Posted at Next Free Voice
Exchange between me (Paulie Cannoli) and Dave Schwab originally started at GreenChange.
Subject: Libertarian Greens?
Hi Paulie,
I just read the commentary you posted about the Libertarian Party turning into a free-market conservative vehicle. Very interesting. I’ve noticed that you post both Green and Libertarian related articles – do you belong to both?
Continue reading at http://pauliecannoli.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/green-libertarian-exchange
Want to make the GP better? Become a free market environmentalist. Drop the socialism.
Paulie is just an anarcho-syndicalist that hates me for having differing views.
greenferret,
LJ is a troll. If you are interested in a serious and/or non-hostile discussion of how libertarian and green ideas can mesh, ignore him. I’m interested in a real discussion of these ideas, which is laid out in more detail at
http://pauliecannoli.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/green-libertarian-exchange
and even more if you read the links included therein.
I don’t understand the hostility, Joseph. I’m right here – if you want to argue with a Green, you don’t have to use a sockpuppet.
The hostility I see from some Libertarians (not to mention Democrats) used to surprise me. Now I’ve started to think that people merely mimic the behavior they’re accustomed to seeing. Republicans and Democrats pay lip service to democracy, while all their actions are aimed at consolidating their own power and locking out others. In recent years, Republicans have stolen a number of elections from Democrats. However, instead of taking on the Repubs or pushing for election reform, the Dems have taken to trying to stomp out the Greens, with nary an attempt at election reform to be seen (unless forced by smaller parties).
Faced with two-party collaboration against them, the smaller parties would seem to benefit from cooperating against the anti-democratic laws that keep us down. If deep down, we all believe that all we need to succeed is to present our case to our fellow citizens, then why fight each other for scraps from the corporate party’s table?
@5 I don’t think France is a country. Either.
Joseph, that dialogue could just as easily replace the greens with the Catholic Trotskyists, though we use religion and antiwar feeling and loyalty to Obama instead of environmentalism.
G: that is why we chose to use environmentalism as our vehicle for this. We use many vehicles, this is one..
L: let the people be free
G: no, we must continue with our diabolical plans to make socialism not only VOLUNTARY but also so ingrained in the fabric of humanity that it will be human nature. Albeit it isnt like that now, we are har at work to make sure the free markets dies under the rise of public education institutions and regulations that smash any hope of private enterprise. Drown the bourgeois!
G = GREEN
L = LIBERTARIAN
the exchange
G: Socialism is good
L: why? ever check out Cuba?
G: they have better healthcare
L: then, why does everyone want to come to the US for healthcare? Why not Cuba? Want sources? Look, I’m not going to defend the cronyism in our healthcare industry, but you can’t ignore the fact that Cuba has horrible quality healthcare.
G: you get what you pay for
L: why can’t people be private doctors? why can’t charities offer free healthcare services?
G: because things need to be cordinated through a centrally planned body for maximum benefits to the proletarian class. people may starve to death, but it’s the only way to teach people that SHARING IS CARING
L: fuck you
G: don’t worry, we will be victorious