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Libertarian Party National Convention

The Libertarian Party National Convention happens a few days from now.  This thread is for factual comments on events, including liveblogging. Other comments will not pass through approval.

Similar threads will be created for the Green Party, Constitution Party, and Democratic Socialists of America, if we can find out when their national convention — however titled — is occurring.

83 Comments

  1. Ludwig von Mises Ludwig von Mises May 26, 2022

    Be there or … be expelled.

  2. Morey Morey May 26, 2022

    Will there be a discussion post tomorrow? I have some important endorsements to make.

  3. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | May 26, 2022

    Morey, You are welcome to endorse here.

    Socratic Gadfly: Thanks!

    Ludwig: Tell us more! Who might be expelling whom?

  4. Ryan Ryan May 26, 2022

    Considering he died in 1973, Mr. Mises himself? Unless we’re adopting Chicago election law.

  5. SocraticGadfly SocraticGadfly May 26, 2022

    George, it was a joke. Over at Ballot Access, there’s been a lot of fur flying over the Mises Caucus. So, I posted that waggish observation.

    ==

    On my more serious comment under my own nom de plume, Texas Greens have three candidates:
    Governor: Delilah Barrios
    Land Office Commissioner: Alfred Molison Jr.
    Railroad Commissioner: Hunter Crow

  6. The truth The truth May 26, 2022

    The garbage comment on May 26, 2022 at 15:17 is from Robert K Stock.

  7. None of your business None of your business May 26, 2022

    I’m a Republican right now, but I’ve voted Libertarian several times, including twice for President (1988 and 2008). I wish good luck to the Libertarians fighting to take their party back from the evil leftists, and believe the righteous right-libertarians will prevail here. I also believe we will beat the leftist establishment rhinos in the GOP but it’s good to have a backup plan just in case.

  8. Ryan Ryan May 27, 2022

    Appears the battle plan is defeat all credentials challenges and then remove Chair on grounds of she was improperly elected. They may seek to remove Chair earlier during credentials if she is “recalcitrant”.

    To Socratic Gadfly’s comment on Ballot Access, can someone answer why Richard Winger still allows comments? They’ve long ago ceased to offer any insight.

    Audio up at YouTube as of 12:02 Eastern.

  9. SocraticGadfly SocraticGadfly May 27, 2022

    The Truth is garbage and a troll to boot. He’s been told he’s wrong before both here and at BAN, yet repeats his lies.

  10. George Phillies George Phillies May 27, 2022

    We are an hour and 45 minutes in, and they are arguing about how many people are there. The intelligent request of the Mises caucus that people should not waste floor time is not being honored.

  11. Ryan Ryan May 27, 2022

    Delegate from South Carolina making a motion while holding a Miller Lite in his hand is winning for Favorite.

  12. George Phillies George Phillies May 27, 2022

    Credentials report accepted. Now voting on removing Whitney Bilyeu as convention chair.

  13. Ryan Ryan May 27, 2022

    Bilyeu retained as Chair. I presume from numbers stated to overthrow her required two-thirds?

  14. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 27, 2022

    The attempt to remove Bilyeu as chair got 61%, so that’s a hint as to the strength of the Republican “infiltrate and neuter” PAC fraudulently masquerading as a party caucus (the “Mises Caucus”). They’ve got a majority, but not 2/3.

    Coming up next, a vote to suspend the rules and replace the convention agenda with the agenda preferred by the Republican “infiltrate and neuter” PAC fraudulently masquerading as a party caucus. That will also require 2/3.

    Unfortunately, some key questions only require a majority.

  15. George Phillies George Phillies May 27, 2022

    They reached the agenda. The Mises supporters moved to adopt an alternative agenda, The convention recessed to lunch.

  16. Ryan Ryan May 27, 2022

    Removing Bilyeu though is largely symbolic. She wasn’t running for a full term and was done end of the Convention. Sure, she controls Convention for its length.

    Changing agenda I can see getting more sympathy because it’s not as nakedly partisan.

  17. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 27, 2022

    The point of attempting to remove Bilyeu was to help the Mises PAC figure out how much support it has. That’s important for floor work.

    Hitting 2/3 would have been nice for them, but now they know that on some key questions, they need to try to time things when there are fewer delegates on the floor in general, but a higher percentage of theirs to get 2/3 when needed.

    The point of changing the agenda is to make it easier for the Mises PAC to run the table. That will likely fail too, but it would make things easier for them if they could pull it off. And you can bet they will be whipping THEIR delegates back from lunch on time in hopes of getting a vote while they have a bigger percentage on the floor.

  18. SocraticGadfly SocraticGadfly May 27, 2022

    So, what is the biggest thing that could be changed, and has a reasonable likelihood of being changed with simple majority?

  19. Ryan Ryan May 27, 2022

    They’re good points. I defer to you as you have more convention experience then I do. My convention experience is limited to 2 Republican and 2 Libertarian state conventions where no one has done RONR warfare thankfully.

    I just don’t see as much real value in their agenda changes. I know Setting the Agenda is a major instrument of power, but they for example want to frontload the LNC elections. Okay…they were happening anyway. If you really want to take advantage of fatigue and less delegates present you’d want that late Sunday telling all your followers to stick around. I know my State Chair a couple months ago was telling everyone to planning to go stay til late Sunday because that’s when all the bullshit happens.

    From the Mises Caucus’s own planned agenda they’re already behind 2 hours. (From the LP’s Agenda, they’re behind about 90 minutes.)

  20. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 27, 2022

    SocraticGadfly,

    A majority can elect LNC officers.

  21. ATBAFT ATBAFT May 27, 2022

    Sixty one percent didn’t approve of me chairing their meeting? I’m surprised Billyeu didn’t go to room during recess, pack up,check out, and grab a cab to the airport.

  22. SocraticGadfly SocraticGadfly May 27, 2022

    Thomas, thanks. So, if you can’t win the 2/3 struggles now, Mises folks can put the leadership in place to be ready for the next year and year after.

  23. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 27, 2022

    Not exactly.

    The 2/3 votes tells the Mises PAC how many votes they have in pocket.

    If they have a majority (they do), then they know they can run the table on those officer elections.

    If they hadn’t had a majority, they would have been even more dilatory than things are now, trying to drag shit out, and probably trying to pull a walkout/quorum call if they couldn’t wreck the party any other way.

  24. George Phillies George Phillies May 27, 2022

    The speaker going on now has a bunch of people counting ballots — on stage directly behind him. I have attended ten national conventions, and many other state conventions, and this event — Amash speaking, people right behind him doing things with their backs to the speaker — is undoubtedly the most disgracefully incompetent bit of convention management that I have ever seen.

  25. Not important Not important May 27, 2022

    Amateur hour doesn’t begin to describe that shit show.

  26. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 28, 2022

    Based on events yesterday, I would expect the Mises PAC to do well in the officer/LNC/Judicial Committee elections. They may even run the table.

    I’ll be interested to see whether the state parties that remain libertarian as of today will 1) walk out of the convention as the results become obvious, 2) wait until after the convention to ditch the LNC and set up a new mutual affiliation mechanism (including libertarian affiliate parties in states with non-libertarian LPs), or 3) become Vichy LPs and hope for a D-Day to liberate them in 2024.

  27. Jared Jared May 28, 2022

    George,

    I couldn’t agree more. It was appalling.

    Tom,

    That’s a great take on the chair removal vote and makes a lot of sense.

    My impression of Dasbach’s closing plea for individuality as that he was urging Mises members to vote for whomever each delegate thought was the best chair candidate and not as a hive instructed to install McArdle.

  28. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 28, 2022

    Jared,

    Dasbach was chair when I joined the party, and looking back I think he was a reasonably good chair (despite me perceiving him as being on the opposite side of lots of issues within the party).

    He’s also proven he’s still got political chops. I didn’t think Jo Jorgensen really had a shot at the 2020 presidential nomination, but he managed her campaign to victory on that, and turned in damn good general election vote totals for the situation — a non-former-governor, non-big-name candidate in what was perceived by most as a close race.

    But I think the fix — not in a corrupt sense, in an “out-planned and out-organized by the opposition” sense — is likely in.

    I could be wrong. If it’s close, it may all come down to which factions drank more heavily last night and have delegates in bed hung over instead of on the floor.

  29. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 28, 2022

    A source of mine on-site tells me that national chair Whitney Bilyeu is in the hospital. No details. If it’s true, presumably vice-chair Ken Moellman will chair the business session.

  30. Andy Andy May 28, 2022

    Jo Jorgensen’s vote total was greatly aided by the fact that there were 17 or 18 states where no other minor party or independent candidate qualified for the ballot. This was the weakest competition for the minor party and independent candidate vote that an LP presidential candidate ever had. If you look at the state by state vote percentages, you will see that she got higher vote percentages in the states where she was the only choice on the ballot besides Biden and Trump.

  31. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 28, 2022

    Andy,

    Every election includes a number of factors.

    The fact remains that the LP got more than twice as many votes as it usually gets, and did so with a candidate who was not e.g. a former governor.

  32. Jared Jared May 28, 2022

    Can’t wait to see the LP endorse Ron DeSantis for president in 2024.

  33. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 28, 2022

    Well, you’ll have to wait until, um, 2024 for that.

    Mises PAC candidate Hagopian won treasurer. Vice-chair voting going on now.

  34. William Saturn William Saturn May 28, 2022

    Why is George Phillies deleting comments critical of himself? I keep finding them in the trash. Is this the new censorship policy here? Are comments critical of Phillies no longer allowed on IPR?

  35. Andy Andy May 28, 2022

    I am glad Jorgensen did relatively well, but it needs to be pointed out that part of the reason she did relatively well was the lack of minor party and independent candidates on the ballot in a bunch of states.

  36. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | May 28, 2022

    Saturn. There was a request for a correction. The correction was made. The request now occupies space.

    There have been people accusing others of what appear to be criminal acts, without evidence. That’s a no-no.

  37. Steve Steve May 28, 2022

    Phillies is anti free speech. He’s a fake libertarian.

  38. William Saturn William Saturn May 28, 2022

    That’s not what I saw unless it’s illegal to be a communist or to be inept. What I saw was criticism of the previous LP leadership and of you. You then deleted the comments, similar to how Third Party Watch deleted comments critical of the Barr campaign in 2008.

  39. William Saturn William Saturn May 28, 2022

    I just restored a comment that says “Phillies is anti free speech. He’s a fake libertarian.”

    Is it illegal to oppose free speech or to be a fake libertarian?

  40. Uncle Dave Uncle Dave May 28, 2022

    Both Harlos and Smith were elected secretary? Huh? Did Phillies mess up again?

  41. George Phillies George Phillies May 28, 2022

    The post I thought I deleted was not the Steve post you restored. The post I thought I deleted accused people of being corrupt. I have no idea why the Steve post seen above disappeared. I apologize for disappearing it. I certainly did not mean to delete it, but I may have discovered a novel wordpress feature.

    “corrupt” is on the wrong side of the line, accusing someone of criminal acts without at the same time presenting evidence. That creates a legal problem potentially for the site owner.

  42. George Phillies George Phillies May 28, 2022

    I missed where anyone accused anyone else of being a Communist, a party we would cover here if they ever did anything.

  43. Jared Jared May 28, 2022

    Saturn, I think Phillies is more likely to remove such a comment as spam that contributes nothing than because it’s critical of him. Every Libertarian, left and right, radical and moderate, has been accused of being a fake libertarian more than once. (I’m sure Phillies would say the same about me, since I support legal restrictions on abortion.) We’re all used to it. Water off a duck’s back.

  44. Questions Questions May 28, 2022

    Did Whitney Bilyeu die? That rumor is swirling.

  45. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 28, 2022

    Joshua Smith finally won the vice-chair contest after it got down to him and NOTA. 66% for Smith.

  46. Jared Jared May 28, 2022

    I hope they all joined hands in prayer and thanked the spirit of Murray N. Rothbard for today’s caucus victories. Where on the agenda is Dave Smith’s coronation?

  47. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | May 28, 2022

    Whitney Bilyeu is alive if not well,
    i have confirmed from a close friend.

  48. Bob Bob May 28, 2022

    Honestly, I’m kind of relieved by the solid Mises PAC takeover of the party. After seeing the complete takeover almost complete, I feel vindicated for leaving the party years ago when no one wanted to address the proto-Mises cancer growing in a few state affiliates. Most of the people crying the loudest right now, not understanding how they got here, literally helped and covered up this problem for years. “Oh, well, I didn’t know!” More like they didn’t care and tried to hide it. How much has the LNC paid racist child-grooming grifters like Tom Woods over the years?

    As the party abandons civil liberty items (abortion and immigration rights) and adopts far-right culture war mantras and conspiracy theories, the libertarian party will hopefully better server to split the crazy far-right vote. Hopefully that will help Republicans lose some elections.

    For those who have in good faith been long fighting the good fight. My condolences for your lost time and money.

  49. Andy Andy May 29, 2022

    Bob, you must mean the Soviet Poverty Lie Center.

  50. robert capozzi robert capozzi May 29, 2022

    I’d be interested to hear how Justin Amash is responding to this MC takeover. Anyone know?

  51. Bob Bob May 29, 2022

    So hilariously enough, the convention violated the bylaws and due process, and through a simple point of order declared that pink-haired lady with a history of sending unsolicited pictures of her chest was never actually removed from the LNC, because despite the excessive time spent on due process and subsequent LNC and JC rulings (as defined by the bylaws), she supposedly wasn’t afforded due process.

  52. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 29, 2022

    Bob,

    Interesting you should bring that up.

    The convention body overturned the ruling of the chair that it is bound by the bylaws.

    Convention bodies are bound by their organizations’ bylaws.

    QED, the convention body declared en masse that it is no longer the convention body, de facto adjourning the convention at that point, and making all subsequent motions, votes, etc. void since the convention is over.

  53. NewFederalist NewFederalist May 29, 2022

    robert capozzi- go over to BAN. Richard has a link to a Reason Magazine article that might shed some light on your question.

  54. George Phillies George Phillies May 29, 2022

    For the confused, early in the meeting Brodie Ellwood asked for a parliamentary ruling that the removal of Caryn Harlos as Secretary was invalid and should be voided. After some parliamentarian stuff, the convention chair ruled that the motion was out of order, making this ruling so that so that the body could vote on the issue. A majority voted to overturn the chair’s ruling. Caryn Harlos was restored as LNC Secretary.

  55. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 29, 2022

    George,

    The REASON for the ruling, which no one disputed, is that under the bylaws the LNC and Judicial Committee have plenary power between conventions and therefore the convention cannot undo the acts of those bodies.

    By overturning the ruling of the chair, the body declared that it is not bound by the bylaws.

    And if it’s not bound by the bylaws, it’s no longer a convention body. It’s just a mob.

  56. Bob Bob May 29, 2022

    Thomas,

    I don’t think they had the authority to do what they did the way they did, and it was merely symbolic in nature, making the action moot. At least that’s what the lawyers will likely argue in the event of lawsuits regarding actions taken by the LNC since the removal of the Secretary without integrity.

  57. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 29, 2022

    There’s usually less actual litigation than threats of same.

    If there’s litigation, my guess is it would consist of the LNC attempting to protect its fraudulent trademark claim against any affiliates that dis-affiliate or are dis-affiliated.

  58. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | May 29, 2022

    Tom,

    That sort of argument will not go anyplace. Besides, the officers and at-larges will generate exactly the same results as the election did.

    George

  59. Jared Jared May 29, 2022

    I’d be interested to hear Moulton’s take, a lawyer and JC member, as this symbolic vote is intended to nullify the LNC and JC decisions.

    The crowd that denounces democracy as lawless mob rule sure is acting “democratic” by their own definition.

  60. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | May 29, 2022

    The convention has apparently elected a JC.

    The convention voted 512-268, a simple majority being required, to repeal the abortion plank.

    Nick Sarwark ws apparently assaulted on the convention floor.

  61. Bob Bob May 29, 2022

    Nick Sarwark has been the lead Jewish boogeyman of the Mises PAC and other associated Libertarian antisemites for some time now. I’m honestly surprised this is the first time he’s been assaulted at a convention with the way things have devolved. I do hope he’s okay.

  62. Ron Paul Caesar Ron Paul Caesar May 29, 2022

    Have they removed the idiot who wears a boot on his head?

  63. George Phillies George Phillies Post author | May 29, 2022

    Someone could have appealed the convention action to the Judicial Committee, but they do not seem to have done so.

  64. Bob Bob May 29, 2022

    Unfortunately, the video appears to be at a bad angle, but it still looks entirely credible that Nick was trying to run by and got a shoulder slammed into him. He was visibly knocked off balance and heard saying “Ow!” looked confused, then shouted at the assailant.

    Seeing the scene from a different angle would probably still be better, but it seems like Nick was being harassed the entire convention. I think more of the video than just that small clip might provide additional context. But an escalation like this is not surprising, especially since Nick has been a big target for harassment from antisemites (on various “Jewish politician” lists and whatnot) since before he was even LNC chair.

    Since the current Libertarian Party no longer condemns bigotry as irrational and repugnant, and he appears to be getting assaulted, maybe the party Nick was born into is no longer the party for him.

    I’m a little surprised they would feel the need to remove the anti-bigotry sentence, when they simply deny that all the bigots they like are bigots. To quote the new LNC chair, Angela McArdle, “I don’t actually think that someone who’s trying to be a truth-seeker and understand what’s going on – and asked the question about whether or not Jews run Hollywood, is an antisemite.”

  65. Nathan Norman Nathan Norman May 30, 2022

    I wonder if “Bob” is actually Nick. Only an extremely biased viewer would draw such a ridiculous conclusion from a clear cut video.

  66. Jose C Jose C May 30, 2022

    It looks to me Nick was assaulted. How sad. What are we the 2022 Academy Awards? Nick plays the roll of Chris Rock.

  67. Bob Bob May 30, 2022

    Thanks for showing me that beautiful delusional paranoia that I’ve come to expect from the far-right!

  68. Ralph Ralph May 30, 2022

    Was Sarwark a soccer player at one point? That’s how bad his acting is. He obviously faked it to get more attention.

    Unauthorized recording? Doesn’t sound very libertarian to me.

  69. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 31, 2022

    The video isn’t at a very good angle for telling what happened.

    But if Nick says the guy threw a shoulder into him, the guy threw a shoulder into him.

    Why? Not just because Nick is honest, but because he’s competent.

    If Nick was going to fake up video of an assault, that video would be totally convincing absent some kind of forensic analysis to e.g. prove a deepfake.

  70. Thomas L. Knapp Thomas L. Knapp May 31, 2022

    Ralph,

    Unauthorized recording is the very essence of libertarianism. Why would anyone need anyone else’s permission to shoot video, especially in a public venue where they’re not trespassing? Your ability to block photons and vibrate the air with sound imposes no obligation on me to avoid capturing a record of that blockage and those vibrations.

  71. Ralph Ralph May 31, 2022

    Nick Sarwark honest? Knapp is either a comedian or a liar. Sarwark is one of the most dishonest people in the party. It’s so obvious he faked the assault. Watch the video in slow motion.

    Sarwark was the one complaining about the recording because he was caught faking it.

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