as am orthodox Libertarian? Whose definition?

    Also, nobody was blocked from the Libertarian Party in Pennsylvania. Nobody was kicked out of the party. Certain individuals decided to quit on their own. Joe Soloski did lose the gubernatorial nomination to None Of The Above at the state convention. The reason he lost was because he launched nasty personal attacks against a lot of the delegates. If he had not done thar, he likely would have won the nomination.

  25. José C José C June 24, 2022

    I agree.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.

one + 2 =